He doesn't want the girls to know he is whoring around.
Marry him and make an honest man out of him.

Hold waaay off on that move in. Like, a year after he's no longer refusing to have sex with you if the kids are in the house.

Also, why not buy a new bed that doesn't squeak? Seems to me that if he was serious about making room for you in his life, he'd be fixing the squeaky bed and any other impediments to you two having a proper conjugal relationship.

Couple other thoughts:
1) Growing up my parents managed to hide ALL the sex they were having so it can be done. That's not to say that's what you and him should do, only to bring it up as a possibility that he might have grown up under similar circumstances and considers that normal
2) See if you can't tighten up some nuts and bolts to prevent the bed from squeaking. Or heck, maybe the bed is old enough that you could consider replacing it with a model that would be less prone to making noise
3) Worst case scenario, see if you and he can engineer times for his daughters to be out of the house. Drop them off at the movie theater with money for tickets and snacks, see if they can hang with nearby relatives. I'm not saying "kick them out," I'm saying work to set up times the daughters can get out for a while.

I reckon she should start being VERY VERY LOUD when he's going down on her.
And yeah, buy a new bed.

Once a week for 3 years. Truly, who can survivr?

A couple of years ago, I had some upstairs neighbors whose bed squeaked and made other sounds. It was super obvious that they were having sex. It was kind of humorous, but every time I heard it I wondered why they didn't just do it on the floor. So yeah, do it on the floor. Get a couple of yoga mats, throw down some pillows, and go at it.

Maybe he's an authoritarian/patriatchial parent who forbids his daughters from having sex in the house and doesn't want to be a hypocrite. If that's the case, maybe explaining that all he's actually doing is encouraging them to have sex in much riskier circumstances (if they actually are interested in sex in the first place), with people he's not meeting at all (he's more likely to meet his daughters' sex partners and be able to evaluate their characters, make sure they're not 30-year-old creeps, etc. if they're bringing them home rather than actively hiding them), could get him to lose both that rule and his attached worries about hypocrisy.

I find it really hard to cut loose when I know we have family members just on the other side of the wall. Right now, our current house is big enough that we are across the hall from them and I don't have that problem anymore, but back when they were literally in the next room, it was really hard for me to relax and not think about how they could hear us. Then - like a lot of things with sex- it became it's own issue, like I was anticipating not being able to relax and so I was not relaxed even when we started.

So alrighty, short of moving into a bigger house, here's all I can say. And I assume a lot of it is stuff you already tried:

Like your bf, I found it way easier to do quieter things that did not include PIV. Usually this could get me out of my head space enough that then I'd care a bit less about the sound. There's no reason you have to stay in the bed for PIV- use the floor, bend over the dresser, etc. Also troubleshoot your bed- you might be able to make it less squeaky (reinforce things, change the frame, etc) and you might find some positions that are less likely to make it squeak- in our case if we used the side of the bed. With luck, the more you play around, the less big deal it becomes if you do get caught up in it and start making noise. If not you might have to consider how you feel about the fact that your sex life will be different depending on the situation. When we'd get the house to ourselves, PIV in the bed is the last place we'd want to go for, but maybe for you two it will be opposite, ha ha. Alright the kids are gone, we can fuck loudly in our own bed!

Also want to say that he even if he realizes all that about the health of the relationship, it might not change how he feels. IN my own case, it wasn't that I had some rational worry about them hearing us, but rather just the thought that they could hear us made me think about them and there is nothing sexy about thinking about your family while you are fucking. Then I'd slip into that headspace every time there'd be a sound. This is nothing that being bent over the dresser didn't solve though, so maybe figure out how to be creative about the room and see how else you two can fuck without the old squeaker. Or get a different bed that doesn't squeak in the first place.

But I agree that if it's going to be a problem to you to mostly not have carefree PIV at night in bed when the kids are home, then you probably want to hold off on making the move.

Silent sex. Seriously. Suggest you do it completely silently. First it adds a constraint which totally makes it hot. Second, it is a step to deconditioning him.

Self-driving Ubers will be a thing soon and those will basically be rolling fuck shacks.

In the meantime, all you can do is set the house up to be a little more private—quiet mattress, lock on the door... try a few practices runs, bone like we used to bone when we were teenagers and our parents were home.

And not that you asked but a year seems really soon. To each their own.

@8 It's like being a teenager and fucking while your parents are upstairs sleeping. Was it ideal? No. Was it necessary and hot? Yes!

So the bed doesn't squeak when they're munching and stroking? Are they doing it right?

I get the guy's thinking. This isn't about the daughters thinking the couple is sex-less; it's about creating a situation where they don't hear the sex. Most reasonable people know that their parents have sex (or kids if the kids are old enough) and most reasonable people don't want to hear their parents having sex. But, as Dan suggested, there are a lot of places in a house or elsewhere where she can get what she wants.

Fuck on the rooftops.

@10... I was thinking being desperately horny on a road trip with a 1.5 year old asleep in a play pen beside the bed.

