Widow Ready to Fuck Now, Not Ready to Love Again—Are Swingers Parties the Answer?



You/she just needs a fuck buddy - someone that is there just to have a good shag with . When finished they part until the next time .


Is this comment section functional? It’s odd to have just one comment. So this is a test.


It works!


As an older gay man I've found that since the Internet virtually all of the higher quality NSA is hooked up through various Apps and websites. There are doubtless many many many high quality semi-normal men who'd like a FWB relationship. No reason to go to the heights of desperation that are sex parties these days.


If she wants to do swinger parties she should but it feels like she's decided swingers clubs are the only way to get casual sex. She's a single woman, she can have casual sex as often as she wants using any number of apps. The biggest issue will be choosing who to sleep with out of the vast sea of men knocking on her door.


Widow needs to try dating before jumping into fuck fests. You can date without a ton of emotional connection!


Dan's answer was breathtaking.

"I was married for x years but my husband passed y years ago" or "my husband passed away" instead of widowed.
As far as a label or identity, you could add an adjective like young or simmering if you're moving on from grieving widow.


Departnered for widows, expartnered for divorcees. Maybe that's morbid.


Yeah, strange conclusion that sex clubs are the solution to her problem. Seems like driving right into the deep end of the pool before learning the doggy paddle. I mean, good luck, but you still seem a bit untethered in your logic, l-dub.


Congratulations on feeling ready to come back to the world of sex, LW. Regarding what to call yourself, I might just go with 'formerly married' and then simply say he died if there's a follow-up question.


So no one has a list of clubs? PS I support her desire for swinging instead of dating. Ditches the socializing, and gets to the goal. ;)


@9 Philophile, The benefit of choosing to start off at a well-run club event is that there is already an explicit conversation going on just by virtue of being at the event, about the kind of interaction people want to have. The majority of people dating, even casually, are open to relationships. And right now she says she's not.


Oops, sorry -- that was philosophy school dropout, not Philophile.


I prefer the definition of love of my life as a person who has a piece of your heart for as long as you live. That doesn't mean you can't/won't have more than one love in you life. It just ranks the loves that you do have in your life.


@12 Excellent point

LW, some sites to help you find events:
* swingerzonecentral.com
* FetLife - you can join groups that are solely for the purpose of posting upcoming events.


"...you're much more likely to find a room full of people who look like your aunts and uncles."

I guess I'd better cross swinging off MY list, as I've never found any of my aunts or uncles remotely attractive.


I think “surviving partner” is nice
“Relict” is an oddity and I plan to use it when the occasion arises.


WIRANA, in addition to being an avenue for you to explore non-vanilla sex, FetLife has some postings for swingers' events, so it is worthwhile join FetLife (free) even if there are other sites more focused on swinging. You might also meet a man or two at kink events who would make good casual sex partners, and decide that you don't need to attend sex parties to get sex. I would also note that generally there is not a lot of sex at kink events, and at sex parties, the kink typically revolves around gangbangs or so-called Czech Walls, in which the person being fucked does not know the identity of the people fucking them. As such, a melding of sex and kink that you want is something you are more like to explore with a partner outside of a club.

Over the past year, I have attended swinger parties in my area of Europe, and these experiences have been fun and mind expanding. As I have said before, nothing demystifies sex more than group sex. Moreover, I have had sex with a vastly wider range of women than I otherwise would through dating. Swinger parties are not merely casual sex, these are fleeting sexual encounters, and you may find yourself open to enjoying fun sex with someone whose body is not your ideal. Also, not all sex parties are the same. Some venues host larger special events, which attract more people, and with more people the greater the likelihood you find mutual sexual interest.

You mention that you are 38. If you would be described as conventionally attractive, you might also be able to navigate your way into invitation only private sex parties, where you might find more conventionally attractive men and women. The downside is that unlike public sex clubs you have the trust the vetting and security to someone who may not have the motivation to be so rigorous about these issues.


