I love how, even in these liberated days, some of the eternal verities still apply.

You miss out on 100% of the partners you never talk to.

An easy way to practice this is to work on your small talk. Get used to walking up to and introducing yourself to people you don’t know. Not necessarily at a bar, but at work or school or whatever. This is a super useful skill to have not just when it comes to getting laid but also in life generally.

Trust me: most of us feel the same existential dread when it comes to approaching and talking to strangers. It really is just something you just overcome by having a bit of courage and just doing it.

A woman who just wants things to work out for her romantically without actually having to use her words or even do anything at all. Hmmmm... I thought learned on Slog that these women don't exist...?

You could just invite someone back to your dorm room for pizza.

Awww, I feel for ya. It will not get easier with time and you'll regret not doing it if you don't muscle up and get out there. And Dan is right, awkward can be cute and sweet and vulnerable. You don't need to be great at small talk. Just be your bi, sexy, horny self!

@2 it's faaaaake.

I think if they can do it right, "Logan's Run" could be even a better movie than the 1975 original.

For the Letter Writer (LW) Don't use your boyfriend as bait. You need to get some sort of agreement with your boyfriend, about opening up your relationship. You have to do something one on one with another woman. If you two hit off, then talk about bringing in your boyfriend into scene.

However, I really feel it is going to be a bad idea in bringing your boyfriend in your hookups with other women. As much as you feel jealous when your boyfriend is hitting on other women, guess how you would feel if your magical unicorn is throughly getting enjoying getting fucked by your boyfriend? Ditto how your magical unicorn feels seeing you putting stamps of "My property Bitch!" all over your boyfriend, that are boundaries not to cross, like affection or bonding with your boyfriend.

Personally, I think you should break up with your boyfriend, and date a woman, if you feel this strongly or yearning the superior sex. I just feel that it is going to difficult to balance both either another bi girl or a lesbian with your boyfriend. He will also demand that he can date others, mainly other women..

I just see this getting messy, with a couple hurt feelings on everyone involved in this hypothetical menage a trois. If you are still planning to get some booty, then go slow, be open and honest with all parties, make sure anyone can back out or kill the plan get together. Remember what attracts you won't attract your boyfriend, and what attracts your new female friend won't be what you are attractive to at times. Just be careful with the feelings, and good luck..

I’m willing to bet that when the bf found out she was bi, he assumed there would be threesomes and she assumed that was the price of admission if she wanted to be with a woman. I’ve been there, LW, and the whole time it was happening, I thought to myself that I wish he weren’t there. Being with a woman was something I wanted for ME, not for us. If I had it to do again, I would have that experience alone, at least for the first time. I would suggest the same for you. It will take a whole lot of pressure off if you’re batting for one person instead of two.

I've been trying to figure out a semi-similar issue minus the threesome - basically a bi girl in a relationship that recently opened up. Do any lesbian or bi women have practical advice on flirting with or picking up on flirting clues from women for a woman? Or just general ff romantic/sexual info or tips that might be helpful? And bi women: what is different and what's the same in ff vs. mf interactions? My only experience with women was during hypomanic episodes when I was pretty much convinced that everybody was attracted to me and had total confidence, so that's useless. Maybe LW will be more comfortable taking the lead instead of her boyfriend if she has a better idea what she's doing.

As Morrissey sang on the Smiths song 'Ask" --

Shyness is nice
But shyness can stop you
From doing all the things in life you want to.

@3 has closed out this thread, all.

@3: Thank you, LateBloomer, for making me spit very nice wine (of which there is no more) on my computer screen (and it had better not have gotten on the keyboard)!

Ah, Logan's Run . . . Remember Jenny Agutter's breasts? I sure do, and I'm straight. (Fans self wildly. Goes to get a cold compress.)

Why can't a billion dollars just appear in my bedroom?
Why can't the most wonderful man in the universe just appear in my bedroom?
Why can't the fountain of youth just appear in my bedroom?
Why can't a job promotion just appear in my bedroom?
Why can't a hit man who's going to take out Mitch McConnell, Brett Kavanaugh, Clarence Thomas, Lindsay Graham, Mike Pence, and Donald J. Trump just appear in my bedroom?

C'mon, Dan. Pleeeeeese? Just one?

Nocute, Jesus woman. No threats. Can see why there’s no wine left..

So glad I'm not 20 anymore! Yes, for now it may seem easier to let your practiced-at-this-sort-of-thing boyfriend approach women, but unicorns are rarer than women who like women; the woman in question would need to fancy you both; and being approached by a man for a threesome can be creepy. Ideally in the 10 years since this letter, CAGE learned the term "lesbian sheep syndrome," gained enough confidence to start approaching women she fancies, and got an OKCupid profile.

