Comments

104

36, 38, 100- Sublime, BiDan, Harriet-- Thanks for the education. I thought my conjecture was just musing and not offensively wrong, but when 3 of you took the time to correct, I'm paying attention.

105

@78 Philophile
"The boyfriend's behavior was more worrisome to me."

Yes. And yes there are things like those you mentioned we don't know that could change the picture if we did.

@86 BucksFan
I agree with Ricardo, that was a spectacularly funny and incisive comment, thank you, it /would/ be absolutely great if you stuck around!

I get heated enough just being one of the peanut gallery here, it must be some experience to have the crazy Internet opining about your intimate life and choices.

Good luck to the Bucks! (Never mind that my team and I fervently and openly covet Giannis.)

106

People debating whether Dan should have called the third an asshole could have, y'know, accepted at face value the letter-writer's statement that the third was kind of an asshole. Especially given that the LW seems not only GGG to a fault, but willing to cut people slack beyond the call of duty, more generally, even outside the bedroom, lessening the likelihood that LW somehow randomly defaults to calling people "kind of an asshole" anytime she's not 100% thrilled.

107

@99: Go back and read her comments. She alludes that being naked with men not respecting her boundaries is fucking nightmare. The comment was of general experience, not one event. But whether it was one event, two, or many does not discount the fact that she was unnerved by these situations and these issues.

It is obvious that multiple partner situations don't float everyone's boat. My advice to go back to a twosome can be disregarded, just like anyone else's advice. It's not shaming, it's logic.

If you find my commentary unwelcome, you're free to scroll past without reading. I won't be offended.

108

108 is a good number. Not sure exactly why, but I like it.

109

I'm going to mostly stay out of this conversation except to say: dump the motherfucker already!

110

And dump him good.

111

@108/CalliopeMuse: You are a woman. The Hebrew word for woman is אישה. Aleph, Yod, Shin, He. In Gematria, these letters have the values 1, 9, 90, and 8, which adds up to 108. So you liked the number because you saw yourself represented in it.

112

Ms Joy - I believed the sentence, "I thought this guy was kind of an asshole." was sincere, and stopped there, not having anything to say that depended on whether the assessment was correct. I read many of the comments as being not so much about what Mr Savage should have called Third per se but as considering the nature of the evidence provided - rather like members of a jury agreeing the defendant had a motive but wanting evidence of opportunity before voting to convict.

Ms Bucks - I've been there, and I'm on the small side. The three things that spring to mind first are only to attempt the encounter when beyond certain that at least the primary partner is of fine and upstanding character, to make sure that they're both at least sufficiently immobilized as to be unable to stop you should you decide to make a speedy exit, or to stick to women, with whom your experiences have been good. I am now long retired, but there are things I'd like to have done successfully, but which were too risky to try, or where I gave up after sufficient failure.

113

As I wrote @56, our good BucksFan@37 told us she'd had good

"threesomes....can be very pleasurable...really enjoyable and respectful".

So don't be fooled it was pure sex-negative trolling for raindrop@51 to tell her, about her two bad threesomes:

"Maybe just one man and cultivate that thing called love and just keep it an old-fashioned twosome. So much more satisfying, and safer."

I have little patience with and time for trolls and idiots. I'm just sick of them. Barely read them, certainly won't spend much typing to waste the time which is a troll's goal for us. And raindrop's standard procedure.

114

Joy @ 106 - "People debating whether Dan should have called the third an asshole could have, y'know, accepted at face value the letter-writer's statement that the third was kind of an asshole"

You're in the wrong comments thread. Taking things at face value is just not what we do here. Besides, as far as I'm concerned, taking things at face value means not using one's brain, coz you know what? People lie.

That said, we now know that he was an asshole because BucksFan chimed in to give us sufficient details of his assholery, and we all agreed. That's how things should be: given enough evidence, you can say yes. Otherwise, you'd be an absolute fool to believe everything everyone tells you. Especially in a setting like this one, where many LWs are trying to manipulate Dan/us into feeling sympathy for them (and giving them the answer they're hoping for).

