Comments

1

Hi Matt,
No idea if you read the comments, but if you do, the military was worse than this, and as bad as the Army was, the U.S. Navy was far worse.
The naval Investigative Service (NIS) the agency that was later renamed NCIS (yes the one with the TV shows) would hire men to entrap USN sailors, who then often received long prison sentences.

In 1957 the N.I.S. camped out on the roof of a neighbor of a retired (read that last word again) admiral, so that they could spy on his bedroom, he was court-martialed, and striped of his rank, pension and retirement benefits.

In the 1970's N.I.S. spied on the woman's showers aboard the U.S.S. Norton Sound, and then arrested several women for Gay sex.

Since the U.S.N. discharged most of it's Gay service members at Treasure Island, the military persecution of Gays, was one of the reason San Francisco had such a large Gay population.

Though in better news for seagoing Gays, check out the term Sea Queens

2

I served 8 years in the early 1980s, when the total ban was still in place. At that time, the military actively hunted down gays. If we were caught, the NIS routinely pressured gays they caught to disclose other gay service members in exchange for shorter prison sentences. They often served a month or more in jail, and then usually given a dishonorable discharge (which gives you a federal felony record, and strips away most veteran benefits). I knew several people who were imprisoned and discharged like this. This was disastrous for most gay veterans. Having a federal felony record, a dishonorable discharge, and being publicly outed like that could ruin. your life. By the 1980s, I think they had stopped stripping people of rank, though that didn't have much practical impact, except to retired veterans. It didn't matter if you retained your rank if you were imprisoned and then given a dishonorable discharge.

Though I was never caught or punished, it was a pretty horrible experience. I was constantly stressed out, worried about being caught. I rigidly compartmentalized my life, living a total double life, my work life and my personal life. Nobody at work knew I was gay. None of my gay friends knew I was in the military. Most people understand how stressful work life would be, but trying to date was super stressful too. I was constantly worried that I might be blackmailed if I dated the wrong guy. I did have one guy talk about blackmailing me or just outing me to my commanding officer out of spite, but he never followed through on his threat.

DADT was stupid, but it was actually a significant improvement. It did reduce (but not completely eliminate) witch hunts. It got rid of the dishonorable discharge and felony record, which was huge. It eliminated prison time. Gays were still discharged almost immediately, but it was an "administrative" discharge, which was neutral and generic, and had no social stigma attached to it. Not great, obviously, but way better than before DADT. Under DADT, gays were still discharged at about the same rate as when I served, but the process was much less punitive. It still essentially required gay service members to stay in the closet or be discharged, which still made them vulnerable to blackmail.

3

Matt, are you confusing Richard Ely with Ron Ely, who starred in the 1960's TV version of "Tarzan", the execrable 1975 George Pal film "Doc Savage: The Man of Bronze", and was a two time Miss America Pageant host? Cuz the latter was def a "hunky heartthrob", whereas the former had a smattering of television & soap opera guest star appearances.

4

MASH also predicted the culture wars we still live with. It was essentially the 50s versus the 60s. It was similar to the generation gap displayed on All in the Family, but with characters the same age. The issues with homosexuality were quite similar to those of race and sex. Since the show was shown in the 70s, it often displayed situations that seemed ancient at the time (women or black people being treated as second class citizens). It seems like no one born or raised during the 70s would have such outdated opinions, but of course, America has a lot of slow people.

5

An earlier bureaucrat named Frank: Franklin Delano Roosevelt, ran a WWI witch hunt as Undersecretary of the Navy, employing the standard NKVD-like tactic of recruiting compromised sailors to seduce and report their shipmates in exchange for reduced sentences. This went on until the higher-ups discreetly informed FDR “Jesus Frank, they’re sailors. We just look the other way, okay?” What was FDR’s impetus? Probably bullying at Groton. The usual American focus on sexuality, gender, chastity, etc. but no concern on consent as should be.

6

My dad served in the Korean War, in a field hospital, and he told me there was at least one doctor there that "everyone knew" was gay.

And no one did anything about it, as far as he was aware. They needed doctors, apparently when people are dying they're more than happy to have gay people save their lives.

(This as told to me by my 93 year-old dad, who certainly has never been progressive-minded about sexual orientation)


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