Woman Finds Evidence She Isn't Her Boyfriend's Type (And Why That Shouldn't Be a Problem)

Comments

1

Yup. Two totally unrelated things. 1) my boyfriend is attracted to people who don't look like me and it makes me doubt everything. Solution...get over yourself. 2) my boyfriend and I aren't sexually compatible. Solution... get over your boyfriend.

2

life is too short to make up excuses for not having sex. Run now and ask questions later.

Next boyfriend you get have him take some pictures of you that you feel are sexy (with your clothes on) and have him put them on his phone proudly.

Because I could forgive looking at SG girls if he had me center stage. He didn't though so move on.

3

Yes to Dan and yes to comments @1 and @2. Nothing wrong with this except for when there is, and this is one of those times.

4

I never thought one had to 'dress sexy' to be sexy. It's an open question---how much to flaunt your sexuality in everyday life....and how to flaunt it.

6

i mean if you're always just wearing baggy clothes and putting bare minimum effort into how you present yourself then sometimes it's hard to be motivated for sex with someone that is showing almost no motivation to show themselves off. maybe he is just more attracted to girls with lots of make up on. if you know sex is never going to be treated as an event then you look at it like a chore sometimes.

7

Well, 5, it's not my usual costume but it has happened to me....
(also, have you watched Kate McKinnon on Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee?)

9

Didn't see a reference to how long they have been together, and living together - have things changed over time? Two bisexuals in a monogamous relationship necessarily need to be sensitive to each other's proclivities. Also - how old are these two? Also might make a difference... Otherwise, I agree this seems destined to end (perhaps badly).

10

News flash: this guy isn't dating a new type of woman - she's as much a Suicide Girl as the women on his Instagram. It's not really about the tattoos and piercings, it's about visible rejection of the Barbie as the idealized sexual woman. And LW does just that, and has an anxiety laden personality that world for right in to the suicide girl motif as well.

11

I count four (five?) separate issues.

1) The boyfriend has a type he likes to look at online and it's nothing like the LW. This is not actually a problem. I've discovered I love to look at extremely athletic and talented and fun young male ballet dancers, and while I'd find them hot in real life too, it's not the type I've usually gone for and - at this age- wouldn't even if I had the option. But I like to look at them. Dan answers this part well.

2) The boyfriend wants sex less than the LW. This is a real problem. Unlike Daddy, I don't think it has jack shit to do with her baggy clothes. LW does not have a history of sexless relationships, but her BF does. I suppose she could ask him about it and see if he'd like her to dress up from time to time which seems reasonable (we all should put in a little effort every once in a while) but they are both young and childless, right? (assumption but all words indicate so). Why in god's name should she change her own habits to make a guy interested in her sexually when there are no doubt plenty of guys out there who would think her the bee's knees? Solutions could include stepping out of the relationship as she suggested (which would maybe work for both of them, both being bi so it would be easier than with a het couple) or just breaking up and finding someone more compatible. If you have to work to make someone want to have sex with you early on, then that does not bode well for a long term relationship.

3) His response re: cute cats is stupid, and his statements about empowerment is even more stupid. Either he really believes the stupid shit he's saying to you or (far more likely) it's some excuse he made up because he was "dumbfounded" that the LW would have a problem with him looking at girls online in the first place and just randomly said the first thing that popped into his mind in a mad attempt to make her feel less insecure. Either way, seems a bad dynamic. Of course the truth is that he just finds these other women hot for a variety of reasons that he shouldn't be expected to put into words and there's no way to tell the LW that without her feeling insecure about it and it's the LW's fault for putting him on the spot in the first place. In any case, I'd say this is also not actually a problem. Just give him some privacy and let him look at what he wants.

4) He deleted his IG so that the LW would be happy. Like the sexual incompatibility, this is actually a real problem too. Either he felt shamed or bullied into doing it, if he did it to make her happy then either she asked him to or else he feels responsible for her happiness and insecurities- in either case, it's a bad dynamic. LW ought to have a long think about boundaries and privacy.

5) Here's my maybe issue. LW ends with saying she's ready to look outside her relationship for sex, but she's simultaneously the sort of person who is insecure by her BF looking at pictures of other girls who don't look like her. So is she expecting a hall pass but he must remain chaste? Or is she going to miraculously recover from the insecurity of him being attracted to people unlike her, some of whom will even be so different from her as to have penises?

In short, I disagree with people who say move on. Assuming (again) that these two people are childless and young, I suggest they use this as an opportunity to discuss their sexual interests and sensitivities honestly (none of this "why do you like people who don't look like me" bullshit, and also none of this "it's like looking at cats who are empowered when I call them pussy" bullshit either)- what they like and what they want- and see if they can open up their relationship and become more sexually adventuresome together.

12

Possibly part of the reason she's upset he's looking at these women on IG is because he has time and energy to scroll through these and comment, but not for what she considers sufficient sex. I can see where that would grate.

@8 I don't see why she should have to change how she dresses just to please a man. Making an effort now and again to spice things up, sure, but none of this wearing sexy shoes all the time business if it's not her thing. No man is worth foot pain every day.

13

Just got to come back to this Daddy:

"Like a lot of guys, he's turned on by women who tart themselves up a bit with sexy outfits and adornments. She, on the other hand, only rarely presents herself as sexy."

While this is true, it does not account for him rejecting sex with her. If he is not attracted to her to the extent that he rejects sex with her because she wears baggy clothes, then there is nothing she can do about that and they need to break up. Honestly telling her to dress up to make him find sexual interest in her again is terrible advice and will lead to a long term unhealthy dynamic. I have never known a man who was sexually interested in his partner who- for no other reason- chose not to have sex because she was wearing baggy clothes. And while someone who is not attracted to you might be convinced to have sex with you anyway or find you attractive because of some novel thing you do, that is not a good basis for long term sexual health.

Your anecdote is also irrelevant unless you are saying that your GF's shoe choices made you lose attraction to her before- that you were not interested in sex with her b/c of her shoes. It's normal and good for people who like to fuck each other to do things for one another to spice things up (like her shoes turn you on so she wears them) but you have to start with sexual attraction in the first place.

It's possible he is not attracted to her, in which case they should break up.

It's also possible that he just has a lower sex drive than her- and there is actual evidence for this since he spent three years in a sexless relationship while the LW had sexual relationships with people who thought she was the bee's knees (what's the common denominator here?). You dismiss this possibility of a libido mismatch as less likely why?

Because as a woman who fucks men, I can tell you that men almost never reject sex with someone they find attractive because they aren't dressed sexy regardless of what they might prefer especially when they are young and childfree. If they reject sex with a woman they find attractive, there is almost always another reason - the least likely explanation is "she wears baggy clothes". That he has a lower libido in the first place (and is satisfied by what he accepts already) is much more likely though it's possible also that he's not that attracted to her in which case the clothes change might give a brief surge but then fade as well after a few goes at it.

14

EmmaLiz, what can I tell you? Motorcycle cap and he calls himself 'Dadddy.' I'm sure he has a type, and 'ordinary instagram girl' aint' it.

