Look, the Republicans were already going to spew lies about Democrats spending too much money on non-billionaires (spending on billionaires is A-OK, you know). By insisting that the debt ceiling bill be included in the reconciliation infrastructure bill, McConnell et al are giving Democrats an enormous gift. Schumer and Pelosi will be able to go to Manchin, Sinema, and the others and say that their choices are to (a) tank the economy, which their donors won't like or (b) vote for this $3T bill that we've scaled back ever so slightly from $3.5T so that you have cover.
Democrats get the $1T infrastructure bill already passed in the Senate, ~$3T in new spending, corporate tax cuts reversed somewhat, a raft of great policy stuff that is really popular, and a whole new set of attack ads that the Republicans were willing to tank the economy over partisan bullshit. Republicans get exactly the same attack ads that they were going to run anyway. Oh, and Democrats can then say that if you give us a couple more Senators in 2022 and D's keep the House, we can keep going toward the $6T that Jayapal and Sanders wanted by making Manchin and Sinema irrelevant.
To paraphrase Voltaire, If Manchin and Synema didnt exist, it would be necessary for Democrats to invent them.
There is an infrastructure bill passed by the Senate that will become the law of the land and start building bridges and other needed things right now, if only they'd vote on it in the House.
But no, they want a bigger 3.5T "build back better" budget bill and won't even think about passing a bill that they already have in the bag.
The calamity is of course that neither bill could pass. And the progressive wing of the Democrats will prove one again that their "our way or no way" bull headedness sabotages any hope for a more prosperous country with an improved infrastructure or healthier climate.
This recipe for despair has the makings for a Trump return to power to materialize, courtesy of the Democrats yet again.
@3 This is mostly correct.Without a debt ceiling rise, interest rates will spiral, the economy will tank, and Republicans will retake the House. Nobody wants that, so progressive Democrats better remove their heads from their behinds and compromise or they are doomed.
I don't think you understand how Congress, works, Rich Smith. Deals have to be made, and they were made in the Senate before the August recess.
It's not a "betrayal" to get shit done; it's compromise.
"Betrayal"? Lose the naivete, Rich Smith.
The Constitution exists, the Senate exists, Senate Republicans exist, moderate Senate Democrats exist. Compromise is how Government works. The Senate is designed to blunt legislation and preserve the Status Quo.
I don't like it, either. You think Pelosi likes it?
@5 You have the wrong villain. The debt ceiling bill will be attached to the $3T+ infrastructure bill. It's the moderates who oppose that who will need to take their heads out to keep the economy from crashing.
Oh, and Manchin and Sinema keep bellyaching about wanting bipartisanship. The more the GOP declines to do the normal functions of government for partisan reasons, the more it shows Manchin and Sinema that bipartisanship is impossible. Most of us figured that out a decade or so ago, but better late than never.
The last government shutdown sponsored by the republicans was so popular, time to do it again. I fully expect the infrastructure / safety net / election security bills to go down in flames too, the chances are just too slim and lobbyists only have to buyout one singular human to deny the benefits to hundreds of millions of Americans.
@8 Doesn't matter, the results will be the same. Finger point all you want.
Dan's going to live in AZ for three years, just so he can vote against Sinema the next time she runs? I hope he earns to spell her name by then.
It's hard to believe the Biden-Pelosi-Schumer-Sanders made it this far, considering the narrow margins in both houses and the disposition of the opposition. It's still an improbable white-knuckle thriller. If/when it fails, the skids are greased for the discontinuation of Democracy in America.
Current polling suggests the public will disproportionately blame D's for every failure - an attitude conditioned by major media bothsidesism.
Progressives and centrists both have legit grievances with each other. That's not going away any time soon.
Politically dysfunctional progressives handed Trump the keys to the White House in 2016, prevented D's from taking the Senate majority and a more robust House in 2020, and when the coalition fails it's mostly moderate D's who will lose their seats.
Jayapal is right, they had a deal but a couple (or more) Senate D's reneged. Centrists are right, the bargain was only a sketch, never a blueprint, and the details aren't falling together on their own.
