Comments

1

I liked how the LW doesn't suspect some, or more, of the women he previously dated were faking it. We meet can be very obtuse.

2

"The letter from Come Are You Are was originally published on May 15, 2015. The response from Concentrating On My Euphoria was originally published on May 27, 2015."
And the divorce was Dec 1 2015.....
Just a guess.

3

Don't the majority of men also close their eyes when they orgasm?? LOL

(Obviously there's more going on here, but Dan already addressed that ;))

4

I sure as heck hope that couple has, in the meantime, acquired a hitachi magic wand (or whatever it's called now).

5

@3, sure at the moment of, but L.W. wrote: "When she's working toward an orgasm, her eyes are shut" Speaking just for myself, looking into a woman's eyes makes "working toward" better for me (better, but not essential). But I'm not vain or needy enough to think the same applies to my partner.
Besides, it can be somewhat difficult to look into someone's eyes when one's face is buried in their crotch, so I'd hope eye contact is optional for my partner.

It sounds to me like LW is just a jerk.

6

The LW feels like he was lied to. Before getting married, he explained that he wanted to "explore and push the boundaries," and she "promised" that would happen. But then he found that "she has no fantasies, kinks, or fetishes," and she wasn't into any of the things he proposed.

This is unfortunately not an uncommon sequence of events. One person has certain sexual interests going into a marriage or relationship, whether they be anal, or kink, or poly, or what have you. And the other person says, yes, we can try those in the future. But the secret inner conversations are different. The first person is thinking, oh yay, we can do all the things I've always wanted. And the second person is thinking, I'll try, but we'll stop if I don't like them. Or less charitably, they are making the promise without really thinking about the implications.

What the LW here discovered is that these sort of future sexual promissory notes can't be cashed in. People cannot and should not be held to sexual promises they made in the past--that's the essence of body autonomy. Partners get to change their minds, without the need for explanation or justification, about what they are willing to do in bed.

Now I'm going to speak, not to the LW (who is long down the road), but to people like the LW, who have sexual interests that are important to them. First, don't shy away from making the importance of those interests clear to your partner before getting married or even moving in. That's not easy, but it's a key piece of information for your partner to know before making a commitment. Second, try things out early, before commitment or marriage. You'll get a better sense if you are sexually compatible or not. A word to the wise.

7

Moral of the story, if she won’t let you bring a sheep to bed before you get married, forget about “getting a little wool” after the nuptials. Find that shit out BEFORE you enter a legally binding arrangement.

8

@3/KindnessIsKey: Sometimes, because focusing on the pleasurable physical sensations is heightened without visual input, but my partners all like knowing the moment my orgasm is happening in their vagina, and looking them in the eye in that moment is really erotic.

9

I was reminded of this controversy the other night. We were tired -- he had fallen asleep on the couch -- so we just went to bed. Lights out. Pitch dark. Yet once we got into bed, he woke up enough for sex. Pitch dark -and I was STILL closing my eyes-. When I noticed this, I tried to keep them open and it just didn't work. So it seems it has nothing to do with blocking out visuals. It's as involuntary as moaning. Now we know!

10

l-dub,your wife isn't a good sexual partner for you which totally sucks, and she lied to you about it which totally sucks more, but none of that has anything to do with how she comes.

11

The folks saying that the LW's wife falsified sexual content before marriage may well be right... but I feel like I'm also catching a whiff of kink snobbery in him. The partner who's so fixated on getting to edgy play that he or she fails to put accepting and enthusiastic attention into the basics of how a partner's sexuality works... is a cliche for a reason. And nothing makes a person less inclined to explore then regular sex with THAT person, because why reward someone who is already telling you indirectly that you're doing it wrong?

12

Oh, and just to contribute to the unofficial survey about eyes open/eyes closed and female orgasm, It's not uncommon for me to make a a choice between coming and paying full attention to something incredibly hot that's happening at the time. They're not always impossible to combine, but it does happen occasionally.

