We all know rideshare prices have been artificially low bc venture capitalists threw money at them for years. Makes little difference to my behavior * why* prices are going up, but they’re too expensive. See you on the bus, Gus. Or I’ll do more teleworking. Love it hate “the market,” it still rules how we do life.

The standard line from progressives whenever business owners complain about mandated increases in labor costs from city rules (min wage, secured scheduling, mandatory sick etc) is that they should just increase their prices. Right? If your business model doesn't support paying people a living wage you shouldn't be in business. So now when the ride share operators do that in response to city regulations there is consternation about prices being too high? What @1 said is true though so there was always going to be an adjustment but the city has pushed it beyond what it should be. For what's its worth we looked at taking a Lyft from Capitol Hill to the eastside last weekend and it was over $80 one way. Way overpriced.

I believe the Uber/Lyft rideshare business model was doomed from the outset. It could never, and will never, turn a profit.

Rideshare was essentially trying to replace the traditional cab industry with some tech handwaving, and transferring much of the overhead costs to the drivers. To get any riders, they had to significantly undercut traditional cab prices. As long as they had enough venture capital to lose money long enough, they could eventually wipe out traditional cabbies, and take over, vaguely like Amazon did to traditional brick & mortar book stores. That's what rideshares have done from the start. They have never profited.

The problem from the start is that the basic costs to provide rides hasn't changed in any meaningful way. You need a driver and you need a car. That was true of traditional cabs and it is true of rideshares. Amazon was able to take over and eventually profit because they eliminated one of the biggest expenses of selling books: the retail store. But there isn't really any expense that rideshares eliminate. Using high tech rideshare apps may be somewhat more efficient in connecting riders to drivers, but it doesn't change the underlying need and expense of cars and drivers. Shifting some of the expenses to the drivers and classifying them as independent contractors just put drivers in the shitty position of making it impossible to even earn minimum wage at the rates they were paying drivers a couple years ago (I did the math). They could get away with that for a short time, but that too is not sustainable long term.

So here we are. The rideshares are now being forced to provide at least a minimum level of compensations to the drivers in Seattle and a few other locations. The costs of vehicles has gone up with inflation. Uber/Lyft continue to burn through venture capital. Sooner or later they must find a way to turn a profit, or go under. The venture capital will run out. Since they can't significantly cut the underlying expenses of drivers and cars, they must raise their prices eventually or go under. In the long run, they could never sustain significantly cheaper prices than traditional cabs.

@3 The standard line from progressives is that business owners who fear that paying a living wage will cut into profits should accept lower profits. Just like the Free Market would dictate.

However, as others have pointed out, Lyft and Uber aren't really profitable. The market "disruption" that got the Venture Capitalists all excited amounts to little more than a smartphone-era spin on the age-old monopolistic practice of artificially depressing the price of a product until the competition -- in this case taxi cabs -- can be squeezed out. The innovative approach here was that they successfully claimed for several years to not be in the taxi business, but in the app business, and during this period were able to operate outside the regulations that governed taxi cabs, giving them a significant advantage. This bought them some time to engage in anti-competitive pricing before regulators could respond. However that grace period is expiring, as cities and states move to regulate their business.

The gamble was that the VC would carry them through until they had eliminated the competition and could set their own prices in a captured market. The other gamble was that self-driving cars would arrive to all but eliminate labor costs.

The "sharing economy" was always a scam. If you participated in the "sharing economy" and now find yourself feeling fucked, oh well. I don't feel sorry for you. You're part of the problem. Enjoy getting totally fucked over the way you fully participated in fucking other people over for your convenience and insistence that businesses like hotels and taxis, that were required to follow laws and rules and regulations of protection of both customer and employee, didn't deserve to remain viable as long as you could get something cheaper and easier at the expense of others.

@10 There are apps now that do the same thing (https://mobileapp.gocurb.com/). This isn't about the app.

If it really was about ride sharing, then they would get a lot of cooperation with pubic agencies, as the world could use more carpooling. But it isn't about that either.

It is about going around existing regulations.

My friends have asked me before why I don't like to use rideshare, or food delivery, or air bnb. I always tell them, these are not hospitality companies. They are just APIs with developers behind them and probably chatbot customer service reps. If you have an issue, don't expect it to be resolved quickly or to your satisfaction. There's nobody down at the desk to help you if you have an issue with your air bnb room. Twitter, tik tok, etc. are full of air bnb nightmare stories and yet people are still willing to pay. You almost never hear a good story about uber/lyft, what with the low pay and some of the rapey drivers... don't forget asshole passengers berating drivers, coughing on them, assaulting them, etc. And yet, apparently there are people willing to pay $80 for a trip across town hailed using uber/lyft.
That isn't to say, I don't respect the work they have put into their platforms. I have worked with the lyft api and it is easy to use and offers a lot of features to third-party devs. But let's be real, ya paying $70 for a trip and they're getting like $50 for a handful of api calls and the driver gets like $20. Customer and driver are both getting fucked, imo. But, convenience, I guess?

