"Seattle’s pilot program has been providing free pumping services to the approximately 3,000 people living in RVs in King County, and spills have been reduced in half."

If we wanted to eliminate the other half of our sewage "spills" (a.k.a. intentional illegal dumping of raw sewage, some of which then flows into the Sound), we could simply enforce our laws against illegal dumping, illegal camping, and illegal parking of RVs. But that would mean treating all persons the same, instead of allowing the Homeless (TM) to exist outside of our laws.

Back in Mayor Murray's administration, there was a program which allowed RV campers to park on city-rented land. This was in service of the idea that Homeless (TM) persons wanted help in moving into permanent homes. Instead, it turned out that people who were happy to live here not paying rent or taxes were very happy to continue not paying rent or taxes and still living here, so the program was an expensive failure.

Oh well, live and not learn.

But hey, by ignoring our laws and spending more of our money, we halved the amount of raw sewage getting dumped on our city! Progress!

The law in its majestic equality forbids rich and poor alike from dumping raw sewage in the gutter.

‘ torch song’ was the best car wreck dumpster fire featuring adubbed blind pianist i’ve seen in ages !

@1 And because the city has banned parking enforcement for the past year, the majority of these RVs no longer function (per the ST interview of the unfortunate guy who has to go around pumping shit out of trash RVs). Not only do the RVs not run from having sat for so long and because they probably barely ran to begin with, the tanks leak liquid waste and so giant shit-bricks get stuck in the tanks. Probably the grossest interview I've ever read in the ST. But the city is cool with it, because covid, even if one occasionally explodes in West Seattle.

Uri Geller, working that long-con on the Kadabra card! ha

@1 and @2. Don't worry. As soon as the council reconvenes in Jan I'm sure they'll take up Herbold's affirmative defense ordinance so all the RV dwellers and tent campers can cite poverty/mental illness as the reason they are destroying the environment and remove any pretense that being good social citizens apply to them at all.

If you continue reading the rest of Matt's post though you'll see all we need to do is provide housing for all 12k homeless people on the streets and everything will be better. We can then ignore their mental issues and addiction. Of course I'm not sure what Matt's plan is when another 12k show up looking for their own free housing.

@5 Moral hazard to left of me, biohazard to right, here I am, stuck in the middle with you.

@6 You missed a golden opportunity to use "stuck in the middle with poo".

Hmmm...no RV campers in Bellevue. I wonder why? (Hint: Police enforce the law)

re: missing Monolith “… or that the monolith is still exactly where it was but it’s all of us who’ve disappeared.”

my thought exactly: well, kinda – it’s still Right There – we just cannot See it: with its Invisibility Cloak.

also: “Can this please be the end of fur farms?”

absolutely. let us rid ourselves of this primal Lust for other animals’ cozy skins, grown solely (and Inhumanely) for that vile purpose. But, which animals cozyish skins Are currently going to waste? You ask? Well – turkeys (and chickens! Billions just wasted! Except for for pillows jackets and such). let’s make Feathers Fashionable again. plus, they can keep us Toasty in the winter (Emperor penguins, anyone?) and quite cool in the summer.

"This is like government telling oil companies they no longer have to worry about the environment. The government will just clean it up for them." Auntie Fascist

Bingo! Plus, we fucking SUBSIDIZE them to a tune of c. $90,000,000,000.00 -- per year.

let's take Half of that $90,000,000,000.00 and subsidize our Homeless. Finally the Auntie Fascist comes up with a Good One. well done.

Trump’s Rallies Didn’t Pay Off For Him At The Polls, According To Data
Research has, however, linked his rallies to hundreds of COVID-19 deaths.

Communities that hosted Trump’s events “paid a high price in terms of disease and death,” the researchers concluded in a working paper.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-campaign-rallies-failure-ballots_n_5fc44359c5b63d1b770d3758

In contrast to the above: County investigators find no link between COVID-19 outbreaks and local protests

(referring to the months of Black Lives Matter protests in Portland, OR)

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/11/county-investigators-find-no-link-between-covid-19-outbreaks-and-local-protests.html

Why is it all the RW trolls want to put the homeless in jail for being homeless, but when you ask them to pay their fair share of the costs of incarcerating poor homeless people they don't want to do that?

"... conservatives are hell bent on thinning their own herd to own the libs... " --@blip

well, they've certainly Owned me!
keep it Up, Neocons! Fake 'prez'
has shown you How now it's just
up to You to keep all the Winning
going and Own all us dumb Libs!

good luck!
and RIP.
you've
earned
it.

