Gay People Can Quote The Bible Too

Comments

105
It never ceases to baffle me why anything from the bible is accepted as a justification for any sort of legislation. We are not a christian theocracy, we are a secular nation that touts itself as welcoming in people of all faiths. This country was founded as an escape from religious persecution yet here we are trying to impose religious law upon millions of people who have no connection with the system of beliefs they stem from.
106
@105 YES! I'm always so confused when people wave bible quotes at rallies! A quote from my 75 year old neighbor Phil has just as much authority. "My neighbor sez those gays are pretty okay folks." Who can argue with that????
107
Has anyone noticed that in these quotes, it talks about the father taking the virginity of the daughter? It's all a bunch of radical crap. I can't believe this conversation is taken so seriously. Really, even fighting the scripture is validating it's word. I'm all for the underlining spirituality behind religous ideas, because much of it is just general rules for life. BUT the majority of worlds religions have the same details on how to love and live together, and that is important, but unfortunately, most of them also have instructions of how to hate. Let's all get to the big picture people. It's supposed to be about unconditonal love.
108
@98 - You could switch the word "wife" to the word "spouse" and the meaning of the verse wouldn't change at all.

Think about it.
109
@ Hernandez #40- the writings in the bible, especially the new testament, lends itself to vast interpretations, all of which are used to validate a sect's or one's own belief and circumstances. It also incorporated old jewish laws, some of which were abandoned in order to entice gentiles to join the new faith, hence the new testament. There were many interpretations garnered from the old script. It wasn't until King James decreed an 'official' interpretation, that we came to what is almost generally accepted as the 'real' bible. Originally, the bible was not intended for the masses to read, but for the bishops and priests to use it to scare the illiterate and ignorant masses into conformity. The masses can, for the most part, read now, however some christians rely on the interpretations passed down over the centuries as the 'truth'. On the other hand, others are more open to critical thinking and interpretation, rather than following the status quo. So to say "countering christian ignorance with one's own ignorance of the bible doesn't prove anything" really is a misstatement. A fair statement would be: The bible is subjected to interpretation. and by it's own means, promotes ignorance. No one can 'correctly' say what it means and does not mean.
110
So much ignorance about Christianity . . . . and yet so many opinions.
111
@ sandman #110- I agree, so much ignorance....
112
It hard to know if it is funnier or more cringe inducing when Slog starts debating the Bible...
113
[Rev. Lovejoy, counseling Marge] "Get a divorce."

[Marge] "But isn't that a sin?"

[Lovejoy] "Marge, just about everything is a sin. Y'ever sat down and read this thing? Technically, we're not allowed to go to the bathroom."

Many more Simpsons theology quotes at:
http://tinyurl.com/nbs2xe
114
Cato the Younger Younger @5 cherry-picking is a necessity in all the faiths dependent on the bible since not only are passages often in conflict with each other, but exact meaning of some of the original Hebrew (or in the case of the New Testament, the original Greek) is lost to time, as is much of the context, so the translators who write the various versions are invoking a lot of guesswork and personal opinion (and in some cases, as in the story of Sodom, intentionally mistranslating the bible to suit either contemporary agendas, or to reflect public opinion).

In several hierarchical churches, such as the Roman Catholic Church, in Orthodox Judaism and the Church of Latter Day Saints, high-level councils review controversial passages to choose a uniform interpretation, and they define which passages are more relevant to contemporary civilization than not. (The Catholics, for example, condemn capital punishment and Israelite expansionism, even though both are commanded in the Old Testament). In Protestant faiths, however, the responsibility is on the individual to realize God's will, hence to decide for himself or herself which passages are relevant. The ministries they follow can only guide by offering a second opinion. Some such miniseries, though (such as the Southern Baptist Convention) can be rather forceful with their positions.

Cherry-picking is a necessity in all forms of personal spiritual development. Many Buddhist parables (or kōans) point this very thing out, whether a master is dismissed in his beggar robes but welcomed in his vestments, or the same master is obeyed blindly by his students without a second (critical) thought; one doesn't follow or revere Buddha because he is Buddha or wears fancy clothes, but because what he says resonates with the listener as wise and good.