15

DTMFA. I won't even call your insecurities baseless because, while they follow a common pattern of baseless insecurities, they had a basis in this case, which is our only example case. So, your intuition was serving you well - he's not into you. Break up and date someone like all of your past boyfriends who were into baggy clothes and no makeup (that happens to be my preference for women I date, and it's almost impossible to find people like you, especially on dating sites or singles bars, because women there are generally aiming to attract the broadest range of potential mates, which means they tend overwhelmingly to replicate normative attractiveness markers for women - makeup, "sexy" clothes, etc. - even when it's not what they actually prefer; present yourself as you like, and you instantly become a unicorn for the niche crowd that's into your look).

16

When I was in college, I was jeans and flannel during the day but if I had a date with a guy in the evening, I made an effort to dress better, even going out and buying new outfits for the occasion. After college I lost interest in the whole clothes thing, preferring my jeans and a tee-shirt or a polo shirt if I wanted to really dress up. By my 40s, I got more and more into the sweat pants-tee shirt look. It's comfortable. Also, I've generally found guys dressed like that very sexy. Clothes wrinkled, no problem. However, just because I like that look doesn't mean I'm not turned on by handsome men in bespoke suits and tuxedos! A lot! Even the business man look can be a turn-on. What I'm trying to say is that a preference for one look doesn't negate interest in the other. But, where I may differ from the letter writer, Is that I wouldn't hesitate to dress better for a date or social occasion, and if I loved the other person, do it now and then as a surprise. Not because it was demanded or from feelings of pressure, but from a place of love, because it shows the other that they're worth the extra effort.

As for the sex thing, it does sound like he may have a lower libido than she does, which is a real problem (have been there as the higher libido dating a lower libido person, it's an important issue that has to be addressed for the happiness of both people involved). It's time for them to start having an honest discussion of their needs and desires. If the problems can't be resolved, maybe they can at least walk away from the relationship as friends instead of splitting with unresolved resentment for each other.

17

Sportlandia @10: good call.

18

First, stop trying to make yourself crazy by looking through what he views online. In the same way that liking porn of something does not automatically translate to wanting to do it in real life, he may very well like to look at the Suicide Girl type but isn't really all about dating them (anymore).

But beyond that, he seems like he has a lower libido, but if he spends time looking at the SG-style pics online, he may be enticed to meet you in the middle sexually with a little work on your part. If "presenting sexy" can get you laid, that sounds like a good compromise (you get sexy, he gives it up more often). If that's something you're unwilling to do (which, from your letter, I get the impression is the case), then just end it. Because you already want to.

And that's the main thing I got from this letter. It seems like you are trying to torpedo this relationship because you're not feeling fulfilled sexually, and probably not just from the low libido thing. The references to both of your bisexuality (when it wasn't exactly relevant to your problem, or at all if you're monogamous), the "looking outside" comments... you want sex with other people. And unlike Dan's suggestion, I think opening up the relationship would be more likely to help the cause of your letter. Because I think the insecurities are a red herring, and if you can get your sexy on with ladies and gentlemen to your heart's content, your boyfriend looking at tattooed chicks on IG will not be an issue at all.

So basically, open it up or end it. Because you'll sabotage it anyway if you do neither.

19

@15 As that type of woman, it's nice being reminded that guys like you exist.

20

"Only neurotic, self-absorbed men have 'types'. The rest of us take what we can get."
Raymond Chandler (or Dashiel Hammett, I always get those two mixed up).

21

@nightscrawl, there are more of us. I can't remember the last time I was with a woman who wore makeup.

22

And yes, that IS an ironic juxtaposition, tyvm.

23

I'm sure there are guys who need their girlfriends to dress sexy. But I assume most guys understand that their girlfriends might "dress up" (which could be considered sexy depending on where the couple is going and what dressing up might mean in that context). And then I assume most rationale guys could care less about their girlfriends looking sexy when the gfs go to work, go to the store, change the oil in the car, take the dog for a walk, etc. Instead, these guys want their girlfriends to be sexy when it's time to have sex. Also, he knows what's under the baggy t-shirt and baggy jeans. If he is turned on by your body don't worry about the IG suicide girl. I need some kind of function key that let's me paste what I've posted a million times: I think most people look at porn (I know IG isn't porn but seems to be serving a similar purpose given the LW's description) that do not reflect their everyday lives. With all that said, low sex drive probably doesn't get better so move on while you can. As the year's pass, more excuses will emerge to not move on and the LW will regret sticking with this fool.

24

Oh Mr D, telling a woman what shoes to wear. How very last century of you.

25

And when is the stranger going to add an edit button so I can fix all the stupid typos that I never seem to catch when I'm typing?

26

Dan, I didn't understand this: "(Already looking outside your monogamous relationship for sexual interactions? Another sign you should end it.)" "Already" how? This is not a brand new relationship; she didn't say how long they've been together but they live together, so it must be some time. I'm very surprised to hear someone monogamish suggest that wanting other partners means a relationship is doomed, if that is what Dan meant. Opening a relationship is a common solution to mismatched libido issues; Dan's often suggested it can save relationships, not that it's a sign one should end them. Nevertheless, the combination of him not showing her he wants her and showing her he does want women who aren't like her has got to hurt. The point is, she's unhappy with their sex life and she's feeling rejected, so does she want to open the relationship or leave it? There is the question.

(I'd also hesitate to lump BF in with the disgusting commenters. Some men are able to respectfully "like" and comment on sexy Instagram photos. If he's posting lustful comments yet ignoring YVOIG, that's a very bad sign.)

27

@15 thank you, a voice of reason amongst the rabble

28

Dadddy @8: "If BF shows less interest in sex than GF, the problem is more likely that she doesn't turn him on rather than a libido mismatch." Except that he had an ex with whom he only had sex 10 times in three years, and that was tolerable for him. Occam's razor says this guy is just not much of a horndog.

Victorian @12: "No man is worth foot pain every day." Amen. How about, date people whose style you like, don't date people whose style you don't like and try to change them? Revolutionary, I know.

John @15, yes, bless you! And I agree -- men want what's underneath the clothes. I have met very few who are turned off by women not "dressing sexy." We tart up to feel more confident. I, too, am drawn to women who can go out without makeup or a fancy outfit because they're just that confident that they don't need to embellish themselves. I wish I was that confident! Sure, it's also nice to show a partner you've made a bit of an extra effort for them. Perhaps Mr YVOIG is attracted to the heavily made-up and tattooed look, but discovered that in real life these women are just too insecure and high-maintenance, which is why he went for someone like YVOIG in real life. It's like a middle-aged person who is still attracted to people in their early 20s but dates age-appropriately since they know the young people are nothing but drama.

29

If she does want to stay and try to improve their sex life, I would look at the suicide girls as a red herring and pick apart his excuse -- he's always tired. Is he working two jobs? Is this a health thing? Improving his diet might increase his energy levels. Or is her timing off? Is she waiting until they're in bed to initiate sex? If his libido is low or he's overworked/stressed, he might not even be thinking about sex and then when he's in bed he's ready for sleep. Initiate a quickie while dinner is in the oven, or in the morning, or some afternoon delight instead. Or, as people have said, slip on some sexy lingerie to drop the hint. That doesn't mean you need to change your style day to day. Another question is how long sex takes and how much of the work he's expected to be contributing. Does sex typically involve elaborate bondage or role-play scenarios which he's expected to lead? What about quicker, less intensive sex sessions, even masturbating together? This is probably unlikely to solve a big libido mismatch, but could help. As could -- since you're both bisexual -- opening the relationship to same-sex partners, which he might find more palatable than making it fully open. Also, YVOIG, you need to take his "positive comments about the way you look" at face value. I get it -- it's the double whammy of not being desired plus his ogling habits, that's going to be hard to get past. Deleting his Instagram isn't the answer though. Good luck.