I'm not really seeing why anyone is upset the city is spending $175,000 on these pump outs, they seem to work. Besides, compared with what the ESD losing over a half billion, this seems like a great use of money. That said, it's a bit annoying someone with a home who owns an RV is expected is expected to drive it down to Burien and pay the $3 to pump it out. This is of course far too bootstrappy for our homeless who need someone to come to them at a cost of $175 per pump out. Many of these RVs are actually rental units, owned by landlords, I'm not seeing why the city doesn't go after these landlords for the costs. They've never been shy about regulating and charging other landlords for such things.

Anyhow, the cost of the program is pretty small compared with the benefits and the other solutions would be more like wishful thinking. However, since someone can now have their RV pumped out for free by the city, how about enforcing the law against those who can't be bothered to pick up the fucking phone and make a call but instead still dump their raw sewage in the storm drains or just onto the street.

@15, they're also hell bent on sickening and killing as many other people as they can, too.

Case in point:
Ashley Grames. Oncology nurse at Salem Health in Oregon who posted a video on Tik Tok about how she doesn't wear a mask, travels, takes her kids to play dates, and thinks it's fucking hilarious. Fuck Oregon's surging COVID cases and deaths!

Salem Heath didn't even fire her fucked up sociopathic ass, they just put her on administrative leave. Hopefully all of the cancer patients she came into contact with sue her ass and Salem Health and both cease to exist. Salem Health needs to be held accountable for allowing her to work there (what the fuck don't they vet these people)? And Ashley Grames needs to have her license revoked and to be prosecuted not only for her depraved indifference to life, but also for flouting the law, endangering lives (including the lives of her children - who should be removed from her care as she is clearly an unfit and dangerous person who has no right or reason to be a parent).

She should never work again. Her life should be thoroughly destroyed. And if they did their due diligence they should work to find out how many people got sick and died because of her and charge her, prosecute her, and imprison her. Remember when spitting on people was hate crime during the height of AIDS hysteria? The same reasoning applies here. This white Karen bitch needs to find out that behavior has consequences. Her entire life needs to be destroyed. Forever.

The fact that this type of behavior is celebrated and videotaped is a direct result of Trump and his insane cult

"@19 -- 'Now imagine if we gave people who need homes … homes.'

Imagine magic money floating down from the sky to pay for all of this."

now Imagine
More empty Homes
than Homeless and wonder what/why tf.

@20:

And while billionaires and investment banks and brokerage houses reap the "rewards" of incredibly low tax rates by amassing more wealth than they know what to do with - aside from leveraging it into even MORE wealth - the RW nutters continue to complain how THEIR taxes have to pay for everything, and in particular things they personally don't think they should have to pay for: schools to educate someone else's kids, or fire departments to protect someone else's homes, or roads they never travel on, etc., etc. It's almost like they think they live in this pristine bubble where nothing outside of their property line has any impact on their lives whatsoever.

@20 you're right of course. I'm sure if the city council could only get their hands on Bezos billions they can solve all these problems. They have such a great track record of producing results. In the meantime it really is unfair for anyone to place any burden of societal norms for those seeking public assistance. Obviously the answer is to continue to enable and encourage anti social behavior as a form of punishment.

@25: You just never, ever tire of getting reminded that Amazon and Bezos support Mary's Place and other efforts, do you? You're like Trump, demanding every day to be reminded he lost.

@16: Why is it you never quote these "RW trolls" resenting paying for jails? I thought jails were the only government expense right-wingers ever liked?

Also, if you have a problem with my desire to have the laws enforced equally, please let me know what it is.

@5: " As soon as the council reconvenes in Jan I'm sure they'll take up Herbold's affirmative defense ordinance so all the RV dwellers and tent campers can cite poverty/mental illness as the reason they are destroying the environment and remove any pretense that being good social citizens apply to them at all. "

And, after doing that, the moment an RV parks in front of CM Herbold's house, she'll immediately start pushing groundless paranoid conspiracy theories about how her political enemies put it there. (She can also contact the police chief and demand the RV be removed immediately, but given what CM Herbold did to the last police chief who promptly complied with such a demand, I wish her the best of luck next time...)

With national eviction moratorium expiration a month away, millions face homelessness

Come year’s end, 6.7 million households—19 million Americans—will be at risk of immediate eviction, according to a report from the National Low Income Housing Coalition. In the coming month, the count could add up to far more than that.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/11/30/1999038/-With-national-eviction-moratorium-expiration-a-month-away-millions-face-homelessness

@28 I always enjoy your ad hominem attacks. They really do help round out your character in each of your posts. Maybe, just maybe that neither the market nor government can help people who do not want to be helped or are too far gone to help themselves. Letting those people continue to remain out in the cold, untreated and terrorizing the rest of society is not compassionate it is enabling. These cases probably comprise 40% of the homeless population and yet consume 95% of the resources. Seattle can not solve the global problem of homelessness but if we enforced our community standards many of these problem cases would move on to more lenient jurisdictions to continue living life as they please (that is why they are here after all) and then we could focus on those that actually want help.

