Slog AM: GOP Backs Attempted Coup, SCOTUS Hears Dumb ACA Suit, Study Finds COVID Linked to Mental Health Problems

Comments

1

̀ Why were the polls off? ́
Existing polls rely on a 20th Century model of data collection, and the samples those models collect are not representative. Phone-based polls have become less reliable due to technology changes alone. How to improve that? I dunno, but plenty of statisticians kicking around out there.

2

Recall that Gallup-style polls are are only slightly more sophisticated than Straw Polls.

3

It's always amusing when the study of history unravels popular misconceptions and makes the history even more fascinating.

4

Republicans are right, the election was not free or fair yet again. That's because 1) republicans continuously engage in voter suppression, and 2) rural votes are carry disproportionately more weight than urban ones. No matter what happens they'll always play the victim card though.

5

I'm as happy about the results as anyone else but let's not pretend Republicans are doing something unsavory by complaining about the election results. Representative Jayapal attempted to overturn the results in Congress in 2016 but protesting the Electoral College. Is she a nazi as well? So much hyperbole and vitriol in all Rich's posts. I did find some enjoyment in seeing the Recall Sawant ad above his byline though. Kudos to whoever did that. The Stranger must be truly desperate for ad revenue to risk incurring the wrath of their favorite demagogue.

6

@5. They aren't complaining about the election results, they are buying into a false coup attempt by fabricating evidence from the top down, firing or refilling the positions of those who won't go along with it, and fanning the flames of their most batshit supporters to back up their refusal to concede power with violence and intimidation. Legal challenges are fine but this is a totally illegitimate smoke and mirrors show to rally up the psychos and butthurt shitbags who just want an excuse to hurt those they hate because they can't face reality and would rather live with alternative facts. Get real you stooge.

7

Delegitimizing the election and destroying the government from the inside is the next step in the Republinazis's coup d'tat against America. They've shamelessly stolen the Supreme Court and stuffed it with self-righteous partisan hacks. Prezinazi AntiChrist, Moscow Mitch, Bill Barrf, Miss Lindsey Grayuhm--they're crazy, lying traitors, and they're all in on it.

I just smashed the donate button on $500 to Stacey Abrams's Fair Fight, and another $250 each to the campaigns of Jon Ossoff and Raphael Warnock. This is a national emergency: We have to give til it hurts and get out the vote!

We cannot let them get away with this. Even $10 helps if we all give! Act Blue makes it super-easy.

https://fairfight.com/fair-fight-2020/

8

@5: Here's that cringing event:

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/rep-pramila-jayapal-tried-to-stop-trump-from-becoming-president-joe-biden-shut-her-down-theyve-come-full-circle/

@6: "They aren't complaining about the election results"

Of course they are, but I'll settle for a distinction without a difference.

9

@9. Jayapal did something completely different, so that makes what Barr et all are doing okay. Talk about a distinction without a difference.

To clarify for your dumbass (really, not for you at all who isn't even worth a neuron to respond to because of your trolling ways, but for the idiots who may see what you say and believe it), they are not just making a bona fide legal complaint, they are fabricating "evidence" to do as I stated.

10

@9 was meant for 8, obviously. But if you didn't realize that, well, I might as well be wasting my breath.

11

@5 you really are a pathological moron.

Jayapal never accused Trump of unfounded election fraud. Nor did the Democrats hire lawyers to petition state courts and legislators to essentially secretly appoint new electors after the election. This is what Trump is doing. Then he fired military chiefs he thinks are disloyal when he refuses to step down.

It is literally a coup.

What Jayapal did was seek sanctions on electors who went public BEFORE the god damned election and said they were not going to vote.

So fuck off.

Everyone else: ignore this trolling piece of shit. Let him post his inane screeds in the void until he eventually gets deleted again.

12

We’re barely a month out from a bunch of far right lunatics plotting to kill 2 governors over their covid response, not to mention the completely deranged conspiracy theories consuming the mainstream right, and all you credulous “both sides” clowns are acting like it’s nbd for the president to refuse to concede because he thinks the election was stolen from him. You people never learn.

The only consolation is that these people are too stupid to do any serious harm — so far, at least — but the damage to our democratic institutions will be with us for generations.

13

I am so fucking tired of all of the enabling and coddling of Trump. Enough! He fucking lost. And every Republican supporting his unsubstantiated, baseless, bullshit railing against the election outcome needs to be held accountable for their treason. Jesus Fucking Christ even if Trump could (in his fantasy land of a freak show of whatever the fuck is going on in his head) "win" PA, HE WOULD STILL LOSE THE ELECTION.