30

EmmaLiz @11: Yeah, there's a lot of malicious compliance in the "I deleted it even though you didn't ask me to and there's nothing wrong with it" thing. That and the "I'm empowering women by leaving thirst comments" bit tell me this is a Nice Guy of the highest order and she should probably bounce.

31

Mr D @8, I think you’re having us on, right?
To jump on a site with many feminists on board, and boast about shaming your gf into wearing shoes to suit you.. is otherwise, not a very bright move.
Sex appeal emanates from the inside out. You ever notice how men dress, most of the time. Jeans and t shirts. We women can see the sex thru the clothes. You blind or something? A woman getting all dressed and made up, if she’s doing it for herself, sure. Fine. If she’s doing it for you the man, then watch her sex flame go out.
Because controlling and containing others is a quick way to extinguishing their ‘otherness.’
God man, you’ve still got so far to go.
All good.
Nothing like a solid challenge.

32

I see the LW as being in what I call a Bi-Polar relationship. In BPRs, you're either having sex or you're not - there are no intimate moments in between. For LL individuals who are in a BPR, On Demand Sex becomes a chore or duty to perform which can lead to resentment.

The best way to kill a BPR is by transforming it into a a loving, dynamic relationship. You do this by creating many moments of intimacy that ultimately result in hot, heavy sex. Moments of intimacy are created by doing many of the things you used to do when you first started dating. Flirting, teasing, making out & feeling each other up are just a few of the things you can do to build up anticipation & desire in a relationship. Another benefit of creating moments of intimacy is that it can lessen the possibility that your LL partner will perceive sex as being a chore.

IMHO, the LW should reexamine her relationship with her bf in light of the above information before deciding to move on with her life.

33

Lava @31, indeed. Dadddy, tell us with a straight face that before your girlfriend bought the sexy shoes, you didn't want to have sex with her, and that after she bought them, you did want to have sex with her. Ha. You wanted to have sex with her no matter what shoes she had on, didn't you, because you're a horny guy. You didn't see her in her sensible shoes and make up some excuse about being tired. No, blaming YVOIG for her boyfriend's low sex drive by telling her she's not tarty enough isn't going to solve the problem. If Mr YVOIG wasn't attracted to her, he wouldn't/shouldn't have been dating her in the first place. There are low libido men out there, believe it or not, and it sounds like Mr YVOIG is one of them.

34

All this talk about dumping the guy to find another guy that likes her. Like she needs to be validated by a man.
She said she is Bi so go date women and possibly dump all the dumb, "men don't find me sexy" and all this comparing ones self to fucking gross instagram ideals crap.
go live, DTMFA!

37

No amount of backtracking will erase what we read, Mr D.

38

Dadddy @35, it probably would have gone over better if you'd told us how you changed the way YOU dress to please her. Also why do you think women who wear baggy clothes are "hiding" as opposed to just being comfortable? Sore feet do not make me feel sexy. This woman has not "lost touch with her sexiness" -- on the contrary, it sounds as if her boyfriend is the one who's not feeling the mojo anymore, if he ever did. (But a low drive is not a "mental issue" any more than a woman's being tall is a "disability". Woooow.)

And hello, she's not describing herself as attractive because she doesn't feel attractive, due to her boyfriend's lack of interest, not because she isn't attractive. If she DID describe herself as attractive, commenters would attack her for being full of herself. If she thought of herself as attractive, she wouldn't be feeling insecure and, drum roll, she wouldn't have written a letter like this one! She'd just say, "hmm, my boyfriend has a different type than me and isn't interested in sex with me, I guess we're a bad match" and move on, no need for a letter.

39

@28 BiDanFan
"...men want what's underneath the clothes. I have met very few who are turned off by women not "dressing sexy.""

That's definitely me. The only clothes that do something for me are no clothes.

40

With you -B- @34, the whole ‘look at me, look at me’ air head brigade. Men who want their women like the Jenner girls and their ilk. Here’s a tip boys. Those women are playing you all the way to the bank, past the zillion mirrors they gaze into on the way.
LW, why do you want to stay with this twerp, lusting after pictures of unattainable women, who yes, look nothing like you. Turf this tool. Don’t even think about changing who you are.
I stopped shaving any body parts and barely touch my eyebrows, from my early twenties. Us feminists did that then, and I never went back.
Wore jeans and skirts and waist coats and tie and whatever the fuck I wanted to wear. And still do. Shoes. My good NZ made short boots mostly, because I walk a lot. Or sandals in the summer. Never ever wear heels. Lipstick is a must.
How one dresses, how one chooses an item is an expression of oneself. Don’t let others tell you what that expression should be. Not their business.
My mother, may she RIP, tried to tell me what to wear, I never let a man start that up. And none have ever tried.

41

I'm not a big social media user, I never tried anything other than Myspace. Do women want to date someone that thinks supporting a woman is saying the things the LW'ers boy friend does?

42

Statistically that might be true, Daddy, but statistically most men wouldn't stay in a 3 year relationship that had been sexless from the start. A lot might find themselves in a relationship like that down the road, but this dude already has a history of being in a sexless relationship. Now he's in a relationship with the potential for more sex in which he declines, saying he's too tired.

And she has already said she's very sexual, wanting to look for sex outside of the relationship since she's hornier than he can supply, and she has a history of having relationships with satisfying sex. So... the statistics only matter if you are willing to overlook everything that is actually said and instead apply stereotypes. Which is what you are doing.

As for the shoes / dressing up, etc- are you honestly overlooking the difference between being attracted to someone + preferring them to dress up vs not being attracted to someone + them dressing up and it makes you give them a go anyway. If he's not attracted to her, they should not be together.

43

As someone who sees a good many octogenarians and nonagenarians on a regular basis and can give direct testimony on the consequences of poor choices, I cannot advise people too strongly to base their shoe selections on more than primarily fashion. One of my bridge players yesterday, usually expensively dressed, is 93, still walking unassisted, and able to wear modest heels that suit her outfits. I have also seen people who have turned their feet into what resembles a dogleg golf hole. By all means make an informed choice; just be fully informed.

44

"we have mismatched sex drives" + "he has a history of homosexuality"....just putting it out there, but maybe he's a bit more gay than bi...

46

Dashing @41, no, but YVOIG did not say that her boyfriend is leaving those sorts of comments. She said "he thinks he's actually supporting these women because they feel empowered by ALL THE MEN leaving comments like "show me your boobs" and "I wanna shove my cock in you" on their posts." There are also men who don't leave comments like that, and we don't know which Mr YVOIG is. I read this sentence as a comment on Instagram culture. I think if she had caught HIM leaving objectifying comments, she'd have said so.

Dadddy @45, well, if dressing the way you like attracts men who think vanilla sex is boring, the system is working, I guess. I'll keep wearing shoes that don't hurt and not having to endure being held down and slapped around when I'm trying to have a good time.