@32 ah but here's thing about non tangible wealth that you overlook. It is all based on what someone thinks it's worth and scarcity. If Bezos were to have to liquidate his holdings to pay off your proposed wealth tax the influx of shares in the market would drive down the price of Amazon stock which would it turn lower his wealth. Bezos nor the government will never derive the true value of that wealth.

I agree with you that Bezos has too much wealth by the way. The problem isn't him, its that Amazon has too much value. Regulate Amazon the way it should be, split off AWS so they can't use it to subsidize their retail operations, forbid Amazon from directly competing with merchants and what will happen is that wealth will flow from Amazon to other capital opportunities and that in turn will lead to higher tax collections.

@1 "we could simply enforce our laws against illegal dumping, illegal camping, and illegal parking of RVs. "

You want to spend a fortune pushing these people through the legal and justice system. Spend, spend, spend. Where, exactly are we supposed to get all this money, anyway?

@33 Could you imagine what Xina Bipolar Princess could get done if she wasn't writing novels on slog? Maybe a real novel, who knows.

Can I just point out to all the commenters bitching about RVs getting their sewage pumped out that neighborhoods where large numbers of these RVs congregate have been BEGGING the city to do this? The inhabitants of Georgetown, where I live, and which has a BIG problem with people forced to live in RVs dumping human waste all over the place, are fucking THRILLED about this program.
So unless you would like my neighbors to transport 50 Gatorade bottle full of piss collected from beside an RV in North Georgetown to YOUR front yards to be dumped?
Ya'll can kindly shut the fuck up about it.

@38: "You want to spend a fortune pushing these people through the legal and justice system."

No, I want the laws enforced equally on everyone. When a scofflaw RV dweller gets a citation, will he pay it, risk jail time for not paying it, or simply leave town? (Hint: he's living in a thing with wheels and a motor...)

@41: I worked in Georgetown for a dozen years, so I'm well aware of the situation. It started as a few RVs, parked around Ruby Chow Park, whose inhabitants quietly kept to themselves. After the mass influx of homeless in 2015-2016, RVs were parked everywhere in Georgetown, often with loud generators blatting away at all hours. Raw sewage dumps became the norm. I can certainly understand how residents of Georgetown do not want raw sewage dumped on their streets. The issue is why we allow RVs to park indefinitely when the inhabitants won't even make the minimal effort to be good neighbors.

@28 - is it actually correct that homelessness used to be worse than now? Are there numbers to back that up? I am pretty sure I am seeing more derelict RVs and campsites now than I ever have. Whatever the hell we are doing it's not working.

@40 - that sorry excuse for a nurse could very well be charged with, for example, reckless endangerment. "(1) A person is guilty of reckless endangerment when he or she recklessly engages in conduct not amounting to drive-by shooting but that creates a substantial risk of death or serious physical injury to another person.
(2) Reckless endangerment is a gross misdemeanor.

Only a gross misdemeanor, but she could do a very pleasant year in jail for it. And no state of mind required, just the conduct. I think that could readily be proven in this case.

Also I agree that the admin leave instead of firing is probably a step in the firing process. Hopefully someone has already complained about her to the licensing authority there as well.

@49: Auntie Fascist Just what would that accomplish? A RV dweller dumps their sewage, and under your plan what happens next? They get a fine they can't pay and won't pay? The state confiscates their RV? What will that cost to tow and store or dispose of? Then what happens to the people who lived in the RV? Do they go to jail? Which will cost a whole lot more?
When will people like you ever get that your punitive approach to social problems doesn't work and ends up costing you much MUCH more of your precious fucking tax dollars?

@50, It certainly wouldn't be perfect, but having penalties for anti-social stuff is pretty much what Seattle does. If you're going to fine people for letting their dog off leash, parking faced the wrong way, and improperly sorting their garbage, it seems like just letting people dump raw sewage, when there is a free and easy alternative, is a bit of an oversight.

@46 careful, you're using up all your insults in one post. You need to spread them out to make them last longer. In between your invectives you might want to pause, take a breath and actually read what people are writing. No one absolutely NO ONE has advocated for criminalizing poverty or mental illness. What I read is people requesting those asking for public assistance simply live up to their side of the social contract. You and your ilk would have it so we continue to enable these people to the detriment of rest of society with no expectation that they reciprocate in any way. If someone breaks the law then they should be held accountable. That shouldn't be controversial or even really a discussion point. Criminalize crime instead of going down the bullshit path Herbold is going to do with her affirmative defense bill.

