Slog AM: New Orleans Battered by Ida, State Worker Union Wants Vaccine Delay, COVID Claims Yet Another Anti-Vax Radio Host

Comments

1

"Uh huh."

"How many is “additional”?"

"What are they going to do once they’re “out there”?"

"Out WHERE???"

Uh huh

2

"Also, someone was pistol-whipped in West Seattle."

Dear God, I can only imagine what sort of convoluted hot-take this is gonna provoke from molewacka.

3

unless they're sending out officers to slap guns out of people's hands, more cops aren't going to help much

4

State workers are stalling on getting vaxxed.

Why do TS readers have such blind faith in humanity?

5

@4:

Who - excepting yourself - thinks we have "such blind faith in humanity"? Especially when we're constantly subjected to people like YOU...

6

A cop available to slap a hatchet out of that woman's hands before she sliced and diced a mother and son would have been nice.

7

@3, Under Chief O'Toole, they the known fact that most gun violence is committed by a very small list of shooters, to advantage.

They would run warrant checks for the top 50 to 70 of these individuals. They would then actively seek them to arrest for outstanding warrants of all types. Everybody got put in jail, on lawful warrants (it didn't matter what they were for), so tempers could cool. It was made clear that the attention to their warrants would continue as long as shootings levels remained high.

No violations of civil rights. The action was taken on warrants issued by courts, with probable cause. If you don't have evidence to convict on the shootings (often the case), arrest them for unrelated warrants.

It takes a buttload of manpower to chase down warrant suspects.

8

@6, 'Tis why some people lawfully carry guns. A cop is too heavy to lug around.

9

“We don’t seem to care that we have these really high infection rates,” said Tim Spector, a professor of genetic epidemiology at King’s College London who has been leading a major study of COVID-19 symptoms. “It looks like we’re just accepting it now — that this is the price of freedom.”

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/britons-unfazed-by-high-covid-rates-weigh-their-price-of-freedom/

Humanism is blind-faith.

10

9 the word you're looking for is 'individualism' and it has nothing to do with faith and everything to do with a political philosophy that tells people 'freedom' means having no responsibility to anyone but themselves

11

7 the assumption that you can prevent murders with a dragnet for low-level crimes with the goal of sweeping all would-be murderers off the streets -- and, i guess, into jail forever? or at least until they decide they don't want to kill people anymore? but not long enough to violate their civil rights -- is also a form of blind faith, only instead of trusting humanity to do what's best for itself, you're placing all your trust in 'the system' to find the right people and imprison them for exactly the right length of time to keep them from murdering

12

Please say we are not going to start calling it “the WC.” That term has two more syllables than just “White Center.” If you’re gonna use an acronym, the letters must linguistically shorten the name, not lengthen it. A tie is allowed in some cases, but requires a judge’s ruling.

As for the quote about more cops, Chief Adrian Diaz said something more interesting yesterday while contextualizing the weekend’s bloodshed in the midst of this interminable pandemic: “human interaction is a perishable skill.” This is very true and insightful, and speaks to the main reason behind the nationwide increase in violent crime.

13

So to follow this through: 50-70 specific people will be thrown in jail for small crimes, where they will have time to reflect on their various resentments, and will also be told that the police will continue to badger them for low-level offenses as long as the murder rate in the city is "high"? and you think this is not only practical and effective, but constitutional? my god

14

@13, It is Constitutional to arrest someone for an outstanding warrant. Probable cause of the crime specified in the warrant has been determined by a judge.

It worked under the O'Toole Administration. It changed the behavior, at least in the short-run of the very small number of people that are involved in most shootings. When the behavior changed, their warrants got treated with the same general disinterest as all other warrants. They got their lifestyle back (an appeal to their own self-interest). When things started to heat up again, another crack-down.

LIVES WERE SAVED.

15

How to handle religious exemptions: dont. If your god wants you to harm other people, you need a new god. And a new job. Go away.

16

I would ask you to prove which LIVES WERE SAVED but you couldn't if you tried. In order to be an effective strategy these people would have to be permanently taken off the streets on the assumption that their past criminal behavior accurately predicts more serious crimes they have not yet committed, which is explicitly and fundamentally unconstitutional. In fact what you are describing is a major plot line in a number of mid-century speculative fiction novels about the creeping threat of totalitarianism.

