Oh Nathalie, please do one on Jenny!
I'm sure she's a perfectly nice person if you happen to meet her but that doesn't change the fact her politics and rhetoric are divisive, toxic and have contributed to a decline in the quality of life in Seattle. I understand The Stranger wants to protect one of their cash cows but this seems kind of desperate.
Please do one on Ted Cruz.
I'm bulimic, and need to throw up last night's dinner!
"Suresh Chanmugam saw Sawant at Central Co-Op right as he pulled up with his cargo bike and his twins to get groceries. Chanmugam asked Sawant for a photo with his twins and their "$15 Now" buttons, but one twin was too shy to show his face."
Interestingly, the only time I've seen Sawant was in Central Co-Op, angrily demanding that a cashier remove a person from the premises for taking her photograph. The cashier, to his credit, shrugged and pointed to the checkout line, stating "All these other people have been waiting in line and I need to help them first. Try customer service."
This experience did not leave me with a good impression of Sawant. She came across as entitled and self important, outraged over some petty issue. This happened 6 or so years ago, but if it happened now, there would probably be a video of it online somewhere, captioned "Karen Freaks Out in Grocery Store."
uh oh someone's removed their kill bot and can see my comments again. If you pull your head out of your ass long enough the article itself states that the Solidarity campaign has over $500K already in their bank account ahead of the recall election. I'm sure the Stranger will see a nice slice of that and beyond that they also know Kshama get clicks which then encourages other advertisers to post ads here. No Kshama, no clicks, less ad revenue.
I think we both know The Stranger would also fold up before they ever endorsed a pro business candidate. They were soliciting donations yesterday for their primary election edition. No need to donate, I already have the answers. Mayor: Andrew Houston, Dist 8: Mosqueda, Dist 9: Oliver, Compassion Seattle: No, King County Exec: Joe Nguyen. You just need to pick the most woke and inexperienced candidate who vows to dismantle the system and fight big business blah blah blah. lol
@8 whatever you need to tell yourself but you’re the one always commenting on my stuff. I don’t even need an eviction moratorium to live rent free in your head. Have a good flight.
The Stranger does like doing human interest stories. Their puff piece on Jeff Simpson hand-waved away his long history of criminal predation, didn't mention his life-long anti-gay bigotry, and ultimately failed to note he'd lied about Ed Murray. Great stuff.
For my own part, I clearly recall CM Sawant using the slogan, "$15 NOW!", even after she'd incorporated Ed Murray's concessions to the business community, selling out the lowest-paid workers in our city to his political ambitions. Years would pass before every worker in our city was paid $15/hour, but why let reality get in the way of a great political slogan?
I also clearly recall her holding a mask-free rally in City Hall during the worst of COVID, and participating in a bullying, threatening mob at Mayor Durkan's family home. Then, as I recall, she blatantly lied about how that mob got Mayor Durkan's private address, and how she became part of that mob. I sincerely hope the voters of District 3 recall these actions of CM Sawant as well.
@11: To the best of my knowledge, CM Sawant doesn't grandly announce herself above responding to certain commenters here, then reeling off strings of personal attacks at those commenters anyway.
@8 you seem upset. And mocking people with extra chromosomes? I don't think the stranger likes online bullying, especially when you make light of the mentally challenged. I mean, you might as well have pulled out the 'R' word.
Unrelated, but I started building a chatbot for all the memerific posters around here. Gonna scrape all the comments from our stranger all-stars, feed 'em into a program, have it shoot-out comments generated dynamically by content of previous comments. Look forward to really great posts by ProfessorHiztoryBot, I assume they will all start out something like, "Hahaha. Oh come on. Ffs. Christ. I' m number one."
Fork me on github!
If at 20 you're not a socialist you have no heart, if at 40 you're not conservative you have no mind. Which is it for you natty?
2 -the classic example of Republican dishonesty and projection.
And 14, the classic Dunning-Kruger, complete with impairment of self awareness.
I've seen Kshama "in public" (or kind of - so I don't know if this counts). Years ago, I went to an event at the UW in the one of the auditoriums (I forget the topic, but it was political and - if memory serves - related to 3rd party elections). I arrived just a tad late and as I entered, I passed through a hallway where Kshama was standing- and also alternative media journalist (and very sane person), Jordan Chariton, with Status Coup.
IMO, Kshama Sawant is a very important local asset - and someone who has even influenced issues at the national level (for ex, the fight for 15). She is also a constant ally to labor. So, if they're going to have recall campaigns, throw some neo-liberals out instead (and for a change) and stop (otherwise) wasting our time with your conservative whining.
@16 I don't agree with @14, but dogmatic adherence exists on a completely different scale than the Dunning-Kruger curve governs.
@17: "IMO, Kshama Sawant is a very important local asset..."
So important the voters of District 3 should ignore her repeated and flagrant abuses of the office they granted her? Please do explain.
"...and someone who has even influenced issues at the national level (for ex, the fight for 15)."
Okay, first, the voters in Seatac had already enacted a $15/hour minimum wage, so Seattle was following, not leading, even locally. So if anyone should get credit for influencing the minimum wage debate at the national level, it should be the voters of Seatac, not any of us in Seattle.
Second, the "fight for $15" was a fight by our city government AGAINST $15, and when that failed, to dilute and to delay it. CM Sawant eagerly participated in this needless sell-out of our lowest-wage workers, delaying their $15/hour for several years, and allowing employers to use a tip credit. (Meanwhile, to force our government to act, we the citizens had already filed a REAL $15/hour Initiative.) CM Sawant was following then-Mayor Ed Murray, who was himself following the business interests he was intending to fund his future runs for higher office outside of Seattle. Seattle's $15/hour minimum wage was -- and still is! -- inferior to that in Seatac, and CM Sawant bears some of the blame for that.
