Chuck hopes...
let us help you out'

Boeing Looking More and More Like the Torpedo That Will Sink Seattle


@1 #didntreadpastthetitle


All these wingnuts are living Feudalism and fantasizing about Capitalism... as the comments illustrate.
'A rose by any other name would smell as sweet', just so many levels to that Bard.


How is this different than, say, Ford's big buyback following the Explorer/Firestone problems?


Better written as "Boeing downfall could be factor in expected stock market plunge". Hyperbole is fine in text, but horrible in headlines.


"Speculators" is generous, Charles. Even "opportunists" is charitable. "Exploiters" is surely accurate. "Tyrants", also. "Rapists", indeed, is near to fact.


Somehow $1 billion doesn't seem like that much when it's spending 50x that on stock. Boeing is still making profits from it's aerospace and defense sectors, but somehow I wouldn't be surprised if they still beg for a taxpayer bailout.


4 What in the hell does that have to do with the price of rice in China, you moron?


Yeah, the Markets tank and
planet-wide War breaks out...
And yet, Boeing still wins:
"Haha! We've OWN War!"

Can we Save Capitalism fom Its own self?
^ Trick question ^
Perhaps it isn't Worth Saving?

Can Economics Evolve?
Do we need Democratic Socialism
now more than ever?

@6 Capitalism does NOT believe in Externalities.
That's Societies' Problem.


@7 -- the 'one billion' dollar negative cost factor's
gotta be the lowest ball in the game of Lowball, ev er.

They never shouldda 'partnered' with the FAA.

And, without Union Employees on Boeing's Board of Directors
they're* probably gonna go down faster than a MAX 8 in Africa.

*Commercial Aviation
Their bomber jetplanes
and weapons of Mass Destruction
Division's gonna be Just Fine
Thank you.


‘And sure enough, we on Earth are now learning from the New York Times about "shoddy production" and "safety lapses" and "manufacturing mishaps" and workers filing "whistle-blower claims" at Boeing’s North Charleston plant.’

Said plant produces 787 airplanes. Not 737-MAX. Know of any problems with 787s, Charles?

Facts are always the torpedos which sink Charles’ arguments.


We wasted a good crisis.

The Obama election did not result in FDR Part 2, as I and many others had hoped. Instead of Keynesian solutions, what we saw was a continuation of the same classical neoliberalism that shocked the housing market in 2008.

The result was that we were told the economy had recovered, although for most Americans, they could not see evidence of recovery in their own lives. Instead, small towns across t(e Midwest saw the family grocery store replaced by a WalMart and a Family Dollar. Steel mills stayed shuttered, and the unemployed turned to meth both to earn the money they could not get from legitimate work, and to dull the pain of poverty without hope of escape.

The south saw continued deregulation, more ‘right two work’ legislation sold to them as a way to attract the ‘job creators’. Only the jobs themselves now paid so little, you needed three or four jobs to support yourself. Supporting a family was now out of the question, so birth rates fell.

In 2016, there was some hope. Bernie signs could be found sandwiched between roadsides and soybean fields across the heartland. Upon learning from Donna Brazille that the debates had been fixed, and from John Podestas emails that the DNC rigged the game against their ray of hope, and seeing that the remaining Democratic contender refused to even go to states like Wisconsin, they felt taken advantage of. On Election Day, many stayed home. Some voted for Bernie. A few voted for Trump.

Then, Dan Savage took to the airwaves to inform the desperate Midwesterners that they are in fact, idiots. At best. At worst, he declared, they were straight up evil. They sit be racist, he declared, ignoring the votes for Obama twice over. They must all be sexists, he insisted, ignoring his own disdain for Sarah Palin and Jill Stein- who are, if I am not mistaken, also women. Dan knew exactly how to change the minds of the people we need to win in 2020- he would insult them.

Whice is just brilliant, I mean, I wonder why nobody thought of just insulting the electorate like that before. Most campaigns usually bend over backwards to declare that the voters are very smart. They can be mislead, they may have been led to, but they are all very smart. Not Dan. To him, the way to win you over is to tell you that you are a fucking moron.

Thankfully, Dan is not running for POTUS. Sadly, one person who was seems to echo him. And how I wish she would shut up and go away. You lost, girl. It’s over. Goodbye.

Now, the crisis is upon us yet again. Will we offer them TARP, again? Will we turn again to free trade, ill we again defer the EFCA? Will we tell the unions, “you just have to wait” or “it’s too late, nobody listens to you anymore?” Will we cover the rotting floorboards with a carpet yet again, and just tell everyone not to walk too close to the middle of it?

Or, will we try something different this time? How about a New Deal instead of a raw one?

Do not waste this crisis.



Another 'brilliant analysis' --

If Boeing cuts corners at one plant, why,
they'd NEVER do the same at Two.

Or, say sayonara to Capitalism.

Scuse me: Buh-bye Privatized Socialism.


If Boeing wants to survive they need to ditch the "take an old plane and call it a new plane" approach and actually build all-electric and all-biofuel propellor and jet planes that will be common in 5 years.