EVERYONE, EVERY SINGLE DAMN BODY IN WASHINGTON D.C. NEEDS TO PUT AN END TO THIS BULLSHIT NOW. NO MORE TALK. NO MORE BULLSHIT. Stop giving the Trump administration any attention, any air time, any media coverage, anything at all. Contact the law firms bringing forth these baseless and frivolous lawsuits (they know damn well it is against the law to do that - let's put pressure on them and all of their clients to ensure that they know that enabling this bullshit will cost them). They deserve to be swiftly and severely punished for their involvement. Why the fuck should they be able to keep their law degrees or stay in business? FUCK THAT. I am beyond, so fucking beyond, able to tolerate anymore bullshit from this insane clown posse.

I have contacted every person who might have any power or is involved in this charade that I can possibly think of to express these thoughts. Trump wants to burn down the country on his way out? I say US FIRST. TIE HIM UP, PUT A GODDAMN SOCK IN HIS MOUTH, FORCIBLY REMOVE HIM FROM THE WHITE HOUSE ALONG WITH ALL OF HIS MINIONS AND BE DONE WITH THIS SHIT ALREADY.

Oh that's not normal? We have to wait until January? WHY? Trump has refused to the job of POTUS from day one. He can be forced out now. If the people working in our federal government had any fucking integrity they would GET RID OF THIS ASSHOLE TODAY. 72 more days of this bullshit is not sustainable.

14

The Slog is really on fire this morning. You would think Biden lost the election reading some of the flames coming out of your nostrils. Trump and his pals can kvetch all they want but let's not make this into something more. You are watching the flailings of a narcissist not some coup against the republic. There is zero chance any of this will lead to any changes in the outcome and on Jan 20th there will be a peaceful transition of power as there has always been.

15

The thing that really, really pisses me off is that I was a poll observer in PA and the accusation that the vote was rigged is extremely offensive.

The vote in PA was free and fair. ALL candidates had the right to poll watchers and both Republics and Democrats took advantage of that.

I don’t mind the court challenges as I know what I saw. I mind being called a fraud over and over again. Fuck their gaslighting, we did our job right.

16

@14. If enough people take that for granted, it will never happen. You're part of the problem.

17

For those who lack the ability to identify context clues:

If enough people take that (the peaceful transition of power) for granted (and thereby dismiss the psychotic and unprecedented actions Trump and his enablers are taking), it (the peaceful transition of power) will never happen (on January 20, 2021). You're part of the problem (taking the peaceful transition of power for granted).

18

@11 - Well, as the former president of the Senate, former VP, and president-elect - Joe Biden said "there's no debate". At that late date, it couldn't be anything more than a hail mary. Cringing (@8) isn't the right word. But bless Pamala's heart for trying (and I voted for her).

19

It's at times like this I really, really, really wish we had at least one Senator with a fighting spirit.
Murray and Cantwell collectively don't have enough voice to fog a mirror.

22

Bro, this is amateur hour shit. If you are going to steal an election, steal the whole thing. Next time get the senate too.

23

@16 you don't have to take it for granted but let's not issue a call to arms until there is an actual threat. Did you honestly expect Trump was going to go quietly into the night? There is no way his ego would ever allow that so of course he is going to fire a bunch of people and of course he is going to tweet and shout into the void. I see no evidence that all his crazy is going to change anything. Despite what you and the rest of your ilk maintain we do not live in 1930's Germany and there is no Reichstag to light on fire. In many ways you are the ones that are playing into his hands by letting him continue to dominate your thoughts and actions. Take a minute to fucking celebrate and then realize the most damaging thing you can do to a narcissist is deny them the attention they crave.

24

@14: It's definitely time for less vitriol and more popcorn. Watching Trump hurl temper tantrums and fire people (many of whom will resign ahead of a new administration anyway, and one of whom had already drafted a resignation letter) makes for great comic relief as we watch COVID case numbers climb to new heights daily (!) and consider what each of us can do to help "Build Back Better."

Meanwhile, @13, throwing around extremist talk of our own helps nothing:

"Contact the law firms bringing forth these baseless and frivolous lawsuits (they know damn well it is against the law to do that - let's put pressure on them and all of their clients to ensure that they know that enabling this bullshit will cost them)."

