«Most every major city is seeing this rise in gun violence, even the ones run by Republicans, even the ones where police aren't leaving.»
Violent crime is the Sign ☺ the Times: rampant health pandemic, high poverty, high unemployment, high political division, high income disparity.
To stop violent crime one must address those causes. All else is opportunistic blather.
"The indifference shown to my colleagues is disgraceful."
He's speaking to the elected officials in the room, but the same could be said for the audience behind him. Look how all but one are staring at their phones, crafting their own narrative instead of listening to the actual person talking. When he bangs his hand, you can see them all jump out of their device trance.
There are conservative cities? Like where, Reststop, Missouri?
And add a nice thick layer of city council indifferences, massive hostility towards cops from mayors, the media, all except for the actual population who wants more cops, not fewer. Nobody on the left has bothered to answer one of their own: Al Sharpton's take on how "latte liberals" and the bone-headed "defund the police" has left communities in ruins. Al's right - Who wants to be a cop in today's America? He's the one know know more about George Floyd, BLM, and race relations that any of the blowhards here on Slog.
It won't be long before brazen robbers waltz in Seattle shops in broad daylight and scoop up merchandise just like their doing in SF. Why not? Crime of opportunity, fewer cops. Who knew?
Oh, but so many (but dwinding) number of Sloggers claim their understanding of cops is solid and undebatable just by spewing broad generalizations (all bad apples) and superlatives of the most insane and sinister nature against every society's need to keep peoples safe.
Let us reap what is sown.
@8: Except the rates of violent crime fell during the same period in most countries outside the US. So the explanation that it's a downstream effect of the pandemic seems incomplete.
@9 the spin has already begun on this narrative and Rich is now going to carry Herbold's water and help her further. The story that the council didn't defund the police is technically true but to pretend the hyperbole and toxic atmosphere generated by the council and activists in the community didn't lead to a de facto defunding of the police requires a PHD in cognitive dissonance to pass muster. Herbold and the rest of her colleagues did their damndest last summer to crater morale in the police department and any officer with options did what was in their own best interest and looked to transfer to somewhere where they were actually wanted. Now we have a public safety crisis with no "community led" alternatives ready to stand up and a massive shortage of SPD that will not be getting better any time soon. This is what you get when you make performative declarations and knee jerk decisions based on limited data. Although to hear Blip tell it this is all normal so we shouldn't be worrying at all. Just let a few more people get shot up over the summer and things will calm down in the fall. Sounds great.
It must be a really painful experience to realize that the Republicans you have always voted for and put in power DO NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU!!! I mean these cops who got beaten and nearly killed who are testifying before Congress must be having a time coming to terms with the fact that when it comes down to brass tacks, they are just as much disposable garbage as all other human beings to the Rethugs.
Will they continue to vote for them, believing the Republicans are the party of "law and order" now that they know it means they can and will be thrown under the bus JUST AS QUICKLY AND WITH JUST AS MUCH DISDAIN AND DEPRAVED INDIFFERENCE TO THEIR LIVES AS BLACK PEOPLE AND PROTESTERS!!!???
What a fucking kick in the nut sack that must be.
But I'd bet my life they still vote Republican.
@14: "Talking about defunding the police is not the same thing as literally defunding the police."
A distinction without a difference to most people. But go ahead and say how stupid people are for not getting it.
@14 Trump would like your logic. Just because he talked about storming the capitol he didn't expect people to actually do it. The fact that all his supporters ran amok was completely unrelated. See what I did there?
C'mon man. Words have impact. When the council openly states they are going to defund the police, treat officers like they are an enemy of the state and create a toxic culture and half the department leaves for other jobs then have de facto defunded the police even if the budget doesn't reflect that on the books. As for your data request unfortunately we'll have to put a pause on that and revisit this thread if 3-5 years when we can see the true fallout of these actions. As anyone with any experience in working with data will tell you a small sample size is not statistically significant enough to draw conclusions from and deduce trends. Too bad our city council didn't pull their heads out of their asses long enough to learn that for themselves.
@14 also we have already moved on from the Walgreens story in SF and are now using the TJ Maxx video from LA as a sign of the apocalypse.
@16: A famous quote in regard to messaging goes "If you're explaining, you're losing."
The fact that you're trying to parse it proves my point.
@20: So much winning, you'll get tired of all the winning! Seriously, how pathetic is it that you come here every day to try desperately to get noticed and "own the libs?" I guess that's some kind of a substitute for having an actual life.
If you need a good lol, watch Gaetz get chased out of his presser being screamed at, "Are you a pedo?" all the way to his awaiting vehicle.
I have the luxury of being a teeny-tiny bit more worried about climate change than crime and policing, but I see the latter is a much more popular topic of discussion here.
So, at the risk of fanning the flames (forgive the climate change reference), here's an interesting piece that just posted on that notorious right-wing, white supremacist rag, The Atlantic, "Progressive Denial Won’t Stop Violent Crime:"
@21: My commentary is a point of view for which you can provide a rebuttal at any time.
@20. And how did Reagan explain the Iran Contra? If you consider being lied to without an explanation winning, you're the one getting hoodwinked with truthiness. Any victory that subverts the truth is hollow, ephemeral, and without honor or wisdom.
@24: The "Defund the police" sloganeering was inherently a rhetorical gimmick or as you describe a maneuver, and failed miserably with unintended consequences.