@7. Philophile. 'Breathtaking'? Do you think Dan's answer was good or bad?


Speaking as a widower, the words widow and widower are useful. They mean exactly what they mean and and give you a very quick answer to what sort of person someone is.

I am since remarried and my wonderful wife gets it totally. There are a couple of days every year when my mind goes back.


Dan, I know you said you weren't going to read the comments, but don't worry. The odds that our merry widow will fall in oxytocin, aka love, via the medium of casual sex are quite high. Much to the chagrin of all of us who were trying to avoid it.

I'd also slightly rephrase "This [saying a direct no] can be difficult for women, who are socialized to defer to men" as "This can be difficult for women, who are socialized to always be polite." It's not a you-must-always-do-what-men-say dynamic per se, but a you-must-always-be-pleasant-and-agreeable-and-not-hurt-people's-feelings dynamic that makes hard no's so difficult for many of us to say.

My suggestion would be that even though WIRANA is not kinky, fetish clubs might be her scene. Some fetish clubs are less BDSM-orientated -- hardcore players like to sneer that at these places, S&M stands for stand and model -- and instead focused more on the attire. She is likely to meet more attractive people here, and fetish clubs often have "couples' rooms" where attendees can go have vanilla sex. Make sure your outfit has an easily accessible crotch! ;) Good luck, WIRANA.


Inverse @11, word. WIRANA knows that dating is a thing, she knows that apps are a thing, she doesn't want to make that sort of emotional or time investment. I don't know why some men are trying to dissuade a woman from going to swingers' clubs, seems like she's exactly what these clubs need!

Skeptic @14, exactly. I don't see the phrase "love of my life" the same way as I see "the one." The phrase "love of my life" does not imply, to me, that there is no one else out there that one could have a happy relationship with. Nor does it imply singularity. I would say that I have had two loves of my life. I may in the future have another. Or I may just continue to have happy relationships with people I lower-case-L love, never thinking they are somehow less-than because they may not leave the same lifelong imprint on my heart that these "loves of my life" have done.

Harriet @19, or that she ran out of breath while reading it? ;)

Christopher @20, I hope WIRANA can come to terms with being a widow, as you have. Congratulations on finding another love of your life. Perhaps WIRANA would be more comfortable with the word "widowed," as an adjective to describe her, rather than a noun that feels like it's the whole of who she is?


Alternate name for widow: how about "resi", pronounced "rezee", short for residual which is the mathematical term for "the part which remains". It's also a name that means "late summer" or "harvester"


@WIRANA - perhaps consider a sex worker if within your financial means? They come and go on your schedule and you can find someone who will do exactly what you want. I would not recommend the male gigaglo sites as they seem to be the boyfriend experience and much older women which is not at all what you are / want. Head over to gay sex worker sites. Many of the guys are straight or bi or will pretend and you can get your pick of body type. Also, as others above said, swinger groups, where you meet first / more selection (maybe a Lifestyles event all weekend play "conference", BDSM munches, where your goal would be to find that FWB.


@4 older gay man "heights of desperation [sex parties]"?? The gay and queer sex parties I've been to lately are full of fun, play and joy. Too much barebacking for my taste but hopefully guys are on PrEP, and just as good as the ones from 10 and 20 years ago. If anything, better. More body-positive, more consent-positive, more variety of ages, genders / trans inclusive, ethnicities, more people talking (at some venues not all), etc. Not familiar with pre-2000s parties. Not everyone's cup of tea and different type of sex than on an app. But I don't see anything desperate about today's gay sex parties.


"Person experiencing widowhood"?

Just kidding, LW, and I can understand how the term might not be a good fit for you. But since your loss doesn't define you, why have a label at all? We struck "spinster" from the lexicon without replacing it with a less hoary alternative, and there's no reason we can't do the same for "widow." You are, among other things, a woman who lost her husband.


The only term worse than “widow” is “widower.”


