Comments

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RE: Abolitionist candidates

I had no idea what that meant until I read (skimmed) the article.

So, they want to completely abolish the police. Not reduce, not retrain, abolish.

I'm totally in favor of more training, better hiring practices, and redirecting large chunks of police budgets into stronger social safety nets. But totally abolishing the police altogether? That strikes me as an extremely bad idea. You need some sort of "bouncer" with the authority to restrain people in order to de-escalate situations that will arise, no matter how good your social safety net is.

3

@1 and @2: Well put. Agree wholeheartedly.

5

@2 - this is exactly why a lot of us think that the "defund" sloganeering cost some seats in Congress. Much of the country interpeted it to men that there would be no police (or bouncers in your terminology). This argument that if everyone has their basic needs met there will be no crime flatly goes against human nature (and the monkey nature it is derived from).

I am pretty sure, however, that most of the misdemeanors that are charged in Seattle Muni court could also be filed in King County Court, where the City Attorney has nothing to say about them.

6

California voters in a massive landslide, to this point, reject the recall. Excellent. Great. Thank you, California voters!

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I dunno if no police would work. But we know that having too many doesnt work. Having a moderate amount doesnt work. Having too few doesnt work. So fuck it, let's give it a shot for a while. Try something new. Invest all that money into social services and education instead. If it doesnt work, well, American society is probably just a few more minor inconveniences from total collapse anyway.

9

I do know and it wouldn't work. Oh sure, there are some remote villages in homogeneous societies like Norway that I've seen referenced by police abolitionists as the model as if that could ever transfer into our society.

Forget obvious objections like serial killers and rapists, but how about just run-of-the-mill drunk drivers? You don't even want the State Patrol to pull them over? You'd have to be as sick as a Larry Elder supporter to think that.

11

No more comments on Savage Love? That's a bummer. In addition to Dan's advice, the comments have been entertaining and educational as they are essentially deep dives on the intricate nuances of sexuality in the modern era.

14

Anyone who thinks police are unnecessary are putting far too much faith in people to be decent. In what world do you live?

15

Norm, one of the greatest imo. Great stand up, talented writer. Personality like a dead moth.

Enjoy Norm on Larry Sanders:
https://youtu.be/0IgD32TVWaQ

16

To put it in an overly simplified way, police need to be much to closer to something like "social worker specializing in de-escalation but also with combat/firearms training for the worst scenarios" instead of the current "not quite a soldier but has most of the trappings of one".

I've been in social work and/or school settings for a couple decades. Trust me when I say there are plenty of caring and patient folks out there that will turn into total hard-asses and take a motherfucker down if the situation calls for it (after they've tried other options). That should be where you look for "new police".

If police focused on building community supports while also diligently coming down hard on the fuckers that actually deserve it (and isn't THAT a tricky discussion) then you'd have some fucking progress.

Plus we need a way more robust social safety net.

But you know, that's all a bunch of dirty commie socialist talk in this country.

17

@4:

Only by people who otherwise would be wallowing in isolation, squalor and decrepitude were it not for the steady flow of our tax money into their rural communities...

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@12:

The pushback from unions isn't against vaccinations per-se, but rather that union collective bargaining agreements require employers to negotiate changes to working conditions; they can't just unilaterally implement a policy without going through this process. They're not saying "no" outright to mandatory vaccination policies, but instead are saying "you have to sit down across the table from us and hash out what these policies will be, how they'll be implemented, and what the consequences will be for covered employees who, for whatever reason, either will not or cannot comply to them."

21

Do we need to start shopping for Orca Baby Shower presents?

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@22:

Nobody is saying that won't happen, and in the unions I work with it IS happening. But, there's a process that both parties are legally obligated to follow, and that has to happen before a mandatory policy can be implemented. Sure, there will be individual union members who object to the policy, whatever it turns out to be, but that would be the case in any similar situation, regardless of whether the employer has a collective bargaining agreement in place.

In the industry I work in we've negotiated with our major employers to allow for mandatory vaccination policies, but with the understanding that they have to follow a specific set of procedures if they wish to do so. They're not onerous, and frankly, they end up putting much of the onus on our members to verify their vaccination status. But, an employer can't just prevent someone from applying for work due to their status or lack thereof. However, if the member is offered employment they have to either provide proof they've been vaccinated or make a medical or "sincerely held religious belief" declaration, at which point the employer must make a good-faith attempt to accommodate the exemption. If they can't, and they can document that effort, then they don't have to hire the member.

As for members already employed by companies that implement a mandatory policy, again we've negotiated protocols whereby the employer has to make that effort at accommodation, so the union has fulfilled its fiduciary responsibility to its members for fair representation under federal labor law. But ultimately, the employer has the final word, and if they don't believe they can accommodate someone who refuses to be vaccinated, their employment is going to be terminated.

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@24:

Then clearly, you don't understand federal labor law, which, since the enactment of the National Labor Relations Act in 1935 has very clearly codified the right of workers to freely engage in collective bargaining over "wages AND working conditions" (https://www.nlrb.gov/guidance/key-reference-materials/ley-de-relaciones-obrero-patronales.) A mandatory vaccination policy affects working conditions, ergo the policy must be negotiated.

I'm guessing you belong squarely in the "you don't need a union my dear employee, because I, as your employer will treat you like your a part of my family" camp. What employers seldom communicate to their workers is that they will always take the position of the patriarch and treat the employee as children; very stupid, greedy, disruptive child who don't know what's best for themselves.

By your logic, if Cogswell Cogs wants to mandate a seven day, 12 hour work week for every employee, more power to Cogswell Cogs, amiright? I mean, what's a few more workplace injuries or employees dropping unconscious from breathing in toxic chemicals or dying from radium poisoning or black lung or burning to death because the foreman locked the doors to the factory? That's just the cost of doing business, and lazy, greedy workers shouldn't have any say in any of that.

If you had your way, we'd be back to the pre-NLRA era of 60 hour, six day work weeks, no vacations, no holidays, no health care, substandard wages, child employment, unsafe working conditions, and workers without any power to improve those conditions. Why not just come out and admit that at-heart you really, really want to be a good, old-fashioned Gilded Age, Robber Baron Capitalist.

And since clearly you haven't been paying attention, the percentage of union membership in both the public and private sector workforces has actually been increasing in the past few years (https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/union2.pdf.)

26

A big shout out to all the California voters who had the common sense to reject pro-Trumpist RWNJ sock puppet, Larry Elder and the GOP's pathetic recall attempt to oust current Governor, Gavin Newsom.
The West Coast dodged another RepubliKKKan-fired bullet.

Congrats to Southern resident orca moms-to-be! May the GOP go extinct instead.


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