@115 -- "Did he [Pro Status Quo Joe] attack Bernie on his heart troubles?"

"The fact that Sanders is 12 years older than the average age of men who have heart attacks (66 years old) ought to be seen as a sign of his body’s resilience.

Sanders has continued to prove after this incident just how active he is: Days after the surgery, he played in a baseball game. He is still campaigning, going out and meeting voters and speaking about the issues he has fought for for years. 

In fact, it’s former Vice President Joe Biden that America should be worried about. 

The list of Biden’s verbal mistakes is long and ongoing, as are his list of health issues. In the past, Biden has suffered from allergies, asthma, high cholesterol, an irregular heartbeat, an enlarged prostate, two aneurysms and gallbladder removal.

The fact that Biden also continues to stutter, misspeak, forget and slur words is also concerning for the majority of voters who want a candidate who is obviously healthy and able to take on the hardest job in the country."

https://dailycampus.com/stories/2019/10/31/joe-bidennbspneeds-tonbspgonbsp

LOL!?!? Warren STILL HASN't endorsed Bernie! HAhahahahahahahaha. Even if she did Bernie would be stuck at 30%
The revolution has yielded all of 3 Socialists in Congress in 50 years... and I'm sure if Bernie somehow won, those 3 people could get Medicare for all passed... jesus people vote with your head not your heart.

Either candidate can beat Trump. Who will help retake the Senate? (answer: NOT Bernie)

Civics 101: If it don't pass the Senate, it don't pass, no matter how loud we scream. Sadly, the SECB doesn't get it. Or they do and are just prioritizing values over pragmatism (which is fine, but don't fool yourselves).

Voting for Bernie is about as courageous as voting for McGovern.

"So, this [over 50] is a really important demographic in the election. And so Biden’s support here is a mile wide, but an inch deep, because as soon as people find out what he’s doing on healthcare… so he’s provided nothing, absolutely zero for people over 65 who get actual Medicare. And I think a lot of people don’t know that because they’re thinking, well, Medicare for all, that’s getting everybody what I already have.

But no, it’s actually much more than that. They don’t have dental care. And, you look at the data, a lot of senior citizens are losing teeth because they don’t have dental coverage and they don’t have eyeglasses covered. They don’t have hearing aids covered, they don’t have long-term care, and Biden provides them absolutely nothing.

So here’s healthcare reform, and it leaves out the over 65. There is one thing in there for long-term care, but it’s a non-refundable tax credit, so the vast majority of seniors wouldn’t be eligible for it.

So, there’s really nothing for them, and that’s going to be a scandal when that actually gets into the campaign, because that’s a really big thing. I mean, they’re going to realize that everybody at least is going to get some little bit from this healthcare reform and they’re getting nothing at all."

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-myth-of-joe-bidens-electability/

Here's the fifteen minute video on candidate Biden's Electability, as referenced on @120:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQRMGgTFHlU&feature=youtu.be

The question here is whether you think America is broken or not. If you think America's mostly fine and Trump is a weird disease, then Biden's your person. If you think America is deeply sick, then Trump is just a symptom. And Biden is exhibit A of the disease.

In the latter case, the problem is the center. The problem is the Washington consensus. Biden IS the problem. And Biden over Trump is just a short term change in velocity headed in the same direction. After Biden does nothing to change anything, we'll just get another Trump but worse. Just like Trump is worse than Bush and Bush was worse than Reagan/Bush.

Centrist Democrats, we're coming for your party and we're kicking you out. Your days are numbered. Go join up with all those moderate Republicans you love so much we're done with you, and we're not voting for your candidate. And I for one, couldn't care less about how you feel about it.

Centrists, you had your chance to go with Warren, who would be a fine compromise candidate between the wings of the party. You didn't. You went with Biden. Now, lie in your bed of insiderism and corruption and take what you get. Which is losing the progressive vote. I straight up hope you lose to Trump. You've literally told progressives to ef ourselves with that choice. You'll never do shit for us but you expect our vote. Nah, go screw yourselves. Happy to lose this one to let you know that you ignore us at your peril.

@125 counterpoint: Tea Party. They didn't compromise, and they took over. The center is over. America is over it. Oh, we might hate Trump enough to vote for Biden as a nation, but the center is still dead. In 4 or 8 more years, we'll go Republican again. Anyone clinging to the status quo is going to go down with the ship. This is not a time for compromise. This is a time for claiming new spaces as the center sinks.