Third, if you can find on our City Council some "neo-liberals" who have been found by our Supreme Court to be worthy of recall campaigns, then by all means, have at it. Please let me know where and when to sign.
@13 That's because you are one of the biggest idiots who comment here, and one of the most in need of remedial education.
@14 In the America of 2021, only the most deplorable scum and white nationalists still call themselves conservatives. Also in 2021, if you actually work for a living, you will realize that only the Democratic party will throw even a scrap to the workers of America.
Why is this even a question? Just because all the other politicians do nothing but press palms and glad-hand, doesn't mean it's a good thing that we should expect or demand. I like the fact that she focuses on her work -- trying to help Seattleites -- rather than focus on her image. Isn't that what people always say they really want from elected officials?
I recall Sawant near the museum in Volunteer Park, getting out of a Subaru Outback with a dog that she needed to walk. I looked at her, she looked at me and I kept walking. I recall sending 500.00 to the recall Sawant campaign. I recall signing the petition I received along with 5 others in my family and mailing it in.
@22: That's a pretty broad and inaccurate accusation. I suggest further study on the definition of conservative. Report back when completed.
Everyone is giving Sawant the Yoko Ono treatment and blaming her for everything from sun spots to Eddie Murphy's latest box office disaster. As this article proves, Sawant is a real person who lives in Seattle, thinks feels and cares, is a socialist, should not be recalled and should run for Mayor. Durkan's only achievements are being a member of the gay-liberation and having a hairy muffin, so Sawant is a very appealing candidate by comparison.
Sawant may be more difficult to photograph than many people. I am pretty sure she does not cast a reflection in a mirror.
I recall Sawant, co-opting "disenfranchised" recent white college graduates by promoting the philosophy of a 19th century proto-Hegelian economic critic whose ideas have, to this day, never worked in any situation, ever, because those ideas are merely a reaction against our crappy capitalist system, instead of an actual alternative to it.
Sawant is a politician. She is not a community leader, she is not a public servant. She is not someone who cares about anything except influence, power, and destructive change. She's essentially a leftist version of the "move fast and break stuff" ethos. Just as Ayn Rand was influenced by Leninist thought, so, too, are the adherents to the cults of personality on the left. They're not nearly as dangerous--only because the mechanisms of violence are controlled by right-leaning politics and systems in this country. Their ideas, their lack of nuance, their predication on one person knowing everything while stomping on everyone else, are exactly the same.
Maybe read Albert Camus's "The Rebel". Anyone? Has anyone in Seattle actually read "The Rebel"?
I recall Sawant riding the wave of the Occupy Wall Street movement. You know, when a bunch of privileged white kids camped out near city halls and complained about the very system that gave them the opportunity to play as protestors while the rest of us had to try to make ends meet.
@19 aka 'tensor'
'@17: "IMO, Kshama Sawant is a very important local asset..."
So important the voters of District 3 should ignore her repeated and flagrant abuses of the office they granted her? Please do explain.'
Please do explain your strawman.
'"...and someone who has even influenced issues at the national level (for ex, the fight for 15)."
'Okay, first, the voters in Seatac had already enacted a $15/hour minimum wage, so Seattle was following, not leading, even locally. So if anyone should get credit for influencing the minimum wage debate at the national level, it should be the voters of Seatac, not any of us in Seattle.'
But some of us don't live in your binary reality where credit for one cancels credit for another.
'Second, the "fight for $15" was a fight by our city government AGAINST $15, and when that failed, to dilute and to delay it. CM 'Sawant eagerly participated in this needless sell-out of our lowest-wage workers, delaying their $15/hour for several years, and allowing employers to use a tip credit. (Meanwhile, to force our government to act, we the citizens had already filed a REAL $15/hour Initiative.) CM Sawant was following then-Mayor Ed Murray, who was himself following the business interests he was intending to fund his future runs for higher office outside of Seattle. Seattle's $15/hour minimum wage was -- and still is! -- inferior to that in Seatac, and CM Sawant bears some of the blame for that.'
Well, that's news to me, so I can't comment, and especially given your record here merely reading and distorting my comments.
'Third, if you can find on our City Council some "neo-liberals" who have been found by our Supreme Court to be worthy of recall campaigns, then by all means, have at it. Please let me know where and when to sign.'
But I didn't say anything about the City Council, did I. So you stuck that in there too - another one of your strawmen. And how convenient for you that there are rarely recall campaigns for neo-liberals who dominate our corrupt political system . Though how did you feel about Sawant trying to recall Mayor Durkan? She would certainly qualify. So, I'm glad to see you volunteer for teaming up with Sawant instead! ;)
@28 Yes to the Yoko Ono test. She was way ahead of her times, is what (and still is). And it shows what happens when an elected leader is really "unbought" and "unbossed." These days, if there isn't any backlash, they're not doing their jobs right. I'd vote for Sawant for Mayor in a heartbeat - and in a RCV system, as Numero Uno. That would be an adventure worth taking.
@30 Clearly you missed OWS including over a trillion dollars in student debt. Rand, BTW, hated Lenin and loved everything you are promulgating about the glories of the Right. Though your insidious and hateful identity politics is moreso an invention of the neo-liberal left. You sure are one mixed up pigeon.