13

@11 I didn't say that LW's wife falsified sexual content. The LW, like other folks in that situation, probably heard what he wanted to hear.

And yes, the eyes open/closed is a red herring

14

I went back and looked at what we all wrote the first time around. For the most part, I still agree with what I wrote then, so I'm using it again. But last time around I could still use html commands to italicize:

The original letter:
"My wife is one of those women who need manual stimulation of her clit during sex to climax. Before meeting her, I had several long-term girlfriends, and not one needed to do this in order to climax. Before we got married, I explained that I wanted to explore and push the boundaries, and she promised me that would happen. But she has no fantasies, kinks, or fetishes, and she's not into any of the things I've proposed. Bringing this all together is that when we are having sex, she's so fixated on stimulating her clit, it's almost like we are in two different worlds. When she's working toward an orgasm, her eyes are shut and she's concentrating on the rubbing—whether she's doing it or I am—and I can't help but wonder if the work it takes to get her to orgasm is part of the reason she's not interested in exploring. I've talked to her several times about how I'm yearning to do more, but I haven't brought up my thoughts on how the way she comes may be affecting things."

CAYA is conflating three issues that should be teased apart: his wife doesn’t come the way he wants her to, she seems not to have any “fantasies, kinks, or fetishes,” and she is reluctant or unwilling to change up what he feels is a stale routine in their sex life by introducing certain acts or whatever it is he defines as pushing boundaries.

So let’s start with the first issue: that CAYA’s wife doesn’t come the way he wants her to, which actually breaks into more than one component: (1) He wants her to come through PIV sex alone (all his previous girlfriends seemed to be able to climax hands-free). (2) She seems to turn inward more than he’d like, focusing on the stimulation she needs to climax and closing her eyes. (3) He thinks that the fact that it is an effort for her to orgasm is what might be keeping her from being more experimental with the sex they have.

I have to agree with Dan that it’s suspicious that none or CAYA’s prior girlfriends needed anything more than his penis in their vaginas to orgasm. If he’d had only one that was able to come that way, that’s one thing, but given that all of them were able to come from PIV alone is too much of a coincidence. Given his attitude that his wife is somehow doing sex-and-orgasm wrong because she needs digital stimulation, I can imagine that those earlier girlfriends felt pressure to give him what he wanted and realizing it wasn’t going to happen for them anyway, just faked it. CAYA, one way of looking at it is that while you can never be sure that your previous girlfriends were actually orgasming, you know beyond a doubt that when you have sex with your wife, she ends up satisfied. Either your fingers and her thoughts or her fingers and her thoughts are bringing her to orgasm. That’s great.

For what it’s worth, up until recently I needed to go really inward and focus on my own thoughts--I didn’t mind sharing them with my partner in theory, but in reality, in the moment, it takes too much energy and moves the focus away too much to start to articulate the thoughts as I get closer to orgasm. Sometimes in the earlier phase of a relationship, before we really knew each other’s responses and had developed our own patterns, I had to actively shut my partner and what he was doing out of my mind if I wanted to come, not because I wasn’t attracted to him, because I really was, but because even hearing him say things that weren’t part of my fantasy could throw me off. My orgasms were sometimes elusive and took a lot of work—and if I was interrupted in a variety of different ways as I neared the approach, everything risked being thrown off. Happily, I was fortunate enough to have been with several partners who didn’t take it personally, who realized their contribution to my pleasure and orgasm was significant and substantial, even if it was my fingers or my hand holding the vibrator, and who found my orgasms arousing. As we got more comfortable with each other and more in sync, I was able to keep my mind more with the man himself and what he was doing, which was great. But until quite recently, I couldn’t come from PIV alone, and until several years ago, I needed to go into a more inward mental state to get all the way to climax. Most of the time, my eyes were/are closed at orgasm. Sometimes it’s part of the way I focus on the mental state I need(ed) to be in, blocking out distracting even if not unwelcome sights; sometimes it just helps intensify the physical sensations; sometimes it’s involuntary.