Anyway the data i'm looking at calls o'toole's tenure a 'mixed bag' where violent crime rates actually increased in 3 of the 4 years this person was your police chief, so not sure exactly which LIVES WERE SAVED because a number of them were decidedly not

https://southseattleemerald.com/2017/12/04/seattle-crime-trends-a-mixed-bag-under-spd-chief-otoole/

also looking at the spd's crime dashboard (which incidentally is the worst data dashboard i have ever encountered in my life, no exaggeration), homicides didn't deviate much from the preceding years during the o'toole years, and fluctuated up and down from one year to the next. If you want to justify interning people prospectively for crimes they haven't actually committed you should have more to show for it than this.

https://www.seattle.gov/police/information-and-data/crime-dashboard

17

Poverty is the parent of crime, if you want less crime stop wasting so much money on militant cops and use it to address income inequality.

Also, thoughts and prayers for the South.

18

@17 how would you propose to actually accomplish this since every society has had income inequality from the dawn of time? In the interim I guess the people that are victimized should just stop bitching. The number one factor that prevents crime is the fear of getting caught and punished. Not the actual punishment itself. If police have a more visible presence in high crime areas crime will go down. It's that simple. Here's an article in NPR on it:

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/04/20/988769793/when-you-add-more-police-to-a-city-what-happens

I was wondering how Matt would spin the State Workers unions suing over the vaccine mandate. If it was the police union suing I'm sure they would be facists and all kinds of names but since its the entire state union they just want a reasonable time frame. The mental hurdles Matt must have gone through to justify the state workers suing Inslee over this must have ruined his weekend.

19

18 "every society has had income inequality from the dawn of time?"

Kind of hard for the ones that didnt have income to have income inequality.

20

10 That's why PWT love that idiotic Bobby McFee song and its lyric: "Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose"
It's a go-to redneck platitude.

21

15 - Religion makes certain people ineligible for their jobs. Nobody is telling them to change their religions... but do not expect the jobs, too.

22

@20: As well as many of the Seattle park campers.

23

@19 call it wealth inequality then. The bottom line is there has always been those who have more than others either because they just took everything and no one could do anything about it or they developed an idea that created value for others. This notion that we can not do anything about crime and predators in our society until we have magically solved inequality is ridiculous.

24

The ST article about the state labor union’s vaccine negotiations gives it the same nuance re: their desire to negotiate the terms first, because that seems to be an accurate description of their objections, whereas this article from the ST about vaccine hesitancy in police depts across the country suggests there is a more fundamental rejection of vaccine mandates in police departments more generally.

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/many-police-officers-spurn-coronavirus-vaccines-as-departments-avoid-mandates/

They’re not waiting to iron out the kinks, they are flat out refusing to require their officers to immunize themselves against the number one “line of duty” cause of death for the police, which really puts the debate over officer safety into perspective.

25

@24 That may be true but of course we can't know with any certainty. I saw the rally down in Olympia on the news and some of those people seemed like they were concerned about a bit more than timing. The truth is we don't know the motivations of either the police or the state workers. Like the general public there is probably a wide range of reasons/issues to push back against Inslee's mandate. Impugning the motives of either group adds nothing to the story except inserting the author's own bias.

26

Of course there is a breadth of opinion amongst the people who are represented by the union, but we’re talking about the formal position of the unions as voiced by their leadership, and the statements by the public sector & police unions are not comparable. I’ve never been in a union but it’s my understanding they vote on this stuff. If so it’s fair to call these statements representative of their collective opinion even if it’s not uniform.

29

@23

They is plenty of evidence that income inequality plays a huge role in violence (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1359178916302105). You can also look at the countries with low rates of violence, that also have relatively few police. To quote from this article (https://theweek.com/articles/918143/what-america-learn-from-nordic-police):

On the one hand, these countries have some of the lowest murder rates in the world ... These countries also have many fewer police relative to their population than the U.S., and vastly fewer people in prison.

What gives? Undoubtedly one major factor is the generous Nordic welfare state, which both provides material security to almost everyone in Nordic society, and keeps down inequality. Both material deprivation and especially inequality have long been known as contributing factors in crime — it should not be surprising that there is a strong relationship between inequality and violent crime across countries. <<

The article itself references several links. The fact that you dismiss what most criminologists consider a major factor for violent crime suggests you really don't know shit about the subject. Maybe you should do a little reading, before spouting out about it.