FTR I am not in Sawant's district and I have never had the opportunity to vote for her. Nor am I enamored in any "personality cult" or a believer in perfection. I don't wake up and think about Kshama Sawant (as some of her haters must do, and daily). I just like unbought politicians who understand that power must be confronted - that people must organize and unite and fight for their rights - and that, for better or worse, we must be willing to take risks - and get up again if we fall.
They're far too rare in our disgusting and corrupt system. So finding even one is like spotting a pearl floating in a river of sewage. Hang in there, Seattle - don't bite the bait - and don't stop impressing us. There's obviously The Big Money (that's never on my side) - and behind this effort to get rid of her.
Well that was a lovely little puff piece slice of propaganda from comrade Stranger, lol.
@28: Sawant shaves? who knew
@35 Actually it was an invitation for the obsessed Kshama haters to post.
Again, I like Kshama - and - I'm sure I don't agree with her on everything. I'm also glad the homeless have someone in their corner. The same people who hate Kshama generally hate the homeless and sound like they want them in ovens. Scary, even.
Can we now have a free discussion board on the Seattle Times piece regarding the mayoral candidates' proposals RE a police chief? And can someone tell me what's wrong with just keeping Diaz on? This area of the news seems refreshingly low key with him at the helm, he came in with a lot community experience, and he even demoted someone for not dealing with some umbrella protest appropriately. Hey, if it's working, let's leave it alone.
But instead all these candidates are trying to impress voters by talking about a big, high profile, national search? And at time when funding may be seriously cut?
This may surprise people since I like Kshama in there - and I understand and respect concerns about racism and brutality within police depts, and I believe in prosecuting killer police (like in the case of George Floyd) ..
But my dealings with area police are overall positive; i.e. we're not all this stereotype of whatever is in your imaginations about "potential Kshama voters" when you post your obsessive SnM fantasies about KS -- or the homeless (when you're at the Seattle Times or reddit and can attack both). And while of course police brutality is an important subject, it's not the only subject - and I feel lately, like, while "the left" and "the right" duke it out constantly - we have things going on in OUR lives that are NEVER addressed by any of the politicians, even the ones I like.
I also don't agree with the defund movement in significant ways. Short of sitting down with the nuts and bolts of actual figures, I think redistribution of funding is moreso the approach. For example, I don't know why the police should be so militarized when people have basic protests per their 1st amendment rights (and if someone breaks the window of a small local business, deal with that one person, not the entire protest).
I also don't know why Seattle has to use/misuse 911 for every communication with the police if they want to get something done. What happened to calling the regular number and a cop actually pick up the phone?
I'm also opposed to having social workers replace a 911 police request unless I myself want that. I feel it's my fundamental right to have a cop, if I call 911 -- and I shouldn't even have to deal with a delay ITO answering questions about social workers.
There are also depts within the police that I think should have more funding - and which could be redirected from these militarized responses to protests -- or these costly sweeps of homeless encampments (RE issues that could have been easily prevented, even). One example, actually solving crimes like murder or rape. I also think SPD has to get out of some of these patrol cars and actually walk some beats. You just don't see certain things unless you're on foot. I think cops on bikes is good in certain areas, too -- and they should have more of them on trails like Burke Gilman, along with emergency phones for people who may not have a cell.
Anyway, just like I'm tired of the haters talking about Kshama or the homeless -- I'm tired of the never-ending issues about the police, and some of which seems pretty straightforward to me. But here a lot of us sit, with far more ordinary lives, watching these bullets fly back and forth, and while the ship keeps sinking.
Another point I'd like to make -- keep the park bathrooms open at night -- and pay city maintenance some more hours to maintain them. Along with some nighttime cops on bike (or foot, depending on the park) - not to harass homeless campers, but to make sure things are quiet and safe. These are no-brainer cost-effective solutions that could have prevented a fire that killed two people, defecation that's polluting Green Lake with e coli, and other petty nuisances and issues around public health and safety.
I think I would put a mayoral candidate at the top of my list of considerations if they would just promise to exercise executive authority to open the park bathrooms at night. It is literally sickening to me how inhumane it is to have so many homeless people camping there and to subject them to the degradation of keeping these bathrooms locked. And none of the so-called homeless advocates are even demanding this, as far as I'm aware. Don't tell me the money isn't there.
"The same people who hate Kshama generally hate the homeless and sound like they want them in ovens. Scary, even."
You're intelligent enough to be aware of your own malarkey.
Don't conflate annoyance with hate.
@37 the irony of your post is if you were to meet kshama in person and told her those things she would label you a tool of the right, a racist and an enemy of the movement and therein lies the problem with ideologues. If you are not 100% with them you must be against them. There is no nuance or compromise in the policies. There are plenty of candidates who would support your position on the homeless without also advocating for burning down society to rebuild it under their control.
@31: There is no strawman. The topic of this post is the attempt by voters in District 3 to recall CM Sawant, for three separate acts of malfeasance -- one of which she has already admitted to doing, a second with photographs of her doing, and a third about which she (and her supporters) have consistently lied. Should her status as a "very important local asset" over-ride these considerations, in the eyes of District 3's voters?
"But some of us don't live in your binary reality where credit for one cancels credit for another."
(Is that what you told your teacher, after you'd submitted an essay by Ralph Waldo Emerson under your name?) If you can find any quote by Sawant about $15 in Seattle prior to it going onto the ballot in SeaTac, please let us know. If you can't, then it wasn't her idea, now was it?
(Also, if you have to go back five-plus years to find something noteworthy in her record, aren't you really just making a fancy case for her to leave office?)
