Not on toast Dan, but on pop chips topped with caviar.
Give her equal time pegging you doggy style and it'll feel less objectifying and more equal.
1: You're a nasty little goblin, aren't you?
/Swallowing/ may be extra credit, but ending the blowjob inside the mouth isn't, really, as stopping the mouth action as the blowee is coming affects how it feels. The swallowing itself might have a psychological benefit to the blowee, but not a physical one, so on the point about actually swallowing I'll agree.
I don't agree that doggy style is objectifying to women, personally, but it can be painful to fuck in that position, and naturally if /she/ thinks its objectifying, then for /her/ it is. It's also about the only comfortable position once you hit the third trimester of pregnancy. I didn't much care for the position until after I'd borne children- it was much less painful after that. Although, since that was about the only position we could use during the end of each pregnancy, I was generally bored with it for awhile afterward. So there are both upsides and downsides to doggy style from the woman's perspective.
That should read "inherently objectifying" ...
RANDY is almost certainly asking in the wrong way ('whenever it comes up'--this means when he petulantly asks or asks in a tone of grievance). Why not reframe adding stuff to your sex-life by asking 'what would you really like?'. If PIV positions that conduce to the woman having an orgasm are the least 'demeaning', then doggy would be in that category. Is how RANDY talks about it, and how he'd like them to do it, a factor that contributes to his partner finding it problematic?
Everything @5 said. Also: a key part that previous commenters and Dan himself seem to be ignoring is that the girlfriend "says she wants to get more comfortable and try these things. But they never seem to happen - and when [LW] bring[s] them up, it turns into a touchy discussion". If the girlfriend is unprepared to follow through with those things, she needs to quit making promises like that. LW is on record as saying he's "not okay with not [doing doggystyle and having his cum swallowed] indefinitely", and from my angle, it sounds like the girlfriend is trying to string LW along in order to continue getting sex from him strictly on her terms while avoiding being dumped. LW, your girlfriend has the right to refuse to consent to sex in whatever form, but you in turn have the right to end the relationship with someone who is as sexually selfish as your girlfriend seems to be, and if this keeps up much longer I'd DTMFA and find someone more sexually compatible with you.
So gee- the two things he loves most are the two things she doesn’t want to do. Do I believe that? Nope. Not for a second. He’s upped how important it is in the discussion in order to get everything he wants. He’s using emotional blackmail and shock, she’s become more reluctant. I hope he dumps her so she can do better.
It's also possible that something about the way LW behaves in the bedroom, particularly during the two acts he's complaining about (or during his request for them), makes the girlfriend feel objectified and she's just generalizing and blaming it on those acts rather than directly confronting LW about his demeanour.
It's also possible LW gets off on a certain level of objectification - many guys do - and she could be picking up on that. If that's the case and she's turned off by a tone that turns him on, then there may be a sexual compatibility issue.
If it's true that the LW knows he gets off on objectification he should come clean about it and try to find some common ground rather than gaslight his girlfriend and try to pretend like that's not exactly what he's trying for.
You're both ridiculous. The L-dub about swallowing & how it's the most important thing ever. The GF about doggy style & getting more comfortable... eventually. You should break up because you are sexually incompatible and also so that you can both try to be less manipulative next time around.
The girlfriend sounds lame. Both of those acts are basically standard fare- not kinky or odd or weird by any normal person’s standards. If she won’t even do those things with an exciting new partner, then that doesn’t bode well for her being GGG about things that might be desired by LW as time goes on. He is probably communicating his needs poorly (likely being whiny and/or petulant), but to be honest I can’t really blame him because 95% of women would have no problem with either of these things. Just a case of incompatibility— and the woman is likely to get dumped time and time again until she gets over her juvenile squeamishness. I am 100% sure that this couple is no longer together, but to the extent anyone who is reading this letter is in a similar situation, its OK for sexual incomparability to be a dealbreaker. If it’s not satisfying in the hot new stages of a relationship it’s pretty much doomed.
I’ve been happily married for 8 years now. I’m a woman and my spouse is a man. For me, no come above my collarbone. Not on my face, definitely not in my mouth. Does my husband wish he could come in my mouth sometimes? Sure. He doesn’t love doggy style. He prefers eye contact and kissing. A little doggy is fine, but not as the main course, so to speak. Do I sometimes want to be pounded from behind for the entire session? Sure. Somehow, our sex life is still awesome. It’s exciting, loving, and adventurous. He turns me on like no one else and I think the feeling is mutual. But one act doesn’t happen, ever, and the other, infrequently. Their absence doesn’t have to be a relationship death sentence. Just wanted to add my experience.
By stopping her stimulating as he begins to orgasm, Ms. Randy is given RANDY ruined orgasms, which of course is unsatisfying. In any event, I have never had a long-term sex partner who did not swallow, so RANDY shouldn't have any problem finding another girlfriend who will too. As for sex in the doggy position, if Ms. Randy is really intellectualizing sex in that manner, she sounds like a terrible partner. For either of these reasons, RANDY should DTMFA and not look back.
Holy fuck balls. Is it 1952? Doggy style is controversial? Christ almighty. You people and your miserable over-thought shitty sex. I’m so, so glad to not be you.
I would not stay with someone who could not handle doggy on objectification grounds. For one, I like objectification, but mostly it's seems like a sign of the sub-branch of feminism that is not about empowerment or equality, it's about being a puritan who believes the more fun something is the more sinful it must be. As for swallowing, the instant after I bust I do not care what happens to the outcome. Before hand, it is sexy if they want to swallow, or say they do, or act like they do, but play-acting works just as well as the real thing.
Check the logic on this man. There is no ejaculate in a pussy, there’s some juice. Not comparable at all. Not in volume I’m meaning.
Anyway, that’s not the point. She doesn’t enjoy sexual activities which are important to you, LW.
You can’t make her, and taking one for the team, can lead to resentment. Best the people involved both enjoy the activity.
If you two are incompatible sexually, LW, best you break up.
I don’t think doggy style is an objectifying position. Maybe this position needs a name change. All positions mean the cock feels different, and variety is life.
I'm still irritated with this question and the way the answer was mostly about swallowing after he comes. Is the problem come in her mouth or is it swallowing? Those are not the same thing - one can let someone come in one's mouth and then spit most of it out for minimal swallowing. For me, if it happens in my mouth I swallow. If I'm not feeling that, it doesn't happen in my mouth in the first place.
And no, @SublimeAfterglow, that doesn't have to mean stopping stimulation or a ruined orgasm any more than pulling out and coming on someone's face/ass/breast/wherever is a ruined orgasm - it's a change of stimulation just before orgasm that doesn't ruin anything if done well.
One piece of advice: RANDY should take a couple loads in his own mouth as information gathering in assorted scenarios like after drinking, eating different foods, and smoking. If he can't shoot it there directly then transfer it as fast as possible from hand to mouth (before it starts cooling) and find out if the taste or texture is particularly offensive.
I'm going to pretend for a minute that I don't regularly ingest come...
How is spitting it out not the worst option if you don't like interacting with come? It's still in your mouth, it's probably coating more of your mouth from the action of spitting instead of just swallowing, then you have to figure out what to do with the come and spit mix which I would argue is even grosser than just come.
Except in the, in my experience, exceedingly rare bad reaction to it, I don't see how swallowing makes the experience of having come in your mouth any worse.
