SL Letter of the Day: Monogamously Non-Monogamous

Comments

1
Maybe AFRAID could think of it this way: you could have TWO hot guys wanting you at one time if you let them enjoy each other as well! I could see the fun in that.
2
Bisexuality and monogamy are not at all mutually exclusive. He can be bi and monogamous. Being monogamous has absolutely nothing to do with being 100% sexually satisfied. It's a conscious choice, despite wanting, sometimes or rarely, to fuck other people. You don't just fall in love and stop noticing sexy people, no matter what your orientation.

"If the situation were reversed"? Does that mean he wouldn't mind you fucking other women if you were bi? Because you're not, so offering that isn't at all equality. Ask him if he's willing to let you fuck other men. If he is, at least he is offering you the same nonmonogamous opportunities. If he's willing to consider it, it says a lot more for him then the let me fuck around on you, it's cool cause I'm bi, stance I'm seeing, through my own lens of course.

Either way, he wants this badly enough to put it to you, even though it might mean breaking up, and prohibiting it might not even prevent it. He gets credit for being honest rather than sneaking around, which is what lots of closeted bi dudes do. They don't have to give up their straight card or worry about their female partners leaving them. Kudos to him for that. But if you can't let him, and you certainly don't have to, you should probably let him go, sow his bisexual oats, and come back when/if he's ready to be monogamous. Or, let him find a woman who does find it hot and is cool with what he wants. You want monogamy, and he doesn't. Being bi is the reason, but good reason or not, it's still a dealbreaker.
3
Maybe if she got to pick the guy, one that she was attracted to...?

I kind of wish my boyfriend was bi; that's pretty hot.

Dan didn't really answer her question, though, since she said she's not interested in having threeways (which is a good suggestion). What should she do then? Would this be a situation where they'd have to break up due to sexual incompatibility?
4
The real question I would like to ask the LW's boyfriend: if he wasn't dating her, would he still be dating women at all?
5
It is very important to remember that emotions are a separate thing from sexual attraction. He can be attracted to another man, fuck him, suck him, and have a grand old sexual time, without losing his love, attraction or feelings for you.

You two will probably have a better chance of staying together in the long run if he is able to get the occasional pass to play with the guys. Safely of course. This will also give you an opportunity for a future pass to play with someone else if you ever get to that point.

Also, don't underestimate how hot watching two guys together can be. Even if you don't play, you can participate. There are a lot of ladies out here who would love to be in your position. The best thing you can do is keep the conversation open, so you both feel safe to talk about the taboo stuff, without freaking out. Start by putting limits on the play time, and check in regularly. Maybe you could allow him to have oral sex with another dude, and see how that goes. Baby steps. Good luck.
6
I'm a straight guy, and my first experience of opposite-sex fuckinandsuckin definitely didn't match my fantasies of opposite-sex-fuckinandsuckin... Doesn't mean I wasn't really straight, it means the first experience doesn't necessarily count for much.
7
If the LW and her SO live in a city with any good queer bars, they could try going just to hang out. That might give them both the chance to feel out alternative dynamics to their current relationship.

It is one thing to talk about his same-sex attraction, but having some beers, meeting some folks, maybe flirting a little is a little toe in the water. Both of them might find that reality is not as bad/good as they think right now.

I am assuming that they are a fairly young couple, and whatever they do it would be a huge mistake to try to do the long-term committed monogamy thing if he has never gottne to explore this side of himself. There is no way that that will go well.

They ought to explore this together.
8
The thought of a threeway "never occurred" to her? Really?
9
She titled herself well, because fear is the only real issue here.

She needs to give herself some time and think things through, then act out of hope and desire and intention, not fear. Do something rational and courageous. Take no counsel of your fears. They will destroy you.

Turn the idea of him occasionally - or maybe even just once! - having sex with a man, or even sharing another man with you, over in your head for a while, AFRAID. Really think it through from all the angles. Ask yourself what could really, honestly go wrong. Tumble that scary idea around in your brain until all the jagged edges are worn off of it and it's not scary any more, and you can you see its real colors and make a judgment call about whether or not it's something you want, or don't want, or aren't excited about but could handle.
10
@8: She sounds *very* young.

AFRAID: Maybe have a short-term breakup where he can sow his wild oats in a DADT sort of way? The bi people I've known who've best been able to commit to monogamy were ones that had previously been able to enjoy both men and women and were now ready to settle down with no regrets. I can't imagine that it wouldn't be harder to be thinking about marrying someone and never having been with any guys at all.
11
I can't believe Dan or any other commenters didn't offer an alternate more likely scenario: the boyfriend is gay, grew up in a non-supporting family, and has not come to terms with his sexuality. Some gay men can be "functionally straight" until they meet a male sex partner and understand what they really want.