"But I didn't say anything about the City Council, did I."
From the headline of the post onwards, this is a thread about a recall effort against a sitting member of the Seattle City Council. (Is that also news to you?) If you're thinking about, say, recalling county supervisors somewhere in Wisconsin, then you should make that clear.
"...another one of your strawmen."
You really have no idea what that word means, do you?
"Though how did you feel about Sawant trying to recall Mayor Durkan? She would certainly qualify. So, I'm glad to see you volunteer for teaming up with Sawant instead! ;)"
Um, the recall effort against Mayor Durkan ended when our courts decided there were no grounds for it. So no, I'm not volunteering to team up for something that can't happen.
As far as how I feel about it, I'm glad that The Stranger, many supportive commenters here, and CM Sawant and her supporters, all agreed in advance that recall is a valid path for voters to take in Seattle.
@32: 'And it shows what happens when an elected leader is really "unbought" and "unbossed."'
This comment thread is a dialog about CM Sawant. To whom do you refer?
"Internal Socialist Alternative documents show it runs Sawant’s office and controls her vote."
CM Sawant is the very epitome of a "bought" and "bossed" elected leader. You really could not have picked a better local example.
@37: "I'm also glad the homeless have someone in their corner."
Is that why our local homeless population exploded since she joined our Council? They keep moving here because of her? If she was, say, recalled by voters, would that help solve our homeless problem?
Nope, you have not the slightest clue as to what "strawman" really means. Thanks for confirming that for us.
Please enjoy reading how Socialist Alternative bought -- and bosses! -- CM Sawant. Lots to read at that link!
@ 40 "Should her status as a "very important local asset" over-ride these considerations, in the eyes of District 3's voters?"
It's not about overriding YOUR considerations -- it's that YOUR considerations are nonsense - and to ME. I mean, a protest in front of the Mayor's secret address? Another protest inside City Hall? A recall for the 1st Amendment? Don't make me laugh.
"Is that what you told your teacher, after you'd submitted an essay by Ralph Waldo Emerson under your name?"
I think what we're talking about is more akin to a collective effort.
"If you can find any quote by Sawant about $15 in Seattle prior to it going onto the ballot in SeaTac, please let us know. If you can't, then it wasn't her idea, now was it?"
There you go again putting words in my mouth. I never said it was "her idea." I said @17 she is "someone who has even influenced issues at the national level (for ex, the fight for 15)."
You have quite the imagination. Try debating the actual person.
"this is a thread about a recall effort against a sitting member of the Seattle City Council."
You're the one who challenged me to find a recall effort against a neo-liberal, claiming you would joyfully support it BECAUSE you allegedly don't like neo-liberals. So I found you one, and then your ridiculous excuse was that the court wouldn't allow it AFTER the recall effort was established. Now you try to wiggle out by claiming that the subject was never the subject that you yourself established.
Own up: you love neo-liberals infesting our government, and you're only targeting Sawant because she isn't.
"You really have no idea what that word means, do you?"
You mean you don't and you want me to help you.
Here: a strawman is an argument advanced against an argument that was never made. For example, go back to where I wrote, "You have quite the imagination. Try debating the actual person." What they actually said, that is.
"'Internal Socialist Alternative documents show it runs Sawant’s office and controls her vote."
"CM Sawant is the very epitome of a "bought" and "bossed" elected leader. You really could not have picked a better local example."
I'm laughing at this. Your link is a description of Sawant's political party, "Socialist Alternative." How is an openly published description of her political party some big reveal? She's always run as a known member of Socialist Alternative, just as other candidates run as Democrats or Republicans or Greens or Libertarians or DSA or something else. And they all have teams of people who work together on issues, presumably from the same line of thinking, which usually means the same political party or similar.
The issue is the money in politics. She's not bought or bossed by corporations, by Wall Street - she doesn't answer to bankers or developers or the real estate brokers or, best of all, Jeff Bezos at Amazon. And I bet that is what really bothers you. ;)
@39 "the irony of your post is if you were to meet kshama in person and told her those things she would label you a tool of the right, a racist and an enemy of the movement and therein lies the problem with ideologues. If you are not 100% with them you must be against them. There is no nuance or compromise in the policies."
Well, that might be the case but I'm not dealing with Kshama personally or professionally - and I won't have to. I don't need her to like me or approve of me. I don't need to agree with her about everything either. I just think we need more elected leaders who have a take-no-prisoners, unapologetic attitude and who are willing to employ real leverage to achieve real change. I think people like her are good for the do-nothings we usually have in office. They should be acting more like her. Then we may start to actually get somewhere.
Are you familiar with the Force the Vote debate among progressives regarding progressive Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives? People are fed up because they want progressives to fight harder - to employ leverage - just the same way centrists and conservatives do. It's only an issue when progressives do it. It shouldn't be.
"There are plenty of candidates who would support your position on the homeless without also advocating for burning down society to rebuild it under their control."
I don't vote in her district anyway, though the socialists don't want to "burn society down," the general view being, that is what the capitalists are actually doing - kind of like steering us straight towards the iceberg in the Titanic.
And I know that you do not have to be Kshama Sawant to support a suggestion to open the effin public bathrooms for homeless campers at night, add some hours to city maintenance (for the bathrooms) and put a few night cops on bikes or foot passing through at intervals (not to harass, just to make sure it's safe and quiet). You just need to be a decent human being with some common sense and basic intelligence. But here we still are - and the bathrooms still aren't open, e coli is in Green Lake, and some people's children will be swimming in it this hot week. So why doesn't some adult in the room (if there are any) minimally just go down with a key and unlock them?
