That's funny! Did you make that up yourself? You're a real original!

Socialism is dead in the country that practically invented it.

Watch the Dems follow the same stupid path in the USA.

Corbyn was extremely unpopular in the UK, and parliamentary systems are capable of producing dramatic changes. Canada’s Liberals were on their death bed at the beginning of this decade, and then Trudeau led them to a majority in 2015.

If moderates are the only viable candidates, then let us know how the presidencies of Al Gore, John Kerry, and Hillary Clinton worked out for you.

Another interpretation is that like so many U. S. presidential elections, it isn't about ideology, it is about who voters like more (or hate the least). Corbyn was not popular for reasons that had little to do with being on the left. Like Hillary Clinton (and Al Gore, George H. W. Bush, Michael Dukakis and Jimmy Carter) he lost not because his policies were unpopular -- quite the contrary. He lost because the voters liked the other guy more. As hard as it is fathom, people (in crucial states anyway) liked Donald Trump more than Hillary Clinton. In much of the U. K., they liked Johnson more than Corbyn. Ideology is less important than personality. Nominating a moderate (like Dukakis) would be just as bad as nominating an unpopular leftist (like McGovern).

Mmmm quoting exit polls and stirring up shit saying maybe we shouldn't be so progressive? Sounds like Hillary Clinton pays Charles salary because he posts some of the most out of touch :poop:

How sad. People are stupid. Dumbed down by reality TV and Maccas.

Oh crap. If Mudede is urging us to all move to the right, we’re in serious trouble. Let’s not gloss over this.

"How sad. People are stupid"

Or maybe they remember the last time Labour's hard left bankrupted Britain (even with 80% marginal tax rates on the rich) and sent James Callaghan to the IMF "cap in hand".

One has to marvel at how Vladimir Putin figured out that while he’d never defeat the West with military or economic forces, all he had to do was activate the sociopathic racism and xenophobia of the US and UK’s hate-crazed old white people, and they’ll slit their own throats and destroy our countries from the inside as long as they get to stick it to the homos and people of color first.

@10 Labour got crushed at the polls. You think Putin swung the vote that hard? Your denialism is beyond delusional.

@8 Yes, but Labour went down in flames with their pronouns all correct.

@ 11,

He didn’t have to. All he had to do was promote his candidates, Tr666p in the US and Johnson in the UK, Twitter Dumb and Twitter Dumber, and useful idiot conservative voters did all the dirty work for him. Impressive, and now these two moronic buffoons are driving both countries over a cliff.

I would draw a completely different conclusion.
It is the power of the charismatic individual who can drive the news cycle.
Jeremy Corbyn has anti-charisma. Hilary Clinton had anti-charisma.

We need to acknowledge that Johnson and Trump have it as well- they command attention, we dote on their words, they are in the news every day and in the headlines once a week.
It is an elusive quality, difficult to define precisely, but self-evident in those that possess it.
Obama definitely had it.
It is not by accident that Republicans advance celebrities. Liberals hobble themselves by their reluctance to do it.
Someone like Linda Ronstadt is wonderful at speaking truth to power, but why not take some responsibility and use that name recognition?
I realize Linda has Parkinson's, but the point stands- our cultural life is filled with intelligent, principled people who have won public acceptance yet eschew politics. So it gets left to the Jeremy Corbyns and Joe Bidens and Patty Murrays. Crap.
I mean, no wonder Kshama got re-elected, at least she is lively and controversial. Voters respond to that.
History is made by dynamic individuals, not party apparatchiks.

@8, I'm reading how this will be played out in the mainstream. I was not expressing my opinion, except that i find this reading and the results of the election depressing.

"The Pendulum swings."

Actually it's the "Swingometer".

Its fun when people comment on elections in foreign countries and use those outcomes as evidence they were right about everything all along.

@17 - Republicans have an easier time because their coalition is more streamlined - social reactionaries, crony capitalists and bougie suburbanites who care more about their taxes than abortion. These groups mostly can avoid stepping on each other's tails without a lot of wrangling.

Actually, old school, big, centralised state socialism was the big loser today.

7: When was this golden age of voter enlightenment you refer to?

Like others said, elections are decided on personality.

Fascism or democratic Socialism?
I'll take B.

@24 Fascism where? I was just in Spokane last week, didn't see any there. Same for Denver when I was there in October. Maybe I'll see some in Florida over Christmas?

"I'll take B."

Shame they lost in Blighty.

@26. You have a point. Johnson is actually anti-Semitic and the ad proves it. But that was not mentioned in the mainstream press. When it came to anti-Semitism, it was all about Corbyn.

Of course, Labour was in the lead until 5pm when Conservative voters got off work and voted.

