...Dan, you just made a joke about a black guy not knowing how to swim. I don't think it was intentional, but...

The LW needs to know about Studio 5'4", a regular party started in SF, but now all over: https://www.facebook.com/studiofivefootfour/

@1: Wasn't aware that was a stereotype/thing/problem. First draft said "don't wanna drown" and changed it to "don't know how to swim" because that drowning seemed too grim. Changed it back. Thanks for the heads up.

I’m a straight woman who had a definite type when I was younger - I liked slender, wiry guys with curly hair - and ended up with a thick, muscular guy with a chest and shoulders like a draft horse and straight black hair. Turns out that when you fall in love, you find your loved one sexy.

@3 you didn't know the 'black people can't swim' stereotype?!?! Holy moly I thought that one was universal.

I get that the gym is important to him and so it seems like he's basically using the gym as a site to identify that mighty mouse. And that mighty mouse seems to need to be buff, so the gym is going to be the spot. Maybe the guy needs to switch up his hours or jump around to different gyms. Or use a dating app and be explicit about what he wants.

@4 says: Turns out that when you fall in love, you find your loved one sexy.

Yes! That was my experience, too!

Black people in the US historically were unwelcome in public pools (and probably beaches, too). Still the case in some places, I'm sure.

@5: Looks like it's less of a stereotype and more of an actual problem — created by institutional racism: http://www.ymca.net/summer-buzz/highest-risk-for-drowning

Still, nothing to be flip about. And, nope, didn't know.

There are tall guys who aren’t power bottoms?

Where can I find them?

@1 @5 - I'm in my late 60s and I've never heard that black people can't swim. Maybe because I've lived in places where everyone, including black people, swam. Why wouldn't black people swim? That's crazy. Reality, that's the best way to puncture stereotypes.

Yes LW, you do sound arrogant and love isn’t about value on the open market. It’s a spark, it’s a recognition between two ships passing in the night.
Hard to believe most men in the world aren’t shorter than you, perhaps you live on BasketBallers Island.
Cut the vanity down a few notches, enjoy your popularity for what it is, and spend less time at the gym. Use that extra time to go learn stuff, develop yourself and your self worth beyond your muscles. Go to libraries, and bookshops, there you might find your love. Oh, that’s my fantasy, sorry to slip it in there.
Go to where you have an interest, do a class.
Someone might marry you because you have a beautiful body, yes it is an asset and to be maintained, they will also love who you are inside.

It is easy to tell people they need to be more open-minded about a potential partner's body type, and it is true that an unwillingness to compromise may lead to disappointment. On the other hand, preferences seem to become deeply imprinted not unlike our kinks in that regard.

As for W, he writes, "Short guys are always down for a solid pounding but I am truly so over random hookups." W's issue doesn't seem to be that short buff gay guys don't exist in reasonable numbers, but that none are interested in him as more than a hookup. Why hasn't he been able to convert any of these hookups into a relationship? Lots of relationships start with fun sex, which turns into a substantive relationship. It may also be that he is doing something during these hookups (or not doing something) that is turning off these guys, for instance his arrogance. Or perhaps W is overestimating his sexual market value. There is a difference in one's value as tonight's sex partner versus one's value as a long-term, monogamous partner.

W, why not open your search to trans men?

I sympathise -- the dynamics of sex are very different with someone significantly taller than oneself. And agree with Sublime @12 that some preferences are deeply ingrained and attempting to override them does neither of you any favours. Shorter than 5'6" is a (ha) tall order, but he could go up to, say, 5'8" or 5'9" and not have an inconvenient height issue when topping. Shorter guys often feel undesired, so perhaps he could find a more dating-oriented app for gays -- if this exists -- and start approaching shorter men. Note that many short men lie about their height, so someone claiming to be 5'7" has a good chance of being shorter than W.

Also, Dan is very straight-friendly, so I don't know why you'd be surprised that your straight friend raves about him! And I hadn't heard the "black people can't swim" stereotype either.

Sublime @12: Agree also that his "I'm so over random hookups" issue is his own. If you're over random hookups, don't fuck a guy within an hour of meeting him. Have an actual date. Go out for an actual meal, kiss goodnight, and both of you go home. Then have a second date, and maybe a third. If you get along as people, then you can investigate whether you click in bed. That's how straight people have done it for decades, and you see a lot of married straight people. W is treating himself as a sexual commodity, so it's no wonder other men are treating him the same way.

