Yonder Bar was not a bar run by a home brewer out of their home. It's a retail location for Yonder Cider. Honestly, it's this kind of shabby reporting that makes obvious that The Stranger has become a shell of its former self.


Waiting for the article asking us all why cider brewing is so white, where all the Black cider brewers? While I'm at it, home businesses are systemically racist because of the licensing fees associated with starting and the fact that you benefit most if you actually own a home (which many POC do not) so you can write-off a certain amount of square footage as "office space" on your taxes. Couple of content ideas for you in-case you get writer's block.


@1, I see nothing inaccurate in this accounting of Yonder Bar's closure. I suppose you could say that Yonder Bar is ALSO a retail location for Yonder Cider. Or more like THE retail location for Yonder Cider. Or more like the former (until further notice) retail location for Yonder Cider.

Here's another story about Yonder Bar:


And here's their website:

I suppose the outstanding question is, where is the cider brewed? Is it brewed in someone's home or not? Feel free to venture down that rabbit hole.


@3 Wenachee :
not much of a rabbit hole
But to suggest they are a home brewer selling out of their house makes it sound like they are operating a brewery and tasting room out of their home, which is not the case.
I think it's entirely fair to say that the quality of the writing and reporting in this paper has gone down c o n s i d e r a b l y in the past few years, and the flippancy with which this information was presented is a good example of that decline.


"Boeing 777 failed spectacularly after take-off in Denver, dropping large pieces on the neighborhood below."
My Sis-in-Law actually had pieces of this sled land in her backyard! I told her to expect a visit from the FAA soon.


'[Curtis King] says “it’s time we made everybody contribute and pay for what they use,” as if bikes are a burden on transportation infrastructure on par with cars. '

Vast majority of cyclists are also automobile owners and do indeed "pay their share". This stupid idea gets kicked up when someone is trying to get attention.


@4, thanks for the info. Yonder Cider/Bar--not a home brewer.


Perhaps Seattle should follow Houston's example and eliminate all zoning.

What could possibly go wrong?


@4, Your comment still seems pretty pedantic, and anyway I hate when people bitch about independent media as it stretches itself to cover gaping resource gaps (almost always the case). If you’re so bothered by a perceived drop in quality, consider the effects of market pressures and huge, pandemic-related drops in ad revenue, and donate some money instead:


Listen, I know I'm already an avowed member of the schmacky Appreciation Society, but I have to add, schmacky @9 captures what was rubbing me the wrong way about the comment @1.

One of the sad truths about our society these days is that it's all too easy for people to complain about businesses and organizations and institutions when (A) those institutions are made up of people as well and (B) everything is seemingly getting harder and harder these days and (C) you just know that, if the people doing the complaining were the ones actually working at the places they were complaining about, they'd have all the more to complain about.

Y'know, those who live in glass houses... And don't even realize their own glass is broken.



Renters can also write off home office space, it's just that instead of deducting a portion of your mortgage, you deduct a corresponding percentage of your rent; otherwise, it's exactly the same in terms of your other deductions (utilities, cable/internet, cell phone, etc.). I literally just did this on my own taxes for my spouse's home office/recording studio.


Re: The Muppet Show:

It's worth noting Disney has been including similar disclaimers onto its own proprietary content since D+ started up, including: Lady And The Tramp, Peter Pan, The Jungle Book, Dumbo, and others.

And it's funny that conservatives are getting their tighty-whities in a bunch over this, especially since Disney is explicitly NOT censoring the offending content by deleting the segments. Imagine how the steam would have poured from RWNJ ears is THAT had been the case.


@9 and @10. Look, you don't know me and you don't know where I've worked. But ask yourself what value this paper is currently bringing, because I am struggling to figure it out. There was a time when this paper was thee paper in town, it had amazing writers and reporters and was continuously slaying the competition that was better funded. It was a paper that had maturity and quality as a foil to their irreverence and adolescence. They had the chops to back up whatever ridiculousness they sowed, and the people there were proud of their work.
The impression I get now is it's being written by a bunch of inexperienced writers that just don't seem to care, and sloppy reporting is an example of that. But, honestly maybe it's me. I am sad about the changes I've seen at this paper, and I want them to be better, because I remember the "good ol' days". Maybe the values and things I care about, just aren't part of the paper's mission anymore. Out of, I don't know, loyalty maybe? I still read the Slog AM and PM, but I find less and less that even those posts are providing any value.