@6 Yes, but the expectations for dating are different from a sex club. People dating more often than not want to meet someone to have a relationship with, or at least a connection that is not wholly based around sex. LW has made it clear that emotional intimacy is off the agenda for her at the moment, so dating seems like an unnecessarily entangled way of getting casual sex.


Commenters of Savage Love, you have convinced me that sex parties are this woman's best option. Have fun l-dub!


Is 'sex party' a cut-to-the-chase resource for sexual attention without excessive romantic interference or expectation? Or is it an arbitrary barrier she's imposing so she won't have to actually have sex with anyone?

There are lots of ways to meet people who are up for a sexual connection without wanting to ride off into the sunset. A clean, well-lighted swing party MIGHT be one.


@23 for what purpose? We already have a word that means exactly what it means.


I’m sorry for your loss LW. If you need to disclose this to others, tell them you are recently bereaved, they can surmise the rest. Widow like Wife, Husband like Widower, are powerful words, and as others have said, they say what they mean. The only words I had when my son died were grief stricken. Words are not feelings. Time will take the sting out of the word Widow.
Sex parties, I have no experience of them. Are there some around which screen age, given you’re young maybe best to hit an under forty crowd if possible. If I was designing a sex party for others, for a small fee, rules would include a few qualifiers. Strapping men under forty, hey? Sure one of them would grab your fancy.


Or if you into Goth men, that party is a fortnight off. I’d design parties for the women’s desires in mind.
Look around LW, so you do get what it is you want. Must be discerning parties going on out there. You are still fragile and you need to tend that part of yourself.


WIRANA here, thank you so much for all of the encouraging feedback. If anyone is interested, I wanted to respond to some of the comments with my perspective. As Dan said, simply: my body is ahead of my heart.

Somehow I never felt guilty about being with a new person. I just really missed having his body next to mine. I am open to loving again. It’s a work in progress to get my heart ready for that type of risk, though.

I’m as comfortable as one can be being widowed, but not with what the word “widow” implies to other people, in my experience (sad, alone, stuck in the past, needy, maybe even a little scary, sexless).

I don’t want to date (and scroll, and swipe, and text, and meet, and chit-chat, and drink, etc.) to look for casual sex. I want sex. That blasé attitude is super new for me. I want someone to enjoy my body because no one has for years. I want to enjoy other people’s bodies.

I don’t really see how swinger’s parties are the deep end (or desperate!) if the whole purpose of the event is clear and everyone is there to have a good time? And it’s on neutral ground with enforced consent rules.

I mean, I felt confident and comfortable and safe when I was at those first parties. That’s a good thing, right?

Thanks again, everyone. It’s all helpful!


So incredibly sorry for your loss.

I think 'unpartnered' is a good, neutral term that leaves room for you to explain further or withhold the details, depending on your mood/feeling about the person you are talking to. 'Unpartnered' is just unusual enough to lead people to think there might be more to it than just singledom or divorce, but not strange enough that people will be put off or will fail to understand the meaning of what you're saying.


I'm a widow.

When I use the word with people newly met, they tend to say something like "I'm sorry" to which I answer "It was a long time ago" and then move the conversation on. To me, the way it feels is that if I wanted to lean in on the poor sad sympathy-needing bit, they'd feel obligated to let me, but also that if I don't, they won't. Most people are not that interested in talking about difficult subjects, and will happily move on if you signal that it's OK to.

I have to say, I got kind of a judgey feel from the first part of Dan's answer. If someone who was not a widow wrote in and said "I'm not really interested in a relationship right now, I just want some sex" he'd just believe them, and go on to give the advice. My husband has been dead for 12 years, I have zero interest in finding somebody else, and I got the feeling that if I said that to Dan, he'd think there was something wrong with me, going by the first part of his answer. It's the first time here I've ever felt judged.


Not sure what to say to you agony. Don’t let Dan’s opinions define you.. you know who you are and why you feel as you do. Some of it could be Dan’s projection, he couldn’t see himself alone for too long.