The funniest point you make is your last one. The "vast sum of taxpayer money given to billionaires". IT'S NOT THE GOVERNMENTS MONEY and it's not even real. It's all made up wealth that has no bearing on reality. I have already told you have to begin to correct the issue of wealth concentration but I guess its just easier to continue to hurl insults than actually have a nuanced discussion. At least your entertaining.

@50: RVs have been getting towed out of Georgetown for years. Someone who claims to live there, and to know what's happening there, should know this. (Especially before abusively lecturing everyone else here.)

The main thing an RV which has been towed away from Georgetown cannot do is to dump raw sewage on the streets of Georgetown. If you're as offended by the dumping of raw sewage on the streets of Georgetown as you claim to be, then why, exactly, you would have a problem with that?

@54: Our Good Prof' has long since drunk the "Amazon/Bezos vs. the Homeless" kool-aid, which our City Council has been passing out in buckets since before they had their collective asses handed to them on the EHT. As our efforts to end homelessness in Seattle have all produced expensive failure, any questioning of those efforts brings spitting rage from defenders of those efforts. Therefore, to folks like Our Good Prof', any questioning at all about what we're doing magically and automatically makes the questioner an Amazon/Bezos stooge who hates poor people. Insults and invective inevitably follow, which do as much as anything else we've done to end homelessness, but are at least less expensive (and more amusing).

@58 it's a violation of two things:

first, her nursing oath (or whatever is the equivalent of the doctor's oath that nursers are required to follow) - see all of the nurses who are totally outraged by her behavior who insist that she should have already been fired and needs to have her nursing license revoked, never being allowed to be a nurse anywhere ever again. pretty sure nurses know what the rules of their profession are. pretty sure the nurses who are thoroughly pissed that this sociopath, this POS, this fucking stupid, science denying, shit bag just made all of their lives 1000% more difficult while taking a trump sized shit on their profession know how she can and should be punished.

secondly, the governor of oregon has very strict lockdown regulations in place because the state has reached critical mass with the number of daily cases and deaths. oregon was originally projected to have less than 3,000 cases and less than 100 deaths. we're into the tens of thousands of cases (averaging 1000 cases a day) and nearing 1000 deaths. businesses are being fined for violating the governor's orders, so the nurse bragging about violating the orders, she can be held accountable as well.

Here's Oregon law regarding losing one's nursing license:

https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/678.111

(1) Issuance of the license to practice nursing, whether by examination or by indorsement, of any person may be refused or the license may be revoked or suspended or the licensee may be placed on probation for a period specified by the Oregon State Board of Nursing and subject to such condition as the board may impose or may be issued a limited license or may be reprimanded or censured by the board, for any of the following causes:

(f) Conduct derogatory to the standards of nursing.

Mention shit spills and everyone comes up with “solutions” to homelessness. Lock ‘em up! Except courts have ruled again and again that the homeless are - can you believe this shit? - people. while all you so-called liberals suddenly want to ethnic cleanse the streets of the underclass, policymakers have a more complicated situation to navigate. Thanks for your suggestions, though, you kind-hearted savants.

Durkan was cracking down on the camps like a Grstapo colonel, and that sure worked to end the scourge of homelessness.

Try harder. Or better yet dont try at all. Move to Bellevue.

FWIW, the headline talks about a "solution" to "spills" of raw sewage, but the problem the story describes is dumping, not spills, and the expensive "solution" is working only halfway. There is still plenty of raw sewage being intentionally and illegally dumped on our city.

@64: "Lock ‘em up!"

Who here has advocated locking up persons who illegally dump sewage on our streets? All anyone has asked is for our existing laws against dumping sewage to be equally enforced. That would mean a citation and fine, not jail time.

"...suddenly want to ethnic cleanse the streets of the underclass..."

Poor people and homeless people are not an ethnicity. Do you even know what words mean?

"...policymakers have a more complicated situation to navigate."

Equal enforcement of our laws is not complicated. In fact, it is supposedly one of our core values.

Here's a solution to the RV campers...all their shit and home are on wheels, move somewhere cheaper? The city will gladly give you money to fix your RV if it does not function so that you can move along to somewhere more affordable on a wage of zero dollars.
I mean, I know for a fact you could legally park that shit in the Midwest for like $200/mo. Hell, 1-bedroom apartments can be had for $500/mo with utilities INCLUDED. Imagine that, actual plumbing!
I have to laugh when these people say, "move along, to where?" Literally anywhere else, all your stuff is on a moving platform. But this type of forethought can't be expected from someone who managed themselves into chronic homelessness.