Please for the love of things holy, close of Pike Place to regular cars. Install those raiseable/lowerable bollards at the entry points so delivery trucks can come in between 12am and 8am, then close 'em up during the day, so it's all pedestrian. It's so simple and other cities have been doing this for ages.


For myself, I've always thought Pike Place was a great drop off and pick up point for mobility and endurance challenged visitors to the market.


Pike Place isn't even scenic enough to warrant a trip down that road. It's a fucking market. Who cares? I guess the sign is cool but you don't need to drive down there to see it.


@17: what do you want, Yosemite?


in Other news:
from Democracy Now:

Fossil Fuel Shock Doctrine: Naomi Klein
on Deadly Deregulation & Why Texas
Needs the Green New Deal

Millions of Texans are still suffering after severe winter weather devastated the state’s energy and water systems. About 8 million Texans remain under orders to boil water, and 30,000 homes still have no power.

Around 70 deaths have now been linked to the winter storms, including at least 12 people who died inside their homes after losing heat. Republican lawmakers in Texas are facing increasing criticism for their handling of the crisis, their decades-long push to deregulate the state’s energy system, and their unfounded attacks on renewable energy and the Green New Deal.

Naomi Klein, senior correspondent at The Intercept and a professor at Rutgers University, says Republicans’ reaction is “because of panic” over their own culpability.

“The Green New Deal is a plan that could solve so many of Texas’s problems and the problems across the country, and Republicans have absolutely nothing to offer except for more deregulation, more privatization, more austerity.”

Klein also discusses the Biden administration’s early policies on the climate crisis, the dangers of continued fossil fuel development, and her new book, “How to Change Everything: The Young Human’s Guide to Protecting the Planet and Each Other.”

tonnes more on this and
(other) actual News at:


@18 -- well-Trolled.
so there IS a thing
you're 'good'


Man, the hits just keep coming for Boeing. It's kinda too bad this time that they'll get the lion's share of the blame for this incident from the public when it's really the fault of either Pratt & Whitney, the maker of the engine, or the maintenance shop of United Airlines.


@21: You'd think mere imperfect mortals would have the competence to build perfect machinery, especially with something as important as an airplane.


from Baume's link: "Reliant Energy spokesperson Megan Talley told NBC News that it is offering flexible bill payment options to support customers impacted by the storm. It said customers should contact the company directly 'so we can work with them through this difficult time.'"

'cause you can really Rely on Reliant Energy.
but $16K for four days energy usage?!
best get used to* Republican Utopia
po' folks. thnx, repubs!

*"if you have Blood you prolly have More than you Need and if you're not busy Selling it to pay your Power Bills then you're obv. one Selfish Basterd" -- actual Quote



This has been a periodic cycle with The Stranger since its inception: Keck throws together a crew of rough-talented, but inexperienced writers and reporters and lets them loose to fuck shit up until they find their voices and mature into polished, articulate professionals, at which point they inevitably leave the nest for bigger and better - not to mention better paying - gigs.

Think of it as the "Saturday Night Live" of advocacy journalism...



It would be very simple for the City to just create a white-strip "Handicap Loading Zone" adjacent to 1st and Pike; no need for passenger vehicles to have to drive INTO Pike Place for that.


I walk by Yonder Cider all the time. It's never been anything more than a few people standing in line to buy cider & maybe taste it. There's no real drinking associated with it & no disturbance of any kind as far as I've seen. I was puzzled as to how they could operate in a residential neighborhood but they told me it had been OK'd by the City. It would be kind of nice if a few small retail places like that could operate in the neighborhoods (there's been a butchershop a few blocks away for years and no one seems too upset about it).


I think it's the Pratt & Whitney execs who are losing sleep over the 777 groundings, not Boeing's. It seems they still haven't figured out how to scan hollow turbofan blades for cracks.


Nothing on Lisa Herbold's opus in the Seattle Times over the weekend?

Really some creative writing on her part with such gems as "Though officer staffing decreased by 135 during 2020, no officers were laid off as a result of council’s budget reductions." While I suppose that is technically true, for her to pretend the mass exodus in the SPD was not a direct result of the SCC's rhetoric is really a master class on spin doctoring and revisionist history. Maybe Lisa can join The Stranger and help the staff out with their writing skills.


@2 you've been reading the stranger long enough to know that the tagline of the stranger should really be "cool story bro, but how is it racist."


