NO ONE will be Safe
till ALL are Required to
carry Pocket Nukes at all times
the onliest thing that'll
Stop a Terrorist is another
Terrorist with BIGGER WMDs
'deFund' the Po-po?
Why KEEP 'em?
It's obvious, the police were scared for their own lives; which is a perfectly normal response. Not everyone is wired to be Rambo and storm a building. Is it their job to do that? YES, but you can't predict how people will react when the combat is real. The parents are hurting, and blame is one of stages of recovery.
It's easy to type, but I have a feeling if my kids were in that school and I was outside, I would run in no mater fucking what.
There are now over 20 million MSSAs in circulation in Uhmurka, a 50-fold increase since the Assault Weapons ban expired less than 20 years ago.
Cops better figure out a way to confront that type of weaponry; there will only be more and more of them.
BTW, it wasn't "both sides" that refused to renew that law.
It seems the small town cops were stuck in the pre-Columbine mindset of “secure the perimeter and negotiate” rather than the post-Columbine “engage and eliminate the threat ASSP.”
There does need to be an investigation to determine whether it was poor training, incompetence, or fear that caused the delayed response.
Uvalde Police Department
Unveils New Thin Yellow Line Flag
To commemorate all the bodily fluids lost while assaulting parents trying to rescue their children from an active shooter, today the Uvalde Police Department announced its officers would now cover their uniforms, cars and front lawns with new Thin Yellow Line flags.
“Dozens of Uvalde police officers lost their underwear in the line of duty Tuesday, forever soiled in a hail of their own piss while cowering behind barricades as innocent children were slaughtered by a rampaging gunman just a few feet away,” said Uvalde police spokesperson Robert Ford.
“Alas, the police department only had a paltry 40% of the entire town’s budget, and were therefore left powerless to protect their trousers, let alone elementary school children.
Maybe if the town had been more serious about the security of the community, these officers would have been able to cower behind even bigger militarized SWAT vehicles for another 40 minutes to spare at least their innocent boxers and briefs.”
If the police aren't willing to expose themselves to those risks, its cool. But why pay them so much just to shoot defenseless people in their beds and shake down prostitutes? Or whatever it is they do instead of look for stolen bicycles.
Almost two years ago to the day, there was so much momentum to change policing. Then people started getting Susan Collins-level concerned about how "defund the police" sounded.
I'm waiting to hear a valid reason why that is considered a bad slogan. The justification for it has only increased in the past two years. What the fuck are we paying them for?
@3 “Cops better figure out a way to confront that type of weaponry; there will only be more and more of them.”
Agreed but unfortunately that means that cops need to be militarized and trained.
As @2 pointed out running into a fire fight isn’t a normal reaction. It takes training. I wouldn’t be surprised to find the cops in Uvalde hadn’t done a live active shooter training in some years if ever.
The best solution would be to make it harder for anyone to get these weapons.
Unfortunately that’s unlikely to happen any time soon.
had a few Mass Shootings
said WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK
and FIXED the Problem.
if only we weren't
so god Damn EXCEPTIONAL
with a far FAR 'right' wing
Owning 'our' Mass Media
and Most of 'our' Lawmakers
'cause that's how they* Fixed it.
*the far FAR 'right' wing profiteers
@5,7,8 its great to play Monday morning quarterback but what if the police had rushed in and the shooter ended up killing even more people? Beyond that what is your alternative here? Sending in the community organizers and unarmed social workers that the defund crowd wants to have in place of the police? There is a lot to criticize the cops about but questioning their courage and saying they are useless in these situations has no merit. One of the Sheriff's deputies lost their own child in the shooting.
@11: Do you know anything about police protocol for responding to active shooters?
“The chief of police of the school district, who was the incident commander, told Border Patrol agents along with other law enforcement that arrived to hold back from engaging the gunman, Mr. McCraw said, apparently believing the suspect had barricaded himself in the classroom and “there were no kids at risk. “
I don’t know what decision I would have made, but I am very grateful that type of decision making never comes into play in my job or life.
@15 “This isn't an argument in support of the police, it is an argument for completely abolishing them. I don't think we should do that, but if police advocates are asking us to accept that a classroom full of dead kids could have been worse if the police acted then I repeat: what the fuck are we even doing here.”
