Comments

1

It's been well-known by many - and easily learnable by everyone - for quite some time that Dan Price was abusive to his first wife and also lies about his business successes, but why on earth would a journalist know or mention any of that, I guess.

2

I'm glad you posted that screenshot regarding the SafeSeattle Facebook post as it shows it's not nearly as racist as you inferred. That supposition, option one, while being obviously wrong and racist, is something that someone could believe and indeed some people do believe. So, why not discuss it? Maybe change some minds? Maybe let the people who try to defend that idea show themselves?
If you look at the other 3 options, while "conditioned" is not the word I would choose, they are just looking at causes of crime and calling into question policing, law enforcement, data gathering, and systemic poverty wrought by our country's history of racism. Hardly the stuff of hardline racists.

3

I’ve checked out safe Seattle, and while I’m pretty much fine with their homeless stance, they have gone into weird waters with covid, vaccines, etc.

They are also incredibly thin skinned - I was banned for questioning the use of a photo from a post about metro that was from months previous, not the actual incident. They acknowledged that but still banned me for having the nerve to criticize it. Oh well.

4

I wonder, if poster two, knows he's racist, or has he just been conditioned to think in those terms

5

Perhaps we can just ignore racism and hope that it goes away. Or we can insult anyone that doesn't meet our exquisitely precise standards for participation in the discussion of this topic. I suspect both approaches will be equally effective.

6

Reading the comments on that post is very ... instructive about who Safe Seattle is. While nobody that I saw picked option 1, there was a solid group of people either (a) choosing option 2 but deleting info in the parentheses or (b) blaming the typical racist tropes of poor parenting, etc.

7

If you don't think it's racist to 'just ask questions' about genetics as a potential explanation for crime stats you don't understand the first thing about genetics, yet this is always presented as a serious possibility by certain segments of society, and then people get absolutely incredulous that someone would call this bigotry. Scientists can't even pin down the genes for height even though it is almost entirely driven by genetics, so the idea that there could be a link between the genetics of BILLIONS of people and criminal behavior is obscene.

It's bad enough that a delicate question like this is being tossed to the huddled masses on facebook and asking any idiot with a keyboard to opine on it, but there is no sophisticated or non-racist way to consider behaviors that are best and most logically explained by economic factors as open to a genetic explanation. The whole discussion is cursed but if god forbid you feel the need to start it, step one should be putting genetics to rest.

8

Both DivestSPD and Safe Seattle use the reaction to option one to further discussion of the other options. DivestSPD is doing what it accuses Safe Seattle of doing. Its just rhetoric not hypocrisy on one hand and racism on the other.

9

pinnipeds haul 'out' not up..

10

no one should be posting shit like that in a public forum on facebook period, the whole thing is just gross but 'are black people biologically criminal??' is beyond the pale

11

Fun goings on at the United States Capitol last night.

https://defector.com/nationas-skydiving-capitol-evacuation/

11

@7 if that was directed at me, you missed my point entirely. Or maybe you just chose to willfully misconstrue what I wrote to go off on your little tantrum. Just because someone considers an idea does not mean they endorse that idea, it doesn't even mean they believe that idea. And to not discuss something that a certain segment of the population may believe is to write those people off as 'deplorable', I guess is the word we use now, and ignore them; hope they go away. And when they vote and the big orange turd is back in the White House in 2025 you can feel so good that you are so unracist that you wouldn't even entertain the notion that people might believe bizarre and outrageous things.

Also @3 "I wonder if poster two knows he's reasonable or has he just been conditioned to think in those terms" - fixed it for you. And FYI, I'm the brown-skinned son of an immigrant and have experienced real racism in this country multiple times.

12

@5:

Many, nay, MOST white people here have been ignoring racism in some fashion since the concept of genetic "race" was first introduced on this continent in the early 1600's. That's allowed a good, solid four centuries for those stooped under the yoke of racial oppression for so many generations to define, from their direct experience, "the exquisitely precise standards for participation in the discussion" we are having now. And why shouldn't they? After all, for the overwhelming majority of those 400 years, it was white people who defined those standards, so it seems only just that the tables have been turned. And of course it's absolutely no surprise people like you are upset, because for once you are no longer in absolute control of the discussion, like you assumed you always would be, and the standards you previously set to dominate, dismiss, and disenfranchise those you held in lower regard have been completely thrown out the window; you can't get away with them anymore, and that feels soooo unfair, doesn't it?

Sure must suck to be you right now, eh?

12

I wish the transient orcas would teach the resident orcas to eat seals and sea lions.

The residents are so persnickety that they're going to starve to death.

13

11 it was directed at the facebook post we both read? and I directly referenced in my comment? I guess when you're the protagonist of the entire universe you assume everything is about you but sometimes it isn't.

