Her Boyfriend Isn't Gay or Bi But He Is Sucking Dicks in Glory Holes

Comments

1

Why do all these homosexuals keep sucking my cock?

2

This reminds me if the 'asexual' who had tons of sex but asserted she was ace because she didn't need to, she just wanted to.

3

Straight men are obsessed with dicks, their own mostly but it easy to see that manifest itself in wanted to interact with other dick in a way that most men are unable to interact with their own. If more straight guys were able to self-suck straight guys would be sucking dick constantly.

I don't think it means he is gay, I think that he is just obsessed with dick, which is most straight guys and taken that obsession much further than most straight guys would be willing to do.

4

After reading that letter I get the impression that I know about as much about her boyfriend as she does.

5

I agree with Dan, DTMFA for his and your own good.

6

I'm kind of offended that he didn't make getting yourself tested point #1 and I am deeply disturbed by this woman's almost willingness to accept this mans sucking another mans dick.

There is nothing wrong with preferences and sure people who have been hiding in a closet should come out; this isn't coming out. He's basically bragging about it.

DTMF and wait 6months before you date another person so you can be tested and ensure you don't infect your new partner.

7

@ 6 - The window for HIV tests has considerably shrunk in the last 30 years. The latest generation can detect HIV after 3 weeks (in the best of cases), although I'd advise the LW to wait three months and only have protected sex until then, which will ensure she doesn't infect her partners. All other regular STIs can be tested for much earlier.

8

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA. GURL, PLEASE.

9

"He gave me a treatable STI already, but he says it was from a previous female partner."

In my experience, if he found out he had a treatable STI by getting tested, then he'd have told her to get treated, rather than tested. (Anyone have contrary experience? Where the primary sexual partner is told to get tested, rather than go straight to treatment?)

So I'm guessing she's the one who had symptoms, and discovered the STI. Which means he isn't getting tested, or isn't telling her about his positive test results.

I'd recommend she get a bunch more STI tests done, start using condoms with him, and continue to get tested on a regular schedule regardless of what he says he is or isn't doing.

10

Forget about the gender of the person your BF is performing oral sex on. You don't mention whether you guys have any sort of open arrangements regarding sex. Even if you do, given your concern, it's clear that having unprotected sex is not allowed under whatever terms you might have. He repeatedly engaged in this behavior without regard for you or your relationship and, from your description, doesn't appear to feel any guilt about it whatsoever.

It doesn't matter whether he needs to explore his sexuality, or not. He's an inconsiderate partner regardless of his sexuality. DTMFA.

11

@9 "I'd recommend she get a bunch more STI tests done, start using condoms with him, and continue to get tested on a regular schedule regardless of what he says he is or isn't doing."

I don't disagree with your advice on the testing, but the rest of it shows that there is no trust in the relationship. Why should she even stay with this guy if that's the case?

12

He's definitely bi, and not only is he doing this shit behind your back, but he's putting you at risk. You should probably dump him.

13

I don't think she "should" dump her BF. She sounds like a supportive person who has forgiven him for being untruthful, and now there's truth going on. (Not everyone who's lied in the past is a serial liar.)

And I don't think he's gay. I think he likes giving blow jobs anonymously, and he's got a lot of internalized homophobia (most people do). That doesn't equal gay — it equals non-normative straight or maybe sorta bi.

And: getting HIV from giving a blow job was generally considered impossible last time I checked. But there's other diseases out there, and the BF is definitely engaging in medium-to-high-risk behavior, so the GF needs to ask herself "is an STI something I'm willing to risk to be with this guy?" (She's already gotten one once, and seems to have been okay with that.) It's a question that any person in a nonmonogamous relationship has to ask, and then work out clear answers for themselves and with their partner(s). It's not always easy, and it does require honesty about who's using condoms and who's not, etc. But it doesn't have to be a crisis or a dealbreaker.

14

Is it just me or has their been a slew of waaaaaaaaay too accommodating girlfriends hitting Dan up for advice lately?

15

THERE!! Not their. Sheesh.

16

Can he be supported as a "straight guy who sucks some dick"? I know lesbian women that identify as gay but sometimes hook up with guys. LW doesn't seem to have any issue with her partner engaging sexually with anyone else and seems to be willing to support whatever he calls his current practices so... does anything actually need to change?