I don’t think anyone is saying that. The consensus seems to be that this incident commander (the District’s Police Chief) made the wrong decision.
What is unknown is whether he had ever trained for that scenario.
Police, like the rest of us, are at the mercy of the human condition when faced with an AR-15 in use.
@11 - "There is a lot to criticize the cops about but questioning their courage and saying they are useless in these situations has no merit"
But they are useless. And they have no courage. We arm them and entrust them to stop crime and dangerous situations. If they're not going to do that, then they don't need weapons and should probably find a line of work that doesn't come with the possibility of having to risk your life for someone or something greater than yourself.
The teachers showed more courage than the cops. You make the extremely tired joke about community organizers and social workers but I have no doubt in my mind they would show more courage too.
Tell me again why we need cops? They don't prevent crime or solve crime. They commit it, stand by and watch it happen, cover it up when they commit it, and otherwise rob taxpayers of trillions of dollars annually pretending they do anything constructive for society. Fuck defund the police, ABOLISH THE POLICE. There will be no change other than less dead people murdered by cops. And while we're at it, get rid of the corrupt, compromised, and criminal "supreme" court. They are useless AF, too.
Uvalde shooting timeline exposes an ugly truth: The police have no legal duty to protect you
In 2005, the Supreme Court ruled that there is no "'entitlement’ to receive protective services" from police
No one forces them to take a job where they are expected to deal with a person with a gun.
Am I supposed to not go put out a fire or grab someone trapped in a burning building because I'm scared it might kill me? If that possibility scared me, I would find another job.
and I love how everyone commenting here is like why on earth would cops rush in? why? BECAUSE THAT IS LITERALLY WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO DO. EVERY TIME. After the shit show of the Columbine High School shooting (that was aired LIVE ON TELEVISION), where the police did not enter the school for HOURS AND HOURS AFTER THE KILLING WAS DONE AND THE KILLERS HAD KILLED THEMSELVES, the protocol was changed. Active school shooter requires IMMEDIATE ACTION.
Cops not wanting to enter a school with an active shooter murdering children because they are afraid of getting shot is literally the biggest and most convincing advertisement about why we as a nation need not spend trillions of dollars on police budgets. FFS you people are out of your fucking minds.
Republicans want teachers to be armed and children are taught to wave their arms and throw things at an active shooter if they can't find a place to hide "so that maybe some of their classmates can survive." Are you fucking kidding me with this bullshit?
Republicans refusing to legislate murder weapons and all cops need to be placed in a livestock pen where the only way out is to shoot everyone else. Let's see who survives.
So much for that "good guy with a gun" chestnut.
Another example of how police are cowards when it comes to guns. Ever notice they only beat the shit out of unarmed protestors? But when Y'all Qaeda rolls through town with their dick extenders they break out the kid gloves.
@21 How often do you train on grabbing someone trapped in a burning building?
Do you think it’s more often than this small town cop trained on a shooter in an elementary school.
Would you suggest that I, an untrained individual, rush into a burning building to save someone or would I be jeopardizing your life when I get overwhelmed by smoke and you have to save my ass?
@22 Hey zina, I don’t think there is a single comment on this thread defending the cops behavior in this incident.
I certainly haven’t and specifically mentioned the response was a pre-Columbine response.
It takes a good guy with a gun to wait outside while the bad guy with a gun shoots the hell out of everybody inside!
@25 Okay, I agree with you on Dist 13’s comment.
I also agree with this statement of yours, “The police in every jurisdiction in this country need to be prepared for an active shooter situation and whatever personal risk that entails for them if they take that job.”
But with one fucking huge caveat.
That of course means every cop in every jurisdiction being well trained in active shooter situations. Which is basically military training in urban warfare….
If we get them all well trained to rush into a situation to eliminate the threat I’m sure that won’t cause any problems in the way they interact with the public…
@24 Enough to know what my job is and what risks are involved in doing it. And I do it anyway.
Are you really asking if the police received proper training on using their weapons and handling situations in which others have weapons and are using them?
