You serious JohnH. She is five months pregnant and you’re suggesting an abortion? Get a grip.

Wow JohnH @95, you are way out of line here. This woman is with child, and you end this thread with such a comment?
Mama, I apologise for the offensive comments that have been posted.
Don’t stress re another dick being close to the baby, who is totally enclosed in their bag of fluid, that is a strange thing to feel guilty about.
Being pregnant and being a parent are special and powerful experiences, and I hope things go well for you.

Mr Curious - You're comparing trying to repeat the words someone said with trying to repeat what someone meant. If you know your Christie, recall Lord Edgware Dies, in which Miss Carroll is so certain that the unnamed visitor was Jane Wilkinson that she fudges details and claims to have seen the woman's face when she couldn't have done. She speaks from her knowledge rather than from remembered facts.

Here's a slow chain: Asexual Advancer tells Friend 1, "Something happened that shouldn't have happened." F1 tells F2, "Something happened AA wishes hadn't happened." F2 tells F3, "Something happened AA didn't want to happen." F3 tells F4, "LW did something AA wasn't hoping he would." F4 tells F5, "LW did something AA didn't want him to do." F5 tells F6, "LW started something AA wanted not to happen." F6 tells F7, "LW initiated and kept going without AA's consent." F7 tells F8, "LW forced AA into sex." F8 tells LW, "You raped AA." Each step is a plausible interpretation of what the previous statement meant. I can get there faster if we allow for more biased interpretation.

Or take My So-Called Life, in which we never find out exactly what Jordan Catalano implied to his friends about his kissing Angela (with highly unsuccessful results that first time) in his car, but which has become Angela's going the whole hog by the time Angela and Rayanne hear it being discussed in the girls' bathroom and Rayanne asks Angela, "You mean you didn't!?"

@101 BiDanDan
I'm glad, and I'm sorry, that I misunderstood the tone of that "perhaps". But I just generally felt that whatever the tone, the LW was in a fragile enough state without the rest of that sentence.

"we can have differing opinions, can we not?"

Yes of course we can peacefully agree to disagree, I thank you.

And it is true, both our countries current events are very stressful, sorry for that too!

@104 vennominon
Good point, well-explained. I do think it's less plausible that such a chain results in 'sex crime' twice though when a LW did nothing wrong.

@101 BiDanFan
More apologies:
Perhaps I was (and it was after all me and not many others) taken-in by her descriptions of how difficult her work situation and everything else had been for her. (Having myself found sharing workplaces with ex's emotionally difficult.)

In any case I related to what I heard as a fragile emotional state she is in. It was kind of you to discuss it despite my endless harping upon it. While I most recently reacted to your kind suggestion I might not be OK, now I see your point was very well-taken.

I do very much respect your point of view that she should leave the ("cushy") job. That /would/ be great!

A couple more thoughts I had re the birthing, Mama, if you’re going for a vaginal birth.
If you can and haven’t, employ a mid wife to take you to birth, or include girlfriends to be there with you. Arrange pillows on the floor during labour, so you can lean across when you’re tired.... having your back rubbed by Father to be. Give birth in the crouching, or similar position if possible. This lying on your back crap was developed to suit male doctors.
Gravity helps here. Read too. I’ve got a few great books which came out in the 70s and 80s, when boomers were breeding.
Enjoy this wondrous time.

Here to apologize for you having to read JohnHs comments. That kind of myopic world view helps no one.

You’re doing just fine and you and your baby are gonna be just fine. Good luck!

I feel JohnH must be going thru an internal struggle, to be so down on life. Yes John, life is all those things, scary and joyful, etc.. then we die. Us westerners have it so much better than so many others on the planet, yet we still moan our existential moans. Hugs to you John.
A pregnant person has lots of hormones rushing thru their body, and if they lucky they are not sick for nine months, then those hormones can keep one feeling content. It’s a big job, making a baby, and those of us not pregnant, need to support those who are, and not judge them or only see the horrors life can be. It’s how we all got here, via a pregnancy.