@38 It's not malarkey. Reverend Barber himself from the Poor People's Campaign has spoken out about it in Seattle - the vile hatred targeting the homeless on Seattle internet forums. That's how bad it is. A major Civil Rights leader has even intervened.
@40 BTW tensor, I think your suggestion that the "homeless population has exploded" because of Kshama Sawant is the most ridiculous thing you've asserted yet. This is happening all over the country. It really shows a certain level of obsession and fanaticism with you, and ITO Kshama Sawant. You really need to get a grip.
@43: Complaining about trash, needles, and crimes in the encampments is hardly hate. It's reality. We can still love the homeless but call out the problems.
@45 I think "thou doth protest too much." I even cited Rev Barber.
"trash, needles and crime"
That's all you ever say, but whenever people propose democratic and humane solutions, nothing, it seems (short of driving them out-of-town on a rail? Or a concentration camp?) will do. Like most bigots, you seek to drive stereotyping, and sweeping generalizations, and which leads to rising hatred.
I'm not saying these problems don't exist, but there's plenty of "trash, needles and crime" without homelessness. Like, Komo news finds one needle in Greenlake. How do they know it wasn't left there by someone who isn't homeless? Sure, some homeless persons are drug users. But plenty aren't, and there are more people at GL who aren't.
And besides the fact you don't have hard data, there's evidence to support that this is not the case in all homeless encampments. Like, video tours on youtube, and taped discussions with residents, and even with neighboring housed residents who support an encampment's presence and oppose its eviction.
But, sure, if you deny people even the simple dignity of a public toilet that's standing there 100 feet away, and at night, they are going to have relieve themselves somewhere. And maybe the lake you want to swim in. Or the doorway you need to walk through.
You want your cake and to eat it too. These people aren't homeless because there's a park. They're homeless because housing costs too much. Something in terms of money - is going to have to give somewhere, and with respect to the principle that these are human beings with fundamental civil rights. Homelessness is not a crime, and being homeless does not make you a criminal.
@46 "Sure, some homeless persons are drug users. But plenty aren't, and there are more people at GL who aren't."
To make that a little clearer, "Sure, some homeless persons are drug users. But plenty [of drug users] aren't [homeless], and there are more people at GL who aren't [homeless]."
To drive my point home further, and how data is definitively collected, look at the masks that people litter with. I'm guessing these are mostly housed people littering - and especially since these are masks that cost money homeless people do not have. When they do have these masks, they unfortunately have to reuse them again and again - much more than other people; they hang on to them.
Which leads me to another point about the importance of toilets and e coli in the lake - and during a pandemic we're not out of the woods on yet. One great means of transmission for covid is feces or urine -- and covid survives in untreated water well.
These public health issues are no-brainers. In addition to the human decency and dignity, no one should making a "'moral point" about worthiness or deservingness at the expense of basic sanitation affecting all of us -- and, in during a pandemic, too.
I think we should thank her for her service, wish her well and wave good bye.
Time for change...something more suitable to the situation and dire conditions.
Perhaps something a little more main steam .... a new council member with common sense, maybe one who believe in the rule of law, moderate to conservative just to change the "group think" of our present council and somebody who has a basic understanding of economics.
@41: "It's not about overriding YOUR considerations..."
I didn't say it was. I was comparing your claim about CM Sawant being "a very important local asset," to the three articles of malfeasance in the Recall Sawant petition. You seem to have finally given an answer, although not a complete or factual one:
"I mean, a protest in front of the Mayor's secret address? Another protest inside City Hall? A recall for the 1st Amendment?"
The 1st Amendment is not an issue. Repeated abuses of power by an elected official is the issue here. The Recall Sawant petition alleges she abused her power by: first, using city resources to promote a ballot initiative; second, opening City Hall when it was closed for COVID, and third, revealing protected information to Socialist Alternative. She's already admitted to the first, been photographed doing the second, and repeatedly lied about the third. You seem to think none of this matters, but it's your opinion which does not matter.
"I think what we're talking about is more akin to a collective effort."
Yes, one made by the voters of Seatac, then some voters in Seattle. CM Sawant came along later, and co-opted their efforts.
"So I found you one, and then your ridiculous excuse was that the court wouldn't allow it AFTER the recall effort was established."
It's not any kind of excuse. You said we should recall politicians other than CM Sawant. I asked for examples, and you gave one, Mayor Durkan. But Mayor Durkan will not be recalled, so she's not an example. You still haven't told us who, if anyone, you were talking about.
"She's always run as a known member of Socialist Alternative, just as other candidates run as Democrats or Republicans or Greens or Libertarians or DSA or something else."
Oh, so either you didn't read the article, or you didn't understand it. The author gives reasons why Socialist Alternative is not like those other organizations. It is not open for anyone to join, it does not reveal who donates to it, and it does not reveal internal deliberations -- such as the internal debates which dictate to CM Sawant how she will vote, and even what she will say (!). The documents also reveal Socialist Alternative giving things of value to her husband, Calvin Priest. Thus, she is our ultimate local example of an elected official who is bought and bossed by a shadowy special interest group. You just didn't know it.
@43: "Reverend Barber himself from the Poor People's Campaign has spoken out about it in Seattle - the vile hatred targeting the homeless on Seattle internet forums."