Matt, you are correct, the bike parts tax is really dumb. Just like the butter tax you just finished a whole article drooling over.


@13: Slog writers don't do news reporting. Their job is to curate their Twitter feeds and generate clickable hot takes on the content that scrolls by. Any news content on Slog comes from the sources they are following.


@24 - true, but it felt like in the past there WAS rough talent, and it was being shaped by good editors. It feels like now the "talent" is just rough, and there's no one shaping them into better writers (also, is someone proof reading over there still?)

@33 sadly that wasn't always the case. There was a time this paper was regularly churning out 120 page papers a week, Solid, even -gasp- award winning writing AND art direction. I get that the internet and digital disruption has upended the revenue model for the alt weekly, but it doesn't mean you can't have quality writing. But yes, this is what their content has come to - and what's the value in that?

And if it's still not clear, I am rooting for these guys because I know they can be better. Maybe they need some competition again?


@29, it's common for airlines to cut separate deals for aircraft and engines. Rolls-Royce and GE even charge per hour flown with their engines (which is one reason they've taken a revenue hit during the pandemic), monitor their performance in real time, and swap out engines periodically for service.


I wish a bear would bite oil-soaked Alaska Governor Mike Dunleavy in the butt. THAT would be a lot to chew on.

Excellent question, Matt. Why are people still flying at ALL?

@18: vewy vewy quiet.......Elmer's out twolling wabbits!

@19 & @23 kristofarian: I SWEAR I will never understand RepubliKKKans, especially those mismanaging Texas.

@20 kristofarian: Elmer is quite the Ultra-Maroon.

@21 Morty: While I agree that Pratt & Whitney is equally to blame for the faulty engine, there is ample reason that Boeing has such a shitty reputation. CEO bonu$e$ cancelling out sustainable union wages for engineers, profits over people, cuts in employee benefits, willful failure to conduct proper FAA safety inspections of Boeing 737 MAX jets prior to commercial flights, lack of proper pilot training on computerized systems, and consequential multiple crashes due to company negligence are just a few. Boeing's move of operations to South Carolina is blatantly all about hiring cheap, unskilled, non-union labor.
I know I'll never fly again.


@29 - I guess to some varying levels of degree. I mean, if they did their due diligence when they purchased the things, like reviewing available test data by the builder and other research and followed up with proper updates, maintenance, etc. (for as long as the latter is even their responsibility), it seems that would limit their exposure quite a bit and put the lion's share back on Pratt & Whitney...or maybe shoddy maintenance by United Airlines.

Anyway, I was suggesting that even if that turns out to be the case, to most of the public, it's only, "engine blows up on Boeing plane." Hell, most newspapers are already headlining it that way; the Pratt & Whitney/United Airlines angle is buried in the body of the articles.


@36 - Sure, agree with all. I was really just commenting about the phenomenon of how when one is in deep shit...even if rightly so often seems to be "when it rains, it pours," even when some of the later pouring rain isn't necessarily fair in and of itself.


@38 Morty: Good points well taken. I wasn't blasting you in @36. Agreed and seconded. I am still shaken over The New Yorker Magazine article, ["The Case Against Boeing", from November 11, 2019, by Alec McGillis]. I read about how consumer protection advocate and former 2000 Presidential hopeful Ralph Nader lost his great-niece, Samya Rose Stumo, age 26, on March 10, 2019 to the fatal crash of Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302. McGillis cited horrific details of Boeing's gross negligence that led to the wrongful deaths of Stumo and others.
With a few exceptions (turbulence, ear-popping, screaming babies, delays, etc.), flying to and from somewhere used to be an enjoyable experience for me. My faith in airplanes has now been permanently tarnished.


@8 --


@15 Arrrgh: I am amazed that anyone other than delivery drivers is driving through Pike Place Market!

So Orange NeoFascist-in-Exile Trumpty Dumpty STILL won't reveal its tax loopholes and dirty laundry money? This looks like a job for SuperBob! Here's to State Attorney Generals from New York and Georgia joining the fray and going after Trumpty Dumpty's fat, corrupt ass, as well. May Trumpty Dumpty soon join its fellow Death Cult Nazi, Rush Limbaugh, in Hell.


I wouldn't be surprised if Ted Cruz filled those bottles with used pump house water before first handing them out to the most desperate of high bidders.


Debate has been going on to close Pike Place Market to cars for decades. Obviously, there has never been an argument compelling enough to make the change.

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