Some are bargaining in good faith, some are not, and if the debt ceiling lift gets caught in the clockworks the consequences are dire -- worse than major media failure lets on. As I noted elsewhere ...,
"We've seen one faction snuff a million lives - mostly their own - in symbolic demonstration against medical reality.
Any reason to think they'll act more prudently vs economic reality, if it loosens the constraints of small-d democratic reality?"
Pelosi is playing an incredibly bad hand to the best of her very considerable ability. Wish her - and all of us - the best of luck.
American oligarchs want the eCONomy to implode so they can pick up assets at fire sale prices. As a side benefit, it also wipes out their competition. Look at how much insanely wealthier they became after the 2008 collapse and the brief 2020 COVID crash. Stealing tons of the relief money sure helped as well, in tandem with decade-long engineered macro thefts like quantitative easing and absurdly low interest rates, which they can carry out with impunity.
SINema and buttMunchin are bought and paid for by the same billionaires that own the Republinazi party. They're comically and openly corrupt and don't even try to hide it.
The oligarchy's incentives are all lined up against 99% of us; it's in their financial interests to destroy the country and everyone in it. Facebook, for example, spreads lies and mass psychosis because it generates clicks aka user engagement and endless advertising dollars from lonely, bored, and terrified people. No one hates America and Americans more than the soulless, greedy, lying sociopaths that rule us.
Nice work, Kshama. Yet another dis-incentive to provide affordable housing. Every single one of these "tenant protection" bills makes it riskier to rent to lower-income people and will ultimately make housing harder to come by. Every one of them signals that if you choose to provide affordable housing, you will be subject to more and more regulation and restrictions.
To state the obvious here, if you don't rent to people with less than 80% of the median income you are not at risk for having to provide rental assistance. So maybe it now makes more sense to either remodel & get rents up to where more than 80% of income is a requirement for applying, or sell the property so it can be turned into townhouses to be sold to owner/occupants. Either course of action reduces the number of lower-rent units on the market, and neither helps the people that this scarf-wearing fool claims to give a damn about.
There are plenty of reasons that a 10% rent increase might be reasonable and this ordinance would essentially allow a tenant to veto them by threatening to move (thereby putting the cost of relocation onto the landlord).
It's been said 1000 times, but the reason rents go up is lack of supply. If there were enough apartments in town, landlords would never be able to raise rents to where it was a problem. But the City makes it impossible t build more (and where it is possible, the land values are so high that building affordable units is impossible). As a result, prices go up. Controlling rents will do nothing to help that situation. There will still be lots of people who can't find housing. That will never change unless we allow enough density to provide the number of units needed. Period.
@12 - well said. Pelosi is doing all she can and Schumer will have to do the same. No amount of magical thinking by progressives ("if we just made the bills EVEN BIGGER they'd see the light and vote for them") will change reality. Good luck to both of them. And screw Sinema & Manchin.
Talk about blaming the people who’re trying to do the right thing, while absolving Republinazi voters and politicians that’ve embraced fascism and shoved their heads all the way up $hitler’s revolting orange ass. Jeezus Kuh-rist.
I love the insinuation that Sinema and Manchin are opposing these bills are due to personal gains vs actually representing the views of the people who voted for them. Sinema and Manchin don't own Biden or Pelosi their loyalty. The owe their constituents their loyalty. If you want to assume there is some more nefarious purpose at work here than you should also view the progressive position through the same lens and ask how they will stand to benefit from passing this package.
@3, 5, 10,
Yeah, you can fuck right off with that "this is the democrats fault if things go bad!" bullshit.
I don't know if you're just concern trolling or if you ACTUALLY believe the shit you're writing, but the only reason the federal government even exists right now is because there are democrats in it. The republican party openly plotted and encouraged a goddamn insurrection! They are hell-bent on destroying the federal government and issuing a decree that monied corporate interests and the ultra wealthy are now our overlords. They are fascists. Period. And it appears the only thing standing in the way of them overthrowing democracy is the democrats.
The democrats are a divided group, and they've got major problems, no doubt about it, but they are the only ones even bothering to compromise and deal and legislate. The republican-fascists criticize everything and vote AGAINST EVERYTHING.
