In addition to all of Dan's points, all the LW did was prolong the breakup, for who knows how long. If my partner no longer wants to be my partner for whatever reason, I want to know so we can go our separate ways, not spend /weeks or months/ wondering why my relationship is falling apart around me. Who wants to waste all that emotional energy on an asshole?

Well, no surprise but I am not on side ASSHOLE. With honesty there is the chance for a amicable breakup. For all this turd knows his GF wanted to move on but is just a better actor than he is. But he can't possibly imagine that because he's wallowing in how great his farts smell. With the passive-aggressive drive away there will never be any amicable scene. And like all passive-aggressive bullshit it is not about protecting others feelings, it is about manipulating them to save yourself a tiny bit of trouble.

ASSHOLE is not just stirring hatred, he is causing his girl/boy/enbyfriend PAIN and distress with this scheme he thinks is clever and somehow merciful. It is neither. Be a freaking grown ass adult and break up honestly. Also don't assume your "friend" is so totally besotted with you that the breakup will cause them to suffer a great deal. I personally think treating them like crap over a period of months will cause far more suffering.

How pathetic, LW.

Honesty is the best policy.

So she might have been haunted and miss "the one that got away" -- but that's better than her being haunted by "why did I waste so much time with him, where did my judgment go wrong".

Sounds like post-hoc rationalization. Badgering someone to break up with is generally bad. It's not THE WORST, but it's not the best either.

I don't see any problem with remaining friends after a break-up, I'm still friendly with many exes. Sometimes there are "what could have been" pangs but... those exist with people I'm not friendly with anymore either.

She is not ONLY angry, there is definitely sadness there as well. What you did was a waste of her time and probably instilled some lingering self-doubt of why she let someone treat her that way.

Oh, I'm gonna toss this one to the commenters but first I'm gonna burn the question to the ground and piss in the ashes, eh.

If you’ve spent a longer time with someone it’s nice to be able to look back on those years and think they were well spent with a quality human. When you part ways and you can remember those times with fondness even if there’s sadness too. It’s really the most hideous thing ever to look back on a good chunk of your life with a sense of wanting to vomit because of the years you gave to someone who treated you like shit. Or so I’ve heard.

I.
At very least the LW admitted it was a cowardly thing to do. And yes, it absolutely was cowardly. Grow a pair, eh? What were you really afraid of?
Take proactive responsibility for your self & your relationships, instead of pissing around and FORCING your partner to commit the action and outcome YOU really wanted.

Your method is non-consensual and manipulative. Consent relies on all parties having Full-Knowledge, and you chose to withhold your truth from her in order to avoid the responsibility of ending it. She may well have initiated the breakup anyway if you had been Honest and said you didn't love her, but you'll never know now, since you wove a web of lies & confusion.

"She can feel anger..." Wow. This is an amazingly shitty statement. Who wants more anger in their life? Did you ask her if that's what she wanted? No? Then fuck your "gift". Did you ask her if she wanted to be fed a bunch of lies "for weeks"?

"...instead of sadness." Her feelings are ultimately not your responsibility. She gets to feel what she wants, and process the world in her own way. You "choosing" to instigate certain feelings in another person removes their autonomy. Again, very manipulative. And notably condescending: Why do you think you should have the power to select someone else's feelings for them? Where and when does your manipulative behavior actually stop?
[...]

II.
Being honest and --and if not bluntly direct, then respectfully indirect--, saying you need to talk, setting a time, and then stating you're not in love with them and want to end things... that puts your cards on the table and gives your partner the full-awareness of the situation. It gives them the power and agency to make clear choices. You allow them to make their own decisions, and feel their own feelings. Relationships require mutual consent to continue, either party can revoke their consent at any time & exit --- But revoking your consent AND LYING ABOUT IT, "FOR WEEKS", is simply maddening. And bullshit. You intentionally disempowered her, violated her boundaries, coerced her, and created an unsafe situation using unhealthy communication & ulterior motives. There's no good there.

You have to be able to hurt someone's feelings when you have a truth that needs to be said. Not ^want^ to hurt someone (that's psychopathic), not ^enjoy^ it, nor even look forward to it. But be capable of it when it is necessary. Be capable of telling someone bad news they don't want to hear. It's part of being a responsible human in this life.

(CAVEAT: that if a partner will react violently, then you have a responsibility to do what you need to protect yourself.)

You have to develop the integrity to face someone else's expressions of sadness (or anger, or etc) when you know what you have to say will conflict with their current understanding or desires.
[...]

III.
Again, you're not responsible for what she chooses to feel -- her feelings are generated from within her, as yours come from within you as a response to your perceptions of the situations you face. Different people have different responses to the same situations. Not always predictable. But even if you can anticipate 'Sadness' or 'Anger' or whathaveyou as 99% likely if you deliver Bad News, so what? It will be THEIR feelings for them to process.

Whereas what you did was ^manufacture^ a situation to arouse feelings YOU wanted them to feel. So they are effectively processing YOUR false feelings. Thanks for introducing more confusion & mistrust into the world.

What you did you did for YOURSELF, not out of consideration for her. That's the lie you're telling yourself to avoid facing responsibility for the ultra-shitty, UNNECESSARY pain you put her through. I'm going to guess that you didn't want to have any sort of friendship with her post-breakup, so you scorched the earth to ensure no lingering contact. Not to mention that you simply didn't want to take responsibility for your own wants and desires in the situation. So you're also confusing yourself.

And lying to yourself.
The more you lie, the more you won't be able to tell the difference between your truth and your own lies.

Is that what you really want?

My ex (husband) chose your route, LW. Dan got it right on. It is emotional abuse. It leaves lingering damage your partner has to repair while you scamper off thinking you've been noble? That you did her a favor? All because you don't want to have an uncomfortable conversation?

That shows the reasoning ability and emotional maturity of a 2-year-old. Shit, I bet you'd dump your dog in the woods when you got tired of him and tell yourself that you did him a favor be sure he gets to live free!

Douchebag.

because he gets to live free

I shouldn't type angry.

There are enough assholes in the world. Why be one? Why add to the assholery? Why not just honor the Golden Rule, no matter your religion or lack thereof? Why not just treat people with decency and respect? Assuming that you're not in danger, you're not being abused, etc., why not just be sincere? Even if a breakup is rough, why not just say "it's over, goodbye"? Why make it worse? Why string someone along, then make him or her feel worse?

I'll take a slightly different tack, even though I think that mostly I agree with people.

There is something to be said for ending something completely. You don't need to be an asshole, you don't need to do the crazy immature shit this guy did, but sometimes being firm and a wee bit callous can be a good thing. He's not wrong that breaking up with someone and being super nice and communicative can sometimes not be very helpful and can send mixed signals. It might be nice to break up with someone and say "I don't see us as friends" so that they can move the fuck on.

But again, that's not what he's talking about. He's trying to actively be a dick so he can avoid an awkward conversation. What a bag of dicks.

all of that, yes.