17

The more I think about it, I don't have any sympathy for anyone who claims a sexual identity while also regularly engaging in sexual acts counterposed to that identity. These people are self important assholes by and large. They either want to have their cake and eat it too, think they are so damned special that they can claim anything they want for themselves regardless of their actions, or are hopelessly closeted. Ok. I have some sympathy for the hopelessly closeted. But mostly, these are entitled jerks who demand to be part of a group regardless of what actually qualifies you to be a member of that group. Just a bunch of Rachel Doleaz's (sp).

18

Bouncing @13, he has already given her one STI. It matters that he lied to her when she asked a question about him having sex outside their relationship and it matters that he wasn’t getting tested regularly or using barriers which is the kind of risky behavior that resulted in him giving and her getting an STI. While it’s good for her sake that the STI was treatable, it matters that he is putting his dick above her literal health and safety. It’s not guaranteed that the next STI he brings home will be treatable...there are strains of gonorrhea that are completely drug-resistant and other viruses besides HIV that aren’t treatable. If that’s not a DTMFA problem, I don’t know what is.

Sportlandia @16, see point about lying to her and behavior that exposes her to risk without her knowledge or consent. His sexual orientation isn’t the problem here, it’s his putting his dick ahead of respect for his partner’s health.

LW, if you’re reading this, dump this jackass and find someone who is considerate of you.

19

Gurl...really? Are you stupid or just desperate? He gave you an STI, and lies about his gay interactions. This homo knows that your homo is doing far more than just giving occasional head at a gloryhole. He’s probably barebacking on the reg and testing the waters on how much he can tell you (probably because he’s been dumped for his predilection for dick by more than one woman). Even the famous denier Roy Cohn had boyfriends and not girlfriends.

Get tested. Use protection. And, if you value trust and monogamy in a relationship, he ain’t it,

20

I see four different issues.

1) The status of their relationship. She doesn't say if they are open or not. The "female partner" from whom he got the STI (and passed on to her) - was he fucking her before they met or while they were together? In any case, it's clear that this boyfriend will seek sexual experiences outside of the relationship, so first things first, they need to clarify what sort of relationship they are in. Possible they've already done this and they are open since she doesn't say anything otherwise and doesn't seem too troubled by the outside sex itself but rather the implications of it to...

2) His sexuality- She seems really worried that he might be struggling with his sexual identity, and that in those struggles he might be dishonest to her (or himself) and I think this sounds pretty accurate given that he's already lied to her about it. Perhaps the guy is just a straight guy who has a cocksucking fetish and would never want to do more with guys, sexually or relationship. Perhaps he's bi and just figuring things out. Perhaps his interest in dicks will grow and he'll want to do more with dicks or the people attached to them. She has no idea, and it's unlikely that he does either. So my advice is to not try to define his identity right now and instead focus on how you feel about being in a relationship with someone with whom any of those things are possibilities. Which requires...

3) Trust- Can you trust him to be honest with you and himself moving forward? I'd say no. He's already lied, and liars tend to keep lying. It's really not your burden to analyze why- I'm sure he has legit confused sexually complicated reasons. It's your burden to figure out how you feel about the fact that you can't really be sure if he's totally honest about everything he does. It sounds like you are willing to give him some amount of personal space to explore but you have the practical concerns of...

4) STIs. Taken altogether, you are with a guy that is engaging in moderately high risk activities, has a history of passing on STIs, has a history of lying about his sexual activities, and is maybe exploring new aspects of his sexuality which he has trouble admitting. So I'd say all of the three points above boil down to you deciding what risks you are willing to take with him, and making yourself informed of the risks you are taking. It's unlikely you will contract HIV from him sucking dick- it's supposedly never happened though I did once read a scary story from a gal that claims it happened to her. But you can't be sure he's only sucking dick since he is not always honest. Therefore, you have to ask yourself first if you are willing to take the risk of being in an open relationship with a guy who will probably not be entirely honest with you about what he's up to on the side. I think the question of his sexuality, in this reframing, is a red herring. There are glory holes for pussies too, the point is the risks associated with anon sex that you don't know he's having.

21

@1 I think here it would be "Why do all these homosexuals keep sticking their dicks in my mouth until they cum?"

@3 not so sure about that. Although there is a bunch of videos of what looks like actual straight drunk guys daring each other to piss in each other's mouths. So, maybe.

22

@20 if i remember, dan has said 2 of his friends got HIV from sucking cock. That could then be passed through PIV. One in a million but could happen. t.

@9 More likely, he gets an asymptomatic oral STI then passes to her pussy from eating her out. So condoms + dental dams or take the modest risk of a treatable STI.