Sorry LW I read your height as 6 foot 5. Whoops.
The title threw me off, me thinking you were the tall guy, I saw tall nos.
True Fan, there was something distant about the way the LW writes about himself, he objectifies himself. Yes, go on dates and close down hook up scenarios.

LW, It’s hard to wade thru the body vanity as your peak attribute to find some vulnerability.
It’s there, in you saying you want to marry and you want to stop having hookups. So start there. Be honest with yourself that you’d like to find a life mate, and start by no longer having hook ups.
There must be men shorter than you out there, have you looked for them on dating sites or in bars or outside your gym anywhere.

Maybe short guys don't like him because he fetishizes them.

Ms Lava - I'm glad you caught your misread. I quite agree with your overall assessment; I'm sure that, if I met such a person and had a clue of the three hours' daily lifting, I'd politely drift away.

Ms Fan - Expanding to the T sounds quite practical.

Cocky @20-@21: Oh, they do in straight (and bi) landia as well. But this isn't working for W, so it may be time for him to try a different approach. I agree with Venn; "I spend three hours a day at the gym" would be off-putting for me too. When would this guy have time to build a relationship? As for dating, I know I'm a broken record but OKCupid and its matching algorithm have cut the number of dates it takes to "meet someone" -- ie develop into an ongoing thing -- from 1 in 50 to about 2 in 3 for me. Is OKC gay man-friendly? I know my experience differs from the monogamous one, but honestly, if W can afford a gym membership he can afford a coffee with a new person each week, dinner if he likes them enough for date two. Dating is expensive, but if a relationship is what W wants he might have to splash out on more than just a box of condoms.

W spends THREE HOURS A DAY lifting? And he thinks this makes him cool and desirable? Okay, I'm a bi-leaning-towards-lesbian woman, so I'm not in his target audience, and he's not in mine, but to me that screams "shallow and self-absorbed."

Maybe he'd meet a wider range of people if he spent time volunteering or took a class in something that sounds interesting or got involved in a cause that matters to him.

cbu @21, Yes hookups can lead to LTRs in straightland as well. It’s this guy we are responding to, and the suggestions need to be tailor made. Fan hit it suggesting he make his connections with people formal, because he’s treating himself and others like things and others
are returning the favour.
Men presenting as sex objects is no less sad than women doing it.
This man needs help, he’s not young no matter how buff he is. He wants a mate, one who is shorter than him. The reason none of his connections are going anywhere is because he’s stuck believing his body is all he’s got to offer.
Leads into other comments you’ve made about gay culture cbu.
Gay men are people too. By that I mean they have a heart, have intimacy needs, are not just a dick/ arsehole/ nice bod. Yet so many seem to only present themselves that way.

LW: I don't think you sound arrogant at all! I like your vibe. I have two pieces of advice:

SPENDING $$ FOR "A-LIST" ON OKCUPID OR ANOTHER SIMILAR DATING SIGHT MIGHT BE THE BEST $$ YOU HAVE EVER SPENT!!!! Whatever feature allows you to filter for height and body type might really worth it to you. People who get lots of attention often don't think they "need" to spring for premium features but trust me it pays to get to be selective.
Since our culture worships tall guys, I have a feeling part of the reason that you aren't into them is because they make you feel short in a way you don't like. Exploring different dynamics with tall guys might help... if what you're feeling is that being the shorter partner is bad or unpleasant somehow, what can you do to try and mix up some of those associations? I might try seeking out tall submissive bottoms. The experience of topping a subby tall guy might help awaken you to new possibilities and new combinations. It can actually be a really, really great feeling of power to top someone much bigger than you, even thought I think a lot of us get nervous that it will somehow make us feel ridiculous. Once you get into the groove it can be really good.

I agree with others, love is inexplicable when it comes to body shapes. One of my life’s loves was a heavy set man going bald in his early thirties. He was such a beautiful mixture of what is good about a person, I saw his body shape as beautiful too.
You’ve got to trust the spark LW, which you won’t notice until you see yourself as a whole person and you examine all of that person. You are not only a, by the sound of it overbuilt, body.
You are also a heart and it’s time you took care of that part of yourself.
Look for the spark and good luck.