14

me: it is irresponsible to post this in a public facebook forum

you: HOW DARE YOU CALL ME RACIST

lol what

15

Of course @7 is in response or influenced by @2, but blip is the queen of perfunctory plausible deniability.

16

«COVID positivity rates are climbing in King County»

Harborview staff are required to use N95 masks at all times again.
Masking is always required at HMC but the specifics for N95 had been eased for a while...

17

Of course the universe’s actual main character had to insert himself into a spicy conversation that doesn’t involve him

15, If you don’t see your name or @ referenced in a post that directly references someone else I promise it’s not about you no matter how desperately you want it to be

18

Wowzer a Pair of Back-to-Back fucking Doubles?
11, 11, 12, & 12. well that's a first for me

“… the idea that there could be a link between the genetics of BILLIONS of people and criminal behavior is obscene.” --@blip

Totally Obfuckingscene

Wowzer --@blip
well Done Tear-
drop's gotta
tear

a real
carebear

WOW comte:
"... it was white people who defined those[‘exquisitely precise standards for participation’], so it seems only just that the tables have been turned. And of course it's absolutely no surprise people like you are upset,

because for once you are no longer in absolute control of the discussion, like you assumed you always would be,

and the standards you previously set to dominate, dismiss, and disenfranchise those you held in lower regard have been completely thrown out the window;

you can't get away with them anymore, and that feels soooo unfair, doesn't it?”

Dude.

the Pinnacle of the Food Chain
isTough to fall off of and
will Def leave a mark

19

@12 As always, you go with option #2. Well done.

20

@10 You really think that we shouldn't talk about bigoted ideas in a public forum? How does ignoring those opinions help people change them? You're not going to move the needle overnight but, for example, those kind of conversations - publicly and around the kitchen table - changed the majority opinion about gay marriage in twenty years. It was amazing. I haven't read the fb post or comments but I think that the intent of the author was positive.

21

@20 this is a straw man. And in idiotic one.

If we want to discus the prevalence of racist ideas to debunk them that is one thing. And nobody says evaluating societies racist beliefs is wrong.

In the context of for example "Attitudes that embrace notions that black people are genetically inferior is wrong and pseudo-scientific because...."

But literally going " Are black people genetically more inclined to commit crime? huuuurrrr...Duhhhhhhh..."

Is an open an invitation to express and justify racism. Not debunk it. And that is exactly what happened.

The "asking questions" fallacy is a well worn racist fig leaf and bad faith augmentative tactic and you god damned well know it.

And of course you didn't read the Facebook thread yet commented anyway.

22

@21 Yes, I just read what Mr. Baume posted and went from that. (I'm supposed to be working.) It is not my intention to argue in bad faith. A person is taught racism. A person can be untaught racism. But you do have to sit down, have a beer or two (my preference) and listen to what they have to say.

23

upon reflection 300 years of
Slavery & another 150 of
Jim Crow tends to seep
into the Bloodstream &
a long and painful Ex-
orcism may be the
Only way to be
Rid of it.

hiding in caves
ain’t gonna cut it

but those who’ve Benefitted the Most
have thee Most to Lose and will not
go Peaceably into that Long nite
not when there Still might be a
Chance to keep Their Place

and what if those they’ve
Wronged choose to treat
them the Same? I be-
lieve they Wonder

24

The Stranger's writers have no problem with tossing frivolous accusations of racism around whenever they believe it suits them:

"BTW, voted against the racist, right-wing recall of Councilmember Kshama Sawant yet?"
(https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2021/12/02/63283277/seattle-sticker-patrol-everybody-loves-a-femme-top)

'Some read “popular candidates” as “candidates that white people like.” In a city [Seattle] that is mostly white, Cheung and Chege argued that approval voting could lead to minority groups getting stuck with a less-than-ideal candidate that the majority likes.'
(https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2022/03/01/67571578/election-nerds-feud-over-whether-or-not-approval-voting-violates-voting-rights)

After these multiple recent instances of calling Seattle's voters racist, there's really no reason to take seriously the Stranger's accusations of racism.

25

Well that didn't take long.

The 'ol Tu Quoque Logical fallacy is after all the next most poplar option after the Strawman and the Complex Question/JAQ fallacies.

26

@22 And you think the Facebook group (where a bunch of white people mostly complain about how black people are the real racists, BTW) that supposes 'black people might be more disposed to crime because of genetics' was hoping to "unteach" racism? If that's the hill you want to die on.

Were the concentration camps in 1940 Germany there to "unteach" antisemitism? Hey. Just asking questions.

27

@29: Looks like you want to die on Goodwin's hill.

28

it isn't Race
it's fuckimg Class.

living in one of America's
Sacrifice Zones'll fuck
you up badly if you
somehow manage
to Escape before
Dying horribly


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