115

@114: Face value is inherently subjective and anyone's prerogative. There is no arbitration going on here in these comment threads, nor should there be.

116

@114 Ricardo
Right on.

For example, just recently I was happy to believe ASSHOLE's self-assessment that he was an "asshole", whereas given that we only had one side of the story (from aforementioned "asshole"), I was unwilling to countenance his tangential and IMO unreliable story about his GF that some leapt to believe. I mean it could have been true that ASSHOLE was objectively narrating his GF's faults, but I as an "asshole" he did not earn our belief he was a reliable narrator, so as far as I'm concerned it was a gratuitous, irrelevant, and foolish tangent not worth anyone's time. (Though to be considerate to him, a visitor here who presented as willing to improve on the topic of the behavior we wouldn't agree was right, I didn't bring this up until the reader-roundup thread.)

117

It's true, there's no "arbitration". (Of course maybe raindrop meant "moderation", the standard Internet forum term for someone tasked with keeping out the garbage.)

All we have is people helpfully calling garbage garbage, but that only helps when people experience self-awareness or shame, but (look at Donald Trump) that just doesn't work on some people.

I'm thinking of one other person here (username doesn't begin with "r") who seems completely unable to see their schtick however people try to point it out.

118

Bucksfan, you seem like a sweetheart. I am glad you made it out of there safely physically and emotionally. Those guys both sound like losers. Stick to the lady threesomes or make friends with some nice dudes first.

119

Sublime, really sorry to hear you had an inconsiderate lover. It can happen to men, too, the surprise of a selfish or ignorant or just bizarre lover. But if you can compartmentalize and laugh off the weird stuff and just ask for what you want and there's some strong attraction too, it can be a nice change of pace. If your judgement about safety is ok. I think the first exposure is the worst.

120

Raindrop @107. No. You've misread it. She says this one experience of being naked with two men who didn't respect her boundaries was a fucking nightmare.

Quoting her actual words:
"I’ve had one other threesome with two men..."
"I don’t think some of you can understand the terror that comes when you are naked with two men and neither really gives a fuck about your boundaries or what you want. It is a fucking nightmare."

She has been naked with two men on exactly two occasions in her life. This. Is. Not. A. Pattern.

You are conflating this comment with YOUR general experience of living this sort of lifestyle, which presumably you enjoyed in the beginning, yes?, but grew jaded by. She also states that she has had other threesomes which DID float her boat because, hello, they involved different people than these two. Your judginess is all about you, not about her. And I'll tell you off as many times as it takes.

121

@120: Well, you obviously glossed over my last comment:

"But whether it was one event, two, or many does not discount the fact that she was unnerved by these situations and these issues."

The term "fucking nightmare" is a big red flag. Something that is typically said when situations get out of control. Whether it's one time or many, it something that is typically heeded and not risked again.

I acknowledged what you've been nagging me about, but you still are greatly obsessed for some reason to keep harping. Why? Why is it that important? Have I touched some other nerve?

122

Raindrop dahling. I used to think you were a little old conservative lady. You didn't say you were a lady? Sorry.

The letter writer did something risky that she wanted to do, and discovered that she did it with the wrong people. You assume the sex she wanted was the problem, most of us assume the people that she chose were the problem.

I've had a bit of group sex. It's awesome when the others are men but when a woman was involved it was awful. So.. Maybe it depends more on the people you have sex with, not the kind of sex you like. And maybe everyone is into different sorts of people, too. Maybe group sex is just difficult because the higher risk of shady people.

Maybe it's risky outsource your judgement to strangers on the internet.

"No need to be polite about out as you're dealing with impolite people in an impolite situation
stop allowing sex videos of you end up on the internet.
stop putting yourself in these situations."

Is bucksfan your child or subordinate that you give orders without explaining yourself?

I wrote a script she may like..
" I'm going to stop, this isn't working for me.
I'm going to have to ask you to leave, this isn't working for me.
Hello officer? Sorry to bother you, but I'm having some trouble with my date, they don't want to leave, can you swing by?
Thank you for arriving officer. They just left. Would you like a beverage?"