Get a tv in the bedroom. Buy a quieter bed frame...something sturdy. Tell girls that you all are going to watch cnn or boring grownup movie, while they watch twilight or whatever it is kids these days watch. Lock the bedroom door and turn up volume. Combination of quieter bed, distracted kids, loud bedroom tv volume....kids will not know. And fuck as much as possible when they are not home.

People too stupid to [pick one: fuck on the floor, fix a squeak, buy a new bed, better insulate their bedroom] shouldn’t be allowed to have offspring.

Kudos to the guy for sparing the chitlins his sex sounds. LW: “Fuck me in a way your kids can hear or I’m gone - Dan, tell him!!” She sounds like a real catch. I guess she likes sex. That’s nice. You know who else is always DTF and knows just how you like it? Mr. Hand.

@3 - “Your parents never had sex after you were born.”

— Your Dad

For sure don’t move in until this issue is resolved! The ability to work together and tackle relationship challenges is one of the prime indicators of whether said relationship will succeed. If you can’t work out a relatively “simple” logistical problem, I.e. how to fuck as much as you like (or at least as much as feasible given the fact that kids WILL be around the majority of the time), odds are you won’t be able to work out the 100 other issues that will come up when living together, sharing expenses, co-parenting, etc, etc.

I suggest tying noise dampening pillows to the side of the kids’ heads.

Sorry, Dan & everyone, but this isn't a simple noise issue that will be resolved by non-squeaky beds or fucking on floor futons. I'm afraid BF is hyper-freaked out overall by having sex while his daughters are under the same roof.
And @18, I totally agree, LW definitely should NOT move in 'til this is resolved.
LW might start by getting clear about whether BF felt this anxiety during his marriage (so it's about the kids being of an age to know that Daddy's having sex in general and he knows that THEY know)?
Or was that not an issue back then (in which case, Daddy is feeling anxious/guilty about the kids knowing he's having sex with someone to whom he's not married)?
I'm afraid neither answer will provide a quick "Aha!" fix to the problem (and it's a legit problem for LW), but it may get this new couple -- with the help of a sex-supportive, guilt-reducing therapist -- on the right track.

She shouldn't be moving in anyway; should she?

It seems more of a control issue than a sex issue; I rather hope they break up before she convinces him to disinherit his children in favour of hers. For anyone other than Ms Cute and Ms Ods, I shall point out that LW reminds me a little of the already prosperous Mrs John Dashwood, grudging her husband's impulse to augment the meagre income of his stepmother and half-sisters after he's just come into the large family estate.

Don’t move in with him LW, he’s being a dick. Fine he can have his weirdo story, you don’t have to join him in it.
His girls would be happy he’s a sexually satisfied man, it means he’s not watching them like a hawk.

There should be a rule that says that no comments may be longer than the original letter.

LW please leave this man alone. Or accept the price of admission.
He cares about your pleasure
He is being a good parent. He is being an adult and sheltering his children from the awkwardness of adult sexuality. The gift responsible adults give their children is to allow them to grow up with their own concerns, not “happy their father is having sex!” Give them the space to develop their own sexuality.
You are insecure in your role in his life and so want his girls to know you share his bed and have a special bond with him.
Grow up!
Can you remember being a teenager? Do you have any empathy with this man’s children?
Be an adult and

John @7: I had that thought too. My parents were incredibly prudish. This man's daughters are getting to the age where they will soon be sexual themselves, and having a model of a healthy sex life with a partner one loves and respects could be good for them.

I also saw a red flag in the description of the ex as a "train wreck." Is she really? How long ago did they split up, and why? Is he just bitter? That's not healthy for the children. Is she really "kicking them out" to have sex or is she sending them to the mall or movies, as Unknown @3 says? And how does WAGF know?

Eight months is too soon to be planning to blend two families, as noted, particularly with this red flag involved.

Christopher @8: Sex without coming would be worse for me than sex without PIV. Sorry.

Donny @18: You've nailed it. Was he this prudish about sex with his ex-wife? Had their sex life dried up anyway? Is he religious?

Another thought: Why are they only using his place as their love nest? Leaving a five-year-old with a sitter instead of leaving teenagers alone for a couple of hours? Does she live in a one-room shack, is that why she's so keen to move in with him? Lots of things smelling a bit fishy under the surface of this letter. WAGF, sounds like you are both in a rebound, fuck-buddy type relationship, which is fine, but you may want to keep it that way for a while for the sakes of everyone involved.

I generally abhor ultimatums, but this is a case where I think one is entirely appropriate. This is a psychological barrier he needs to get through, and if he needs a push, so be it. Let him decide on whatever sex-noise-reducing measures he wants to implement, but make him do that immediately: new bed, noise canceling devices, sound-proofing walls and doors. But don’t let this go on any longer.

Don’t parents go without sexual intimacy enough when their children are little they have to continue the torture till the kids leave the house?
This man needs to shake himself out of this bs. Children once they are into their young adulthood have no claims on the adults private lives. And knowing teenagers, they don’t want to know anything it.
If the rooms are all too close together, change them so the adults are furthest away. Close your door, don’t scream like hyenas, and the kids, if the adults are smooth with their intimate privacy, will be too.
Great this man cares for his children, yeah a decent father. He’s got a bit stuck somewhere and needs to relax.