That said. I don't see this as merely cowardly, self-serving, passive-aggressive delusion, I think it's cowardly sadism. Ghosting would be a huge improvement on this crap. LW, delete all your accounts and go inflict yourself on a monastery somewhere.

My ex did this to me, and Dan is exactly right - the most damaging thing he did to me was reassuring me, when I tried to talk to him about the distance I felt growing between us, that he still loved me and that maybe it was my problem that there was distance between us. To this day I don't know when he stopped loving me, or if he ever really loved me at all. Oh, and to add insult to injury, he was still getting everything he wanted from me, and not even giving me basic honesty in return. I'm still angry with him, ASSHOLE, and trust me, I am not in the least bit grateful to him. Cowardice is never a noble or attractive quality. Consider some therapy so you never feel it is appropriate to treat another human being that way again.

Great answer Dan, but I’ll say it again, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE use a copy editor! Or re-read before posting. Or something. The amount of typos in your answers is embarrassing and obnoxious, and distracts from the content.

“She gets to be angry instead of sad?” No dude, she’s both. And yeah that’s worse than just sad.

Embarrassing and obnoxious @19, to whom? To you maybe, not to everyone. I think Dan does it on purpose so you lot sit there tearing your hair/ s out.

I was guilty of at least some of this type of assholery in my early 20s, but only because I was a COWARD, not because I deliberately set out to torture the women who had the misfortune of being seduced by a guy who just wasn't emotionally mature enough to be in a relationship at that point in his life. But I certainly never tried to justify my assholery as being somehow "better" for them. I hope they've forgiven me (well, look, I wasn't that bad, I was never willfully abusive like ASSHOLE, just young and stupid) and I hope they have been able to live their lives free from bitterness and anger.

Dan nailed it in his last paragraph. ASSHOLE, you've made this all about you. The ex isn't just going to be angry with you and see you as an asshole. They're going to have trouble trusting every future person they date, because look what happened when they trusted you. ASSHOLE, you've just created a big hurdle for every future guy your ex will date. She's not just mad at you, she's mad at men. And she doesn't just think you're an asshole, she's wondering what she did wrong to turn you into an asshole. Nothing positive can be said about dumping-through-cowardly-manipulation. ASSHOLE, you're also seeing only two post-breakup options: they hate you or they pine after you. What about, they nurse a broken heart for a few months, then they get over it and you can get back onto friendly terms? You're never going to get there with someone you've treated like shit. Years later, they'll be talking about that asshole, instead of hanging out with you and your new partner in a big group, or consoling you after a breakup, or helping with your taxes or DIY. Next time, person up and give your future exes the humanity they deserve.

@20 Anger, sadness, shame from letting someone treat her like that, and intense anxiety from doubting her own reality.

It’s interesting that LW values anger over sadness. There’s a book called “Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men” by Lundy Bancroft that explores patterns of abuse. It’s one of the better resources out there because it centers the problem of abuse entirely with the abuser.

Being a dick rarely works out well as a life strategy.

Treacle, you nailed it too. ASSHOLE, the way your girlfriend reacts to the breakup is up to her. You can't engineer her feelings. You could dump her in the kindest way possible and she might still feel angry with you. Or she might feel relieved because she was also growing unhappy with the situation. Just because you felt a certain way after being dumped kindly doesn't mean she will feel the same way. At any rate those feelings are her business and the longer you drag it out, the more unpleasant feelings you're putting on her to process.

Music @15, I think that's the problem -- this is a misapplication of the golden rule. He thinks he wouldn't want to be dumped kindly, because that left him with a broken heart. I wonder if he's ever been dumped in this way.

Larry @16, yeah. Again, there are more than two options, ASSHOLE's cowardly gaslighting versus a kind "it's not you, it's me." There's the "actually it's you" option, where one actually tells the person the reasons they're driving one mental. Bottom line is that there is no way to break up with someone without hurting their feelings. The person will be hurt, but there's no need to also make them crazy. Agree with others that what you are doing is abuse. There is never any justification for it.

Bax @20, nailed it with the fewest words possible.

I hate being lied to; that's why I'm not religious.

And one further thought - your method probably won't even achieve its stated goal - I still miss my ex, because even if he was just pretending to care about me, I still believed he did, and I cared about him, and I miss those feelings. It's just instead of feeling a bit sad that he's no longer with me, I feel stupid and bad about myself for missing someone who clearly isn't worth it. Look, you're probably not as fucked-up as my ex, so maybe there's still hope for you. If it hasn't been too long since your breakup, send your ex a message owning up to what you did, apologise for being such a dick and assure her that the problem in your relationship was you. I'm not usually a fan of the idea, and I know I'm never going to get any, but I reckon your ex might appreciate some closure.

Pan @28, good idea. Perhaps ASSHOLE can send her a link to this column. I would feel elated if one of my exes admitted that they were the asshole, that it wasn't all in my head.

I'm glad I formed my own answer before reading Dan's because if I'd read Dan's first, I'd think I was influenced by him, and I wasn't. As it is, we agree completely.

First off, who gets to decide that anger is better than sadness? Perhaps an angry person?

Direct answer to Dan's question. I prefer being dumped honestly and with compassion. Even before I got to Dan's saying it, I was forming in my mind, at least that way you can trust the next guy, not form the opinion that the entire race of men are assholes. For the LW: I am a middle aged straight woman who has been dumped both ways.

I wish the asshole had given us more detail on the ways he was a jerk. There are so many to choose from. How is acting like a jerk when you don't mean it easy? (Maybe only if you're a jerk to start.)

(Now reading the other comments.) Another endorsement of Baxbooch@20. Yup, it's now both angry AND Sad.

Lava@21-- Count me as one who agrees with wj2298. Typos and errors distract.

I wish Dirtbag's@25 statement about being a dick not working as a life strategy, but I've seen too much evidence to the contrary.

And there I go putting in an error in a comment where I condemn errors.

I wish Dirtbag's@25 statement about being a dick not working as a life strategy were true, but I've seen too much evidence to the contrary.

What a vile piece of shit.

I can see how someone unevolved might think the way the letter writer does.

But the emotions you feel are in a sense who you are while you feel them. Hate is not a pleasant emotion to fill your vessel with, and it does not later transform into something pleasant.

OTOH, let's take love for someone passing out of your life. Yes at first this is perhaps more difficult, but in time the loss is healed. And then you are left with love (which is healthier than hate).

I (we probably all) knew someone who watched political cablenews incessantly, not because they cared about policy, but because they felt they enjoyed hating the 'other' political party. They revelled in that space of hate all the time. They thought they loved being a vessel filled with hate all the time. And it was probably the best they could do, because they were completely closed to any possibility of personal growth to get to a place where they could do better than that, where their vessel could be filled with something better than hate. That was sad, as it left them full of negativity. Which is not as pleasant and healthy for them as had they gotten to a place of positivity.