So the various Christian sects that condemn homosexuality aren't being douche-bags for cherry-picking scripture; they're douche-bags for poorly choosing which scripture they cherry-pick.
115
Regarding the sign, I don't think displaying hard passages in protest of (homophobic use of) the anti-gay clobber passages is going to be very effective. Indeed it may incline some to push for tighter adherence through legislation to Mosaic law. Christians know, even fundamentalist ones, that they cherry-pick scripture, or loosen interpretation through context regarding those that disagree with contemporary secular mores. If we must quote scripture, I'd rather see ones that illustrate the hypocrisy of bigoted behavior, such as Matthew 25:40 or 1 John 4:20

More importantly, lest we forget, the bible does not have any authority in the US, and by playing the scripture game lends it authority in the debate. When it comes to the law of the US, we fall back on the precedent of the Lemon test, which acknowledges that dogma alone is not enough reason to proscribe a commodity or behavior.
116
the thing about Christianity is that its dogma, superstitions & bizarre voodoo are not compelling, or even interesting. If Christians were honest, they would admit that it is all a house of cards, created by ancient bigots intent on controlling the masses...which come to think of it, is what all religions seek to do today.

all organized religions are essentially the same...they are about power & spreading their brand name.

Penn & Teller are right on...Christians cannot cherry pick what they like or don't like about the Bible. Either *all* of it is the 'infallible word of God', or it isn't.

so what if some of its cuddly platitudes sound good ("Do unto others as you would have others do unto you"...well - no shit!). Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

if there is anything to it, the Christian God is one weird dude for sure.

enough already!
117
..and then there are all of the Christians who DON'T cherry-pick verses from the Bible. You know, the ones who don't think gay people are going to hell? To bad none of them get written up on Slog.
118
Gay people continues to openly misrepresent contexts they can find to justify their sexual addiction and shortcoming.
This is exactly how these gay people are brainwashing, passing WRONG information to weak minded boys and men the can find just to get their ANUS.
ANUS is NOT for sex.
ANUS is for SHIT

People standup and tell gay people and the government NO to this disgusting and confusing way of life.
People stop encouraging gay lifestyle by sympathizing, they know what they’re doing and know way their going.

Gay lifestyle will totally destroy the family structure.
Gay lifestyle will destroy our boys and girls (its happening now).
Gay lifestyle will totally destroy the value and purpose of man and woman.
Say No To Gay Agendas.
Think of your Sons and Daughters, Nieces and nephews, is this the type of lifestyle you wish for them. If you don’t Stop Gays, Gays will Stop you.

People,
If you see GOOD say its GOOD.
If you see BAD say its BAD.

Its BAD for a man to Sex another man (likewise woman)
Gay is BAD, its the living truth.

** No haters please **
119
Apparently, ceeng @118 you didn't get the memo pointing out that by far, men and women have more anal intercourse then gays.

I find it ironic that you would request No haters please after such a post. What the heck did you think you were doing? Sharing Jesus' love?

So:

So where is this brainwashing occurring that infects weak minded boys and men with the gay? That's more of a tactic used by organized churches than by sexual minorities?

How does a lifestyle being disgusting and confusing (to you) make it any less legitimate? To be sure, your own is disgusting and confusing to others in this world.

How will the Gay lifestyle totally destroy the family structure? Or destroy our boys and girls? Or totally destroy the value and purpose of man and woman? Please be specific. Y'know, they said these things about the radio and the tandem bicycle, once.

Oh, and what is, exactly the gay lifestyle, since it's not just anal sex? Show tunes and M&Ms in toll house cookies?

So far, I've not seen a single reason not to let kids be raised by and around gays. Not one. In fact, from what I've seen, conservative Christians and overeager evangelists are, by far, more dangerous.

I think you need to study more before spouting off on SLOG topic boards, ceeng. Indeed, you sound terrified, but I think gays as a group are a pretty tame bunch. They're not going to eat you or court your children.
120
Hey @118- Am I gay because I'm a women and I let my boyfriend fuck my anus? Did he and I somehow get recruited without me realizing it???! Holy shit. Those fucking gays. They snuck into my sex life and I didn't even notice! Thank you so much for bringing it to my attention that my anus is for shit not sex. I'll never have anal sex again!!!
*Please, note the sarcasm
121
One more thing, @118, you say that "Gay lifestyle will totally destroy the family structure".
I think the biggest injustice against gay people is that we aren't THANKING them for adopting so many unwanted children- children who would otherwise grow up without a family, or suffer an even worse fate if they are from an impoverished country.
So, THANK YOU gay men, for SAVING so many children and providing them with a family. You are my HEROES!
And if any of you think that letting a child remain an orphan is better than having that child live with a gay family, then you are too fucked up to be reasoned with and will burn in "hell".
122
We are a secular nation, so why get in a pissing match about a two thousand year old collection of stories that has been manipulated through the centuries to promote whatever political agenda the publisher's boss was pushing at the time? And if you are going to get into Bible quoting, which version are you going to use? King James or Douay-Rheims? Or is there another version out there now that I'm not aware of?