Charles: many moderates, centrists, and center-leftists have for years made the argument you make in this article. And writers in The Stranger essentially refer to them as cowards, corporate sell-outs, wimps, and phonies. Finding the best balance between individualism and communitarianism and between capitalism and socialism is difficult. How about you, Lester, Rich, and many others at The Stranger recognize some common ground with more moderate thinkers instead of mocking, name-calling, and stereotyping? How about finding and building on common ground (e.g., the desire to defeat Trump) and not obsess over every difference to parade your ostensible moral superiority to moderates? Is basic civility and respectfulness to much to ask from writers at The Stranger? We need to defeat Trump, and it is highly unlikely someone on the far left could defeat him. Saying this does not make a person a coward, sell-out, soulless pragmatist, or compassionless corporatist. It's basic common sense. That's a GOOD place to start, and need not reflect placative cowardice. Here's to defeating--indeed, crushing--Trump next November (assuming he's still in office). Let's get at it--and that means showing some respect for centrists and center-leftists instead of indulging untrue, unfair stereotypes in article after article.

Hi. I’m in the EU right now. Was in the UK on Tuesday. This isn’t a rejection of “socialism” since the average UK voter has no more idea what that is than the dipshit trolls in here. In the days leading up to the vote poll after poll showed massive support for the UK’s socialized institutions, particularly the NHS and rabid opposition to privatization. So of course the morons in here have no fucking idea what their talking about.

No follow much of the same dynamic that we see in the US national elections. Young people don’t vote. Old people are susceptible to fake news. And of course identity politics. Also this was a rejection of personally, who is a tepid, dull campaigner, and deeply stupid man who half supports Brexit half the time. People here just want Brexit over. Of course they don’t understand it. That British political side of Brexit is just the entry phase. There is still three more years of leaving the EU entirely up to the Continent. The Brexiters are fixated with a delusional view of Britain as still an empire instead of a barely relevant backwater that only clings to relevance as a place to sink money into London real estate and a declining predatory financial center - and all that is now moving to the EU.

My relatives who voted Brexit have no idea what it means but think it has something to do with British independence and ascendence somehow. And of course keeping the darkies out. They don’t understand the mechanics or consequences.

But they will.

@27, I don't know what ad you're referring to, but I've not heard one Jew claim that Johnson is anti-Semitic (and yes, I know a number of Jews, being one). Corbyn, on the other hand, has been proven in many instances to be anti-Semitic. He's also a thoroughly unpleasant human being, which probably influenced the many British voters who don't care about anti-Semitism.

Rubbish.

This election was about Brexit. Jo Swinson lost her seat. The DUP got its ass kicked. The parties that opposed Brexit got their asses handed to them. Labour lost because it wasn’t explicitly in favor of Brexit.

Americans are reductive. We see every political battle entirely through the lens of identity politics. Well, if you think this election was about Corbyn being seen as anti Semitic, why did his party do so well in the election just before this one?

Economics. Not identity politics. Economics. Money. That’s what this was about. That’s ultimately what every election is about. People voted to leave the EU for economic reasons. Corbyn could have taken a Left pro-Brexit position and won. Instead, he took a mushy, vague position nobody really understood. England wants out of the EU, and they want to leave now. If you tell them anything other than “I’ll get us out fast” you’ll lose. The Lib Dems-the most explicitly anti-Brexit party- lost over half their seats.

Scotland and NI want to stay in, which is why the SNP, Alliance and SF picked up seats. This election’s results mirror the referendum results.

Listen, when I’m getting robbed at gunpoint, it’s not like I look at the gunman and think, “Oh, well, it’s alright. At least the robber is white”. No, dumbass, getting robbed by anyone is horrible. Identity politics is total bullshit. The thing that sucks isn’t whether that gunman is Jewish or Muslim or gay or whatever, the thing that sucks is that there’s someone with a gun pointed at you.

The people of England voted to leave the EU, and they saw all parties working against that result as robbing them at gunpoint of their expressed popular will. This had nothing to do with antisemitism or people being called letterboxes.

Although I don't believe Labor could have won by supporting Brexit, @35 is correct that labor lost because its own constituency is deeply divided over the issue. There is evidence emerging that the so-called red wall failed due to part of the labor base staying home or voting for the Brexit party with conservatives picking up relatively few new votes. It is disturbing that no change in momentum occurred since the Brexit vote but we shouldn't be entirely surprised since Europe is still as controlled by neoliberals bankers as it was 2 years ago.

"Corbyn and the far left will exit the national stage tomorrow"

wtf? the far left? where? What are you talking about Charles as labor is certainly not far left?

@35 There is literally no economic gain for the average UK citizen to leave the EU. None. Zero. Express what the average working citizen of the UK will gain by leaving the EU? The economic benefit comes only to a very, very, narrow segment of predatory and frankly suicidal vulture capitalists in the UK, who, with the end of EU mandated labor and social regulations, will tear that country’s labor and social infrastructure apart. Almost every other sector of the UK economy is going to lose.

Look. You’re right that it was about Brexit. But Brexit is a symbol for identity. This mythical idea or the British identity.

Look. I’m from there. I’m here in the EU now. Americans have no concept of what this about and always attempt to retrofit their own cultural political hobby horse onto the UK. What is liberal and conservative here doesn’t map to there. But issues of racial anxiety and racial identity very much DO.