47

While it's a truism that men (and women) are interested in what's beneath the clothes, I don't think it follows that clothes are irrelevant. How one dresses is part of one's body language, and not being consciously aware of how you're reacting to other people's clothing choices doesn't mean you're not taking them into consideration.

48

@Lava: About 10 years I was walking down a sidewalk, and the person walking next to me happened to be a young woman who was reading her boyfriend the riot act over her cell phone about what he would and would not wear if he wanted to have sex with her.

If it's OK for women to do that to men, why is it outrageous for men to want their female partners to wear what they find attractive? I mean, hopefully when you were dating you picked someone who generally likes wearing what you like your partner to wear. And there's no harm and no foul in dumping someone who's incompatible with you that way. But I don't see how it's an outrageous ask.

I don't see how Dadddy's being unreasonable. He pays attention to what his partner likes, and takes it into account when he chooses how to dress. His partner pays attention to what he likes, and takes it into account when she chooses how to dress. If I were in a relationship, I'd do that too. It just seems like good practice to me.

I have no idea what a "suicide girl" is, and I don't think I want to know, but if I had a boyfriend who was constantly looking at quasi-porn of suicide girls I'd consider bringing suicide girl looks into our sex life in some way to be part of the price of admission of a relationship with him (regardless of his ritual denial). I might decide to break up with him over it because incompatibility. But I wouldn't try to keep the relationship going without doing that.

49

Old Crow @47: Oh, certainly. That's why it's better to dress the way YOU want to dress, the way you feel expresses YOU. Otherwise it's false advertising, isn't it? And you're just going to end up dating people who aren't really compatible with you, which seems a waste of time.

Doesn't always work, though, I guess. Ms Dadddy might have been trying to scare men like him off with her sensible shoes, but he dated her anyway.

Old Crow @48: It wasn't OK for her to be doing that to him! I think if he wrote in, we'd all tell him to DT controlling MF already. It's not outrageous to -want- your partners to dress in a certain way, but it is outrageous to instruct them on how to dress. It sounds like Dadddy dropped a hint, which is fine, and left the final footwear decision to his girlfriend, who could have reasoned that her bunions meant that she wasn't going to wear high heels anywhere but the bedroom. I'd like my toyboy to wear a dress shirt sometimes, since he looks nice in them, but the only time I've ever asked him to was when I was taking him somewhere upscale for his birthday. It's not Dadddy's dropping a hint about shoes, but his general attitude toward the way women choose to dress that's problematic.
FYI, "suicide girls" are alternative/metal women who are covered in tattoos, so not a reasonable ask for someone who does not sport that look.

50

@48; who says it’s ok for a woman to behave like that, old crow? That man should have told her where to go. If a man doesn’t like how a woman dresses or vice versa, then don’t date them.
I sure wouldn’t get with a man like Mr D, who thinks wearing his polyester brown suit is sexy.

51

@45 Dady
"...feel gratitude just to be humping the leg of a human female (@39..."

Aw, bitter mean dumb little biker-hat chipmunk, envious that I'm attracted to women when you always need costumes?

52

p.s.
Nice try, trolly, to try to insult me without my noticing it by using the comment number but not my username.

53

There's a middle ground between dressing solely for oneself and being true to one's own blend of style and comfort and practicality or whimsy, and dressing completely for someone else--whether that someone else is an established partner who has expressed a preference for a look that is different from one's ordinary chosen look, or a hypothetical someone special (i.e. when one is aiming to look attractive to unknown people, in the hopes of acquiring a partner--for the night or a lifetime or something in between).

There are all sorts of circumstances that dictate different sartorial choices: the industry one works in and what is considered appropriate clothing for work (which differs widely, depending on all kinds of factors); running errands/doing chores; the recreational activities one chooses; events like going to the theater, or the symphony, or a wedding, a baseball game, a shoreline cleanup; a funeral; Thanksgiving dinner with the extended family.

I think most people have a sense of self-presentation that they want to stick to, but move around a bit within that, to suit the circumstances. Even women who don't typically wear heels might have a pair they put on for certain events; even men who balk at ties might own a couple that get worn at job interviews or christenings. And I think it's perfectly alright to dress in a way that one knows pleases one's partner, so long as that doesn't feel untrue to oneself, or isn't too uncomfortable. Or maybe only occasionally.

I know Dadddy likes to present as a chauvinist pig to get a rise out of people, but he's basically described a relationship with his girlfriend in which both partners have their own sense of self-presentation and they also accommodate each other when it seems to matter to the other person and isn't too difficult. Dadddy's gf prefers shoes Dadddy doesn't find sexy; yet he obviously finds her sexy no matter what footwear she sports. He was attracted to her despite her shoes, and he has the ability to see past her shoes to the woman he finds attractive (the shoes probably aren't on when they're having sex, either). But he has a preference, and when he pointed some shoes out to her that he prefers, she wore them for his sake (I assume not every day, and I assume that she doesn't find them either too uncomfortable or too much a betrayal of her own sense of personal style). He tried out a look he likes (a biker mustache), but his girlfriend made her objection to that look clear after he ran it by her for her to approve, and he isn't growing one. This is compromise and being willing or even happy to accommodate your partner's preference, while not being told what to wear or how to look. That is healthy and mature.

I once had a boyfriend who had to dress in slacks and collared, button down shirts for work (I love dress shirts; not a fan of slacks). He couldn't wear the jeans I preferred him in, if we had a mid-week lunch date, for example, but he knew I liked the way he looked in a pink shirt, and I suddenly noticed that every time we met during the work week, he was wearing a pink dress shirt (it turned out that, knowing I thought he looked sexy in that color, he'd gone and bought 2 more pink dress shirts), but I would never have dreamed of insisting that he wear a pink shirt every time I saw him.

He had a preference for me in high heels. I tried to accommodate him as much as I could, without impracticality or pain. It turned out that if I only wore the stilettos during sex, he was more than happy, and since that meant I didn't have to walk while wearing them, we were able to arrive at a happy compromise which directly benefitted me, in the form of great sex--and the feedback loop of knowing he was turned on by my footwear meant that I became motivated to find heels that were comfortable. I love the look of high heels, and though I wouldn't want to wear them every day for every activity, I can't wear them as often as I'd like if I let pure style dictate my footwear choices because my feet would hurt and I'd twist my ankles too often. But I can easily wear them for an occasional night at the opera or a fancy dinner, and I can certainly wear them with something equally femme-sexy, like a corset or stockings and garter belt or some other lingerie or nothing else at all, while we're in the bedroom. So that's what I did and that worked for us.

Bottom line: one should present oneself in whatever way one feels is truest to oneself, but be willing, at least on occasion, to accommodate one's partner when it matters to the partner and as long as the accommodation isn't offensive in some way. And one should not go into a relationship with someone if one isn't able to appreciate (or at least not mind) the way that person was presenting themself when the two first met.

54

Old Crow- I gotta laugh at the implication that since you heard a woman bitching at a guy over the phone about something once, then female posters here are saying that it's alright for women to do this thing, therefore when female posters here say it's not a great idea for the LW to change the way she dresses to get her bf who is not attracted to her to have sex with her, then there must be a massive double standard in how the universe works.

I mean...