Oh, and you don't completely eliminate income inequality, you reduce it. Holy shit, that should be fucking obvious. The point being we should be more like the Nordic countries, which should be fucking obvious to anyone who has even a clue about public policy.

30

If you can make a life for yourself on the streets and sustain whatever infrastructure gets you access to your necessities, then none of you can truly comment on what being homeless is until you take the plunge and find your way in through and out of the other side of the river Styx and preserve your individuality. You can't handle that sort of complex lifestyle and your mind recoils in horror and dehumanization of true challenge, voluntary or otherwise. Maybe you don't have to dive in to understand what a ubiquitous occurrence it is with further concentration of wealth into big pretty explosions into orbit and armed fascists in real time at our doorsteps.

The truth is that without this infrastructure called society, particularly when you're pulling it apart by the seams, is that the bottom falls out on your ivory tower and you become less than homeless, you become so without the security of a society that will not prey on you or bend you to its will lest you become destructive and ferocious enough to fend off the elements and the snow and rain and outdoor creatures themselves then what do you know of your own limits and capacity for survival?

31

I'm not sure why people are so skeptical that more cops won't reduce murder.

In Chicago, mayor Lightfoot has decided to boost the police budget in 2021 beyond the $1.6 billion budget they currently spend on their 1,200 officers. That makes it the second highest police budget in the US and as you all know, there is no murder in Chicago, so we know for a fact higher budgets and more police will reduces murder.

Perhaps if the SPD is hard up due to Summer Vacations, they can pull some guys from the Sheriff Office who traditionally are entirely focused on asset forfeiture to focus on murder instead.

Sorry, for the KCSO I should have been more specific. I meant they can focus on STOPPING murder, rather than carrying it out:

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/parents-of-17-year-old-shot-and-killed-during-misguided-sting-by-king-county-sheriffs-deputies-sue-for-wrongful-death-outrage/

32

Yes, the i news linked article is very grim.
Among the many ironies to the end of the 20 year war in Afghanistan, is that Pakistan has long harbored the Taliban (and other terrorist groups)-and in doing so they have created a monster they cannot control.

33

@12: In think there's a lot to the point Diaz made.

That combined with over a year of having young people most likely to commit violence wandering around without work or school due to Covid-19 closures, all the programs designed to reduce violence shut down do to Covid-19 and while not verified, perhaps too many one time government checks used to buy firearms.

Great article in ProPublica about this that focuses in Philly, but its logic is not hard to extend to other cities in America, to include Seattle:

https://www.propublica.org/article/philadelphia-homicide-surge?utm_source=sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=dailynewsletter&utm_content=feature

It's relatively long, but worth the read. It covers the tragic death of a Mom's son due to gun violence along with the factors that led to it. A far more nuanced take on the escalation in homicide than police consistently trying to exploit the human tragedy and fear of others to get more cash and less accountability.

34

My issue here isn't with the mandating of vaccines. I'm all for that and there is a long history of the government requiring vaccinations for people (e.g. MMR). What I push back against is the continual bad faith bashing of public safety officials on these pages even when other entities are acting in a similar fashion or without knowing their motives.

@26 Blip I'll grant you the messaging has been different so we'll see how it unfolds as this progresses.

@28 Professor, as I stated my issue isn't with the mandate its with the demonization of public safety unions by giving the state workers a pass. Be consistent. Beyond that there is still a gap in vaccinations rates among minority communities. My criticism of Inslee was also completely valid. He continually moved the goalposts when it was politically expedient to do so. I don't believe for a second there will be a purge of state worker or teachers or police over vaccinations. He will find another one to change course.

@29 I have no doubt reducing income inequality will reduce crime but let's not pretend all crimes committed are crimes of poverty. There is always going to be predators in our midst. Reducing income inequality and enforcing public safety aren't mutually exclusive. In the meantime you can't let innocent people continue to be victimized while you are waiting for the perfect solution. I would also point out we are not like the Nordic countries and never will be and hoping we will change is just wishful thinking.

@31 That is such a bad faith statement. If the proof something works is the complete elimination of the problem it is designed to solve then I have a number of government programs and agencies we should stop pouring money into.

35

@30: Thanks for the perspective Garb.

I've never been homeless, but know given the wrong set of circumstances beyond my control it could have just as easily been me.

It takes guts to tell your story. I hope people are listening.