The likelihood that he is a gay man beginning to open the closet is much stronger than him being a bisexual or would be fulfilled with a MF three-way.
12
@11: I think I've heard that the numbers on gay men vs bi men are pretty close to equal. Am I wrong about that?
13
This one's easy.

Promise him you'll let him fuck around with men after you get married. When he brings it up after the wedding, tell him maybe but you don't like being pressured. When that story has run its course, just tell him no, turns out you aren't comfortable with it after all.
16
If he was attracted to redheaded women, but never had one, I don't think a threesome would be the solution. The reality is he wants to get something outside of the relationship. I don't blame him for trying, but I do think they are not sexually compatible. He wants to sleep with others (bi or not); she doesn't.
17
@2 - I think you make an important point that bisexual people are certainly capable of monogamy, as capable as anyone else. Most people have many "types," and if they end up in a monogamous relationship, that will mean foregoing some of those types.

But an important difference here is that he hasn't had a chance to experience being with a guy, and it sounds like he will always wonder what he's missed. Some sort of semi-controlled opportunity to experience it might help, whether that be through three ways or a short term opportunity to have a few affairs on a DADT basis.
18
I think 11 has a point. Because remove the sexy bi aspect: when you settle down with one person in a monogamous relationship, they don't get to have sex with all sorts of other people: gender, size, sexy foreign accent, all the other things that make other possible sex partners Not You. If someone explains to you that monogamy means he can never have sex with a female basketball player, and he has ALWAYS wondered what that would be like, would you be open to him sometimes having sex with basketball players? Or figure that it was monogamy specifically with you specifically (either or both) that was the problem?

There's nothing wrong with wanting monogamy. It's good you're being honest with each other, but that may not be enough to make things work: you can't be monogamous/ish at the same time. Food for thought: You both seem to assume he could never become emotionally involved with another man, and you REALLY have no evidence that is the case, that it would always be just physical fun with no emotional entanglement.

@6(?) has a good point about the first experiment not always laying things to rest.

19
Dan has an excellent point about him maybe thinking he's bi until he does something about it. I would have sworn I was bi after all of the fantasizing I did until I actually had sex with a woman and was... bored. She was attractive, but nothing about that encounter was appealing (though it wasn't "gross" either. Just meh). So I still have my fantasies, but the reality must include a penis :)
20
@17 - but she says "I know I would not feel comfortable with that" about his desire to sleep with other men while dating her. Whether it's fear or just her genuine feeling of commitment to one person, it sounds like she's thought about it and isn't interested. Getting to nonmonogamy through exploring his desires and ignoring hers is not the recipe for success. The only reason she'd be doing it is not to lose him, which is as shitty a reason as I can think of. If she is interested in other men, perhaps there's a window there.

I totally think he needs to explore this side of himself, as not doing so is just asking to be bit in the ass by it at some point later. I just think in their situation it would be better that he do it by himself.

Also worth pointing out - successful, healthy threesomes and bisexual play are varsity level sports and it doesn't sound like they are even playing the game. Seeing your partner with another woman for the first time is hard. Seeing them with someone who doesn't even share a gender with you, and therefore with whom you can't even compete, is fucking terrifying. And I say this as someone who both thinks it's hot and is currently already practicing nonmonogamy.
21
Yes, the guy might be a closet gay, but he also might be what he says he is. I'm a (95%) straight female married to a guy who, like the guy described in this letter, likes to occasionally suck cock. I don't blame him - cocks are great. He told me this (and his feeling that 100% monogamy is not necessarily feasible) before we got married. On occasion (just a few times in our >5yr marriage) we've gotten together with a guy or couple for some fooling around. Rather than it being a "cheating" thing, it's been fun for both of us. Being able to be totally honest with your mate, and being able to totally trust your mate, is a great thing.

Now, my guy doesn't have any romantic feelings towards other guys. I don't know if AFRAID's boyfriend does or not. But if he only is sexually, not romantically, attracted to other guys, then it isn't that intimidating to me (not quite the right word...). I know that even though my husband likes to occasionally suck cock, he will never leave me for a guy because he doesn't LOVE guys. So it is less scary to me than if he wanted a 3-way with another woman.