And for the record... the center is really REALLY far to the right. We are not living in some moderate times. We are living in exceptionally extreme times. Neoliberalism has created income inequality and societal instability that we've never seen in our lifetimes. Advocating for compromise is saying let's all just support the Weimar Republic and things will be fine. No, things will not be fine. The Weimar Republic will not hold. And if you are holding onto it, you will drown while the nation switches from the extreme of Neoliberalism to the extreme of Neofascism. That's what supporting the center gets us. We are in the 1930s all over again, and we're following the 'rise of fascism' script.

Voting for Biden will make you feel good when you fill in the circle. And if he wins you can laud the wisdom of the center. But the center is evil. And not a lesser evil, a complimentary evil that is taking us to the same place, hand-in-hand as Trump. I won't do it.

Bingo, psd.

Yo PSD and Kristofarian... Let's say all us "non progressive" moderates vote Berning Man.. He gets nominated and either get's smoked in the electoral college or wins but Senate stays in the Evil empire, and Congress moves more to the right. How does that shake out.,

The win or die sounds good on a game board where you can hit the reset button. In reality we have family and kids at stake. At best you would have extreme gridlock or worse you have Trumpfukastan Extreme Edition.

It really makes no sense to say Bernie or bust... if Bernie pulls it out we most real Dems will vote for him. This whole thing is not a sprint or marathon, its the Hunger Games.

Voting for Biden doesn't make me feel good..Getting the Orange Menace AND The Evil Tortoise out of office is the only near objective. Nothing can be fixed until that happens.

All the freebies Berning Man is promising wont come to fruition anyway.. so why not devise the best strategy to boot Agent Orange and The tortoise out of office. Then battle out progressive vs pragmatic once we actually have a voice.

"All the freebies Berning Man is
promising wont come to fruition anyway."

That's the Spirit!
Oh, and, how do you KNOW
Bernie won't win over trump?

Oh, that's right --
ya DON'T.

Just like trump didn't
(COULD NOT)
win.

Yet, here we are.

Berning Man v Buh-BYE 'den.
neat.

16 comments total.
So, you're new.

Interesting.

"To be blunt..both in my opinion are a bit like eating stale bread. Not moldy, but would prefer something fresher. None of their analysis is new nor are the solutions really unique or compelling.

For now, gotta keep the eye on the near term ball, getting rid of Adolf and Heinrich is the goal. Can't do anything moderate, progressive or light bending without accomplishing these two daunting tasks."

Tell me something micro -- are you just phoning this in?

Your packaging is quite Polished.

To lazy to count yours Kristo.. my interest is to get Seattle types to realize outside West coast there is some really different world view.. mostly conservative..., can't stomach the idea of what 4 more years of Trump would do to the world, people of color, women, friends, kitds ect..

I aint no ideologue and got no agenda, no political affiliation. Just hate where we are going.
I believe you put your thoughts out theres and be willing to hear/listen. My personal views are more rad than Bernies and definitely Bidens, but I know the peops just arent ready for the change that really need to happen... Einstein, MLK, real spiritual types (not organized types).. get it but world aint ready for the real deal, so gotta take baby steps..

I wanted a female as prez, cuz women see the world differently .. not gonna happen.. so gotta go with one of two old men. Sigh..

PS. never polished my shoes or washed my pickup one time in the 10 years I owned it . LOL

Wow. Your style is quite . . . fluid.

"... but world aint ready for the real deal, so gotta take baby steps.."

Yeah. That's what you keep saying. That's what every Dem running as 'Centrist' in the last twenty years said, too. Nearly verbatim.
And
they.
all.
Lost.

Let's go back to @130 -- "All the freebies Berning Man is
promising wont come to fruition anyway."

Oh, and, how do you KNOW
Bernie won't win over trump?

Oh, that's right --
ya DON'T.

Just like trump didn't
(COULD NOT)
win.

Yet, here we are.

Tell me how it is you happen to Know this, wouldja, micro?
There's lots of polls, backing you up on this?
Thanks.

"Centrists are the majority middle." --rainy

Independents are The Majority.
Bernie's an Independent.
Too!

