Slog AM: Fauci Warns of "Needless Suffering and Death," Reopening Restaurants Must Keep Logs, Massive Potato Giveaway Soon

Comments

1

Riveting Testimony right now @
https://www.nytimes.com/

4

if trump can’t keep covid out of the white house when they have unlimited access to testing he is going to have a hard time convincing everyone else they’re safe when they don’t have the same resources at their disposal

4

Speaking of Life Jackets
didn't trump barely excape Prison
for selling Defective ones to Children?

5

"A stabbing among acquaintances on the bus: " Ban aquaintances to stop aquaintance violence.

6

@2
Why does health care has to be a for profit enterprise? (Hint - Bernie Sanders)

7

@3, do you understand the difference between checkpoints and roadblocks? Also, that would be illegal, but you clearly don't care any more about the law than you do English.

8

@5
Aaaah the good old days of the Metro bus routes 174 and 359 are gone - but don't worry, there are so many other routes to choose from - when you want to ride with your deranged neighbors.
I was almost attacked on the #33 en route to Magnolia! And you thought they were all Seattle yuppies!

9

Trump is really hanging no so he won't face prison for being a co-conspirator in the Michael Cohen case, as the statute of limitations would run out if he is re-elected. The time has come for Barr and Pence to work out a deal for a full pardon for Trump provided he resign and give Pence the presidency and the run against Biden.

10

@9 Pence and Barr are as big a pair of crooks as Trump, dipshit.

11

All of the needless suffering and death experienced in this country due to COVID-19 could have been prevented if we didn't have Donnie Dumb Ass sitting on his gold throne, shitting and tweeting and flushing 20 times a day. The needless suffering and death is a FEATURE, not a bug. Trump and his enablers (all, whoever they are, wherever they may be) WANT people to die. They are literally demanding that people do so.

So what's it going to be? Will you die for Trumpty Dumpty?

I fucking refuse to draw my last breath until that motherfucker is dead.

12

@9: So?

13

@2:

Do you have any idea how a for-profit healthcare system operates? Naw, didn't think so, but here's a little 101 primer: because the U.S. healthcare industry operates in a for-profit market environment providers and facilities are expected to not only meet their operational overhead costs, but to generate a PROFIT for their shareholders. With roughly 80% of their business curtailed due to the current pandemic that's not happening, and so shareholders are demanding either that costs be cut and service reduced while at the same time they're pressuring governing authorities to allow more elective surgeries to take place, which is where they make most of their income/profit..

Now, if hospitals, clinics, and medical care facilities operated in a non-profit environment - which is the case in literally every other major industrialized nation around the globe - profit wouldn't drive the system and it would be a moot point. But, apparently we think it's better to pay a lot for demonstrably lower standards of service and outcomes than those other countries because - well, actually I have no idea why we believe that except CAPITALISM.

Hope that clears things up for you...

14

Not sure what I think about proposed restaurant logs.
I certainly hope that my favorite restaurants will be able to re-open asap, and this does seem like a path forward, but... this seems heavy-handed.
I wonder why they ruled out just having one person being responsible for each party.
A family goes into a restaurant and dad has to give up his kid's email address? That won't work.
I'm maybe misreading this.

16

@Comte -- expecting dialogue
w/trollingtrollytrolleyTroll?

Good. Luck.

17

"The economic crisis is 100% man-made and needless.
the virus is not a threat to society's economic or medical well being."
--@trollingtrollytrolleyTroll

MORE Nonsense?
Ignorance or
Willful blindness?

18

In some parts where there is damned fine coffee, it's the Log Lady that keeps the logs for the reopened cafe.

And those who are in denial of this disease are putting everyone else at risk

19

sweden’s economy is still in the shitter despite thousands of lives being sacrificed for the false promise of “herd immunity” with less than 3% of the population has been exposed to the virus

https://www.ft.com/content/93105160-dcb4-4721-9e58-a7b262cd4b6e

20

The crisis itself is not manmade but our president’s insistence on pretending it would go away on its own during the crucial first 2 months of the outbreak made it far worse than it needed to be. No excuses why the wealthiest country on earth couldn’t have contained this when we had the chance to do so but trump’s fear of upsetting the stock market — which seems to be doing just fine despite thousands dead and millions out of work — left millions of Americans vulnerable not only to illness and death but an uncertain financial future. It didn’t have to be this bad.

21

"Needless Suffering and Death" has been the unofficial motto of the Republican party since at least the age of Reagan. It's what the cretins vote for.