SadMama, for what it's worth, in my experience small children really don't remember the things that happened in the first couple of years AFTER their birth, let alone before. Fetuses get bounced around all the time, for lots of reasons. Bus ride! Workout! Sex! They don't have different meanings on the inside, even if any thinking were going on in there. I know, pregnancy hormones and all of that, but if you can get past the expectation that you should only be fucking the biological father of your child -- and past projecting that idea onto the contents of your belly -- I think your options might get a lot more agreeable.

One other thing... I've seen a lot of criticism here for your former FWB who doesn't want to oblige you sexually now. And I agree that nobody owes anybody else sex, in any circumstance. But I'd bet there's a pretty simple and understandable reason that might make it feel less like a personal rejection. Even though the two of you have decided a romantic partnership will never be, your relationship just got profoundly bigger and more serious: you've committed to co-parenting for decades to come. On top of that, you're sharing a home for the next year-plus while you both go through a huge transformation. That? Is pretty intense. Add sex back in, and it could start to get difficult for the naked eye to tell the difference between a standard marriage-bound relationship and what you're doing. I can understand why that is someplace your partner is reluctant to go right now, maybe ever again.

This is not the last time you will have needs this person, your co-parent and current roommate and hopefully still friend, will be unable to meet, and it's a good time to be working out what you need and how to talk about it without making it his responsibility. Another sexual outlet, yes. A bed of your own, yes, even if you still periodically share.

One of your jobs right now is to get past the scramble of expectations that comes from sharing most of the markers of a long-term invested romantic relationship with children, without actually being IN one. The better you get at expressing that, the better this whole situation is likely to work out.

Curious @105, interesting that I read this woman's self-flagellations with a bit of an eye roll while you saw her as genuine, whereas I gave Mr I Was Once Almost An Incel far more benefit of the doubt than you did. Perhaps we are more critical of those of our own gender, as we can identify our own failings more closely with them? Or perhaps I've seen many women trying to wriggle out of actual consequences by turning on the crocodile tears and self-pity (and succeeding, like this one has), but not been privy to the internal thought processes of those in Mr Almost-Incel's position. He's a fool-me-once while she's a fool-me-twice, and for you it may be the other way round.

@111 BiDanFan
That's very smart. I've been pondering but not understanding what about a man who tells us 'almost an incel' about himself--even if in the past--absolutely has me on alert for other signs. So I had marked a strike against him(1) and was already suspicious before he told us about those two relationships.

It must be, as you say, something about him being male like me that makes me feel terrible about him. I feel like something must be wrong with him to have ever felt that way that I never could have.

And someone might think, my having been (as I mentioned somewhere in my recent harpings) deceived before by a GF (and had another ex turn out to be a pathological liar), that I would be more suspect of women. IRL I have learned to be less gullible, but--despite how hard I try not to read anything into letters--here in Internet-advice-land there is so much less to go on, perhaps my prejudices can easily form mirages.

I tend to like women more than men, I think I fault men for shortcomings more because I am a man so I think I know what they can be.

I think the male/female societal dynamics also inflames this for me such that:
An Incel-ly guy just disgusts me, whereas I can understand women behaving in certain ways in the context of the gender norms that have been forced upon them.

(1) I even said as much when I wrote "Way to get me on your side right off the bat, bud" at
https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2020/01/27/42681299/straight-guy-desperate-to-know-what-hes-doing-wrong/comments/64

Curious @112, I wonder if I was more sympathetic to Mr Almost-Incel than most women would have been, given my own difficulties in trying to date women! For me the difference was that Mr Almost-Incel had recognised that he'd fallen into a destructive pattern and was actually doing something concrete to change -- going to therapy, and being extra sensitive to avoid coming across as creepy. So sensitive that he let several months of a relationship pass without pressing for sex. [Yet, at least with Ms Ex-Colleague, he still did come across as creepy, so clearly he does still have some progress to make.] Whereas Ms Cheater wept and gnashed her teeth quite convincingly but was able to get exactly what she wanted without having to make any sacrifices. She felt terrible, but she didn't confess her sins nor did she quit her job. Under those circumstances, where was the incentive to change, or the evidence of any change? Perhaps that's why I doubted that she had actually learned anything from her mistakes.