I was in quality systems oversight at Boeing South Carolina for 8 years and got laid off after the company implemented taking away quality functions and letting the mechanics approve their own work. Operations were also completed out of sequence due to production pushes


Gotta agree with phoebe @5

Boeing itself isn't going to crash the market alone, but if Charles is correct that Boeing is merely one of many house of cards out there then it could just be the first one that leads to the wholesale crash.


Six months from now when I’m sitting in a Max flying to Kauai for vacation, all I will remember is, what did Charles once fart about?


Bitter Butthurt Bernie Bro @12 is wasting a good headline post. Charles clearly informed us, in his very first line, that he fully intended to pack this post with huge helpings of Extra Double Super Wrong. I picked up an obvious one, but I can’t do all the lifting myself, team!

@13: Why do you believe cutting corners in the Renton factory was a root cause of the 737-MAX crashes? Cite the accident reports, and show your root-cause analysis.



"I was in quality systems oversight at Boeing South Carolina for 8 years and got laid off after the company implemented taking away quality functions and letting the mechanics approve their own work." --@15

Precisely Boeing's approach with the MAX 8s and 9s --
partner up with the FAA and allow Boeing to approve its own work.

Cutting corners is what Capitalists do Best.

Sounds like Boeing's now gonna learn ALL Pilots how to fly their new Improved 737s. My Gawd, what Breakthrough!

Nader says keep them on the Ground.
And he's been right on Consumer Safety way more than he's been wrong.


I'm sure Boeing will take down the entire stock market... meanwhile.. "US economy grows by 3.2% in the first quarter, topping expectations"

I would argue that Boeing is a perfect example of Capitalism at work. They were trying to compete with Airbus, they screwed up, their company will suffer. They will have to innovate, change and fix their problems. They will become stronger. They will again become competitive and that competition will provide better products improving the lives of everyone.

Or we can give up on Capitalism, convert to Socialism and remove the financial incentive that drives innovation. Take Pharmaceutical companies the Bogeyman of Capitalism. The reaction to their unreasonable price increases is to remove profits entirely? This would stall research and development of lifesaving drugs killing even more people. Capitalism will be here in 1000 years, will you?



And only 350 people had to die in order for their problems to be brought to light so that they can innovate and begin providing better products to improve everyone's life! What a heartwarming story.


@20: “Precisely Boeing's approach with the MAX 8s and 9s --
partner up with the FAA and allow Boeing to approve its own work.

Actually, DERs and QA are entirely different things. Which is a way of saying they’re not “precisely” the same thing. But thanks for playing.

(Also, some guy on the internet is not an accident report.)

Meanwhile, you do know that Renton isn’t in South Carolina, right? Please say you do, I’m getting worried.


Oh good I’m not the only one struggling with what Charles is trying to say.

Essentially, that stock markets are speculative, and shareholders are going to freak out when they realize this, right? This isn’t exactly anything, um, new. Or did I miss something brilliant buried under all these dull, dry words?



Not to mention the glaringly obvious fact that Pharmaceutical companies have single-handedly created the current opioid crisis by virtue of their insatiable compulsion to make as much money as quickly as possible, regardless of the consequences in human terms. Same goes for the skyrocketing price of Insulin - they literally do not care how many people suffer or even die as a result of their predatory practices; only that those victims pay through the nose until they shuffle off their mortal coils.


@8 The situations struck me as similar.

Today: Manufacturer (Boeing) responds to large-scale products liability problem (787 Max) with massive stock buyback. Pundits predict dire consequences.

Then: Manufacturer (Ford) responds to large scale-products liability problem (Explorers w/ Firestone tires) with massive stock buyback. Pundits predict dire consequences.

Why do you ask?


@26 -- actually, Boeing quit buying them back sometime around when the second one hit the ground. Does that play havoc with your theory?

@25 -- Neolibs and Cons refuse to acknowledge their disdain for the common Citizenry, and would far rather the serf'd just assume their proper role in the food chain as Consumers albiet with a little collateral Damage. You've got to expect a little collateral Damage, along with your unbridled Capitalism.

Which is chiefly why Repubs had to do away with the Consumer Protections Bureau. They were sticking up for The Citizenry! How fucking Brazen.

@23 -- You a never seem to address my key concern -- placing Boeing Employees on Boeing's Board of Directors.

Those with a stake in the Game just might help
keep Boeing's fiscal wolverines at bay.


@22 so your solution to 1 company creating a product that killed people... is to tear down the entire Capitalist system? They made a mistake and they are paying for it. That is Capitalism.
If it was Socialism it would be swept under the rug to save the precious leaders from embarrassment.
@25 So because opioids abuse occurred when that drug as been critical for millions living with chronic pain we should throw out the entire Pharmaceutical industry? Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. There are many other methods to deal with that issue than to chastise the entire industry based on a few companies profit seeking, considering it is profits that have created thousands of drugs that have saved countless lives. But blaming the drug companies suppling the demand of consumers is an easy scapegoat. Kudos


@27: "You a never seem to address my key concern -- placing Boeing Employees on Boeing's Board of Directors."