23

The only way HIV could be transmitted during oral sex is if the person whose mouth is involved had an open sore -- they bit their tongue recently, burned their mouth recently, have a canker sore, etc. It's rare, sure, but not impossible.

24

@22 I know one of them.

25

Que es mas homo, sucking gloryhole cock or sticking yours through? I question this fellow's premises (among other things).

26

@21,

My comment was a headline from an old Onion article

27

GLORY seems very willing to stay with Mr. Glory even after his lying, the STI he transmitted to her, and the probable self-denial of his sexuality. Sometimes you have to let people follow their heart and it seems entirely willing to forgive this man, but sometimes, people are just blind to the obviousness of their situation, and that seems more like the case here.

There is a very real likelihood that Mr. Glory is having more frequent sexual experiences with men than he has acknowledged, including anal intercourse. That means, STIs are going to be a very real, and consequential, issue in this relationship if Mr. Glory continues with anonymous, unprotected sexual encounters. These issues make it hard to see how real trust can be reestablished in this relationship, so that GLORY can know the man she is dating and effectively weigh the risks she is facing by staying with Mr. Glory.

Separately, I wonder whether someone like Mr. Glory can really be present in his sexual relationship with GLORY when he likely so conflicted about his sexuality and hiding so much. Among the other issues GLORY should consider, I would add that to the list.

28

Hey, Hunter! We've finally found your closet case!

I agree with Dan that the red flag of the letter is "he doesn't like to see gay men being affectionate." An unfortunate string of fancying men who turn out to be straight isn't evidence of internalised homophobia, but this sure is. Mr Glory either isn't in good enough working order to date, or he's an asshole (as a bisexual, GLORY should be offended on behalf of all LGBT people everywhere. He's a hypocrite for dating her). GLORY doesn't say how old her boyfriend is or how long they've been dating, but I'm with Dan: It's not her responsibility to help him come out. He sounds like a mess to me. DTFMA.

29

John @3, interesting. Like Dan, I didn't rule out Mr Glory's being straight. But he can't suck cock AND be intolerant of gay PDA, and expect to have someone in his life who accepts that bullshit.

Dum @6: Why would "this woman's almost willingness to accept this mans sucking another mans dick" be the thing that deeply disturbs you about this letter? She's bisexual herself. I'd be disturbed if she DIDN'T accept that her partner likes cock. I also don't see any bragging; what about the letter came across as bragging to you?

EricaP @9, yes, she should definitely use condoms with him as well as requiring regular tests, whether he's recently been to a glory hole or not (because Dan's right, he can't be trusted to disclose every visit).

Night @10, yes. The letter isn't clear but strongly implies that the glory hole visits were still taking place after these two got together, and if they defined their relationship as monogamous, that means he was cheating. And if they don't define their relationship as monogamous, he still behaved unethically by having unprotected oral sex and not disclosing this to her.

Philosophy @17, yup. He's behaving bisexually while claiming straight privilege. But given how much flak bi men face, as discussed recently, I'd say his only responsibility (aside from honest, safe sexual practices with his partners) is to stop being a homophobic jerk himself.
FWIW, I would not expect him to use condoms at the glory holes, but I would use condoms with him myself, if I were in GLORY's shoes.

EmmaLiz @20, welcome back!

Delta @21, I dunno, he might be only sucking off other straight guys. ;) With Grindr, do gay men even need glory holes anymore? ;)

Sublime @27, I think GLORY is showing more sympathy than Mr Glory deserves because she herself is bi, probably struggled with her identity at some point along the way, and is projecting her past angst onto her boyfriend. She may have wished she had a partner who showed her the support she now wants to show her guy. It's natural that she sees him as most likely also bi, but closeted due to stigma against bi men, which she wants to show is not universal. I'm not as sure as some others that the glory hole visits aren't the extent of his SS activities. Another question is how long after he denied going to glory holes did he come clean? That would have a large bearing on whether I felt I could trust him going forward. Perhaps GLORY should be on the alert and take a "fool me twice, shame on me" approach, though she has already been fooled twice -- by the glory hole lie and the failure to disclose the prior STI. Is he struggling with shame or a lying liar who lies? Home GLORY doesn't find out the hard way.

30

*Hope, not home.

31

@29/BiDanFan: That is a reasonable guess as to why GLORY is being so understanding, but if that is the case, she needs to be reminded that coming to terms with your sexuality doesn’t give someone a free pass to behave badly, and that she can be caring and supportive even if she needs to end this romantic relationship.