One quibble: she's not (only) refusing to swallow, she's refusing semen in her mouth at all. As IWasSfR and SublimeAfterglow note, this makes for interrupted orgasms, and there is very much a double standard with a woman who expects men to go down on women (which involves getting fluids in your mouth, unless you're using a barrier, which apparently ruins oral sex for women even more than it does for men, to the extent that almost nobody ever does) but won't blow a man to completion (and then spit if she doesn't want to swallow).
I suppose some might view the lack of eye contact for doggie-style to be inherently objectifying, but objectification is really more about contextual behavior and framing than mechanics (should I view it as objectifying when peoplr I sleep with close their eyes rather than maintain eye contact?), so I'm thinking this may be more a case of someone using a received definition that doesn't match the technical (or even common-use) definition; perhaps she simply meant "I don't like it" but didn't feel like she was allowed to express different preferences without a reason/justification.
That said, you're (general you) allowed to have boundaries for good OR bad reasons. And other people are allowed to decide that your boundaries are unreasonable and not pursue relationships with you, which was likely the best option in this situation.
For anyone in a similar situation now, either deal if it's worth the price of admission or break up if it's not.
Totally agree with the swallowing advice. If the guy wants this as a dealbreaker, he needs to seek it and stop putting it on the girlfriend. One surefire way to make a girlfriend who is sensitive to feeling objectified continue to be sensitive to feeling objectified is to say you want to put things in her body that she doesn't like and try to logic away her reasons for not liking it.
As for doggy though, Dan didn't address it. I'd say it depends on what you are calling doggie. A variety of from behind positions can be called that, and some of them can feel impersonal and/or like you are trapped and unable to move, and yes sometimes doggie in porn can be about domination (like the guy holding the back of your head while he goes at it if that's what she's picturing) so I'd suggest talking to her about what she's picturing as doggie and what you'd like to do and then experimenting.
For myself, I find it uncomfortable to stay on all fours for very long and like also to be able to move a lot so I like a combo of doggy-doggy adjacent positions- sometimes feeling like the dude is totally covering me, other times with him standing, sometimes on all fours, other times leaning down so my shoulders/forearms are on the bed. I'm suggesting that you talk abotu all of this explicitly, try it out in different postures, make it fun. It seems like she has a particular hangup about something specific, either something she's seen or something someone has wanted to do in the past or something that has been done to her that she wants to avoid in the future, etc. Also you could stop calling it doggie and just say "from behind"- if you are already spooning or fucking on the side from behind, you could move from there and then move into more positions once she's comfortable with that.
Finally, in my own experience, it's harder to cum from doggie if I'm on all fours in such a position that my hands aren't free either- there's nothing putting any pressure on my clit or anywhere around it. Which is fine to hold like that for the guy, but if it's the main act, well I'm literally just focusing on holding still while someone's fucking me, not too much fun. So leaning down so that there's a pillow under me or so that I've got more weight on my forearms or my shoulders are down and I can use my hands and the guy is closer, that's more fun and I can get off. All women are different, but if you are asking her just to hold still on all fours while you pound her and she doesn't really get anything out of it, then be mindful of why that might feel objectifying and be sure to offer something in return.
What's wrong with licking and squeezing the damn thing while he's coming on his stomach? Win/win, imo.
Quote frime comment #21:
“And no, @SublimeAfterglow, that doesn't have to mean stopping stimulation or a ruined orgasm any more than pulling out and coming on someone's face/ass/breast/wherever is a ruined orgasm - it's a change of stimulation just before orgasm that doesn't ruin anything if done well.”
Thank you! Exactly! How is it any different? Pulling out to unleash your load anywhere else isn’t considered the worst finish ever, so what the hell? What’s the difference when it’s vaginal/anal versus oral? Fuck off with that nonsense. When I’m giving my husband oral, it’s a mix of mouth, hands, and talk. If it’s oral to finish, there’s less and then no mouth at the end. It ends with hands, licking (penis and testicles, and more!), and a lot of verbal encouragement. So much fun!
*from comment 21.
So I was thinking... I bet there is a visual representation of this that might be better than me trying to describe things, and short google, I found this- could be a good conversation starter.
The main pic is what I'd call on all fours. You can't really move that much if you are being fucked in this position, and since your hands are down and there is nothing touching your clit, it just isn't really that much fun. Combine with the fact that it's called "doggie" implying that you are a dog, and honestly several PIV positions, more than anythign it's just boring for some women- nothing to look at, no way to move, no stimulation to the clit, etc.
If you scroll down there's a lot of advice about how to enhance it, and then if you look at "variations" you can see what I mean about other positions. In my experience, if I start out on all fours, I just naturally curl up to that "turtle" position because otherwise it's not doing much for me and then we can both have fun.
What they call "rear entry" (easier with a pillow underneath if you are going for piv) is what I meant by a natural transition from spooning- you can be intimate and kiss easily, and the advice I'd give is (if she's feeling sensitive to being objectified) is to make this the first thing you start and then once you two are really into that a few times and it's lost it's stigma, then move from there to doggie once it's become comfortable.
Finally to the other commenters, I don't see any point in deriding the woman for feeling the way she does. I get really sick of the idea that we are supposed to throw away all hangups in bed, pretending like things that we see/experience in real life have no effect on how we feel sexually, and yes it happens often enough that some positions are presented as being degraded more than others, doggie and oral among them.
What I'm trying to say regarding the "she says she tries but never does" is that the girlfriend might need some scaffolding here.
What has he suggested they try? "Now let's try that thing you say makes you feel bad but you claim you'll try one day." You can't go from nothing to something. Especially if it's coupled with the swallowing- literally having something you don't want in your mouth and swallowing it. He's just going to have to drop that one. If it's a dealbreaker, he needs to move on, but he has to stop asking for it.
As for the doggie, what I'm trying to say is build up to it. If you are dealing with someone with sensitivities, you can't just go from not doing it to doing it. You have to slowly expand the comfort zone.
BTW if they've already tried all this (like if they are already doing other versions of from behind posiitions and she just won't move up to being on all four) then the dude needs to accept that and decide if it's a case of sexual incompatibility or not.
Also, what the hell is with all this shaming? I thought this was a sex positive space. Does sex positive mean we can’t kink shame, but we can shame others for not liking “regular”, non-kinky sex acts? What the fuck is that about? And who decides what is kinky? I don’t do semen on my face/in my mouth, but there a lot of things I like that are considered kinky. Gtfo with your judging and shaming.
Also I can't stress this enough- there is nothing more off-putting and more likely to increase the feeling that you are being objectified than for someone to repeatedly ask you to do something with your body that you don't like doing.
For myself personally, I enjoy the playfulness and sometimes awkwardness of experimenting with a new position- it doesn't always work out but it's fun anyway and you can always go back to old faves. But if the other person were not enthusiastic about it, it would diffuse all my own desire to do it. Like, if you are tolerating something neutral for a few minutes because it gets me off, that's one thing (assuming we've had mutual fun too) but if you are actively making yourself do something you don't want to do because I want it, that would just be a big fucking turn off and a no no.
There's nothing wrong with this guy wanting what he wants and nothing wrong with the two of them together trying new things and pushing this woman's comfort zone if she wants to learn to do these things. But presenting it as "these things are important to me and the girlfriend won't do them even though she says she'll try to do them" makes it sound like work.
As I said, try a different approach, and if she's still not receptive, decide if you need to move on due to basic incompatibilty. It's stupid and cruel for people to decide her hangups aren't important and real just because they aren't logical.