Late @3, you win this thread.

Kitten @9, OKCupid! There are loads of poly people on that site, and you can bypass the whole "hope you don't mind that I'm in a relationship with a man" awkwardness by putting your status right on your profile. Flirting with women is hard because with men, we can assume there's a 90% chance that at minimum he wants to get into your pants, with women that's so much not the case. Also we've been conditioned to think objectifying women is wrong, so we flirt so subtly she never picks up on it. That's what lesbian sheep syndrome means. As scary as it seems, you just have to person up and be blunt -- assure yourself that at worst, she's not interested but takes it as a compliment. Good luck!

Dan, this paragraph is bang on: "Nice, sexually adventurous girls approached by 23-year-old pieces of male eye candy about two-girls/one-guy threesomes will assume that it's about Eye Candy's fantasies, not the girlfriend's. And if you're hanging back, looking uncomfortable, jealous, and headachy, even a girl who might be up for a threesome is going to read reluctance into your demeanor, presume your boyfriend is pressuring you, and politely decline."

I would advise against just asking random women for threesomes. I wish I had some tips for how to make a threesome happen. For me they've just kind of happened; any attempt to script one, with someone one or both of us wasn't already sleeping with, inevitably fails. How about, open your relationship, both of you date other girls, then suggest a threesome between existing partners once everyone has got to know each other? Not great advice if you're 20 and desperate (as I once was), but effective in my experience.

Aw, this one's cute -- and a little clueless (not that I have a clue). Hope she eventually got with a girl.

Oof does this one hit close to home. Approaching women as a woman is so daunting at first, especially if you're accustomed to always being the one approached. You don't want to come off as creepy or aggressive, but then getting flirting to actually read Flirting and not kindness can be rough if you're more passive.

Do yourself a favor and leave your boyfriend at home for this. Opening up the relationship so you can explore your sexuality on your own is going to make this scarier but more rewarding.

I'm totally confused why Dan thinks a bi-woman who gets geeked out when her boyfriend flirts with another woman, could somehow be comfortable when her boyfriend fucks another women in her bed. That seems a bigger issue than how to entice someone into their bed.

@7: “ Personally, I think you should break up with your boyfriend, and date a woman, if you feel this strongly or yearning the superior sex. I just feel that it is going to difficult to balance both either another bi girl or a lesbian with your boyfriend. He will also demand that he can date others, mainly other women.“

This is ridiculously ungrounded.

CAGE (if you're still reading Savage Love) and anyone else in this situation...

You CAN have the gal or guy of your dreams magically appear in your bedroom! All it takes is a little blotter acid. Unfortunaely...

https://io9.gizmodo.com/there-really-is-an-lsd-shortage-and-heres-why-1677123866

The advice was okay, but the conclusion was dreadful.

Ms Cute - So you're the target demographic for Call the Midwife?

@23: Thanks--I'll get right on that!
@24: Apparently.
My daughter and I used to love that show (haven't watched in years), and we used to call it, "The Call of the Midwife."

@16 Bi - thank you for the help! /Sigh/ I've never done the online dating thing, and it seems like such a headache, but I guess it does make the most sense. I've definitely seen what you mean about lesbian sheep syndrome and flirting more subtly. If I am interested in a girl I normally kind of put myself in her shoes and I'm like "if she just wants to be friends I don't wanna be like one of those guys who has just made me feel like all he wanted was to get into my pants". And sometimes when I've thought a girl may be flirting I'm like "is it just because I think she's hot and she's being nice? I don't wanna be like those guys who assume I'm hitting on them just cause I'm being nice".

In college it was so much easier cause I went to a really small school that had a high proportion of LGBT+ students, so no one assumed anyone was straight. I ended up fooling around with girls the same way as I always have with guys - either becoming friends or at least kind of getting to know them, and then we flirted and it went from there. Having that pre-existing relationship without the assumption of straight-ness meant I knew that they knew I valued our interactions even if they weren't interested, and it also meant that (even though I dated a guy for a bit) girls didn't assume they shouldn't hit on me. If only the whole world were that way...

That whole "non-straight spaces" made me think of the option of lesbian bars, or for people like lw, clubs for women exploring/experimenting with bisexuality. Depending on where LW (or now whoever could use similar advice) lives - with a quick online search I found Skirt Club for London, Los Angeles, New York, Miami, and Sydney. "To some extent, the club is geared toward women who may be dating men, but use the events as a way to enjoy one another's company". A site called "Meetup" also has lists of bi-curious women or ladies meeting groups all over the place. I'm not really much for bars/parties myself anymore, but for anyone who is, it might be a good option.