Besides, the country is full of people who can't spell or do math, but have the Bible memorized. They may not know what it means, but they have it memorized. There's no point in getting into it with them, because they're like vending machines, scripturally speaking.

123
@122 - There are a lot of other versions now, all of which have signifcantly better scholarship that either of those versions. Evangelical Protestants (the ones who aren't fundamentalists) tend use the New International Version. Mainline Protestants (mainly Lutherans, Episcopalians, and some Methodists and Presbyterians) use the New Revised Standard Version. Catholics in the US use the New American Bible - elsewhere they use either the Jerusalem Bible or the NRSV.

And totally agree with you on that last point - even speaking as a Christian. I tend not to trust people who quote me chapter and verse from memory when trying to make a theological argumemt for or against something. They tend to be close-minded and unwilling to listen to the other side of the issue.
124
And then there's the story, both in Matthew and Luke where the big leather-daddy MP Captain, his golden helmet shining like the disc of the sun (both the original Greek and the Latin translation use "centurion" literally meaning an officer who commands a hundred men) who comes up to Jesus and asks him to heal his fuckslave (Matthew uses "pais", meaning the boy who empties my chamber pot, Luke uses "dolomos" meaning manservant, and the Latin uses "catamite" meaning fuckslave).

Jesus doesn't condemn the Captain for keeping a fuckslave, rather he commends him for his faith and heals the fuckslave.

There's also the story about the merchant beaten and naked by the roadside who is rescued by faggot. (All original and early sources use "Samaratin" meaning a member of a nearly extinct sect of Judaism who maintains disgustingly liberal views about the roles of women and the assholes of men).

It's clear from this that Jesus' opinion of perverts who are otherwise good people apart from their perversity is essentially positive. There's really no other valid way to interpret it. If you want to use the Bible to justify discriminating against gay people, you have to ignore the Gospel.
125
124
Nor did Jesus condemn the adulterous woman.
So OBVIOUSLY Adultery is OK, right?
126
I pity a lot you gay people, reading some of your postings here. Completely baseless and always manipulative. This is what you do best, manipulating anything around you just to get a fellow man to sex you. Look at all your interpretation of the Holy Scripture; it is only devil/evil that will twist the HS in this form, saying what its not. Why all this, just for you to brainwash a fellow man for sex, just for your bodily pleasure.
#120:
You are a useless girl for you to allow your gay boyfriend to sex you in the anus. I guess your still single, no real descent man will marry you for you are worthless. Only gay, bi-sexual person can marry you but it will be a useless life because there will be no value to your marriage life. Change now and leave a beautiful life for you have a real things to pleasure a man and yourself NOT YOUR ANUS.

To you people learning or thinking of gay life, run away from this lifestyle it will destroy you and your family. Think of your mom, dad, brothers and sisters, they will be devastated, it’s a useless way of life. Sober yourself and read some of the postings here, these hardcore gays will do anything to get you.

Run away from any gay person you know or practicing gay lifestyle.
Do not accept any offers no matter how bad things might be for you now.
Talk to someone.

Man Most Not Sex Another Man.
Woman Most Not Sex Another Woman.

A-Word-Is-Enough-For-A-Wise.
127
I am sad to see so many false Christians who haven't got to that part in John--"in the Lord's place, there are many dwellings." He is making a place for us--all of us--and those who don't follow the Lord's compassion are simply not following Him.

And thus, it follows that God created the gays not for *you* to judge them and cast them out as sinners, but for you to be judged in your compassion and your recognition of all his children and his Creation.