If there is a failure of government, it is ENTIRELY the responsibility of the republican-fascists. I don't give a shit how much you or the media howls about democrats failing to compromise. The republican-fascists have not compromised on anything for DECADES. THEY are the failures here. They are responsible for the fate of the nation. The sooner all you fascist party voters realize you're the rubes who've been fleeced all these years the better.
@18 It doesn't matter whose responsibility it is to fix the engine of the boat if the boat goes over the waterfall and kills everyone. Right now, Democrats can fix the engine if they can agree. The falls are approaching.
@16 -- Perhaps you read an entirely different post.
Perhaps - unlike Sen. Sanders - you are incapable of reflecting on anything that might reflect badly on your past conduct.
Nancy Pelosi is not a sell-out. The Democrats need to find a reasonable budget compromise and pass it. And, yes, that is doable. Pelosi is in a very difficult position, and there is no ideal way out of it. Would you prefer Trump Republicans control the budget process--or, for that matter, election oversight at the state level? Do you want to risk that, given that they're currently empowering state legislatures to invalidate election results they don't like? No, I don't believe Nancy Pelosi is evil; nor, for that matter, do I believe Chris Gregoire and Gary Locke are jack-booted fascists who want to lock up the poor. The Stranger staff just loves to foment hatred towards mainstream Democrats. Watch what happens if the Trump folks gain more power. You'll be begging for a return to the days Pelosi was speaker.
@18: Hit a nerve did we? Honestly, there's nothing in @3 that you don't hear from talking heads on CNN and MSNBC.
Your anger is justified. But while categorizing Republicans as failures and fascists may give you a sense of vindication, everybody still has to work together and that's where the lovely metaphor in @19 comes in.
"Nancy Pelosi betrays progressives, again:"
Yes!! Yes!! Get rid of Nancy & give us Trump again!! Our Blessed Lord & Savior Trumpus the First was much better to liberals & progressives than Pelosi!! Whatever Nancy does is a secret betrayal of the people who voted for her. (Spoken while jumping up & down from the self inflicted gunshot wound to the foot)
Nice to see that Qanon isn't the only place to find obscenely stupid conspiracy theories.
Kristen sinema’s constituents have spoken and they do not think she represents their views
Regarding the show recommendation: https://www.spectrumnews.org/opinion/reviews/review-love-on-the-spectrum-is-kind-but-unrepresentative/
Either Pelosi is going along with the progressive approach or she isn't, and right now it looks like she isn't. This is neither a secret nor a conspiracy, but a pretty rote description of intra-party negotiations as they stand re: the infrastructure and social safety net bills.
I guess you can argue whether it's a "betrayal" or not but if you think that places this on the same scale as an antisemitic conspiracy theory about election fraud and child sex trafficking you're just telling everyone you don't understand what any of these things are in the most obnoxious way possible
Yeah, and the fascists are beating on the engine with a sledgehammer while the democrats are trying to fix it. The fascists are trying to kill us all. They should be thrown out of the boat first, THEN we can work on restoring government functioning. And to get off this metaphor, I mean the fascists who turned traitor Jan 6 should be expelled from congress and arrested.
The only nerve hit is that I find it incredible that any dumbass would STILL excuse those fascists and consider them to still be part of our government. They are saboteurs. Criminals. Traitors. And you guys still say, "well, they're senators and representatives, so, ya know, we gotta work with them." No. There IS no working with them because THEY are the ones refusing to work together. CNN and MSNBC aren't helping. Fox "News" is actively assisting the traitors. Some of them are merely useless but a huge group of them should have been ejected from their positions as soon as they supported insurrection. Ejected and arrested and charged with insurrection. The fact that people like the two of you still support those traitors is why government is failing.
This is not merely anger. And it's not vindication. There was an attempted insurrection Jan 6 and you, raindrop, and you, Swiftress, by your acquiescence to it or your outright support of it are continuing to be willing participants in the treasonous overthrow of our democracy.
@29 Once again, you demonstrate a complete detachment from reality. Just like the Trumpers.
