So what's the narrative going to be when the cops return to their station and shootings still happen and police response time is still a joke like it's always been? CHAZ may be losing its credibility but that doesn't mean cops are all of a sudden going to make anything better.
Wheeled infantry carriers like the Stryker won't tear up the streets like the Bradley would.
If CHOP had been Black-led, well-led, media savvy and focused on engaging the city's leaders they would have made it. As it was...
Left a media pre-set to support it practically begging for a compelling storyline. Daily interviews with leaders? Nyet. Well-publicized demands for leaders to come to CHOP for dialogues? Nope. Squandered opportunities left and right to engage broader support. Oh hell yes.
Appearing on any serious city leader's radar as a must-visit, must-engage-with, valuable ally? Not seeing it.
Oh CHOP. You coulda been a contender.
I hope these shootings get resolved. I feel
like whenever there’s a shooting in Seattle and young, disadvantaged or Black people are the victims it gets forgotten about and remains unsolved.
@7: shut yo' pie hole, honky.
@7: To be fair, the Capitol Hill Unorganized Mumbling Protest zone didn't exist directly because of #BLM. It existed because the East Precinct SPD kept attacking pro-#BLM demonstrations. When the mayor had finally had enough, she ordered a de-escalation. (Meanwhile, all across Seattle, we had pro-#BLM demonstrations without the slightest hint of violence.) That long-overdue de-escalation accidentally produced the CHUMP, which is now going to dissipate because nobody really wanted it, led it, or cared about it. (Certainly nobody from #BLM, anyway.)
"The party's over
But I've landed on my feet
I'll be standing on this corner
Where there used to be a street"- Leonard Cohen
Damn those malingerers and hipsters trying to make the scene!
SHORTER DURKAN : Even though the cops kicked your asses repeatedly for 2 weeks at MY AUTHORIZATION,, and the neighbors had to lie in bed everynight_ listening to the exploding grenade-bombs of oppression the police were firing at you hippies,---and your screams when being hit with their sticks.... now, NOW it's "too much" for them to see beautiful murals and powerful public conversations about systemic racism.... now, NOW you should go "home" to your non-existent jobs, get back to work, and stop requesting an end to the daily state-backed racist violence that kills hundreds of American citizens every year, quietly, just beyond the effort of most reporters & editors. I'm certainly not going to do anything substantive about it. Mark my words.
Yes, I --Mayor Durkan-- say to you: The white suburban population who is ~ahem~ the majority in this town, are breathing down my neck & I'm worried about my re-election chances or my shot at Governor. So begone, you brats! Time's up! ...If we can't beat you into submission with "rubber" bullets & chemical weapons...(Big <3 Thanks Chief Best!!)... then we're going to publicly shame you, skew the news in our favor, and make all the troubles seem like YOUR fault. Because they are. Brats.
I know you all are children, so hear me good: Mommy says go ni' ni' now,... or else it'll be the wooden spoon again. Got it? Good.
Personally, I still want answers to exactly WHO was pushing for and authorizing TWO WEEKS of repeated police violence against peaceful demonstrators. And HOW. And WHY.
Police are well-versed in de-escalation tactics for street demos... they know exactly what makes things better, and what makes things worse... and SPD ~repeatedly~ sought to make things worse and more agitated. Night after night. WT the motherfuck F?!
I want answers. Brutal honesty.
The buck stops with Durkan, but Best.... is still a cop & can't be trusted.
Of course CHAZ/CHOP was never going to be permanent. So what? That's not the point.
What they may be able to use is the 'Ranger' model from BurningMan... unarmed, trained friendly DE-escalators working pro-socially to keep the peace. Very effective.
(Unlike cops, who simply escalate every chance they get.)
Here, D. Graeber explains the point of modern revolutions in this primer:
A Practical Utopian's Guide to the Coming Collapse
From Woodstock to Altamont in only 10 days. Impressive.
Send in the tanks.
@21: Correction: The urban people of white are the majority in this town.
"The impacts on the businesses..."
It's no grammatical accident that Durkan mentions business first, followed by "residents and community."
If you keep in mind that the Chamber of Commerce and the SPD are her power base, everything she says and does makes perfect sense.
