We Cannot Negotiate with the Virus on Indoor Dining

Comments

1

It is wholly unethical to go out to eat during a pandemic. It is not necessary. Restaurants and everyone who works at them need to wrap their heads around the fact that these businesses need to close, possibly for years. And I say this as someone whose sibling has worked in the food industry her entire life and is the GM at two independent restaurants in MA. She doesn't want to hear it either.

It is one thing to provide food services to those in need like World Central Kitchen is doing (or take out if you consider that providing food to those in need), but there are still ethical considerations. WCK is attempting to prevent people from starving to death during a worldwide pandemic and also all of the catastrophic natural disasters happening during this pandemic.

Even grocery shopping has ethical ambiguity, especially when certain people can pay other people to shop for them while other people have to show up and work in the grocery stores, earning minimum wage, forced to deal with assholes who won't wear masks and spending their days being exposed to the risk of COVID for minimum wage.

2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVA7MDQr1Nc

3

The virus doesn't care what your excuse is, or your religion, or how badly you need the money that you will kill your customer's relatives for it.

And if you have an outdoor tent it better have two open sides or it's dangerous.

4

'they' say to limit Exposure to 30 min or less so
order first* and eat it quick preferably on the
porch and not directly Downwind from your
nearest hopefully not gasping neighborx.

and any Virus that won't negotiate's
Never met trumpf our hair furor
who can DENY that shit Away.

see?
he recovered.

*by telephone or the gal who's always busy listening -- Siri?

5

I guess we\they don't need
to be gasping to be contagious...

"... people have to show up and work in the grocery stores, earning minimum wage, forced to deal with assholes who won't wear masks and spending their days being exposed to the risk of COVID for minimum wage." --@Xina

we must be insane to have let it come to this.
we must feel we deserve it
or wtf?

6

OK, first of all, the we-have-to-balance-the-budget bullshit is just that. Bullshit. Every state (including Washington) goes into debt. They do so via bonds. That is what Washington should do.

Of course this should be handled at the federal level. But at some point, the states have to take the lead, and show the dipshit motherfuckers in the other Washington how its done. I'm looking at you, Inslee. You think you are ready to be president -- so act like it. Do something bold, and propose a funding package. Call a special session, and get it done.

Finally, it does suck to be laid off in November. It has happened to me more than once (for some reason companies like laying off people in November -- I think it is a budget thing). This has nothing to do with the holidays. It sucks because it is so fucking wet, and dark. Get laid off in June and you walk around the park. Get laid off in November, and you just have more time to mope around the house (especially this year -- you can't even hang out at the bar). This ain't Arizona. It sucks to be out of work anytime of year, but especially November.

Oh, and worse case scenario -- it is fucking cold. If you can't pay the rent, and end up living in your car, it really sucks this time of year.

7

" "Sen. ]Joe] Nguyen said he supports the Governor's decision to ban indoor dining given the information that has emerged since he signed the letter. (He said he signed before hearing Dr. Lofy talking about the limitations of the state's coronavirus data on restaurants.) Nevertheless, he added, "I [signed the letter] on purpose to raise eyebrows." "

well ya sure raised mine Sen. Joe.

"The concern I had," he continued, "was that there wasn't enough relief for the small businesses. If I had my way, I'd say it's fine to shut them down as long as you supplement the workers. I'd do what Colorado did and call a special session to pass a restaurant relief fund and pay for it with taxes on the wealthy."

(some of) the Money's out there but how
do we get Sen. McTurtleman to turn it Loose?

8

I would like to see the demographic of serious hospitalizations and fatalities; something no one is describing. As the number of positives versus the numbers of fatalities demonstrate, testing positive for the virus is not a death sentence. How many of positives result in little or no symptoms? Are we killing the economy to protect those who wouldn't go out to a restaurant in the first place? Would it be more accurate to close Olive Gardens and Applebees to protect the vulnerable and allow the How to Cook a Wolfs stay open? Just asking...

9

Yet another troll with the who cares who is dying because they don't matter anyway BS.

Of course those working in the restaurants are the ones that would have long term exposure to a large number of people, but who cares if they get sick, am I right? And who cares if they are sick and asymptomatic and spread the virus to the customers who go home and spread it to their families, too, right? I mean as long as only old and/or disabled people (who you believe don't go out to any other restaurant than some shitty chain) are dying, why the fuck should we care? DAMMIT WEEZ GOTS TO HAVE OUR FREEDUMBS TO EAT OUTZ AT NICE RESTER ANTS!!!

Here in Oregon the original projection was under 3000 cases and less than 100 deaths. Today they announced the 808th death (oh and some of those 808 deaths are children, teenagers, and people in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s - in addition to those expendables in their 70s, 80s, and 90s but that's an acceptable loss, am I right)?

