Notorious Biphobe Talks Another Guy Into Identifying as Bisexual



I think you've more than made up for your earlier faux pas on the bisexuals Dan.


not for nuthin but "...I don’t agree with such black and white definitions of sexuality,..."

and yet needs to "pick a side"

HUHHHH? can anyone reconcile this (contradiction) for me??


Ahhhh, to be young and insanely confused about who you are. Those were the days... the really, really bad days. Good luck L-dub! Learning and accepting who you are is hard.


"...and that was the day Dan Savage became known as The Notorious BIP."


You don't have to pick a side and you don't have to label yourself.


I think his point about black and white is that a man who is topping a man is also gay (or bi). There are cultures that can't see this, but it's pretty obviously true.


Honestly just thank you both (Dan and OP). I think a lot of people feel this way. And from one bisexiual to other - fuck the rules!


Vab @ 6 - "a man who is topping a man is also gay (or bi)"

No they're not! They're only doing it as a favour to the gay guy and they'd much rather be fucking a woman's ass (if only they could find a woman with a hairy ass, a dick and no breasts, and who they can talk about football with afterwards - because, you know, they're real men).


Hey there LW. Being bi is a thing. It's fine. You're fine. You got this. :)


Is this a reprint from 20 years ago? 'cause LW sure sounds behind the times!


"Growing up in a blue collar neighborhood, it was always sort of a given that if a man was the bottom while having sex with another guy then he was obviously gay."

I'm glad I didn't grow up in that neighbourhood. It sounds very confusing.


@2 - It's always hard when you believe something in the abstract, and then have to actually apply it to your own life.

I try to imagine, for example, a girl/young woman who grows up unswerving conviction that abortion is a right and no woman who has one should need to feel guilty or ashamed... and then at some point she needs an abortion. She still believes it's a right and nothing to feel guilt or shame about, but somehow it's more complicated now.

So even after a lifetime (albeit not a very long one yet) of believing that people should be free to be whoever they are and resist labels...

@10 - that's not very nice. But then again, maybe a splash of cold water is just what's needed?


OV, I am wondering if you have a sense why, to date, you have only bottomed for men. It seems from your letter that you have set up a dichotomy in your sexuality in which you penetrate women during sex or are penetrated by men during sex. Sexual preferences are hard to explain, but if you are able to get out of your comfort zone and allow yourself to bottom for women and top men, you might find it changes your perspective and allows you to better integrate these two halves of your sexuality.

Separately, the timeline of OV's sexual experiences is a bit confusing, but it seems that OV had sex with only women in high school and college, and then post-college went through a period of having sex with only men, but all those experiences seem to be at least a few years ago, and at no time does OV mention any relationships. OV, if your confusion is holding you back from meeting new sex partners or having relationships, get some therapy to help you through this issue.


Was this Dan's bi one get one President's Day deal? I'll see myself out, thanks.


Fubar @11: One assumes that he's "Blue Collar" but somewhere in the Desi (india/pakistan/bangladesh) or Middle East area - they tend to believe things like that.


Delta @10: I know, right? How is it possible that in 2019, someone doesn't know that bisexuality exists? There are gay bottoms, and there are gay tops, and you, OV, are neither. You're bi, or if you really want to be modern, pansexual. Identifying as bi IS picking a "side," if that's your stumbling block.

Sublime @13: Indeed, he can top men and he can bottom to women. The great thing about being bi is the world of possibilities!

Traffic @15: Good point that this young man may not be from the US.


@4 excellent! Funniest comment so far.


An Unfrozen Award to Mr Savage, who seems to be unable to let anything go lately. If the headline was intended as a bit of exculpatory sass, I don't think it works completely, given how many notorious homophobes are only too eager to get a great many people and non-people identified as the big H.


@10 delta35
Yeah I had to double check it wasn't a reprint. It's like OV never heard of bi (until message #3). Apparently bisexuality needs a Super Bowl ad or something.


Ms Fan - I can visualize you being part of the panel of experts on a quiz show called "Bi or Pan?".


My background would be pink-collar, not even white-collar ... but I've struggled with the same question too: Can I be bisexual if I'm a gay bottom? The answer is 'of course'. There was a pressure to be vers in the gay circles in which I moved; and, with experience, I of course topped (only rarely with confidence), and (in a diffrrent context) bottomed with women. Topping women, oddly, was one of the last remaining items on the bucket list.