This person I knew also thought that it was right to give other people what they wanted for themselves. But just because someone (for example the letter writer) isn't evolved enough to transcend hate, doesn't mean that hate was an appropriate 'gift' to give to his girlfriend to experience.

But wait, you say "what if she too was a primitive hate-vessel"? Then don't worry, she'll fill /herself/ with hate. (In other words it's still not right to present hating you to her as a gift.)

We do not carry torches for people who say honestly—they have to be honest and say the actual words—things like “my feelings for you have changed, and nothing we can do will change that. I care for you greatly but I’m no longer in love.” We pretty much hate these people, even if we are forced to recognize that they actually behaved well and honestly given the situation. So the mission ASSHOLE claims to be serving—providing a clean break—is accomplished in a way shorter timeframe, without a cascade of lies.

You know how obvious it felt that those relationships that ended in hatred were with people who were not fit to be in relationships at all? So it was easy to keep them out of your life if you wanted healthy relationships?

You became that sort of person. Incapable of a healthy relationship.

It's not about how good you feel as a person, it's about how considerate you are in caring for yourself, loved ones. It's about your actions, your habits. How good you are at PREVENTING unnecessary pain.

I'm sorry.

"I didn't want to be a "great guy" that did the right thing when the relationship needed to end."

I don't understand why some people can give up on being "good people" or even "great people". Why? Can't they take care of themselves while behaving ethically? Who you want to be will also determine the sort of people in your life. It sounds like he dumped a great woman because he wanted something lesser...

Alain de botton posits that we are attracted to the sort of person who will cause us to suffer and frustrate us in a familiar way, the way we learned to love as children. In that way it makes sense to say "I'm sorry, the spark is not there, you don't make me suffer in the way I learned to grow, it's not you, it's me."

I think therapy can improve childhood /relationship trauma issues to some extent.

Question tho: we've all done this. Maybe not the intentional asshole bit, but withdrawn from relationships days/weeks/months before announcing we wanted to end them. I know every breakup I've been on the wrong end of, to some extent I've seen coming because suddenly my partner wasn't as enthusiastic as before, or fights over trivial stuff occur.

Does it matter if someone was intentionally vs accidentally an asshole to you, or does only the anguish experienced actually matter? The more I think on this, the more it feels like LW represents the normal way most people break up, and clean breaks are the rarity...

@31: Perhaps my frame of reference longer?

Sportlandia@37-- Does it matter if assholery is intentional or accidental? I think it does. Both hurt, but there are differences as to trust in the long run.

Let's say the withdrawal is accidental as when the one withdrawing is making up his mind. (Pronouns can be switched. I'm choosing the man to be doing the breaking up and the woman as the broken-up-with because that's the way it is in the original letter.) Big possibility here is that he goes through a rough patch, is a bit of an asshole for a few weeks and months, then gets over his stress, gets his act together, and they both go on to good committed relationship together where they both know they're not perfect, see the good and bad sides of each other, and last together through the years for mutual benefit.

Let's say the withdrawal is accidental and ends in a breakup. She's hurt; in hindsight she could have seen it coming, but she's still able to see her ex as a flawed human, not as an evil one. She carries this knowledge to her next and hopefully better relationship.

But if it's intentional? That's pain on a different level. Even in a crowded space if someone accidentally steps on my foot, it hurts, but not like it hurts if I know someone was stomping on me on purpose. I've pondered this for a long time. I know it doesn't make sense if the amount of pressure on my foot is the same, but intent does matter.

Also consider who's in control. To a certain extent, she can choose how she reacts to being dumped. When he engages in intentional assholery, he's delivering a final act of manipulation, a statement that he's the boss of her, that he's seeking to control her emotions down to the fine points.

Sarah @34: "We" do? I've never hated anyone who has broken up with me compassionately. I have felt heartbroken and missed them, and mourned their absence, but not hated them. But thanks for confirming that LW can't choose how a future ex will react to a compassionate dumping. She might still hate you, dude, if you don't do anything wrong!

Fichu @38, I agree it absolutely matters whether someone is being an asshole intentionally or because they don't know better. Of course it is not easy to break up with someone. Of course you don't want to have to do the difficult thing, none of us does. LW's way is the immature way, so of course we've probably all done it LW's way at least once, because we were immature during our earliest relationships. Ideally we learn that that's the wrong way to do it, and our better selves tell us that we need to person up and make that clean break the next time we realise for certain that we don't want to be in this relationship anymore. Typical doesn't mean normal or good.

I agree with the vast majority of commenters that this is a cruel way to leave a relationship. But to the LW, if you're reading? I'd point out that it's also a seriously labor-intensive workaround for that boundary discomfort you mentioned in passing. You say when partners have broken up with you nicely, you had trouble accepting the finality of the ending for a long time afterward. If that means you are willing to go to extreme lengths to avoid dealing with an ex who feels like you did --or do-- about THOSE exes, then dude, you've got some therapy work to do. If empathy for those you're hurting doesn't motivate you enough, maybe the prospect of more comfort in your own life might

And Sarah @34, I really don't think hate is an enduring response to someone who attempts to be kind while breaking up, for most people. At least not the ones I know.

So, LW, you've come in for a lot of criticism from the commenters who are seeing things from your ex's point of view. Let me try a different angle.

Here's the broader question you're asking: why should I behave in a virtuous manner? Especially if the outcome of my unvirtuous behavior is a good one for everyone concerned.

The problem with your argument is that human beings don't make choices in isolation. Every time you choose one course of action over another, you are creating and reinforcing behaviors that become habits. If you act like a jerk to your SO today, you're more likely to tomorrow. Your letter says you acted that way over a period of weeks. You've literally been training your brain that that is the appropriate way to act towards your SO. That means there's a high likelihood that that behavior will carry over into your next relationship too.

You called yourself a coward for not being willing to confront the end of your relationship head-on and honestly. I'd say that's a fair description. Acting with either courage or cowardice is another kind of habit. If you give in to your fears here, you're more likely to not stick up for yourself in other ways as well, which can manifest in all kinds of negative ways. Maybe your desire to avoid conflict keeps you from asking your boss for a raise. Maybe you become overly risk-averse.

One of the reasons I'm really grateful to be gay is that the coming out process taught me a lot about how to act with courage and integrity when it comes to my personal relationships. I had to risk friendships and family relationships to be truthful and honest about who I was. That's translated into similar honesty and integrity when it's come to other things. It's certainly made me a great deal more secure and comfortable with being who I am.

I would suggest that you develop a habit of that kind of integrity in your relationships as well going forward. I think you'll find that you have a great deal more respect, not only form others, but from yourself as well.

I’m the letter writer, I don’t know the etiquette to post if it’s you.