128
The more I see/read from evangelist Christians (note lower case) the more it appears the new atheists are correct: religion is destructive to reason, and contrary to the development of civilization.
129
I suppose I should specify: revealed religion is destructive to reason and...
130
Hey! FINALLY - we have a new troll! Thanks, ceeng. Your total lack of sense and grammar and spelling has made my day. "I pity a lot you gay people", indeed. (Guffaw.)

@Alinka@57: FTW! That would be a much better quote to put on a poster. Either that or "Let he who is without sin" or "For God so loved the world ... what have YOU ever given the world, fucker?"
131
While the sign at the top of this article may not be pristine in its accuracy, it makes a good point that I think some religious people honestly don't realize: namely, that many of their own legally-protected behaviors are biblically condemned.

It's a good lesson for them to learn, because it therefore follows that perhaps gay people should be have the same legal protections that straight people have, and leave the bible out of it. I don't think these arguments work on many deeply evangelical people (there is always some technicality or excuse), but religious folks who are 'ill at ease' with gay people often realize that U.S. law and the bible don't mix well for them or anyone else. The double-standard becomes gradually evident to them, and while they often won't admit it the change begins to happen inwardly.

Personally, my favorite to use is Mark 10: 11:" And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her."

That's Jesus Christ himself speaking. So many people in this country are divorced and remarried, and upon seeing this passage a lot of folks realize that a biblical standard regarding marriage and divorce would be insufferable.
132
126: There's something seriously wrong with you, sir/madam. Only someone who sees them self as worthless and useless, tries to bully others by calling them worthless and useless. I pity you.
133
Most christians in America do not actually practice christianity anyway - they are practicing a political system for the repression of others. We can see this from their very un-christian behavior in political and social matters.

For this reason, most of these so-called 'churches' are not really religious and therefore should not be treated as tax-exempt religious organizations. In fact, most of the problems we have in this country right now would go away if we did away with tax exemptions for religious organizations altogether. Most of them are just political lobbying organizations and/or cynical business schemes to separate the gullible from their money.

134
As a Christian -- and a gay man -- I have no problem with using Bible verses against the forces of repression, be they Christian or otherwise. But you should know that Christians make -- and have made since the first century -- a distinction between Jewish law (of which this injunction is part) and those aspects of it which the followers of Jesus may be morally bound to follow. See, e.g., Acts 15.
135
ceeng @118 & 126: I thought the Bible also notes that judgement is reserved for God? As for your opinion, I will agree to disagree with you; it is not my place to belittle your personal beliefs. Also, I don't think any gay person would be upset if you were to "run away from [their] lifestyle," and leave them alone.

Personally, I have trouble believing that anyone would "choose" a life of persecution from those like yourself; thus my belief is that no one "chooses" to be gay. I am a bit saddened by the general casualization of marriage amongst straight people, and on this basis I find it difficult to justify denying a gay couple the right to marriage based solely on sexual orientation.
136
#135:
I am not judging anyone for am not God but make no mistake as you and I share this world/community and you’re bringing BAD or EVIL behavior, I will try to help to stop it. It is WRONG, DISGRACEFUL, DISGUSTING, BEASTILISH, MORONIC for a Man To Lay Another Man (why not a chimpanzee or dog they have ANUS too).

It is WRONG and DISGRACEFUL for a man change and act like a woman (for you’re not a woman) NO MAN IS CREATED TO CHANGE HIMSELF TO A WOMAN.
It is EVIL for a PERSON TO BE IN DISGUISE (TRANSVESTITES), A man with penis and a breast and face makeup paints like a woman. Why would a man do this to himself?

Why would a man look up to another man or woman seeing that this is ANUS for SHIT and still deep inside it. It is the wrong place to look for body pleasure. (Why don’t you take a mug and get your drinking water from your toilet, its clean right?)

Every gay person learnt/practiced this act from/with someone and you got hooked.
And now you’re telling the world God created you that way. PLEASE STOP!
Also please guys stop this MAN MARRYING MAN IDEA nonsense. This is the height of shamelessness. Man and man marrying looks like a Hollywood movie. Please it sends a very bad message to out children.

GAY LIFE is the MOST SHAMEFUL LIFE A MAN CAN LEAVE in THIS WORLD.
This lifestyle is condemned in the Holy Bible and the Holy Koran
#134, practice what you preach. You cannot be a Christian and still leaving in the most condemned, shameful and degrading homosex life. You most pick one; it’s your choice, the ball on your court now. What you will do is entirely up to you and that’s what am talking about.