Why is PIV noisier than cunnilingus? Is it that he's noisy? The bed would squeak in the latter case, too ... Yes?

I'm close to feeling that this is a serious problem about him fearing (at a certain level) that he's abandoning his daughters by having sex with her, and her wanting an integral commitment from him in which she sometimes takes precedence over his kids. I'm sympathetic to both of them. Well ... she has to lay her cards on the table in front of him. She wants it in the vag more than once a week... Say it, loud and clear; perhaps he isn't expecting it, hasn't been used to it. And go out on a limb, having sex in some uncomfortable, maybe un-ladylike places, to show you're serious about the frequency you want it. And--also--don't be possessive in exaggerating how loud you usually are getting fucked. His daughters could well view their father’s unextinguished sexuality (and their mother's) with ambivalence. Your own child could not have this ambivalence, not in the same way. There was no note of caring or solicitude for her partners' teens in the whole letter. But if he'd said something like, 'I'm worried my kids will be upset by the sounds of our fucking', I'd have advised her to be receptive and not dismissive, to listen to him.

@2 Traffic & @18 Donny. It needn't be such a huge deal. Just raise the issue. The LW needs to say it's important to her. Because it is--and legitimately so. Like, offer to go halves on a non-squeaking mattress. Her position is that fingers-and-tongue six days a week and PIV the once isn't sufficient PIV. First, this won't necessarily be slam-dunk obvious to someone who's been through a breakup; and second, it would be welcomed by most men. Gently ask him what his problem is. Was his own parents' sex-life kept from him? Are his daughters in the habit of needing his help at all hours? With good will on both sides, it would be surprising to me if there weren't workarounds...

The bedroom is the space for the adults’ intimacy. Kids have the rest of the house. Soon as that door is closed, the kids know it’s not their business time and the adults have to leave the children outside the door. Any emergencies, they will be heard.
This teaches kids how healthy adult relationships function, and serves as a model for their furture lives with lovers and kids.

@21. Venn. I think you mean '...expressly for Ms Ods and Ms Cute...'. ;)

@23. Marty. Many short posts invite lengthy exegesis, while some self-indulgently long letters ask for no more than a brisk response.

@26. Sublime. Why is this something HE needs to get through? Rather than three or four times as much PIV, as opposed to once a week for three years, being something she needs to learn to forgo? In the extreme case... If necessary... We do not know how his kids feel about their parents' breakup. They could be pleased that with a new partner, their father is off their case (one possibility). They could be happy that each of their parents has found someone better-suited, in every sense--including the sexual (another possibility). They could be resentful that their parents junked their happy menage, as they saw it, just as soon as the sex in their marriage ran out. We don't know which; and the LW should be respectful and sensitive if it's the last. She should do her best to understand his girls, at least. Whose view is the 'trainwreck' comment? Presumably his. How do they feel about her moving in? Has she asked them? I get the impression she's too deferential (to him) or self-doubting even to have done that....

LW, get him to watch that movie where Dustin Hoffman is married to Barbara Streisand, they are late middle aged rich hippies, having lots of sexy fun. Ben Stiller and Robert De Nero are in it as well.

Another perspective: LW, are you sure that the noise is the real motif here? How well have you two talked about shared sexual preferences? Couldn' it be that... he prefers having PIV just one time a week because he likes more the other thing you do instead? Or that he likes the power play of having you begging for PIV? Or maybe he finds it arousing to consider PIV in some way "prohibited", taboo, risky, dangerous?

M?? Harriet - No; had I been speaking only to Ms Cute and Ms Ods, I'd have just mentioned Mrs John Dashwood without any reference to the scene. It's one I always admired in Sense and Sensibility. Asked by his dying father to assist his stepmother and half-sisters, who will have only five hundred pounds a year between them, John Dashwood at first resolves to give his three sisters a thousand pounds each. His wife argues him down to five hundred each, to an annuity to his stepmother of a hundred a year, to occasional presents of fifty pounds, and finally to no financial support at all.

I'm a little on the boyfriend's side and think this is something that can and should be resolved from a stance of seeking solutions together as opposed to something adversarial. No ultimatums about refusing to move in. Just seek solutions. I do wonder what the custody agreement is. If the teen daughters are spending any time at all with their train wreck mother, then there's the once a week PIV sex right there.

Mostly I'm seeing a solution in a schedule. That's which days of the week the teens are at their mother's plus a regular bedtime for the adults. It's a given that you can't keep teenagers from staying up all night, but if the adults always go to bed at the same time every night, and if the teenagers know that the adults are not to be bothered after the moment their father and step-mother close their bedroom door each night, then that by itself might do a lot to help the boyfriend feel secure in not being disturbed as long as things proceed quietly.

It's far too soon for LW and boyfriend to be moving in together, given the difficulties of trying to blend families.

That being said, LW is in a power struggle with the teenage daughters; she needs to show that she is the "alpha woman" in the house by forcing dad to do something that makes him uncomfortable. This will not end well for anyone, but the problem will solve itself when they break up within six months of her moving in.