@dadddy : why don’t penis owners always finish in a vag/ass then? Same logic. Must be just terrible to pull out to blow your load on your partner’s breasts/whatever.
Hold up. A ruined orgasm is not the same thing as pulling out before you finish. You pull out right as you start to cum and cum outside the mouth just like you would pulling out of a vagina. This does not ruin your orgasm. I say this as an avid cocksucker who finds it most convenient to swallow. It's pointless to argue about these things anyway. If someone doesn't want your cum in her mouth, she doesn't want it. Move on if it's important to you, but don't try to out logic her and don't try to compare it to things it isn't.
@33 Just so he's not alone... that is also generally lackluster. Every orgasm doesn't have to be the greatest experience, but some things make one better or worse.
Assuming a partner who requires pulling out for all orgasms, maybe the rest of the sex would be good enough to continue a sexual relationship, but that fact would be a big negative for many, myself included.
Have your predilections... have your boundaries... stick to them. But no one is under any obligation to continue to date you or think they are reasonable.
Yikes. I read it again. It's not a double standard that your girlfriend's ex wouldn't do something and now you want something else that she won't do. That's not how double standards work. Aside from the fact that doing oral without cum-in-mouth is not the same thing as not doing oral at all (as Dan correctly points out and yet some dudes here still argue about), it's the fact that the guy is comparing her past sex life to her current one in order to win some argument about what she will do with her body now. Gross.
OK so I change my mind. I started out giving actual advice about why some women might feel the way they do about doggie and how to scaffold into doing more positions to make it more comfortable. I think there's a real skill to gently ramping up what shy/sensitive/inexperienced/shamed lovers will do. Everyone is different of course, but unless the lover is specifically into domination or objectification, then I'd say the guiding principal is to be casual, deliberate and positive about it. Starting out with "this thing that you don't like is the most important thing for me" is all wrong headed.
But now that I've posted a few times and read the comments and read the letter repeatedly, I change my mind.
The LW is trying to out-logic his girlfriend. Pointing out "double standards"- he might as well tell her that her feelings of objectification are a straw man or some other debate nerd babble. That's what a lot of you commenters here seem to be doing too. Yes people feel things that are irrational and this affects their sex life. Why you accept this regarding kinks and shaming but not a woman feeling objectified really stinks to me. Last time I was porn surfing het porn, I kept getting suggested videos of a men fucking women over the couch while holding her arms back and standing on her face- feet on head. I clicked on it because the acrobatics behind it just seemed really funny to me, and then tons of suggested videos like that came up. So this is a thing now, you can find any thing in porn so I'm not saying it's a big trend. But you guys are acting like it's outrageous or bizarre that some women who exist in this world and see the same porn you see and have experiences dating men who- yes frequently do like objectifying women in bed- would have the total normal and even expected response of thinking to themselves, "hey it makes me feel gross to think about being in that position". What could make this better for women that don't enjoy objectification? Having a skilled partner ease and guide her into new positions, showing that they don't have to be that way. If you don't want to be that person, no one is making you be that person, but if you are asking for advice on how to deal with these sensitivities, then don't start with the attitude of "you keep saying you'll do this but then you don't" or "the one thing that I find extremely important is the thing that she wont' do for irrational reasons". It's just nuts to me.
Back to the LW- the things you are asking for are not hard to find. They will come standard with most sexual relationships. After repeated reading, I suggest you move on due ot basic sexual incompatibility.
@35 Huh. Interesting. In my experience it’s been the men that want to pull out, for the visuals/not sure what. Of course, it’s generally safer when it comes to avoiding pregnancy, but I’ve have sex with with many men who wanted to pull out to finish, regardless of birth control (usually two methods - mine and his). Even men who have had a vasectomy...many/most wanted to pull out and come on me instead of in me. Is my experience universal? Nope! But I kind of doubt I’m the exception, honestly.
@19: Volume probably isn't the best way to make your case. The mean male ejaculation is less (much less) than a teaspoon; 1.5 ml to 5 ml, or about .28 to .85 teaspoons for those of us used to US customary units, is the normal range according to NIH (https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/003627.htm . I'm having trouble finding any info on volume of vaginal lubrication produced by female humans from sexual arousal to orgasm, so I'm lacking data to compare. At any rate, unless the male in question is an extreme outlier, we're talking less than a teaspoon of ejaculate, which is 1) much less than the volume of a mouth cavity and 2) something that can be cleared in one small swallow (for me, a sip of water is about 25 ml - I just measured taking a sip from a graduated cylinder). Even if there is a difference in volume, for most people most of the time we're talking about such a small volume total that there isn't really a functional difference - both men and women are almost certainly producing more saliva (and clearing that from their mouths just fine) than their partners are producing fluids.
In short, if you're not gagging on your own slaiva, swallowing the average male ejaculation should pose no mechanical problems for you, so volume is unlikely to be an issue (and thus not a significant contribution to any double standards around oral sex).
Seconding John M, swallowing is a BETTER option than spitting for people who dislike the taste of semen. Hold the glans of the penis at/in your throat and swallow continuously during ejaculation, and you barely taste any semen at all, because little to none ever comes in contact with your taste buds. Not wanting to swallow semen (and probably a significant proportion of not wanting to taste it or otherwise have it in one's mouth) is WAY more about psychological hangups than anything mechanical/material. It's effectively the same thing as the objection lots of people (in cultures where this isn't common) have to eating insects - the fried larvae (I think they were some kind of fly larvae, so maggots) I've most enjoyed have almost an identical mouthfeel and taste to fried soybeans (soy nuts - crunchy and salty/oily), and everybody eats insects unknowingly (any processed food has insect parts in it, at least, as do most fresh vegetables and grains), but people still feel ill at the THOUGHT of eating "bugs". Oh, nasal mucus is an even better analogy: all humans swallow a lot of it (it runs down your throat from your sinuses continuously, performing its useful function of protecting your airways), but many are disgusted by the thought of intentionally/knowingly ingesting nasal mucus.
The best option for any of these objections is to own it as an entirely irrational (and perhaps culturally programmed) preference; if you try to justify your objection, you're going to run headlong into a disgusting reality you might prefer to not think about.
So dump her. You don’t say how long you’ve been in this relationship, but she’s clearly not on the page you’re on. People tend to take sex acts OFF the table as relationships get longer. Not put them on. She doesn’t like sex the way you do. Different values. Different interests. If it’s bother omg you enough to complain about, pull the bandaid off.
@3: Being fucked by a dildo might not be a turn on for him, as is the case for most straight men this side of the Mississippi.
Thanks John@38, for your fluid tests. Vaginal juices are not swallowed in the same way ejaculate is, and if you’ve got a beard the hair soaks most of it up anyway/ joke. And do women demand men continue giving oral until they orgasm. We don’t even have a name for it.
People don’t have to justify not wanting to swallow JohnH. If they don’t like it, that’s their business. Do you go down on a woman when she’s spurting menstrual blood? If not why not. Must be some psychological barrier preventing you from celebrating No Baby this month.
Enough with the guilt trips, some of you men. People have choices. Check what your lover’s preferences are before getting too involved.
I hate doggy style because it hurts to fuck this way unless it’s with a guy with an average sized or smaller. It’s not fun having my cervix punched.
@19: "There is no ejaculate in a pussy, there’s some juice. Not comparable at all. Not in volume I’m meaning."
