Another post full of silly stereotypes. Let's pick on Iowa because I like to pick on Iowa. Corn fed, Midwestern and chock full of stupid Bubbas, right?
Trump wins 53% to 45% for Biden. To start, that's 757,000 people that might consider the Progressive point of view if it didn't come wrapped in arrogant, ignorant disdain.
Like a lot of old white guys - You vote for an idiot = you are an idiot. Simple as that
I have no interest in trying to accommodate the 'concerns' of the yahoos that pack the middle of this country. I despise the fuckers. Where 'the bubble' becomes a huge problem: people who are apparently so addled from the carbon dioxide that they think the problem is that 'corporate Dems' are not offering a 'compelling alternative', that is they are not veering far enough left. Now these people are very close to being as out of touch with reality as your average QAnon enthusiast. I was just over at the Guardian site where not one but two pundits are making this exact argument. The question that comes to mind: exactly how much petrol did they huff before sitting down to express these insightful thoughts?
@2 I don't think Biden is an idiot. If I did, I wouldn't have voted for him. I do think that you are, at best, uniformed.
If this is a bubble why are our hospitals filled with people who got COVID and were shipped here to be treated?
I enjoy the insinuation that only people in rural areas vote for buffoons. May I introduce you to your current city council....lol
I’m really curious what combination of magic words Democrats could say that would make rural voters hate us less and stop voting against their own interests and for our mutual destruction.
I mean, Joe Biden is the most moderate milquetoast white man that ever milquetoasted, and they think he’s a raving islamocommunist.
Puddup or shuddup, dumfux.
I love the new liberal ethos: Let's do literally nothing to gain political power on the national stage and then have a huge freakout when we fail to get political power on the national stage. It turns out that to win the presidency or the senate or even convince a majority of the Democratic party to take on progressive ideas, you have to actually convince people outside of the bubble of your ideas, which could mean actually talking to them. That all sounds hard, so let's just trot out tired stereotypes and then have the longest smuggest pity party instead.
@8 Let’s talk to the people in Iowa - 45% voted for Biden so perhaps we can reason with them. We only need another 5% to turn the State blue. Not Progressive blue, milquetoast blue. One place to start is health care. A lot of Trump voters like the idea of a governmental option - an expansion of Obamacare. Think about policies and programs that would appeal to the populist mindset. These are basically the same people that were socialists during the 1930s.
"But what I ask is: Why should I try to reason with people who refuse not to be wrong?"
Classic elitism. Truly these poor slobs you refer to need to be silenced. They are a waste to humanity and interfere with the future progressive society.
What is this Charles? The introduction to your version of 'Mine Kamp'?
"Why, indeed, do they not make the effort to understand the people in the bubbles?"
Just ask the question in reverse and you will get your answer.
Everyone commenting on this and Charles' "Trump won" post should read the comments here:
An insightful commenter provided the link. The people commenting on the NR article are the political mirror of the typical SLOG commenter. Neither will listen to the other side. The question is what to be done about the people who don't fall into either camp.
"Why don't you just try talking to them?"
Um, is this a problem a lot of liberal have? A lot of liberals haven't tried talking to conservatives? I know I've tried, over and over, and it's been a somewhat traumatic history of abuse. At some point you decide to communicate with people receptive to communication, not adversarial trolls, or you live a pretty bad life. And at some point, you acknowledge that the gulf between your understanding of the world and someone else's understanding of the world won't be bridged by conversations, that certain patterns emerge, and that many people who seem to attempt to engage with "oppositional ideologies" are really just propagating weaponized faux-centerism.
On top of this, we've all been taught that we can't engage in discussions about our beliefs with people we know. We can't talk to our families about it because it could cause a rift and "family is more important" and we can't talk to our friends because "that's not polite conversation". So we end up arguing in the comments section with people who aren't changing their mind. If, as a nation, we had decided we could talk about hard things, and address obvious wrongdoing in an honest way, maybe we could have these discussions. Right now, we can't change what our nation was taught but we can begin engaging in hard conversations, if not "across ideologies" than within our "bubbles" which contain plenty of ideologies anyway, and plenty of things to fix. Then, when people come into the "bubbles" (as they do and will continue to do) or as people leave them, they will be more prepared to have conversations when they are important, instead of just feeling uncomfortable.