You guys don’t get it. The idea of belonging to the EU was a centrist to conservative idea purely for the economic benefits. The financial sector pushed hard for joining the EU.

And back in the day it was the Harold Wilson and the Labour left opposed to joining the then EC/EU. Because of the fear of cheap labor from the more economically suppressed Southern Europe.

The Conservatives/centrist and even Margaret Fucking Thatcher were FOR joining the EC ( later the EU), although she became a “euro skeptic” mostly due to pegging the currency to the German Mark.

And it wasn’t imposed on the populace. They had a fucking referendum back then in 1975 and 67% voted to join!

The parties only swapped stances when it turned out EU labor and environmental regulations favored the fucking working class and the Tories needed the crazies in UKIP to hold a majority.

And let’s not forget this happened simultaneously as the New World Order/Iraq war bullshit of the late 1990’s early 2000’s.

It was Tony god damned Blair, who was LABOUR, and his support for the invasion of Iraq and ass kissing to GW Bush that soured the UK working class on the Labour Party. The conservatives didn’t suddenly come up with great economics for the working class. And leaving the EU is certainly not going to help them.

Anyway. That’s when UKIP and all those reactionary dolts began with a purely identity based propaganda campaign back in the mid fucking 1990’s against the EU. It was the ENTIRE reason for the parties forming and existence and the Conservatives made a deal with those devils to get majority parliament not because they actually really wanted to leave. The second referendum to leave was to call UKIP’s bluff and it backfired.

It’s ALL identity. British white mythical empire bullshit identity not economic benefits that drive pro-Brexit voters. I know. I talk to them every fucking day.

And people always - ALWAYS - double down on stupid ideas. Think of the post Reconstruction Era south. They just got their ass kicked in a war, destroyed their economy, and then continued with backwards suicidal politics to this very day.

Losers always have to dragged kicking and screaming into progress. That’s why they are losers.

It’s going to be three more years for leaving the EU to be negotiated. And then at least two more after that for details to be shaken out and the consequences to be seen. So the idea that this was all about accelerating leaving the EU is farcical.

And every single economic forecast for the UK is dire as a consequence. That’s why nearly every major corporation is packing up headquarters and heading to the EU while they can.

Leaving the EU was a stupid, yet foregone, decision. And the working class of the UK is destined to become irrelevant, poor, and like that of a developing nation. The architects of Brexit are going loot that place and beat it before it all comes crashing down. Mark my words. The UK in 2024 will look nothing like the modern future forward UK of 2004. It won’t even be a U in the K. Scotland and Ireland will be gone. And they deserve it.

Kinda feels like history is repeating itself...

Wrong.

It says the SNP grew massively as a result of clearly talking about their own agenda, a leftist agenda, pro-EU.

Labour lost because they were wishy washy, and nobody respected their really awful "leader".

SNP crushed the Tories and the LDP.

Next time, be like the SNP.

39,

The SNP grew by around 1% of its existing seats. By what measure is this massive?

Good to see a lot of Champagne and Armchair Socialists licking their wounds this morning.

I'm for sure no expert on UK politics but an observation: 'revolutionary' progressive proposals are always going to be a hard sell when there is relative economic stability. The only time a large majority is going to get behind radical change is when there has been a major disruption to the status quo (i.e. 2008 in the US). Even many on the left who are mostly behind progressive priorities fear the consequences of upending the established way of going about things. Current Dem candidates should indeed take heed. Elizabeth Warren in particular should double down on her primary asset, which is competence, rather than her more ambitious proposals, especially as most of them have exactly zero chance of ever becoming reality.

So depressing. And here's the worst thing. The moderates can't hold power. What they are offering has failed the voters in every country in the world. No one wants it any more. This is why the radical right wing has taken power in the first place. So, voting for moderates does nothing to stop our rightward trend. It's just a temporary slowdown on the same trajectory.

Is there such a thing as a “likable socialist” because I’ve found most, just like Corbyn, are sanctimonious pricks.

Good Afternoon Charles,
Well after reading much about the UK election, I now believe this portends badly for the Dems in Nov. 2020. I was quite surprised at the Conservatives' gain. Seriously, I didn't think they would win that many seats.

That said in the USA, a Presidential Impeachment vote will pass in the House. A trial will ensue, the Senate will acquit and the Nation will be more divided than ever. Carl Hulse had a point. Impeachment may be the new norm:

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/analysis-in-a-polarized-era-will-impeachment-become-a-new-normal/

Yes, I believe it does not bode well for the Dems. Trump will be embarrassed but probably won't lose the election. Personally I think censure vs. impeachment would have been better for the Dems. Biden or any moderate must be at the top of the ticket to have any chance at defeating Trump. Obama himself a few weeks ago warned the Democratic Party must not swing too far to the Left. Americans don't want a "system" replaced. It is Dec. 2019, less than a year before the election and the Dems don't have a candidate. It's quite a conundrum.

@42, You nailed it.

@46 You either have very short memory or you are very stupid because without state intervention, the economy would likely have collapsed a mere 10 years ago.