So, a little more information: it was not a plan, it was not on purpose. I just noticed myself becoming more distant, more argumentative and more of a piece of shit. I wrote because I am aware that she is a great person, and for a long time we were madly in love with each other. Then it stopped for me, I wanted that relationship back and I was angry that she had settled into being practical, just wanting a partner that helped with the day-to-day of her life and not interested in love, spontaneity, being physical or anything other than planning our careers.

My temper started to get worse, and I didn’t even notice it. For example, it used to be when she wanted to go shopping, (she doesn’t drive) I would be psyched to spend time with her and happy to spend a few hours picking her up, shopping and dropping her off.

Then, in the last few weeks. I really didn’t want to spend that time and made excuses. I didn’t want to change the lightbulbs in her house. I didn’t want to be on the phone with her insurance and school and do her finances. I didn’t want to cook a 4 course meal for her like I used to. I wasn’t the provider of “acts of service” like I was when we started dating. And it made her furious that I wouldn’t help with her life like I used to.

When she was fed up and dumped me, I realized I caused it, and felt terrible because that’s not how I treat my friends or loved ones. But I was happy that she hated me, and I just wanted to ask Dan’s advice on whether I should feel happy about that or not.

Believe me. It was accidental sabotage. I only realized how much of an ASSHOLE I was after it ended. After reading these comments, I know I was right to ask for advice, because I was an asshole. Point taken. Thank you all for weighing in.

Hi Whatif -
It's never too late to apologize to her. Not to get back together - obviously! But acknowledging how wrongly & hurtfully you behaved might ease some of her pain.

I think it might make you feel better, too.

Just reread that. It was not completely accidental. I know I’m a dick because when she started to get mad, I liked it. I didn’t know I wanted to break up, I thought I still loved her, but I liked the freedom of standing up for myself, concentrating on my life, and didn’t care if it hurt her. I should have ended it then and there, but I was a coward.

@45 Whatif
Thank you very much for popping in (it's not that common and means a lot)..

And good for you for owning up. It could be the first step in you growing from this. (And growth is after all what it's all about.)

A great second step would be, as Aurora Eratic said #44, to apologize. Apologies are worth a lot, and cost you nothing.

@WhatIf

I never comment on here but I related to your story. I'm having that situation where my "in love" feelings for my SO and the desire to do acts of service for her have waned. She's been my first actual girlfriend and we've dated for most of our 20s. I still love her and hope for the best life for her...but she deserves someone 110% into her and committed. I've supported her through a lot and I'm honestly tired and burned-out. I have a history of cowardly actions in past online relationships (i.e. ghosting, emotional unavailability due to depression) so I want to make sure I do right by her when our relationship probably comes to an end.

So thank you WhatIf for reminding me to be conscientious about my behavior with your deeply personal story. At some point 'acts of service' love language people (and especially anxious people-pleasers like me) can get caught in the situation of "now how did I end up feeling more like the butler than the boyfriend...I was just trying to be nice and helpful..." and that just breeds resentment.

But on a positive and personal note to you, brave LW who waded into the comments, I also want to tell you that you are NOT cast as a MONSTER or a COWARD for your whole life based on this. We can all learn and improve and better ourselves, it is our great gift and privilege as humans. So good luck, I think we'll both need it!

I have had “good” break ups and bad. The “bad” hurts the most and lasts the longest not only because of the intense feelings of anger created by shitty behavior on the part of the break-er but most of all, as Dan and others have said because it makes you doubt your own judgement. “I’m so sorry, this just isn’t working for me and never will. I don’t hate you, but I think we’re looking for different things in a partner. If we can stay friends after the hurt lessens I’d like that, because obviously there are things I like/love about you and would like to keep in my life, but if you don’t think you are ready for a different, friend-based relationship, I can understand that.”

That’s the way adults part company.

Your way is the way sociopaths say “good riddance to bad rubbish” and you have earned a heaping shitpile of bad karma in your life. I (and all your exes, I’m sure) hope it comes back to you and all bad break-uppers in spades.

Whatif @43, thanks for writing in.

One point I'm not sure has been mentioned is, what if your strategy backfires? You decide to manipulate your partner into breaking up with you by becoming intolerable. But what if they don't? What if they're psychologically scarred enough to put up with your abuse not for weeks, but months or years?

That said, I'd like to give you kudos for writing in because it shows you want to learn and to become a better person. That shows a lot more maturity than some people ever have. And thank you for being willing to listen. I believe that you didn't engage in this behaviour on purpose. In future, I guess your answer is that when you start to notice you're doing these things, that's when it's time to take stock. You're hurting someone and you don't care, or like it, because you know it's getting you closer to being single? At the first sign that this is what you're doing, have that talk and pull the plug. (Or if there is something that you think might be fixable, try to fix it. But don't second guess yourself -- if you know, you know.) Sure, it may take some unintentional asshole behaviour before you realise, but you now know yourself better than you did and can be on the lookout for it.

Something else you might learn is to perhaps not provide so many "acts of service" early in a relationship? You've learned now that these chores may be a joy when you're in NRE (new relationship energy), but when that wears off -- as it inevitably will -- you'll realise they're chores and that you feel used. Be conscious of what you're giving and what you're getting, even when you don't mind giving.

I hope you see now that being hated isn't a good thing. If you truly feel sorry, please tell her. That won't make her fall in love with you all over again, which seems to be the thing you've hoped to avoid. It will just make her feel better about herself, and you, and humanity in general. And perhaps someday you can be on speaking terms, which is always better than not. Good luck, Whatif.

...and, sorry, I don’t buy that you “... just noticed (your)self becoming more distant, more argumentative and more of a piece of shit... and your “... temper started to get worse, and (you) didn’t even notice it...”

That is self-serving BS. This isn’t something that just “happened” to you. This is something you DID, and CHOSE not to stop because, “Oh, it will be BETTER for her to hate me...”

And, when she finally got rid of your sorry ass you, “realized I caused it, and felt terrible because that’s not how I treat my friends or loved ones...”

Yes it is.

DonnyKlicious:

I don’t often respond to trolls, but yours was special. I’m not a sociopath, if I was I wouldn’t email Dan in the first place. I’m going through a breakup, and feel bad about my actions the past few weeks. I was only wondering how I should feel for being a jerk for 3 weeks and asking for advice from my favorite advice columnist.

And the answer is overwhelming: I should feel terrible and I was a dick.

So don’t worry, I get it. I am a piece of shit. I have Dan and 40+ comments to prove it.

I welcome any other advice you have for me. Just because it’s funny and you can’t hurt me. The people that respond kindly and critically, that hurts when I hear the truth. I know I did wrong when I hear that.

You, you’re water off a ducks back. Don’t care.

My question to ASSHOLE is when did you develop psychic powers? Because you seem to know exactly what your girlfriend was thinking and feeling at the time.

Anger does not cancel out sadness. You can feel both.

Being an asshole might make the intial breakup easier but Dan brought up a good point about how it will leave lasting damage in the long run because the person won't understand why someone who loved them started treating them like garbage. And how they trust this new person in their life when their ex said the same thing.