@113 BiDanFan
It's true he was trying. I just couldn't bring myself to give him credit for that given that it seemed to me he hadn't had the kind of success I feel compelled to demand of my fellow men.

I try never to expect anyone to change (though be open to the pleasant surprise if they do). So honestly I lean towards criticizing myself for accepting that she had.

"difficulties in trying to date women"

(OMG, I was about to write a sentence including something about my feelings; like an idiot since I suck at that.)

I think it does say something that even /you/ say this. And so please know that the following in no way reflects on you, since you seem great at relationships:

I remember a thirtysomething bi woman I used to know lamenting that she'd never dated a woman. I knew she didn't want to know what I was thinking: that she was such a basket case that I wasn't surprised, I wondered to myself if there was a woman in the world who would put up with her literal insanity.

fubar @95, I have nothing to add to your excellent advice to Mr. Horstman

LavaGirl @107: Exactly. What you said right there. I had the good luck and privilege of attending the births of my children with midwives and dear, experienced mother friends of ours, rather than with medical doctors, drugs, and pinging machines. Everyone to their own, of course, and to their level of comfort, but pregnancy is not a serious medical condition.

@116 Even if midwives are present and drugs aren't wanted, births should still occur at or near a hospital if at all possible because while pregnancy might not be a serious medical condition, serious medical conditions do come up unpredictably when giving birth. If my mother hadn't gone to the hospital when her labor started, I would have been strangled by my umbilical cord -- she needed an emergency C-section due to fetal distress, and these things are often time-sensitive. (And no, in my case even an excellent midwife wouldn't have been able to unwind the umbilical cord from my neck -- it was wrapped around three times and tangled. An excellent midwife can maybe unwind the cord if it's wrapped around the neck once, but not three times.)

Curious @114, I felt that saying no to sex with a woman who was verbally asking for sex but clearly didn't want it was ample evidence of his success in no longer being an entitled misogynist. You might think any man should have done the same, but trust me, a lot wouldn't have.

And does having got to know me online now clue you into the fact that it wasn't JUST her issues that were getting in the way of your friend dating women? I've put up with quite a bit of insanity in the pursuit of pussy... like most men.

@118 BiDanFan
"evidence of his success"

Maybe you're right. I got the impression he's still kind a a neurotic nut from when he wrote "I don't really want to either." (I might be interpreting this wrong, but I thought he meant even he himself didn't want to, though I grant you that that might have been because she didn't) plus his banging around in the kitchen instead of using his words.

Speaking of neurotic, by coincidence just this morning I heard from the severely neurotic etc etc bi women for the first time in many years that I told the little story about @114.

Please know that the reason that I went out of my way to say it in no way reflects upon you is that I meant exactly that. IIRC you've dated women, I can't imagine she ever will. Ever.

"I've put up with quite a bit of insanity in the pursuit of pussy... like most men."

Yes, straight guys and bi-women can certainly bond over that.

While I'm kicking myself over how much insanity I've accepted, at least today I'm proud of myself for letting her know that "no" I'd rather not get together again. Because I could tell from her message she was still the same.

Curious @119, oh, yes, he certainly is still kind of a neurotic nut. A neurotic nut who realises he has toxic programming to overcome, is in therapy to deal with it, and is making great strides. (Sigh, he did use his words and they didn't work, that's why he used a ruse to physically remove himself from the situation.)

One good thing about being older is that we can see those red flags much better, and know from bitter experience to avoid them! I'm convinced that this is the reason it's famously more difficult to find love in one's more mature years. It's not that we're undesirable, it's that once we write off all the mistakes we've already made, there's not much left!

@120 BiDanFan
"the reason it's famously more difficult"

I dunno about others, but it's certainly the reason for me, and I've said the same thing. I know what to avoid, and that filtering is surprisingly impactful.

I've wondered whether for everyone not a mistake I'm avoiding, I'm a mistake /they're/ avoiding.