Wrong, wrong wrong! I had a woman once who could ejaculate across the room. I later had another who didn't deliver quite that kind of pressure, but more than made up for it in volume, volume, volume. The former didn't care if I swallowed or not, but my not swallowing in the latter case simply wasn't an option; she would have soaked through every towel I owned, and then some. (After swallowing, I retained a small amount in my mouth, to keep her clit' wet, warm, and happy as she descended from the heights of her orgasm.)
So, for me at least, swallowing or not depended on whether or not my lover wanted me to. And when I'm the one ejaculating, I definitely do want her to swallow. It makes for an amazingly intense sensation at the finale.
(Not that any of this matters to LW or his girlfriend, who have hopefully long ago dumped each other for their basic incompatibilities.)
One practical solution is to have an oversized condom within reach, place it on the penis just before ejaculating so the grand finale is inside with more or less full sensation while avoiding any direct contact with semen.
Another is to have a paper cup ready and spit it right after, as well as being ok with the suckee getting up to rinse their mouth in the bathroom if they so choose.
A) Taking your mouth away at the last second and jerking me off as I come is a totally acceptable and quite intense orgasm. Maybe not QUITE as intense as coming in your mouth, but nothing to sneeze at either.
B) For Pete’s sake get your gal a vibrator to use while you fuck her doggy. Add in a vibrating butt plug and hang on for the ride!
Also, I never got that “doggy is objectifying” logic. Does that apply to reverse cowgirl as well? Spooning? Stating that only certain angles of penis in vagina are acceptable is like saying that you can eat ice cream with a spoon but not lick it out of a cone.
@EmmaLiz: "You pull out right as you start to cum and cum outside the mouth just like you would pulling out of a vagina." There is more to it than that, including that a man in that position is entirely in control of his stimulation, which as @23/John Horstman noted eliminates the interrupted nature of this orgasm. Moreover, not ending sex with an orgasm inside a partner's vagina may not be a preference about where to orgasm, but the need for stronger, more focused stimulation needed to climax.
That said, I am not really interested in debating how we characterize this type of oral sex. RANDY isn't the first man who has written about this issue. There is general agreement that having a orgasm in someone's mouth feels more sexually satisfying than stopping a blow job and transitioning at that point. Even @15/Mariscrane acknowledges that her husband wishes he could do that too.
No one suggests that Ms. Randy do this if she doesn't want to, and if this is important to RANDY, he should acknowledge their sexual incompatibility and end the relationship.
@24 & @28/EmmaLiz: First, thanks for the link to the website. I find what they describe as Doggle, to be less effective because with a woman's body parallel to the bed, her hips are rotated down, which angles her vagina down. This creates a less pleasure angle between us for vaginal sex, although it is better for anal sex, as her anus is angled backwards. The Turtle position, which you like, not only frees your hands, which can be used to great effect, but also rotates your hips so that your vagina is now backwards facing. In my experience, women who ask for sex from a behind position, self-select into a more upright position, do not seem to like their head resting on the mattress or a pillow. I also agree with you that what is described as "Rear Entry," is also preferable to Doggie, for reasons of physical connectivity and ease.
Gonna agree with Vivic @10 - it's highly unlikely that these are hie Two Favorite Things, he's just whiny. But fine, LW, this really is a dealbreaker for your sex life, go ahead and dump her.
As to why she doesn't like doggy, or whether it's inherently degrading... who cares? Lots of people like lots of stuff that's degrading because they like being degraded, and some people like being pissed on and don't find it degrading, so who are we to try and argue with them? The point is, she's not comfortable with these two sex acts. So instead of trying to argue or "logic" her out of them, just accept that she doesn't like them and figure out if it's worth staying with her anyways.
Wasn't this the column that inspired Lava to wisely comment, "Time for a new name. Sucking cock is not a job and being blown may not always happen"?
It's probable that these two broke up and RANDY found someone who shares his (quite common) interests. Hmm, that "nympho" from last week is now single...
I Won't Cum @1, ha, no feminists have ever had sex with you.
Philosophy @12, nailed it.
Lava @19, very different in taste as well.
John @22, it's about taste, and volume. Normally when coming in my mouth happens, I swallow. But sometimes it tastes vile or there is too much of it or the angle is weird and instead of taking the extra step to swallow it, getting more of that taste down your throat, it's easier to just let it drip out. Sure you then have to clean it up, but that's easier than choking down something unpleasant in the moment. For me personally, again, it's rare that a cum shot is so unpleasant I don't want it down my throat, but mileage varies. I don't have a penis but I agree, I can't see how coming in one's mouth would feel different depending on whether they swallowed.
The other thought I had was, why is she pointing it onto HIS stomach? Perhaps that's what's ruining it for him. Could he not come on her tits? Then he gets a nice visual. But she sounds like the sort of person who would find that unpleasant as well. I'm sure they broke up ages ago and that's for the best.
EmmaLiz @24, agree with all your comments on doggy style. I too find it boring to not be able to see, touch or smell my partner. No clit or G-spot stimulation, no orgasm, good for occasional variety but otherwise ho hum. I would suggest that they do it facing a mirror, that way she can at least see him, which might make it feel less impersonal/objectifying for her.
EmmaLiz @31: "There is nothing more off-putting and more likely to increase the feeling that you are being objectified than for someone to repeatedly ask you to do something with your body that you don't like doing." THANK YOU. So it's not doggy style that's objectifying per se, it's asking repeatedly for a position she's said she does not enjoy. Anyone would feel objectified by that.
Maris @33, some penis owners do. Re @37, your experience sounds exceptional to me, I've had few partners who wanted to pull out. But then again most of my partners were wearing condoms; pulling out, removing a condom and ejaculating on someone sounds really inconvenient.
John @38, I have met some outliers. Also, ejaculations don't happen in one go. There are several spurts and it may take multiple swallows to down it all.
Raindrop @40, I think that was commenter @3's point.
Lava @41: "And do women demand men continue giving oral until they orgasm." Um... yes?
Tensor @43: Indeed, some women do ejaculate. And given a sample size of one versus several here, it's MUCH more than men do.
Donny @46, see EmmaLiz's excellent comments @24 and @31 for why some women find doggy style objectifying. Basically, he's looking at your ass, you're looking at the wall, the lack of mutuality is what makes this position make some women feel as if they're being objectified. (Objectify him in the mirror is my solution.)
Oh, another doggy style tip is a vibrating cock ring, that helps since as EmmaLiz says one's own hands are rarely available for clit stimulation while you're balancing yourself on your knees.
I don’t see how not being able to see one’s partner equals being objectified. It’s a position which as the name implies is how many animals fuck. Maybe that link is what leads to feelings of being objectified.
It is an animal using position, that’s the fun of it.
Hmm. RANDY says, "I would feel bad if she were doing something she wasn't comfortable with." Getting cum in her mouth clearly IS something she isn't comfortable with, but RANDY continues to ask her to do it, he doesn't feel bad at all. And she has no intention to try this some day. Neither of them is being honest here.
I have to disagree with many that say a penis removed from mouth at the moment of ejaculation is "ruined" - but that's just my personal experience. Frankly, almost all of my blow jobs have ended by my withdrawing at that time - generally because while most of my partners would likely have been willing to swallow, I don't think any would rather swallow. And since it literally makes no difference to me, it's an easy choice to make.
I do have a problem with the doggy style and the reasoning. Just like pretty much any other non-yoga requiring position, I don't think it should be exclusive or off the table.