Look you don't have to be friends after a break up but being a jerk to avoid an awkward conversation is a really bad decision.

BiDanFan @49.

Thank you. I will think about your response and hopefully be a better partner in the future.

I need to reassess my life and dating. I was hung up on my ex-wife for a long time, until I found out that she was cheating on me with a coworker for the last six months of our marriage. That made it so much easier to let her go, I stopped loving her because I was angry and I knew the coworker, he always tried to be friends with me while he was sleeping with my wife.

It was so much better to be angry than staying in love with her and wanting her back every day. I can date again now, it’s freedom.

I would absolutely prefer the honest dump by someone who said all the right things. The LW's partner is a woman, and like it or not society still gives us an element of man-gains/wins-woman-gives away/loses for male-female sex. That means that not only does this woman have to deal with being dumped, she also has to feel like she was stupid for ever being with such a meanie in the first place. "What is it about me that inspired him to be such an asshole?" "What is wrong with my eyes that I couldn't see what an asshole he was and not date him in the first place?" "What is wrong with me this?" "What is wrong with me that?" When what is really going on is that LW is a mannerless coward.

WhatIf, thanks for responding and clarifying! I wanted to follow up on what you said:

"Then it stopped for me, I wanted that relationship back and I was angry that she had settled into being practical, just wanting a partner that helped with the day-to-day of her life and not interested in love, spontaneity, being physical or anything other than planning our careers.

My temper started to get worse, and I didn’t even notice it."

I don't mean to be overly obvious, but you DO realize that's the anger that drove the desire to stop helping, the desire to hurt her, and the desire to be free, don't you? Perhaps the two of you discussed that change and the discussion was fruitless, and so it didn't come up in your timeline... but when you look at what you're learning from this episode to carry forward in your life, there's a substantial difference between, "I fell out of love with someone, and then I broke up with them in an indirect way that was more hurtful than necessary," and "I was in a relationship that stopped meeting my needs, but I couldn't talk about it with my girlfriend, and because I couldn't discuss it I became angry and sabotaged the relationship until she broke up with me." The lesson about how not to leave remains the same. But, learning to communicate about your dissatisfactions before you reach the eject point, could ultimately make you and your future partners a lot happier.
Best of luck to you.

Yes AlphaBanty@55, I had a similar response after Whatif commented.
If your needs aren’t being met Whatif, that’s a solid reason for standing up for yourself though not for doing so with anger and nastiness. It is hard to see how expectations subtly change over time, till suddenly you go.. hang on, how come I’m just seen as the bottle washer round here?
Being assertive rather than aggressive is a social skill many of us don’t learn. This is an opportunity for you here, and it would add to both you and your ex learning from this.
I suggest you write her an email, apologise for your aggressive behaviour and then tell her that after some self reflection, you see your behaviour was wrong though what prompted it was how she was treating you. Her expectations you do jobs for her etc etc. that spontenaity had gone, that you felt it had become mainly a pragmatic relationship and that had killed your love for her.
Unhook both of you from this, so you both learn and can both move on.

“when she started to get mad, I liked it.” This is the where this situation crosses from a shitty breakup to emotional abuse.

LW, if you’re interested in building healthy relationships in the future, working with a good therapist might help.

I'm one of those people who feels better if I know the actual reason(s) I'm being dumped, so that I can refine my worldview to be consistent with the actual experience of what happened from both my perspective and someone else's. Thaths what "closure" means to me - I under stand what happened and why, so I can account for that in the future.

If people dump me for reasons with which I empathize, then I think they.made the right call and.can get over it by agreeing it was for the best. If people break up with me for reasons with which I can't empathize, then I think they're irrational or deceitful assholes, and I can get over it by being mad.

What I have a hard time dealing with is people actively deceiving me, stringing me along, trying to be nice rather than honest, etc. So I don't find it harder to get over someone when ze is kind/ethical (and honest), I find it harder to get over someone when I have to figure out how to parse disingenuous bullshit on top of the actual incompatibility.

ASSHOLE is very mich an asshole in my book, making things harder to deal with for the dumpee and narcissistically rationalizing it as actually making things easier, when ze's really just making things easier for zirself.

@37: Perhaps we've all done this in cases where the slow-fade is mutual: phones, e-mail, etc. work in both directions, so however bad one is at contacting other people, one is only worse than said other people if one actively ignores their attempts at communication. But I've never broken up with someone after stalling with respect to doing so after I knew I wanted out (un my case, I've done a mutual slow-fade with non-sexual friends, hence "we" in my first sentence). Of course, I'm cheating - I've never been the one who wanted out of a romantic/sexual relationship at all (which is more likely if one doesn't ever have sex with strangers, though not guaranteed, as someone whom one generally likes in a non-dating/-cohabitating context may not be a good partner in those contexts). I still think I wouldn't drag things out once I knew I was done, but I don't have evidence in favor of that, just a lack of evidence against it.

Good on you, Whatif, for recognizing the problem and wanting to get better. My advice would be to try to heed the information that self-awareness gives you sooner. When you catch yourself being a jerk more when it's not on purpose, try to figure out why that is and address the issue right away (also if it is purposeful).

It's interesting that you identify cowardice re: not wanting to be thought bad by others as your reason for avoiding being honest, but you are able to bring yourself to confront criticism here. I think that's a good sign - this is probably lower stakes beacuse we're all strangers, but that you're able to do it at all means it's more likely that you'll be able to do it when negative reactions.might come from people who matter (to you). I hope youare able to make pro-social changes to you behavior for both your sake and that of any future partners.

Whatif@51~ It’s not trolling, just an admitably harsher comment, and as with all comments you are of course free to ignore it. Sorry I didn’t treat you with the kid gloves you seem to feel entitled to... I guess you can categorize me as a troll (or an asshole) and that will make it easier for you to get over it.

DonnyKlicious@61

I think I made it clear I don’t need kid gloves, I love the criticism and actually I made an apology to my ex tonight that she appreciated based on the thoughtful remarks that other people made. Everyone was right.

I am glad to have a sounding board here, I’m glad Dan responded and I got to hear everyone’s thoughts. My letter to Dan was assholish I’m glad he made my acronym ASSHOLE. I was a dick for 3 weeks to a great woman. I can’t take take that back and I’m glad I got called out on it. That’s what good advice is, sometimes it is hard and you are wrong.

But you’re just a total dick. Good luck!

Whatif, thank you for joining back in in the comments. Truly that is a much appreciated rarity.

I will say that your letter reminded me of me trying to get out of my first relationship. I was in that relationship for many years, the first 3 of which were wonderful. I sympathize with the "nice guy" concept because I believed that breaking up would mean I was a bad person (and I didn't have the emotional maturity to know that wasn't true, or the self-esteem or emotional well being for my image of myself to take a hit), so I started sabatoging the relationship. Unfortunately, it this went on for a long time before I ended the relationship anyway, and I have deep regrets.