Everyone saying: “Oh, the kids are getting to an age where they should be okay listening to their dad have sex” or “they can put in ear buds” is wrong. We all know intellectually that our parents have sex. Emotionally, evolutionarily, we are all designed to avoid bringing sex into familial relationships - it is unpleasant to have it proven to us that our parents are having sex (especially: right at this very moment). LW’s boyfriend is being appropriately considerate to his kids. The fact that the LW doesn’t start there makes her sound trashy AF - it comes off like she wants the kids to be aware of what’s going on. The envious comparison to the ex smacks of immaturity as well. The fact that she thinks he is the problem, not the squeaky bed, is the real problem.

I'm a bit uncomfortable with this "just have sex in public spaces" thing. I know this is the only option some people have, or just a preference or a kink, and I know I'm in no position to demand the entire world help me out. But I also have some deep, deep trauma around sexual abuse and strangers having sex where I don't expect it. I once heard sex noises in a restaurant bathroom and I had to leave to have myself a little panic attack. I won't even mention the time I stumbled over a couple having sex where I seriously didn't expect it. I'm usually very good about managing my triggers (thanks, years of therapy!) but when it hits you out of nowhere in a place where it's the last thing on your mind, that's really rough. I'm sure it was a big thrill for those couples, very naughty, but, I dunno, the safety and comfort of strangers must count for something too, right? PTSD aside, doesn't the social contract allow people at large the safety of knowing we won't suddenly be confronted with hairy asses naked and thrusting while we're just trying to get our goddamn Starbucks?

So... I'm going to continue therapy and maybe y'all can keep the public fucking at a discreet minimum. Is this a deal I can make with, like, the world at large?

Ms Fan @25 - I had rather the same reaction as your conclusion. It could just be my own situation (I was regularly left in charge of my siblings from the age of eleven), but she seems highly insistent on the particular of doing it in his house, and likely under other circumstances that suit her. I'd imagine that your mind, under those circumstances, would jump to imaginative solutions, such as having his girls babysit her kindergartner at his home a couple of times a week for "dates" while the two of them make use of her home. But LW seems more invested in winning than in having her best time.

The assumption is that Boyfriend is afraid of his daughters hearing him have sex, and that may, indeed, be what he's said. That's probably what he's thinking too. My take on this, however, is that he has a problem, vague and unsure in his own mind, with having sex when he's in a position to think about his daughters even when they're not necessarily thinking about him. I know that's what it is with my boyfriend. He'll turn down sex when in his mother's house even if she's not at home. (We visit infrequently.) He'll turn down sex when his sister is in the next hotel room over. I find this moderately annoying and majorly amusing. He can't articulate his exact problem. He just finds it icky to think of sex when they're around, and I think, all told, that's a good thing.

The fact that they have not already considered using the floor, other furniture, reinforcing the bed, etc as several of us including Dan suggested makes me wonder what's up. But based on the LW's response, it seems she herself has not even suggested that. So who knows, might solve the problem.

A lot of commenters are assuming the guy must have some weird issue about sex or hiding it from from his kids, and perhaps he does. However I don't see what's weird that thoughts of your kids hearing you could kill your libido. It kills mine, dead. It's something pretty easy to work around (the floor, new bed, etc) but it doesn't mean you are sitting around nurturing some deep hang up about how your kids will react to the realization that their guardians fuck. It's just that thinking about the kids hearing you (and perhaps remembering all the times you've heard others fuck and imagining them in your place) is a turn off. When my nephew's bedroom was literally on the other side of my wall, I know he could hear us if we fucked in the bed. This is not paranoia- it's how sound works. He was literally less than ten feet away and the bed was loud. I'm not concerned that it had some traumatic effect on him. I just find it a massive libido killer to think of a child hearing me fuck. Most of us do not want to consider our family members as witness to our sexuality. And once you think of them at all, it takes you out of the moment. I can't believe there are so many people here pretending this isn't a thing. Now as I said, it's a problem that adults have been solving for thousands of years so what's weird about it is that the LW and bf haven't thought of all the work arounds, but there's nothing weird about not wanting your kids (or parents) to hear you fuck, and most of us realize you have to turn it down a bit when there are other people in earshot.

I mean those of you who think this must indicate he has hang ups about his daughters' sex life? Do you guys raise children? Do you have children in your life? Here's what I suggest. Next time you are fucking someone and it gets really pleasurable and loud, picture a child in your life every time you make a noise and see how long you stay horny. For some of us, that's what happens when we know a kid can hear us. I'm not worried that it is going to traumatize the child and I'm certianly not worried about the child's own sex life. I just don't like thinking of children hearing me fuck.

Sitters are expensive and hard to come by especially if you are just looking for a couple hours, and even if you can splurge on one once a week, this woman is looking for a more permanent and regular solution. There's nothing at all weird about her taking her toddler- who's not even in school yet- to stay over with him and his two teenage daugthers who no doubt have their own routines, school schedules, stuff in their rooms that they use regularly rather than him uprooting his two teens and forcing them to stay the night at her house where- what would they do? Sit around in the living room on their iphones? Go home at the crack of dawn to get ready before school? That's not how life with teens work- you can't just haul them around like you do toddlers. Unless you mean why don't they leave his teens at home alone in the evenings, which again is something they should probably do every once in a while to get away, but he's being a fucking responsible parent by being at home with his kids in the evening. Or he should make his teens watch his girlfriend's toddler in the evenings while he runs off to fuck his girlfriend? OMFG. I'm 100% sure that the people questioning this with "why can't they just act like people with no kids act" are people who themselves have no kids.