Canada started vaccinating well after the United States (and some other countries). But they've caught up in a hurry. They now lead the world in the percentage of the population with at least one dose (65%). But the number of people fully vaccinated is quite low (about 15% -- the U. S. is around 45%). Thus a lot of people need to have their second shot (and then wait a couple weeks). When Canada finally opens, it will probably be one of the safest places on earth in terms of the pandemic. But that will take a while.

Japan is also following a similar path, but they are further behind. It is quite possible though, that the country will be in great shape during the Olympics.

@12 -- Cab companies competed with other cab companies. If you wanted a nicer ride, you called a better company. The existence of two new cab companies really isn't a major contribution.

The app is, though. I get that. Curb probably wouldn't be here if not for Uber/Lyft. But now that its here, it offers the same convenience as them. So what does Uber/Lyft offer now?

The ability to skirt the regulations. Not only regulations specific to cab companies, but also labor regulations. That's it.

Sir Toby II

You are absolutely right that ten years ago, pre-app cab company service was terrible. Uber/Lyft apps did significantly improve the process of connecting a passenger with a ride.

That doesn't solve the current state of their business model that operates at a massive loss and is dependent on predatory pay scales to their drivers. Nobody will get rich driving a cab, but traditional cab drivers earn significantly more that rideshare drivers.

One good thing that came out of this whole failed experiement is that it forced traditional cab companies to adopt similar app based systems. You can now order most traditional cabs via app, just like Uber/Lyft.

Might as well take a cab or a town car, they're well insured and better drivers.

Mmm no, the cab business was was equally skeezy to their employees. The cost of entering the market was prohibitive: upwards of $100k to get a license to operate a cab (more in larger cities) and then cab owners ran it for all it was worth - folks on rotating 12 hours shifts, sometimes work visas were part of the compensation package, and very low pay. Let’s not kid ourselves that the bygone cab era was kind to workers. It’s honestly better for public transport and the planet for us all to back away from rideshares and get thee to public transit. Maybe that’ll move more drivers to transit. Those jobs are legit unionized and pay better.

What ride share actually disrupted was the government mandated monopoly of the cab business. First, they extracted massive "fees" for the privilege of having a taxi medallion and then did almost nothing to regulate safety / consumer service from these companies. The companies themselves could care less because it was impossible for new entrants to come into the market so they had no reason to put out a quality product or innovate. Remember when Uber/Lyft first stated and you had cab drivers committing suicide because the medallion they had purchased for six figures was now worthless? The taxi business was a bloated mess and it was ripe for disruption. What is somewhat sad is airport shuttle companies were taken out in the mess. They were way better for the environment but given a choice between your own car or stuffing in with 8 other people it was a no brainer.

I agree with most of the posters on here that the Uber/Lyft model was never sustainable. They are clearly subsidizing the ride in hope they can drive taxi's out of business and institute monopoly pricing. I'm also convinced the grand plan was to get to autonomous vehicles and then cut all their drivers loose as well. That is what investors are betting on when they keep funding these guys. It feels like their time is coming due though as autonomous cars are no where close to being ready and the UK has already ruled their drivers are employees so the US is probably not far behind.

That being said there is a place for their service in the industry and the current pricing in Seattle is not just reflective of the true cost of the ride but is also inflated because of the city bullshit piled onto it. You can hate on Uber/Lyft and not be wrong but the regulations piled on by the city are still onerous and will lead us back to the days of crappy cab companies that don't give a shit about anything.

@21: Right, take an extra hour or longer to take choo-choo to SeaTac, then a long walk to the terminal. Fine if you have the time, but not everyone does. The planet understands.

@23, i actually used to commute by Uber. $7 rides from downtown to Maple Leaf, it allowed me to work part time and scoot home to be w my kids after school when the express bus wasn’t yet running. Obviously those days are gone; same ride is now $30. But now: light rail! Thanks venture capitalists for subsidizing my working mothers lifestyle! Now taxpayers subsidize my ride. I don’t go to the airport enough for your example to matter.

@25: For commenting downtown, absolutely. I'm looking forward to the Roosevelt light rail station opening!

@30: Maybe a nice segue to wrap things up but it went right over your head - you rude twerp.

You're all forgetting about the essential tax-dodging and liability-avoiding aspects of the gig economy. Remember when the Feds had to cough up to pay unemployment for Uber & Lyft drivers, because their employers had managed to avoid paying into the system? It'll be a great day when Uber/Lyft are six feet under.

@33 I got 10:1 prof is the next one to go on a shooting rampage. Any takers? No, but seriously I feel bad for anyone who matches with this psycho on bumble or grinder or whatever.