Remember all those years ago conservatives and gun nuts shit themselves about Jade Helm? Now it's actually happening and there is complete silence from the people who stockpile personal arsenals to allegedly prevent this exact situation.
You left out the most important point: Keep emphatically declaring that your captivity is unconstitutional. According to an NBC report I watched, that's what got prior captives released.
@3 Keep hanging around. Maybe you'll get an opportunity to tell us "its not a clip, its a magazine"
Important distinction: These goons are police from various federal agencies (ICE, federal marshals, etc.) and possibly private mercenaries like Academi (formerly Blackwater / Xe) as well. To my knowledge, they aren't Army or any other branch of the US military.
Uhm, these are federal cops, not the U.S. Army! (The U.S. active duty military hates to get involved any kind of domestic use of force activity).
DHS is probably the lead federal agency for what is going on in Portland. For the clueless, both Repubs and Dems in Congress have given DHS and other federal cops tremendous powers to operate against U.S. citizens in the name of public safety. If you don't like what you see, Congress is the pressure point.
You need to define your terminology:
Violent Rioters ≠ Peaceful Protester
Federal Cops ≠ Army
You are Journalisming all over yourself!
I can’t wait for some good-guys-with-guns to step in and confront these unidentified, masked thugs from abducting people off the street
Using PMCs on Americans is like hiring mercenaries to oppress your own people. Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness supersede property, as if broken glass and stolen merchandise were more valuable than our own citizens' broken and stolen rights. I wouldn't wish these gestapo tactics on the most abhorrent Trump supporter.
"Pursuit of Happiness" includes property, Garb. But you do have a motto forming, "all people's rights are equal, except some people's rights are more equal than others."
If Congress was more than a bunch of posturing pols, they could stop the worst excesses of what is going on in Portland very quickly. They.cannot stop Trump from deploying federal cops this way because they already gave the president the power to deny federal cops as he sees fit. But, the Dems and civil libertarian Repubs in Congress -- or just the Oregon delegation alone -- can publicly or quietly talk to the DHS career seniors (forget talking to this a**hole Wolf) and threaten the DHS budget if federal cops act like morons against protestors. You want action against the cops? Go after their money! Civics 101.
This is not the US Army and you do a huge disservice to active duty and veterans by reporting this as such. It's Federal agents from DHS.
Ask the Palestinians, they'll tell you all about using innocent women and children protesters as body shields to cover for violent terrorist acts. Similar to the Israelis, it won't be long until the majority of the population of NW is firmly right-of-center, if this violence and destruction of property continues.
@10. No, property rights do not supersede the first, fourth, and fourteenth amendments and are enumerated accordingly, but with due process of law and proper jurisdiction. You are still criminally liable for property destruction, but never to the point of mutual exclusivty with Life and Liberty rights. And even so, you didnt address the main point about using mercenary forces on citizens.
Moreover, scores of peaceful protestors were indiscriminately abducted without just cause or wrongdoing, nowhere near federal property like the Forest Service building. If you do not self identify and operate above the law, you have no jurisdiction to regulate property rights over civil rights unless your direct federal building is attacked or invaded.
You cant abduct someone without reading Miranda rights before or during arrest. And you known jack shit about the law.
Portland and Seattle, in the world according to Garb, isn't burning at the hands of Marxist terrorists. They are only threatening the property don't you see!?! Clearly, by writing the slogan "Kill Bezos" they are not threating anyone's rights to Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness! And "BLM" just means "defund SPD." Those are not "violent looter" breaking windows and stealing, those are just "undocumented shoppers." Apparently, words have no meaning in the world, according to Garb.
Have the people "kidnapped" in Portland been released? Or have they just disappeared. If they've been released have they said anything about their experience?
As others have noted it’s not the Army. It’s worse. The Army legally can’t enforce laws and arrest citizens in the US. These federal officers are indeed sworn peace officers that can effect arrests even away from federal property. The local government can not tell them to leave (well they can ask but have no authority to dismiss them). Legally these arrests can only be for federal crimes for which they have probable cause. And that’s the rub here. No probable cause and fabricated federal charges.
Have there been any arrangements for those arrested? Has anyone even been charged yet?
Good work Mercury.
@17 there are reports from people that were detained in the federal courthouse then released after they invoked their rights. I don’t know if anyone has been charged as of yet.