Oral sex does not usually include full body rhythmic moving, obviously so yes PIV is much louder especially if you have a bed that squeaks or bangs against the walls.

Let's not read more into this than is there. The problem is simply that they need to be told to experiment (get on the floor, bend over the dresser, take quickies when you can get them when the kids aren't around, plan an evening or two every month where you get away on your own, and yes the rest of the time you are going to have to accept a slight reduction in the amount of noisy PIV fucking you can do). The lack of imagination there indicates the problem could get worse as the relationship goes on, so hold off on moving in until it's solved. But the fact that he offers other ways to get her off every night indicates a willingness to work on the problem. So maybe this guy simply needs to be told, "throw a blanket down and fuck me on the floor".

I got my second kid by fucking while my first kid was asleep (I assume.. he hated naps). That's how it works. Next?

@41 I dunno, I mean - we're adults. We fuck in the bed. We didn't work all these years to buy a bed and mattress and pay rent only to have to fuck on the floor. I had a package misdelivered recently, and the shipper said "well, could you ask your neighbors or other people on your block if they got it?". I was like, Hell No. I didn't pay for this so you could give it to someone else and I could try to track it down. If that's how I feel about a package, I think it's reasonable to want to fuck in your bed.

That being said, if he's getting her off with his mouth/fingers most nights and they're fucking at least once a week in their mid-40s, check your privilege. You got it pretty good, and those kids will move out in not so long.

The baseline now is that she's only being fucked once a week or less. Yes other things too so that's good, but if she is unsatisfied with that, then she definitely should not move in with him. You usually have more sex in a new relationship than you do in an older one, so if she's unhappy with their baseline now, it will be worse as time goes on.

Privilege has nothing to do with this. Don't take your child and merge families if there's a good chance that something that seriously bothers you about the relationship is going to get worse. Since her kid is not yet five, she's got about 15 more years of this. I suggest they figure out a work around. If the bed really is that noisy, why the fuck not get one that isn't?

Harriet @28: "Why is PIV noisier than cunnilingus?" Because they are both making noise during PIV, and they may unconsciously be trying to drown each other out; because internal thrusting can inspire more and louder noises than clitoral stimulation, at least up to the point of orgasm; and because, yes, PIV involves a lot more bouncing up and down, and squeaking bedsprings, than oral sex, where one partner is mainly lying still while the other moves their head/tongue.

Harriet @19: I think a lot of us would think that PIV once a week and oral on multiple other occasions sounds like a dream come true. But they are still in the honeymoon/oxytocin/can't-keep-their-hands-off-each-other phase of their relationship. Which means that no, they shouldn't be making decisions about moving in together just yet! For once I agree with Tim Browne, the commenter who's always advising against shacking up.

Lava @32: Meet The Fockers. Dustin and Barbra were great in that!

Clementine @38: Good point, thank you for bringing it up. They could also get themselves arrested. WAGF, hotels exist, use them if you really really can't shag at home.

Venn @39: Thanks. The more I think about this letter, the less (hah) sympathetic I feel towards this LW. She a mother of a kindergartner, yet all she's thinking about is her vagina. Not only does she seem unable to prioritise her own child, she doesn't respect that her boyfriend is prioritising his. Run, Mr WAGF, before you have a second train wreck on your hands!

More kindly, it sounds like an incompatibility problem. An active sex life focused on PIV is her priority. It isn't his -- otherwise he'd have been more keen to find work-arounds. Take the hint before you make the shack-up mistake.

@31/Harriet: You have posited that her boyfriend is fearful because of his daughters’ feelings over their parent’s divorce. You have made this up. In any event, if his daughter’s resent their dad’s post-divorce sex life, then they need counseling. He doesn’t need to stop having PIV sex, which I think is an insane option.

My girls were teenagers when I met my current SO and until they were out of the house she never slept over on my custody days. Teenage girls (just saying “girls” ‘cause that’s what I’ve got) have more than enough going on in their heads without having to deal with parents’ divorce and dad’s new girlfriend, not to mention the “it’s ok for YOU to fuck whoever you want so I get to do it too!” argument that’s guaranteed to come up. Not that I’m discounting their own sexuality, but I WAS trying to teach them good judgement, and “use common sense, don’t flaunt your sexuality inappropriately” is one of the values I believe in. ALSO combining households after dating for less than a year seems like rushing a decision that will have major implications for the kids (adults too, though minus the kids it’s easier to move on if it doesn’t work out. Moot point, ‘cause “minus the kids” doesn’t apply here.

@34. Venn. Why is John Dashwood such a pushover?

@35. Fichu. A-ha! The voice of reason!