36

34: "If the proof something works is the complete elimination of the problem it is designed to solve then I have a number of government programs and agencies we should stop pouring money into."

The bad faith argument is coming from Diaz. He was asked about recent violence and used it as a platform to call for more cops. If Diaz had said no matter how many police we hire there will still be violence it would have been a more honest statement and I would not have provided the obvious response that more cops does not mean less violence.

37

@34 D13R, well said.

I applaud that you're willing to push back on the fringe left in the comment section each day with (mostly) rational and common sense points of view.

38

You see all these tattooed white people waving flags
scared of a vaccine
Um no I'm sorry I won't get your filthy godless injections (continues scleral tattoo)

39

As far as crime goes, there are so many issues involved, from where police prioritize resources, to the political establishment, to the way the judicial system works.

What anyone can see who doesn't have their head in the sand is that it's open season for non-violent crime. Criminals are walking into stores and clearing shelves of product and walking out. Criminals are, in broad daylight, in front of people taking pictures and videos of them, breaking into cars and cutting bike locks and making off with whatever they want, and they know unless there's a LEO at the scene, there will be no consequences. Get arrested for stealing mail, let out the next day, and then re-arrested that same day, and let out the next day. Rinse and repeat. Don't show up to court. Nothing will be done about it.

They keep lowering the bar. Even "minor" violent crime is treated with kid gloves. When there are no consequences, criminals will take advantage of it. Just like Republicans have and continue to do so.

40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaXRIJVMGbI

41

"COVID claims multiple anti-vax radio hosts."

Once again I have to say that I find it really hard to not do some kind of End Zone Dance & Spike the Ball when I read news like that. But I do try to be charitable & reconcile these two passages:

Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap"

Prov 24:17-18 "Do not rejoice when your enemy falls, and let not your heart be glad when he stumbles;
lest the LORD see it, and be displeased, and turn away his anger from him."

Who says that the Chinese are the only ones who know the universe is Yin & Yang at the exact same time. Not only the Hindus know about Karma.

42

@12 - the WC is kinda nice. the Water Closet of south seattle

43

@39: "Criminals are walking into stores and clearing shelves of product and walking out. Criminals are, in broad daylight, in front of people taking pictures and videos of them, breaking into cars and cutting bike locks and making off with whatever they want, and they know unless there's a LEO at the scene, there will be no consequences."

You'll notice in my posts that are critical of the police, I always include a link to the type of behavior I have a problem with. If you look at the link I provided, it's a story about the Sheriff Office carrying out a revenge killing on the wrong person. They were out to settle a personal score, lied in the warrant and committed a handful of other crimes that apparently did not get your attention. As usual, it did not get the attention of the King County DA either. Nothing shocking there.

Now to your post, I see no link to support any of these claims. Do you have a link you can provide confirming these stories, or is this something you obtained from the Dick Wolf archives?

44

@10,the song is "Me and Bobby McGee", written by Kris Kristofferson. Those anti-vaxxers are misinterpreting it. sheesh.

45

@39: "What anyone can see who doesn't have their head in the sand is that it's open season for non-violent crime. Criminals are walking into stores and clearing shelves of product and walking out. Criminals are, in broad daylight, in front of people taking pictures and videos of them, breaking into cars and cutting bike locks and making off with whatever they want, and they know unless there's a LEO at the scene, there will be no consequences."

This sounds serious, although much less serious than the police story I linked to above.

Can you provide any proof this happened in the form of a url, or did you take this from the Dick Wolf archive?

46

Rest in peace, Ed Asner. Good job on 7 Emmys and making it to 91.

Jesus--exactly what I feared. Rents are back to soaring while the housing market cools.

Anti-vaxxing RWNJ radio hosts are now dropping like flies from their own MAGA-stupidity? They can take Trumpty Dumpty, Greg Abbott, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Tate Reeves, Kay Ivey, Ron De Santis, Doug Ducey, Larry Elder, ad nauseum with them, and good riddance.

47

@32 pat L: Everything associated with war, and particularly the last overlong 20 years in Afghanistan is tragic. Worst of all, what have we learned every time war is waged?
The biggest crime is that those waging it profit from war, and rarely if ever suffer the dire consequences of costly economic and environmental damages as well as displacement of millions of innocent people.

48

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Aww, shit! Why can't Larry Elder make the RWNJ anti-vaxxers done in by COVID list?

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