32

Sublime @31, oh absolutely. I acknowledged that her attitude was more sympathetic than he deserved. As with everything involving projection, it by definition risks inaccuracy. She's assuming Mr Glory is struggling with his sexuality, and therefore deserves a pass to try to "figure it out" with these men, which may not be the case. He may remain decidedly a straight guy with a dick fetish, no matter how many dicks he sucks, and granting him this pass for "research purposes" may accomplish nothing beyond bringing her more STIs.

33

In fact, Sublime @31, if you read my original post @28 you'll see that I said exactly that.

34

I sort of lost interest LW, with your twists and turns. Accomodating this man. He’s a Liar, and a transmitter of sex infections. Give him the boot.

35

@24 any details you can share about your friend - open sores? Flossed too hard? Recent dental surgery and didn't wait for the wounds to heal? Might have occasionally had condom-less anal?

I have friends who "never" play unsafe and "only" do oral at sex parties, who I've seen do anal unprotected with especially hot randos.

@29 in case Grindr is too relationship focused for you, there's a hookup app called HOLE!

Two theories about glory holes: 1 - out men don't need them but closeted men do, plus gay men who are cheating on husbands / BFs. 2 - Grindr is a big time sink. Sex clubs / venues are efficient and what you see is what you get, and you almost always can get someone. Or in the case of a glory hole, what you don't see is who you get.

36

@myself - I think people overestimate the risk of STIs at sex clubs, especially if it's JO or oral, and underestimate the risk from "regular" dating.

37

@24 or was your friend oral-only, reasonably careful (no open sores), and just unlucky? According to a quick search the odds of getting struck by lightning are 1 in 576,000 in your lifetime, odds of getting killed by lightning 1 in 3 million, odds of winning Mega Millions 1 in 300 million. So odds of getting HIV from giving oral probably closer to the odds of being struck by lightning (before PrEP / not taking PrEP).

38

STI’s need to be disclosed, and good you could treat yours LW. This man is dishonest and sexually sloppy, why should you care what his orientation is.
He’s treating you badly, get rid of him.

39

The biggest DTMFA is that LW's BF doesn't like to see gay men being affectionate. It is no issue if he doesn't want affection from / to men, but for him to object to other men being affectionate / being couples in public is an asshole thing.

40

Just out of curiosity, how and where does a straight guy find a glory hole? I thought you had to go deep in a gay sex club or bath house. Or are there glory holes everywhere and everyone but me knows about them?

41

If a guy is sucking dick he's either gay or bi. Straight had been taken out of the discussion.

42

1.
Dan, kudos for that response, a masterpiece of wisdom and rhetoric.
2.
Welcome back EmmaLiz, I've missed you!

43

@20 EmmaLiz! I'm glad you're alive.

44

I feel bad for this LW. She cares too much to see she's getting fucked over.

45

Whirled @ 40 - Erotic "bookstores" with cabins, peep shows, public bathrooms where people carve holes in the partitions, etc. They're everywhere.

And also, let's all remember that you can get fucked through a glory hole. So there is absolutely no way she can be sure he isn't having unprotected anal (since he already lied to her, is clearly in denial about something and is generally a hypocrite).

46

@45 I don’t think there are any more erotic bookstores with cabins, or peep shows where I live (Boston). The internet killed them. At least I don’t know of any. And the public restrooms I use don’t have holes in them. Maybe I’m just oblivious.

47

Whirled @ 46 - You're just not looking hard enough! (Just joking)

It's true the Internet killed off a lot of these places, but they do still exist. The bathrooms at intercity bus terminals are usually a good place to start. Some shopping centers, also (not the really nice ones, obviously). At any rate, whether you or I can find them is irrelevent; the only thing that matters here is that Glory's BF seems to have no problem coming across them.

48

Ricardo @47: And neither do the guys he's blowing! Welcome back to you, too.

49

Some years ago I met a person demonstrating much to his bewilderment very similar preferences to those of LW’s bf, though not sure how deceptive he was. It was after a long het marriage and grown up children that he finally came out and formed relationships with men.
It's very possible that hunter may finally get the closet case he so craves.

Like many others here I wonder why LW is so forgiving of bf's lying and risky behavior though BDF reasoning @ 29 does make sense.

50

nightscrawl @11

I'm not advising her to stay with him, but sometimes people in entangled relationships find it hard to leave.