His approach to finding a partner seems so transactional and objectified.

I question the well-educated bit. Recognizing you gave a type you’re attracted to and going after that? That’s cool. Saying you won’t date tall guys because you tried it and it didn’t work out? Not logical.

This guy has two options. 1. Expand his dating pool. It’s worth noting that there is a tolerable range of men In between shorter than him and tall. 2. Expand his search for his preferred type. Brilliant Adonis that he is, that doesn’t mean that his type will start coming to his gym and all he need do is wait around like the Star of India until he finds a royal necklace he likes to attach himself to. Look harder, bro. Also, if short guys are around who will let him fuck them but not let him date them, he might want to consider why, and that consideration might include how he is meeting these guys but also whether he is off putting in some way.

I do encourage people to have a realistic view of where they fall in societal dating desirability hierarchies so they do not have unrealistic expectations preventing them from having a meaningful relationship. But this guy might want to consider how the life he is living - three hours a day at the gym, constant hookups, etc. might look to those who are in the market for a serious long term relationship with a man who will be temporally and emotionally available for them.

three hours a day lifting and has advanced degrees so assuming he is a professional which means probably a 9-10 hour work day. So 12 hours a day between gym and work. Maybe diversify your interests a bit and spend more time outside the gym. Like @23 said get out there and participate in some other things. Also the reason why some of these relationships might not be working out is maybe you aren't putting the time in. What are your priorities? Is it work, then gym, then relationship?

TLC @17 and Alanmt @28: Gold star comments. Hope W reads them!

I have also never heard the thing about black people being unable to swim. Maybe because I grew up in a place with no black people, and nowhere to swim, either.

I agree with some other posters that three hours at the gym, combined with the work-load most likely in someone who is getting/has advanced degrees, sounds like a situation where the guy isn't going to have much free time or many outside interests. It's fair to assess yourself as desirable, but that doesn't mean you should stop thinking about ways you might improve. To me, it sounds like he may come off as a bit high-maintenance. It's nice to have a partner with focus, but it's also nice if that partner can relax or focus on your stuff sometimes, too. Maybe he could reduce to an hour a day at the gym, and start reading books, or learning to cook, or something to add a bit of variety to what he has to offer.

And if there are no short guys at your gym, try another gym?

Agree with Lava @ 11. I personally would stay away from someone spending three hours at the gym DAILY, let alone if this is what they’re likely to bring to a committed LTR.

BDF @ 13
Yes, some trans men are short and into bottoming.
As for “Dan is very straight-friendly” I’m glad attitudes shifted over the years. “Breeders” was used as an inclusive term as well as an assertion that all straight men are closeted gays.

Obviously I’m also siding with Venn @ 18 and apparently quite a few others. Credentials don’t always make for good relationships.

I also wasn’t aware of the swimming reference yet would like to point out that the kids started swimming in a pool named after one Medgar Evers.

LW might go so far in a personal ad to say "shorter a +", but saying that he's only looking for shorter guys, is likely to make him look as shallow as those who say no fats, no fems, etc.

Few of us want to feel like someone else's fetish. Most of us want to be loved for who were are, not what we are. The trick is to balance fetish and attraction.

@32 "Short guys are always up for a pounding BUT..."

Yeah, that caught my eye too. Maybe the fact that LW is making these huge assumptions about the short guys he does meet at the gym is part of his problem? (beyond the arrogance, narcissism, and inflexible attitude?)

Because as an average height guy who also happens to find shorter guys a turn on, I can personally attest to the fact that there are plenty of short guys who enjoy giving a good pounding too (thank god).

Anytime someone makes assumptions about what someone else does or enjoys in bed based on something as irrelevant to sexual interest as height, race, build, hair color etc... I think it's a red flag both for relationships and sex.

Who wants to be automatically relegated to some sexual role based on some genetic quirk they had no control over? I would think even short guys who were into being bottoms would be turned off by the casual categorizing / stereotyping of them based on their height.

I feel that the LW is very insecure despite his inflated self-valuation on the market. He probably believes that, if he doesn't do 3 hours daily at the gym, he'll let himself go - and then where would his market value be. What a tragedy for him to dread.