However, in all this, we've lost that some people here have histories of trauma, and asking them to spearhead facing their abusers is neither fair nor particularly productive to stopping the abuse. And when their allies sanction that abuse by attempting to "compromise and communicate" with the abusers, it doesn't really help anyone. Our country was founded on racial and gender/sexuality based abuse, it's literally built into the foundations, and we have to confront that it's both wrong and still common, despite very tangible progress from those exceptionally dark realities, and we can't move forward and accept "compromise" on abuse. We can accept compromise on many things, but not that.
"Hey fellow Americans, we need to have tough conversations and face the history of trauma and racism in this country, so that we can begin to heal and move forward. Many individuals have made progress in this area, but our entire system has been built on oppression. Let's change that. "
HALF OF AMERICANS: " That never happened and there's no problem. You're making this up. Stop whining."
"OK, I see why you might think that, but there's a lot of evidence to the contrary, and many Americans who are sharing their first-hand experiences with this..."
HALF OF AMERICANS: "Fuck your feelings, Marxist scum."
I do find it interesting, at the very least, that urban liberals have not been able to counter the right-wing narrative of being an out-of-touch cohort with "elitist" values that are so far removed from understanding the rural US. When the facts clearly show much larger percentages of urbanites are from rural, and exurban areas than people with urban upbringings leaving for the rural life. Most urbanites are acutely familiar with the rural ways, its why we left more often then not. Think about how many urban living people leave to regularly visit family and friends in rural areas with little-to-no hesitation compared to the amount of people you know who wouldn't dare step foot into the "Socialist Hell-Hole" that is Seattle (that just so happens to be the tax-payer sugar mommas subsidizing the rest of the state), or express at least a deep-seated fear of whatever local media sensationalized the night before happening to them. Baffling. Seattleite's not caring how they're perceived is not arrogance. Bewilderment and sympathy are characterized as contempt. Rural United State's obsession with thinking they're looked down upon is based much more on insecurity I can only imagine. How else could there be such despise for a way of life that they, statistically, know a lot less about?
Rural (Eastern) Washington does worry and need the taxes raised in richer Western Washington but they also feed us and a lot of the World. I'm not sure why anyone would think that ranching and agriculture should dry up just to punish them or what. I think their fear is progressives will dry up Capitalism in the west with the demands of other people's money. Take Capitol Hill Trader Joe's as a recent example, classic Mafia Shakedown. They see a future that would bring economic depression on both sides of the Cascades. Rural Washington will never produce the Tax Revenue of big tech companies of the West but they will feed us and a lot of the rest of the world.
What I'm trying to say is we need each other. Life is like that. Who you vote for or if you go to church or not doesn't matter.
@16 Nah. We’re a port city, if Eastern Washington doesn’t want to do business some other ship will come into harbor. Fine, we can go on subsidizing Eastern Washington with far nicer roads than we have to use for all this commerce, but stop acting like you can’t be replaced just like so many other livelihoods.
"This is our bubble. We want science to determine..."
Charles must not be acquainted with educated urban types that go all in on new agey bullshit, much of it not supported by science in any way. Do you think yokels in the midwest are buying up Gwyneth Paltrow's more dubious goop products? Or are the driver for the many supplements available at Whole Foods, especially homeopathy products? I have heard many an educated person talk about 'toxins' and endless stupid diets that were supposed to rid one of these 'toxins'. One of my favorite sports is to ask those 'going off gluten' for specific reasons why they are doing so - instead of an articulate, science-based answer I get some kind of 'well I hear its bad for you yada yada yada' crap. When it comes to health and beauty products, many an educated, urban female will toss science aside and open up their bank account for unproven products.
Advertisers and marketing professionals are counting on this variant of human stupidity to sell a ton of useless products.
I wouldn't go so far as to say there should be no conversation with rural rubes, but their factual ignorance should definitely be criticized as such, and unapologetically. Those same rural rubes that wish to be placed above criticism, and think that everyone else must work to understand them, think it just fine for them to criticize others. In fact, they never tire of going on about how all their problems are caused by the elites in big cities. And strangely, a real estate tycoon from NYC who inherited his wealth is not considered an elite.
I would be happy to stop subsidizing Trump voters at any time with my tax payments. I’d rather fund safe injection sites and my own roads.
The contempt is palpable. Shameful. A complete waste of time and effort.
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