@65 - Your “ideas” on this topic are well known and so facile as to make one wonder why you share them at all. I reached the inescapable conclusion long ago that it gives you a salutary little thrill to rage against those you see as transgressors. It does less than nothing, unlike what the city is doing, which is mitigating harm at the lesser expense, avoiding housing a growing itinerant population and civil rights lawsuits. But you just keep raging - I’m sure the citywide tow brigade, RV demo, and homeless deportation brigades will hear your call. Idgit.

I wish I had a nickel for every time I've seen someone with a cardboard sign "Will Work For Food" sitting on the sidewalk in front of a "Help Wanted" sign on a business.

I also wish I had a nickel for every time I've had to read some comment from some self-entitled millionaire or billionaire who never works for his money, he spends all his time sitting around in meetings or "management seminars", complaining about how easy people have it, while their workers bust their butt for less than minimum wage.

Conclusion : capitalism is broken beyond repair. All the king's horses and all the king's men can't put it back together again.

@68: So, we only enforce laws to protect our environment when it's conveniently easy for us to do so?

Those sewage-dumping RVs I saw in Georgetown would also park immobile for weeks at a time, and were visibly festooned with stolen property. Once the towing citations were issued, and after at least one was actually towed, the rest departed in a hurry. Problem solved. We should have kept doing it. There's no reason for us to tolerate residents who pay no rent, few taxes, and won't even make a minimal effort to keep our city clean.

(Putting it another way, If a company was found illegally dumping waste on Seattle, and the CEO was all, "you middle-class socialistic losers just hate those of us who work hard enough to afford two vacation homes and still want a third," I think you'd see the value in enforcing our laws.)

@70 - blah, blah, blah. Repeating the same shit over and over doesn’t make it any less uninteresting. Come back when you have literally anything not stupid to say.

I mean, i get it - you really obsess about homeless person shit. Like, you think about it a lot. Did that plague of hepatitis you fantasize about ever sweep through the city? Nah? Huh. Meanwhile, all the housed world travelers brought back a real plague. What’s the exact opposite of citing the homeless for shit spills? Let’s enforce the stay home order on the homed tech bros hittin’ up sin city during a mf’ing quarantine. Nice chat, brah.

@67: "which is mitigating harm at the lesser expense"

@18 noted the cost is $175 per tank pumping (the Seattle Times article says $179) against $3 for having it done at a proper facility. So I'm not exactly sure how that's a "lesser expense."

All of this is a band-aid on the problem we lack the will to solve, which is allowing persons to live here without paying anything in rent, much in taxes, or otherwise contributing to our community.

@72: No, we have been lucky enough to avoid an outbreak of Hep' A, one like San Diego and Los Angeles experienced a few years back. That does not make us immune, just lucky. And if we do suffer such an outbreak, that's just more money -- in the form of vital medical resources! -- we would spend for no good reason. (That you would belittle such a threat while mentioning a global pandemic is just precious, though. Thanks for the laughs!)

The “problem” (weird term for human beings) can’t be solved through an act of will. Build a time machine, go back to 1980, teach John H. better aim, don’t break the unions, don’t de-fund public mental health, don’t start transferring wealth upwards, don’t build an economy on coke and corruption, don’t set up a massive defrauding of the US (2000-2007) that leads to hoarding of housing. Then fewer people fall of the back and gi e the fuck up. That’s a solution with potential. Unlike your “ticket them, make them work, run them out of town” vision, all it requires is a fucking time machine, but I’d bet on that before I’d bet on your “JUST FIX IT” “strategy.”

@75: And my point is that people who are literally dumping shit on our city are probably also breaking other laws as well.

"You still have shit in the streets."

Yes, despite The Stranger's claim of a solution, we still have shit in the streets, even after paying ~60 times what existing services charge. And, in the case where the RV occupant is not the owner, we're paying our money to subsidize the ultimate in slumlords. Do you get satisfaction from knowing that?

"Alternatively, you can recognize the problem exists and intervene to prevent it."

Yes, we can enforce our current laws to protect public health, public safety, and our environment. Or we can continue paying ~60 times market rate to subsidize slumlords, and still have shit on our streets. You can continue advocating that latter course all you like.

@74: Human beings are not a problem, but they create problems with their illegal and irresponsible behaviors. This is why we have laws. Would I prefer Big Pharma never have created and marketed dangerously addictive opiates? Yes. Would I prefer Seattle had swept the first encampment the moment it appeared? Yes. But we're past such wishes now. We can still enforce our laws, though. If we can get money from Big Pharma (and both King County and Seattle have lawsuits going) then we can use it to treat Big Pharma's victims. Until then, the health and safety of Seattle's citizens should be the first responsibility of Seattle. Allowing people to rot on our streets is not "compassionate," and no amount of claiming it is can change that.