He also wants everyone to know AT ALL TIMES that he's the top and he can only do that if he's the taller man. Hmm, he certainly doesn't have any imagination which is just another detraction from the overall boring self-absorbed package.

Helenka @ 36 - "overall boring self-absorbed package" should have been his pseudonym.

This poor guy is gonna get mad at his friend who raves about Dan Savage. Yes, we all see the glaring obvious, and it’s a problem in gay culture, no? Not just this guy who thinks a certain body shape is the key to all riches.
He’s written in, he’s asking for help. That he phrases his question so superficially, should he hold out for the shorter men or give in to the taller men, shows how much help he needs.
LW, as you can see, vanity and self absorption don’t go far in these threads and that’s all we see of you.
Bragging serves what purpose if you are asking for help. Don’t cover your loneliness in bravado, because you’ll get to your fifties and wonder how come it’s all still the same.

Ricardo @37

Thanks for the gales of laughter. Not only that, but the acronym can be pronounced OB (perhaps oblivious as well) SAP!

Helenka @ 39 - Thank you: you're the one who came up with it. And you've also managed to put the finger on the problem. He is awfully insecure... And when your insecurities taint or direct everything you do, others who aren't as insecure feel it and steer clear.

5'6" is below average height. Probably his ideal partners are just as shallow as he is and only into taller guys.

Hate to break it to you, W, but if my high school economics still serves me, your value on the open market is determined by what people are willing to pay for you. And, if nobody is paying that price, you are probably not as valuable as you think. Now, I do understand that you have probably left a lot out of your letter, but, nevertheless, you do sound a bit superficial. Finding love is not about ultimately about the value you represent, but about finding someone who makes you feel comfortable being yourself, good and bad. And that’s true of the guys you date, as well.

@3 Sportlandia - the universe is a large and wildly inconsistent place, very little is truly universal. In my part of the world, black people swim perfectly well. As did the lovely guy (and his wife) I met at my hotel swimming pool in Atlanta, teaching their daughter to swim. I had to demonstrate my butterfly technique to impress them. (Laughing means they were impressed, yeah?)

This is nit-picky, but he doesn't say he has or is working towards any advanced degrees. The Adonis just says, "well-educated," which could refer more to an elite college or simply mean that he has a college degree.

I think he might have skipped philosophy class a couple of times, while getting that education. "Know Thyself;" "The unexamined life is not worth living:" These statements are probably pretty foreign to him.

CMD @33 / Helenka @36: You've hit on another issue with the three-hour-a-day gym bod: the risk, real or perceived, that once said gym bunny finds a partner, they will no longer feel the need to keep their body in such great shape because they're no longer out hunting. Their spouse married them for better or worse, right? Perhaps this is not as much of a risk in the vain world of gaylandia, but it's a common reservation among women who are attracted to buff men. So you get with someone because they have a great bod, then they stop working out, and the only thing that attracted you in the first place is gone, and you're left with some couch potato with whom you have nothing in common. Give me someone with a natural looking physique any day.

Dear BDF- as much as i thrive for your attention and approval what i attempted to convey was my hesitance to date someone spending three hours at the gym daily to begin with, let alone planning to maintain the routine once we are in a committed relationship.

I'd never heard that stereotype either, but I'm very sad to say that i understood immediately where it would come from.

My Country 'Tis Of Thee :(

Also, yeah, sir, lose the gym for a few minutes. Do smth else. Learn a skill, take a class, take a walk, ANYthing. If you're thinking of love as a marketable commodity, you're doing it wrong.

CMD @45: You conveyed it, and I agree (see @22). Your comment merely suggested a different facet to the three-hours-a-day gym issue.

In addition to the problems others note about his demeanor and assumptions/generalizations in the letter, Whatever faces a major barrier statistically:

"I’m a 5’6” Black top & I sincerely adore buff bottom guys who are shorter than me."

He's not only looking for men who aren't taller than he his, he's looking for men who are SHORTER, AND buff AND gay AND bottoms (and, presumably, not so racist that a partnership with a Black man is impossible).