My advice was about how to manage the STI risk if she stays.

Condoms plus both of them getting regularly tested -- that's a good starting point. She might also tell her doctor what's going on and get on PrEP.

51

Delta @ 35 - "out men don't need them but closeted men do, plus gay men who are cheating on husbands"

Definitely wrong. Glory holes offer their own special kind of thrill (they're often in places where you could get caught, so the whole thing has this added feeling of naughtiness), and they have many uncloseted fans who are not in a relationship. That's not to say that they're not a convenient place for closeted or partnered gays, but they're a perfect place for anyone who just wants to receive or give a blowjob with zero strings, and also for those who like to suck on "straight"/closeted dick (and that's a whole lot of people).

BDF @ 48. Exactly. And thanks.

53

I was accidentally introduced to the glory hole phenomenon over 25 years ago, before Savage Love came to enlighten us all, while playing sports on weekday nights. After one game I had to use the bathroom and stepped into the park’s men’s restroom.
None of the three stalls had doors and I was wondering why they’re all occupied by people wearing ordinary street attire, as opposed to the sports uniforms used by us players dominating the park at such a late hour, 10 pm or so.
The guy sitting in the stall next to the urinal gave me a quick glance then went back to flipping through a magazine of some sort. “How odd” I thought while peeing and left right after.

Few weeks later I had another game in that very same park, this time on a weekend afternoon. I was the only one using the restroom, and when I noticed those big holes drilled in the partitions I finally figured out what was going on.

What’s YOUR glory hole story?

54

Ugh. I agree with the comments about too many women bending over backward. GLORY, when you've unkinked yourself, Cirque du Soleil is on Line 2. And, yes, she's being affected by her own bisexuality in being so ~understanding~ of someone who is being a big POS.

Mr. Glory, even if not G or B, is definitely obsessed with dick. As for his aversion to seeing affection in SS porn (something I have seen more of in MM vids), I wonder if he comes from a fundie religious family, where he was taught that deviant male lust may surface in SS activity but that men do not have the capacity to love one another (one of the tragedies of "Boy Erased"). I also wonder if he's deliberately choosing seamier encounters in a self-fulfilling prophecy to equal his self-loathing.

In any event, this guy is bad for her health. We don't know whether she has a medical plan that covers PrEP or more vigilant testing. I can imagine Mr. Glory whining about barrier methods in an attempt to wear her down. The only way she could ever be sure of his status is to accompany him each time! Better to just DTMFA.

55

@53 CMDwannabe
"What’s YOUR glory hole story?"

LOL.

While I was a student, years before Savage Love, I had a student job at a big University library. Nice marble restrooms. I didn't understand the holes in the marble stall walls. Until one day I saw eyes looking through the hole.

56

On the "why is she being so accepting" topic, I'd also like to note that shock information can take some time to process. What about the open-relationship bi guy from last week's column who finally brought up his girlfriend's unfair "no men for you" rule, and his reaction was that he didn't want to break up with her, but to magically cure her biphobia? I think that is going on here too. And it's certainly happened to me, being surprised by new information, and only after reflecting on it realising that no, this isn't okay, this motherfucker needs to be dumped. (In my case, it was discovering a partner of a few months had been lying to me about heroin addiction. My initial reaction was, you should have shared this with me, I wouldn't have judged you, we'll get through this together. Only afterwards did I think it through, remembered he had made fun of -me- for being a pot smoker and a "bad influence," and dumped his lying ass. Hope the recent LWs come to the same conclusion about their MFs.)

57

No glory hole stories CMD. Makes sense in a way, except for the infections moved around. I’ve only got men who exposed themselves stories.
The first time I must have been about thirteen, off to a Sat arvo movie with gfs. Walked past a man in a doorway, and he had his dick out. My first thought was this poor guy hasn’t finished getting dressed, and I was tempted to walk on up to him and tell him. Something held me back.
I mentioned it to my dad when I got home, he seemed a little horrified. I don’t remember what he said.

58

I'm a straight woman, and though I have no glory hole story of my own, I can see the thrill of a glory hole. As cockyballsup said, it's transgressive and it's anonymous. I'd never actually DO anything involving sex in a bathroom or a less-than spotlessly-clean back room in a sex shop or a club, but it's a nice little fantasy.

59

Lotta posts in this thread confirming the "Straight women don't like not-straight men [unless they're fully gay and willing to be used as an accessory like a handbag or small puppy]" theory.

