The mere fact of the debate itself serves to legitimize Peterson as a Serious Thinker:
Good Afternoon Charles,
Hmm? Your reaction to a planned debate between Zizek & Peterson seems odd. "Nothing Is a Greater Waste of Time Than the Planned Debate Between Jordan Peterson and Slavoj Zizek"?
I'm dubious that all viewers and listeners would necessarily find this event a "waste of time". Open debate between equals (or non-equals for that matter if sustainable) is a crucible in a democratic republic. I think it should be encouraged and be civil. I see nothing wrong in it. On other had, I don't read either Peterson or Zizek so it probably wouldn't interest me.
Peterson is such a lame man who all the other lame men follow. He is to intelligent debate what Kim Kardasian is to feminism. Ignore him.
Peterson is soooo early 2018 - haven't Incels found a new flavor-of-the-month to blindly follow yet?
The writer of this article seems extremely biased.
“As for Peterson, there is nothing in what he says or writes that can be recovered and meaningfully applied to the actual human world”. Except for all the ways in which what Peterson has said and written has been meaningfully applied in the lives of the many people whose lives he’s helped change for the better through his work.
“Even his thoughts on cultural Marxism, whatever that is or means, are of no value whatsoever. It's not serious thinking.”
Marxism or communism, as postulated in the communist manifesto, views the world and history as one based on class struggles and an oppressed/oppressor narrative. This need for a rising of the working class, the revolution of the proletariat, was at the basis of the Soviet Union, the Khmer Rouge etc. which ended in the deaths of millions and millions of people.
To get to a communist society utopia, the transitionary stage is a dictatorship. This is the philosophy and it doesn’t work! Unless by “work” you want the death of millions of people.
What Jordan Peterson says about this is illuminating, and shows up the flaws in this philosophy which seems to be currently seeping into various aspects of our culture and society today.
It's when the state takes over the means of production that things begin to fall apart and all hell breaks loose. It sets the stage for someone like Mao or Stalin or Pol Pot to take power. That's what the never ending supply of tyrants and their henchman do. Ask a lobster. Peterson argues that free markets, higher taxes, and well funded social services make for a far healthier society than what the author and his followers envision, which conjures up gulags whenever I read something like this.
"Karl Marx's and Friedrich Engels work of youthful poetry, The Communist Manifesto."
A work of "youthful poetry" complicit in more than 94 million deaths through executions, man-made hunger, famine, war, deportations and forced labor including:
65 million in the People's Republic of China
20 million in the Soviet Union
2 million in Cambodia
2 million in North Korea
1.7 million in Ethiopia
1.5 million in Afghanistan
1 million in the Eastern Bloc
1 million in Vietnam
150,000 in Latin America
10,000 deaths resulting from actions of the international Communist movement and Communist parties not in power
A work of "youthful poetry" complicit in countless crimes against humanity including, but not limited to, in the Soviet Union alone:
The execution of tens of thousands of hostages and prisoners
The murder of hundreds of thousands of rebellious workers and peasants from 1918 to 1922
The Russian famine of 1921, which caused the death of 5 million people
The Decossackization, a policy of systematic repression against the Don Cossacks between 1917 and 1933
The murder of tens of thousands in concentration camps in the period between 1918 and 1930
The Great Purge which killed almost 690,000 people
The deportation of 2 million so-called "kulaks" from 1930 to 1932
The death of 4 million Ukrainians (Holodomor) and 2 million others during the famine of 1932 and 1933
The deportations of Poles, Ukrainians, Moldovans and people from the Baltic states from 1939 to 1941 and from 1944 to 1945
The deportation of the Volga Germans in 1941
The deportation of the Crimean Tatars in 1943
Operation Lentil and deportation of the Ingush in 1944
Not bad for a bit of "youthful poetry."
Marxism is no more philosophy than Typhus is philosophy.
It's simply a disease that becomes a deadly epidemic if allowed to spread.
I remember when liberals used to have bumper stickers that proclaimed 'Minds are like parachutes; they work best when they're open.' The headline and content of this article is yet another leftist fleck on the now massive pile of evidence of how close minded the Modern American Left has become to history and reasoned debate.
This article is nothing but a biased, bloated bunch of drivel with an inflammatory headline to get clicks.
No need for an open discussion by two intellectual heavyweights, folks! This clown just settled the issue for us! Give me a break.
"Nothing is a Greater Waste of Time Than Reading Charles MyDude Articles On Obscure Internet "News" Sites".