@16. Sofa, according to himself, can't address what anyone else says, so he accuses them of saying things they never did so he can feel better about the fact that he has nothing to say but parroted duckspeak and overlooking an entire ethos of movements into a singular scapegoat for all citizens to lose their rights.
Here's some words that might have meaning to you; eat shit.
Wow! Garb you sure do dole out quite a bit of "it" in your movements. And you've convinced quite a few in Seattle to "eat it" with you. As far as I am concerned, you can serve yourself. Just remember these prophetic words if your side wins, "it" will be the only thing available to eat. Just ask the victims of Holodomor. Oops!
@22. Yeah, listen to Mr. B and accept the status quo. Let the bad apples spoil the entire bunch and stay home. It's what John Lewis would do.
MrB, will you stop being so flipping reasonable!?!
So, when they start Disappearing folks, will the so-called right be bothered? They seem fine with this current Illegal status quo.
Reemember when Obama disappeared all those fascists?
The issue here is probable cause or the lower standard of probable suspicion. You can’t just start rounding people up randomly. They’d have a difficult time justifying it as a Terry stop. The provisions of the Fourth Amendment extend to the seizure of persons (arrest and detainment) requiring probable cause. In fact if one looks into the bulk of arrests during the PDX protests there are many that either weren’t charged or had the charges dropped. Even in some alleged felony cases. You don’t just drop charges like that unless they were bullshit arrests. Notice how it’s stopped now that it’s been exposed? It’s cheap political theater intended for the base. There is no coordinated strategy only scattershot hit and run operations.
@26- if they started with you and sausage fest, wouldn't be to bothered. After that, yeah, I'd care, and I'm not too right leaning.
I always find it hilarious When someone brings up the arguement of where are the good ole boys now to protect the protesters ? My guess would be Probably going to bed after dinner with Their family and getting ready for work tomorrow. And not throwing a temper tantrum. Portland is one of the whitest cities. They don’t care about black people. Just a bunch of welfare meth heads.
Speaking of trumpf and Fascism
this, from the nyt::
One comment on the article:
"Trump’s Occupation of American Cities Has Begun
Protesters are being snatched from the streets without warrants. Can we call it fascism yet?" By Michelle Goldberg.
I live in downtown Portland, not far from the federal building where the protesters congregate. Our city is not "under siege" by radicals by any stretch of the imagination, as Trump and Fox News want people to believe.
You can walk anywhere today in downtown Portland and barely realize that protests are happening here.
The majority of protesters are peaceful advocates for the Black Lives Matter movement.
A handful of more radical activists (mostly white youngsters) stay near the federal building late at night, spraying graffiti and lobbing items such as water bottles at the police.
This is limited to fewer than 100 activists in a one square block radius and only after midnight. The protests were in fact winding down, until Trump decided to send in his federal thugs to commit violence and whip up hysteria for his base.
Like all authoritarians, Trump is the one trying to create an enemy for people to fear.
--Michael; Portland, OR 7/20/2020
And yep we can call it what it IS:
Not nearly as Horrible as getting
(WITH Eyecare AND Dental!)
PAID Family Time Off
SHOVED DOWN YOUR THROATS
pretty fawking Terrifying, eh?
Oh and Of Course you're
okay with 'just a little,' Fascist7.
@32 - Rights are rights. Either they get defended & preserved ---for everyone--- or they get eroded and diminished. For everyone. If you and your 2A buddies think you'll be safe becausae you feel safe now, well, history can tell you some disconcerting stories about who is ~next~ up against the wall.
Unbadged, unlabelled, undeclared individuals in body armor, wearing "camoflage" (in the city, har har, what yokels) grabbing people, shoving them in unmarked vehicles, & driving them away to destinations unknown... that's what most lawyers call "kidnapping"., yep.
All you "hey, just stay home" milquetoast types: Here's where the rubber meets the road: Have you ever stood up for your, some, any rights? Have you taken a stand on principle, against wrong, when that principle was being physically challenged and in danger of being removed as an operational right? What is your stance on the line between "legal" and "moral"? Are you willing to actually state your ethics? Because if not, if you won't state your ethics, then you're just kibitzers.... "sound & fury, signifying nothing." QED
Do you even know what it actually takes for the popular will to actually effect change in this country?
American's love freedom. There's, not the freedom of anyone else and they are convinced the two are in no way connected.
When this is all over I think we should consider passing some kind of law that will protect a person's right to say things and protest peacefully without the risk of being assaulted.