To spell it out for you and Daddy in simpler words:

If the problem is that he is not attracted to her, then they shouldn't be together. Expecting her to change her clothes and habits just so that he will start being attracted to her is a) a ton of work on her part that really isn't necessary since there is no reason she can't just be with someone who finds her attractive, and b) not likely to work since if he's unattracted to her in the first place, then changing her clothing is just going to add a novel thrill.

This is not the same thing as saying that people who are attracted to each other shouldn't dress up for one another from time to time or wear things that enhance their partners' sexualities from time to time, which no one argued with in the first place.

55

Dad @35 - They aren't "hiding" in baggy clothes, they are wearing them. You are literally defining a woman's wardrobe by its relation to the male gaze. Astounding...

56

I mean I don't even agree with Daddy's assessment that the man doesn't find her attractive- I think it's far more likely to be true what she says- that he has a lower libido. He is the one with a history of sexless relationships, not her.

But if Daddy is correct that he doesn't find her attractive, then I think it's terrible advice that she should try to change this- it's not healthy to be with someone who does not find you attractive and will only fuck you if you do whatever X, Y, Z thing to make yourself attractive to him.

Daddy is not saying "hey sometimes you should dress up to indulge his fantasies / go out on date night / play into his fetish"- he's saying that women who wear baggy clothes are hiding their bodies (because he can't conceive of the fact that I don't think of my body as something to be seen nor something to be hidden but just rather the flesh and blood that I exist in) and of course, there's his bias again that any one who likes vanilla sex (which the LW did not say btw) must be boring and not nearly as superior or interesting as him.

The woman mentioned all these things because she's insecure. She feels threatened by women on Instagram, she's with a guy who is often to tired to fuck her, she wonders if there is something wrong with her- maybe it's how she dresses. It's terrible advice to say "yes, he is not attracted to you, change how you dress and maybe you can convince him to fuck you more" that is a path that will never end. And the bf does not sound like he's being manipulative- he sounds as insecure as her or else he wouldn't make up stupid excuses for looking at IG girls and he wouldn't delete his account to please her. Either these people aren't sexually compatible, or they are and need to have a long chat about their insecurities and their boundaries. If that includes a date night where they dress up to remind each other how hot they are or if it includes adding some lingerie time to time in the bedroom, great. But that's totally different than just telling someone to tart herself up so her bofyriend will fuck her despite not finding her attractive.

I can't believe some of these conversations are real.

57

@EmmaLiz: All good points. I guess I got sidetracked.

58

If this woman had written in saying "I'm having trouble finding dates. I approach men and I'm rejected all the time. I get no attention from anyone and I'm lonely. I also wear sweat pants all the time" then I think how she dresses/looks would be one of things we'd tell her to consider changing- among others. (The standard advice- get engaged in stuff where you meet people, work on non verbal cues, ask a trusted friend for feedback and listen, etc).

But this isn't. This is a woman who has had past sexually satisfying relationships and who is considering opening her relationship as a solution to the fact that she wants sex more than her boyfriend who does have a history of being in long term sexless relationships and who says he's too tired for sex with her. So the baggy clothes is a red herring. The hot mess here is the insecurities and privacy violations and stupid excuses. This could include sexual incompatibility. It could include lack of attraction. But it's not something you fix by dressing up like a suicide girl- something that would be a ton of work and very expensive by the way and not something most women could pull off anyway. However, the thing I keep mentioning- it also probably wouldn't work. Let's say she wanted to spend hours and hours and a couple hundred dollars on hair cuts and clothing and make up and dolled herself up like a suicide girl. Would it make her bf suddenly want to fuck her more? Well let's look at past evidence- he was in a relationship with a suicide girl once before for three god damn years and they only fucked like once every four months. Who does that? Not someone with a high sex drive.

59

@EmmaLiz: I just went waaaay back to an old, dead thread, and saw your comment:

"Note the difference between exhibit A:

What do you mean by X? I could interpret it as meaning Y. This makes me feel Z.

And exhibit B:

You say X. What you really mean is Y. I think you might think that I mean Z when I say Y but I actually mean Z and I'm sure you mean X. Now I'm going to list the reasons you think I mean Z when I say Y and why I know that you are wrong. I'm pretty sure you will respond by saying A, B and C to which I respond with D, E, and F. If we still have any disagreement on this matter, I suggest you reflect on your own bias by saying things that demonstrate you mean Y even though you think you just mean X."

And I have to tell you how much I loved it.

61

Except Daddy in my first post and most subsequent I have agreed that it's normal and healthy for couples to dress up for one another from time to time and to indulge each other's preferences.

What I object to is a) your assertion that he doesn't find her attractive being the most likely explanation, and b) your suggestion that a person should stay with someone who does not find them attractive in the first place by dressing up and changing themselves in a way that makes them attractive, and c) your implication that anyone who disagrees with your preferences is cold, boring, scolding, etc.

Of course you will not hear this because you want to stir up shit. Which is a shame because when you offer anecdotes instead it's usually interesting and a good contribution.

BTW I think the description of yourself as adolescent in this regard is very apt. You assume you are more interesting and better than those boring old grown ups who just don't understand what you are saying. I am rather bored and boring as of late though it has nothing to do with my shoe choices nor sexual preferences as life is rather more complicated than that. I can't believe anyone with any experience of adult relationships could look at this hot mess of insecurities in the LW's letter and conclude the solution is to dress like a tart. Adolescent, indeed.

62

Yep JibeHo @55. this one’s a corker. Sexist as fuck and keeps parading it here. Not sure what their game is.. tenacious as though. Personally I think they are some sad sod tapping away in his lonely basement flat. With many polyester suits.

63

@61 EmmaLiz
"... when you offer anecdotes instead it's usually interesting and a good contribution."

True, but as we tell all abuse victim, abusers will not be abusive 100% of the time. If they did no one would fall into their trap. So they will sometimes present a palatable side, a human side. Similarly our toxic trolls. Personally, their general toxicity leaves me absolutely no interest in their palatable side.

64

Weigh in on dadddy/emmaliz on presentation:

I once had a close male friend who was with a woman he met at work- they were together for six years total, the first 5 years at the shared work environment. Attraction developed, they had a pretty decent relationship for a long while.

However he expressed to me that the "uniform" environment kind of disguised an overall presentation attraction issue. It was also an outdoor company, so when they were off, he never really realized how...sloppy? her presentation was just in general.

When they moved away together, he kinda realized that baggy jeans, no makeup, sweatpants and flat hair were kinda her MO, and while he still wanted to have sex with her because he was a super sexual person.. his overall "attraction" to her was pretty low.

This contributed to the decline of the relationship, but did not cause it. It was just a fundamental mismatch, he was a person who took more pride in his appearance, she was not. Jeans were worn out, illfitted, etc. Just didn't matter to her-- nothing wrong with that. He felt like shit about it- felt like it made him a piece of shit for caring. He only said something one time, and she took it so personally he felt awful and never brought it up again (and it was akin to those pants are getting really old, let's go shopping and get you some new stuff!)

The way the LW wrote this- that is definitely part of it, and their respective sex drives is a another part, and impossible to know if the two are linked or not.