A 2007-2008 anthropometric survey by the US Census department found that between 9.8% and 13.1% of adult males under 60 (I'm not sure what his age preferences are, and the report I found groups the data by decade of age) are shorter than 5'6". And that's accurately measured - if we assume that Whatever does what almost all men do when self-reporting height (exaggerates by 1"-2"), then his real height is 5'5" or 5'4", leaving 5.6%-7.6% or 3.7%-4.3% of males shorter, respectively. Combine that with the fact that he's looking for gay or bi men (2%-10% of the population), who are buff (perhaps a higher proportion than straight men, but still nowhere near 100%) AND (primarily? exclusively?) bottoms, and Whatever is essentially seeking out 0.05% of men (let's be generous and say that a third of men who sleep with men are as buff as Whatever would like, and 2/3rds are primarily bottoms, and take a mid range estimate at the number of out gay/bi men of 4%, since he's looking for a romantic partnership, so closeted MSM won't cut it).

Or put another way, only 5 of every 10,000 men meet just his stated criteria. Some of whom are already partnered or aren't looking for partners. Put in the context of a large metro area - say, Chicago - that's only 5,000 potential men total, using higher estimates of the percentages of people with the noted features and without accounting for age (about 30% of the population is under 18, and he may have an upper age limit, too), shared interests, or anything else not noted that may be relevant.

CAN Whatever find an ideal partner? Maybe. Is it likely, just given the criteria stated? Nope. Even just going a couple inches taller than him will increase his statistical possibilities by almost an order of magnitude, as might relaxing his standards of buffness (my value of one third could well be much too high).

Since numbers are my jam, I also locked in on the 3 hours a day at the gym (we'll be generous and assume that includes transit/changing/showering/etc. time). If he's getting a healthy 8 hours of sleep and working a standard job (let's say 10 hours to account for commute time and the more-than-8-hour expectation of many salried positions most likely to be held by someone with advanced degrees), we've already accounted for 21 of the 24 hours in a day. Add time for meals, waking up/hygiene/going to bed routine, reading stuff on the Internet (Savage Love at minimum), and I'm up to 24 hours, at least on work days. That leaves only a few hours on weekends (some of which he'll need to spend on domestic chores for which he has no time during the week, unless he's wealthy enough to outsource ALL of his domestic labor) to have the hookups he's been having - unless those are AT the gym and accounted in the three hours of gym time - let alone time for dating. So, yes, I agree with everyone saying that's part of the issue.

I’ve heard of the swimming thing. When I worked in the UK it came up a couple of times in conversation. Apparently it’s because of concerns over chlorine and what it might do to your hair or skin. So, parents don’t let thier kids go swimming and get out out of swimming classes at school.

Jodo @ 49 - You might want to watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuGkVzeh4zM

The LW has a real problem--he's thinking of settling down, but hasn't found anyone his physical type interested in a LTR. The simplest answer is to find another gym with this type of guy in longer supply.... A more extended answer might be to encourage him to invest less in the norms of hookup and mating culture--'knowing his value', and so on. There's always something unguarded, even defenceless, about falling for someone. It likely involves an abandoning of one's previous scale of values, sense of self and self-worth, before the singular fact of the beloved's existing.

PS It’s become true of me that I lift for half an hour some days. Once I just lifted the flower to my nostrils in a Wildean way. Lift ... then go limp again. Lift ... go limp. My ass would be like blancmange compared to the guys W wants to fuck. Still, I hope he finds what he's looking for.

@32. cocky. Yes--a very pertinent question.

@33. CMD. I see 'breeders' in the way Dan used to--both straight and gay breeders. And there are so many gay breeders now. This isn't about taking up your responsibilities and caring for children, even liking or having a rapport with children. It’s about the heteronormative reflex.

@37. Ricardo. Ooh, sting, burn. His body is important to him; and why should it not be? His problem is that he's entering a phase of his life where the hookups are no longer enough. What's worked for him--well enough--before isn't working now. It’s a real perplexity, and why he's swallowed his pride and asked for advice. W. anticipates (I would think) the 'care less about your body' and 'cut down on the three hours' advice very well. He just needs to hear it from someone other than himself.

I'd heard of the 'black people can't swim' trope. In Europe it may merge in the murky popular imagination with the deaths of African migrants crossing over the Mediterranean in unsound boats from Libya. In my gym the adult beginners swimming class is 90% made up of West Africans, East Africans (by appearance) and Indians. As far as I know, none of the black people are Europeans. By far the most hesitant learner is the elderly white lady who is nervous in the water.