You haven't provided a quote from him, and "internet forums"? Really? Thanks for the laugh. You have here yourself repeatedly demonstrated the utter worthlessness of comments on an internet forum. You haven't even come close to showing anyone in Seattle wants to be a Nazi-style executioner -- an inflammatory and ludicrous accusation against your fellow citizens, which you have made multiple times in this thread alone.
You seem to have a real desperate need to vilify and demonize anyone who dares voice the slightest disagreement with you. Little wonder you admire CM Sawant; it's her main claim to fame.
@49 Your recall petition is not a source of authority, but a source of opinion. How absurd you'd employ it as the former in a debate.
"your opinion doesn't matter"
Apparently, too, you think the opinion of the voters in Sawant's district doesn't matter either -- the voters you wish to override. They didn't jump-start this campaign. According to local news, it came from the outside the district.
"you seem to have a real desperate need to vilify and demonize anyone"
What is this kool-aide you are drinking. I haven't demonized anyone. You are the one demonizing Sawant as the red terror, demonizing the homeless, and making a slew of baseless personal attacks on a poster you don't know at all (myself), and just because I don't agree with you. I'm not even with the Sawant campaign.
BTW, why aren't you trying tor recall some Democrats and Republicans if you're so outraged by hidden donations? And what about the donations driving your recall effort? You sure have a multitude of double standards.
It sounds too like you are the one who is "desperate" - so I guess you must be doing poorly in your recall effort. I saw in the news that a lot people are returning your mailed petitions, unsigned, with rocks and pebbles, even, in the envelopes. They are rejecting your effort to usurp the will of the voters.
I think you're wasting Seattle's time with this recall. Time that could be better spent focusing on real issues affecting our communities.
Too bad if you don't like that I disagree with you.
@48 Clearly you don't read much. "Moderates" and "conservatives" are hardly people who care about the rule of law or have what could be described as "common sense." NTM getting a conservative or moderate elected in Sawant's district. You, too, need to lay off the kool-aid.
Well @ 51... I think you don't know any moderates or conservatives...not in this town. They tend to be very well educated, care deeply about the city, its citizens, are extremely generous and charitable..... you've probably never met one. You're just painting everybody with a Trump sized paint brush and that's what folks due when they don't want to listen or actually admit a point has been made.
They resort to name calling which suggests you are defensive and therefore my opinions are valid.
@52 I haven't engaged in any name-calling. I think you are actually rather disappointed that I didn't - so you just make it up. As for the rest of your silly and whiney post, apparently you will think whatever you want to think.
@53 I stand reproved.... you are correct... you just nastily suggested I lay off the kool aid... a real distinction to be be sure.
I'm not sure what you tend to imbibe...but I suspect it isn't kool -aid. Its like if somebody has a different opinion than your mantra, you get all harshed out.
I'm sure you are one of more cuddly far left socialist in town...and in the fullness of time you might even develop into a fully discredited communist.
I feel everybody can be useful and contribute, in your case it will take considerably more thought until I come up with something practicable.
But I remain hopefully.
@54 Red-baiting isn't "nasty?" I think you have a bad case of projection, as there's a big difference between "that" and your horror at being told to "lay off the kool-aide." You just kinda prove my point. And for what? You can't make one logical point in an argument - you just make personal attacks - proving, too, who is the actually the extremist.
@50: "Your recall petition is not a source of authority, but a source of opinion. How absurd you'd employ it as the former in a debate."
First, it's not "my" recall petition. I had nothing to do with filing it, defending it in court, nor do I collect signatures for it. I have sent the Recall Sawant campaign no contributions of any kind. Try debating the actual person.
Second, I very clearly wrote the "Recall Sawant petition alleges she abused her power..." I neither wrote nor implied the petition itself was the source of facts. If you have any doubt of any kind whatsoever she clearly performed at least two of the abusive acts the petition alleges, please let me know, and I'll post the urls here. (Please note that her having performed even one of them completely satisfies the factual and legal requirements for recalling her.)
"...the opinion of the voters in Sawant's district doesn't matter either..."
The opinion of the voters in District 3 is the only thing that matters. If they choose to recall her, she is gone. If they choose not to, she remains in office. The decision is theirs alone.
"They didn't jump-start this campaign. According to local news, it came from the outside the district. "
Is that the same local news you were just deriding, @46, for (you claimed) reporting speculation as fact to further their agenda? Or is this a local news so flawlessly perfect, we can believe them without qualification? Since you have yet to cite or quote them, it's impossible for any reader to determine. Assertions made without evidence will be dismissed without evidence, so no matter.
"I haven't demonized anyone."
@37: "The same people who hate Kshama generally hate the homeless and sound like they want them in ovens."
@46: "Or a concentration camp?"
If you hate your fellow citizens, or lack factual rebuttals to their arguments, or both, to the point where you simply cannot refrain from calling them Nazis, then just flat-out call them Nazis -- and own it when you get called on it. Otherwise, you'll continue looking both abusive and cowardly. Your choice.
"...demonizing Sawant as the red terror,"
Quote me saying anything of the kind. You can't, of course. Try debating the actual person.
"...demonizing the homeless,"
"...recall some Democrats and Republicans if you're so outraged by hidden donations?"
The Recall Sawant effort has nothing to do with Socialist Alternative's long-standing policy against practicing the transparency required of Democrats, Republicans, and other actual political parties. I'm outraged by hidden donations because of what we've learned about CM Sawant: Socialist Alternative has given things of value to her husband, and she votes (and speaks!) the way they tell her to do. She's therefore the perfect example of the "bought and bossed" politician you claim not to like. Why aren't you outraged?
"And what about the donations driving your recall effort?"