LW is not obligated to change her personal aesthetic. If she wants to do so to see if it changes how her partner reacts to her, that'd be a good way to test it. Then she can break up with him anyway if she wants, but she'll have the answers she craves. If you gotta know LW, do your hair and makeup outside your comfort zone for a bit. You don't need to go all suicide girl, but you'll be able to tell if it has an effect by y our partner's reaction. Style up significantly, and see if he's more interested, more grabby, more sexual, more complimentary. Or maybe he's the exact same. You can still DTMFA, (maybe even more so) and go back to your normal aesthetic but you'll have the closure you crave. Shrugs if you gotta know...

65

Yeah LW and paint your tits blue, it’s probably a colour he likes.
No qapla, you do your hair and makeup outside your comfort zone, if you want to. That blueberry lipstick is all the rage. You got some?
Telling women to do their fucking hair and their fucking makeup differently.. where are you men from and please go back there.

66

It's very strange to me to see people talking as though sexual attraction is a binary, either/or proposition. Maybe for some of you it is, but for many people it's much more of a continuum that can depend on a ton of things: their own mood and baseline level of horniness, the way the other person is acting or dressing on that particular day, a sexual feedback loop of mutual interest with the other person, etc.

For instance, most people in healthy LTRs have experienced the in-between state of being open to sex (or at least not against it), but not feeling especially driven to start anything. It's pretty likely that if you make appearance-related choices your partner likes (clothing, makeup, haircut, whatever), they'll want to have sex with you more often, and will take more initiative to do so. Maybe the difference will be tiny, maybe it will be huge, but it will be there.

So I don't understand claims that boil down to "Look, either he's attracted to her (in which case things like clothing won't matter) or he's not (in which case changes in appearance are only a temporary fix/fetish item)." That's not really how sex works for a lot of people -- we don't come with a switch that has only two settings. It's contingent and cyclical and, like every form of human experience, full of conflicting impulses and external influences that change from day to day. It's possible to feel lukewarm ambivalence, white-hot attraction, and total repulsion towards the same person within just a few days. And the threshold for action can vary wildly for any number of reasons.

It might be (though I doubt it) that adopting the fashion and makeup of a Suicide Girl gets the LW's boyfriend so chronically turned on that it's like flipping a switch -- or turning a dial from 20% to 95%. Maybe, in other words, he already finds her attractive enough that putting those two things together would be synergistic. If the relationship were awesome otherwise (which it doesn't seem to be), it might be worth it to the LW, or it might not. That's her call.

Or, it might feel totally wrong (to him) for her specifically to adopt that look, and it completely freaks him out.

Or, he might only be attracted to that look in a compartmentalized way: he likes to fantasize about it, but doesn't want to be in a LTR with a Suicide Girl type because it's a sex thing that can't function holistically for him -- or because he feels absurd next to her, like a fish out of water. It's possible these things sank his previous relationship.

I think the LW should probably walk, because she doesn't sound happy at all and her boyfriend sounds like a low-libido type who prefers fantasizing to actually doing it.

But the issue isn't whether her boyfriend is attracted to her -- as if there's a single, yes/no answer to that question -- but whether that attraction is enough to spur him to meet her needs consistently (evidently not), whether there's anything she can do to affect the equation (possibly), and whether she should consider doing those things (for this relationship, probably not).

67

Qapla, that sounds reasonable for that situation and also irrelevant to this one.

Again I'm not sure why there is so much focused on this woman's lines about how she dresses and almost no focus (from anyone but me that I can see) on the fact that this man's last relationship lasted three years during which time they had sex only about three times a year. EVEN THOUGH this woman (in the sexless relationship) presented as a suicide girl which is his preference?

QUIZ TIME

1) What sort of man stays in a three year relationship with a woman who looks the way he prefers a woman to look even though they only have sex once every four months and this has always been the case?

A) a man with a high sex drive
B) a man without a high sex drive

Now I'd accept other suggestions (we don't know the details) but the one thing that we DO know is that here he is, in another relationship, this time with a woman who wants sex more, and he's still not giving it.

Hmmm? Maybe she should try looking like the type of woman he prefers, you know, like the last one, that he stayed with for years despite the fact that they almost never had sex? Yes that's a good strategy how?

And I'm not saying it's his fault that his ex wouldn't fuck him, but he did stay for three years in that situation. How many guys with a high sex drive would put up with that?

Now combine all of this with the actual words of the LW- which include her saying she thinks she has a higher sex drive than the boyfriend, that she has not had this problem before - past boyfriends were happy to get down- and it's really bizarre to me that people might go along with "nah, ignore all that, let's focus on the woman's clothes".

68

EmmaLiz @56: "But if Daddy is correct that he doesn't find her attractive, then I think it's terrible advice that she should try to change this- it's not healthy to be with someone who does not find you attractive and will only fuck you if you do whatever X, Y, Z thing to make yourself attractive to him." Exactly!

If the juvenile delinquent of the board had said, "My girlfriend discovered I have a thing for high heels, so she bought some and wears them for me, isn't she great?" we'd all agree. But he didn't; he said the equivalent of, "Men! Don't like the way your girlfriend dresses? You're within your rights to demand she change. Her preferences and comfort? Pshaw!" And wonders why a comment like this causes a stink.

69

It starts with wanting a woman to wear different shoes, then how about sexier panties and bra. Soon it’s the nose doesn’t look right and the tits and pussy really do need some work done. Women are not mannequins to be made over.

70

Also, did it occur to you that perhaps this woman has a reason she wears clothes that don't draw male attention -- such as she's among the one in three women who've been sexually assaulted? So she'd rather not present herself as a sex object to the world at large?

EmmaLiz @67, it's not "people," it's Dadddy. Everyone else is just responding to his trollery.

73

Yes and it’s a sexist industry, mate. And luckily for us women who don’t jump on that bandwagon, there are lots of men who see a whole person in front of them, not just the shoes they wear. Superficial tools like you Mr D, know nothing of a relationship with a whole woman because it’s not what you want, right? A nice pliable bimbo suits your style.

74

Isn't "it's a sexist industry" just shorthand for "it has to do with what men like"?

The jumping-up-and-down on Dadddy here seems to me all out of proportion. I agree with EmmaLiz that other parts of the letter indicate this relationship may not be worth putting much more effort into. But let's not get all huffy about the fact that most people--including men, including Dadddy--have style preferences, and it can ramp up your sex life if you indulge them. This really isn't controversial. If I assert that I prefer it when my boyfriends wear clothes that suit them, and not baggy formless t-shirts and shapeless jeans, will y'all hop on and claim I don't want to date real men? Or that it just starts there, and next I'll be asking them to get chin and calf implants? C'mon.

I agree, this is tiresome.

75

Daddy

"Why are you so resistant to the idea that male attraction can be influenced by a woman's style?"

I'm not and never said I was. I'm resisting your repeated attempts to change the conversation and make it sound like I'm being unreasonable. As Ive stated clearly, I think there's loads of evidence that it's a matter more of sex drive incompatibility (with his being lower than hers) than of lack of attraction. And if he is not attracted to her at all, then it would be foolish and unhealthy of her to try to change herself into someone he is attracted to. Both of these points you directly contradicted, starting this whole annoying thing.