@23 You ain’t too bright, Professa’. Manchin wasn’t elected by a gerrymandered district… he’s a fucking Senator, you half-wit.
God I hope you aren’t really a teacher.
The democrats are currently bargaining and compromising and trying to make deals to move the government forward.
The republicans are doing nothing. They are refusing to support anything at all. They want to shut government down, default on our debts, and destroy the country.
And you place full blame on the democrats and say not a word about the republicans.
Are you truly holding the entire republican congress faultless for this whole thing? Do you support what they're doing? If the government were to shut down, or default on our debts, you would say that is 100% the fault of democrats and 0% republican fault?
@32 Republicans are gonna Republican. Democrats are in control. They should act like it.
@29: "There IS no working with them because THEY are the ones refusing to work together."
Tell that to Nancy and Chuck. According to your bombastic reasoning they are also guilty of "acquiescence to it or your outright support of it are continuing to be willing participants in the treasonous overthrow of our democracy."
"Democrats are in control. They should act like it."
Yeah, by kicking out the traitors.
If you're blaming the democrats for not having the balls to stop all business until the traitors are removed from office, then I'm with you. If you're blaming the democrats for not bowing to the will of a group of fascists? Then I can only assume you're on the side of the fascists.
"Yeah I support traitors but so do Nancy and Chuck!" is not a compelling argument.
@36 "Kicking out the traitors." Well, they don't have that power, so whatever you assume is moot.
You do the deal with the Democrats that you have, not the Democrats that you want or wish to have at a later time, because if you don't do a deal, everyone is screwed.
You really have no clue.
@36: I find it undemocratic to assume elected representatives should be removed from office who won the vote of their constituents. As a democrat you should respect their choice. That's what election days are for.
Rather authoritarian hole you slid into, but I'm sure it's just the heat of debate that got to you.
@38 -- "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."
Problematic to the point of constitutional crisis that there are so many of them, but there it is and here we are, no?
@39: Well, you can at the most link Kevin McCarthy, Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley, Jim Jordan and some others provided that you prove that last clause. Good luck.
""Kicking out the traitors." Well, they don't have that power"
But I thought you said they were in control? Are they not in control? Which is it?
"You do the deal with the Democrats that you have, not the Democrats that you want or wish to have at a later time, because if you don't do a deal, everyone is screwed."
If the deal is to capitulate to the republicans and pass their agenda, then I'd prefer everyone be screwed.
I at least have a clue about one thing, you're a fascist apologist.
If they break the law then they should be held accountable, regardless of how they were elected.
Holding people accountable for their actions is authoritarian? Ok...??
Are you suggesting that once someone's elected they're now above the law? That sounds authoritarian to me.
Are you telling me you don't think they committed insurrection? Or they didn't support or endorse insurrection? Some of them are still to this day trying to overturn a democratic election. But since they're on "your side" we should just look the other way? Is that what you want the US to be?
If nearly half the country doesn't want democracy or government anymore, then perhaps we really should let it collapse.
@33 So you support killing the filibuster? Because that's the only other option we have right now. Republicans have already said they won't support a clean bill raising the debt ceiling. That leaves throwing it into the reconciliation infrastructure bill or killing the filibuster.
@36 if Dems want to kick out the traitors the line starts with AOC and her crew. Remember this priceless quote “in any other country Joe Biden and I wouldn’t be in the same party”. Progressives act like they are the majority when in fact they are a very small minority. Line forms to the right.
@41 Well, I have a clue that you don't have any idea what you're talking about and you shouldn't ever be in charge of anything.
The most important thing here is to raise the debt limit or faith in US credit and the dollar is destroyed, along with the economy. Everything else is secondary at this point. Save the boat and the people on it and kick out "traitors" later.
You are an idiot.
"Holding people accountable for their actions is authoritarian?"
In Seattle it sure is. Holding people accountable for their misdemeanors is the RepuQlicanon Deathcult Nazi's platform for City Attorney.
"The most important thing here is to raise the debt limit or faith in US credit and the dollar is destroyed, along with the economy. Everything else is secondary at this point. Save the boat and the people on it and kick out "traitors" later."