Filing "baseless and frivolous lawsuits" is not actually illegal. It could lead to career-crippling ethics problems for the attorneys involved, but it's not legally actionable. Any citizen who honestly believes there were problems with elections should act within our laws, including within our legal system, to address those beliefs.

"We have to wait until January? WHY?"

Because that is what our Constitution requires.

If, on 20 January, the Secret Service actually has to haul Trump and his trashy brood out of the White House and dump them bodily in Black Lives Matter Square, so much higher the entertainment value. Sure, it'll delay cleaning COVID from the White House by a few days, but in the modern world, the incoming people can work from home during that time.

25

@20 the left didn't accept the result of Trump? Are you fucking kidding me? President Obama hosted Dump and Melanoma in the White House right after the election and numerous times afterwards. There was a civil, decent. normal transition of power.

There is absolutely no reason to let the challenges play out because they are baseless and it is a crime (add it to the x number of crimes Dump has committed while in office, but you know the lawyers should not only know better but flat out refuse to get involved, if they like being lawyers) to file lawsuits with no evidence other than Dump's fucking flat out insane refusal to accept reality.

Fuck that noise.

This bullshit needs to be shut down and shut down hard.

26

Underestimate the power of these people to do evil at your peril.
The president is not conceding.
The Vice-President is not conceding.
Majority leader of the Senate is not conceding.
The head of the Justice Department is not conceding.
Today the Secretary of State said, when asked, “There will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration.”
70% of Republicans now believe the election was stolen.

This is going to get really serious really quickly.

27

Fuck, ya'll, I think we're in real trouble now. Turns out Trump was playing 12-D chess this whole time and worked with high ranking operatives to insure that only the REAL ballots were printed with a radioactive watermark, and now his plan is all coming together!

https://gnews.org/535064/

I can only assume his behavior these past four years was all part of the plan as well. Play and convincingly act as the stupidest buffoon to ever inhabit the planet every single day, all in an effort to lead us to believe he was far too incompetent to complete any task so complex as operating a can opener, let alone pulling off the most sophisticated sting operation in the history of the world. Check, and Chessmate, L-tards!

28

The Presidential Election Was Legitimate. Conspiracies Are Not.
Debunking the right’s most viral claims of fraud.

https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/the-presidential-election-was-legitimate?utm_source=pocket-newtab

29

The longer the current (mis)administration drags things out, including their petulant refusal to provide the incoming administration with the necessary resources to effectively conduct their transition, they simply provide the GOP with more "ammunition" in the form of "this new administration is so inept they couldn't even handle a simple thing like a peaceful transfer of power", as if it was somehow Biden's fault that the shit-gibbons currently running the zoo refused to fulfill their Constitutionally mandated duties.

This is SOP for the Republican Party: blame the opposition for problems they themselves caused, because they know the credulous, slack-jawed rubes who continue to support them will eat it up without even once questioning their completely unfounded allegations - which is all that matters to them.

30

@ 14,

The end game of of Republinazi fascists like Ted Cruzless, et al, is to enrage their psychotic, heavily armed, despicable supporters, and goad them into assassinating Democratic politicians, people of color, LGBTQ Americans and everyone else they hate and and feel compelled to conquer.

They are the same as the fascists in Romania, Yugoslavia, and yes, Nazi Germany, who convinced enough people to carry out atrocities under the obscene, heretical delusion that their god is always on their side.

And just as just as everyday people became horrifying monsters in those failed states, the Tr666p-QAsshole cult will here as well if we don’t stop them somehow.

31

@5 And history has shown Representative Jayapal was right on the money, and Republican voter suppression should have been legal grounds to keep that incompetent sociopath out of the White House.

32

@23. I'll celebrate and sleep well and ignore Trump when he's out of the White House and his enablers are in chains.

33

Well, that didn't go as planned: Observers Trump asks to scope out election fraud find no such case

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/11/10/1994635/-Well-that-didn-t-go-as-planned-Observers-Trump-asks-to-scope-out-election-fraud-find-no-such-case

And to make matters worse for the persistent yet sore loser, the same international observers his administration invited to scope out alleged systematic election fraud found no such sign of deceit, according to a preliminary report The Wall Street Journal obtained.

34

@32 hear hear!!!

36

@35 He can't run in 2024 or 2028, whether he is dead or not. I do hope I am still alive when he drops dead. In fact, other than being able to see my 50th birthday, it's what I'm living for, tbh.

37

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo refused to accept Joe Biden’s victory as President-elect, saying at the State Department Tuesday that “there will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration."