Oh, and one last thing, advice to AFRAID. When my husband said he was interested in fooling around with a guy, and wanted to know a) if I was ok with that, and b) whether I wanted to join him for a 3-way or if I'd rather he just go alone, I didn't know at the time if I'd enjoy that 3-way. But I knew that I would NOT enjoy sitting home alone, wondering what was going on, while he met up with a guy. So I said, let's do it together. And we all had fun, and now I can honestly say that it's not that big a deal that my husband likes to occasionally suck cock.
22
I think the boyfriend needs to mess around with another guy - sooner rather than later, either to get it out of his system or to realize that it is something he really wants (in a homo- or bi- sexual way). If LW marries him without his giving dudes a try, she is in for a world of hurt later when he cheats or leaves her for a man.

If the boyfriend finds out he only wants to occasionally mess around with a guy, then the three-way scenario is a good solution.
23
I'm with 20: There's nothing wrong with being unable to emotionally detach from sex, whether sex you're having or sex your romantic partner is having. It's even pretty normal. That's something to be honest about, not something to ignore because you don't want to be left and will do anything to keep someone around on any terms.

Some people do, some people find they can if they're very secure with a partner to whom it's important, but not everyone is going to work that way. There's nothing wrong with AFRAID giving it more thought, but there's nothing wrong with her concluding that an exclusive relationship is important to her.
24
You know what's missing from her letter? Any description of what their sex life is like.
25
Also, re -- " but I don't want to be hurt either." She should face the fact that life involves pain. We all hurt each other, sweetie. The key is finding a life that involves enough joy to make up for whatever pain life throws at you.
26
@9 - nicely said.

A lot of things seem really scary until you honestly answer for yourself "what's the worst that could happen?" You still may not want to do it, but it's always a bad idea to make decisions based on fear.
27
AFRAID, have you considered a strap on?
28
@15: I'm just sharing what I've learned from the she-devils I've paired off with.
29
seandr ftw

but seriously AFRAID you can take a bit of time to think about it per balderdash @9 but not too long. This is a deal-breaker if you can't get you head around it. Better to feel the pain now and move on.
30
I agree that it is a technical advantage for straight/bi couples. The Missing Out Threesome is of more potential interest for the non-bisexual partner in an opposite-sex couple than in a same-sex couple. And it would be nice, as Ms Erica notes, to have some idea of the state of the couple's relations.
31
@27, you seem to misunderstand "bi". A 100% straight guy (or gal) can enjoy being fucked in the ass. A bi (or gay) guy doesn't just want to be fucked in the ass - they are sexually attracted to guys (or a certain part of guys - the cock). Maybe they don't want anal penetration at all and like oral - on a REAL cock. There is variety for sure, but a strap-on isn't going to scratch that "I want to try my bi side" itch.
32
@12: Please cite your reference because I don't believe that to be the case. In fact I question the existence of truly "bi". There have been many men who self-identify as bi simply because they have not come to terms with being gay. I did so all throughout college. As society becomes more gay accepting, I wouldn't be surprised if bi numbers decrease.

@14: I understand your point, but I thought Savage Love advice was all about being brutally honest. Also, it was the woman not the man who wrote. In her case she needs to be cleansed of the unrealistic expectation that her bf could never have an emotional and sexual connection with a man. I would hate to see her jump into marriage or kids just to have her husband walk out ten years from now when he finally realizes what his sexual desires are.
33
@32, just because you question the existence of bi guys doesn't mean they don't exist. It's true, as Dan says, that some gays identify as bi at first, but bi guys exist. I'm married to one. He's into me (a female), romantically and sexually. He's also into occasionally fooling around with a guy.
34
I don't think that saying no to his request will necessarily drive a wedge between you or cause him to become resentful at all. Lots of people have desires and fantasies they don't act on and they somehow survive and even manage to have incredible sex lives, regardless.

I was bi-curious for years, never acted on it, and eventually kind of lost it altogether. But when I had stronger urges, I was able to sate them just fine through porn, occasionally going to strip clubs, and sex dreams. I'd suggest some of that for him and let him decide whether he can live with it. If not, do you really want to be with someone who values a blow job over a relationship with you?
35
I'm with 11 on this. And I'll add a red flag: "he is very confused right now" because confusion is the hallmark of a closeted partner. Whether they are honestly confused as many married, self-closeted lesbians are, or using "confused" as part of their cover story (more common with partnered, pre-out gay guys), I'd tell a friend who is told "confused" to run for the hills.

I also agree with 24 - there's no description of "Our sex life is great for both of us.", just more red flag stuff like, "I think he is a beautiful person and I want him to be happy, no matter what that means". Closet cases consciously or unconsciously seek out doormats like this who will let them slide on their lack of attraction for their partner and on their desire for some serious extracurricular activities. This early in the relationship, they both ought to be as thrilled about each other as she is about him including, especially, their sexual attraction and satisfaction in each other.