Here's the bullshit you said:
"If BF shows less interest in sex than GF, the problem is more likely that she doesn't turn him on rather than a libido mismatch." No evidence for this, and in fact evidence to the contrary including the LW's own words and the bf's past habits plus current excuses. And your advice- in a situation in which you claim the BF is not turned on by his GF is "Like a lot of guys, he's turned on by women who tart themselves up a bit with sexy outfits and adornments. She, on the other hand, only rarely presents herself as sexy. Maybe this is something she could change? Or should change if it's a matter of insecurity? If not for this guy, maybe for the next?" This despite the fact that she has not had this problem before (again he has) and that you are claiming this as a solution to someone who is not turned on by someone else- to try to make him get turned on. Not to try to enhance it, not to do something nice for someone you care about, not to spice up a sex life, but to try to turn someone on who is not attracted to you which is foolish.

So stop moving the goalpost. You said something foolish, then you backed it up with several misogynistic and insulting posts.

76

If I assert that I prefer it when my boyfriends wear clothes that suit them, and not baggy formless t-shirts and shapeless jeans, will y'all hop on and claim I don't want to date real men?

Ciods, no, but if you said your boyfriend does not turn you on and you don't have sex with him because you aren't attracted to him, then I would say it's foolish to advise him to dress differently rather than break up.

79

Dadddy, you say you think of yourself as a juvenile delinquent goading the nuns (and yes, that is tiresome), but you're only half right. None of us here is sexually repressed, that's why we're here. Nuns? The assembled company includes myself, EricaP, CMD, Ricardo, Coolie... people whose sex lives are far less "boring" than a straight guy who likes his women submissive. You think you're edgy, when in reality you're the one who's close-minded. You're a throwback, a caveman. You persist in thinking your sexual style is superior. It is merely your preference, and doesn't give you the right to goad or insult people who don't share it. You can't describe your own writing style as "a delinquent teen ... smarting off to the nuns" and not expect people to not want to smack you with a ruler. You provoke people on purpose and act like we're unreasonable for reacting. It is indeed beyond tiresome.

And funny, if you'd asked me to draw a picture of a Smith lesbian she'd probably be wearing Doc Martens. Moving goalposts indeed.

80

Right ciods and how do you think men develop these tastes? It’s called conditioning and maybe you could look it up. Suck up to the sexist creep all you like, ciods. Long as you don’t claim the feminist label all’s fine. Men like Mr D need suck ups like you or they would die out.

81

He doesn’t get it Fan, because the women he attracts don’t stand up to him. The strength of us women here would knock him over in real life as all his ploys and games wouldn’t work.
Except with ciods who seems to find it all very amusing.
I wonder why he keeps returning. He pisses on the men, like a rude little brat. Issues with competition there. And god it is boring having to correct him all the time.

82

Ah, Lava, I'm not trying to piss you off. Nor do I feel any need to suck up to Dadddy--he knows I'll toss the occasional paper plane his way from my seat here firmly in the middle. But I do think that y'all carry your larger negative impression of him around with you to every comment section and it causes regular overreactions to his posts which are, at least to me, tiresome to read. Yes, we get it, you and Bi and others don't like him. But can we not still just address the post at hand, and the ideas its brings up? After his original post about sexy shoes, a response like, "Well, maybe that would help in some cases, but in this LW's case I don't think it will, because xyz" seems reasonable (and to EmmaLiz's credit, that's what she said). The immediate "You only say that 'cus you're a sexist asshole and you don't date real women" responses seem, to me, excessive, as does the constant name-calling from Bi (who knows, I hope, that I generally like her posts a lot). And so I said so. That's all.

83

@Emma @76: I think your point is well-made and I agree. My comment there wasn't really referring to the original letter anymore, but rather to the larger conversation that it's evolved into. (Devolved? :)

84

I also point to nocute @53 as a non-knee-jerk response to Dadddy, and I know you don't think nocute feels any need to suck up to him, whether you think I do or not. So it clearly can be done.

85

Take issue with the LavaGirls comment @65. 1) I did NOT say she should change who she is AT ALL. This woman strikes me as extremely insecure. Most of us (yes I said us, because I'm a woman despite your assumption I'm not), don't get overly freaked out when partners look at different types of women/porn. She is freaked the fuck out about it. She wants TO KNOW whether or not this is about her appearance or not. It is eating her up to wonder if he would prefer a type that isn't like she is. So I simply suggested, that if it gives her piece of mind, and she needs to know one way or another- a soft trial run to discover would give her answers.

The reality (as we all know it) is it more than likely wouldn't change her boyfriend's attitude towards her. If it didn't, that should provide her the comfort that this isn't about her presentations choices, which might help her be more confident going forward. If it did--- then she can recognize that her boyfriend is kinda of a mismatched POS who's wasting her time. I also didn't say she should or needed to, I said if she wants answers, she COULD TRY FOR SCIENCE. Some of us, super over-thinky analytical types (which she strikes me as ) will drive themselves crazy "wondering"-- if this gives her closure, she could considering trying it. I'm also not saying she needs to dress like a SG, just amp up the appearance change a few times and see if it evokes a reaction- IF SHE WANTS TO. Some makeup, hair, a little more femme/rockabilly than maybe her norm is-- she can even do it at home exclusively, if she isn't comfortable with that presentation outside. Who cares.

Lastly, EmmaLiz, I almost always agree with you (and I still mostly do here)-- but I think the relevance of LW saying her BF told her he only had said with SG g/f 3 times is completely irrelvent bullshit. This guy is clearly invested in trying to make her feel better (deleted the IG)-- he told her he only had sex with the SG g/f 3 times because he knew that would comfort her that it wasn't about "types". He may have only had sex with her three times, he may not have. But what was he going to say? Especially if she asked, and especially if there was an imbalance? Maybe he loves LW but the drive is just mismatched. He isn't going to say, yeah I fucked her like a rabbit all the time. So I literally am dismissing that piece of the letter entirely. It's unreliable narrator. What matters from this letter is that SHE mentioned the appearance differences many times, and SHE wants comfort that her appearance isn't it.

Dadddy is being a troll, but the fundamental idea that this is possible, or she could try and figure out if it was factoring or not by switching it up just to see, could literally give her piece of mind and is not saying she should change who she is. And if she isn't comfortable with that, that's completely fine, but she's also going to have to be comfortable with never really knowing-- which is up to her.

86

Dammit, while I'm banging this drum: the same thing happens with Sportlandia. Sometimes the things he says are (to my mind) bullshit. But sometimes they aren't, and it becomes very hard to have the conversation during those moments because everyone's so convinced he's going to spout bullshit that they hop all over him the minute he appears, exaggerating his positions and rephrasing what he said to make it something extreme. All subtlety is lost, and frankly, as a choir member here, I don't really need to be preached to constantly. Sometimes it's fun to hear from people standing just outside the church, ya know?

If you really think someone is irredeemable, then you can stop reading their posts. But if you don't, then it is more pleasant for everyone to address what they actually said, rather than some impression of what they probably mean based on some pre-existing negative impression.

Okay. I'm done ranting now. Hugs and kisses to Lava and Bi and anyone else I've pissed off in the last few minutes :)

87

@qapla 87

It's possible the LW's bf is lying about his past relationship, just like he lied about the reasons he looks at the IG girls. They are definitely a couple with massive insecurities and a communication problem, so who knows.

But just to clarify, the bf didn't just say "I dated this suicide girl and we only fucked three times" which could be a rounding error depending on how long they were together.

