Her Boyfriend Is Too Busy Masturbating With His Secret Box of Boobs to Have Sex With Her

Comments

1

What’s going to be the Hashtag? I’m not good at this. #CoronaDivorce #LockdownBreakup #LockdownFreedom

2

CLOSE- you were very very accommodating and reached out to him each and every step. There should be no guilt on your side, if anything you are a super GGG person.
BF should have been so appreciative yet nothing but a huge thankless, selfish asshole. You deserve better.

3

CLOSE, I'm so sorry that you're locked down and can't separate now. It makes sense to me that you would want to wait to breakup so you don't have to remain trapped with him after the breakup.

4

yeah, that doesn't count as working order.

5

Well at least now he's recognizing his issues and talking about it and there's no expectation of sex anymore. Instead, they can cultivate their friendship during the lock down.

6

I dunno, raindrop old bean.

CLOSE is basically waiting until a break in the coronapocalypse to let him know it's over. (You caught that, right?)

So until then she'll effectively be 'acting' (as though it isn't over; but it is).

That sounds to me like a situation loaded with complication for her were she to take your advice and "cultivate their friendship", because there's a shoe ready to drop after which standard breakup procedure is to maintain distance for a significant period. In other words, your advice seems to me poised to cause her pain when she loses what they have PLUS what you suggest she now build.

And in the meantime isn't it gonna be easier for her to 'act' as though it isn't over if she doesn't try to get closer? How great of an actress should we call upon her to be?

7

"The most charitable read is that your boyfriend is a very complicated straightish guy who has neglected you out of DISINTEREST in partnered sex generally"

That should be "...out of A LACK OF INTEREST in partnered..."

"Disinterested" means impartial, or not personally invested in an outcome. An example of a disinterested party would be a courtroom judge or a referee in an athletic competition.

8

@6: CLOSE wrote to Dan:

'"I do agree with you, I have discussed this with him and he is depressed, ashamed, and "lost.""

Sounds like it's pretty much all out in the open at this point.

9

Good you and Dan have sorted this, CLOSE.
Also good your bf has started talking about his fetish with you. Maybe during lock up he can look on line for other men who enjoy similar fetishes and find a way out or thru his “ lost ‘ feelings. He has nothing to be ashamed of and now he can share with you he may start to feel more ok in his own skin. Good luck to both of you.

10

I’m not suggesting you have to resolve his dilemma, CLOSE, that’s his work to do. He sounds like he needs to see a sex positive therapist at some point. For now, suggest he with others on line who have gone thru similar feelings about their fetishes/ kinks, and come out the other side, accepting and enjoying who they are. He needs to acknowledge first to himself, then he’ll know what he can offer to others. For you, as raindrop @5 suggests, be his friend. Sounds like he needs one.

11

“...suggest he connect with others.. “

12

@8 raindrop
Er, perhaps. She was unspecific with:

"I will have to hold on until I am able to separate ties officially."

But I think you're wrong, because it's crazy to break up with someone you're trapped with until you get rescued. So if you're correct raindrop, they CLOSE is crazy. But I'm thinking it's you that didn't think of this.

13

@7 From Oxford Dict Definition 2: Disinterest - lack of interest in something. Example - "he chided Dennis for his disinterest in anything that is not his own idea"

Disinterest is fine; your alternative is also fine.

14

@7: THANK YOU, Fred Cassely.

15

The US' line on this chart is even worse than Italy:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/21/upshot/coronavirus-deaths-by-country.html

16

Curious @6, one for the record books, I agree with Raindrop @5. CLOSE says "Unfortunately, due to the virus I am stuck in my situation until the lock down ends. So, I will have to hold on until I am able to separate ties officially." She refers at the beginning to "our apartment," so I would interpret "separate ties officially" as "give notice to the landlord that I'm moving out, and his name will remain on the lease." This can be done as an official ex-couple. I don't think CLOSE should continue pretending for the duration. They haven't had sex in a year and a half; they already are nothing more than friends and roommates, are they not? She can support him in fighting off depression and finding professional help (therapy via Skype is a thing) while being true to her own needs and feelings.

