Loving Father and Husband Struggles With "Disgusting" Desires

Comments

1

I hope he gets to do the things he dreams of at least once in his life, you know?

2

POPS repeated reference to his daughter was a bit disconcerting, especially after he mentioned the need for self-control and being boundary-respecting. Since she seemingly has no place in this letter, but is still mentioned by POPS twice, I really hope that she is in no way part of his erotic fantasies. But in the event that she does factor into his kinks, I really do hope that sees that therapist.

@Dan also did not mention Mrs. Pops, who thinks that her blow-job hating husband may be asexual. Can you imaging being a woman into giving head to have your partner basically say, "No thanks." No wonder they are sleeping in separate beds. POPS should level with his wife, perhaps after seeing that therapist, and let her know he is sexual, but needs to engage with his kinks in order to be aroused. Mrs. Pops is probably in her mid-40s too, and there is every reason to believe she still has an interest in sex. So is she has not been fucking someone else over the years, she may be willing to incorporate some of POPS kinks to get some vanilla sex too. And on the other hand, if she has been fucking someone else, she may be very inclined to let POPS see a sex worker. In any event, I would not recommend POPS see a pro-domme without consulting Mrs. Pops.

Having said that, while POPS kinks are run of the mill among Savage Love cognoscenti, in the population at large, most people aren't going to be too keen on ABDL play.

3

@2 I'm sure he's repressed his ABDL fantasies because he's worried it marks him as a pedophile. It seems unreasonable to claim that mentioning his daughter and ability to maintain appropriate boundaries as... "disconcerting". It's like being upset that airplane pilots double-check all their instruments.

4

Two things to add to Dan’s advice:

1) Sex workers don’t typically charge for a conversation in DMs about possibly booking an appointment but having concerns. We just consider it part of doing business - one of the (many) unpaid parts. That’s why the hours that you pay for are charged at such a high rate. I mean, if you WANT to pay for a conversation before booking, that’s nice and few of us will actually turn down money if you genuinely want to pay, but if you’re looking for a paid conversation I’d recommend asking for it in person, not via DMs. That way you’ll both get a feel for each other.

2) It’s good to try to not have a meltdown, but if you try and you still have one? It’s not the end of the world. We see it all the time. I’m not a Pro Domme, but I mostly cater to clients who either don’t have much experience, or who are just coming out of bad relationships, or good relationships with bad breakups, or who are lacking confidence for some other reason. Sex is intense, and probably at least one in four clients cries, or gets a fit of the shakes afterwards, or needs some kind of calming and comforting aftercare. It happens. Don’t sweat it.

5

Surprised Dan didn't mention Fetlife, where the LW will find other like-minded kinksters, relieving himself at least (no pun intended) that he is certainly not living on an island.

6

Is he the daddy or the baby?

7

You nailed it again Dan. Except forgetting fetlife. Though sometimes that site is very disconcerting. Especially a few erotic stories about daddy/ daughter sex. Shudder. Though I still read them.
LW, why are you torturing yourself. If your wife has bailed re sex, for years, then you are free to explore that part of yourself. And as Dan says, your kinks are not that uncommon.
You sound a decent man, good husband and father. Other people, even spouses, don’t need to know the details of or approve one’s inner erotic life. Your fantasies are your business. As your wife has checked out of hotel sex, how you may express them in real life, is also your business. Lose the guilt around all of it and enjoy.

8

If he's not into age play and DD/lg play as the daddy (not the baby/little/middle) then his letter is extremely weird. The details about his daughter (hey everybody, she is seventeen years old and he hasn't had sex with his wife in years!) and normal communications with her, followed by "In short, I am a decent, boundary-respecting man", suggest that the kinky porn that disgusts everybody is about incest, or little girls ("little girls"), or mean humiliation of babies (AB/DLs), or daddy doms, or something like that.

If he wants to BE the baby (and that's where most AB/DL fantasies lie), then his letter is just weird and ineffectual.

9

Just wanted to chime in here, as I found myself in a sexless marriage, with fetishes that I felt were similarly "disgusting" for many years (diapers, humiliation, sissification, humiliation etc.).