It's not my recall effort. (Try debating the actual person.) If Recall Sawant has not complied with the PDC's reporting requirements, then they can suffer the consequences.
"...must be doing poorly in your recall effort."
It's not my recall effort. (Try debating the actual person.)
"I saw in the news that a lot people are returning your mailed petitions, unsigned, with rocks and pebbles, even, in the envelopes."
That certainly sounds like the same news you derided @46, all right. Also, it's not my recall effort. (Try debating the actual person.)
"They are rejecting your effort to usurp the will of the voters."
Also, the only reason the recall effort can even exist are the actions taken by voters in District 3. (Are they somehow usurping their own will?)
"I think you're wasting Seattle's time with this recall."
The voters of District 3 (not "Seattle") will decide if it is worth their time. What you think about their decision does not matter in the slightest.
'"...the opinion of the voters in Sawant's district doesn't matter either..."
'The opinion of the voters in District 3 is the only thing that matters. If they choose to recall her, she is gone. If they choose not to, she remains in office. The decision is theirs alone.'
No, I said that YOU don't care about the opinion of the voters in Sawant's district. You're a fraud. Everyone has to agree with you for you to "care" about their opinion. And this little posting stunt of yours implicitly lying about my post (as you continue to do throughout the rest of your self-inflated diatribe) shows how dishonestly you post in general.
I'm not here to argue with you and your various sock puppets about what kind of person I am. I don't care what you think about me.
You're in good company, one supposes, only with those squarely on your fanatic side - including those publishing racist and sexist caricatures and distorted propaganda photos of Kshama Sawant - not unlike caricatures and photos that distorted Hillary Clinton or Barack and Michelle Obama or more recently, AOC. What kind of person does that make you?
I think you're very frightened by the idea that others might see that people disagreeing to this recall are not the 1 dimensional stereotypes you'd like to paint them out as. Not that anyone is bothering to read this "conversation," but you seem so paranoid, I wouldn't put it past you.
All I knew when this conversation started was I disagreed with your recall. I even expressed what some would consider a number of "conservative" opinions. You've been given every opportunity to connect in a positive manner and persuade me. Yet the only thing you've convinced me of, is that I not only disagree with your campaign, at this point, I even find it ugly.
You and your puppets are a total waste of time to post with. I suggest you get yourself some psychiatric help, buster - and that you also go jump in Green Lake. BYE
@57: "No, I said that YOU don't care about the opinion of the voters in Sawant's district."
And you were completely wrong about that, which is the very reason why I re-iterated my respect for the voters of District 3, who alone hold the power to recall CM Sawant. You're the one who doesn't respect them, hence your dark mutterings about how they didn't start the recall effort, mutterings which you won't -- or can't, and you know it -- support with an actual citation.
"And this little posting stunt of yours implicitly lying about my post ..."
Is this stunt anything like your repeated, groundless, and false claim I'm part of (or somehow own) the Recall Sawant effort?
"What kind of person does that make you?"
Not the kind who repeatedly and intentionally compares his fellow citizens to Nazis -- yet somehow remains miserably lacking of the guts to admit to it when called on it. As for your little guilt-by-(imagined)-association accusation against me, who cares? Assertions made without evidence will continue to be dismissed without evidence.
'I even expressed what some would consider a number of "conservative" opinions.'
@51: '"Moderates" and "conservatives" are hardly people who care about the rule of law or have what could be described as "common sense."'
"I'm not here to argue with you and your various sock puppets about what kind of person I am. [...] You and your puppets are a total waste of time to post with."
Yeah, it can't possibly be that a commenter who repeatedly compares his fellow citizens to history's most racist mass murderers somehow gets a lot of push-back from multiple sources; Okham's Razor can allow only a sockpuppet army as the one true explanation. (Your ludicrous belief, about your being worth that much time and effort, only adds to the humor value.)
My own personal conclusion is you are a member of Socialist Alternative, or deeply sympathize with them. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but then pretending to be just another citizen would be intentionally deceptive. Let's look at the evidence:
Your hagiographic description of CM Sawant @17 used Socialist Alternative's internal rhetoric, "the fight for 15";
Your description of CM Sawant as '"unbought" and "unbossed."' She's exactly the opposite, as Socialist Alternative's own internal documents show;
Your refusal to recognize everything these documents actually show;
The only example you gave of an office-holder deserving of recall was Mayor Durkan. Mayor Durkan won't be recalled, and she delivered the most humiliating defeat CM Sawant has (yet) received;
Wrongly attributing to me the quote about "red terror," which hasn't been in American political parlance for almost seventy years (!), and refers ultimately to human-rights abuses, intentionally committed and on a vast scale by the Bolsheviks in Russia, during their revolution there - a revolution CM Sawant has stated she admires.
You're clearly terrified the voters of District 3 will recall her, for her abuses of the power they alone granted her. Hence your insulting innuendo, claiming the voters of District 3 are pawns of unidentified outsiders; your false claim the 1st Amendment protects her from any consequences for her abuses; and your lack of interest in discussing the evidence for recalling her. You also persistently and intentionally demean the recall effort by falsely calling it mine, instead of what it really is: a rational and ethical response from voters of District 3 to her abuses of power since the last time they granted power to her.
Nothing conclusive, of course, but it would explain your chronic dishonesty here.
I use "conservative" and "moderate" with quotations and invariably tongue-in-cheek. Apart from your whiny lap poodle, you are certainly bright enough to have understood. Many so-called conservatives and moderates hide behind these terms nowadays when they are actually right-wing radicals. Like yourself, apparently.