There we go, seems much more accurate now. A crap article needs a crap title after all! All whilst taking a crap.. how ironic.
Anywho, having the ability to debate clashing ideologies is exactly what makes free speech great. It's why you can post crap articles and I can inversely call it out on it's crappiness. And I struggle to grasp how you can name something a waste of time in advance when you are not required to observe it. If you deem it a waste of time then spend your time elsewhere. Pretty simple concept MyDude.
It's ironic that Communists don't believe in the concept of personal property, given that Zizek will be owned.
Has Charles never listened to a Joe Rogan podcast? Much, much bigger waste of time.
I find much of what Jordan Peterson says to be very relevant to my life, actually. I am excited for the debate. This article is stupid.
Wrong! Reading an article about how the debate is the greatest waste of time, then reading the comments, then comment is the greatest waste of time!
Over half of the comments in support of Petershit came from prop accounts (currently standing at 7)
I found Peterson interesting for a while. Found him relatable and exciting, even though he seemed a bit morose. He was a good stepping stone into the intellectual world. Unfortunately, this intellectual world is filled with pompous wretches, like many of those who commented on and wrote this article. Stay humble my friends, it's hard to look down on others while your head is up your ass.
I thought The Stranger was when you sit on your hand until it goes numb and then jerk off with it.
Is that what this is?
it’s bananas how the mere mention of his name is enough to summon the hordes
I needed some Mudede to end the day--and was not disappointed. Thanks Charles.
Value is a subjective, ordinal ranking of goods based on preference. Market value is the equilibrium of the personal value judgements of the buyers and the sellers. No messy thinkers or Marxist priests needed.
When the Stranger was forced to stop sex trafficking ads in it's back pages it lost all it's money, and thus it's value.
I have no love of Jordan Peterson, but please, this article is so pretentious. Both Peterson and Zizek have messages that resonate deeply with many people. Just because you believe that Zizek's philosophies alone align with more traditional, coherent lines of thought doesn't change this fact. We should be celebrating events that bring together people who usually hate each other - I guess in this case academic Marxists and mostly disaffected young white men? (generalization obvs) to come together, hear the basis of each other's points of view, and maybe even find common ground to the point where they can emphathize a little with each other's viewpoints.
You can tell when ideologs are loosing a debate as they resort to attacking the other person, rather than their ideas, or attributing thoughts to the opposing person that are not beliefs of that person. .... You can tell when ideolog know they are going to loose a debate IN ADVANCE, when they start doing this in advance of the debate, and/or start telling people that there's "nothing to learn here", "this is a waste of your time"..... I didn't know about this, but I'll be sure to catch it now !!
Seriously though, is there a central dispatch for peterson’s flying monkeys or is this the work of one sad and desperate person?
Definitely one sad and desperate person. I'd bet on our resident sad and desperate troll with 76,000 fake accounts and a nothing but free time.
For those not familiar with The Stranger, they are not some random online newspaper. They have been supplying Seattle's growing homeless with a free supply of low quality toilet paper for decades.
this is what i don't get. "Those who worship Peterson..." is among the first lines in this article. as if anyone that ever listened to the man joined some cult and follows his every word. I find a lot of what Mr. Peterson says quite interesting, he is a bit of broken record at this point but he is not even an arch capitalist, he freely admits that Canada's more socialist health care is better than the USA's.
Is this a legitimate debate, or just another one of those mutual relevance/credentials boosts like when a rising pop star does a duet with Dolly or Frank?
Me, I'll prefer to skim the transcripts. Peterson has that unpleasant speech inflection of so many Canadians and Northern Midwesterners who come off as both monumentally smug and abysmally whiny at once. Zizek of course suffers from that lateral lisp that should dissuade anyone from sitting too far in the front.
The person who wrote the article is in an idiot. He probably believes in the Black Lives Matter Movement. Stop downplaying, being biased, and be a journalist. Plain and simple STOP MAKING EXCUSES AND PICK UP YOUR SUFFERING TO LESSEN IT.
By the way... I’m not left wing I’m not right wing... I’m the middle finger.
Boy, The Broflake Butthurt Brigade really got triggered on this one!
If long dead enlightenment thinkers like Karl Marx are to blame for the violent excesses of the Dictatorships over 35 years after his death then it's rational to conclude Adam Smith is to blame for the violent excesses of the Capitalist States. We may as well blame Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche and Richard Wagner for Nazism while were at it. Makes about as much sense.