I think we should make it a really important law too, like the first law or something like that....
I'm not sure how we can get it past the police union though.....
@38 - You say nothing of substance. "What is asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." You are dismissed.
The point about 2A people stepping up has nothing to do with the "left" wanting people with rifles, not at all. It's about integrity and consistency on the part of the 2A people. They want guns to protect against state overreach. When state overreach happens, they are nowhere to be seen. Weak sauce.
You think the "Right" hasn't protested against and damaged and even, oh I don't know, blown up Federal Buildings? You disparage a small group of graffitists in Portland, yet cast a blind eye to the deep historical tradition of the Right attacking Feds and Federal buildings. Indeed, the statistics show that it is the Right wing ---Right-wing white men specifically-- that ambush and kill the most police officers in this nation. By far. White men kill cops. Right wing white men kill cops, regularly.
So, step the fuck off, home-boy. You have less than nothing to stand on. The jackboot you cite will just as readily squash your neck given the opportunity.
@42 - We all have to live together. We are in this together. One nation. We have to make this work... together.
If you are "watching tv" and grinning into your beer that your fellow citizens --Your Fellow Citizens--- are getting their teeth kicked in... that attitude is ultimately self-defeating. When the time comes that you find yourself in the pillory and need "their" help.. why would they show up to help when you take cheap shots and denigrate them now?
How will you work with them? How will you ally with them? What common ground are you willing to work towards?
We all have to live together.
United we stand. Divided we fall.
Your partisan sentiments further the destruction of this nation.
Fail to understand what is actually going on in PDX, and you will fail to prepare for the future.
"It's about integrity and consistency on the part of the 2A people. They want guns to protect against state overreach. When state overreach happens, they are nowhere to be seen. Weak sauce." --@treacle
"It's about integrity and consistency
on the part of the 2A people. They
want guns to protect against state
overreach. When state overreach
happens, they are
to be seen.
What's interesting about
pardon me for interrupting
deci but allow me:
"It's about integrity and consistency
on the part of the 2A people.
They want guns
to protect against
state overreach. When
state overreach happens,
to be seen.
whatever happened to df2?
Wear a body cam continuously uploading to the internet along with a tracking device (like those you can hide on cars) with friends monitoring its signal with your location.
Portland is the rollout, not the test case. The chickens are coming home to roost. For years - especially the last three - the Border Patrol has been using these exact same tactics on immigrants. These employees have been vetted for sociopathy by their willingness and comfort with ripping babies out of the arms of their mothers and locking children in cages. Now they are using these same tactics on American citizens and white people. Most of America's 20 largest cities and urban areas are within 100 miles of the US borders, which is in the jurisdiction of the Border Patrol. This is a defining moment. Please be bothered enough to make the time to call your congress people, both federal and state. They need to hear how angry you are and how worried you are about these abductions. Congressional switchboard # 202-224-3121. If you somehow think "what good will that do?" you need to remember in 2018 when the #GOPDeathCult had control of both houses of congress and the Whitehouse and were hellbent on ending the Affordable Care Act, it was people calling their congress people - many calling once a day - that stopped the #GOPDeathCult from voting away their healthcare. We can do this if you decide its important enough.
I can't name one successful protest that ever took place at night time. I can however name several riots that occurred at night time.
@42 Not true. Clearly other rioters are very much concerned that their fellow rioters are being put in their place. It's group think at it's best. They're still convinced they are protesters because that is what their echo chamber is telling them. And if they are protesters, then this is all so unfair. They don't stop and think that perhaps it is they, the rioters, who are in the wrong.
It's not the Army, the military wouldn't allow themselves to become Trump's Gestapo, as we've already seen, it's the DHS who became Trump's brown shirts.
DHS doesn't have troops. These are Private Contractors from Erik Prince.
Also Expired Acting Deputy DHS Chad Wolf has no authority to send in these mercenaries as his acting term has expired.
deploying federal agents against states against the expressed wish of the mayors and citizenry is troubling. I see people saying it is not insert dictatorship but nothing happens over night. It happens a little bit at a time not all at once. If this is let to stand then what comes next.
I have also notice that if protestors spend 30 solid days getting beaten and pepper sprayed its no big deal but if the protestors in turn do even the slightest violent thing in responce its game over man. The protestors are violent? what about the police tear gassing them and the supremist doing drive by shootings and trying to run them over. If the feds want to remove a violent element perhaps they should start with those people.
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