Wow and wow - good job, Dan (I felt that in my feely places)

Every time she said "my crush and I kissed" it reminded me of when people in legal trouble say they "caught some charges." Like, is there anything more to this story that got you there? In this case, say... you made a date, had some drinks maybe? Or you just bumped faces in the copy room by mistake?

It doesn't feel nice but it's ok to let relationships end. LW obviously doesn't have a problem meeting people—be excited for what's next.

Kudos Dan, great answers!

Has the LW never read Dans countless posts about monogamy, monogamish, ethical monogamy, DADT, open relationships, and polyamory (have I missed anything?) as well those about telling your significant other about indiscretions?

I, for one think while you can't really control who catches your fancy you can control (if you are a grown up) how you react to those feelings. I'll tell you a little story. I've been married 28 years, and we were monogamous for the first 24 years. During those 24 years I was never really tempted to cheat. Because I'm a big ol' grown up and sometimes that means NOT doing something you really want to do because it is the RIGHT thing to do. For sure there were people during that time that I WANTED to get with...I just exercised this thing called self control. In the end we did open up the marriage in some ways, and now I have at least the possibility of acting on those things, but really I still don't, by choice.

One of those old crushes still really makes me smile thinking about how into her I was, and even though I never acted on it, it is still pretty nice to have the memory of being around her and that was 25 years ago. I'd rather have that happy memory than have caused a bunch of drama and possibly messing up my marriage. So.Not.Worth.It.

This letter reads like the plot of one of the bad romances that people self-publish! LW was engaged and bf was travelling for work so they must be older than 16, so wow!

I lol-ed at #8

L-dub, I don't know why you stopped developing emotionally at age 13, but you're going to need to start that process up again. And maybe try not to date for a while. Oof.

"I enjoy sharing your podcast and watching people blush over the remarks you make. Thanks for the hours and hours of entertainment."
Gross. Unless those people also enjoy you sharing the podcast and then you watching them blush over the remarks Dan makes, you need to knock it off. Enjoy the entertainment of listening to the podcast and skip the part when you send it to people who don't want to listen to it, or at least not in front of you.

God I hope not. Just as a point of clarification.

I was momentarily confused by "he decided this in August" - okaaay, so a few days ago? - before realising it was a re-run.

Wonder what became of these two. I hope they didn't waste their entire 30s on more of this aneurysm-inducing drama.

@2 "What had happened was..."

I don't think I'd leave LW alone with a rabbit and a stove.

@11: Nicely done.

Ummm, is the letter write sure they have ever read/listened to Dan Savage before...? If that’s the case we all found out what it is like to actually show up to class every day and still somehow have to go to summer school for make up/remedial classes.

1) “...watching people blush over the remarks you make...”
Blushing? What? Are you listening to this at a nursing home or junior high?

2) This LW has (had?) one raging textbook case of ADHD. One of the reruns I don’t recall at all...must have missed the column that week.

LW reads like a character from Portlandia 😂

Glad I skipped to the answer to question 12 and saw this is a rerun. CITD would be over 40 now. I wonder if she is going to read this letter, cringe with embarrassment, and thank her lucky stars she had the sense to give up on this farce of a relationship and get some therapy.

+1 to @4 and @7.
Aftertheafter, if you're reading, here's what a truly stupid LW looks like.

The questions that matter to me are #5, 'should I believe him when he says there's no chance of getting back together?' and #12, 'should I just give up?'. If 12 means 'should I abandon all hope in dating? Should I despair?', the answer's 'no'. If it means, as Dan interpreted it, 'should I write off this particular relationship?', the answer's 'yes'. The answer to 5 is 'yes'. Should she lay by any hope that her marriage, or non-marriage, could be revived? She should not; things went wrong, and she should take her ex's words (he is hurting, resentful and bitter) at face value.

Both of them, at least for a while, liked the other better when the relationship picture was more complicated. He was willing to have 'emotionally charged' sex with her after walking out on the marriage. She wanted to be with him more after they'd separated, notwithstanding her feelings for her crush. It would seem hard to deny she self-sabotaged, sabotaged her engagement. Maybe she got cold feet about marriage, as she said. Maybe, with his surprise romantic proposal, she'd got what she always wanted--and found out that ... things were the same? She wasn't happier? She could feel freer to explore her feelings, express her sexuality, with presumptive marriage as a safety net? Who knows? Both partners fail to hold to promises and commitments and generate drama. The LW is clearly in a bad place, a self-distrusting place (as of her writing the letter) and I feel for her. Nearly ten years later I hope she has gone on to other happy relationships (or to a fulfilling marriage).

People are far harder on the LW than I'd be. Her difficulties start when a situation is sprung on her: her fiancé reads her journal. Her response--'I'll never see my crush again'--is instinctive; but not something she can keep to. She would have done better to say e.g. 'I'll reaffirm my monogamous commitment to you, but there's no reason I can't see X.' And maybe 'this marriage thing is a bigger deal psychologically than I thought--let's lengthen the engagement'. Possibly an attentive Savage-reader could have come up with that--but she's bounced. She's in her early 30s--I'm sure I made comparable mistakes in my early 30s....

Lots of people profess adherence to Dan Savage's beliefs without understanding too much about them. This is because the salient features of the Savage worldview, in their contexts, are:

1) He's not a homophobe;
2) He's not a misogynist. In particular, he doesn't scoff at ideas that in certain contexts would be understood as feminine or feminised e.g. 'you should talk about your feelings';
3) He's anti- intolerant forms of religion;
4) He grants that people are complicated.