Responding to LavaGirl@19, and her "cum is cum pussy is juice," I sort of agree although I think the big difference is that while you may taste pussy juice, nobody is standing there making you swallow it. Indeed, the closer analog is a serious squirter where, as we all know, the juice is pee (or at least, liquid released from the bladder). In that regard, I have definitely been in a position where I had no choice but to get a large volume in my mouth many times which I did end up swallowing. Did I enjoy it? It certainly didn't bother me in the moment and it was hot. I certainly never thought about jumping up, spitting it out and yelling "gross." In fact, I have told this partner (who was self conscious about the squirting and then, the amount, as it became more active over time) many times that it does not bother me AT ALL - I think its hot.
The point to all this is that I have the best sex when the partner I am with can change positions in the moment, get physical and messy and maybe touch/taste/swallow things we wouldn't necessarily think would normally be sexy or even clean in normal, everyday life. It's fun to be a little animalistic and raw (within reason). The idea of someone freaking out if a little cum or pussy juice gets in their mouth is the antithesis of what I am looking for. It is the attitude that matters more than the specific act.
I’ve never expected a man to give me oral till I orgasm, Fan. Sucking cock till orgasm, seems a waste of a good erection a vagina might be hungry for. Ocassionally, a blow job like doggie style can be part of the menu.
These expectations I’m reading. You must blow me. You must swallow.
Oh, it’s standard now, what’s wrong with you girl. How many ways do men think they can try this line on women. Obviously it still works, because as Fan says @54, lies are going on here. Especially from the woman. He’s using coercion.
That is not what sex is about. Do this, do that. If you don’t, tough luck finding men who will want you!
Fuck that shit.
I can see where this woman pulling his cock out just on orgasm would be a shock to him, and she should stop that one. Pull his cock out before that point, and finish him off by hand. She doesn’t want his come in her mouth. Him pushing and her making up yes I will sometime plans, is a dead end. No blame.
If a person sucks cock to orgasm, what does it matter what they do with the ejaculate. There seems a psychological issue in this. Why is it so important to a man that his come is swallowed.
@57 lava - agreed she's being generous to this man if it's the demeaning aspect she's against re swallowing.
If it's the prostoglandins (they affect everyone but differ by day/guy) then it's dose dependant, so a little is ok but you want to avoid as much as possible.
Doubt it's the demeaning aspect she's really using to justify the not swallowing. It's unreasonable to expect it given both the taste and the occasional digestive consequences. To those who claim it's ruining their orgasm - you can do it without taking your mouth off the guys cock, there's no disconnection of feeling, I'd be surprised he could tell if he wasn't looking.
L Hand @55, what if your partners preferred to swallow? Some don't mind it and are happier not to have to clean up a mess afterwards. Did you ask them?
And no one who spits out your cum should jump up or yell "gross." That's a DTMFA level shaming move right there.
Lava @56, it depends on how long it takes to get to orgasm. I'm really quick. If a person can't get me off with oral they really aren't trying.
Lava @57, but how does she know when his orgasm is imminent? Sometimes the only way one knows is when the semen appears. I can see that asking someone to stop sucking and use their hand would make a blowjob a lot less fun, and potentially prevent him from coming. If he wanted a hand job he'd have asked for one. If you're capable of getting him off with your mouth why stop? (I agree, I can't see how coming in a mouth would be lessened by their not swallowing. Did they suck you to orgasm, Y/N. If N, did they get you off some other way, Y/N. If Y to either question, stop complaining. If N to either question, did they do their best. Sucking cock CAN be a job, a jaw-aching job. Not everyone can manage to do it to completion. Not applicable in this case, though, since this woman can with this man.)
Interesting word, no@58. Demeaning. I was thinking more controlling, subjugating.
It’s baby making fluid after all, it packs a punch.
Sound Fan. A man’s sound changes as he gets closer, and she can be kissing him, as she finishes him off.
It’s her body, her mouth, she gets to decide what goes into it. How often do straight men swallow their own or anyone else’s ejaculate? Right.
LavaGirl@61 Seriously, you pulled out the her body, her mouth b.s.? Everybody on here knows that it's THEIR body (regardless of gender) and their decision what to do or not do with it. We are talking about consensual acts and what should be expected. To pull out the hyperbole is really beneath you (or so I thought).
L Hand @62, this sort of hyperbole is unfortunately not beneath Lava, it's classic Lava. It's what she does. Of course if you've got a cock in your mouth and the guy starts to ejaculate (some do not in fact make noise to announce this), you can pull it out and aim the load elsewhere. Indeed, no one was arguing otherwise.
BDF@59 Of course, if someone prefers to swallow, I am fine with it. In fact, the few times it has happened has been because my partner said I want to swallow (or I want to swallow this time). Of course, that made it hot (and memorable) - not because the orgasm itself was any better, but it because it was different and even a little transgressive (at least for her).
By the way, reading letters like this often leave me bewildered - I don't identify with either party. First, if I were the LW, I am not sure how much I would enjoy doing those two things with partner knowing that she hated them, was doing it just to please me, AND (and it's a big AND) was actively disgusted during and after the act. Second, as the LW's partner, I can't understand being so opposed to what, at least in my experience, are two pretty minor asks that she wouldn't be willing and eager to do both of them at least every now and then AND (another big AND) and get off herself by the joy it is giving her partner despite the fact that she really doesn't enjoy the specific act.
Obviously, these are two sides of the same coin and are just another way to describe GGG. Maybe I have been lucky so far - or maybe I just have only had one mediocre experience with partners that don't feel like I do and moved on on my own - but pretty much all of my repeat partners seem to feel like I do.
I probably already said this several of the times this was re-run.
For me, it's what happens /while/ I cum which is critical, because that is the period of peak sensation, so...
"If someone sucks your dick until you come, you got your damn blowjob."
For me that's essentially a hand job preceded by a period of blowing, in other words...
"after the blowjob is over"
I find Dan's response lacking critical nuance, talking about the periods before one starts and after one concludes, but not the all-fucking-important period of /during/.
Each time this re-prints I find myself imagining that the period 'during' must for some reason not be for Dan what it is for most.
Oh yes, I forgot having previously added that there's a great reason that in porn stopping completely is called ruined orgasm. But thankfully this is not that, it's all down to the hand job he ends up with.
"In my experience it’s been the men that want to pull out"
They're trained to thus self-defeat (by trading pussy-stimulation for handjob while cuming) by porn.
And yes everyone, 'spitting it out' is besides the point. Feel effing free /after/, no one should care!
@51 BDF regarding the stomach, I thought the same thing and almost said something about it then thought I'd be accused of making unfair assumptions, etc, but given that specific detail and the general sense that both the LW and the girlfriend aren't really comfortable / skillful with exploration of new things, my guess is that he's laying on his back and she's leaning over him so when he pulls out really fast at the last moment, that's where the cum goes. Every Single Time.
RE: Ruined orgasm. Look I'm not arguing that completing in mouth or in vagina or whatever feels better than completing in other ways. I'll let the penis havers talk about that. But a ruined orgasm is when you bring someone to the brink of it and then STOP- not switch to something new. Moving between mouth and hands is totally normal in a blow job and hopefully you don't all do it/ receive it the exact same way each time. And starting to come in mouth, pausing for a microsecond while continuing to cum by a hand is not - by definition- a ruined orgasm. It's a totally normal and common orgasm from a blow job. If it's not the technique you prefer you have every right to seek out what you want, offer feed back to your partner, etc, and since this isn't a big ask, my guess is you'll find a partner who will adjust technique for your preference, but it's just bullshit to say it's a ruined orgasm. OK that was point one- now for two, I have to say that some of the descriptions above sound like you guys don't know what pull-out is. I'm sure it can be frustrating to have to think about anything while you are having an orgasm, but pull-out is not when you start to have an orgasm and stop, but rather when you move your dick a few inches (out of whatever it's inside) just as you are about to cum. You guys are talking about THREE different things: a) a blow job that requires manual stimulation to finish, b) pulling out right as you cum which does not require manual stimulation, c) ruined orgasm which is when it's disrupted altogether.