I would hope so. If not, again, why are we arming and funding them?
"Would you suggest that I, an untrained individual, rush into a burning building to save someone or would I be jeopardizing your life when I get overwhelmed by smoke and you have to save my ass?
Only you know what you're capable of. Maybe you would surprise yourself. I've met a lot of untrained individuals who exhibited more courage and critical-thinking skills than our extremely over-paid state sanctioned street gangs.
@24 and @26 - good points
Gosh, lighten up light-your-hair-on-fire-crowd, we're just the messengers.
@27 - They pay them, and pay them well, right?
The woman the cops handcuffed got a cop she knew to take the cuffs off and SHE ran into the building and got her children out of the building. The Border Patrol officer that went into the building (to get his wife and child out) shot and killed the shooter. All of the cops standing around with their thumbs up their asses while parents begged them to do their jobs need to be charged with accessory to murder. They willfully and purposefully chose to not do anything while 19 children and two teachers were murdered.
"we're just the messengers"
much too Kind to
yourself you are
you're just Enablers
in the Fascist's
defund those cosplaying fuckers
Just how is stating fact "enabling", kristaria?
Texas. "Trust everyone with a gun"...even when you're out shopping and in school. If your mentality is to trust everyone who can find a gun, then I guess this sort of thing is going to keep happening. Otherwise, lock down everything like it was an airport with TSA making sure you're not going anywhere if you have a gun...and this has all been said before after some other mass murder happened hasn't it? It's the definition of insanity.
oh, and the demon spawn MT Greene got out of that "Coup election eligibility " faster than a greased pig, no doubt that Cawthorn character will be able to do the same thing.
@25/27/29 I agree with you both. If there are officers who were derelict in their duty they should be replaced. The anti cop rhetoric on this blog however that assumes all officers are cowards and they police are good for nothing belies an actual conversation and only reveals the posters own bigotry. There were multiple failures in this situation from why a clearly disturbed 18 year old was allowed to purchase guns, why his family allowed him to keep said guns, how he was able to easily access the school grounds to what the police knew and how they dictated their response. If it makes people feel better to demonize officers who themsleves lost children that is on them but their comments are as useless as they generic thoughts and prayers.
Agreed, it does seem disingenuous for commenters who regularly criticize police as overreacting to incidents, to suddenly call for aggressive, decisive, and lethal training and tactics.
It seems the incident commander made a bad decision. Since there was no one available to overrule him had the ICE SWAT team ignored him it would have created more chaos.
The real question is why the hell does ICE have a SWAT team? Shouldn’t that have been provided by the Texas Rangers?
@9, 16, 24, etc. Fortunately, the very question you ask was answered in today's Seattle Times article on the subject in the very first paragraph. "In August 2020, law enforcement officers from 5 agencies converged inside the hallway of a school in Uvalde, Texas, their guns drawn, role-playing how they would halt a gunman." Later on, the article mentions that the town's SWAT team was sent to schools to learn the layout.
They trained for this scenario, possibly inside this very school. But apparently that training was just expensive LARPing because they were too afraid to go in. "We might have gotten shot." says a PR officer. This from a town that spends 40% of its budget on police, and has a 9+ member SWAT team in a town of 13,000. Oh, and the police station was 2 minutes from the school.
Fuck the cops.
Thanks. Yeah, I didn't/don't have a source for this, but know that "active shooter" training is standard for pretty much every PD in the country these days. And given the (relative) frequency that these shootings happen n schools, I'd be shocked if this wasn't a standard element factored into all of those trainings.
The police had done training in the school
@38 claims "it does seem disingenuous for commenters who regularly criticize police as overreacting to incidents, to suddenly call for aggressive, decisive, and lethal training and tactics."
No, no it does not seem disingenuous. Cops claiming they fear their lives and murdering unarmed Black people and cops armed to the teeth standing around doing NOTHING while they listen to children get shot are EXACTLY THE SAME PROBLEM. Cops are fucking incompetent, useless pieces of shit who bilk taxpayers nationwide out of trillions of dollars. Cops are supposedly trained and expected to know how to do the jobs for which they are trained. And yet cops murder unarmed people (even children) ALL OF THE TIME and literally do nothing of any use during serious, mass casualty events (again, for which they have supposedly been trained). Another example of this gross incompetence is the recent subway shooting in NYC that happened despite the shooter being a known entity, there being cops on duty and cameras everywhere. The ONLY reason the cops arrested the guy (and didn't murder him outright) is because HE CALLED THEM FROM A PUBLIC PLACE, telling them where he was and that they should come arrest him.