Harriet @ 52 - "His body is important to him"

The problem is, it's apparently the only thing that's important to him, and from the way he presents himself, that he thinks should be important to others.

Harriet- Dan used "breeders" to distinguish straights from gays back in the 90's, and possibly beyond. There were also not-so-flattering comments made about vaginas, which I will refrain from mentioning.
That said we all evolve, learn new things and likely regret some past comments.
There is plenty tolerance and understanding in here nowadays, and I’m glad this column has touched so may lives regardless of gender, orientation, and preferences..

When I first heard about Savage Love before even reading it, back in the days of print and actual letters only, I dismissed it as, “what could a gay man could possibly teach the rest of the world in that area.”
Obviously I was wrong.

@53. Ricardo. He mentions his education? His race is important to him?

@54. CMD. I read the forerunner to Savage Love (could it actually have been called 'Hey Faggot!'?) in SF Weekly in the early-to-mid 90s. This was a freesheet with a good film review and SL. I found Savage utterly intimidating! Now, with fifty winters sprinking my locks, I have a good idea of what Savage will say in response to any letter--my estimate would be that I'm right above 95% of the time. (occasionally, I'm even right in predicting he'll be wrong--wink). Then, I was never right; a woman would write in, asking 'my bf wants to take me up the ass. Does this mean he's gay?' and my mind would respond, 'yes, oooh yes, definitely gay...' and Savage would thunder, 'NO! He wants your girl butt, not some purely imaginary boy butt...'. Dan Savage's persona was a lot more bratty then and I think his readership would have been younger. This was at a time when I imagined that every person was suppressedly or potentially gay, so if Savage thought that, it would have been something we had in common (my recollection is that my version of this belief was even coarser than his then). Somehow I stopped seeing the column when I left the Bay Area. If there were any off-color remarks made about female sexual anatomy based on personal feelings of repulsion, I'd consider that quite regrettable.

M?? Harriet - You remind me much more of Bosie. Oscar would spend a morning inserting a comma, and an afternoon removing it.

Mr Horstman - How many people actually sleep eight hours a day? Besides, this LW appears to be the "Type A" sort of person.

I've heard the "black people can't swim" thing before. Mainly from a black person who can't swim.

In the US I think it is more an urban thing rather than rural. My friend who can't swim said that none of his family or the other black people he grew up with could swim because there was no opportunity for them to learn where he grew up in New England.

At the time public pools and many beaches were, even if not officially banned for all of his childhood, definitely not welcoming places for him and his family.

So they just never learned, and since they never learned they just never thought to make sure their kids learned.

It's easy to forget that not everyone has access to the same resources to learn these things. Where and when I grew up everyone learned to swim. We didn't pass PE if we didn't pass a swimming test by the end of 8th grade. I grew up in a time and place with fully integrated schools that all had pools and actual PE classes.

It never occurred to me that there are schools where swimming isn't taught, or places where some people don't really have access to a pool or other body of water where they can learn until he pointed it out.

Harriet @ 55 - Education: two words out of 232. Race: one word (repeated)... and if you haven't noticed, it's also a physical attribute, and mpst definitely one which can be of "value" in the gay world - the muscular black top stereotype.

Otherwise, he seems fixated on height - his and other people's - and on the fact that he's pretty jacked and that he spends a SOLID three hours lifting almost every day (the "solid" means he sees that as something he should be commended and congratulated for: he's the real deal, not some gym queen who just spends his time in the steamroom). He also wants us to know that he has a "lil pit bull physique".

I stand by my earlier statement.

If you spend three hours a day lifting, clearly the ONLY people you're going to meet outside work are other guys at the gym. That really limits your social circle, and a I don't personally know a lot of smaller bottom men who are going to show interest in a stacked muscle guy at the gym for fear of getting their teeth kicked in. That said, do you signal you're gay at the gym? Like wearing t-shirts that other gay guys would recognize? (Bars,etc.)

Black people not swimming

Several Olympics ago there was a black guy on the swim team who did really well, Cullen Jones. After retiring he started an organization that was dedicated to teaching inner city black kids to swim. Apparently drowning deaths among city kids is really high. Living in Chicago I recall the hoopla and publicity. I've also noticed the sheer number of tragedies at the beaches here in the summer, especially in the poorer areas.

@56. venn. Oooh ... and how did Oscar spend his evenings?