I dont claim to know whether Bernie v Trump or Biden v Trump will win.. my time machine in the backyard has been malfunctioning. I do know from simple observation of earthlings, that they resist change and do things that aren't often to there long term best interest. Polls are for pundit trolls. The electorate which seems bi-polar, actually only really oscillates from center left to center right.. In a democracy.. the majority rules, kinda. this is why there is no real action on climate, healthcare, ect... To get anything done of any disruptive substance (technical, political, intellectual) you gotta just do your thing underground, present it to the masses, and see if there is any uptake. Earthlings dont wants to see sausages being made, (whether vegan or meat)..:)

If Berning man has the political juice to change the flight path, I'm on board. Unfortunately, history hasn't shown that this to work, particularly in the US. Lots of flameouts.. I'm totally happy to be wrong, as long as the outcome isn't Agent Orange and the Tortoise.

Movements don’t always vote for change. Labor, antiwar, civil rights etc. Abolitionists didn’t wait to vote against slavery. These started small. Later they became real.

We don’t need neoliberalism and any more sell outs. Vote Bernie if you care about human rights..
Many will not vote for anyone else.

Movements stopped the war in Vietnam, brought us social security, civil rights, stopped child labor to name a few, These were not flameouts. Deal with the rot and slime in the democratic party. Universal Health Care is a basic human right and the Bernie people and others will fight for it. Stop appeasing the right wing.

Its too late to take crumbs and we are not cannon fodder. Trump can be taken down and movements can do it.

Three people have half the wealth of the country. This must be stopped. Our prisons are crowded with poor people because of the culture for wealth privilege with the deeply racist and classist policies. This is a plutocracy . Our bombs which we pay for cause murder and misery without our vote without the concern for how to pay for it. This is like the Roman Empire with an ego driven idiot that thinks he is a Caesar. It all went downhill for Rome when it got crushed from those inside the empire and the barbarians on the outside. The slide took time with many costly decisions. And the U.S. could in many ways be compared to ancient Rome.

The slide to fascism is real and the time is now to stand up against it. Choose your side. I would NEVER settle for a neoliberal and a lesser evil. Its leading to the same end results to further build up the race towards corporate authority and its fascism. Grassroots movements can change this course. To begin with vote for Bernie.

Biden voted for the Iraq war Bernie voted against it. Biden voted for the war on drugs which filled the prisons. He has done everything he could to finance the wealthy corporations.

Bernie marched with MLK against poverty and for civil rights. Biden never did. Biden made deals in the Ukraine to enrich his family with nothing for the ordinary people here. Vote for Bernie.

Children in cages and that is the status quo right now.

I would much prefer a Biden/Warren winning ticket.

Bernie and ardent supporters real challenge like many before him is critical mass and momentum. To overcome the existing geopolitical physics you gotta to have a much more reliable base and a firmer foundation that isn't RELIANT on the subjugators and its systems(monetary,health, intenet, ect... The infrastructure isn't there yet. Like a broken record.. civil rights, women's suffrage, LGBTQ all have been incremental not because of pandering but because of the phenomenal resistance and hurdles thrown in their path by the power structure. REAL Social change is accomplished block by block, city by city.

Yo Garby...we "moderates" actually got your back (cuz its really all of our backs!!). Keep pushing the progressive agenda at all levels not just prez. Primary voters will vote as they see fit. but the platform will have to embrace progressive action if going to oust Trump/McConnell.

Biden is revealing the symptoms of dementia and out of common decency should be sent home to retire. Looks like a desperate and cruel measure by the democratic party. So what/who has the DNC decided to replace him? Shudder the thought. Also voting for the lesser evil empowers the corrupt democratic party. Scream if you want to.

Also the polls have closed early in many areas and people have had to wait for hours to vote. This is inexcusable and as many have stated - the fix is in. But Bernie could still win.

Sherp I agree with your "REAL social change is accomplished block by block and city by city”.
Its already started. Thank you.

145 Do you not know that Biden is corrupt, has a history of corruption and is suffering from dementia? Please - can you snap out of it-?

102 Centrists are selfish cowards and will not stand up for the common people because they love the status quo. Or if they want the status quo challenged they want the workers and poor people to do it for them. They need others to sacrifice for the common good. Pick a side. If you are for the oppressed then make a stand. Otherwise have the honesty to admit that you are selfish and couldn’t give a damn about the working class and poor people.

Many centrists have benefited from the work activists have done but they didn’t do the work so they are leeches.