Curious @12, what's crazy is pretending to be in a relationship with someone because artificial restrictions mean you need to share space. We've discussed at length that your view that literally nothing is worse than living with an ex is just your view. I agree with Raindrop, everything is now out in the open. They both know the relationship is over. CLOSE isn't crazy for accepting that she needs to make it official.

17

I like the wording of “I confronted him in the most supportive way.” I’ll have to remember that one.

18

@16 BiDanFan
"your view that literally nothing is worse than living with an ex"

I believe that exaggerated my stated view.

"just your view"

By that are you suggesting it's not the majority view? I think yours is the view of a small minority. I think mine is the view most people have because it works best for most people.

19

Yesterday the Mississippi Governor overturned all state and local measures to prevent COVID-19's spread, and declared most businesses "essential", sending his state's people back to work and out of shelter-in-place.
jacksonfreepress.com/news/2020/mar/24/gov-tate-reeves-orders-limited-gatherings-today-ex/

because "Mississippi's Never Going to Be China"
jacksonfreepress.com/news/2020/mar/23/governor-rejects-state-lockdown-covid-19-mississip/

It seems to me that all US states would be crazy not to close their borders and airports to Mississippi residents.  I've contacted my state's leadership.

20

Curious @18, I think you misunderstand my view. I think the majority view is that living with an ex is to be avoided if possible. I agree with that view. However, my view is that there can be exceptions; that living with an ex is not ALWAYS, by definition, worse than any other alternative. You asserted that it is. If that view is exaggerated, you're the one who exaggerated it. If I have some spare time today I'll go back and find those comments, and we can see whether your words support my impression of your view as being as absolute as I've portrayed it here.

21

Aha! That didn't take long at all.
https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2019/11/27/42116323/she-left-her-husband-but-still-lives-with-him-so-does-she-have-to-remain-celibate/comments
@32-@33: "Move the fuck out. Wherever you move to will be better than living there.
"And by wherever I mean wherever in the world. Deal with whatever moving means. Just do."

No exaggeration needed there.

@44: "I think that cohabiting after breaking up is USUALLY doomed to be exponentially worse than moving, so it's a stock soapbox of mine." (Emphasis added.) OK, so there is the language that in theory allows for exceptions. But you argued very strongly against an LW who literally stated she couldn't afford to move out, meaning you immediately wrote her off as being a potential exception, which indicated that you don't really believe in exceptions. Sure, few people want to live with an ex; I guess I just see more potential than you can for this to be preferable to an even worse alternative, such as having to pretend you still love someone for an unspecifiable number of weeks or months. Scylla vs Charybdis, for sure. Personally, as you say, I don't think I would be capable of such convincing acting. This LW's mileage may vary.

22

@20 BiDanFan
"to be avoided if possible"

On that we agree.

I'd do PRETTY MUCH anything to avoid living with an ex, but I can't imagine I would have said "always" non-hyperbolically.

If my choice were to live with an ex or to have the world end (or be shot by a hit man, etc.), I'd live with an ex.

But maybe I'm splitting hairs to say that your

"your view that literally nothing is worse than living with an ex" @16

was kinda loaded. Maybe you just meant what I said above (that "I'd do pretty much anything to avoid"). And the reason this debate lingers, is that I think that's the correct /advice/ for the great majority of people, because if they don't take it they will unhappily regret that.

@21 BiDanFan
Sorry to put you to that trouble. I think that was good advice I gave.

"who literally stated she couldn't afford to move out"

I'm sure you will find I explained I didn't accept the truth of that statement. In other words I think that statement would generally be spoken shortsightedly by someone inadequately motivated by the downsides of remaining, to find a place because they didn't want to live someplace that wasn't as appealing to them, or perhaps even to endure the effort of moving. I'm sure you'll recall us sharing our stories of living in shitholes.

But please, we already debated this. You can now say if you like that I said that "literally nothing is worse than living with an ex", I just feel that that characterization of my position was ungenerously hyperbolic.