I am not equating our situations, or suggesting that you need the level of help that I did, but I was not capable of being a partner in good working order until I spent some time in therapy (and read 14 years of Savage Love and all of the comments in a two year span). I also understand the people pleasing "acts of service" concept and the negative emotions that that can engender.

Part of having low self-esteem for me meant performing herculean levels of thoughtful tasks for any partner in an effort to "trick" them into loving such an unworthy person. The problem being, aside from my obvious issues at the time, that people are very appreciative of such things until they become a base-line normal in the relationship, at which point their absence becomes a concern rather than their presence being a constant delight the way you hope they will. That would make me resentful, but it all stemmed from my attempts to sort of "buy" love and affection with gifts and action rather than understanding that I was deserving of love regardless, and that those actions are supposed to come from affection rather than being geared towards garnering it.

I still do those things in my current relationship, but I don't do them because I need to be, or expect to be, rewarded or thanked (although I enjoy it and am happy when I am). With all of that said, I desperately needed the change in perspective that came from recognizing my own worth, that there are few good reasons for maintaining a bad relationship, and that a kind and honest ending to a relationship should be considered not a gift, but a right.

I used to believe that I was a good guy back then, it took me years to recognize what an asshole I was. You should be happy that you are seeing your part and that you can apologize.

Lastly, I just want to reiterate that I am not trying to suggest that you suffer from the same issues as I, just that your comments rang true to me so I felt like weighing in.

Whatif @53, I'm sorry to hear about your ex-wife's cheating. But my ex-husband wasn't cheating and I was both hung up on AND angry with him for a long time. I'm glad the cheating had the silver lining of helping you cross a hurdle in processing your divorce, but that doesn't mean it was right for your then-wife to cheat, right? Divorce is huge and of course it distorts our view of what relationships -- and breakups -- should be. Temporarily, though. I hope you get back on your emotional feet soon. And yes, talking to a therapist might help. (I didn't, but I was not capable of having healthy relationships for a good many years.)

John @59, I've been guilty of trying to make a relationship work when in retrospect it was past time to be over, but I've never strung someone along for more than a few days when I was sure I wanted out. I just can't keep up that sort of pretense. The few days were just to compose my thoughts on how to phrase the breakup, because as you say, it's bullshit to pull an "it's not you, it's me" when that's a lie, but at the same time you don't want to be needlessly cruel when you know "I'm dumping you" is going to hurt as it is. (Once, I delayed a breakup by a few days because I realised that my next opportunity to have the talk would have been the 14th of February... I think anyone would agree that pretending for a few days was forgivable in that circumstance!)

Donny @61, your no-nonsense, bitchy quips are often entertaining, but the difference here is that the LW is here reading them. Yes, he was an asshole; he knows this. He wants to be less of an asshole. Berating him for being an asshole is neither amusing in this situation nor helpful.

Well done Whatif for apologising. Good luck to you.

To the LW: You weren't pretending to be an asshole and a coward, you merely discovered that's what you truly are. You are a bullet to be dodged by all future women until you grow up and stop giving yourself gold medals for being a truly shitty person.

We have one life to live. I would rather remember as much of it pleasantly even if we of it comes with a tinge of sadness. When relationships end on bad terms the whole relationship becomes clouded, that's a whole set of memories to avoid. Decent people, while free to do whatever they want with their own memories, should not force others to negate entire chunks of their own lives for no reason.

Seventieslilo @66

Yea, I give myself gold medals for being a shitty person and admitting it. What does that mean and how is it helpful? That’s insane. I’m a shitty person. Period.

I was shitty,

I don’t want to be shitty in the future. I am glad people called me out on it. That’s why I wrote Dan in the first place. Because I want advice, from an advice columnist and he gave me a slap in the face that I deserved.

We are exchanging stuff tomorrow over lunch, things like phone chargers, clothes and Tupperware. I’m sure we will talk more and I will use everyone’s advice to be blunt and honest and apologize again.

It’s not going to be fun, but your comment, as true as it might be, isn’t helpful. I know I fucked up, but I want to leave her in the best way I can and having her hate me clearly was a cowardly and awful thing to do. I don’t deserve a gold star for realizing I’m a dick. I’m still a dick, thanks for reiterating that.

I’m not pretending to be good for apologizing, I’m realizing I was wrong and I have to live with that. Do you want me to continue to a jerk, or do the right thing once, since I did the wrong thing for weeks and hurt someone?

And finally, thank you BiDanFan, SavageMarquis, John Horstman, Lavagirl and everyone that wrote in. I could go on and on, but scrolling up and down is taxing on my thumbs... You are why I wrote in the first place, for constructive criticism, understanding the guilt I feel and advice so I never hurt anybody in the future like I did.

Donny, Seventies and the like, remember this is an advice column, not a hate column. Get on reddit if you want to spew hatred instead of acting like a decent person. I always think if you wouldn’t say something to someone over coffee in a public setting, then you shouldn’t say it online. This isn’t a playground, it’s a person hurting and realizing he did something terrible.

Should the LW (generic) jumping into the comments change your ability to treat them like a real person? Asking on @51's behalf.

@43: Without in any way exonerating you from blame, I've gotta say that this woman doesn't sound like an especially "great person" from what you describe. At best she sounds dependent, and inclined toward the kind of depressive, companionable relationship that works for some but clearly doesn't work for you. At worst, she sounds like a user.

You describe, at length, doing things for her that a non-disabled adult would normally do for themselves, like driving to the store, making important phone calls, handling their own finances, and changing the light bulbs in their own home. And "it made her furious that I wouldn’t help with her life like I used to" -- what a strange turn of phrase, as though any of us is entitled to that kind of help! If someone is "just wanting a partner that helped with the day-to-day of her life", well, that's why people hire personal assistants or housekeepers, who are paid for their efforts.

I think you should consider the possibility that you're underplaying the amount of resentment you feel, and felt, toward this "great person". Perhaps you haven't given us the full picture, but the picture you gave us is full of resentment and guilt. In that context, your shitty breakup behavior sounds a lot like a way of expressing anger without having to have a hard conversation.

P.S. Outside of a handful of urban areas where you can get everywhere without a car, having a non-driving partner in a relationship in the car-centric US is a red flag. I know so, so many couples where one person didn't drive and the other person shuttled them around, and in all of them the driver came to resent it.

The not-driving can be a symptom of a personality type that, deep down, wants someone to take care of them and free them from worries. They're looking for a parent, not a partner.

@Ytterby Be Mine
Is anyone surprised that, after a (wonderful) absence of over 2.5 months, "Ytterby Be Mine" returned with this.

A man writes us (agreeing) with everyone that he treated a woman he had /loved/ "shitty"; he has come to a healthy realization that he doesn't "want to be shitty in the future". (Which seems to me a priceless opportunity to grow to be a better person.)

Yetterby's message is to criticize the woman. The victim. (But, as always with YBM, criticize the woman.)