'The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.'

Also:

'Accuse the enemy of that which you are most guilty'

https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1325951831667699712

38

@37: But wait, there's more!

https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1326254175714488328

40

In DBZ, cell (the ultimate narcissist) loses his perfect form when soundly defeated by Goku's son, Gohan. But, instead of killing him, Gohan, convinced of his victory, tells him to give up and toys with him. Cell, in his desperation, instead of conceding defeat, uses what is left of his power to inflate his body in a massive destruction powerful enough to blow up the entire planet Earth. It might be a cartoon, but art imitates life, and I wouldn't put it past Trump to do something just as insane to defend his and his cults' delicate and brittle egos from tasting the bitter truth. These are not honorable men, they are thugs and mobsters who only negotiate in bad faith.

Only fools lower their guard when they've got their desperate and dirty-fighting opponent on the ropes before the bell.

41

RE: Man shoots daughter

"The man was locking up a handgun at home in Edmonds when the gun went off."

"Went off?" Guns do not spontaneously "go off."

The man was locking up a handgun at home in Edmonds and then he fired it and struck his daughter. Either he pulled the trigger with his finger or he allowed something else to pull the trigger.

Stop with these fucking weasel words. He fired his gun at his daughter. Period.

42

Honestly I may have changed my mind on the Democrats. If they can steal an election in Georgia without the Republican Secretary of State figuring out how they did it they are smarter than I’ve given them credit for and truly deserve to win.
Next time just go all the way and cheat for the senate too.

43

@41: No, he didn't fire his gun at his daughter. Did you overlook this sentence in the article?

"The round passed through a wall and struck the child in the arm, officers said."

45

@ 23,

You do realize that’s exactly what the Jews that weren’t lucky enough to escape from Germany and Poland were saying right up until they were loaded into the cattle cars for a one-way trip to Auschwitz and Treblinka.

We’ve all seen the screaming, red-faced, gun-toting, beer-gut bubbas on TV shrieking about Tr666p, their white trash AntiChrist messiah. There’s no question that there’s jobs as concentration camp guards in their futures.

46

Those darn guns, always just going off and shooting people. Just like those darn cars and trucks, always squishing people. Oh well, what can you do?

47

A gun cannot shoot someone on its own. Gun nuts have been helpfully reminding us for years that "guns don't kill people!!!!" but when a gun nut shoots someone without the alleged intent to do so, suddenly they are passive bystanders in possession of an inanimate object that has gained sentience and a thirst for blood.

The guy shot his daughter. He was consciously handling a gun, and through his own actions that may or may not be up for debate in a court of law, expelled a bullet out of the gun's chamber and into his daughter's arm.Whatever his intentions were, he shot her. This is how shooting works.

48

@21 - I must have missed where The Stranger or any of the commenters here criticized the deputies. That said, just because they were almost certainly justified doesn't mean all cops who shoot are, tho. I mean, you seem to be saying that since those cops were right to shoot, all cops are always right to shoot.

But hey, speaking of cops, how 'bout that police chief in Arkansas who was inciting death and destruction of Democrats! Now, that shit was cool!

49

@47: True, and when a driver doesn't see a pedestrian jaywalking across Aurora and kills her, then logic dictates that he drove into her and killed her.

Your point is?

51

@40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ES7ErsP8L8

52

@45 I think your tin foil hat is on too tight

53

49 ppl use the passive voice when they are trying to weasel out of accountability thx for the extra example

If my point is so obvious why are you mad at it

55

@53: I get mad at the coy inference of intention when it it is clearly not provable in the situation. Just like what happens when a rouge cop sees a gun that was never there and kills a black man.

56

@47

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2uk3ww

58

@39 no he is not term limited. He is, however, going to be prosecuted my Attorney General Letitia James of New York and he will either go to prison for his crimes or he will flee the country. And the countries where he is most likely to go (where white people live, where they speak English, and where his properties exist) all have extradition agreements with the United States. Russia won't have him and he's too fucking racist to live in North Korea or China. That leaves Saudi Arabia since he has no money, it's unlikely he's be welcome there either.

There is also the very real (not pretend, not wishful thinking) fact that he is severely mentally and physically ill and could drop dead before 2024.

59

55 intention doesn't matter, at least outside the courts. my point is he's still responsible bc everything that happened wrt to the gun was a direct consequence of choices he made. Bringing a gun into your home drastically increases the probability that someone you care about will get shot, and those chances spike every time you handle it. These are all choices he actively made and he ended up shooting his daughter, (probably) unintentionally.