"Not straight? definitely having unprotected anal sex and lying about it!"

60

And lesser risk nothwithstanding...let's please remember that oral HPV can be transmitted to her vaginally. Which puts her at risk for cervical cancer. Please DTMFA

61

"Straight men with a dick fetish" is a thing. The attraction is only to dicks, not to men. Hence the popularity in those circles of non-operated MTF transsexuals (female body with dick) or gloryholes (disembodied dick, no off-putting male body visible).

62

Sporty @59, I also thought I noticed several people alleging that Mr Glory was "definitely having unprotected anal sex and lying about it." However, it was only TheMisanthrope @19 (a gay man) who stated as much. Sublime @27 (a straight man), Ricardo @45 (a gay man) and EmmaLiz @20 (a straight woman) made the valid point that, having lied about the glory holes, it's possible he was not being completely honest about other activities (Sublime said "likely", Ricardo and EmmaLiz merely said she couldn't rule it out). So this hardly confirms your theory.

63

"Never Wrestle with a Pig. You Both Get Dirty and the Pig Likes It."
A popular metaphorical adage https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/07/08/pig/

64

In addition to the thrills mentioned by CBD and others I would also add the vulnerability, handing your penis to a stranger on the other side of a barrier, someone who can do a lot of damage if they so choose (also part of my fondness for testicle cupping.)
Visuals matter too, an erected penis sticking out of a wall can look quite interesting regardless of gender and orientation.

65

@64 A dick sticking out of a wall... What about a wall of dicks? See 7:02 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i1XFNyrlGU

66

R.I.P. Cracked.

67

@47 don't forget the Convention Center Gold's Gym locker room.

68

This woman seems like a great partner. GGG, empathetic, supportive, emotionally level. I hope she finds partners who are more deserving of what she'd bring to a relationship.

69

This guy is engaging in sexually risky behavior and lying to you about it. Is your self-esteem so low that this is the best you think you can get? Do you secretly like the danger? Screw the guy, look at yourself for the real answers.

Oh. And “you’re welcome” to the next poster.

70

What do you know... in the 45 seconds it took to write that, I get to have 69!

71

Congrats Donny.
Not sure what you’re saying Sportlandia @59. It’s already been discussed on another thread how ambivalent some straight women are about bi men. Where do you get the idea that straight women use any men as handbags. Not many anyway. Look to your own kind for that one.
This is about a liar, and yes, a man who seeks thrills before his and the LW’s health.
Don’t like liars, don’t like non disclosure. His bi-ness is not the issue here, it’s his lack of care for the LW while he sorts who he is or isn’t.

72

@71 "my own kind?"

I've probably brought up the "straight women hate bi men" 4 or 5 times over the years. Most recently, people seemed to kinda agree. The first few times, it was considered outrageous and offensive and definitely not true and clearly I was a bigot for saying so. I guess times change

73

Sportlandia @72, I don't think there are any comments on here proving that straight women hate bi men. I think the comments are saying that people shouldn't be lied to or have their health threatened by their partner.

I do think that bi men probably face mistrust equally from gay men and straight women. Society seems to allow women a degree of sexual fluidity that is not extended to men, which is a shame. I adore my bicurious husband and have told him that I think our so-far monogamous relationship is strong enough to accommodate him exploring this, but it's not something he's done. I sure don't hate him.

74

Your own kind Sportlandia, means straight men.

75

RE @61, thank you. That does make sense, and it's interesting that there is no female analogue whatsoever. So straight men who like dick (but not men) are a thing, and it's likely Mr Glory is one of them, mainly because that's what he says he is. So, GLORY, for argument's sake let's say you take your boyfriend at his word. Are you OK with dating a straight man who has a kink for sucking dick at glory holes? Are you willing to accept the risk this brings? Does this entitle you to ask for a reciprocal hall pass to go get some pussy?

Scandal @68, exactly!

Donny @69, congrats on the magic number! All the sweeter because you didn't expect it.

Lava @71: "your own kind"
RACIST! ;)

Sporty @72, "won't date a bi man" and "hate bi men" are a long way from being the same thing.

76

I wasn’t being racist Fan. I was referring to straight men as being Sportlandia’s kind. We do belong to different groups, race being only one of them. And it was obvious from my comment that’s what I meant. Women don’t generally wear men as handbags. The reverse is more to the truth. Better?