Far more agreed with "Reform the police" but I guess that just wasn't sexy enough.
@25. Providing a rebuttal to your empty screed would be redundant.
@22 Required hilarity:
RE: "Anyway, good thing Democrats, who control all three branches of government for a few more minutes, are using their power to make structural improvements on the system to ensure free and fair elections in all 50 states. Wait, what's that? They're actually not doing any of that? Thanks, Democrats!"
The democrats only control the executive branch.
They nominally "control" the legislative branch, except that they're limited to legislation that only needs a simple majority to pass, which isn't much, and certainly isn't voting rights legislation.
Although nobody "controls" the judicial branch, the current SCOTUS and many lower courts have been packed by conservatives.
The reason no free and fair election legislation has passed is entirely due to the fascists. The democrats can't pass it by themselves. It's factually impossible.
@13 If you think the Democrats care about you, you're sorely mistaken. They don't.
@24 No I'm conflating Trump encouraging his minions to rush the capitol and they actually following through with it because they believe in what he was saying with the SPD leaving the city because they believe the council's rhetoric regarding defunding. It doesn't matter if neither side actually followed through with an action or had any knowledge that their words would generate the intended result. What matters is that they have power and their words had credibility to the audience and that audience took action because they believed there would be follow through. In the case of the SCC despite the fact they were unable to actually defund the police a full 50% or lay off officers out of order the rank and file believed their intent and acted ahead of any action by the council. So for Rich, Herbold et al to now try to rewrite that narrative to claim they didn't actually "defund" the police is complete and utter bullshit and if you want to perpetrate and prop up that feel free but I and many others on this board will continue to call bullshit every time we see it.
As for the rest of your argument we don't know if the defund mantra led to a higher murder rate nor do we know if this is just a blip (haha great pun) or the start of sustained trend. Like I said previously you'll have to wait a couple of years to look back and see. What I do know though is dismissing it as "normal" in the moment is pretty insensitive to the victims of said violence. The only thing we can say for certain right now is that the SCC shot their mouths off and wrote a bunch of checks their butts can't cash, many officers took those words to heart and left Seattle and now we have an epidemic of gun violence, an understaffed public safety agency and none of the alternatives we were promised ready to even make a dent in it. At this point the cow has left the barn. Hiring back those officers (if you agree that is what we should do) will take years due to the recruitment cycle and the same can be said for standing up the alternatives, We all have to hope this is an aberration and will abate on its own because the actions and words of the SCC have ensured there is no one left to save the day.
@13 xina +1 for the WIN!
@32: Ah. Still hiding in your tree fort, protecting your guns, and fahtin' fer yer Free Dumbs, Swifty? What happens when RepubliKKKan insurrectionist neofascists throw YOU under the bus, too?
I'm all for hurtling all RepubliKKKans and their rabidly stupid lackeys into outer space one way, on the condition that they never return to Earth. Think of all the dicks we'd be spared.
@14 -- I'll take up that challenge. What city has defunded the police, and what was the result? Let's see ... Camden, New Jersey. They completely dissolved the police department and started from scratch. The result? Less crime, and less police misconduct. Citation: https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/disband-police-camden-new-jersey-trnd/index.html
We have not defunded the police. All we've done is talk about it. Somehow, Raindrop thinks that is the same. What an idiotic argument. I talk all the time about bringing back the Sonics. But I can't go to a fucking game. See the difference, dipshit?
But wait, the argument is that all this talk hurt the poor wittle cops feelings. A professional police force, paid big bucks to literally deal with assholes all the time, can't handle a little well justified criticism. What kind of a fucking cop is that? Seriously, if they can't take the criticism, then by all means, go patrol the mean streets of Mill Creek, or wherever your pansy-ass ended up. Cops should have thick skin. Cops should be able to be cursed out by a drunk asshole on a Saturday night, and still have the wherewithal to handle the situation rationally, not panic and quit. Yes, you are Rodney Dangerfield -- you get no respect. Deal with it. Join the club. Do you think people love seeing the dentist? Fuck no. Yet good dentists, like good cops, sleep well at night knowing they did good.
Why is that so hard for these cops? Maybe because some of them aren't good cops. Or maybe a lot of these cops got tired of the bullshit. Their fellow cops, talking shit about the general public -- the public they still want to serve. Or maybe they just wanted to cash out. Who knows.
What we do know is that none of that had anything to do with the increase in crime. None of it. NONE. There is simply no correlation. Check the research if you doubt me.
Of course there isn't. The biggest increase in crime was in the murder rate. Do you really think people are sitting around saying "Hmmm, cops are disgruntled, not really doing their job ... I think now would be a great time to murder someone". Fuck, get a clue. It is likely a combination of things, but the biggest factor is likely that we have a lot more guns. Canada saw a rise in the murder rate during Covid, but not like us. The Floyd protests followed by the attacks on Asian Americans led a lot of people to get guns. People of color feared white extremists (and in many cases, cops) while white extremists feared people of color. A lot of people got guns, which just makes it easier to kill someone.
@20, @25, and @27: Unless you mean the tip of your head, you really have no point, Elmer. Library paste really isn't among the four food groups, just like FOX-TeeVee isn't a reliable news source. KKKorporate RepubliKKKans and their QAnon goon squad blindsided you again, ya ultra maroon.
@42: eat dirt and die trash
@43: Really, Elmer. Are you 40 going on 14?
@44: I wish
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