But really, CAYA, this is how her body works. She might be unable to come any other way (at least for now); she might be unable to keep her eyes open at the moment of orgasm. So the question you have to ask yourself is do you care more about her genuine pleasure or do you care more that she conform to whatever it is that you think her pleasure should look like?

As far as the other issues go, there is no reason to assume that because she doesn’t orgasm on demand from PIV she is unwilling to explore more boundary-crossing activities. If indeed she isn’t willing or enthusiastic about exploring less vanilla acts or using more unusual props it likely has nothing to do with the way she ultimately comes. And she really may not have any fantasies, kinks, or fetishes. Or not any that she’s willing to share with you yet (she may be embarrassed). Or she may not have any yet, but that doesn’t mean that someday she won’t. I’ve found that some women, me included, didn’t have any fantasies, kinks, or fetishes when we were younger and we’ve kind of grown into them in middle age—say starting in mid-30s. Maybe she’s just not there yet. Again, I think you need to decide if your wife as she is—with her attraction to you, and all the things that make her uniquely herself—is exciting enough for you or whether you care more that she conform to whatever it is that you think she should be and want.

But lastly in response to the issue of her unadventurousness, yes, it appears that she’s not being ggg. Have you really let her know how much you want to try some of these boundary-crossing acts? Don’t mix that desire up with the way she comes or the fact that she doesn’t appear to have any unexplored interests herself; just have a conversation about what you want to do. Pick an activity that interests you that doesn’t seem too threatening for her to start. Tell her that you have always wanted to explore this and you are excited at the idea of doing it with her. Listen to her response and don’t nag her, but if she continues to put you off with some vague offer of someday, realize that that probably means it’s never going to happen. So if that is what she gives you, you have some other decisions vis a vis your marriage to consider.

15

I'll bet my life savings all his previous gfs were faking it....and not just because his letter had a douchey tone. Most younger women are faking it for various reasons, not all of them their partners fault.

16

Out of all the women I’ve “slept with”, only one could easily come from PIV, a handful more could do it occasionally, and one could ONLY come in cowgirl position, not oral or any other position (this was in a pre-vibrators era). So I call Trump-level bullshit to anyone who claims “all my other partners could do it.”

17

Star @15: "Most younger women are faking it for various reasons, not all of them their partners fault." Well said and very true.

18

Yet again, Donny shows why he deserves his own column. And I mean the sheep comment, not that there's anything wrong with 16 either.

20

I found this letter frustrating before for the same reason I find it frustrating now: not enough info. If the woman shutting her eyes and focusing on stim of her clit is a FEATURE of their sex life required for her to get off, then he just needs to get over it. If it's the main thing- something that must happen every single time, what they work up to every single time, the end every single time- then they need to expand. Since we don't know which it is, there's really no way to give advice on this matter. Hachacha, those men are advised to ALSO focus more on their partner, not to give up an expectation of stimulation to their dicks. The reason this statement needs to be made is that, for some men, stimulation to their dicks is what sex means by definition to them. Again, we don't know the situation here- how this act which brings her to orgasm fits into their sex life generally. Like if they are doing other things that bring them both mutual pleasure but it includes a few minutes of her focused masturbation and he finds this boring, he needs to just get over that.

As for the expectation of having more kink and exploration, I don't know what there is to say. Seems foolish to marry someone who has never done a thing with the expectation that they will start doing it at some random time in the future. This is further complicated by the vagueness of his desires. Did they discuss specifically what sorts of new kinky things they will start trying? Because that could mean a lot of different things to different people.Makes you wonder why they were in a hurry to get married- like did one of them propose to the other and then they had an "only if you promise we'll be kinky after the marriage" conversation? Seems like we're missing info again.

In short, I find this letter as annoying this time as I did last time.


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