Gay people help yourself and the mankind. Homosex life is nothing but a wasteful and unfruitful lifestyle just for a five minutes body pleasure.
Please STOP destroying our sons and daughters for (Bad thing is the easiest thing to learn). The destruction and devastation the HOMOSEXUALITY will bring to this world is just starting, the effect will be in the future and all of us here will not be round to see it first hand. Unfortunately, it’s our children that will bare the cross.
Read #118 again.

You can kick this shameful addiction, find and talk to honest person that can help you.
EVERY ADDICTION IS POSSIBLE TO KICK

They are hundreds of support groups that can help you such as this site:
http://www.gaytostraight.org/Home.asp

Take the first step now.
Thanks.
137
ceeng @136 I only read your first paragraph. The minute you refer to something as, oh, WRONG, DISGRACEFUL, DISGUSTING, etc. etc. ad nauseum, you're making a judgment. Ergo, you're being judgmental.

You are too blind to your own issues to be able to effectively assess those of others. Go, take a chill pill, dude.
138
dictionary defines wife as a woman joined in marriage to a man; and this sign indicates that marriages are only valid if there is a wife and she is a virgin.
139

Ceengie, pussycat, stick around, please. You are a hoot.


140
As Shakespeare wrote, "The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose." The point is, regardless of its historical context, the Bible is a piece of ancient literature. While it's respectable if some people choose to live by its teachings, the Bible is open to interpretation and is malleable to each man's values. The fault of anti-gay discrimination lies not in the Bible, but in the people who take every written word as THE truth, when those words may just be a part of A truth that no longer works for today's society.
141
Christians often use Scripture (as they should) to back up their beliefs about same sex relations or unions and this is someone's counter. This really upsets me. First of all, this is OBVIOUSLY not a QUOTE since there are two short sentences based on 9 verses of scripture. Secondly as Christians we know that we are not held accountable for Old Testament law/customs/traditions. Jesus dying on the cross for our sins absolves us of the guilt for our sins if we repent. Deuteronomy IS in the Old Testament therefore if anyone did this today it wouldn't be justified through God or by the laws of the land. This person probably just picked a verse that would spark controversy and alienate Christians even more from non-believers. Also I don't think this is a very accurate paraphrase. Really, what the verse is saying is if the woman lies to the man by agreeing to marry him, knowing she is not a virgin, and the man finds out and publicly accuses her of this then and only then can she be stoned if the man so chooses. You can't just pick bits and pieces out of the Bible. This person may not have known that this passage is not applicable to life today, or maybe they did and just wanted to spark controversy. Either way using this to portray God or Christians as malice/unloving/hateful people backfires once you know the context of the Scripture and Old Testament itself. But just as we, as Christians, are supposed to use the knowledge of the Scriptures that we have to help the world, we are not to judge them or condemn them to hell for by doing so we are just as bad as them labeling us as self-righteous Christians. We are to hate the sin NOT the sinner. I think people get the wrong idea of Christians altogether because of the few who stand up "in the name of the LORD", but who are not proclaiming His word. It is weird how people can be more accepting of someone who committed murder and repented than someone who engages in homosexual activity. Are they not both sins? They are and God forgives all sins. Anyhow, sorry for the rant. I just think people have the wrong idea about ACTUAL followers of Christ and what we believe.
142
according to the Law (Old Testament) we should all be executed....thankfully Jesus died for the sins of all mankind and became the sacrifice for us!
143
@21, @31. The sign is clearly a paraphrase in order to point toward hypocrisy in the way politically conservative Christians use the Bible to suit their bigotries. There's no real point in debating the fine points of the entire passage unless you're saying "as written, it's not a bad law, it's just being misrepresented."

The image seems to have been posted to make the point that there are all kinds of barbarous "laws" of the past that nobody follows but are side-by-side with passages that Christians have used to selectively condemn those they considered immoral even before finding the convenient "word of God" to back them up. I went to a Christian grade school and was raised in a church-going family and I don't know anyone who actually knew much about Leviticus until I started seeing it quoted as a basis for hating homosexuals.