I reject your flimsy rationales for this recall campaign as a smokescreen you yourself have gloriously revealed is a certain case. Your recall is driven by the same outside money and influence that tried to usurp the will of those local district voters in the original re-election, which Sawant won despite Bezos and his enormous wealth and presumption - and to national acclaim in the progressive community. I too give both Sawant and her district credit for that accomplishment. They wiped the floor with rabid notions like your own.
"My own personal conclusion is you are a member of Socialist Alternative, or deeply sympathize with them. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but then pretending to be just another citizen would be intentionally deceptive. Let's look at the evidence:"
I'm just as American as you, tensor. I wouldn't dignify the spirit of the rest of those statements with a response one way or the other. As far as I'm concerned, you can take yours or any local Joe McCarthy committee and put it where the sun doesn't shine.
Your profile here on The Strangers shows you have posted thousands of times on this forum, but a search of these rants does not reveal even one post in support of impeaching Trump -- a person accused of rape and sexual harassment in the double digits, including a 13 year old child. Acts he even boasted about on audio. Not to mention his open racism and contempt for the disabled, the likelihood that he was in grotesque violation of the emoluments clause to the U.S. Constitution, plus he even paid a prostitute hush money in order to deceive the American public. He was originally from N.Y. but he lost by grand slam up and down the eastern seaboard ... why? Because everyone on the east coast knows he's mob.
But there you are ... far more upset by Kshama Sawant and anti-Iraq War Socialist Alternative.
Again, I suggest you seek help, tensor. I see you have certain sensitivities and perceptions, but you have so much all-mixed-up and turned-upside-down with your own personal baggage. You're lost in a right-wing fantasy world.
"Yeah, it can't possibly be that a commenter who repeatedly compares his fellow citizens to history's most racist mass murderers somehow gets a lot of push-back from multiple sources"
Unless you're confessing something about yourself, any time you want to share this described post you otherwise pulled from your dreamworld, go ahead. They also have medications, ya know, that can help with that.
"Your ludicrous belief, about your being worth that much time and effort, only adds to the humor value"
You're the one who keeps posting to me. Feel free to change my ludicrous belief and stop.
@59: 'I use "conservative" and "moderate" with quotations and invariably tongue-in-cheek.'
Nice try. There's no evidence of humor in your comment @51. But as always, when called on your hateful rhetoric, you dodge and deny:
"Unless you're confessing something about yourself, any time you want to share this described post you otherwise pulled from your dreamworld, go ahead."
I've already done this, @56, after you falsely claimed never to have demonized anyone:
'@37: "The same people who hate Kshama generally hate the homeless and sound like they want them in ovens."
'@46: "Or a concentration camp?"'
And I'm not even the only one in this thread who noticed. @38 called you on it as well, and you "responded" @43 by claiming that someone sometime had said something that somehow supported your extremist rhetoric. Your attempt to deny something you have yourself admitted to writing brings you to newly risible heights of irresponsibility and desperation. Thanks (again) for the laughs.
"I'm just as American as you, tensor."
I neither said nor implied otherwise, for which you compared me to Joe McCarthy. Had you read the very material you'd just quoted from me (!), you would have seen I explicitly stated there was nothing wrong with being a member of Socialist Alternative -- but that you should reveal your membership if you're publicly supporting another member, in this case CM Sawant. To do otherwise is intentionally deceptive, but you don't seem to have a problem with that.
"Your profile here on The Strangers shows you have posted thousands of times on this forum, but a search of these rants does not reveal even one post in support of impeaching Trump..."
Your search skills seem to match your rhetorical ones:
"I'm personally proud my own Member of Congress here in Washington state voted for impeachment.
"That single article passed, and now our Senate must hold a trial, to decide if our House was correct in charging President Trump with instigating the seditious violence which menaced them last week. If they agree, then he'll be removed from office, stripped of all post-Presidential benefits, and barred from holding office again. Let's get going to ensure Washington state's Senators vote to do just that.
"tensor on January 13, 2021 at 4:01 PM"
"You're the one who keeps posting to me."
Because you keep making false statements about what I have and have not written. When you stop doing that, I'll stop citing what I actually wrote. Until then, I will continue to defend myself against your ignorance, misrepresentations, and outright lies.
@60 LMAO at your one cautious "objection" to Trump's presidency a week before he leaves office and out of thousands of posts that include the entire period this Nazi was in office, and leading up to, as well.
NTM your polite and deferential reference to that elected Trumpster (which you of course leave out) as you spit your malicious bile in one rant after the next to a poster you don't even know - like a child having a temper tantrum - and because I object to your flimsy smokescreen rationales for a Sawant recall.
I don't care about your property interests, you pompous fraud. I support a full rent freeze and rent control like they've had in New York. That, to you, along with 24/7 public bathrooms, (and so the homeless don't have to shit in Greenlake) is probably "socialism," along with anyone who understands, like you understand quite well (but you being the only ones allowed to understand, huh?) - that it's a fight. Sawant understands this, too, and I bet that's what scares you and your gang the most. Cus .. what if everyone starts to understands this?
I think you're going to lose your wasteful, conceited, presumptuous, gentrification-loving recall fight. And yes you are a Joe McCarthyite. You've been red-baiting the entire time you've been posting, honey - and the only liar is yourself.
Have a nice day sputtering in your demented tub of beotchy spite and hate. I hope a homeless person pisses on your front door and a university radical rips down your "Recall Sawant" sign. If anyone deserves it, it would be you.
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