@45. Bi. So it's the sounds of the thrusting and of the bed moving. A ready answer: get an immovable bed and a mattress with no-squeak springs (like a sound-absorbing memory foam one). I can grant at once that she's entitled to want PIV more than once a week--but at the same time find it hard not to think that it's become a symbolic issue for her--'you can't spare me that much time? Or effort?' Or 'you think your kids care about the sound of your having sex that much?' To me her tone is wrong--her not 'intending' to give up more than once a week PIV for goodness knows how many years (about 4-5). She didn't say, 'I don't want my moving in to disrupt or destabilize his kids any more than he does, even in the short term'. (However, this may have been because she thought she had a sex, not a life, problem, and was writing to a sex specialist, not an all-purpose agony guy; or equally because she thought Dan's line was insisting on the satisfaction, within reason, of your own desires).

@41. Emma. Also the voice of reason. I think she's just embarrassed to bring this issue up. She asks for strategies for addressing the problem. Well--why not address the problem? Say 'I'm not leaving you over this, but having more than once-a-week PIV is important for me'.

@44. Emma. It's his kids hearing them he's bothered about, not necessarily her kid.

@47. Sublime. Well, before I made it up, someone said that his daughters would be glad that their father had a partner, because it would mean less helicopter parenting; and someone else said that they would or should be pleased to have a viable model of an adult sexual relationship and life-partnership. Then, I said, of many possibilities--two alternatives of which I acknowledged--that they may be resentful, or may blame the new partner for coming between their mother and father. And I'm the one making things up? I'm the one projecting what I was like at 15 onto his daughters--rather than carefully weighing different likelihoods, that might contribute to the way he's behaving around audibly fucking? No--I'm the one not projecting, but trying to enter into the situation. And it would not be true for you to say that no teenagers resent the 'next partners' of their divorced or separated parents.

There's no indication, further, that the LW's partner is sexually unhappy. He seems to like once-a-week PIV orgasms. It's her issue to bring up. They are having PIV (though many relationships / marriages of people in their 40s would be fine with not)--about once a week.

@48. Donny. I always used to say, 'well, I'm experienced at taking precautions not to get pregnant'.

Harriet @50: "Someone" mentioned helicopter parenting? Who? The only one mention I saw was yours. Again, please show your workings. Yes, you're the one making things up. You're frequently the one making things up. Own it.
"I'm the one not projecting, but trying to enter into the situation." THAT'S WHAT PROJECTING IS.

BDF @ 52
I think Hbtb is referring to Lava's comments on this thread.

My brother is a sound engineer and told me the best way to soundproof a bedroom is a sold core door (cheaper than a new house). Between that, fixing the bed, and possibly a gag maybe he can move forward. I understand his block, I have young kids so worry about them walking in when we are in a hard to explain position. So we save those for other rooms/places, like Dan suggested.

This woman wants to have a relationship with the man, an adult one. It’s not up to the kids to define how that goes, doesn’t matter what their ages are. Little kids come in and out of the parents’ bedroom for years, half the nights one or other of the kids are in the adults’ bed. That is enough.
How hard is it to be playing some music in your room at night, that will cover the noise, /usually such a loud noise too, right? / of a penis going into a vagina. Like hearing jackhammers isn’t it?

@53. CMD. Yes, of course I am. Thank you. Whenever I say 'someone', that's who I'm likely to mean--because an embargo has been laid on me picking up on what I might consider to be this poster's questionable judgments. Herewith the remark:

"His girls would be happy he’s a sexually satisfied man, it means he’s not watching them like a hawk".

I would suggest there is no warrant for this claim. No more than for saying,e.g., 'he knows that his kids blame the LW for the breakup of their parents' marriage, but he's keeping this from her and is just a bit shy about fucking audibly'. Something like the second might be closer to how I imagine a 15 and 13-yo girl could well respond to their father's new lover moving in; but I was very careful to make clear that we just didn't know, from her letter, how his daughters felt about this change in their lives. And their feelings are an issue--perhaps a more significant issue than whether she gets PIV more than once a week for the next 3-6 months or so.

@52. Bi. 'Entering into the spirit' of a situation is, for me, forming a hypothesis (acknowledging that it's a hypothesis) that fits the facts of the case. 'Projecting' is supposing that the people in a situation who match your socio-cultural descriptors (e.g. female, straight, middle-aged, conservatively-raised, monogamous, 'open-minded' etc.) hold the same views and priors as you.

I'll own my fantasies when you own your fervent FRA-ness ;)

You continue to be a stalker and an idiot Harriet. What do you know about being an adolescent girl? They are in their own little worlds by then, and if dad is giving gf a good lick..OMG.. sex is already going on when his daughters are in the house.

LW, perhaps it’s too soon to combine households. You’ve got a young child and he’s in some freak out mode about his teenage children. Pause this, and talk more.
I’d hold firm though re the sex part, you two will have enough to handle with these different age groups of children, you need to be on the same page re the bedroom.
You’ll be having lots of parent/ adult type discussions in there re kids, only fair you have adult type sex as well.

LW, "I'm going over there tonight and will suggest all of the above. Starting immediately."

That's the spirit. Other than that, you may need to work on his motivation. Stop the stroking and sucking when he won't give you PIV.

With enough motivation, he may buy a new bed, install a solid core door with weather stripping, replace the drywall with drywall hanging on resilient channel and or two layers of drywall with Green Glue between them, add Safe and Sound noise insulation between the wall studs, or do whatever else he needs to do to convince himself the kids can't hear. And his daughters will probably pretend they can't hear.