Again, the reasons these petty distinctions matter is because there's a long history of women being told that withholding a particular sex act actually hurts a man (blue balls for example) so when you change "I did not have an orgasm in exactly the way I prefer to have one" to "You ruined my orgasm by not letting me cum in your mouth" you are stepping in that same shit.
This is a great example of how toxic masculinity is enforced:
LW has desires X and Y, which his partner doesn't want to provide. While most LW's would hear from Dan that their desires are valid and that they should consider moving on from a partner who doesn't provide them, this LW is accused of "whining" and "he should be happy with what he gets". Of course, this LW is a straight male, so he gets the dregs.
Sportlandia@68 I know this is a waste of time, but toxic masculinity is a LW saying he only enjoys a blow job when it is finished by swallowing. The issue isn't that bad guys exist (they do and this LW is probably one of them), it's assuming that all (or most) guys are bad because guys like this exist.
Heck, I am even willing to admit that men make up a significantly greater percent of truly awful human beings and that truly awful men tend to do more damage than the awful women because our society currently (although to a lesser extent than it used to be) affords them that opportunity. But I don't think the number is so large that every man deserves to be painted with that brush just because of it.
Congrats on your @69 L Hand!
"pausing for a microsecond while continuing to cum by a hand is not"
Thank you, a microsecond! Please do minimize the time interval of transition to handjob!
"b) pulling out right as you cum which does not require manual stimulation"
If one pulls out before the cumming starts, and there is no more stimulation, that sounds like
"c) ruined orgasm"
to me...which is part of why find it hard to relate to wanting to use the "pull out method" instead of using a condom.
"the reasons these petty distinctions matter is because there's a long history of women being told that withholding a particular sex act actually hurts a man"
I hear you EL, right on. I don't mean to in any way distract from that by attempting to optimize "these petty distinctions"!
No, Sporty. He is whining. She doesn’t want what he wants and doesn’t seem like she’s going to change her mind. Accept reality and move on. Or, accept reality and stay. If you have discussed a make or break situation with your partner and they refuse to make a reasonable accommodation, you have a decision to make. You only get the “dregs” if you choose to get the dregs, white male or not (and what a disturbing way to view life)
EmmaLiz@67~ “...women being told that withholding a particular sex act actually hurts a man (blue balls for example)...”
I’d like to clarify for anyone scoffing about this... blue balls IS an actual thing and it does hurt/ache (Sometimes for hours) usually after a long period of intense stimulation with no climax. Been there, done that. So, please don’t imply that this is a made up thing that men just say. BUT. Blaming it on the woman is an asshole move, guys. YOU chose to put your own balls in the vice. Spank the monkey when you get home (or on your way home- or before you leave home re: “Something About Mary”)- don’t try to guilt her into doing something she doesn’t want to do.
@67/EmmaLiz: RANDY states, "it it disappoints me when she takes my dick out of her mouth and points it at my stomach when I start to come." Fairly read, this don't imply Ms. Randy continues to to stroke RANDY through his orgasm. He says, when I start to come, she points my dick at my stomach. Full stop.
What does that sound like? As you wrote, "When you bring someone to the brink of it and then STOP- not switch to something new."
Later you write, "pull-out is not when you start to have an orgasm and stop, but rather when you move your dick a few inches (out of whatever it's inside) just as you are about to cum." You are again writing about men's sexual experiences, from the perspective of what they feel in terms of sexual pleasure from different stimuli. How are you able to speak about what either of those experiences feels like or how they compare?
"This is a great example of how toxic masculinity is enforced"
This is the Toxic Masculinity Police. Get out of your car and put your hands behind your head sir.
We saw you behaving in a healthy manner. You're under arrest.
It is toxic masculinity to refer to a woman as dregs.
@62, yes I did pull that out. Just a reminder to all.
And you kind sir, are you straight? If so have you swallowed your own come, before demanding/ expecting someone else does.
A lot here are not talking about consensual anything. They are talking coercion and expectations.
Fan. And what is it you do around here? Maybe if you stopped defining everyone else, we might get a clue.
Hands up, who thinks the following letter:
"Dear Dan, I'm a healthy woman and a squirter. My boyfriend goes down on me, but he doesn't like getting his face soaked so just as I'm about to come he stops and rubs my clit with his thumb. Tell him he needs to take one for the team and let me squirt in his face" would have got a different response?
(watches one hand belonging to Sportlandia go up)
Sublime @73 / Emma Liz @67, there is only projection to fill in the blank of whether she is stroking his dick while he comes on his belly versus just letting it squirt. The letter does not say.
IJWTS that I, having gone on about the period /while/ a dick is cumming, absolutely do know the guy can jolly well do his own handjob and not be all judgey about being owed it and shit.
That latter attitude would remind me of the toxic masculine trip about taking full credit and fully self-congratulating himself when a woman orgasms as though her O is primarily about his glory.
p.s. Hey, ya know what just fixed my long-time issue of not auto-logging in? Logging out then in again. ("Have you tried turning it off and on again?")
" there is only projection to fill in the blank of whether she is stroking his dick while he comes on his belly versus just letting it squirt."
True. And I confess to being displeased by this important emission. Er, Omission.
I also think that people tend to omit that which does not help their case, so if she were concluding with an expert handjob I bet against him saying so.
There’s no compromise L- Hand, when we’re talking other people’s bodies. Nor should there be expectation that certain sexual acts are ‘standard.’
Request and answer is what a mutually agreed at behaviour looks like. She doesn’t owe him to swallow his come, as she doesn’t owe him to enjoy doggy style sex. Yet all thru this thread are men seemingly coming from that position.
Yes, people should try activities, see if they enjoy them. This woman doesn’t want to. That much is clear.
She doesn’t want come in her mouth, let alone swallow it. She doesn’t want sex that way. It feels objectifying to her.
Rather than accept that he’s not gonna make it much farther with his gf, the LW writes in with some double standard bull, trying to pin some blame on this woman, justifying his coercive tactics.
Like I said, her body her choices.
I'm curious, so I was wondering if the men on this board who are all in on ejaculating into their partner's mouth at the end of a blow job would answer a few questions.
First, have you ever tasted your own ejaculate? If so, how often?
Second, how do you feel about kissing the person giving you a blow job immediately after your cum has ended up in the mouth of said person? I seem to recall discussions in which objections have been raised in the past. I could be wrong.
Lastly, how would you feel if every time your partner gave you a blow job to completion, and while they still had your ejaculate in their mouth, they kissed you and transferred your cum into your mouth for you to swallow?
Seriously I get that penis-havers only have one penis, but I don't believe you guys don't know how pull out works. So all of you who pull out, have to jack your dick to keep cumming?
Also Curious, again I find your passive aggressive side the least likable of your online personality but of course it is not a popularity contest and my opinions are only that. But yes, it's not a minimization. It's like you've never had a blow job. This is going to shock you, but I can suck a dick AND touch it with my hand at the same time, so the transition between the dick being in my mouth and being in my hand is literally seamless- there is no elapsed time in which the dick stops being stimulated at all. A microsecond is generous.
