News May 1, 2020 at 11:00 am

Some say it's a salve for the COVID-19 economic crisis. Others say it will further destroy the economy.

Comments

2

Answer: No, it does not.

Seattle already twice the budget of similarly sized Boston. Nobody seems to want to address that elephant in the room.

Note the City: Spend what you have more wisely

3

A payroll tax is much better than a head tax. It is a lot less regressive. But it isn't flat, let alone progressive. It only applies to some companies, which sounds good (tax Amazon!) but the rules are based on gross income, not profits. That means that a small, extremely profitable company (such as a high end consulting firm) doesn't get taxed at all, while a large firm that is barely breaking even does. Worse yet, it gives an incentive for companies to cut payroll, which is another way of saying lay people off.

This is better than the previous tax, and I applaud those for trying to shine up this turd. But a flat income tax makes so much more sense. The state constitution bans progressive income taxes (which sucks). But it doesn't ban flat income taxes. While flat income taxes are bad, they aren't as bad as most other taxes -- including this one. Someone making 200 grand a year pays ten times what someone making 20 grand a year makes. More importantly, every person making 200 grand a year pays tax -- you can't say that about this tax.

If this passes, you can expect large corporations (e. g. Amazon) to find a way around it. They will create small, "independent" firms, made-up of highly paid individuals. They won't pay this tax, nor will the company that technically no longer employs them. Yet they will be employees, just as the person who drives an Uber car works for Uber, no matter what Uber says.

Just pass a flat income tax. At worst you lose a court challenge. If you win, follow it up with a capital gains tax (where the real money is -- ask Cary Moon). If you lose, then, well, pass some piece of shit like this, or just bump up the same shitty taxes we've had for years. Not much difference, really. The main argument for this tax is simply that the local government needs a lot of money. Yeah, no shit.

4

3

Why does the local govt need more money? That’s question that needs to be asked. If other cities are successfully getting by with half the budget seattle has, you have to ask yourself wtf is wrong with seattle govt.

6

Oddly this reality involves having one thing go both ways. Either, Amazon is the 'enemy' of our Activist City Council (non-politician) member Sawant, or it is the object of reference for "how things ought to be".
You (she) can't have both heads AND tails (obverse AND reverse) on a single side of a coin. That being said, you can 'call it' by saying, "Heads we win, Tails you lose." A nice sound-bite or protest slogan, but NOT a decent way to reliably fund government.
This article references Amazon's HQ2 search... "Amazon chose to settle in two of the highest taxed states in the country." In their home state, they paid ZERO tax on $11.2 $B in profits, and in HQ2 State offered them a 1.2 $B in tax CREDIT. They are either the paragon of how taxes ought to fund state coffers, or they are scofflaws or...the actual Politicians gave them the sweetheart deal of the millennium, and they are riding it, until it breaks.
I am mystified at how this is a demonstration of reallocating monies with the expressed intent of directly paying the 'poor' for their inconvenience. One thing to consider is, after legislation gets passed, the legislators' opponents (the businesses, their accountants, and the people) each get a turn, or two, or three.
The 800 companies targeted specifically may go Uber-style, hiring sub-contractors forgoing employees or offering compensation as something other than wages to slide under any legislated threshold. And many border-income individuals in our bordering states may suddenly relocate here in more affordable RVs.
Just because 'there is money out there', does not mean the government is entitled to it. This City Council needs to get a better grip on reality, and start leading like they deserve to be re-elected.

7

@2:

Boston's fiscal budget is NOT half of Seattle's - it's almost exactly the same as ours when you combine their $3.5B operating budget AND $3B capital plan, both of which are traditionally rolled into our comprehensive city budget.

https://www.boston.gov/news/mayor-walsh-proposes-fiscally-responsible-operating-budget-and-capital-plan

8

Here are some numbers to consider:

4 cities with closest population sizes to Seattle:

Charlotte
Pop: 872,000 Budget: 2.6 billion

Indianapolis
Pop: 867,000 Budget: $1.2 Billion

Seattle
Pop: 744,000 Budget: $5.9 billion

Denver
Pop: 716,000 Budget: 1.46 billion

Boston
Pop: 694,000 Budget: 3.49 billion

Now - lets look at it another way...
take Seattle's population and double it -lets see what we get:

Dallas
Pop: 1,345,000 Budget: $3.8 billion

San Diego
Pop: 1,425,000 Budget: $3.9 billion

San Antonio
Pop: 1.532,000 Budget: $2.8 billion

Philadelphia
Pop: 1,584,000 Budget: $5 billion

So - whats wrong with this picture???

Instead of asking tax payers and businesses to cough up more money - the real question what the hell has been going on with the leadership of Seattle? THATS what needs to asked and examined.

9

What we do know is that large corporations such as Amazon don't pay any taxes on their immense profits and wealth. We know the workers pay taxes on their incomes, purchases and homes etc.. We do know that Amazon for example also receives huge government refunds even though they don’t need it. One person with 60 billion dollars who is causing workers to die on the job in their warehouses doesn’t deserve any breaks from the ordinary people in this city.