Problem solved, unless it isn't. If it isn't, you have bigger issues.

Do you know if he cheated on their mom? Maybe he has major guilt issues about having sex with women other than their mom because of some history like that. Or maybe he just really likes blowjobs and is kinda selfish. Figure it all out before you move in.

M?? Harriet - From the source:

"He was not an ill-disposed young man, unless to be rather cold-hearted, and rather selfish, is to be ill-disposed: but he was, in general, well-respected; for he conducted himself with propriety in the discharge of his ordinary duties. Had he married a more amiable woman, he might have been made still more respectable than he was; he might even have been made amiable himself; for he was very young when he married, and very fond of his wife. But Mrs John Dashwood was a strong caricature of himself; more narrow-minded and selfish."

That paragraph appears about halfway through Chapter One, and is followed by his decision to give his sisters a thousand pounds apiece. Chapter Two consists entirely of Fanny's establishing herself clearly as mistress of Norland and arguing him down to nothing - if their son were to have a numerous family, he might regret that so large a sum had been parted with; they could live very comfortably on the money they had; her mother had a horror of annuities and claimed that one's income was not one's own with such drains upon it; all the china, plate and linen of the late Mr Dashwood's were left to his widow, some of which was much handsomer than what belonged to the family estate; lastly and most convincingly:

"Your father thought only of them. And I must say this: that you owe no particular gratitude to him, nor attention to his wishes, for we very well know that if he could, he would have left almost everything in the world to them."

As John, on his father's death, had already been assured of inheriting the other half of his late mother's money in addition to his already large income, the addition of an estate worth about four thousand a year (about the income of Mr Bingley in Pride and Prejudice) contributed far less to his comfort than a fair share (their father's predecessor had stipulated that the estate was to pass entirely to John and later his son Harry in turn without provision for Henry's three daughters being siphoned off) would have done to that of his half-sisters.

Thank you, CMD @53 / Harriet @56. I will take on board what you mean when you say "someone." I do note that coming from that someone, it reads as a one-sentence, almost throwaway remark, which you take and run with, spinning an analysis as if it were based in fact. And I admit that I myself have done a bit of overthinking when it comes to this particular letter so let's shake hands and leave it. Instead of having to give any acknowledgement whatsoever to another "someone's" aspersions, which I don't find amusing in the least, given that they have become so alarming in tone.

Have I become alarming Fan? How so. Just defending a woman’s right to have fulfilling sex with her partner. Surprised you don’t think the same.

@62. Bi. We all have our 'special someones'. Or rather, they have us. They have us--we get into their bonnet in some way--for reasons of their own, I would say, usually unconnected with what we say. Tone, and the ability to disagree civilly, is certainly important.

If my 'special someone' is reading this, you're not the one who's being 'alarming'. There's nothing alarming about you. Sporty is the alarming one. You cannot speak for all adolescent girls because you were once an adolescent girl yourself. It’s especially bad form to do this talking to someone (a trans or bigendered person) with a strong female identification.

@60. Venn. I remember it now--how could I have forgotten? I think what I remember in Austen are the romances, more than the details of income and characters' high-mindedness (or lowness) in dealing with it. Apart from the 'retrenchment' in Persuasion--I remember that.

M?? Harriet - Ah, yes, the retrenchment in Persuasion. Poor Lady Russell (though it did show admirably how she was of sound rather than quick abilities).

Speaking of Persuasion, I have been contemplating the interesting directorial decision about Elizabeth's posture in the motion picture. Phoebe Nicholls absolutely slouches in her chair, which is clearly something a handsome daughter of a handsome baronet would never have done in that time, and Elizabeth at least always maintained the appearance of good breeding. It's a subtle signal, I've always supposed, slightly more useful than another of my favourite out-of-place moments - when Angela Lansbury played Miss Marple, there was a scene in which she sat at table after dinner, actually smoking a cigarette, something Miss Marple (who clearly considered such conduct to belong to the domain of gentlemen) would never have done.

Lava @63: You're Harriet's nemesis. I think we all know who mine is! You and I sometimes disagree but we fundamentally respect each other. Nothing alarming about the things you say. I sympathise, she's deep in NRE and she wants a good fuck, nothing wrong with that. But there is also nothing wrong with wanting to be discreet so family members, children at that, won't hear. He thinks he's found a good compromise with the quieter oral/manual sex, but it's not working for her. Further argument against their moving in together, so they can keep her place as an option for sexy times.

I don’t bother with reading Harriet, Fan, it was only because CMD mentioned me that I got sucked in again to that poster’s weirdo obsession with my words. However they self identify, they come across as an ignorant, arrogant male to me.

Fan, he’s already doing her with his tongue. That would yuk the teenage girls out more knowing dad was doing that. And they just roll their eyes at each other the next day if they hear anything.
Sure, I think they need to wait. It’s his family and he has to be comfortable in how he runs it.
Two households with children in each, it’s hard to make time to be together easily. They want to become a family, and before they do it, these issues have to be resolved.
Mongolians who live in big tents which are movable manage to fuck when their kids and often parents are in the same tent. It can be done quietly.