15 nailed it. Unfortunately for BLM the feral children who were never taught how to be functioning adults have ruined yet another party. BLM has significant legitimate social issues to advance, but the community's dregs are just siphoning off the public goodwill.
Yet more bloody and horrific shootings in the CHOP Tuesday morning.
But of course, we should take it nonchalantly as we have 40% less crime that 20 years ago according to our esteemed professor.
It was unorganized and rudderless. I’d agree with @7 that they wasted an opportunity. No one wanted to come forward and lead the way. You can’t occupy a protest zone, post some vague “demands” online then sit around eating tacos and drinking coffee waiting for someone to bring you what you’ve demanded. It’s not a pizza, you have to work for it. That means engaging, promotion, goals, actually executing your idea and fostering your movement.
Burning Man works because it’s an ethos supported by a community. There is leadership, a clear agenda and a sense of common purpose. That wasn’t present in the CHOP. It is/was a ragtag collection of trustafarians, homeless with some out of work angry kids overshadowing those that were there to seek change. The traction is there for Seattle to make an impact in the movement toward police reform and addressing systemic racism in the system. This wasn’t the vehicle.
Too bad the precinct is going back. That area could have been another Westlake/Seattle Center sort of gathering and protest place absent the encampment. All day, no overnight. Stage rallies, voter registration drive, organize marches as the start or finish using the precinct as a community center for outreach. Essentially a modern day, Rain City Haight-Ashbury. Hopefully they’ll leave some of the art.
If I base it on the comments section, the Stranger's pro-CHOP reporting slant isn't working.
Here is a lesson for all you professional protesters:
Just a few years ago, all these homicide cops would just get paid vacation (suspended with pay), and be right back on the job.
Today, they are fired, arrested, and charged.
That is DAMN a lot of progress for this old progressive!
But, you keep protesting, allowing Antifa and looters run amok.
Who benefits? Trump.
Because 99% of people see the progress and they are NOT on your side.
Count the number of protesters and divide it by Seattle's population.
Now that there has been a third night of shootings, making that 3 out of the last 4, I don't think the city is exploiting anything. I think CHOP is exploiting the BLM movement. It's sad to see the meaningful protest and positive momentum toward actual changed spoiled by this, but it has in fact spoiled it.
Real violence was starting and was likely to increase. This made Mayor Jenny "Summer of Love" Durkan look like a fool and she had to cut the fantasy short.
@21: You seem surprised our police directed violence against protesters downtown and in Pike-Pine. That's been happening for over twenty years now, starting at least as far back as WTO. (In that case, the violence on Capitol Hill was even more upon the cops, who first chased protesters uphill from downtown, and then let fly with tear gas and stun grenades, shot down our residential streets at night.) The SPD simply regards any demonstrations in downtown and Capitol Hill as illegitimate, and routinely attacks any demonstrators. Contrast this with other neighborhoods in the city, which have seen large events in support of #BLM. These events have also had police presence -- in normal uniforms, not battle gear -- and no violence.
None of this has ever been explained. I suggest we start getting explanations now, because whatever model the police use everywhere else in the city should also apply in downtown, Pike-Pine, and Broadway. This would be a good first step toward true reform of SPD.
@47: This, from the guy who insisted Durkan had to be mayor, and still hasn't got accepted the reality that he hates Sawant but the voters DON'T.
@48: You're free to tell us what was wrong with my historical account of SPD violence against protestors. Given the exact same pattern of violence has continued for decades under various mayors, chiefs of police, and many, many different city council members, I do wonder why you believe the identities of those officeholders should be considered relevant to the question.