Christians may find it convenient to point to those few passages that suit their bigotry, but in ignoring the other passages in their daily lives, they make themselves into hypocrites. If they were to actually follow the laws of Leviticus to the letter, they would be barbarians even to themselves. So, if you have a problem with the mixed and out-of-date messages of Leviticus and disagree with their applicability to modern society...go to a blog where people are spewing that kind of hate and corral the extreme members of your own faith with a little of Christ's message of love.

The point of the image is to highlight that often bigotry and hypocrisy appear more ascendant and relevant in conservative Christian politics than Christ's message of love, tolerance and inclusion. Quit defending the use of arcane passages of 6000 year-old Jewish desert tribal law to defend systematic social persecution in 21st century America.
144
@21, @31. The sign is clearly a paraphrase in order to point toward hypocrisy in the way politically conservative Christians use the Bible to suit their bigotries. There's no real point in debating the fine points of the entire passage unless you're saying "as written, it's not a bad law, it's just being misrepresented."

The image seems to have been posted to make the point that there are all kinds of barbarous "laws" of the past that nobody follows but are side-by-side with passages that Christians have used to selectively condemn those they considered immoral even before finding the convenient "word of God" to back them up. I went to a Christian grade school and was raised in a church-going family and I don't know anyone who actually knew much about Leviticus until I started seeing it quoted as a basis for hating homosexuals.

Christians may find it convenient to point to those few passages that suit their bigotry, but in ignoring the other passages in their daily lives, they make themselves into hypocrites. If they were to actually follow the laws of Leviticus to the letter, they would be barbarians even to themselves. So, if you have a problem with the mixed and out-of-date messages of Leviticus and disagree with their applicability to modern society...go to a blog where people are spewing that kind of hate and corral the extreme members of your own faith with a little of Christ's message of love.

The point of the image is to highlight that often bigotry and hypocrisy appear more ascendant and relevant in conservative Christian politics than Christ's message of love, tolerance and inclusion. Quit defending the use of arcane passages of 6000 year-old Jewish desert tribal law to defend systematic social persecution in 21st century America.
145
The New Testement is the laws christians follow today because it was the new TESTAMENT god set down by the death of his son on calvary. homosexuals do the same cherry picking thing you accuse christians of and they do it to make them selves feel assured in what they want just like you are accussing christians of, but of course them and the rest of society run 90 miles an hour from a christian who is an actuall bible beliving christian and istead focus on the ones out there who do exsactly what your saying or in other words (Cheery-Picking) out the "Christians" who support your points. as far as I have seen in my christian walk everyone screams bigot an homophob at christians who preach or teach the bible but now no one has a problem when main stream society walks around insulting and trying to do away with god form everything from school to banks to public building. it wont be long till the revelation so all I have to say is if you are walking around with the belief that two boys or two girls having sex is okay read the new testamen its in romans. if you cheery-pick out you verses I suggest you get to the alter and Repent (not only be sorry but turn away from the sin is the meaning to that word intresting that most people forget the second part aint it)Because if you dont you have a Serious problem and you can call me a bigot, rasict, homopob, or any other term that makes you feel better if you want and you most likly will but god loves you and ill be praying for you because a sinner is a sinner but a sinner who is convinced they are rightous is far closer to hell for they cant be convinced of thier sins.
146
The New Testement is the laws christians follow today because it was the new TESTAMENT god set down by the death of his son on calvary. homosexuals do the same cherry picking thing you accuse christians of and they do it to make them selves feel assured in what they want just like you are accussing christians of, but of course them and the rest of society run 90 miles an hour from a christian who is an actuall bible beliving christian and istead focus on the ones out there who do exsactly what your saying or in other words (Cheery-Picking) out the "Christians" who support your points. as far as I have seen in my christian walk everyone screams bigot an homophob at christians who preach or teach the bible but now no one has a problem when main stream society walks around insulting and trying to do away with god form everything from school to banks to public building. it wont be long till the revelation so all I have to say is if you are walking around with the belief that two boys or two girls having sex is okay read the new testamen its in romans. if you cheery-pick out you verses I suggest you get to the alter and Repent (not only be sorry but turn away from the sin is the meaning to that word intresting that most people forget the second part aint it)Because if you dont you have a Serious problem and you can call me a bigot, rasict, homopob, or any other term that makes you feel better if you want and you most likly will but god loves you and ill be praying for you because a sinner is a sinner but a sinner who is convinced they are rightous is far closer to hell for they cant be convinced of thier sins.
147
One wrong does not make two rights. I'm pretty sure even those outside of Christianity agree on that.