I wanted to share with POPS that after therapy from a kink friendly therapist, and also couples therapy with another sex / kink positive therapist, it's a very different picture. My fetishes are all getting fulfilled, and my partner and I now have a dungeon in our basement, and we regularly go to all kinds of kinky, fun events. It turns out that she is kinky as hell, and didn't even know it, until we learned to be open and honest about our fantasies.... It took a lot of hard work / difficult conversations to get there, but it's been worth it. We've done sessions with pro dommes, and give each other space to fulfill our needs that the other partner is not interested in (my diaper thing, for instance). Shame was the thing that got in our way for a long time.

So, I just wanted to tell you that there is hope, as another person who was stuck in a similar place for a long time.

10

Once again @8, andy, completely hitting the perceptive nail on the head here. There is something SUPER weird about the way he writes these details, and how loathsome he is on himself. If he actually reads this column, he knows these kinks aren’t violent or disgusting, they’re just kinks— once featured semi frequently even. There’s some daughter/age issues here as Anky suggests, and he was too scared to fully out to Dan.

LW if you’re reading- just because you like those things (and maybe have since your daughter was really young or before) doesn’t mean you want to fuck or hurt your daughter. Your brain is might be having a hard time with it because she’s the frequent real world reminder of fantasy kink. It’s nuanced and complicated and you really need a therapist. And if you want to fuck your daughter? You definitely need that therapist— you also should have been 100 percent forthcoming with Dan. You would have gotten more help from him. If this is the case LW, don’t be afraid to privately email him back and tell him you’re got more to come clean about. You need all the support you can get, I think.

11

Having a17 yr old blossoming beauty in the house wouldn’t help, Anky@8. Guess that’s why he mentioned boundaries.
This man has turned himself into knots. He needs to own he’s an adult man with sexual needs/ wants/ kinks and not stress about that.
How he goes about satisfying his adult man needs and wants and kinks is up to him to decide upon.

12

Thank you for sharing your inspiring story, 2020porter@9.

13

About the daughter... so my husband and I used to watch a lot of porn, and sometimes still do. We used to be young and hot like the people in porn. But now, we are POPS’s age, and our late-teenage KIDS look like the people in porn. There’s no sexual interest in our kids, for gods sake, but it does seem weird to be lusting after and fantasizing about people who could be your kids’ friends. His sense of his tastes as disgusting would double that. Add in the fear of embarrassing your child if exposed. I think that’s his concern, not wanting to fuck his daughter.

Would love Dan’s perspective on that as a middle-aged parent of a young adult. Or LavaGirl’s.

14

I don’t watch porn, Fresh. Except in my head, and those men sometimes are my kids friends! Not actual people I know cause I’ve never fancied any of their friends, luckily. Scenarios though. Some men are my age or I’m the young woman and he is a friend’s father. None of it crosses over to any connections between my sons and I. Though they are all attractive young men, my boundaries with them and their sexualities, stays appropriate.

15

I don’t live in the same house with them. I have a big studio out back. One lives in our small house and one lives in a shed.
I don’t see a problem admitting one’s children and their friends are young and beautiful. And leave it there.

16

LW, go to the therapist, if for no other reason than you are obsessing over the subject matter of the letter and it’s causing you distress.

If you are religious, DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT look for a religious counselor. Your problem is not going to be solved by prayer and faith...they need someone with a way bigger toolbox with more tools, because you’re not a nail and you need more than someone with only a hammer.

One thing that jumped out at me was you not liking oral because you like staying in control on the one hand, and kinks that all circle around not being in control on the other. That’s a lot of cognitive tension.

Something else that I wonder about: do you and your wife touch each other in non-sexual ways? If so, is that something good that makes you feel supported? If you’re going to a therapist, it’s easier to make changes stick if you feel supported by your partner.

And...don’t underestimate the power of some professional role play. If you get to the point that you can open up to your wife just a bit, the degradation for one, a pro domme can write a letter to your taste and your wife can give you the letter. She doesn’t know what’s in it, but you do. Or something like that. Lots of ways to get creative.