Amazon has helped cause homelessness and increased poverty and collapsed small businesses. It is a detriment to the quality of life to the many while its wealth is hoarded and is not contributing to services in this city and elsewhere.

The very wealthy are being asked to pay their fair share. That is what is being asked. Looting the taxpayers who include the poor, working people and others with middle incomes to cover all the services needed during the pan endemic and desperate times is robbery. The poor pay the largest percentage of their income in taxes than any other group in this state and city.

For far too long we have been carrying the burden for these super rich leeches and it has to come to a stop.

Much of the problem with the city is the corrupt mayor and her compatriots that are working for the wealthy against the poor and working people here. Also a ridiculous bureaucracy which blocks services and communications and the mayor is paid a huge salary to stab over policed poor people in the back and spend millions throwing them into the streets with little or no help. People are not blind and the expensive public relations programs by the super wealthy will not hide that knowledge.

10

@4 The government needs more money because we are in a recession/depression.
@5 An income tax was rejected statewide, but supported overwhelmingly in Seattle.
@8 The relationship between city governments and state governments is complex. Some states fund a lot, some states fund very little, and leave the city to fund the rest.
@9 This tax wouldn't ask the very wealthy to pay anything. It would be a tax on workers, not owners. Some workers earn a lot, but nothing compared to owners. The only way to tax owners to pay a lot is to tax wealth (Elizabeth Warren style) or tax capital gains (like a lot of states). Either one would be great, and a lot better than this piece of shit tax, even if this tax is better than nothing (and better than the previous proposal).

11

This tax is on the company not the workers. A tax targeting capital gains is also very good. The point is that these companies/owners need to divvy up finally to stop the bleeding at the bottom.

The other more radical solution would be the takeover by the workers.

13

@12- not sure many companies are looking for an ex-junkie to lead them.

14

As soon as Sawant moves from her comfortable house into Workers Collective Dormitory Number 2, I'll consider it.

15

Anyone should be proud to be an EX junkie it beats being a CEO job that I have no desire being. Since I am an anti authoritarian I prefer to be one of the people.

I am a recovered alcoholic to get that straight. I am not a capitalist junkie or a money junkie.

Everyone needs to have a comfortable home if that is what they desire.

I knew that you little fascists would dump on me for daring to address inequity and I welcome it.

Come on bring it on. You do realize that it is very unhealthy mentally to be a selfish asshole and that you were even taught in kindergarten to SHARE. Your mothers still haven’t cut you off from your internet privileges because you are naughty children and abusing this comment section.
How immature.

16

Power to the people which include ex junkies who are still ALIVE. They had the courage to get through it and start their lives again.

17

@8. Seattle’s budget includes Seattle City Light and Seattle Public Utilities. That’s not common in other cities. And it’s about 1/2 the budget. Need to remove those to compare to other city budgets.

19

This tax is a pittance for Amazon and other huge companies to pay to help rectify the fact that they pay NOTHING in federal taxes while workers are hit up pay check to pay check. And the vast services they get from being in this city.

Help is needed desperately for all those people that are suffering now. This is asking very little from the incredible fortunes from the few. But how they scream.

20

@19: Until COVID-19, nobody was really suffering. Best unemployment rate in years. Great purchasing power, strong dollar, low interest rates.

But I can see you need the drama to try and make people think you know what you're talking about.

21

@3 - It's long past time that we started calling bullshit on the "independent contractor" game. Uber is nothing but the mother of all tax avoidance scams. How much has the government had to come up with to provide "unemployment" benefits for their workforce (which should have been paid by the employer-who-will-not-admit-that is-what-it-is). I'd also note that they can't even make money after weaseling out of paying their taxes. Maybe something wrong with the business model? But there are lots of others playing this game too. It needs to end. If you have employees, they're employees. Period.

22

“ I am not a capitalist junkie or a money junkie.”

Well you are, it’s just other peoples’ money you want.

24

10, 17.

You may or may not be right. Simply making a statement does not make it true.

Provide some data that compares the budget breakdowns of Seattle and the other cities listed. Sorry, but I am just not buying it. The ineptitude of the leadership if the city of seattle goes further than just budgetary, so its not exactly like it has a great track record.

25

20 and 22 I use my real name on these comments so if you really want to get down on me or what I say have the decency to USE YOUR REAL NAMES. Because I’m not hiding and I am using facts.
22 What other peoples money are you talking about? I’m talking about huge corporations that don’t pay taxes. When everyone else does. SO USE YOUR REAL NAME asshole.
Raindrop - I don’t know what bubble you live in but PROVE that nobody was really suffering before COVID 19.
Tell all the homeless and the people that had to work 2 or 3 jobs just to pay the bills not to mention the wars caused by GREED etc.........that everything was just fine until covid 19.

26

Its cowardly to trash people and what they say without having the decency to come out of hiding. Is the truth so threatening? Looks like it is.

28

"huge corporations that don’t pay taxes"

I'm assuming you don't know about tax loss carryforward laws (sometimes called net operating loss) that have been part of the tax code since the 1920s I believe?


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