Does he begs to eat her pussy? Is his dick hard as he does so? That would be one piece of hard (or soft) evidence of where things stand.

I believe in the existence of male bisexuals - I know a few (a very few) but they tend to be more willing to partner with one gender or the other than this guy is. All the red flags add up to "bi now, gay later" like it so often is.

Also, telling her at 2-1/2 years?!? That ain't the behavior of a self-accepting (or honest) bi guy. That's closet-case bullshit: he's either going to get her to dump him so he doesn't have to feel guilty for pulling the trigger. Or he gets her to surrunder her hopes of a monogamous relationship and gets his hall pass while she withers away to a shell of her former self as his attentions towards her predictably wane while she's home alone hearing about or fearing about the hot new boy toy of the month that he's bonking.
36
I am a bisexual woman who is partnered with a bisexual man.I think the love expressed by AFRAID is even more important that the sexual details.The love I have for my partner feeds my sexual desire for him to the point that EVERYTHING he does turns me on. In our many encounters with other men, women, and couples I have not bothered to try to find out where my erotic desire ends and my pleasure at seeing him sexually gratified begins. It is the fire that feeds itself. I would encourage AFRAID to let her love for her boyfriend quell her fears. Go on this adventure with him. My partner and I have long conversations about what works for us. We have friendships outside of our relationship, but no romances. We always play together and we always play safe. Be open to what you might feel in these encounters, but don't assume it will be jealousy. I have never had a moment of sexual jealousy with my partner... I love to see him with other women and men. The love, respect, trust, and open dialogue I have with him is what makes that possible. I think it is possible for AFRAID.
37
I don't understand why slog commentators, who don't know either of these people, take it upon themselves to address issues that weren't raised based on words that didn't appear in the original letter. Why not take AFRAID at her word, and her boyfriend at his to her?

So she didn't mention how great (or not) their sex life is--that wasn't the point of her letter. What does it matter as far as the circumstance/problem she's writing about is concerned? He wants to open up the relationship to have sex with other people--men, specifically--and she wants to stay monogamous.

Why do some people take it upon themselves that because they doubt the existence of bisexuality as real orientation, he must be gay and closeted, not bi. Again, not the reason she wrote in. AFRAID wants monogamy; she isn't wondering whether her boyfriend is actually gay rather than the bi he's claiming.

Lastly, I think these "tests" for heterosexuality, such as the one offered by DAVIDinKENAI @35, are both absurd and meaningless. A person's interest in a particular sex act is not a litmus test for hetero- or homosexuality. I have several straight female friends who are absolutely straight, because they are attracted to men and men only, and they don't particularly enjoy blow jobs. I have known men who are definitely straight, but eating pussy wasn't their favorite activity, and who, if they had been doing it for any length of time, lost their erections. They didn't want to have sex with men; they just preferred other acts than to give oral sex.

As #31 said in response to #27, sexual orientation is about who you are attracted to, not a particular sex act.
38
The unexplored bi- thing is probably the biggest driver here, and I do give him kudos for being upfront about it. But the "I wouldn't be jealous of you thing" sends off alarm bells for me in terms of his interest in monogamy overall. He can talk to you about the bi- thing and come across like a wounded soul, playing on your LGBT-friendliness. He's probably a lot more hesitant to talk about any desire for a pass to get it on with other women too. I've been in a similar situation, and to me there was a power dynamics thing about it that poisoned my relationship to some extent. Boiled down to my girlfriend was willing to lose the relationship to get what she wanted, even as a temporary pass. I was willing to suffer non-monogamy for a period of time to keep her. In retrospect I wish I had just made it a breakup at that point with the idea that she could look me up later if I was still available. Keeping up my relationship with her while she did this for several months put what is likely a permanent imbalance in our relationship. I'm not dinging those who are cool with letting their partner do this. I just know myself, and I wasn't cool with it. And I did it anyway, because I was afraid of being alone.
39
At the end of the day it doesn't matter if he is bisexual or not. It matters if he is monogamous or not. Would this even be an issue if he came home and said "I also like girls with tattoos, could I have sex with some now and then?"
40
Ugh, all you people calling him a closet case. He is in a committed loving relationship with a woman, so he is probably NOT gay. Stop denying the existence of bi men. We're here, we're somewhat queer, get used to it.
41
typos, typos, typos, dan -- where's your editor?
42
Sexual orientation isn't the same as having a type. If he needs both a woman and a man to be sexually satisfied than he needs both to be happy. There's no point in being in a relationship with someone who is sexually unsatisfied, that sucks for everyone involved. Monogamy shouldn't be more important than your happiness.