LW, moving in with this dude sounds like a VERY bad idea. I say this as someone who was sensitive to a kid being on the other side of the wall when I was married and cohabiting. Having quiet or subdued sex all the time got boring really fast. Once I had some privacy again due to co-parenting from separate households, I noticed what a HUGE difference it made in my sexual satisfaction to feel free to be totally uninhibited in a space without kids present. Not even remotely comparable. I think some people are more sensitive to this privacy issue than others. Maybe discuss how he handled this with his previous partner to get a sense of how likely it is to be something he can change or overcome. If you do move in together, maybe have some plan in place to fuck elsewhere on a regular enough basis to maintain passion. Then the quiet intimacy between those times can fill a different need.

Where’s Grizelda, I should get double score for that one.
If children from birth hear sounds coming out of their parents’ room, it becomes background noise. How do all the kinkster parents do it?
I stayed with my parents’ friends in a caravan, when I was around five. They had a boy my age and we were mates. I was woken while they were fucking, it didn’t freak me out, even though I didn’t know what the hell they were doing. It’s become a fond memory of witnessing life.

Harriet, you do a dis service to those authentically confronting gender stero types with your claims of having a foot in every camp. Ignore my posts as I ignore yours. Please.

Lava- Harriet aside, I do find your posts alarming and offensive at times. You often jump to early conclusions on different situation while blasting the male side of the story, like you did with your very first post on this thread @ 22: “Don’t move in with him LW, he’s being a dick. Fine he can have his weirdo story…”
What makes you be so negative? Other posters, men and women alike, have also shared similar thoughts and experiences. Last week you got very philosophical about “cunt,” how offensive it is, beginning of life and all that, yet you use “dick” liberally despite the possible offensive connotations to others.

You have toned down your criticism of this thread's guy in most of your other posts here, yet there are quite a few other contradictions in your many and seemingly random posts on this thread alone.

The kids will not be satisfied that their dad is finally getting some. That only occurs with precocious kids on TV - real life isn't Gilmore Girls.

Regardless, the problem isn't the the kids don't want to hear sex noises, it's that their dad doesn't want them to hear him. He's got a right to want to keep his sex discrete - it's not like he's hiding /the relationship/ - he's trying to hide something that was always meant to be private in the first place.

I have three kids who are 16 - 24. I'm mortified at the thought of them hearing me doing anything vaguely sexual.
That's another reason why shower sex is soooooo hot. Save your squeeky bed for vanilla stuff when the kids are gone, but use the shower, counter, floor, etc. in the meantime.

CMD, sorry. I shouldn’t use dick and I won’t in future.
My initial response, which was he was a tool for making life so difficult for him and the LW., stands. As the thread has gone on I’ve added different shadings.
I can understand his reticence, having had kids in the house when having sex, and I also imagine the work involved with blending families. I have sympathy for both their positions.
I also believe he’ll damage this new family if he maintains his up tightness about his daughters being in the house when they have PIV sex.
Hence some tough loving from my comments.
Consistent in my head and heart. I like to see people make new families and parents be solid with their kids. Have only affection for both these people.

I think one has to read all the posts (even just skim them) to follow the discussion.

Lava @69, I will congratulate you on a well earned lucky number! I think the difference is that (he thinks) they can't hear the oral sex because it's quieter. Or perhaps he struggles to maintain an erection if he's worrying about whether kids can hear, which isn't an issue if he's just going down on her. Hope that while we've been debating, they've come up with some workarounds. And decided to put off the big shack up.

Lava- thanks for @ 76.
Harriet@ 77- I did men it when I wrote "Harriet aside."

it wasn't Freudian nor pink silk. I mean.

Harriet I don’t have to read your comments to know you’ve taken liberties again with every corner of the human experience, you’ve had em all after all.. because either Fan or EL or someone will call you out on your fabrications to the story.
There is no conversation when you make stories up to fit your notion of the LW’s plight. You on your own doing some solo dance.. not all the time, sure, enough that I don’t now bother to read your posts.

You can’t say it wasn’t a Freudian / silk slip, CMD, because the whole notion of a FS, is that it by passes your conscious mind.
Men indeed.
Fan, how is oral less noisy than PIV. Good point re the erection. If that’s the case they may wish to run this by a therapist. He may be needing to shed some unhealthy attitudes. Like would he have this same response if he had sons?
Being a parent around one’s own and one’s children’s sexuality is difficult, creating boundaries and still being an adult with adult needs.
Kids do go to sleep, so I think this is a psychological issue for him and some therapy might help here.

Lousy spelling is not a FS;

Noise-y. Like edge-y. No?

Buy a foam mattress - they are the BEST and so much more comfortable to sleep on. They won't make a sound when you fuck. And don't do it in the car unless you're truly out in the middle of nowhere. Also, if you're giving each other oral sex, doesn't it get even a little bit loud? Sometimes? Whispering "Yes, YES" or whatever just wouldn't cut it for me. To each her own though.

Well I think we're probably all in agreement in hoping they've found resolution in this, and that she's finally getting the deep, hard poundings she craves.