Growth is hard, Yetterby, please don't try to convince someone (let alone someone we know is reading these comments) trying to be a better person not to.

(Oh, as to your points, who knows. But people do things for each other, they give to each other, they cooperate, it bonds people.)

@WhatIf
I'd like to defend DonnyKlicious. It might be helpful to think of what he said differently than as 'a troll to be disregarded'.

Donny is one of our most-respected regulars. (And I think the best comedian.) I've never seen him be so harsh before. He did mention @48 he's had bad breakups. Maybe his ill will towards you came out of someone having treated him like you treated your GF. Maybe that you elicited what you did from Donny could be helpfully seen as a measure of how deeply a bad breakup hurts someone. Of how much /you/ hurt someone WHO YOU HAD LOVED.

I know one of my own triggers is a discussion of simply not breaking up in person. (Let alone by text.) But honestly, as bad as I felt that was when it happened to me, it pales in comparison to how hurt I'd be if someone who had cared about me made me /hate/ her.

So logically if /that/ makes me mad, why didn't I get upset with you? Maybe the only reason is that I was so curious with the (I think fascinating) psychological question you posed that I wanted to focus just on that @33.

I can't tell you how happy I am that you want to not do that in the future. I hope it's true; it would bring me great hope if it is. (Because honestly I'm surprised by your good intentions for the future, if someone just told me a guy did what you did, I'd guess they were most likely an untreatable sociopath Thank goodness I'd have guessed wrong with you!)

Whatif and BiDan~ Points taken, and I offer sincere apologies for being rather harsh in my comments. I have little patience for people who use anger and abuse as a go-to strategy, and give LW props for realizing that his might not have been the best path. In my defense however, the LWs mea culpas were absent from the original letter and only expounded on much later in this thread. So, Whatif, (and I say this with no bitchiness or ill will attached) what I hear is, “Yes, I was an asshole” but what I would really like to hear is, “I’m serious about getting to the root of why I think anger was a great emotion during my breakup, and rationalized that it would be good to turn that on someone I loved. I’m going to take responsibility and get on down to do some serious sessions with a counselor to remove that aspect of thinking from my life.”

It's great when lying assholes like ASSHOLE contradict themselves within a few sentences, so you don't have to waste a lot of effort figuring out whether they're lying. (See, Trump, Donald J.).

ASSHOLE claims "It wasn’t on purpose, it wasn’t a plan, I know it was cowardly." But within a few sentences, the lying asshole says "I'm glad she hates me now. She can feel anger instead of sadness. I didn't want to be a "great guy" that did the right thing when the relationship needed to end. I wanted her to think I’m awful so she can move on with her life." ASSHOLE's excuse is that he was an asshole because he wanted her to hate him, which is to say that he did plan it.

What a lying asshole ASSHOLE is.

Me @75. The closest I ever came to this was a girlfriend I tried to break up with honorably, but she basically refused to break up, like George Costanza's girlfriend who rejects his proposal to break up. She insisted that I give it some more time and the conversation was emotionally draining, so I gave in. After a couple of weeks of that and her resisting the breakup, I did begin to resent the situation and I'm sure I did get less pleasant before we finally formally broke up.

So, I do understand the problem of trying to be non-confrontational in a breakup, but ASSHOLE is being a dishonest asshole about it.

OK. I read all the comments now.

Congratulations, ASSHOLE, on being brave enough to face the angry mob and try to learn from this. Like pretty much everyone here, I love it when a LW gets involved in the comments. It makes it easier to see them as a human being and a bit less fun to see how many times you can use both "ASSHOLE" and "asshole" in a comment.

That said, I don't regret the substance of my comment @75. It seems to me that your letter reveals that your behavior was, in large part, deliberate and you were not being honest about that, but you're trying to learn from your mistake and that's excellent. Admitting you were wrong is hard for all of us. I have high hopes for you to learn to handle these things better. I have improved from the me of 20-some years ago mentioned in my comment 76. I'm still not perfect, but I'm getting better.

Later, ASSHOLE

In their next lives (should they have any), I have made a match between Mr Curious and Ms Fichu.

This was a fascinating debate, and I appreciate everyone’s comments, even the ones that pissed me off.

I’m going to meet my ex tomorrow for lunch, and I will be more prepared to apologize appropriately for being an ASSHOLE. It’s a breakup, it’s never fun, and I definitely did not stick the landing and I hurt someone for 3 weeks when I should have ended it sooner.

Thank you all.

Whatif, it's fitting that you got the lucky number! Good luck with your chat, I hope you both find some closure and can move on amicably.

@78 vennominon
Why thank you, venn. I can't recall anyone ever matchmaking for me before. (Even if I'm not sure if a 'next-life' match counts.)

@77 dcp123
"I love it when a LW gets involved in the comments. It makes it easier to see them as a human being"

Tangentially, taking that a step forward, I'm reminded that the times I've at first only virtually known people on Internet forums, then met them IRL, I /genuinely/ got to see them as a full human beings in all their dimensions. In one case, someone I experienced online as tediously dumb, IRL I liked as warm, positive, and let's just say a bit too talkative.

@37 You’re asking whether someone acting with deliberate cruelty is the same as someone acting accidentally? Because I think one is obviously worse. Would you feel the same when someone bumped into you the hallway as you would if they walked up to you have shoved you? The feeling of hatred or callous indifference they must have toward me would hurt along with whatever they actually did.

Well, that was a fascinating ride...

@73: I hope you enjoyed that paroxysm of hostility (and "2.5 months", how totally non-creepy of you to count!). But you've missed my point completely. I'm not criticizing his soon-to-be ex, I'm pointing out that for all his insistence that she's a "great person", EVERYTHING concrete he had to say about her was, by most standards, unequivocally negative. (It astonishes me that basically no one pointed this out.)

This means one of two things:

1) She isn't actually a great person, or
2) Whether or not she's "great", he clearly doesn't PERCEIVE her as the "great person" he insists she is.

It's irrelevant which is the case. The point if the LW wants to know WHY he suddenly, mysteriously decides to push this woman away, I think he should take a really, really hard look at what he wrote, because it seems full of a covert resentment (and guilt over that resentment) that PREDATES the decline of the relationship. And people who put their partners on pedestals -- insisting over and over again about what a "great person" she is -- are frankly MORE likely to treat them like shit in my experience, so I see his idealizing of her as counterproductive and worth calling out.

As for you, well...honestly, I don't think anyone who would unironically, un-self-consciously describe another person as "unevolved" (#33) should be throwing stones. Your posts invariably make me picture one of those ponytailed yoga dudes who loudly proclaims his feminism at every opportunity (but whose unresolved rage and quiet contempt for women are patently obvious to anyone who's been around the block), and who preferentially seeks out passive women whom he lectures into submission with his "evolved spirituality". The thing about white knights is that, deep down, they almost never see women as equals.