And you just proved that you either A) Also don't have any clue what you're talking about and should never be in charge of anything, or B) Are a disingenuous liar
"You are an idiot."
Says the fascist and fool.
I'm sure you're glad you and your nazi leaders in congress will get what you wanted, despite the majority of Americans being against you and your fascist leader Trump's desires. When they finally come for you too, don't say I didn't warn you. And it won't matter how hard you lick their boots either though I'm sure you'll enjoy it anyway.
And yet, AOC and "her crew" whoever that is, never advocated overthrowing a democratically held election.
Not agreeing with everyone in your political party = Not a traitor
Trying to overthrow the government = traitor
Try to keep up, son.
@48 I'm a Democrat, fool, and I know how the financial system works better than you do, and if we don't save it now it won't matter who the "traitors" are or what we do about them.
You are really a piece of work, you and Professor Misery.
@47 never said it was nefarious just that she isn't really a democrat. The only reason she has a D next to her name is she knows she would never would have won election as a member of DSA. She. has enough notoriety that she could probably now but I doubt many others of the squad would. She actively undermines the party by withholding funding for the Democratic re-election funds and in some cases actively campaigning against fellow members of her party. That's her right of course but if the Dems are forced to choose between her and Manchin/Simena I think she'll find herself out.
I know you've been on the MAGA death cult kick lately so question for you. Now that BLM NY has come out against the vaccine mandate and called it racist are they are death cult too?
Just wondering where the line is on death cult vs questioning government mandates
@49: "But Davison is a MAGA Death Cult repuQlican. "
"And voting for her is a vote for the MAGA Death Cult."
So I don't really think either party is actually wrong in this argument. Urgutha's objectively correct in that the GOP is comprised mostly of fasciist, authoritarian assholes who respect neither civility nor democracy, and are OK w/ undermining both on the regular. But Swiftress is also correct in that we're beholden to this system and it's the only one we've got at current, and so the option is to either work within it or suffer the consequences of not doing so, which could certainly prove catastrophic.
I of course am correcter than everyone in my ongoing rants proclaiming that the fundamentally undemocratic system that enables fascist fucking dictators to legally wield power is what's really at fault, and until we do something about that, we're pretty much screwed. Unfortunately, I'm not sure we're really in any sort of position to do anything meaningful to enact real and meaningful change since the fundamentally undemocratic institution itself is set up to resist such actions or even make them effectively impossible to undertake, especially when doing so would require the action of those empowered by it.
And honestly I'm just too damn lazy to join in any sort of resistance, armed or otherwise. I'm also a pacifist, the Mariners are actually hanging around in the playoff hunt and there's pictures of naked ladies galore here to look at.
Just for the record, the Seattle City Attorney's office does prosecute crimes.
Also, the states of Arizona and West Virginia are not gerrymandered districts.
@5, @10, @19, @30, @33, @37, @45, and @50: For someone who claims to so proudly vote Democrat-- exactly like Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin--you sure do act and sound like a MAGA-stupefied RepubliKKKan.
Oh, now I get it---you and Elmer are roomies. No wonder you're always concern trolling together. Which of you gets the top bunk and who gets the bottom? You're paste and he's glue, forever stuck together. It must be a laugh riot when you two shop for clothes.
@48 Urgutha Forka for the WIN! As usual, Swiftboots keeps shooting his mouth off when in reality the gun totin', bible misquotin', unborn fetus dotin', GOP will cheerfully use him and his avatar for target practice.
@57 It's time again for your schizophrenia medicine.
@57: I really hope you can find peace someday.
"if we don't save it now it won't matter who the "traitors" are or what we do about them."
How many times have those words been uttered?
and so it's done. And we look around afterwards and find ourselves in exactly the same place we were before we "saved" it.
Maybe we should try something different. Hm? What if we don't "save it?" What then? You predict the end of... what? The end of fascist rule?
What do you predict will happen if we don't "save" the fascists from maintaining the status quo?
Or are you too afraid to say?
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All contents © Index Newspapers LLC
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