Sadly, it is true that many Christians (and churches) pick and choose the parts of the bible they wan't to follow, ignoring the rest.

It is also true, that non-Christians who do not study the bible, attend church, or follow the religion cannot interpret the bible verses effectively or use them to suit their own needs (against Christianity). Actually, most Christians today are not capable of doing that effectively.

The first thing you have to understand when reading the bible, is that it was still written by man at a certain time in history even though it is the word of God. If you truly want to learn God's word, you must read between the lines, realize that a lot of what is written in the bible is written according to the laws and ways of those times, then be willing to understand the POINT that is being made in the verse. So they stoned women back in the day, the POINT is, don't do it.

However, saying that because many women are no longer marrying as virgins, does not make any other thing we the people are doing wrong okay. Actually, I feel confident God does not want us to cast his Word at each other like stones saying, "Well, you are doing this wrong so I can do wrong as well!"

I have this crazy belief that we should never attempt to go against what is natural. We all know what is natural and what is not. There is no bible verse, common sense, or argument that can change this.

You can bend the rules, change the laws, brainwash the children, and preach to the people, but in the end right is right and wrong is wrong and none of these attempts can change it. We will ALL be judged in the end equally just as our wrongs are all sins equally.
148
I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;

3 you shall have no other gods before me.
6 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;

7 you shall have no other gods before me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

6 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.
8 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me,

10 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name. 11 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.
8 Remember the sabbath day, and keep it holy.

9 For six days you shall labour and do all your work.

10 But the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns.

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and consecrated it.
12 Observe the sabbath day and keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you.

13 For six days you shall labour and do all your work.

14 But the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, or your son or your daughter, or your male or female slave, or your ox or your donkey, or any of your livestock, or the resident alien in your towns, so that your male and female slave may rest as well as you.

15 Remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day.
12 Honour your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you. 16 Honour your father and your mother, as the Lord your God commanded you, so that your days may be long and that it may go well with you in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.
13 You shall not murder. 17 You shall not murder.
14 You shall not commit adultery. 18 Neither shall you commit adultery.
15 You shall not steal. 19 Neither shall you steal.
16 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour. 20 Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbour.
17 You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour. 21 Neither shall you covet your neighbor’s wife.

Neither shall you desire your neighbor’s house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

so we are ALL SINNERS and NOBODY is going to heaven because WE ALL go against these 10 laws either or implicitly or directly!!!! WAR, POVERTY, TRADE GOODS, STANDARDS OF LIVING...all of these things that we participate in are against the 10 commandments...most all inclusively is NOT MURDER clause...we all have supported WAR and the killing of others to serve our own purposes, and if we stood by and let it happen then we are no different ( my opinion, maybe the ones who didn't actually participate will get in)
149
The word marriage is not found in the bible! it was used under cannon law starting in the 9th century to protect the fathfull from being killed for being christians! Young couples would sneek off and have their civil union's blessed! Under cannon law the names where then listed as a marriage.Those married in the church recived the holy sacrament of matramony.The release of the names 900 years later was the comming out of christians!! in the 1700's Thats about the same time the judao christian's formed the united states! With the idea that all relgions could live togeather freely with out persacustion whether you work for the goverment or not! also every bible quiots Iv'e read are not against gay's but those who are not gay but practice it for pleasure only! it does prohibit gays from having sex with straight's.If it is your nature to lay with the same sex then i see no sin
150
The word marriage is not found in the bible! it was used under cannon law starting in the 9th century to protect the fathfull from being killed for being christians! Young couples would sneek off and have their civil union's blessed! Under cannon law the names where then listed as a marriage.Those married in the church recived the holy sacrament of matramony.The release of the names 900 years later was the comming out of christians!! in the 1700's Thats about the same time the judao christian's formed the united states! With the idea that all relgions could live togeather freely with out persacustion whether you work for the goverment or not! also every bible quotes Iv'e read are not against gay's but those who are not gay but practice it for pleasure only! it does prohibit gays from having sex with straight's.If it is your nature to lay with the same sex then i see no sin
151
Let me "cherry pick" an NT verse:

“Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” John 8:7 RSV

(although my Bible is NIV)
152
The only problem is that it doesn't say that. See http://patentlyjewish.com/reading-torah-…