At best his negligence -- also a choice! -- brought harm to a bystander, and when we say things like "the gun went off" or "a bullet passed through the wall and into her arm" we perpetuate the belief that none of this is his responsibility -- these things just happen, who could have guessed, etc, even though he made a number of choices that could have easily ended with him killing his daughter.

61

My point is that he fired the gun and the bullet from the gun that he fired hit his daughter.

The gun didn't shoot his daughter, he did. (And yes I noted @57, concedes that fact)

Criminal intent or accident, the facts are the facts: guns don't kill people, people kill (or injure) other people. The gun didn't go off, he shot her.

62

@60. Why could it be 2016 all over again if Harris is the likely standard bearer for the D's?

63

@58: He could reach a settlement with state AGs and remain comfortable pouting and putting in his resorts. I hope he looses Mar-a-Lago and it becomes a museum or returned to the descendants of Marjorie Merriweather Post.

65

if Biden dies, Harris will be POTUS.
If Harris runs for POTUS, it will not be like 2016.
People's irrational hatred of Hilary Clinton has nothing to do with Harris.

As for Trump - Letitia James has broad power to go after him and end all of his businesses.
I am not a lawyer, but here's an article that can be used as a place to start
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/ny-s-attorney-general-one-most-powerful-nation-should-worry-n985086

Trump will get away with his federal crimes. He already has. Employees of his have been charged and prosecuted and even convicted for crimes Trump has committed all along (Hatch Act and emoluments to name two). Our country is totally fucking stupid and will allow him to get away with what he has done because white men believe that white men shouldn't be held accountable for their crimes - not even treason.

Trump is deeply ill. He has gotten used to an immense amount of attention and money at his disposal. Without it he will literally not be able to function. He has declined mentally and physically in the last 4 years. His mental decline will hasten and he is still (despite mistaken belief) not immune to COVID-19 nor safe from getting it again or suffering from any of the ever expanding list of consequences and side effects (including brain damage and strokes).

66

@43:

And, as @41 quite correctly pointed out, the round didn't simple eject itself through the barrel of the gun - someone or something has to engage the trigger to make that happen. So, while he was handling the weapon - evidently not very well - either through accident or ineptitude the trigger was pulled and dropped the firing pin which struck the primer, thus igniting the gunpower inside the shell casing and propelling the bullet out through the barrel, which just happened to be pointed in the direction of his child. Now, while it's entirely likely this was not done deliberately, he did in point of fact fire his gun at his daughter; if he had not done this she would not have been shot because, as the NRA has told us time and again: guns don't shoot people, people shoot people.

68

@64:

Except that we regulate the ever-living shit out of ONE of those objects, and at-best tacitly regulate (while perpetually turning a blind eye to the trauma and damage regularly caused) by the OTHER.

69

@67. So you are saying that women can't win the presidency (at least the USA) because of sexism and that we have to appease white male Republicans to win elections because voters are human?

71

@24, you've obviously never been on the sticky end of a motion for sanctions under Rule 11 of the FRCP. They can be very expensive, in addition to any game misconduct penalties the judge hands out.

72

@20. Wrong. We accepted the result. We rejected the man as unfit. Obama didn’t refuse to leave. Clinton didn’t refuse to concede.

Fuck you piles of shit normalizing a coup in broad god damned daylight. You have no idea where it’s might go, you morons.

74

Will you want suits ignore this fucking gun nut already. Christ. He’s not well.

75

@64,

I'm not in favor of mass banning guns, but I AM in favor of making legally owning one at least as difficult as owning a driver's license. Have to prove competence, have to have insurance, have to be re-certified occasionally, etc.

I am also in favor of removing or restricting the rights/privileges of people who show negligence with both cars and guns.

Shoot your kid while messing around with your gun? You lose your gun rights until you take classes and pass competency test (or something). Run over your kid because you're not paying attention? Lose your license until you take classes and pass competency test. Shit, we already do that with cars anyway. Get caught speeding too much? License suspended. But kill your kid (or anyone) because you're not competent with your gun? Thoughts and prayers.

I'm not in favor of banning guns, but the 2nd amendment is a plague on this country.

76

@73. So 2600 kids out of 74.1 million in the USA or 0.0000351% are backed over by parents at home per year. That is tragic and there's always room for improvement, but you wouldn't say those parents (accidently or otherwise) didn't back their car over their kids if they didn't realize they were doing it.