22

Virus Advisers, at Odds With Trump,
Warn Senators Against Hasty Reopening

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/12/us/coronavirus-updates.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

FREE CV-19 Reporting at the New York Times

Remember:
Decent Healthcare
IS National Security

23

@9 A presidential pardon won't protect Trump from New York State prosecutors hot on his trail for financial crimes. He remains vulnerable to prosecution at the state level.

24

Fauci is either ignorant or indifferent to the needless suffering and death caused by an extended lockdown.

This is a decision that needs to involve experts from a wide variety of fields, not just virology.

25

@blip: "if trump can’t keep covid out of the white house"

Not even South Korea can contain the virus with it's extensive testing system. It's simply too contagious. Choices are isolate the vulnerable and open everything else up or remain on lockdown indefinitely.

By the way, the puff pieces you read about fast-tracked vaccines are nothing but click-bait. It will take at least 18 months, Lord Fauci has said as much.

26

@25: "Not even South Korea can contain the virus with it's extensive testing system."

Never mind the bad grammar, this is nice, little bit of disinformation that's untethered from reality. The original outbreak in Korea happened with a massive church gathering. They managed to get that under control. Now there was a carrier exposing people at a nightclub (no idea why they're allowing nightclubs to be open at this stage in their recovery), and you know what, they'll get that under control too.

The Koreans aren't stupid, and what they've learned is, it's always easier to nip these things in the bud. Yeah, it ain't perfect, but near-perfect sure beats all the other alternatives.

Hey Dadddy, feel free to keep your own fount of stupid flowing. I realize it's only hope.

27

Re. @26, if I'm going to ding people for bad grammar, I need to do my own proofreading before clicking Send.

And no, still a firm no on an edit button feature.

28

@blip: "sweden’s economy is still in the shitter"

Says who, the journalist you linked to? Fuck him, I'd like to hear what the experts say about Sweden's economy relative to others, not to mention their psychological and physical well-being. Also, their children are all in school now! It would be interesting to hear experts weigh in on the sociological toll of derailing millions of kids' educations.

"with less than 3% of the [Swedish] population has been exposed to the virus"

Pure bullshit. Random testing suggested 3.1% of the Swedish population was infected way back on March 28th, and three weeks ago they were well over 20%.

It's obvious you NEED Sweden to fail or you'll be revealed as a panicked and cowardly idiot. Worse, that means Trump supporters were right, which would be utterly intolerable to you. But these stupid battle lines are completely contrived! There's nothing liberal about forced lockdowns, nor is there anything conservative about wanting to open up. Cut the tribalism, lives are at stake!

29

Oh, and whenever anyone says Korea can't contain the virus, all we have to do is look at the numbers:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/south-korea/

Their idea of an outbreak was having 35 new cases yesterday and 34 the day before.

And unlike corrupt regimes like China, Russia, and Florida, you know the Koreans aren't lying about their numbers.

30

Dadddy @28: "It's obvious you NEED Sweden to fail or you'll be revealed as a panicked and cowardly idiot."

Dadddy-oh, it's obvious you need Korea to fail. I mean, why else would you be misrepresenting Korea's experience?

I do believe Sweden is conducting an interesting experiment that we can all learn from. And at least Sweden is an open enough society that we can trust their numbers. Just, I'm glad at least our governor here in WA is not interesting in making us the guinea pigs in the same experiment.

31

25 not sure what puff pieces about vaccines you’re referring to (18 months would be an extremely optimistic “fast-rack” vaccine by my personal estimation) or why i should trust your take on sweden’s economy over actual economists and/or my own ability to read a line graph but my invitation for you to go fuck yourself still stands

32

@cressona: Thank you for making my point - South Korea is having REPEATED outbreaks and lockdowns, even with their sophisticated testing system, and they will continue to have more, until how long? 2021? 2022?

Knowing that, wouldn't you say it's ASSURED that we can't open up our own shitty country without massive resurgences? Even Fauci says so.

Our choices are open up and accept the spread, or remained on lockdown indefinitely.

33

@blip: "my invitation for you to go fuck yourself"

I think I'll stick around and keep fact checking your scientifically and economically illiterate bullshit.

34

your daily reminder that during a pandemic that kills 1 out of every 100 people who get it the choice is not between a shitty locked down economy and a normal healthy one but a shitty locked down economy and a shitty open one with way more dead people

35

@cressona: "Never mind the bad grammar"

You catch typos better than Clippy. Impressive!

36

33 you may be the most pure example of the dunning krueger effect i’ve ever come across

37

Sincere question, if anyone (other than the trolls) are interested in responding...