23

Curious @22, given the comments I quoted, I think you will see that I was not being "ungenerously hyperbolic" in characterising your view. (Why would I be "ungenerous" toward you?) You admit that this is a soapbox of yours. We all have them, and if you are going to use absolutist language the way you did, you can't blame someone else for recalling it in those terms. You have a very strong bias against living with an ex even if alternatives are decidedly substandard; is that fair to say? Ie, most people would have a far lower bar than yours for living with an ex. I mean, even using language like "have the world end, be shot by a hit man, etc." is pretty hyperbolic, is it not? Anyway, I'll cop to misuse of the word literally, so we can move on.

24

@23 BiDanFan
I'm just being argumentative, sorry. It's just that I wouldn't say

""nothing is worse"

I would say "almost nothing is worse".

"most people would have a far lower bar than yours"

I wouldn't say "far lower". I think many would choose to tolerate post-breakup cohabitation longer than me, but (hence my feeling strongly it's the proper advice to be given) I think most people would be happier if their willingness to tolerate post-breakup cohabitation were exactly the same as mine. In other words, the reason I was so forceful, and there was so much extreme language from me in those prior threads, was that I was trying to get them to not make a mistake. I'm sure I got overly dramatic/hyperbolic about it, but I thought doing so might help persuade someone to make a better choice.

"even if alternatives are decidedly substandard"

Well, thankfully I had a friends sofa to immediately go to (though I told the tale of the insane cats making it a living hell, at least it wasn't an /emotional/ hell like every moment with my ex was). I wouldn't want to be homeless, or to live somewhere with disease or dangerous drinking water. But for what I was paying there I wouldn't've had to, and I live in a very uncommonly tight rental market. There are areas around here I wouldn't feel safe if weren't a guy; rental searches are so challenging here I considered living in such places, but thankfully didn't.

But let's say the LW has zero friends. Even then there would, around here, be options for avoiding sleeping on the street. I would take one of those options.

But let's say there are no options. I would still hear the advice I gave as being well-intended, even if I were in such a very unlikely situation that couldn't take it. (Oh, and IIRC the LW didn't have the situation dropped on her as a surprise, so she had time to strategize. Oh, and maybe I'm remembering this wrong, but I think another thing that fueled my advice was that she was the one doing the breaking up, which I think brings an immense responsibility to the other party's emotional well-being to get the hell out of there; IIRC I suspected she was inadequately motivated by that the emotional trauma would be her ex's and not hers.)

25

Curious @24, I think we are all tetchy due to the current situation and coming across as more argumentative than we really feel about the topic. I know I am, so please forgive me for any unintentional combativeness in my tone.

"I think most people would be happier if their willingness to tolerate post-breakup cohabitation were exactly the same as mine." That's an odd and somewhat hubristic way of looking at things, don't you think? Surely everyone who breaks up with their cohabitant does their own cost-benefit analysis of their own options, which includes how amicable the breakup was, how comfortable the existing arrangement is, and how suitable the alternatives are. Your blanket view that no one should tolerate post-breakup cohabitation unless the alternative is actual apocalypse does not seem to acknowledge the fact of these cost-benefit analyses, or individuals' capability for performing them. (Would my ex, or I, have been "happier" if I had thrown him, immediately, unemployed, out into the street? I think the answer is no.)

"I was trying to get them to not make a mistake." But it's only your opinion that it would be a mistake. Without knowing how amicable the breakup was, etc, you can't definitively state that living together until a comfortable move-out is possible would be a mistake.

"I would still hear the advice I gave as being well-intended." I have no doubt of that. Your view is absolutist but it's genuine. In no way do I think it came from a place of wanting LW to suffer for your principles, but you don't seem to see that this might in fact be the result of taking your advice.

"I think another thing that fueled my advice was that she was the one doing the breaking up, which I think brings an immense responsibility to the other party's emotional well-being to get the hell out of there." This is reasonable, but again, some breakups are more mutual and amicable than others; some dumpees would not be traumatised by the continued presence of an ex who had their own room and continued paying rent and bills, etc. I will meet you halfway and say a dumper should be willing to leave if the dumpee requests it, but in some cases it might be better for both parties to wait out a few months of a lease, etc. (Also, not all breakups are planned. Let's say you learn, completely out of the blue, that your partner has betrayed you in some horrific way. You're the stay-at-home parent, or temporarily unemployed, or otherwise lack a steady income. What do you do -- not dump them? Make yourself homeless? Can you see the issue with a blanket obligation to move out here?)