17

So you're writing to a sex advice columnist about your kinks, and you mention your skin color and the age of your daughter, but not what your actual kinks are? Whatever other issues this guy may have, he needs to work on his communication skills. When you call a mechanic about your car, do you tell him what color your shower curtains are and how old your living room couch is?

18

I do think experiencing POPS' kinks will be some helpful axe to the frozen sea within, but I've got to wave a flag for: figure out how to talk to your wife (and keep it secret to your grave from your daughter). 1) The carrot: you've got a lot closed off, and opening up can help the marriage, even if you've kept it going in other ways. 2) The stick: most marriages will not be helped by the after-the-fact discovery that a partner went out for ABDL play. If you blow up your marriage that way, that becomes a supremely messy blowup.

Lot of loose threads on this one. What slinky said about the dissonance between infantilism and high need for control in sex. What everybody said about the fact that none of the disclosed kinks have any link to why he's locked his relationship with his daughter down to academics. (Maybe he just thinks he's too disgusting to have close contact? Please get therapy going on that.)

@9 @4 thanks for the personal insight.

19

DId anyone else think it curious that he goes on at such length about how disgusting and awful he is, and then reveals his kink is being insulted and degraded?

20

True Mtn.Beaver@18, re a spouse finding out post scene about a kink. How long has he been hiding this part of himself from his wife.
He’s only early fourties and his wife closed sex down years ago. What’s the go with that.It doesn’t look like she’s that fussed with his needs. Tricky though.
Maybe he tells her he’ll be getting his sexual life satisfied elsewhere and that it won’t change his love for his family. Why does he need to disclose anymore.

20

POPS is all over the place.
One point I'd make is that he is not the only man who doesn't enjoy blowjobs, so he can stop beating himself up (and tell his wife) over that one.
His marriage is sexless so he should tell his wife it is now officially open for both of them. Then there is no (or less) risk of his marriage blowing up should the wife discover what he's up to.
Great advice from Dan.
Also wanted to echo @6 -- it's unclear whether he wants to be the one receiving the humiliation or dishing it out. Either way a skilled sex worker can provide what he needs. Once he officially opens his marriage he can also get on Fetlife, there are groups for all kinks including his. Good luck, POPS.

21

Sublime @2: 'Can you imaging being a woman into giving head to have your partner basically say, "No thanks."' I don't have to imagine it. We've heard in this forum from women who aren't into receiving oral; some men aren't either. Gender irrelevant, if you like giving oral and your partner doesn't like receiving, you're incompatible. But many would be relieved.

Sati @4 and 2020 @9, thanks for your perspectives. Fresh @13, what you say makes a lot of sense too. NoHighway @17, what purpose does mocking this LW serve? A therapist will ask the right questions to draw out the information that's important here.

22

Slomo @19: by "curious" do you mean "obvious"? Isn't that more or less how kinks work?

23

Lava@15~ “...I don’t see a problem admitting one’s children and their friends are young and beautiful. And leave it there...”
Especially the friends. I would be extremely squicked out thinking of my daughters in a sexual way, but their friends! There are some real hotties there that I can imagine naked and fucking. Emphasis on IMAGINE. I appreciate beauty but know the difference between fantasy and reality, which is what it comes down to, LW. Even the most disgusting thoughts are harmless if you don’t act on them, or do so with CONSENTING ADULTS.

24

Nothing about this makes me think that his kinks involve his daughter. He's into humiliation, infantilism, diapers etc. but was open to the services of a professional dom. Unless I really don't know what a professional dom is (possible), that points to him wanting to be humiliated etc. That doesn't really jive with him sexualizing his daughter, unless his fantasies somehow involve his daughter dominating him? That seems unlikely.

Seems way more likely that he's convinced himself he's some sort of deviant who will harm people around him. He wants to emphasize he doesn't do that. Pointing out his ethnicity probably plays into that too - as a white male, I'm also aware that my kind are the prototypical pervert/serial killer so maybe he thinks that's relevant/a worry? Spot on advice by Dan to see a therapist - his sexual problems are easily solved but they aren't worth solving if he's not going to see them as appropriate.