77

Lava @76, of course you weren't, that's the point of the winkyface. I was mocking Sporty for calling me a racist when I made a similar comment about "his demographic", meaning straight men, in the past. Both your comment and mine were obviously not about race. Sorry for not letting you in on the joke before I made it!

78

And sorry Curious. To mix barnyard metaphors, I tried, but misogynistic comments are like red capes to a bull. I fell off the new year's wagon, will try harder to scroll and ignore.

79

Also, since I've come this far:
https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2019/10/31/41851169/girlfriends-poor-judgment-throws-wrench-into-open-relationship/comments/4
Sporty, is jumping to an unsupported conclusion that somebody fucked someone and is lying about it evidence that a person hates that entire group, or is it not?

80

@78 BiDanFan
Aw, I wasn't criticizing. (I have no business doing that, I've wrestled as many pigs as anyone.)

I was just predicting a shitshow that hasn't come.

@75 BiDanFan
""won't date a bi man" and "hate bi men" are a long way from being the same thing."

That sort of goalpost-moving is the sort of irrationality that I find endlessly maddening while pig-wrestling. Still, who knows when I'll next be moved to make a pig look foolish as sport.

81

@4. Dougsf. Well said.

@7. Ricardo. Yes--helpful.

/break/
He wants to suck off guys through glory holes and call himself straight? Fine. Orientation is about politics--sort-of. It's about ethos and self-presentation and what you're prepared to carry the can for. But he doesn't like gay men's public displays of affection? No. This is self-hating homophobia.

The lw should observe a hiatus in her sex life, get tested, then aim to prevail on her bf to be straight (!) with her on whom he's doing and when. This for self-protection's sake.

A happy new year to GLORY and all other Savagistas too!

82

@16. Sportlandia. If their relationship is to continue, I would think it needs to be placed on a new basis of respect, as well as of honesty. You can pass on syphilis through unprotected oral. She needs to say that to him, looking him in the eyes. Is he contrite? Why didn't he tell her what he was doing before? Was he afraid she'd dump him (despite her being bi herself)? Was he so ashamed?

@20. Emma. Clear and comprehensive. Welcome back!

83

@37. delta. Granted, the risk of HIV is tiny. But this may be unduly a gay man's perspective. What about the risk of chlamydia--which can cause infertility? She wants to be very clear what he's doing, and how safely.

@61. Registered European. It /is/ a thing. When I was getting some gender confirmation surgery done (and I've had less than many transwomen), one class of people whom I attracted more were the straight cocksuckers (even though, really, I had the wrong kind of physique for them--too big and fleshy). But, in most cases, they were just the kind of person I didn't want casual sex with; and I can honestly say, of all the sexual types with whom I might be complementary, my contact with them--the pure cocksuckers--has been the most passing.

84

Thanks Fan, I did get thrown. Then I had to check if I am racist.

85

Mizz Liz in #20 and Ms Fan in #29 seem to have the case reasonably well covered.

I'd really just as soon drop the "internalized" here; in this case, I doubt the distinction matters much. It almost parallels one of Eileen Brennan's better moments in Clue, when Mrs Peacock is asked (I think by Professor Plum), "What are you afraid of, a fate worse than death?" and responds, "No, just death; isn't that enough?"

86

@74 I'm unfamiliar with the trope of straight guys palling around with gay men.

@79 Your ability to selectively read between the lines is impressive. My conclusion in your link was clearly, and blatantly, speculative. But you're so dumb you don't literally can't determine which of two numbers is bigger than the other, so asking you to parse the english language is expecting much too much from you. Your standards for disagreeing with things I've written involve making several logical leaps and inferences, yet somehow you can also say "refusing to date bi men is a long way from hating them" while not applying that same logic to... anything else is a great illustration of the depths of your hypocrisy. That you focus on me so intently and consistently seem to indicate that you you recognize some type of truth in what I say and find it a threat to your ability to set the tone around here. You promise over and over to stop replying - Please God make it so - yet never seem to follow through. Why is that?

87

Harriet @83, have you said before you are a trans woman, and I missed it.
Sportlandia, you are going to make your self sick with alll this negativity. This is not a therapy group, please stop using it as such.
All this rage is for whom, really? Your absent father? All white people? Women?

88

@82 respect seems to be core to all quality relationships, agreed. It doesn't seem as if this LW is looking for contrition or an apology, and she seems to accept that this is part of him moving forward and intuitively understands why he didn't divulge earlier - maybe those are issues but they're noticeably absent from the letter.