The idea that an engaged het woman in a deep-red state should consider shifting her relationship to monogamishness ... no, this is no part of what a lot of the readership/listenership would understand as an affiliation to the ideas of the column.

blah blah blah break up

I admit I couldn't bear to read to the end, but...

"...you aren't supposed to have strong feelings for two men at the same time..."

Where is it written?

"Can you have strong feelings for two people at once?"

You already know the answer from experience. (As do I.)

Maybe ethical non-monogamy or polyamory would work for you; try reading something like "More than Two" and "Opening Up".

LW I hate to be harsh but you two sound made for each other, similarly clueless on monogamy and jealousy. Your entire letter reminds me of "Sixteen Going on Seventeen" from the Sound of Music:*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxk_dDM_Bq4

Except you are both in your 30s! And you are a regular listener to the Lovecast. OMG. Why are you still thinking true love means never having feelings for anyone else?

*Just looked at the lyrics. OMFG that is one patriarchal song full of malarkey.

Admittedly letters like this one, along with few others we had here recently, feel my breast forms with joy.
After all I’m not such a horrible loser as I sometimes think I am, my low self-esteem has plenty of room to further sink down, and despite not participating in any threesomes and beyond on a regular basis I still get to clean kitchens on occasion.

ooohh fill

Yeah... there's a ton of "but how can I control my feeeeeeeelings" in this, when this really is about her actions. She decided to write a bunch of mushy stuff down in her journal (given her later blabbermouth habits, I'm guessing she fully intended him to read it), lie to her fiance about how she didn't actually have feelings for this guy, refuse to stop speaking to him, then go suck face with her crush (given the quick progression from 'crush' to 'tongue hockey' I'm guessing there was some steamy ish in that journal), then tell her fiance about it, agree not to see the crush, go back on her word and kiss the crush, AND THEN again decide to tell now-hubby about it.

She chose to lie. She chose to kiss another guy - twice! She chose to go back on her word. She chose to throw it in her fiance's face. Those aren't feelings - those are actions.

Get your shit together LW, and either go poly or stop smooching other people - but stop acting like you aren't responsible for your actions.

CMD @25, I like your #24 better with the typo.

Traffic @26, Nailed it!

I think you expressed this best. All the BS about feelings is a way of avoiding the fact that she chose to do the things she did.

It's taken me so long to log in on my phone, I have forgotten what the story was.

I'm sorry I can't comment on this early 21st century problem, from 10 years later, using 20th century software.

I'll be back when the boomers are dead. Or in a week or two.

dcp @ 27- apparently same here, they do feel great.

I would seriously suggest LW to check out some SLLA 12-step meeting. Just go and listen to what others have to say, I suspect some will resonate and may also help you put things in perspective.

Dan and the experts may deny there are such things as sex and love addictions. Granted, those 12-step rooms are not for everyone, it took me few months of weekly meetings to feel like I’m getting something out of it. I still think they should be mentioned as one of the options, as well as other kinds of meetings that could be helpful.

"He read my journal (another issue entirely)."

Can I hear about that one? I'm bored with the other.
Seriously. I want to know why what she did makes her into such a horrible person, but what he did is perfectly okay. First he violated her privacy. Then he asked what she was thinking and got upset when she told him. (Had to know what she was THINKING!) Then he does the we're broken up/no we're not/I'll just toy with your emotions and have sex with you thing which is, to me, even worse than the journal reading thing.

I also want to know where Crush is. He sounds nice.

(And many thanks to Dan for #8 and @11 and @12. I'll be chuckling all day.)

Yes delta@23, Rogers and Hammerstein were men of their time. Sexist as fuck. Inspired
story telling musical skills as well.
One can understand why in the sixties, some women exploded with rage.

LW might not be a horrible person, but I wouldn't trust her to boil water unsupervised. What a pity it wasn't a Covenant Marriage.

@delta @23: points for 'malarkey.'

Cmd @24 I also enjoyed your slip!

Argh, I sympathize because I was a late bloomer in getting a handle on some of the relevant concepts, but how can you be 32 and not understand that crushes are things you can choose not to act on? I wasn't much younger when I experienced similar confusion and mishandled a crush on a friend during a doomed relationship, so I guess it's a matter of (in)experience. But it still boggles my mind, looking back on it and just reading this letter. I also really hope LW would cringe upon reading this now.

Yes, no, no, yes, yes, yes, no, no, the problem isn't one of believing your feelings or not but one of believing a bunch of cultural myths about how feelings are supposed to work insted of the reality of how they do (which you know from experience), you're mistaking the signifier for the signified - your feelings are whatever they are irrespective of the labels our culture uses to describe them (it sounds like you're not necessarily cognizant of your emotional state, thoughts, desires, etc., so perhaps you'd benefit from "mindfulness" exercises; I get nothing out of them, because my thoughts and feelings and physical state are generally not a mystery to me, but you sound like the sort of person for whom they were designed), yes, and only until you can develop better self awareness and deprogram some of the bullshit you've absorbed about how feelings and relationships should work. Good luck!

Ah, shit, rerun; serves me right for commenting vefore I read the whole thing.

CMD@24 another vote for the typo post. From now on when I come across the phrase “fills my heart with joy” or variations thereof, I will mentally insert “feel my breast forms.” Because THAT mental image is way better! 😂 feels happy, so feels self up a little