@24 Venn and @25 nocute - my partner's mom put us both onto watching Call the Midwife. It made me feel like my mom because it made me cry so much (happy and sad crying).

@3 killed it, thank you. X-D If only that letter had come in ten years sooner!

Mmm. "Logan's Run" with a delish Jenny Agguter, not to omit Logan's extravagant living quarters. Almost makes up for the creepy Last Day ritual.

As for the LW, I hope she finally got REAL with herself, started flirting with and finding women, without expecting her BF to do all the work for an outcome that could be volatile and not the positive sexual experience she wanted. As the slots player in "Desert Hearts" (IIRC author Jane Rule) exclaimed in a fake Hungarian accent, "If you don't play, you won't win!"

Kitten @26, your first paragraph is exactly the scripts that play in my head too! Previously I got round these by lowering my inhibitions with alcohol, and going to spaces such as goth or fetish clubs that are more queer friendly. Lesbian bars scare me because many lesbians shun bi women, particularly bi women who are actively involved in OS relationships -- though I did go to lesbian bars when younger, my strategy there was to wait for someone to approach me, then at least I knew she was attracted before dropping the bi-bomb. "Clubs for women exploring/experimenting with bisexuality" -- these exist!?
Yes, there are also meetup groups for bisexuals and bi women specifically. I've been to a few of these but they seem less meat-markety than I'd hoped. ;) Honestly online dating isn't so bad if you take men out of the equation. Hide your profile from straight people and message women. That takes all the uncertainty out of how to come out as bi and partnered and how to express interest without feeling creepy.

Ms Whiskers - Your experience sums up many of the better motivations for supporting New England's seceding and establishing itself as the QSA.

Ms Cute - I wonder if television is starting to get like films, where series just keep rambling on (or even switch over to film).

general comment - for those who also like entertainment of the Charmed Circle of Friends variety, Ms Agutter is in one of the top-tier episodes of Midsomer Murders ("The Creeper"). (What British television performers haven't done at least one Midsomer Murder by now?) She's also in the charity version of the Grand Knockout Tournament where the four teams were captained by royals - either Ms A or Kiri te Kanawa was in the event where a blindfolded person aided by a caller pushed a weighted pendulum at a bunch of targets, and kept calling her teammate Meat Loaf "Meaty".

Bi - I had actually been looking into local fetish clubs with my partner a while ago, and I didn't even think of that as an option on my own! I always avoided lesbian bars cause I had always heard that a lot of lesbian women feel that way about bi women. I read about a "bi-curious" club a while ago, but didn't really feel "curious", more just "bi", so I forgot about it until this letter. When I've read a lot of the letters I've been like, "well obviously online dating takes care of that", so I guess I just gotta try something new and think of it as fun.

Venn - except I'm on the West coast, so... maybe join Canada and make like an inverted U? Or something like the UK with West Coast and East Coast and the EU with Canada (in regards to voting and travel/trade)?

Jenny Agutter was in a classic Australian movie, made in ‘71, ‘ Walkabout.’

Ms Whiskers - I was thinking in part of what would be close to the right proportion of the population, and how nice it would be not to be Donor States, as well as thinking that the existing states could each set up as being primarily run by a separate letter or bloc of letters, as every group ought to get its own -centric space as far as possible. I got about as far as conceiving that citizenship would not depend on residency. If I could really write, it might make a decent novel, but it's a fun idea to kick around when the Wainthropps are being particularly tiring.

Lord Mary in a Hoop Skirt.
Wandering around everyday, praying that a hot fully bisexual chick will drop in to your lap was what life was like in the 1990s. Then Al Gore invented the Internet!
Create online profiles. Use your BFs good looks. Sheesh. Youngsters.
But fair warning... not that many women are in to NSA... there aren't that many bi chicks in the world... and then there's the attraction issue...

@34 venn - yes, just like reading, it can be very refreshing to sometimes "escape" by imagining an alternative reality to the current one and trying to flesh it out... I enjoy time with friends who are good at bringing me into their own creative worlds or at collaborating in such an effort.

@35 Tim browne - brag brag brag :) my only "info" about nsa sex among women comes from lesbian u-haul jokes. I've always had trouble finding /guys/ into nsa sex (and I've heard friends say the same thing). If there were hot bisexual women in the 90's, they must still be around...a shame it sounds like they're mostly on the internet. It sounds like it's not an entirely uncommon thing for bi women to wish they had a space "irl" to find other bi women to hookup with. Perhaps an untapped market?

I guess there probably wouldn't be enough interest in a "bi female hookup" space. Lesbian bars serve that purpose, particularly if there are any that are known to have a more "bi friendly" community. Or fetish clubs if you approach women.