@73 Yesyes, women are just fine dating bi guys, they just don't want to date guys who have sex with other guys because they're likely to get an STD. Important distinction.

89

@87 literally all you have to do is not talk shit, it's that easy. I'm sorry you're from a place where you feel people should smile through it.

90

@87. Lava. I call myself GQ, rather than trans. I was assigned (born) male, and from my early sexual maturity (17 or so), presented as an effeminate homosexual. All that time, I felt my femme-ness was more than a manner, but only started going about en femme (always in queer spaces, sometimes otherwise) in my mid-to-late 20s. My sexual partners were always men; and I was exclusively homoromantic as a man. My serious life-partners have been men, though I'm also attracted (in a less scattershot and conventional way) to ciswomen.

My body has always been ambiguous wrt gender, and still is (after some work). Before it was absurdly, mockingly so in some people's eyes. Now I am more able to pass as both a woman and man according to choice and context. This is the boon of being in your 50s. Surgery has helped in this; but actually gym (and LOTS of gym) has helped more.

91

@88. Sportlandia. I'd be with the people who think she's being 'too understanding'. What is their 'going forward' going to be? His telling her when he sucks a guy off, and their using condoms and dental dams until testing has given him the all-clear? That's a lot of testing. And ... have they even had that explicit a conversation? Does she know whether or not he wants to carry on blowing the guys 'in secret', as it were, without her knowing in advance, as something hot because it's on the down-low?

She feels as if her duty to encourage him to explore this side of his nature. But what Dan says is right. He's kind-of preempted her. He's doing it anyway. Without denying your point that couples sometimes have an implicit understanding about past behavior (misdemeanors or infractions), I think her priority more has to be with her own sexual health (and his capacity for honesty).

92

You talk rubbish Sportlandia, nobody says you have to smile thru anything. This is a discussion, people responding to questions sent into Dan. Whenever you show up a fight erupts. You lose the plot and start raving about whatever. Nothing to do with the question, all about you and your angry mind. Do some therapy ffs.

93

Thanks Harriet for sharing some of your story. And correcting my mistake.

94

Oink oink.

95

For those of you who've never been to a bookstore or truck stop or wherever one finds glory holes... they're really the most base and potentially disease ridden corners of the M4M universe. And I say this as a gay man who has been to more than a few pre-Internet. With the dawn of technology all of the halfway decent guys are meeting up online. The guys who still go to glory holes are either rampant sex addicts or in a really weird corner of the closet. If I found out my bf was going to them, we'd be done. Especially if he goes regularly and sort of denies it. Even worse if he's doing the sucking. Yeah, run.

96

@ 95 - "With the dawn of technology all of the halfway decent guys are meeting up online"

I haven't found many decent people online. Most of them are flakes. YMMV, but to put out such a blanket statement is rather unwise and mostly speaks of your prejudice ("rampant sex addicts" hahaha) and probable germ-phobia.

"If I found out my bf was going to them, we'd be done."

If I found out my bf had such a sex-negative attitude, we'd be done.

97

Curious @94: ROFL! Thanks for the laughs this week!

99

Sex negative, Ricardo? Not wanting your bf sticking his cock thru some dirty hole in some dirty toilet wall for some stranger to suck. It’s not a moral yuk, because whatever, it’s a hygienic yuk. A big Yuk. Why a toilet: because it says to me, shame. Fine taking risks with sti/ds, everyone’s choice: to do it in toilets. Gross.

100

What if he’s a homophobe, and proceeds to cut or bite into a man’s precious appendage. Worse, shoot the man. So much risk and in a filthy toilet.
Better to have places which are clean, and have velvet curtains. Maybe a tiled/ lino floor, with drains everywhere, easy washing. I see the erotic nature of it, I’ve had fantasies of similar for us women lovers of oral. Never in toilets though.

101

Fan, you could back off baiting him.
Sportlandia, we don’t have skin colour here, not a signal we send each other. Attitudes etc is what gets responded to. Don’t let Fan push your buttons, easy.

102

Lava @ 99/100 - Don't take TB's word as to the state of those places. His disgust is not justified by reality. If it's hygienic enough for you to sit down and have a crap, it's hygienic enough for a BJ.

As for the homophobe thing, I've cruised enough public toilets, parks and other such places in my days, I can guarantee you that this doesn't happen in any statistically relevant fashion. By definition, these guys wouldn't put a dick in their mouth even if it was to hurt a fag.