And I'll accept that while I'm writing these comments, I'm comparing my own bias against dating people one works with, and how easily I seem to be able to see nuance in a living-with-an-ex scenario versus how impossible that is for me when I think about dating a co-worker, which I'm sure turns out better than I fear in probably around the same number of cases as living with an ex turns out better than you fear. I'm trying to reconcile the difference, and I guess it's that dating someone you work with seems far more easy to avoid than breaking up with someone you live with. One can easily choose not to get involved with a co-worker, and if the feelings are sufficiently strong one of you can look for a new job in order to avoid that (in my opinion) mistake. But delaying a breakup seems dishonest and unhealthy to me. I would much rather a breakup happen when it's known to be necessary and/or inevitable than for someone to fake a relationship while searching real estate ads. That seems like the worse of the evils to me.

26

@25 BiDanFan
"odd and somewhat hubristic...it's only your opinion that it would be a mistake"

True, but this is advice-land, and sometimes needed advice is gonna sound opinion-y.

"Would my ex, or I, have been "happier" if I had thrown him, immediately, unemployed, out into the street?"

If I thought the LW had been the slightest bit like you I'd have given your advice instead of mine. In my estimation you have a very high degree of emotional skill and maturity. Throughout our debate I've wondered if you fully appreciate how rare that is. Most people are emotionally pretty fragile and insecure. You, OTOH, unlike most people are evolved enough to have become poly (yes I know, since that breakup, I mean become poly ever).

"Without knowing how amicable the breakup was"

If you said I didn't know, I'll believe you since life here is too crazy for me now to go reviewing previous threads. But if I gave that advice without knowing that, it must have been something else about the LW that made me question her.

/Break/
Please don't think that just because I'm not including responses to all the other insightful and thoughtful things you wrote, doesn't mean I didn't love and find very interesting reading them. Oh, and I've got (what's commonly known as, but isn't exactly) carpal tunnel, and the new social isolation-world is calling for way more typing than my hands can bear so I must resist a bit.

Oh, I delayed delivering a breakup for 3 days once for an incredibly good reason, but I agree, delaying until COVID-19 is resolved one of these years or whatever boggles the imagination.

27

After reading "with his secret box of boobs" in this column's priceless headline, there was just no way the actual letter could top it.

28

Curious @26, thanks for indulging this conversation yet again. I admit one of my purposes in all this analysis is to consider that I myself would say the exact same things you're saying about dating coworkers, so why am I being "reasonable" when you're being "unreasonable"? It may be that it's easy to be absolutist without experience -- think of teenagers' attitudes -- and as I've always stuck to my "don't shit where you eat" rule, which admittedly hasn't been difficult because I've never had a strong attraction to a coworker, but not the also sensible "exes should move out as soon as they can" rule, I've never put the former to the test and discovered it may not be a recipe for disaster in 100% of cases.

Sorry about your carpal tunnel, that's rotten. Are there talk-to-type apps that might help?

As for why you didn't accept that LW's word that she couldn't afford to move out, I admit she did come across as self-centered. However, I tend to give LWs who have good reason to be angry or bitter the benefit of the doubt. Her self-interest came across as a current mood to me, rather than a character trait. And to me, if she couldn't afford to move out, and he wasn't pushing her to, there was no reason in my mind to override the idea that the two could coexist as roommates so long as they didn't shove their lovers in each other's faces.

"Secret box of boobs" is indeed a classic!

30

@28 BiDanFan
On the plus side, a variety of takes multiplies the chances a letter write gets the take that helps them.

There is excellent voice recognition software (Dragon Naturally Speaking), but my newest computer is so old that it doesn't have the resources to use it. I occasionally use voicenotebook.com when I /plan/ to type for a while, but that's difficult to anticipate, my limits are different every day, and that that cloud solution is no DNS. Anyway, it is a big motivation for me to be concise.