Re: The myth of the one. Theoretically your perfect (soul) mate is out there somewhere, but the odds of winning the Powerball jackpot is 26 times greater than finding that person among the 7.7 billion living in the world. The best that anyone can expect is finding someone close enough for government work.


It is also possible that, over time, someone can become the one. The best example is when a spouse dies and their spouse dies (not from disease, an accident, murder etc) shortly thereafter.


I wasn't following the part about the dog, but that's neither here nor there.

FWB/FB is my go-to in my responses almost always because a good friend cares about you. I get why that might be a little more difficult in this specific situation--perhaps the friend might start to want more. But I still think that's the way to go: identify single male friends or friends in open relationships and explain (explicitly) what you want and don't want. A good friend will know what you've been through and understand what you want.


As a recent widow myself, I absolutely don't blame her for not being ready for a relationship. Being open to committing to someone new after going through the hell of watching your partner die is inconceivable to me. It may happen some day, but there is no way it would happen anytime soon. The culture already puts a shit-ton of expectations on us as to how we should behave--are we grieving the right way? For the right length of time? We know love is possible again, just don't push it on us. Wounds take time to heal.


WIRANA@34~ Alway love it when a LW joins the commentariat. I think you’re spot on in considering swingers’ clubs, or organizations like SwingLifestyle.com that hold parties & provide a way to connect & screen prospective play partners. A single woman friend of mine was in the lifestyle for a couple years, and she enjoyed the swinging “rules” that put an emphasis on not doing anything without consent. She stopped because she grew tired of always going home alone while most of the other people there we’re partnered, but since that is your express desire this would seem like a good fit for you right now.


@34. WIRANA. Swingers' parties and sex clubs are not 'deep end' or desperate. Nor would fetish parties be. It makes sense, if you crave sex above all, to cut out time-consuming activities. I am very sorry for your loss and wish you love later, sex now! :)


Schmacky @27, why is widower worse? Surely they are the same?
Actually, "widower" seems a rare example of a word that describes a woman being masculinised, usually it's the other way around. Is that what offends Schmacky so?

Thanks for checking in, WIRANA @34! I can see how you want to avoid the sympathy-provoking connotations of the word widow, when what you really want to convey is single and ready to mingle. :) Perhaps just say that you are single, which you are, and if asked about past relationships just say that your husband passed away? Best of luck to you.

Agony @36, yes. I was perplexed by Dan's side-lecture and admit I skipped most of it. He rarely second guesses LWs for stating what they want; I wonder what spurred him to do so in this case?

Surfrat @40, a good friendship takes a lot more time and investment than a random dick, and even more so when the friendship involves sex.


"I’m as comfortable as one can be being widowed, but not with what the word “widow” implies to other people"

First, the word implies to me none of those things you listed; other people would only think those things if they projected them.

But don't feel any need to tell them any more than you want to. I'm so very sorry that your truth is so painful. You can just start with something vague like "it's complicated" to avoid telling them more before you want to.


Re: Dan's patented "there is no One" talk. I think it's objectively true. I can also see how it might be seen as the wrong talk to give to someone who is grieving heartbreaking loss. (In that it might be heard as devaluing the loss.) But sometimes just because something is hard to hear doesn't mean it can't be helpful. The talk doesn't have to mean 'get out there and find another One', it can just give hope that if one gets to the point where one wants another One, another One can be found.


@46: curious2, sometimes another One can't be found.


@44 I think LavaGirl @37 is right - Dan just is devastated by the idea of losing a partner and being alone for life. Whenever anyone calls into the podcast about the death of a partner, he falls all over himself saying how sorry he is, to the point he can't always address the question.

And it's kinda like why our LW doesn't want to identify as a widow - you don't always want to hear all that, or evoke that kind of emotion in some random stranger.