Finally, yes a "ruined orgasm" is an actual thing with a definition, a sex act, not just a description of an orgasm that was messed up. If people here meant the latter but said the former, then I apologize for understanding the words you used rather than the ones you meant in your mind (only I don't really apologize, I'm just displaying how annoying passive aggression is).
Donny I didn't say it was a myth. I said men suggesting that women withholding a sex act causes them pain. Which we are in agreement on btw. If you are a man who is going to feel pain if you need to ejaculate, then go jack it baby!
Sublime, since she points his dick at his stomach AND HE CUMS it sounds like he simply pulls out at the last minute and HAS AN ORGASM. As I said.
Yet again, I see nothing wrong with this man preferring his blow jobs a certain way and requesting that, and I also think this is such a standard request that most conscientious partners would have no problem with it, though I agree it's a little strange that he cares if she swallows or spits (like why?) but whatever- he will not have trouble finding women who do this. But I think it's really weird for men here to claim that pulling out immediately before one cums (something I've seen dicks do literally hundreds of times during PIV) and then cumming outside requires some pause or extra stimulation, or that if extra stimulation is required that it requires a disruption - like hands and mouths don't coordinate- or that any of this is the same as a "ruined orgasm" which is literally the stopping of an orgasm, not the continuing of one in a different place or with a different technique. This whole conversation is just so bizarre to me.
LavaGirl@80 So you really are THAT girl. >
Also given the introduction of kissing after blowing now to the conversation, I am going to cause a distraction (I point over at Curious and say, Look guys! Curious bought a bag of dicks to the party!) and while your heads are turned, I'm going to climb out the window and run far far away.
"I don't believe you guys don't know how pull out works. So all of you who pull out, have to jack your dick to keep cumming?"
No, of course we keep cumming (that's where the technical term ejaculatory inevitability comes from). But without stimulation there's like one tenth of one percent of the pleasure (aka "ruined").
"Curious, again I find your passive aggressive side the least likable of your online personality"
Thanks for mentioning this again and including the term PA. This time I realize I don't even know what you're talking about. Do feel free to specify; I wouldn't be surprised if you're taking offense I didn't intend and hope to dispel.
"it's really weird for men here to claim that pulling out immediately before one cums (something I've seen dicks do literally hundreds of times during PIV) and then cumming outside requires some pause or extra stimulation"
I see that happen in porn and I wonder what the hell is going on with them. Usually I think IRL it would be porn-induced idiocy. Then there's some (who've posted in past threads) for whom stimulation while cumming is 'too intense'; for them I hope there's some approach that could help.
p.s. "ejaculatory inevitability" as in "passing the point/threshold of ejaculatory inevitability"; the point beyond which it /will/ happen.
p.p.s. it is true that sometimes instead of attacking someone I've had a bloody history of warface with I will make a relatively vague and diplomatic allusion instead to disagree bloodlessly. But I don't think I've /ever/ done that to you, EL. And I sense you think I am, at times/in comments I don't have you in mind.
Which girl is that L Hand? A woman of the feminism of the 60’s/70’s, being much older than most here, I’ve had many stages of life experiences, I have my own point of view?
Negotiate with partners, not coerce or badger or give the old ‘ other women do it.’ Is the relationship with a woman about her, as a person, with all her faults and dislikes, or Whether she swallows or not?
Easy enough for a man to ask a woman soonish into a relationship about her preferences, as she could ask him, his. Trying to force women to do sexual behaviours, via whichever manipulation tactic comes to hand, is treating her as patriarchy intends him too. She’s there for his service.
@69 you are completely and totally wrong. There is nothing toxically masculine about preferring X or Y sexual behavior. That's just called being a human. The consistent barrage of "don't complain, don't let anyone know you have needs or desires", however, /is/ the drumbeat of toxic masculinity. Which is what is happening here.
@75 is reading comprehension part of it? Based on last week, you're not qualified to interpret, well, anything. But as in this case and so many others: You're reading it wrong. It's not my job to raise you to a 5th grade reading understanding level.
@77 Would your LW be called, in the first sentence of their reply from Dan, a whiner? How long do you think it will take for me to a find a female LW who is disappointed her partner doesn't do X, and Dan treating that desire like it's valid, rather than dismissed and diminished?
@81 I dislike bodily fluids in general. I don't want to ingest my own or anyone else's. I find it hot if a girl wants to swallow/have my cum in her mouth, that's great - different strokes for different folks. If not, for me, oh well, there are other activities I enjoy and if it came down to it, I can always see someone else. No, I don't want to kiss or snowball afterward. If that were something my partner were seriously in to, we wouldn't be partners.
Lava @80, I disagree that there should be no expectation that certain acts are standard. You may as well just say that there should be no expectation of sex. Most of us find sex an important component of our relationships, otherwise they may as well just be friendships. I think it's reasonable to expect oral sex as "standard," but if someone will not provide it, the solution is not to hound or pressure them to do so, it's to break up because you are not compatible. It's called having a dealbreaker.
JibeHo @81, straight men should not be expected to swallow cum. Neither should lesbians. So don't worry, you're off the hook here.
Comparing her current actions to her ex-boyfriend is a lousy thing to do. Not because the comparison is accurate or not, just because using some past relationship against her in any way is kinda lousy and you should just stop doing it. Do you really expect her to say, "you're so right, it's exactly like that, let me take that load in my mouth next time, for the sake of consistency."
If she is really ending an otherwise successful blowjob by pointing at your stomach, you two need to work on your technique. Maybe she won't take a load in her mouth, but there are lots of other perfectly acceptable ways to end a blowjob. She has hands, feet, a butt crack, maybe cleavage, you two should be able to figure out something that might not be #1 or #2 on your list but would still work. Use your words and tell her things are great until the end but that you've got some ideas you'd like to run by her and see if she's got any ideas. You two should also have fun trying, there is oral sex involved after all. It'd also be good to ask if there's something that could improve your oral game.
Also, doggie style is pretty specific, try "from behind" and work through the huge number of variations that enables. Think of it as an opportunity to expand rather than just that you're not getting what you want. If she's saying that anything from behind is objectifying, and not in a fun way, that's odd. If only doggie style works for you, that's equally odd. If either of these are the case, it's probably time to walk away as you two seem more about having orgasms on your terms than just having orgasms.
BiDanFan @90 Don't feel that you need to address each and every one of my comments. I wasn't asking you a question, and you don't know me. I was in a heterosexual relationship early in my life, and I did give blow jobs! I even swallowed! I've also fucked a guy doggy style and enjoyed it immensely.
You are all over the "if you want to fuck her in the ass, then you should be up for some pegging" advice whenever the subject presents itself here. I was just curious if the insistence that a woman accept ejaculate in her mouth, and or swallow, was a double-standard with straight men, as they wouldn't do the same themselves.
The ejaculate I've tasted, in my admittedly short but vigorous career, (from a healthy non-smoking vegetarian of 17 - 19 years old, and a couple of other guys of unknown provenance) was at best - slightly bitter. I admit a prejudice here, as I find that, with a few memorable exceptions, pussy juice (for lack of a better term) is heavenly.
Generally, I don't think you should ask your partner to do something you aren't willing to do yourself. As I know that you can drive a truck through that "generally", please spare me all of the "but what abouts?".