@76 - Lissa already posed all the questions that you don’t have answers for that make your “compassionate” plea to “enforce the law” as disingenuous as building a wall to keep all the rapists out of america. What good does it do to issue a ticket to someone who can’t pay it? Do you impound all the RVs? Where do you store all the RVs? What does it cost to dispose of thsm? How do you avoid trampling the civil rights of the people living in said RVs?

I don’t expect actual answers from you, becauze you’re a paternalistic idiot and answers aren’t the point for you. Shrill moralizing is the point, and you’ve made if, over and over and over, without convincing a single fucking soul of anything but your complete dipshittedness.

Sorry if I come across disrespectful. I’l stop just as soon as you show the ability to do anything but parrot the same stupidity again and again. Until then, I will do nothing but heap contempt on your willful obtuseness. You have nothing to offer anyone here with this shit. Break your keyboard.

78 - he was also a dave meinert defender. So unfair, all thise published allegations. So...accused rapists are entitled to due process and can’t be accused in the media. The homeless should be accused, tried, convicted, and deported in the comment threads of the stranger, even if the “plan” has zero chance of working. What a sad waste of energy...for all of us.

Statements of compassion and acknowledgement of the legitimate considerations of civil liberties on the other hand are helpful, even in idle comments. I always appreciate hearing your perspectives.

@78: My concern for public health and safety is very real, and so I very much want those laws to be faithfully and equally enforced. You're free to continue arguing we should not enforce such laws, but please do understand you're merely showing how false your concern for other human beings actually is. (And, since you also missed it, I already answered Lissa's questions. Please let me know if you continue to need assistance in finding or understanding my answers.)

While it is mostly off-topic, I'm very sorry to read you've swallowed the emissions of male convicts. As I have myself never swallowed any emissions from any convicts, I am unaware of any crime Mr. Murray may have committed. Did those emissions of male convicts that you so foolishly swallowed contain any mention of an alleged crime Mr. Murray may have committed in Seattle, especially during his times in public offices? If not, why should anyone here care?

@79: Funny you should mention Meinert. The Stranger sat on the allegations against Meinert because he was a major advertiser. (So much for the journalism they keep trying to peddle in their beg-fest messages.) Meanwhile, Meinert's remaining properties seemed to be doing well until COVID hit, as far as I know (or care). Perhaps Meinert's example shows publishing allegations which never, ever appear in any court has proven to be ineffective, to say the least.

I will never apologize for upholding the presumption of innocence.

@83 - I don’t give a shit about Meinert, and i dont give a shit what you still think about meinert. In fact i wasnt talking to you. I was talking about you, to blip, a person with a functioning intellect. You i invite to step off the edge of the planet or develop any new thought or idea - whichever is most within your sphere of competency.

@84: I don't exactly know how swallowing (and regurgitating) the emissions of male convicts furnishes proof of a "functioning intellect," but as you're the self-described expert on that, I'll just leave that part up to you. Good luck with it.

Meanwhile, here's the heartwarming tale of what publishing unproven allegations against Meinert did to one of his employees:

"Not even a week has passed, and many in my community seem to expect me to be fine without income, or to already have new work lined up. Though no one told me to write this, and it certainly hasn't been cleared by Meinert, I want this community to know: these expectations are beyond harmful."

Read the whole thing again, and wallow in your self-appointed sense of moral superiority:

https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2018/07/25/29686920/guest-editorial-the-lost-lake-boycott-threatens-my-livelihood

Did you copy and paste one of your 2018 posts word for word? Might as well have. You haven’t posted a new or original thought here since before Obama left office (if even then). No wonder you hate shit spills - they remind you of that time you had a CSF leak.

@86: No, it was a link from 2018 which I copied and pasted. Hopefully, the needless misery suffered by innocent employees of Meinert's soon-to-be-sold properties on Capitol Hill was mercifully short-lived.

As for swallowing the emissions of male convicts, that easily-avoidable activity shall always remain timelessly gullible. If, for some reason, you really, really, really hate being reminded of just how ludicrously foolish it is, then please complain to that "person with a functioning intellect" here who bragged about having done it.

It’s funny how just a mention of Meinert sets you off. You can’t get off the subject. And then there’s your mode of “discourse.” Just repeat yourself ad infinitum, hoping to wear down the object of your philibluster.

It feels a bit....what’s the word i’m searching for..rapey.