Gee. How do we hold those guys accountable? I guess we dig them up and kick around their bones.
Frankly I blame Alfred Nobel for most of it.
I have long anticipated a debate between Charles Mudede and Slavoj Zizek, though I'm concerned it may result in a resonance cascade failure, leading to a tear in space and time.
Peterson is a total waste of time, though.
Damn how many neomarxist retards can you fit in one website?
Petersen is perfect for the times. He's the Alt-right Paleo Philosopher who lifts just enough of greater writers self help cliche's to sound plausible but not too many so that his inner-crank always surfaces to keep his name churning through the in-joke email chains of liberal academia.
I mean the dude brags that he eats ONLY beef and water. What better metaphors do you NEED? The bold machismo blocking the colon of the dunder=headed MAGA generation with a little added scurvy to keep their gnashing gums bleeding. It's symmetrical and beautiful in it's perfect crank-ishness.
what's the point of doing this in meatspace? This is why Twitter was invented. What's wrong with these guys? What's next, dueling pistols?
It's funny, I use to be a communist living in Seattle, too. It was fucking miserable. I would recommend you take Jordan's advice and stop lying, especially to yourself.
Governments will never act in your best interest, they are run by people who fetishisticly crave power over you, they won't solve your problems, only you can. Take personal responsibility for the ruin of the world and make yourself into a good and competent person who might carve themselves a little circle of heaven in this hell of existence. Then you can move out of the city, past the Cascades, and then start a family and get a real career.
What???? A Marxist is turned off by Jordan Peterson????? Shocking! Good thing there internet is here to allow any imbecile to share their thoughts.
wow this was dismally biased right from the start. And referring to Peterson as a "hack" is just laughable to say the least. He may be the most credentialed, cited, and practiced clinician in his field, perhaps of all time!
Oh my god these Peterson fans and their attempts at being clever.
37: He is not alt-right, also he has an autoimmune disorder that was resolved by his diet. We all have canines and bicuspids for a reason.
It doesnt seem like the author of this article is very educated on the ACTUAL theories and teachings of Jordan Peterson. Just the rhetoric. This is the sad norm in our modern "this is what the cool kids think" popularity driven society. Read 12 rules, or maps of meaning, and you would NEVER accuse him of being alt-right. This is so ignorant and emblematic of "new speak" journalism ( which is an insult to actual journalism).
I had this acquaintance at college who would slam just about anything and everything from the pop culture of the late eighties, early nineties. He seemed really interesting at first with his pithy and biting commentary. Opinions and critiques on everything; Nirvana, Goodfellas, Lollapalooza, Chapel Hill, Minneapolis, Slacker, etc... Slowly but surely you eventually came to the conclusion he realized he was insignificant and it bothered him to no end. It was his way of trying to soothe his ego by lashing out on anything interesting. Kinda sad really.
Your so far up your own ass it's comical
This article is a sheer projection of an ignorant person's ugly effort to sound wise.
Pitiful article by a pitiful communist/mass-murderer wannabe
Of course Peterson is a serious thinker. The author knows he is a serious threat to his buddy Karl's preferred way of doing things and so he has to try and detract from lay people taking Peterson seriously.
Really Comte? You honestly think Peterson's readers/listeners are incels? I've found that it is the cuck types who generally talk about Peterson's readers as incels because incels can't procreate, whereas cucks at least have a minute chance if they can get pity from a woman and so they see themselves as superior to incels, the only group they are superior to.
Its actual men who listen to Peterson and defend him because we don't stand for people like yourself trying to slander him out of resentment and jealousy. I'm a married man, not an incel.
Try to imagine a conservative publication discouraging debate, calling it a waste of time. It would never happen. Maybe the left's ideas just aren't that good.
I'm shocked by the blatant hostility and bias in this article. I'm familiar with the work of both Peterson and Zizek, and am looking forward to this discussion. We should be encouraging the open exchange of ideas across the board, instead of calling such exchanges a stupid waste of time, and using slander to discourage people from being exposed to ideas the author disagrees with. It is also apparent that author doesn't understand Zizek's philosophy, or anything to do with Peterson. Furthermore, it is rather cheap to make fun of someone's autoimmune disease. It's rather embarrassing to allow the long form equivalent of a Twitter rant to be published as a serious critique, but I guess anything goes to attract readers nowadays.
low iq article. dunning-kruger at work. gonna hafta be a yikes from me, dawg
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