Take down that fisting statue as well.
as a native of the pnw, a 20+ year resident of seattle, and a two-time resident of capitol hill (firstly during WTO, and secondly during the past five years), LISTEN TO THE GD PROFESSOR.
you want crime stats? have a look! they’re not f’n hard to find. the capitol hill blog is a great resource for starters, as is the #spd blotter.
want evidence that the #spd is completely ineffective/uninterested in stemming the now TOTALLY PREDICTABLE and major rise in violence on the hill every summer? listen to ANYONE who’s lived anywhere in or near the core in the past few years.
you want to know how we know the #spd is still failing its federally mandated “reform?” DOCUMENTATION FROM ITS FEDERALLY MANDATED—AND STILL ONGOING—“REFORM.”
if #chop has to die, so what? did anyone really think it would last? i do think that dilution and lack of leadership caused some opportunities to be missed, but again, so what? nobody from the community requested a full #spd evacuation from the east precinct in the first place, and i can guarantee you that the lion’s share of capitol hill residents will be glad to see #chop go at this point—as long as durkan/best do it PEACEFULLY. people need sleep. this is just BIOLOGY.
so f*k chop. let’s get back to our original programming FFS. the seattle times just declared it CANCELLED this morning. let’s show those f**ers UP.
also, strong summary, nathalie. ty.
49, my point is that what you posted there-and I'll agree that it's historically accurate-does not, in anyway, invalidate any of the points you thought it did. Yes, it's been a long-term issue, we all know that-but still, in pushing as hard as you did for Durkan, you knew you were pushing for the candidate who would do more than any other candidate to preserve the police brutality status quo.
@53 enough with the Petty Personal Grievances. if you want change, focus on moving FORWARD. breathe deep and say it with me:
@53: "...you knew you were pushing for the candidate who would do more than any other candidate to preserve the police brutality status quo."
And how did you somehow know a Mayor Moon would bring swift, radical reform to the Police Department? Because she pretty much said she was happy with the status quo in City Hall:
'"I will not be asking department directors for their immediate resignations when I take office, as some new mayors do," Moon writes. "Instead, I will ask for resumes and discussions to gain a better understanding of the experience and perspective they each bring to their jobs, and what they need to be successful. I will set expectations with department directors, empower them to do their jobs well, and ensure accountability in the event they do not."'
If anything, expecting Mayor Durkan to hold the SPD to the Consent Decree she herself had signed(!) made her the candidate to reform the SPD. That she has not done so validates the point of what I recalled: the problem of police violence goes a lot deeper than who we elect. (Minneapolis is hardly an unreconstructed Deep South racist sh*t-hole, after all. )
Again, twenty years worth of evidence shows that merely choosing candidates in elections has done NOTHING to change the violent misbehaviors of the SPD. So, again, what was your point in implying otherwise?
@56: But here's the thing: Nobody was claiming that the problem started with Durkan. We all know it started before her. Why do you think it even matters how far back the problem goes? It's not as though Durkan is off the hook if Seatttle had had the world's only Gandhian police force before Durkan arrived.
You are right that it didn't start with Durkan, but the fact that it didn't is also irrelevant.
You are right that it didn't start with Durkan, but the fact that it didn't is irrelevant at this point.
@59: You haven't answered my question. How did you know a Mayor Moon would do better?
You didn't, of course, which is why you simply won't answer, no matter how many times you post. But you now pretend whom we elected mayor makes a difference, even though we have now twenty years (at least) of evidence to show it doesn't. Ditto for whom we select as Police Chiefs, and elect as Council Members. It simply has made no difference. None. (Twenty-plus years ago, we had a Black mayor, and a City Council with no white guys on it.)
"It's not as though Durkan is off the hook if Seatttle had had the world's only Gandhian police force before Durkan arrived."
If SPD had no recent history of attacking demonstrators downtown and in Pike-Pine before she arrived, and they do so now, then yes, you could make a case the problem resides with Durkan. The total lack of change over decades shows the problem does not reside with one person. That you persistently and seriously claim not to understand this makes me wonder just how vast your entitled sense of privilege must be.
"Why do you think it even matters how far back the problem goes?"
Why is actual history always so inconveniently incompatible with your belief system and worldview? Do you ever wonder that? I'm guessing you don't; you just get angry about it, never knowing why -- and then lashing out in rage at anyone who dares point this out to you.
Petty Personal Grievances do not. #forward
Cops lie. They're trained to do it, just like they're trained to kill. Best no different.
This is a response I thought I posted earlier, but apparently I didn’t. Apologies for that.
It wasn’t that I was ducking the question of whether Moon would have been better on addressing violent structural police racism- it’s just that, when I first posted, that question simply didn’t strike me as relevant.