25

This is an aside but that white male serial killer thing is evidently a bit of a myth. That blew my mind when I heard it. White males make up the majority of serial killers but when reflected against demographics, they're actually slightly underrepresented. So that's mostly a media representation. Though of course who is complaining about white males getting a bad rap? Not I. Not I.

https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

26

I dunno, I see the mention of his relationship with his daughter as being about "I don't really talk to anyone, don't have any real relationships, I'm lonely and disconnected from my life". LWs, - especially ones like this one who find it very hard to write what they are actually feeling - don't always have clear lines between their statements.

27

OMG after the first couple sentences of his letter I figured he was leading up to telling us he wanted to have sex with his daughter.

What a relief the details once prompted turned out to be!

@2 SublimeAfterglow
"...disconcerting...especially after he mentioned the need for self-control and being boundary-respecting."

Oh yes that too!

Just in case he just couldn't bring himself to admit this is a concern: POPS, /do/not/ have sex with your daughter.

28

Oh, honey... get thee to a munch.

30

FetLife is a great resource for this guy if used properly. He can find events where he can meet other kinksters. What he should not do is go on there and start messaging random women, particularly those whose profiles specifically state that they do not want to be contacted by people they don’t know. This is not just my pet peeve-I regularly hear from femme folks who are sick of that shit.

(”Kinksters” autocorrected to “ministers.” I thought that was funny AF).

31

@22 BDF, "curious" may have been a bit too circumlocutory, but the point was, is this LW just using Dan (and us) to get off?

32

@24, maybe white men are the prototypical serial killers because that's who stars in the movies? Maybe that feeds some selection bias in what we remember from seeing in the news. As @25 points out, it's not as if all the serial killers are white, or men. They are just a big chunk of the demographics.

33

I'd just like to put in a disagreement to the people saying there's no need to tell his wife (or that he can feel completely justified telling her he made a unilateral decision) he's going to get his needs met elsewhere. Some people suggest or say the wife shut down sex or that the lack of sex is her fault entirely, but LW doesn't say that. Based on his self-loathing, inability to communicate very well, the fact he says he has "put [himself], at least sexually, on a dessert island" and that he doesn't think he can enjoy sex without his kinks, it seems likely he was not super into sex when they were having it and she was left with no idea why. I can definitely see the asexual comment being made out of frustration/insecurity if he just generally hadn't seemed into sex, his wife tried to initiate in a way she thought he would like (giving him a bj), and he still wasn't into it. He's given no reason to suspect that she would be against his kinks other than how "disgusting" and whatnot they are. He just says he "knows" she wouldn't approve, but he also "knows" Dan wouldn't (despite his attitude and everything he's written).

Therapy for him alone and them as a couple seems the much better suggestion to me. As @9 2020porter illustrated - this can be really rewarding. And as @2 SublimeAfterglow pointed out his wife may be happy to let him go elsewhere. Whatever the outcome at least he won't have to regret not trying, or live with hiding and his own unjustified lying.

34

Kitten @33 - his conclusory statement about his wife’s disapproval of his kinks also gave me the suspicion that he’s basing that on nothing but his own fear and self loathing. Dan’s column frequently features letters from people who have painted themselves into a miserable corner by assuming that their partner would never in a million years approve of, let alone indulge them in, their kinks. Sometimes those letters are followed by success stores from people who actually used their fucking words and discovered that their partner shared those kinks or were more than willing to be GGG about them. Life is too short to stay unhappy because you’re afraid to ask for what you want.

35

@Dan Savage: You're lovely. Such kind and right-on advice. Perfect!

36

However it has come about KW @33, sex in this marriage is off the table. The wife has accepted it as has the LW. They sleep separately, all the time. They are house mates now, and I think he has every right to get his needs met elsewhere.
I do feel he needs to tell her that.. with out details necessarily.
Marriages like this feel so claustrophobic to me. People playing roles instead of being authentic.

37

This man knows his wife and it’s best she doesn’t hear what his kinks are. His shame is already too great. No. They share a home and child rearing duties and have love for each other, the sex though has died. So both are free to do what they need to fulfil that part of themselves. No need to disclose the activities. Not the other person’s business anymore.
He needs to front her that he’s going elsewhere, he Isn’t obliged to tell her anymore. That door between them is closed. Can’t have it both ways.