Let's presume that among reasonable folks, it's agreed that some amount of "stay in place" was required to stave off millions of people dying.

Do you think Inslee/Wa got it just about right, or too much, or too little, and don't bother answering that unless you can share how you arrived at that conclusion.

Are there any significant ways in which you think it should have been handled differently?

38

@blip: "kills 1 out of every 100 people"

You've got to be kidding me. More bullshit. Wow.

Best estimates put the overall death rate at 2 / 1000 for the population in general, and less than 1 / 1000 if you're not elderly or immune compromised. The death rate for elderly isn't even 1 / 100.

The most charitable interpretation I can come up with for your WILDLY incorrect figure is that you are dividing deaths by the number of people who TESTED positive as opposed to the number of people who ARE positive*. Not entirely your fault, the media has been misreporting this statistic since the beginning.

*as estimated through random sampling.

39

Dadddy @32: "Thank you for making my point - South Korea is having REPEATED outbreaks and lockdowns, even with their sophisticated testing system..."

Again, I don't quite see the need misrepresent events. South Korea had one minor outbreak, out of which they decided--God forbid--to shut down nightclubs indefinitely. Oh, the horror!

If anything, their ability to jump on this one small cluster and get going on snuffing it out with "Minority Report" efficiency is an indication that their approach is working. And I'm sure there's nobody in Korea right now who's going, "Oh dear God, all is lost. It's time we just gave up and let nature take its course."

Over the coming years, we're going to see the public health and economic results of two approaches:
A. Let the virus just wash over us.
B. Nip it in the bud.

I believe what we're going to find is that, in terms of both public health and economic recovery, B is going to prove far more successful.

40

@blip: "the dunning krueger effect"

Funny you should mention that - David Dunning was my professor. Brilliant guy, and also really nice.

41

@cressona: "B. Nip it in the bud"

I'd love to hear our plan for doing that.

42

US: 82.5K deaths / 1.39M confirmed cases = 5.9% fatality

Global: 290K deaths / 4.23M cases = 6.9% fatality

1% fatality is a conservative estimate that assumes we are drastically undercounting its prevalence but we won’t know the true fatality rate until we have a reliable serological assay to retrospectively confirm who had it

43

@37 There's no way to know. We have to go back farther. What if Trump had not destroyed the pandemic response team and protocol? What if Trump had not fired the CDC personnel working in China? What if we had a president that put a full stop to COVID-19 the way President Obama put a full stop to Ebola in this country? There are too many what ifs. And the CDC has not helped because they had been gutted in so many ways prior to this happening that their response was half-assed from the get go (for instance telling people they did not have to wear masks). What if the nursing home in WA that was the first hot spot had been shut down over any of the number of years it was solely fined for not following proper protocol for sanitizing and keeping things clean? We could what if ourselves to death.

Now the what ifs are:
What if we keep everything locked down?
What if we don't keep everything locked down?

Because the federal government chose to do nothing and left governor twisting in the wind on how to respond, we're all going to find out the hard way just how much pain and suffering this country is going to have to go through before this is over. It's only just begun.

44

@11, I concur with your assessment of Donnie Dumb Ass. But why do you omit De Blasio and Cuomo from that company? They had the same limited information, and non-existent national support, as Inslee, Durkan, Brown (Oregon), and Newsome (CA), yet we gave up our ventilators for lack of demand, while they stacked the bodies. The NYT breaks down their myopic, concessions to their base, concessions to businesses responses quite well. They were Inslee in rhetoric, but Trumpian in deed. They killed.

45

@9 a president Pence could only pardon federal crimes, there are plenty of state charges out there, I'm not sure they are enough for him to die in prison, but at least there may be some real photos of him in an orange jumpsuit.

46

@37 Fair question.

With out a vaccine, sheltering in place would need to last until such time as that vaccine was available to about 7billion people; if the goal is to save lives from the pandemic alone (Suicides due to stresses related to the Lockdown will be discussed over cocktails at a future date).

Pandemics are not solved medically by one state doing A and another state doing B.

While one nations does This, and another nation does That. The Pandemic is solved by millions dying and it fading out when there is no unified plan for addressing it.

There is no unified plan, either nationally or globally.

47

Dadddy @41: "I'd love to hear our plan for doing that." It's all a variation on what Korea, Germany, Norway, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Australia, and New Zealand have been doing successfully:
* Testing.
* Contact tracing and isolation.
* Travel restrictions.
* Masks.