Oregon's averaging 1000 new cases a day. After Thanksgiving and then after Christmas and then after New Year's Eve there will be an explosion of cases because there are so many assholes here screaming about how the governor isn't going to stop them from having a big family Thanksgiving, no siree! Just ask Tootie!

Of course your "logic" is not logical at all. But you know that. And you're full of shit regarding who is expendable, who is dying, and where they would choose to eat out. The drive thru line to the MAC DONALD'S here has been miles long for the entire pandemic and it sure as shit is not old people and sick people and disabled people that are going there 3X a day to chow down on that garbage they pretend is food.

As for the independent restaurants and food trucks where I live, well they are run by young people and where they are located in my county is where 90% of the COVID cases are. We had our first death in the county, too. 62 years old. Guy just had one year of retirement, then 2020 happened and he died the other day. But he's expendable right? I mean 62 years old and retired, the world is better off without his disposable ass still being here, am I right?

Fuck right off. Right off the planet. If only everyone who believes EVERYONE ELSE is expendable would just fuck off and die, this shitty pandemic would be 100% easier to live through.

10

Anybody know which restaurants Mullet owns so I can avoid them for the rest of my life, and advise my loved ones to do the same? If he's this cavalier on coronavirus, I'd expect poor food safety and sanitation in other areas.

11

@9: Your sanctimonious and self-righteous; which I'm told, mean almost the same thing; pompous screech illustrates why Trump received 73 million votes despite being history's greatest douchebag, why the Democrats couldn't flip the Senate, and why the Dems barely kept the House.

12

@11 Oooooh. Sanctimonious and self-righteous, those are big words for you, troll. If you actually knew what they meant, they are not, in fact, synonymous. But hey, who expects a troll to know these things (that can easily be looked up in a dictionary, even on the internet).

Tell yourself whatever soothes yourself.

Biden's nearling 80 MILLION votes. Trump's loss is the biggest in history by every metric and that loss happened DESPITE voter suppression, purging of voters, lies about mail in voting (which cost Trump the state of Georgia), destruction of and tampering with the United States Postal Service, and every other action taking to guarantee Trump a win. Trump's loss has everything to do with over a quarter of a million dead from COVID and counting and his depraved indifference to life. And he's losing (25 so far) all of his illegitimate and baseless legal proceedings that he has undertaken to overturn the election results because he can't understand how after all that interference assuring him a win, he fucking lost anyway.

The Senate race is not over yet and will most likely end with the two senators in GA having a D next to their names, but only time will tell. I mean the R candidates are also traitors who have committed insider trading.

However small a margin, the Democrats still hold the majority in the House.

Rationalizing your support of murder by COVID (which you started here) and celebrating the white supremacist terrorism and stupidity vote of over 70 million people (all those people who wear shirts that say things like FUCK YOUR FEELINGS) any way you like, doesn't change anything, not my opinion, nor the facts of the matter.

Your inflammatory, digressive, and extraneous commentary simply solidifies you are a troll.

13

@12: Thank you for solidifying my point."Your inflammatory, digressive, and extraneous commentary simply solidifies you are a troll." Try looking in the mirror.

14

@13 The more your comments are about me, the further proof you are an empty shell of nothing that has nothing of substance to say. This is not about me. But you keep making it about me. Keep on posting about me. Go ahead. It's worked out well for all the other trolls that have been banned from this site.

15

@14: Funny, all three of you inflammatory, digressive and extraneous comments (use of CAPs, insults and word count) have been about me, so again, look in the mirror. Enjoy your day!

16

@15 LOL. NO.

I know who I am. You seem to believe that repetitively telling me who I am will change me somehow or that you can put me in my place. Not happening. You began this with supporting the murder of people you consider expendable via COVID and then tried to make it about the election and when both things failed you began attacking me.

Fuck His Feelings: Trump’s a Loser and His Followers Are Whiners

White supremacists and their abettors have always acted on their most vicious impulses, only to then turn around and demand civility from those they egregiously harm. The people they hurt are told, again and again, to offer compassion to those who have never shown them a hint of empathy. Marginalized folks are supposed to grit their teeth and smile through the pain of legislative, psychological and physical assaults by folks who believe the definition of oppression is not getting everything they want. These folks see only their own pain. Other people’s suffering is invisible to them because they believe that’s just how things are supposed to be — it’s the natural order of things. Making America Great Again always meant preserving white supremacist patriarchy, and enacting state-backed and extrajudicial violence against those who who tried to end it.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fuck-his-feelings-trumps-a-loser-and-his-followers-are-whiners

17

Trump’s Closing Message to Seniors: I Don’t Care If You Die

Trump belittled the COVID-19 pandemic, arguing, “It affects elderly people.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/09/trumps-senior-voters-polls-covid-elderly.html

Today's stats:

United States
Coronavirus Cases:
12,190,464
Deaths:
259,564

18

There’s a Reason the Election Went So Smoothly

The positive outcome was not an accident. It was the product of officials from the federal judiciary and executive branch down to precinct-level poll workers scrambling to patch together fixes for the system. Private donors cut big checks to assist them, a practice that would be horrifying if the system became dependent on it, but helped in this unusual circumstance. Most important, voters found ways to cast their ballots, producing the highest turnout in American history.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/election-worked-surprisingly-well/617127/

20

From last month:

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19, by Age and Race and Ethnicity — United States, January 26–October 3, 2020

Overall, an estimated 299,028 excess deaths occurred from late January through October 3, 2020, with 198,081 (66%) excess deaths attributed to COVID-19. The largest percentage increases were seen among adults aged 25–44 years and among Hispanic or Latino persons.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm

and from May:

Here’s Who’s Dying From Covid-19 in the United States
Data and new research reveal all age groups are at risk, from children to middle age and beyond

https://elemental.medium.com/its-not-just-sick-old-people-who-die-from-covid-19-bc9251989bc8

21

@19 The issue is more complicated than most people want to acknowledge. Saying "murder by COVID" is like saying "murder by car". People die in motor vehicle accidents every day. So do we shut down the highways, the roadways and tell people not to drive? Are you willing to sacrifice your parents and grandparents, who are more susceptible to injuries in and vehicle collision, to keep the roads open? It's not a very good line of questioning. We know driving can be dangerous, so we look at the risks and work together and come up with rules to keep it as safe as possible and still allow people to travel, especially for work. Working in a high-tech job that allows you to work from home, you still have a paycheck, you still have insurance, you can still pay the rent, you can still buy groceries is lucky, but shutting down the economy, regardless of intent and feel-good emotions has an impact on many people who now can't pay their rent...

Are you willing to sacrifice your bank account and pay the rent of someone who now doesn't have a job? Are your willing to sacrifice your paycheck so a now unemployed parent can take their kid to the dentist after losing their health insurance? Are you going to sacrifice your time to stand in line at the Food Bank while the person looks for work?

Is COVID a simple life and death question? Or is their a way to protect the vulnerable without a total shutdown of the economy? First we would need to drill down and determine who is actually vulnerable and to what degree of risk. Is there a way to mitigate the risk? Is there a way to strike a balance? I haven't seen any discussions.

Many people who voted for Trump, I suspect looked at the Democrats and saw xina, incapable of seeing another viewpoint, instead shouting them down, making assumptions, belittling; and said "I'm voting Republican, even if it means Trump". I wasn't one of them, but I can see why they would.

22

There is actually a simple partial solution to keeping restaurants viable, reducing unemployment, bolstering food security, and increasing the success of critical contract tracing and quarantine compliance -- Oakland has been doing much of this this for months. It is an example of not pitting one groups interests against another group, but figuring out synergistic ways to benefit the public good. It also does not require legislative involvement, though with the obvious benefits of this system the legislature should jump at funding it.

(1) Push existing funding of food aid to restaurants to prepare & deliver meals.

(2) Re-hire restaurant staff to aid in preparation, packaging, and delivery (no use of gig economy delivery).

(3) Many counties utilize grocery vouchers that are used at national grocery chains to both encourage people who are (or suspected of) being COVID positive to quarantine and to offset food insecurity. Move all of these funds/vouchers to only support local restaurants.

(4) Use prepared meals food delivery as an extra incentive for people to quarantine.

(5) Use restaurant space as an additional distribution & delivery source for groceries.

(6) Many state & county workers who are on contract now doing pandemic mitigation work (e.g., contact tracing and providing information and services) get paid with Amazon gift cards for overtime work: switch this "perk" to vouchers for local restaurants.

24

xina, bravo. nothingimportant, you're outclassed and out-talked, take a seat.

25

If assistance from the Feds is going to be delayed, skinny or never arrive, that's the same as saying which industries should survive? For instance, state leaders may have to pick between hospitals and restaurants. It's brutal, but that's the hand that's been dealt, until there's a serious change in the dynamic inside the Beltway.

27

@21- no, we don't ban cars, but we do tell people that they can't drive them down the sidewalk with their eyes closed. And we require that they have working brakes and headlights to avoid accidents. We require those things regardless of how much money the owner has. We do NOT give people a pass on the rules that protect others just because their financial circumstances are hard.

Rather than allowing people to do whatever the fuck they want and endanger everyone around them to make a buck, we provide in other ways. We certainly don't do a great job of that, but it's the right approach. We have unemployment, PPP loans, extended Federal benefits for those out of work because of the pandemic, etc. And I'd wager that every one of the people here that you are bashing for wanting to "shut the economy down" would advocate for more of those things.

THAT is how we beat the pandemic. Fooling ourselves into thinking that we can somehow isolate the vulnerable and let everyone else get sick is not. It's insane. And BTW, your desire to protect patrons of Olive Garden and Applebee's pretty much outs you as a Trump fanboy.

28

That should of course be "selectively protect patrons of Olive Garden and Applebee's"