It is indeed an extremely big deal to be widowed, but, especially when one is a few years on and not so raw, it's not the only identifying characteristic. It's a fact about me that I feel no need to hide, but it's not the only fact about me, and in most contexts, it's not the most important fact about me.


@47 nocutename
True but I wasn't saying that one could be objectively, I was saying that it can be good to give hope that one can be.


@49: I have given up hope. I've resigned myself to being alone for the rest of my life. I have lots of friends and a family and that's more than a lot of people have, but I would love to have "my person," and it's been difficult and painful to acknowledge that that isn't likely to happen.


@50 nocutename
I guess I meant that it might be good to give hope to someone grieving heartbreaking loss.

However, (yikes) hearing your honest sharing, I think I've resigned myself to exactly precisely what you have. But I conceptualize it like this: I accept the unlikelihood, but I also embrace the hope.

That probably didn't make much sense; what I mean is that I try to use a duality like this everywhere in my life:
On one side I have peace with acceptance. OTOH I have hope; without the hope I think I would get in the way of the potential for what I would love to happen, and I sure don't want giving up hope to end up being self-defeating. In other words I try extremely hard not to get in my own way, but I also try to live in acceptance.

Most of the time I don't /focus/ on the acceptance, but the acceptance does lead me to approach the hope with less potential for disappointment.

Maybe I'm the only one this kind of duality makes sense and feels important to, but it does feel very important to me.


So often, I think Dan hits the nail on the head, but he is projecting hard on this letter. The letter writer never said that she wouldn't love again. She can't love right now, because she's terrified, as she said. It's scary to come to grips with the fact that everybody you will ever love is mortal and is going to die. And it's even more scary to let yourself fall in love with a new human while you're in the middle of coming to grips with mortality. Letter writer is doing just fine on that front.

The world we know is transient. We are all transient. Time is fleeting. Most people deal with this through denial until they face a loss that hits close enough to home. Once the denial is shattered, we have to go through to the other side to make peace with it. And, still, there's probably some denial still once you get to a point of making peace with it.

The letter writer is talking to a therapist to help her through all this. She's doing the right thing. Right now, there's probably no emotional energy left for another person after she's done feeling all the emotions flowing through her right now.


@25 and various others: My "heights of desperation" comment comes from experiences at Gay Sex Parties and Sex Clubs around both NYC and Chicago. While there are often needles in the haystack, the stack itself tends to be largely made up of guys who can't get laid IRL, or who are sex addicts or freaks. Not that there's anything wrong with that.... But the sex addicts and freaks can be located on the apps without dealing with the dudes who I'm not gonna bang.


Sincerely sorry for your loss WIRANA. And happy to know you are ready to have sexual intimacy with other people. Never been to a swingers club, but have been to a few sex parties and it can be a really sweet and lovely environment. Go for it!

I have another recommendation, in case it may be useful. Check out the polyamorous community in your area. In my experience, poly people tend to have a very relaxed attitude to sex, and understand well that one can have wonderful sex without a romantic package. It may be a good community to find a fuckbudy who will sincerely care for you (i.e., be a good friend) without placing all of his (or hers) emotional investment in you, because they can find other partners where they can scratch the romantic itch (if they have one).

More conceptually, and here I am just guessing that perhaps this could apply to you, I am thinking that there is a parallel between your situation and polyamory. You may well find that your deceased husband will always be a presence in your life, someone you will keep loving forever, someone whose memory you actively want to keep as a part of your life. If and when you find a new romantic partner in the future, you may find that it is easier to be with someone who is not freaked out by this presence, who is not crippled by jealousy, who is not insecure that the place of THE ONE has already been taken in your heart. From my little (second-hand) experience of the subject, deceased partners can provoke massive insecurity (more than alive exes) because they become this ghost into which all perfection can be projected forever and ever, they are essentially unbeatable competitors. But poly people are used to being partnered with people who love others, to accept it, to respect it, and even to embrace it.

Wish you all the best.