I bet you have an allegation of rape or two in your past, don’t you tenser. Has our tensypoo been in Meinert’s shoes? It’s okay - you can admit it here. I won’t judge.

"It’s funny how just a mention of Meinert sets you off."

Perhaps because I have a good memory?

"Who do you think is more impacted by an immediate boycott—the rich guy who has been running the Hill for two decades, or the employee who depends on tips to barely afford HRT and rent without a boycott in effect?

"While the rest of us are trying to keep our heads from spinning off, Meinert has stepped away from all Guild operations. While I hope he is figuring out how he will begin reparations, I know he isn’t worried about choosing between groceries and rent.

"Boycotting Lost Lake won’t change that. It does, however, leave me feeling completely forgotten and abandoned."

'And then there’s your mode of “discourse.”'

I merely noted the headline was wrong: pumping sewage out of some RVs is not a solution to having people living in RVs. Even that tiny bit of obvious reality seems to have set some people off, and I honestly don't know why. I even suggested another possible solution, but that was shouted down without examination.

"Just repeat yourself ad infinitum, hoping to wear down the object of your philibluster."

Like this?

"I care abt public safety too which is why I think it’s a great idea to pump sewage from rvs so ppl don’t dump it in the streets but if you think tickets are the way to go im happy to agree to disagree with you have a great day"

"It feels a bit....what’s the word i’m searching for..rapey."

You're seriously conflating rape with what blip wrote? Do you even know what words mean?

"I bet you have an allegation of rape or two in your past, don’t you tenser."

How about we bet on how to spell my nym? It's only six letters, and you've been attacking me personally for years.

Again, I make no apologies for defending the presumption of innocence. You've made it clear you cannot or will not understand defense of principle, so we have no need for your tiresome conflation of defending a principle with defending a person. If Meinert ever raped anyone, and the statute of limitations has expired, then I hope his victim(s) sue him, and take all the pennies COVID has left him.

I also hope any and all actual victims of the rumor-mongering "reporting" about Meinert, like the one I have here quoted, were able to continue with their lives in some semblance of order. (Instead of boycotting Lost Lake et al, patrons who wanted to hurt Meinert and help his employees could have ordered nothing but "loss leader" menu items, and tipped grandly for such small purchases. But a virtue-signaling "boycott" was the best they could do, eating their overpriced meals down the street, whilst preening with moralistic self-importance.)

I know HOW to spell your “nym,” Schopenhauer. I choose whether to misspell it. I choose when.

What’s rapey isn’t anything blip wrote. It’s your inability to shut up. It’s your anger. It’s your grinding repetition, your attempt to wear down people (especially female people - what up lissa?) on slog until they just give in. It’s your willingness to divide people into categories deserving forbearance and those requiring strict punishment. It’s your disrespect for female journalists and female politicians and your full-throated defense of white men who don’t even defend themselves. Meinert all but admitted his guilt publicly. Why you still fighting the bad fight?

I find it telling that your response to me saying you have a rape allegation in your past is to lecture me on my spelling.

You can’t change the topic fast enough.

Here, I’ll save you the hassle of responding.

“Dropquote blah blah blah blah”

“Dropquote blah blah blah”

Emissions of male convicts.

DEFENDING THE PRINCIPLE OF GUILTY UNTIL ASSUMED INNOCENT EVEN WHEN THE UNJUSTLY ACCUSED HAVE SAID “yeah, i did that shit.”

What part of [fill in blank with specious nonsense] don’t you understand?

Whoo, schooled myself. What a lashing. I’ll bend over now and let you do your worst if you’ll stop saying dumb shit on slog. Deal?

@90: "I know HOW to spell your “nym,” Schopenhauer. I choose whether to misspell it. I choose when."

Please continue to revel in your display of agency. Your display of your agency is obviously of great importance. To you.

"What’s rapey isn’t anything blip wrote."

Actually, according to you, it is. You just so happen to be wrong about that. Again.

"It’s your anger."

As evidenced by my statements like, "You have nothing to offer anyone here with this shit. Break your keyboard."

"especially female people - what up lissa?"

She abusively told other commenters, "Ya'll can kindly shut the fuck up about it." Then she showed her own ignorance of what had happened in Georgetown. I called her on it, and she has yet to respond. Please take your complaints to her.

"It’s your willingness to divide people into categories deserving forbearance and those requiring strict punishment."

As when you and blip declared that law-breaking RV-dwellers deserved forbearance, and Ed Murray and Dave Meinert required strict punishment?

"It’s your disrespect for ... female politicians..."

I voted for Jenny Durkan, and I support her policies.

"I find it telling that your response to me saying you have a rape allegation in your past is to lecture me on my spelling."