You do all this well enough, you get the number of cases down low enough that you effectively can trace all of them, and you can start to reopen with confidence. Is it going to be life as we knew it before? Certainly not. But it's not going to be stay-at-home either.

One enormous deadline we have for opening things up with the new quasi-normal is the new school year. Students have to go back to school, even if it's socially distanced school. We pretty much have the summer to get a handle on this, and it all would have gone so much faster if the feds hadn't been dragging their heels on the testing and contact tracing.

Thankfully, it looks like WA, OR, and CA are all thinking along these lines, as limited as state governments are in deploying these levels of resources.

48

facts2supportURpoint @44, totally agreed on Cuomo and De Blasio's disastrous failure. It gobsmackingly galling to me that somehow Andrew Cuomo is supposed to be emerging from this with his reputation burnished. As if being good at giving press conferences is the same as effectively governing. There's a story in The New Yorker I've been meaning to read about how Seattle and WA responded effectively at the beginning (and saved lives) and NY and NY didn't.

Oh, and while we in WA responded well, we could have responded better. That March 7 Sounders game should never have been played. If you want to see who really kicked ass, it's Gavin Newsom in CA (as you say) and SF Mayor London Breed.

49

‘Furloughs and layoffs could be coming to UW Medicine?’ You’re a little behind the power curve, Sparky; my wife works for UW Medicine and she’s got her furlough notice.

50

@16:

Dialog? Not even remotely my expectation because I know they're not interested in that - they just want someone to acknowledge their sad, impotent, completely unexceptional existence.

51

A big fuck you to everyone saying "all those people who would be dying anyway." Every day there are between 1000 and 2000 deaths here in the U.S. Donald Trump should be held accountable for every single one of them.

31-year-old postal worker and mom of 3 dies from COVID-19 one week after giving birth
https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Wellness/31-year-postal-worker-mom-dies-covid-19/story?id=70633771&cid=clicksource_4380645_7_heads_posts_headlines_hed

52

*deaths from COVID-19

54

Looks like the 404 troll had to make a regular 'ol account. Poor "Amy N." No chicken tendies for you.

55

"There is no unified plan, either nationally or globally."

Yes. Only because of dipshits like you and the other dumbfucks in this thread.

56

@43 xina & @46 Sargon, I appreciate your thoughts on this, and generally agree with everything you're saying.

I was looking a little more for what folks would do if they were in Inslee’s shoes (based on the information that’s been publicly reported), but maybe that’s too far out there as a thought experiment.

I think my larger point of thinking about it is that it’s easy to argue to keep things the way they are vs going back to the way it was, but obviously there’s “lines” for everything. Inslee (and of course all the experts that surround him) didn’t just wake up one day with the answers of how much to close things down - they’ve determined the “lines” that we are now living by, and whether you largely agree with them or not, it’s still important to question which side of the line you're on - did we go too far or are we not going far enough with the stay-in-place orders, and why you feel that way.

I don’t have a great answer either, other than I think they’ve got it about right, and I think that because they’ve done about as much as they can do with the reality of the infrastructure that’s in place (e.g. people still need to be able to acquire food & household good, they still need emergency services, they still need to be able to get a plumber to fix their broken toilet, etc.).

57

"This is a decision that needs to involve experts from a wide variety of fields, not just virology."

The HUBRIS and ignorance of this comment! Dude you've been wrong about this every step of the way yet you act like YOU'RE one of the 'experts." You're not.

Well Gee. Good thing they aren't the only experts involved! Because virology studies the virus itself and the the disease they cause. They don't craft policy. They advise on the nature of the virus and it's possible cures, etc. But this a PANDEMIC. Epidemiologists are the ones that study and her craft policy about PANDEMICS.

Epidemiologists gather biostatistics, take days from social AND economic sciences and assess the risk of exposure, etc.It's epidemiologists that study patterns and social reactions to infectious diseases, dumbfuck.

HAHAHA. Oh god. So when your mom was pregnant they really should've discussed this with all sorts of other experts in other fields besides pediatrics and obstetrics. Like engineers. Maybe plumbers!

58

@profHiz -- most plumbers
moonlight as midwives. I
thought everyone knew...

59

@58 I love how “daddy” wants to hear from the “experts” about Sweden’s economy. But not the “experts” in epidemiology about the pandemic.

He must be exhausted from running back and forth moving those goal posts, inventing new logical fallacies and contradictions. Not to mention the mental energy it takes to maintain that level of cognitive dissonance.

What the fuck does it take for these dipshits to simply just admit when they are wrong and move on? I will never understand it.