Oh, I understand that you're quite willing -- eager, even! -- to push your agenda by exploiting the needless and violent deaths of children. I understand, with deep sorrow for your family and great pity for you, that's just the type of person you can't help but be. But you have yet to show how your manipulatively exploitative agenda, vitally important though it might seem to you, has anything of any kind whatsoever to do with any of the engineering or pilotage questions which have yet to be answered.

Shorter: I'm not deaf, I'm ignoring you.


@29 -- You have an odd way of "ignoring" me.
But you're quite Slippery whilst evading inquiries.

So you think my idea of installing Union Members on Boeing's Board is,
"pushing your [my] agenda by exploiting the needless and violent deaths of children,"?

Because, yeah, because who wouldn't make THAT connection.

Okay, tentsrus -- have it your Way.
And Capitalism can have itself for Breakfast.


This week in "What Will Crash The Stock Market (And End Capitalism, This Time I Promise)" with Charles Mudede:

Charlie plays with his aeroplanes again. "Pew pew pew!" says Charlie, waving the little red aeroplane over his head. "Kaboom!" Charlie adds, burying the red aeroplane in the sofa cushions. Where is the aeroplane? "All Gone!" giggles Charlie.


Hey, tentsrus,whilst you're busy ignoring me, here's another example of someone "pushing your agenda by exploiting the needless and violent deaths of children."

Oh, and the upcomng, self-imposed demise of Capitalism:

"A veteran commercial pilot and software engineer with over three decades of experience has just written the most damning account of the recent Boeing 737 fiasco. At one level, author Gregory Travis has provided us with the most detailed account of why a particular plane model once synonymous with reliability became a techno-death trap.

But ultimately, his story is a parable of all that is wrong with 21st-century capitalism; Boeing has become a company that embodies all of its worst pathologies.

It has a totally unsustainable business model—one that has persistently ignored the risks of excessive offshoring, the pitfalls of divorcing engineering from the basic R&D function, the perils of 'demodularization,' and the perverse incentives of 'shareholder capitalism,' whereby basic safety concerns have repeatedly been sacrificed at the altar of greed.

It’s also a devastating takedown of a company that once represented the apex of civilian aviation, whose dominance has been steadily eroded as it has increased its toxic ties to the U.S. military. In that sense it mirrors the decline of America as a manufacturing superpower.

And finally, it shows a company displaying a complete loss of human perspective in the 'man vs. machine' debate."

From "Boeing Is a Perfect Parable for 21st-Century Capitalism" in Truthdig
A great article and well worth the read.


When Profits are all that matter, how is the Citizenry -- the Owners of this country -- being served? We've handed away our Oversight.

I don't seem to remember voting for that.


Boeing made serious errors, but Boeing stock price is up year-over-year.

And I don't see how even a total Boeing collapse would tank the market. (It would give Airbus an effective monopoly, at least until China upped its game.)

Like Trump, Mudede sees what he wants to see, and never admits error,.


@35 -- Excellent idea.

Here's Ralph on the 737 Max. AI, etc:




@32: As we have yet no final reports on the 737-MAX crashes, no one can yet explain how (or even if) Boeing’s corporate decisions contributed to said crashes. Anyone who claims to do so before all the evidence is examined simply exploits this tragedy for his own purposes — just like you said. (Any such person also counts on the gullibility of readers — thank you for demonstrating that point again as well.)


@39 No "final" report but they do have enough information at this point that concludes the MCAS is responsible for the malfunction. From an engineering standpoint that's pretty clear. There is plenty of information available to determine at this point Boeing was attempting to maximize short term sales and profits.

Because they were going to get creamed by Airbus instead of building a plane from the ground up they repurposed the air frame from the then current 737 line. To compete they had to put larger engines on and change the position of them leading to an unbalance of the aircraft on climb. To compensate they added MCAS and a single point of failure in the angle of attack sensor in the nose. Then to eliminate the cost of training pilots they didn't tell the buyers they had done this. The malfunctioning MCAS would force the nose down regardless of what the pilots did. No one told the pilots this.

So a rush to market with an existing product modified and self approved with features not known to the operators is exactly why they are in the position they are in. Instead of taking the time and money to design an appropriate aircraft for the task they cobbled together what they had with a Band-Aid of software and electronics to focus on short term sales and profits.



Well played.


@39 -- A loverly narrative
but the World's Moved On.

Perhaps you might be the First one to go up in a new, Newer Max--
Good Luck!



Very well put.
Thank you.


@40 thank you.


@42 -- don't forget the Manual!

and a Para Chute.


@40: Waving your hands and declaring the preliminary reports to be sufficient is not a wise course of action, although it was a crowd-pleasing one here. Airbus’ competing product is the A320neo — “new engine option,” which shows Boeing’s approach was not unique, although you tried very hard to indict Boeing for it.

Meanwhile, it’s good to see Charles can actually find relevant information when asked — even if it didn’t yet exist at the time he made his original claims.

Please wait...

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