There is literally no reason to have cops. They do not prevent or solve crime. They shoot and kill people they shouldn't and they do nothing with regard to mass shooters with white skin (other than take them in alive and buy them hamburgers).
And while the country has forgotten the mass shooting that just happened in Buffalo, that, too, was a case of gross incompetence given a former federal agent knew the shooting was planned and going to happen prior to it happening (and did nothing) and the cops who arrived at the scene did not kill the shooter (who at that time had his gun to his chin, ready to blow his brains out), but rather arrested him without incident.
reminder: In 2005, the Supreme Court ruled that there is no "'entitlement’ to receive protective services" from police https://www.salon.com/2022/05/27/uvalde-timeline-exposes-an-ugly-truth-the-police-have-no-legal-duty-to-protect-you/
I can think of only ONE incidence where cops attempted to respond to a mass casualty event (an event for which none of them had been trained, let alone could have fathomed happening) is 9/11. It caused more law enforcement line of duty of deaths than any other single incident in American history. >>>>SAYS A LOT CONSIDERING THE NUMBER OF MASS SHOOTINGS IN THIS COUNTRY.
"cops... [sic etc] need to be militarized"
No it fucking does not.
The rhetorical knots and feats of supra-paralogical contradictions our local authoritarian dipshits will tie themselves in to justify America's totally incompetent policing will never cease to astound me.
The Police department in Uvalde Texas takes up almost 40% of the municipal budget. They have gone through multiple "active shooter" trainings in the last ten years.
Here is the Uvalde "Tactical" team in all their glory.
In this thread we have heard from the SLOG Trollitariate that police entering an active shooter might actually end up killing more people?! So I guess just let children be slaughtered since police are no good.
This from the same posters that say we need more police paid more, bottomless budgets. These are same police that apparently only make dangerous situation worse according to the same posters.
Which is it? Jesus. Up is down. Black is white.
These trolls don't even know what they say from one day to the next.
@46 the only one saying anything remotely like that is the voices in your head Professor. The police in Uvalde also make $22/hr or $42k per year. Feel free to suggest an alternative with that money. No one is saying the police did the right thing here clearly they did not but for you and your ACAB crew to use this incident as yet another diatribe to abolish the police is banal and trite.
school kids as SJW Tools?
an anti-Po-po diatribe?
that's all this is?
these guys become Knights
in the coming Police State
once we reach the Tipping
Point their brethren in arms’ll
come scurrin’ outta the woodwork
head's UP womenfolk the gays Unionists and so on
even let us
Vote . for
so WHO we gonna
Bomb first? Cana-
Da or Mehico*
*the navel of the moon
the SCHLOG ‘Trollitariate’!
I like the cut of your
Meanwhile there are no guns allowed at the NRA event, specifically and especially at Trump's portion of the event, because he's afraid of being shot.
And Republicans with their thoughts and prayers need to be outed: (imagine the amounts we don't know about, especially with Moscow Mitch, these are the publicly known amounts) - more we can pin on the scrotus for their stating that our government is for sale to the highest bidders
Mitt Romney - $13,647,676 from the NRA
Mitch McConnell - $1,267,139 from the NRA
Todd Young - $2, 897, 582 from the NRA
Joni Ernst - $3, 124,773 from the NRA
Rob Portman - $3,063,327 from the NRA
David Perdue - $2,002,462 from the NRA
Tom Cotton - $1,968,714 from the NRA
Pat Toomey - $1,475,448 from the NRA
Marsha Blackburn - $1,306,130 from the NRA
Mike Braun - $1,249,967 from the NRA
Politicians with millions in their pockets from the NRA are never, ever, EVER going to legislate murder weapons. They are owned, wholly, by the NRA and the gun lobby.