It's possible to politely handle impolite people. I think that it's generally more fun than flipping out on other people when I can't handle the situation.

123

@122 Philophile
Reading that was to enjoy something beautiful. I had to read it again just to bask in it as though it were a warm fireplace on a winter day.

124

@122 - OK, I agree you on the "polite" remarks.

You said:
" So.. Maybe it depends more on the people you have sex with, not the kind of sex you like. "

True, but it's also true the more personalties who are involved the greater the complexity and the greater the chance for something to be upsetting. That's the human condition. That said, I'm sure she can eventually find workable assortment of appropriate participants to make such trysts fantastic.

God bless her.

125

Wow, I can't believe all the people who are debating whether the third deserved to be called an asshole or not. Who fucking cares? He's not the one who wrote in with a problem; for all we know, he's forgotten about the whole thing by now. He's probably not reading this column, so why are you all so concerned about defending him?

126

Aw curious that was like a hug. Thank you.

Raindrop, thanks for listening, and again sorry for earlier misgendering you. I also think you have a point that she can practice (vetting partners, advocating for herself, politely setting and sticking to boundaries, hoping for the best and planning for the worst, gracefully handling rejection) in twosomes to improve her chances of a satisfying threesome with men.

It's good to be able to recognize and maintain loving relationships, and to protect yourself.
Calling people names when they make bad enough mistakes is a shortcut. To shame. It works to manipulate people who respond to shaming. But why not just reason through the mistake? Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone could be called an asshole, it's really meaningless unless you are into power dynamics. It's like a lot of people dislike reason. That makes me a sad panda.

128

Thanks Phiophile

129

All of the commentary is so interesting to me. My wife and I have enjoyed (very much!) a Vixen/Stag relationship for a long time now. There have been guys who exhibit some quality that turns her off, some she's called "douchie" or "asshole-ish". The point is, IT DOESN'T MATTER what he did (or didn't) or why she felt the 3rd was an asshole. Whether you'd prefer she said "didn't feel right" or "not into him" or "it's turning weird and I'm uncomfortable" - or calling him an asshole. The statement should be the end of the discussion. She's a "no" and that's all that matters. I agree with Dan, the LW needs to find a new partner; her boyfriend broke every rule of boundaries and trust, before, during and after the incident. Full stop.
My advice to the LW, if she ever does want to explore the lifestyle - after she DTMFA and she finds a good partner - would be to explore the local lifestyle clubs, they exist in almost every city. Boundaries are practiced, 99.9% of people follow the rules and are respectful and it's a great, supportive and fun community.
Finally, in our experience it seems to happen about 10% of the time that the dude can't get hard, too much pressure, feels rushed, he's not comfortable with me there (watching, participating, or just with her 1:1); it happens, it's normal, and sometimes it just doesn't work. It happens! I get embarrassed even after a long time doing this, ED meds make everything so much easier.

130

I'm sorry you had a bad experience @ BucksFan. I hope you're dumping your shitty consent violating boyfriend.

If you have a threesome with two guys in the future, I suggest meeting with everyone together for a coffee beforehand. This is a chemistry test to make sure you're into fucking everybody involved. You can talk about what you're into - such as being pleasured by a hand or sex toy (or tongue if you're okay with that risk level), if an erection isn't in play. You can also make sure that everybody's boundaries are clearly stated.

If you want to get to know them a bit as a human, the coffee meet up is a good time to do that. Something to note, small talk is good, but a lot of people don't want to reveal their workplace to people they only meet for sex. (for some jobs, you can't even be vague by mentioning the general industry.) So if you want to get to know them, ask about their hobbies or what books they like, etc. If they don't want to talk about anything other than sex, you can write them off, and they never need to make it to your bedroom.

131

@79 Martial arts probably won't help much with two men, each of whom was probably about 1-1/2 times her weight. Very few of us are Bruce Lee and Bruce Lee couldn't have done what he did in movies without the benefit of choreography and special effects. The fighter a few weight categories higher generally wins.


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