So we've heard from Sportlandia. Now how about Dadddy and curious2 and IWasSfR and SublimeAfterGlow and L Hand? Snowballing cool with you?
Jibe, I'm not sure how snowballing would apply to me? I just swallow. I've no desire to spit it back into his mouth. I don't like it at all to be kissed after he's eaten me, which is the closest equivalent I can come up with. Is that what you meant?
I just realized the other commenters you picked are all male. Did you think I was a man? I'm a woman and I thought the pregnancy details were enough to clue in anyone who might not already know that. Sorry for the confusion.
@81 "I was wondering if the men on this board who are all in on ejaculating into their partner's mouth at the end of a blow job"
@92 "Now how about...curious2..."
Wait, you're talking to /me/? All that I was "all in" about was articulating some specifics about male sexuality WRT blow jobs.
(Which is quite on topic here in a human sexuality-centered column, and quite valuable since one typically only knows what it is to be the sex one is. I know I can't get enough of learning about female sexuality.)
In that vein, a thing crucial to male pleasure that BJs have over handjobs is warmth. (But still not as much as a pussy.) Handjobs are nice, BJs are nicer, but I'm fine with neither. Or with a handjob instead of a blowjob if you prefer.
Curious, I took your comment to me about please minimize to be sarcastic and passive aggressive. Which is fine, my response to you was more joshing than it came across I see. I was this time (and last) trying to reference our past conversation about the usefulness of showing respect and being polite (with you arguing for and me against) followed a few days later by you directing some really harsh words, rude and angry, at an undeserving LW (can't remember details now) which I found very amusing - the Incredible Hulk is my favorite superhero. So I was just trying to joke around with you that's all. Upon reflection, it just makes me a bitchy shit-stirrer and I apologize for giving that tendency have a longer leash than I should.
RANDY clearly lacks respect for his partner. If she's tried both things and doesn't like them, that's her decision, and she shouldn't be pressured. There's plenty more things to enjoy with each other. If it's a deal-breaker for him, they need to separate.
It sounds like she doesn't like cum in her mouth at all (mention of swallowing is a red herring) - maybe the taste or texture, or maybe when it hits the back of her throat (causing gagging reflex).
And doggie style can be uncomfortable, especially if he's just pounding away. With spread ass cheeks, it also puts everything in full view, which she might not be comfortable with, or it could be the extra queefing in that position, due to the angle of the vagina. Or maybe it is just the disconnect - he's back there enjoying himself, no offer of a reach-around, and she's left staring at the wall. Can certainly make you feel objectified, as this feels like it's being done to you rather than participatory - compared to many other sex positions where you can mutually kiss and stroke each other more easily.
Personally, I'm happy to kiss no matter what's been in my or my partner's mouth. However, I know one guy who won't kiss his partner after a BJ (no cum)!
EL @82 "So all of you who pull out, have to jack your dick to keep cumming?"
No idea about "all of you", but speaking just for myself, yes. If not, the result is either no orgasm or a "ruined orgasm".
Looking back at it I see why you heard it that way:
me@70 "Thank you, a microsecond! Please do minimize the time interval of transition to handjob!"
I think my worst mistake was the exclamation marks, because
I truly, good-heartedly meant to be praising you. It makes me sad that I was recieved a way I truly didn't intend.
It bums me out how difficult tone is in writing. And I probably suck at imbuing writing with tone.
I really just saw myself in this thread as injecting some useful data into the matter. I totally see how, given toxic masculinity being such a thing, people like you and our good JibeHo would think I personally had an unhealthy attitude--beyond the simple data--about the topic.
I also want to thank you just for responding, because I honestly do feel bad that I hurt you and did honestly want to know what I might have done wrong.
And I felt bad that @85@86 I bandied about the concept 'point of ejaculatory inevitability' as though it was something someone without a penis should know. This undermined the very informativeness I was aiming for. I think I got there because I got ruffled by your being ruffled by what I now see was my poor use of written tone.
Again I truly thank you for not just washing your hands of this all. It means a lot to me that you took the time to point me to what I blew. I think you and I both like to debate enough and wordplay enough that in writing it's easy for tone to go off the rails. It takes strength, and I thank you, for putting the train back on the track.
Ever since BiDanFan thanked me @13 for my "unintentional pun"@1 in the column the same day as this, I've been knocking myself out with intended entendre. But I guess we have not been entertained.
@98 Registered European
Ooops, by cumming I thought we only meant ejaculating semen. Certainly that continues ("inevitability" and all) even if stimulation ceases, right? It's just the orgasm I think that's diminished by orders or magnitude. And I see now, sorry, that "cumming" encompasses both the semen ejaculating and the orgasm.
Curious, my dude, this has nothing to do with toxic masculinity nor anything you said/did and you did not hurt me. I literally just built up an idea of you as a sort of Hulk like figure- my own bias being that people who go out of their way to take the reasonable well-mannered respectful agree-to-disagree stance in most situations have some rage/horror beneath the surface that polite facade, which is something we had a conversation about and then afterwards you went off on an LW in a really insulting way which made me find you a more interesting and intriguing person because I'm spending too much time online and probably stirring shit. I apologize for that, but don't take shit on yourself. I was mostly just being a bitch.
Adding to DK’s @ 72 “blue balls IS an actual thing and it does hurt/ache (Sometimes for hours) usually after a long period of intense stimulation with no climax.”
Sensations may vary from one set of testicles to another. While it can be defined as “pain” the intensity seems to differ as well as the expectations.
For me that sometimes frustrating feeling and heightened sensitivity may also mean a buildup I should attempt to reserve for the next opportunity of release as this one, when handled right, is likely to be a more intense climax, very possibly a bigger load than usual, and also shoot further away in case visuals matter to any of the participants.
And please, please, please, cup the balls and handle them gently yet playfully before, during, and after.
"my own bias being that people who go out of their way to take the reasonable well-mannered respectful agree-to-disagree stance in most situations have some rage/horror beneath the surface that polite facade"
I don't know if I'm The Hulk I'd like to be for you.
I do know that IRL one of my practices has always been to be someone no one wants to F with (and this served me /extremely/ well professionally), and in that spirit, sometimes when I'm interacting with one of the very few people here that is shitty to interact with, I've 'gone off' on them. It's not fun, but we usually avoid each other now so maybe it worked. While that isn't so much my 'Hulk" as a strategy...perhaps part of the reason I became who I am is that I prefer not to be in conflict. And I guess that might be about my having some "Hulk" after all?
So I guess I'm agnostic regarding your Hulk theory.
curious2 @99 "Ooops, by cumming I thought we only meant ejaculating semen. Certainly that continues ("inevitability" and all) even if stimulation ceases, right? It's just the orgasm I think that's diminished by orders or magnitude. "
Yes, correct. Semen sort of dribbles out instead of being "ejaculated" if stimulation stops just after the "point of inevitability". As far as I know, that is what is defined as a "ruined orgasm".
@103 Registered European
"Semen sort of dribbles out instead of being "ejaculated" if stimulation stops just after the "point of inevitability"
Hmm. I don't think it necessarily (though maybe I'm remembering wrong, thankfully not much "ruined" experience) if it dribbles instead of launching like a rocket, I just know that "ruined orgasm" is when the orgasmic sensations are orders of magnitude less. And certainly the thing that's 'ruined' in a "ruined orgasm" is the orgasm. But yes I bet you're right, the orgasmic contractions are what does the launching, so lesser would result in less launch. But again, the lesser launch is just a side of lesser orgasm.
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