I find it telling your inability (or, as you now loudly claim, your unwillingness) even to spell my nym correctly does not dissuade you in the least from making unsupported claims about my private life.

"Meinert all but admitted his guilt publicly."

Meinert admitted to improper sexual behavior. That's a long way from rape. Murray admitted to nothing. Years have now gone by, and no one has ever produced evidence in court otherwise. Meanwhile, the ill effects of publicly accusing Meinert of rape were well documented:

"Please, for my sake, and the sake of my work family (many of whom do not have the financial nor temporal luxuries to walk away); give us a chance to survive, plan, and heal."

But you couldn't possibly care less about her, now could you?

You never seriously engaged with any of the issues Lissa raised. You ignored them, lectured her paternalistically, and went right back to hammering away at your preferred “solution.”

That pattern is nothing nee and it is why folks like her, blip and me find you so unpalatable. If you want the immense amount of time you spend here to have any effect whatsoever, listen more and engage with the actual issues other users bring up.

If you can do that, you might actually persuade a few people. You will definitely get less contempt from me.

@93: "You never seriously engaged with any of the issues Lissa raised."

Your continuing failure of reading comprehension is not my problem.

Furthermore, Lissa made very, even rudely, clear @41 that she wanted no engagement with her statements, from anyone, at all. Faulting anyone else for not providing what Lissa herself clearly stated was not possible to provide is a rather tortured method of victim-blaming.

"That pattern is nothing nee and it is why folks like her, blip and me find you so unpalatable."

Lissa clearly stated she wanted no engagement from anyone, at all. Her next comment, to ask questions which had already been answered, shows she was indeed not listening to anyone, at all, exactly as she had clearly implied she would not. Again, it's hard to see how the fault here lies with anyone other than Lissa, but misplacing blame appears to be your main core competency here.

"...listen more and engage with the actual issues other users bring up."

Do you want me to do that, or do you want me to follow Lissa's example? ;-)

Seriously, blip didn't bring up any actual issues either; he merely kept repeating his opinions that ticketing people for lawbreaking is just so gosh darned difficult we shouldn't even try, and that we're big meanies for suggesting our laws be enforced on persons who literally dump shit on our city. Perhaps understanding he hadn't actually made any arguments, he attacked me personally, and when I turned that around on him, he re-stated his opinions (yet again), and left.

Perhaps you should address your complaints about a lack of civility to the commenters who, like yourself, actually violate our standards for civil discourse?

Sigh. Of course you go right back to you uzh. Dont know why i try.

You’re like a child. Not the cute kind, but the kind that’s screaming in a store so bad their parent loses their cool and shakes them and then has to leave before CPS shows up.

@95: I love how you just flip effortlessly from name-calling personal attack, to sanctimonious self-appointed Chief of the Thread Civility Police, and then right back to personal attack. You're a regular Loren Culp of Slog, you are. Congratulations!

Thanks for the laughs.

Hey, you’re free to keep doing what you’re doing. Ignore my little canary next to your farting keyboard if you want, but why would you want to? I mean, your comments have leas than zero impact today. I’m doing you a favor you don’t deserve. I’m giving you the gift of feedback. Take it! It’s not too late to redeem this tendentious pedant of an alter ego you’ve created, tensyboi. People in World of Warcraft never pretend to be a spindly little shit who gets bitchslapped by the dashing paladin. Why do you do it here?

@97: Aaaannd, right back to the sanctimonious, self-appointed Thread Cop. (Good Cop version, this time. I guess like Loren himself, you have to play both roles.) Thanks for the validation.

Well, at least i can say i tried. Sorry i’ve been quiet the last few days. I went back to my other side gig: teaching developmentally disabled chimps who have suffered brain trauma how to type. It’s harder work than trying to help you, but more rewarding, since they have demonstrated significantly more capacity to respond to external stimuli. One of them, Bobo, a particularly incorrigible case, is probably the reason my false hope for you sustains - he recently stopped smearing his own excrement on the keyboard, which seemed unimaginable even a week ago.

I have a hard time believing you will stop doing the rhetorical equivalent, but if Bobo can overcome his limited mental faculties and the lingering effects of a sub-cranial hematoma (the larger chimp snuck up on him from behind with a very big stick) that inhibits his fine motor control and better himself, so can you! I believe in you, little buddy, no matter what blip or alaskanbutnotseanparnell might say.

@99-100: Are you experiencing some kind of episode? Do you require medical attention? It appears you've been getting far too much screen time for your own good, here of late. Your last validation was @82, and that was over a week ago. Time to give up and get some rest, perhaps? Best of wishes, good-bye for now.

Good bye? You mean I won’t see you on slog for a while?

Darn.