It's true that, in this strongly pro-female space, I'm probably statistically more likely to criticize women for the sake of restoring the balance. You can be assured I do the opposite when faced with a room full of conservatives. My philosophy is that I speak up when someone disappoints me by being full of shit -- and especially, when people are holding themselves or their "team" to a different standard than they apply to everyone else. Because I see women as equals, I speak up.

Ytterby Be Mine @ 85

I just checked in to see if anyone was still posting and I appreciate your response. There was lingering resentment and I still put her on a pedestal. You are right.

But everyone I have dated, including my ex-wife, were borderline alcoholics and wrecks when they were out of work.

To date a studious foreigner working for her PhD, who had never had a drop in her life, and worked until midnight, was a breath of fresh air. She taught me that the day doesn’t end after cooking dinner, no Netflix and relaxing. Back to work until bed. Relaxing was for the weekends. I respect her so much for her ambition and when she did want to take a break, she was caring and wonderful.

So don’t forget that I was an ASSHOLE. She knows what she wants, and works tirelessly for it. That is her priority. I hurt her by not providing the support she desires. She isn’t bad, maybe her expectations are unrealistic, I can’t be her butler, but I should have left when I couldn’t fulfill them and instead of doing the right thing, I got resentful and let it last way too long.

But thank you for bringing up her, this entire thread has been about me and my actions. Nobody seemed to care what she was like. So thanks.

And also, thanks again to everyone else. I feel so much better about the end of the relationship after being honest with her. I hope she feels better too and will trust future partners and not be scarred by my assholishness.

@86 WhatIf
"I feel so much better about the end of the relationship after being honest with her."

Right on!

@86: Thanks for writing back. I do agree with @88, though: from your "butler" description, your ex had really inappropriate expectations, and it's a little strange that you don't yet seem to fully realize that.

It's one thing if you work it out so that you do the dishes and she does the laundry, and do unpleasant tasks for each other. But it's sketchy to expect your partner to handle your own personal chores -- things that grown adults do for themselves -- unless you're financially supporting them in exchange for their time (and you both agree to that arrangement). In a two-career relationship, it makes no sense at all for one person to shoulder all the chores.

The thing I've been wondering from the start -- and your most recent post reinforces this -- is whether you're in the kind of mental space where you think there's something fundamentally wrong with you as a person, and so you're lucky when a woman is interested in you and see yourself as having no right to complain or feel anger if she behaves badly.

This is a thing that a lot of people do: they get in a relationship with someone who may have a lot of good qualities, but some serious red flags as well. And because their self-esteem is shit, they adopt a kind of martyrdom routine, putting the other person on a pedestal and insisting that they're "great", and always being super-nice and super-accommodating no matter what because that's what a good partner does, right?

And then, seemingly out of nowhere, they (i.e. you) lash out and do something shitty, ruin everything, and wonder why they're such an asshole -- seemingly unaware of the resentment that's been building in them like a pressure cooker. If you're with someone who behaves badly but you put up with it and pretend you don't mind because you think you're lucky to have them, sooner or later the resentment finds an outlet.

It's great that you're recognizing your bad behavior and trying to make amends, and I'm not denying that you acted like an ASSHOLE (acronymically speaking). But if you don't want to do it in the future, you should ask yourself some hard questions about why you've been with the people you've been with, and whether -- like a lot of people -- you've been repeatedly drawn to people with serious red flags because you don't feel like you're good enough to have a chance with anyone who's free of red flags.

Your ex may be a wonderful scholar and thinker, she may be a terrific world citizen and an ambitious achiever, and she may be a great person to be with when things are going the way she wants. All those things may be true -- but you just don't turn your partner into your butler and personal chauffeur, make them do your chores, and then lose your shit when they stop. It's bad behavior, and red flag city.

One of my best friends told me about a colleague of his who wanted out of his marriage. He told my buddy (after it was over) that his plan was to simply be away from his house as much as possible. He practically lived at his office, volunteered to work extra hours and projects until finally his wife asked him for a divorce.
We both agreed that it was a cowardly thing to do. Fast forward 15 years and my buddy's wife asked him for a divorce. Her reasons? she told him:.. " I don't think you are happy and I know I am not happy. I want out".

@90 sb53
What a story!
Because he chose not to address it directly, they were both unhappy for FIFTEEN years.

@90 sb5

Agree with curious2 that is a story! But what is the point of the story?

Your buddy’s colleague was a dick like me and pretty much forced his divorce by his absence, and then your buddy still got divorced after 15 years of being unhappy.

Everyone, including Dan, said that both of those scenarios are awful, and it’s better to end things honestly, without building resentment, and quickly.

So, is your point that your buddy’s coworker was better for being an asshole? And saved 15 years of his life by being an asshole? Or... I don’t know, just confused by your anecdote. However interesting it is, I don’t see how it applies. Clarification please.

I think maybe sb53 was simply telling a particularly sad story. Timewise even worse than yours, so maybe WhatIf can take some solace that it coulda been worse (everything can always be worse).

I shoulda left my marriage long long before I did, finally after ten years. A friend made me feel better with three little words: "coulda been twenty!"

yeah, with the additional information it sounds like 2 damaged people treating each other poorly. at least the l-dub is questioning himself and trying to grow.

much better to be the next SO of the l-dub than the next butler for his ex. she sounds awful. pure ambition ages poorly in a partner. l-dub, you went from dating alcoholic wrecks to dating a workaholic wreck. not a good enough improvement.

As I just posted over on SL weekly comments (thanks curious2 for pointing out LW had joined this thread) - LW sounds harsh on himself, GF seems to have been taking advantage of his "acts of service." Withdrawing cooking 4 course meals, being a chauffeur, no longer being the handy person changing light bulbs - not exactly what I had imagined from the harsh way LW described his behavior in the original letter.

@89 Thank you Ytterby. You made this discussion for me. You provided new and thoughtful perspective and truly listened to Whatif. The way he sounds, he’s had too many people in his life telling him what he should be and not enough people like you who help him with understanding the situation and his options. This discussion was depressing until you jumped in. I don’t know where curious’ reaction @73 came from, but I feel the complete opposite. I hadn’t seen you here before and will be looking for more comments from you in the future!

What a kind post, Gigilamoroso, thank you!

We do not have her side of the story (unless it's in the middle of the thread, TL;DR)
Perhaps her version is just as self-serving and rationalizing as "Oh I Know I'm A Dick (but REEEESONS!!)"

There is no try.

@92 My reason for adding this very true story was that sometimes I wonder if the the letter-writers here are real or made up. I am adding my 2 cents here to verify that people really do act this way in real life. My buddy who ended up single after 39 years of marriage has since found love again and is living happily with a recently-widowed lovely woman, his ex has re-married as well so both are now happy with other folks.

Ybetter be mine was a nice viewpoint to read, thank you as well.

@99 Well that's a nice ending to all that! Glad to hear it.

@Whatif OP, thanks for following up, surprised more of the LWs don't...