He said, "I was in a three year relationship with a suicide girl and we only fucked three times A YEAR".

This seems a massive lie if it's not true- and also really weird. Is the LW really so insecure as to need to hear that her BF stayed in a three year sexless relationship? She doesn't strike me as insane, so she'd assume that couples in a three year relationship do have sex. A lie to protect her ego might be something like "sure we had an average sex life, but sex with you is so much better" or "I was never really as satisfied with her as I am with you" but if he claims he actually did not hardly ever fuck his long term relationship girlfriend for three years and this is a lie, that's really disturbing.

I think it's far more likely that he stayed in a three year sexless relationship, as he says he did.
The LW herself says it's the ex's craziness that made the relationship sexless. What I'm acknowledging here is that a man who would stay with someone for three years who basically never had sex with him is likely to have sexual hangups or a low sex drive. You could write it off as a one time thing, except for the fact that here he is again, in another relationship with a woman with a high sex drive, and he still doesn't want to fuck as much as she does. Moreover, she's being a bit crazy here (with overreacting to the IG stuff) and he responds like a person who is insecure - deleting the account, feeling responsible for her happiness, making up lies to dismiss the obvious (that he has a healthy interest in other women).

So we all agree that LW is nuts to be jealous and - as I said earlier- she ought to give a think to how she thinks she's going to handle an open relationship when she can't handle her BF looking at porn.

But I'm pointing out that the BF as well has a history of being nuts- the only two options are that either he A) stayed three years in a sexless relationship and is now rejecting sex in this one too, or B) made up a whopping lie for some reason claiming that he stayed three years in a sexless relationship to make his current GF feel secure even though he is now rejecting sex in this relationship. (And on top of either, he lies about his sexual interests with stupid excuses and deletes his account when his privacy is violated).

I think B is a silly and unlikely interpretation, but in either case, the BF has some problems, and they don't have shit to do with how his current GF dresses. If that's a concern at all, it comes after half a dozen more important issues.

88

BTW Qapla, I absolutely agree with her needing reassurance here and about her insecurities being the reason she kept bringing it up- multiple times and comparing herself with the IG girls.

But to me, that's exactly another reason why it's terrible advice to tell her to dress up to try to get this man to want to fuck her. Once you are in that state, nothing is ever good enough. She's literally so insecure that she compares herself to random women online- there are millions of them and every man or woman she ever dates is going to notice. She's got to work on her own insecurities for her own sake. Now I agree as well (and have since the beginning) that feeling good about how you look can help with this, and sure if she wants to put some more thought into how she looks or if she really thinks it's limiting her prospects, she should do that. See NoCute's post about presentation, etc. But she says her past boyfriends make her feel like the bees knees, she wants more sex than she's getting, and I think in this department positive encouragement is most important. Hence why I think Daddy's anecdote is useful despite the ugliness in how he presents it. Someone who builds you up and rewards you and also suggests what makes you look good is one thing. "Your ass is so nice, can't take my hands off it, love it when you wear tight pants" is different than "I don't want to fuck you because you wear sweat pants, I'd rather jack it to these people online".

It will do nothing for her insecurities to feel she must do this or that thing or else her boyfriend can't be bothered to fuck her. The fact that her mind is already going that way tells me she needs to work on her own insecurities. He needs to work on his. They need to work on their sexual incompatibilities (how to handle his lower sex drive and her jealousy), etc.

89

Ciods @82, where did I call Dadddy names? He described HIMSELF as a "delinquent teen." You're right that it's more the way Dadddy says the things he says -- as I myself pointed out -- and the fact that I'm used to his "smarting off" (again, his words) that makes me react differently to him than if some random commenter had said the same thing. It's like, Dadddy and his misogynist schtick again. Again, though, he's trolling on purpose, so he can't be upset to get the reactions he does. Ask anyone what comes to mind when someone says "sexy shoes" and they will not say Doc Martens. He did that on purpose to make the rest of us look unreasonable. But you have a point, perhaps more silent eye-rolling would be a better reaction.

90

We’re not in middle school ciods. This is s forum and certain types are not welcome. Sexist creeps like Mr D is one of them. Toss your paper planes at him on a teen vogue page or the like.
He is abusive to the men here and talks about women like it’s the fifties. Of what value are his contribution.

91

Emma I think your follow up points and clarification are super valid-- thanks for taking the time!

93

I, for one, find Doc Martens on women sexy.

94

I reread the letter, as I had gotten a bit far away from it.
So: despite her self-presentation ("natural colored hair, no tattoos, no makeup, and an affinity for baggy t-shirts and jeans") previous partners have responded to her as if she's the "bees fucking knees," and she suggests that she doesn't typically feel insecure about the way she looks , but rather that this insecurity is tied directly to seeing the many women he looks at on Instagram and the fact that he doesn't want sex very often:
'I found out/noticed that my boyfriend religiously follows and likes sexy photographs of hundreds of women on Instagram and 95% look absolutely nothing like me. (Remember the hot suicide girl girlfriend? They mostly look like her.) It made me really upset. I felt insecure about myself, I felt distrustful of his positive comments about how I look, like he doesn't actually think I'm sexy. It certainly doesn't help that I want to have sex way more often than he does. He's always "tired."'

These two seem mismatched, sexually. Either the bf has a significantly lower libido than she does, or he isn't particularly attracted to her, which I don't know would be helped by her emulating a "sexier" style. Suicide girls don't present as typically "sexy" in the stilettos/low-cut/skintight way that might be easier/more obvious. The look may be one that the lw really doesn't like--and it's much harder to "suicide-girl-yourself-up" for a date than it would be to put on a pair of heels, a more form-fitting t-shirt, and some red lipstick (is she going to get temporary, edgy "tattoos," fake some piercings, dye her hair or buy a wig?)--and it's a look that signals a lifestyle more than a plunging neckline would.

If the bf doesn't prioritize sex as much as the lw does, she's going to feel rejected; if he's not terribly attracted to her, she's going to feel rejected. Sexual rejection is confidence-shredding. Constant, ongoing sexual rejection from someone you love in the context of a monogamous relationship is devastating. It leaves one frustrated, resentful, bitter, and insecure. This isn't a way to be.

The bf may truly have a low libido and really finds his gf attractive; he may genuinely have deleted his Instagram account and not found those women more attractive than his gf, but just attractive in a different way; it doesn't really matter.* It doesn't matter, because she is still being rejected and she can't help but internalize that rejection. This relationship isn't healthy for her (it may not be healthy for the bf, either, but it's impossible to know what it's like on his end).

Maybe this is a case of Dump the Perfectly Nice but Mismatched Person Already.

*Although this is clearly bullshit: "When I asked him about it he looked at me dumbfounded like he had no idea why I would be upset. Eventually he came up with the response that he likes looking at these half naked girls the same way he likes looking at cute cats on Instagram and that he feels like he's supporting these women and he thinks he's actually supporting these women because they feel empowered by all the men leaving comments like "show me your boobs" and "I wanna shove my cock in you" on their posts."

95

@79 BiDanFan. I'm pretty sexually repressed everywhere else in life other than this forum and when talking about animal mating habits (lol). But I think I'm the only one here.

96

Ms Ods - Perhaps you should be Jane Bennet.

Ms Cute - Good for you; I have been saying for some time that we need more DPNMPA around here.