Already the lies start. I quote:
“…its great to play Monday morning quarterback but what if the police had rushed in and the shooter ended up killing even more people?”
I guess you didn’t type that? Maybe you were in some fugue state. It would explain a great deal.
Again blip was 100% right. And you have no answer for it except to shriek about how everyone who thinks this is unacceptable is merely “anti-cop.”
No. We’re anti THESE COPS in this system that you inexhaustibly and inexcusably never fail to tie your self in contradictions to defend.
thanks for the Salon link xina:
Texas cops’ claims unravel: Police didn’t
"engage" Uvalde shooter -- but they
[hand-] cuffed scared parents.
and tasered. Rep.
Joaquin Castro wants
the FBI to investigate [as do i].
--by Igor Deryshi May 27, 2022
your Tax Dollars very
very Hard at Werk
yeah let’s keep
(omg did they say Rep. CASTRO!?)
and tasered.’ Nice!
just what you Needed
When your FUCKING KID
IS INSIDE WITH AN ACTIVE
MOTHERFUCKING S H O O T E R
"Feel free to suggest an alternative with that money."
Yeah, that's the basis of the "defund the police" argument, which you still clearly don't understand. That's on you at this point, and your CHOICE to remain ignorant on the topic.
"No one is saying the police did the right thing here clearly they did not but for you and your ACAB crew to use this incident as yet another diatribe to abolish the police is banal and trite."
How dare anyone use this sterling example of police incompetence in their argument against the police! It's almost as if you have no rebuttal and would rather dismiss it outright, hoping no one will notice.
@20, @22, @32, @43, and @50: xina for the spot on WIN!
‘Will worked as a consumer
debt protection attorney trying
to chip away at that injustice, to
depressingly little effect.’ Outspent by
a Hundred-or-so-to-one it’s No wonder
so could we Hope for
some of Ralph Nader’s
Consumer Protection stuff
right Here on la Schlog? coolsville!
& THNX !!
[so who’s tS’s
Editor these days?]
Loved your Werk
good luck &
huh, it Said '56'
how on Earth
we EVER gonna
TRUST the Stranger?
"do your small part to fight misinformation by relying on this roundup from the Washington Post"
Like the WP has some special inside line on the truth? It's all preliminary speculation at this time and, like many aircraft accidents, it's best to wait until all parties have been interviewed, all data collected and the official report is released.
Or won't that fit someone's plans for generating pre mid-term election outrage?
@54: 'Yeah, that's the basis of the "defund the police" argument, which you still clearly don't understand.'
No, the basis of the defund 'argument' is that by cutting police budgets to the simplest possible fraction, 1/2, we can quickly and easily effect the long-term, difficult cultural reforms that humans almost always reflexively resist. As another commenter here noted, it's the Underpants Gnomes in action. Using the money for other things is an additional benefit, not the basis for the proposal.
Defund is such an obviously bad idea, Seattle's electorate (as opposed to Seattle's screaming, self-appointed 'activists', whom the Stranger mistook for real voters) has rejected it at every offering.
@58: Bingo. Any complicated situation can look simple if you don't have all of the relevant facts. But patience is a virtue that takes too long for people who like to shout.
^ Says the guy who never failed to defend a rapist regardless of the facts presented.
@56 kristofarian: Chase Burns is leaving The Stranger? Another good one going, going, gone.
All the best, Chase. Thanks and kudos for superlative writing and reporting.
Tell Heidi Groover (now at The Seattle Times) that I said hi.
The people of Uvalde, Texas should arrest their useless Krispy Kreme Keystone Kops.
@59: Prof_Herr_Doktor_der_Schlockpuppetteer! How's your 37th account here treating you?
Say, if you know a guy who enjoys boysplaining logical fallacies, how about you have him drone moronically at you about the "ad hominem" one? While neither of you will get anything out of the experience, at least you'll leave the rest of us alone for a blessed while.
Oh, and if you have an real example of my defending someone who was actually convicted of a rape, in a court, by a jury, with a judge presiding, then by all means, paste quote and url, please. Otherwise, we can safely assume that by "facts presented," you mean, "emissions of male convicts swallowed." By you.
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