But, since you insist that it is, I will address that.
Here is my argument-and as you recall I was never a huge Moon fan-as to why she would have done a better job of addressing that set of issues.
Unlike Durkan, Moon was never a prosecutor. That means she would never have gone into office with the “the police can do no wrong” attitude that anyone who’d been a long-term part of law enforcement culture is likely to have.
As a non-prosecutor, Moon would have been far more likely to listen, from the start, to groups like BLM and others challenging law enforcement culture, challenging the whole assumption that the police HAD to treat black and brown people with far more harshness than they treat white people in equivalent situations, such as traffic stops for burnt out or busted tail lights-the sort of stop where a white person can count on getting away alive, but black and brown people can’t.
As to history...look, nobody is denying that there was a violent police culture in Seattle long before Durkan. Everyone acknowledges that. But each mayor, when she comes into office, then becomes responsible for dealing with it, for acknowledging it, and for actually trying to do something about it.
Durkan never even tried. Until the murder of George Floyd, she clearly didn't care that racist police violence was an issue. And as a former prosecutor, she was complicit IN racist police and carceral violence.
It still puzzles me, btw as to why you were so venomous about Moon and Oliver daring to run against Durkan. That’s what happens in elections. If you don’t have more than one candidate running, it isn’t an election, it’s a freaking coronation. And as we have seen, Durkan never deserved a coronation.
Moon did have her flaws as a candidate-she made a fatal mistake in basing her campaign almost entirely on self-financing rather than building a proper campaign organization and making a real effort to connect with progressive groups-but it puzzles me that you, as someone who identifies as a “pro-business Democrat”, would have an issue with Moon, who spent much of her career in business before becoming an urban planner. Why would someone with a record like that get so much hostility from you? Why would you act as though she was being presumptuous even to run?
Durkan wasn’t offended that Moon ran. She accepted that the presence of other candidates in the race was simply the way of it. Why were you?
Durkan is a cruel and ruthless woman. Her history as a prosecutor and her authorized savage attacks by the police on the unsheltered has furthered the police state, third world slum look of Seattle that she has triggered. She is a racist of the worst order because she has power.
She is only a part of this corporate capitalist rule that we are experiencing that many want ended. We want the boots taken off our necks. We strive for a better world.
BLACK LIVES MATTER. Honor the demands.
The powers in the city didn’t want the police precinct turned into a community center that would serve the people. How dare uncontrolled people try to attempt that feat.
They are ok with continued misery and they don’t want to hear about it from the people.
39 What a disgusting remark and what it says about you.
@66: "It wasn’t that I was ducking the question of whether Moon would have been better on addressing violent structural police racism- it’s just that, when I first posted, that question simply didn’t strike me as relevant."
The entire premise of your comment @48 rested upon the choice of mayor being important to CHOP. And yet, it took several of my responses before you considered the relevance of what a Mayor Moon might have done. You're just not used to thinking things through, are you? (Your privilege is showing...)
Everything you wrote about a Mayor Moon's possible actions consists entirely of your own speculation, ungrounded in any fact. By contrast, look again at my response @56. It's based upon a long quote from mayoral-candidate Moon, wherein she expresses no problem with the status quo at City Hall. It's hard to believe such a person would have been open to reforming the SPD anytime before the recent world-wide protests against racism and police brutality. Yet that's your critique of Durkan, that she took no action before now. If we had a choice of two candidates, and no evidence to believe that either of them would do anything, then why did you even bother to mention our choice @48?
"...as someone who identifies as a “pro-business Democrat”,
Oh, look: you put that in quotes, as if to imply I'd ever identified myself as any such thing. Of course, you could never produce such a quote from me, not even if you'd ever actually tried, because I have never described myself as a "pro-business [Party Member]." I could not have described myself as such, because I have never joined any political party, of any name, anywhere, ever.
"It still puzzles me, btw as to why you were so venomous about Moon and Oliver daring to run against Durkan."
It probably still puzzles you as to why you can't quote me describing myself as a "pro-business Democrat," either.
"Why would you act as though she was being presumptuous even to run?"
Confusing your opinions with documented facts merely reveals your chronic, unearned privilege.
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