Good luck to the LW! Your public identity can be as you choose--straight, gay or bi. As fir the sex, it's all good!


@10. delta. My father told me that my fucking i.e. topping men didn't mean I was gay. This was someone in the top 2% of wealth and cultural sophistication. Of course, this was at a time when I was just starting to have men top me....

True, it was the 80s.


@13. Sublime. Maybe OV wants to have sex with a woman but is holding himself back because he believes that his gay bottoming makes him gay? In which case ... yes, all being well, why not go for it?


Why not simply use the purely descriptive and neutral term MSM and stop scratching at it? But then we would have nothing to worry ourselves to death over and process, would we?

Just because we tell certain stories and use certain labels now and here doesn't mean they are necessarily set in stone. I am sure the next generation will push back against labels that Generation X has been using for purposes of liberation and that many younger people already see as repressive. Such is life.


Another LW wondering how to apply a label to their life. Why do you need it? If you once fucked a goat at a petting zoo, does that mean you need to carry a life-long goatfucker label? Maybe a bumper sticker or a little goat lapel pin so all the other goatfuckers can identify you at a glance? Shouldn't the secret goat club handshake be enough?


Oi Vey for real.


Fuck you for this violence, Dan. The Stranger is not a safe space for those who don't neatly fit into the gender binary, you fucking Nazi.


This identity confusion is also a thing in the trans/”crosdressers” community, both among club members as well as observers.


@27 Huh?


@27 Pot. Kettle. Black?


Sportlandia @27,
OV is questioning his sexual orientation, not his gender.


@30 MartyVega
I could be wrong but I think Sportlandia might have been making a joke, but

@29 Dartmouth
...I think "gender binary" might not have been the exact phrase he was thinking of (since it's not as central thing to this topic as one would expect to see in a joke).


"Get to work on accepting yourself as bisexual, because that's what you clearly are."
To go on, how do your experiences influence what you will want in the future? Woman or man? Open relationship, both? or can you learn to bottom for a woman or top a man and be satisfied by one person? The reason it's a good idea to tell people you are bi, is that they will understand you don't want a pure straight or pure gay relationship, you are attracted to both genders. Labels are a tool.. Make it work for you or reject it for one that fits better!


@33 Philophile...welcome back!


His local community's definitions of bottom/top roles remind me of Greco-Roman views of sexuality. Sex with women for procreation, topping boy slaves for pleasure , etc


Cocky @24: Because this M also has sex with Ws.

Donny @25: The "why do you need labels" attitude is an extremely het-privileged one. Straights don't need labels because they have never been confused about who they are and what they want. Queer people struggle to understand their desires, and labels help. Sure, the wrong one can be reductive and confuse things further, but the right one can make the difference between thinking you're fucked up and something is wrong with you and thinking that you are completely normal and what's more, have a community. I cannot understate how helpful it was for me to discover the "bisexual" label.

Also, I know you were joking but comparing queerness to bestiality is offensive in the extreme. Almost as offensive as Sporty's "joke," and equally unfunny.

Philo @33: Agreed, this is another reason labels are useful. When he meets potential longer-term partners, of either gender, they will want to know which "side" he is on. He can weed out the wrong partners by being proudly bisexual.


@15 I was also thinking LW might be outside of US or from a minority culture, but the Oy Vey is a USA-yiddish expression common in NYC. While a minority, even ultra Orthodox 20-somethings in NYC have surely have heard of bi circa 2019? Didn't 20-something millenials and Gen-Zs make heteroflexible and homoflexible a thing, and you do you / no labels?


M?? Harriet - The (Gentile) Country Club Set may have more Cleopatras of any age or gender than any other group of people, though I've perhaps encountered a few who might give them a run for their money.


@15 @37

I think it is a US thing, too. Maybe not necessarily spoken of in civilian life, but isn't this the thinking in prison?

Also, I think in Latin American cultures, too.


@BiDanFan, MSM as used in the literature includes men who also have sex with W. It's meant to be a purely behavioral description used precisely because many MSM don't identify with specific sexual identity labels, or object to their imposition.