38

Slomo @31: Ahhhh, I see! Well, if that was his aim, he picked the wrong audience. Not much chance of Dan or (most of) his readers shaming this guy for his kinks.

Kitten @33: "Dessert island" is a great typo. Good catch that he says he has "trapped myself" there. But I don't think it matters how they got to the sexlessness. If he's not interested in her vanilla sexual offerings and has pulled the plug himself, really it's up to her to say "well in that case, the marriage is now open," but since doing so benefits them both, he can be the one to initiate that conversation -- he doesn't have to wait for her to do it, since she may not (and may already be cheating on him). I agree, Lava @37, that this should not include follow-up conversations about their outside partners or activities. I don't think anyone was suggesting they "open" their marriage in that way. Full-disclosure openness is for couples (throuples etc) who are still having sex and have a need to know what their partners are doing/risking. And even then they are entitled to keep the details to themselves.

39

Cont'd -- if he is the one who pulled the plug on sex, he needs to be extremely considerate when initiating a conversation about opening the relationship. Who wouldn't be hurt to be told by their spouse, "I don't want sex with you, but I do want it with others"? Particularly as she has dealt with his lack of interest by presuming him asexual. He may need to reveal that he only wants kink, without going into detail. He says "I have kinks that she has never shared" which indicates that he has brought them up with her, so it may not be a surprise. This conversation may best be held in the office of a sex positive therapist.

40

I don’t think they need to talk in front of a therapist, Fan. That takes time to set up and this man sounds like he’s bursting. He’s been a good and dutiful whatever for a few years now.
I don’t think he’ll be insensitive when he speaks with his wife.

41

I bet the ad changes for everyone, but when I clicked on this, the first thing that greeted me was a pic of a smiling fatherly-looking David Sedaris so I read the rest of the letter in his voice and part of my brain kept expecting it to end with zany hijinks.

42

@41: I have an ad blocker, so I can't see it, but thank you for allowing me to read the letter in David Sedaris' voice. I can't listen to Billie Holiday sing now without hearing Sedaris doing his Billie Holiday impression--and people give you dirty looks if you giggle when "Strange Fruit" is playing.

43

POPS is self-hating and projects. He tells Dan, of all people, that Dan wouldn't like the porn he watches. It's porn, for heaven's sake! Fantasy! There is nothing disconcerting in his watching it--whatever it is--while in the guardianship of his daughter, so long as he is only watching it and exercising his fantasies.

The impression I formed was that POPS wanted to infantilise himself and be humiliated for his incontinence. Perhaps the Domme or Big doing this was someone like his daughter. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, in this to occasion self-loathing. The first thing he has to do is unlearn his reflex, or rationalisation, of disgust for his kink. Maybe he does this by himself, maybe with a therapist. I would counsel POPS working on himself before issues of how he gratifies his kink or how he involves his wife in his new sex life (if at all) even come up.

Thanks to @8 netaporter for his (?) inspiring story.

44

Sorry, '@9. 2020porter'. Message sent before I could check.

45

Shame spreads to everything. He regards his urges as disgusting, then thinks 'oh my God, I've got a daughter' and finds that--the entirely normal proximity and care--another reason to beat down on himself.

Let's suppose absolutely the most compromising kink to someone in his stage of life e.g. he fantasises about dressing nubile 16yo girls in diapers and humiliating them when they soil them. Then forcing them. This is still not unpalatable as a fantasy. It could be acted out consensually--and it could be mutually wonderful. Still, I would think he wants to be the Baby. His control-freakery, to respond to @16 slinky's point, could make his loss of control as a Baby even more conflicted, intense and hot.

46

@19. slomopomo. I think the guy has a genuine problem. A big complex of problems. I don't think he's playing us for kicks.

@33. Kitten. Île flottante--yum.

47

Lava @40, this man clearly struggles to express himself. They have been sexless for years; if he wants to remain married after this talk, waiting another week or two until they can find a therapist to facilitate this difficult conversation might be worthwhile.