77

@75. The party of personal responsibility sure seems to cherish the right to be negligent because freedom over safety.

78

@71: My statement @24 was to correct xina's claim that filing of frivolous lawsuits is illegal. It is not, but an attorney who knowingly files one could face other penalties. I was vague as to what those might be, but you added some details. Thank you for that.

(My knowledge of this comes from the lawsuit Delvonn Heckard filed against then-Mayor Murray, which -- after massive fanfare -- was dropped at the last possible moment. While Heckard would gladly have perjured himself for the slightest chance of grabbing $100K, I assumed the lawsuit was dropped because his lawyers would not risk a Rule 11 violation for themselves.)

79

@54 - Just because an act is legal doesn't mean it is just or right. I know for a fact, since I have seen it, that cops sometimes shoot when it is not truly necessary. They may have been justified (sometimes barely) by the letter of the law, but their actions were not just. They were not right.

Pedantic cop apologists seem not to be able to grasp that distinction. But that is the distinction that prompts criticism and protest.

82

80 - I was a cop in Texas, not WA, so I'm not familiar with that statute. I looked it up, but googling is a sketchy way to understand the nuances of a law. There's the context of definitions (listed elsewhere in the PC), how they relate to criminal procedure codes, case precedents that come into play, etc.

There's a reason lawyers spend years learning and litigating this stuff...and I'm not a lawyer.

That said, it appears to be overly broad in what deadly force it justifies. Most state statutes are. They assume judicial or civil review will sort out what meets their loose standards of justification and what do not.

Study after study has shown that DA's are extraordinarily reluctant to charge officers regardless of how appropriate doing so may be, and juries are equally reluctant to convict officers for on-duty uses of force...to an extent far greater than would be the case with anyone not a cop. That's starting to change, but only just.

Generally, use of deadly force statutes should mandate more specific definitions of what constitutes necessary use of deadly force. And it should spell out that use of such force be "necessary," not "justifiable." There is a difference.

Less-lethal alternatives should be mandatory if available and if they don't place anyone in danger of death/serious bodily injury. That needs to include tactical and temporary retreat, if appropriate. Cops push bad situations into deadly force use all the time, when simply backing away and containment would be safe and available.

Quick example: Recently, a cop near me shot a guy in the kitchen of his own home for grabbing a knife on a domestic call. Everyone else was out of the house already. In that case, let him have the fucking house, retreat out, cover it off and have Tactical talk him out.

Another quick example just off the top of my head is shooting at people in vehicles. Cops use the justification of "fear of being struck by vehicle" all the time, and it's usually horseshit. Most often, if you have time to draw your weapon, take aim and fire, you have time to get the fuck out of the way. And honestly, if you were truly afraid of being hit (I've been there more than once...and was even hit once), than you are desperately trying to get the fuck out of the way. You're not worried about drawing a bead on the driver.

That "justification" by officers is widely and commonly abused...and it needs to be severely tightened up.

To suggest wording and keep giving examples would take more time than I'm willing to commit here on a day-old thread. And it would take a team of lawyers to do it right anyway.

83

@81,

I just mean there are at least some penalties from inappropriate driving that lead to you losing your license.

Not so with guns, unless you're convicted of a felony.

You can harass and intimidate black kids in Florida and if a fight starts, you can kill them and still get to keep your guns.

86

@85,
My primary issue is that the SCOTUS has essentially decided that the 2nd amendment means everyone's allowed to have guns and there are VERY few restrictions to that.

I really don't think the founders intended the 2nd to be what SCOTUS has interpreted it to be (though I don't entirely think they'd disagree either). What they wanted was to ensure that federal government couldn't stop the states from having their own military--to defend said state AGAINST the federal government!

How times have changed, right?!?

87

@84 - I'd bet any amount of money that in those 11 states, cops are exempted from the duty to retreat. Listen, I would qualify as an expert witness myself, and the case I cited with the knife was not necessary, period. The cop's back was to the front door, and the suspect was backed into a dead-end of sorts in the galley kitchen.

Easy, easy retreat for the officer. Dude didn't even charge the officer, just picked the knife up off the counter 15 feet away with an open escape route for the officer. I've been in far, far more threatening situations with guys with knives, and we backed away, and everyone lived.

Well-trained officers...check that; well-disciplined officers...do that; trigger-happy ones do not. And there are way too many trigger-happy cops out there. I know this first-hand. Our laws allow them to be trigger-happy.