SL Letter of the Day: Profile & Courage

Comments

1
Aww, I was kinda looking forward to the profile link. Ah well, my two cents on this is try to find a local-ish poly community/meet-up group, WSID. I help run a group in Toronto and that's how I met my boyfriend who is in an open marriage arrangement.

- Mel
2
Hey WSID!



As a fellow poly-guy with lots of poly friends, I can assure you that your experience is totally typical. It’s going to take effort—lots of OKCupid and Stranger LustLab (way better than OKCupid!) messages—with a huge ignore rate. If you’ve had any dates at all in the short time you’ve been doing this, you rock. And your wife will always have no problem finding partners. But, if you take it slow and keep your expectations realistic, you’ll do just fine.



I totally disagree with Dan on one point, though: your wife is being a huge jerk, and needs to stop it immediately. There’s no excuse for leaving you home alone all the time, nor for dating that much if it makes you uncomfortable. She knows it, too, but may need you to calmly tell her.



Oh, and, Dan: swinging is different from poly. If these folks take out a couples Craigslist ad or join one of the swinging sites, they’re going to get lots of Eastsiders who want to come over and have sex and then leave. If they actually want relationships, of some nature, that takes more work.



Good luck!
3
I agree with commenter 1 about finding a local poly group. But I also think he and his wife should be making sure to make some time to have some quality dates together. If she has time and money to go out on dates, and he has time to be home and lonely, then they sound like they have the resources to make time to go out on dates together. Exploring new people can be lots of fun, but it shouldn't mean not having quality time together. And I didn't hear much mention of their cool dates with each other.
4
Hi this is the dude who sent the email- I just wanted to mention that my wife planned, and is taking me on, a surprise special date tonight. She gets major brownie points for that!
5
There seems to be a big difference in consideration between the two. She's doing what she's doing because he said it was okay.

She is being really inconsiderate, but that seems to be the default setting for people who have exceptionally considerate spouses. I've seen a number of couples where there's one overly considerate partner, and the other one appears to be a total asshole. I've noticed that when the asshole is informed that their actions are hurtful and the other partner would like them to stop, the asshole becomes more considerate.

Sometimes, partners are just inconsiderate pieces of shit, but sometimes, the "asshole" thinks their behavior is okay because their partner has given them no reason to believe otherwise.

Also, what a fortunate couple-- this is their big argument. wouldn't it be awesome if this was the worst thing going on in your life?
6
@nearng24
Absolutely right- she isn't trying to be a dick here. She's just enjoying what we both agreed upon- no rules have been broken.
That said, I am still pretty lonely at home. We've talked about it a few times but always in the context of what I can improve about what i am doing to maybe get some more attention, not ever in the context of holding her back because to be honest with you I am really enjoying that she's having such a great time. I love her so goddamn much and want her to enjoy this new experience in life, so handcuffing her isn't my intention, but I am not sure what the solution is going to be if I can't drum up any dates with likeminded cool people.

And for the record I am definitely looking for ongoing relationships- sex is great but I like there to be a connection there and an ongoing friendship. It just feels more satisfying that way. This can be a single woman, a couple, whatever.

7
So glad to hear that your wife is taking you out on a date! That is the way to solve this: for you not to be lonely because you're getting enough attention from her, for her to scale her dating to something that fits in with the rest of her life, which includes you. As a happy poly person myself, while I vehemently argue that love is infinite, time sure as hell is not.

In addition to you continuing to look for partners, I suggest that you ramp up your platonic friendship stuff. "Hang out with the guys" or do other social social stuff with friends on days your wife is on a date a great way to not be lonely. Are there any activities or groups of friends of yours that your wife is really not into? Say, if you happened to like ice skating, and she didn't. So you go ice skating, while she goes on a date. Bonus: platonic activities and things you simply don't share with your wife are really awesome in of themselves, and getting out and doing them can be crazy fun.
9
God, that whole thing about the profile is such a cock tease. You should totally post a link here if you end up talking to your wife about this and asking if that'd be okay. Or at least a picture.

Also, to add to #7, those platonic activities might give you more opportunity to find women you're interested in.
10
I agree with 7, and am glad she's taking you on a date. I was going to suggest, admittedly from the biased position of a functionally polyfidelitous person (not looking for any more partners, got all the boyfriends I want, thanks) that 'most nights a week' is a bit much to spend away from your main squeeze.

Not that there has to be a firm quota 52 weeks a year, but a baseline expectation is a good thing. Whether it's "we have one date night with each other each week, and one/two nights in, and/or one night out together with our friends"...or just 'neither of us is away one/two evenings in a row'...an expectation makes you feel more secure and cared for.
11
Larsadin, sort of warms my heart, to hear a young man speak with such care for his woman. Care for her happiness, her play.
Means all that hard work us older Feminists did with the Men
Back in the 60s- 70s has born good fruit.( and all those women before).
However, how you start off your new adventures is how it's going to play. If you are lonely now, how's it going to be in a few months time, if you still find it hard to connect.
Every nite out with other men? Not a good look. Your Marriage , you want it to be the central relationship? If so, you two have to make it that from the beginning. Like from now.
Set the routine in place . At least 3-4 nites together. Your relationship. Your connection. Together.
That's my suggestion.
12
The wife is not being inconsiderate, she's doing her and getting her needs met and doing what she wants to do.





If you're not getting your needs met that's your own fault. You are 100% responsible for meeting all your own needs your own self.





If you're having trouble finding dates that's your problem, not hers. This is a very common problem for poly men. It's likely to take years of sending out hundreds of messages online before you're going to get any takers.





You should try to develop a cuckolding fetish so that you can enjoy the dynamic that you have agreed and committed to and that your wife is enjoying.



13
@4: No offense, but is it at all possible that your age and or attractiveness standards are set a bit too high for what you are seeking? This may be especially true, given that men have a harder time, prima facie, in finding poly friends than do their female partners.
14
@larsadin: Have you considered joining a pre-agrarian tribe of hunter gatherers? From what I've heard, poly is a lot more fun and equitable in that social context.
15
@Auggiidoggie: If you're not getting your needs met that's your own fault. You are 100% responsible for meeting all your own needs your own self.

This is only true for robots. In human relationships, both partners actually have an investment in the other's happiness.
16
@15 No it is true for all responsible self-actualized human adults.

I might add to the letter-writer that he develop a sense of gratitude for the experiences he already got to have. It sounds like you had a good run, dude. You got to have that.

Just because that's in the past doesn't diminish its value.
17
@Auggiedoggie: self-actualized human adults.

You mean narcissists? Yes, true for them as well.
18
@9: Here, I uploaded a single: http://imgur.com/OvWC44I

@11: Thanks, that makes me feel a bit better, especially with some of the other comments on here...

@16: I hear you and I promise I am grateful- this isn't about the past, it's about how best to deal with the next 50 years of marriage. I am human and it's tough getting left behind with nobody to spend time with.



Anyway thanks for everyone's positive feedback, I'll try to man up and stop bitching about it.
19
Ouch, SeanDr. Though , I do agree. So tell me @16, you grow your own food too, collect your water etc.
We are interdependent, no? In love, also.
20
Lars, cute photo. Yes, straighten those shoulders and bring that girl into line( with keeping your marriage alive).
21
Here maybe this is easier. If anyone is interested in chatting offline you can email me at lars.adin83@gmail.com. I can send more pics if anyone is interested.
22
@ larsadin

I don't want to say something that sounds cruel, but I believe that you and your wife weren't on the same page of the dictionary when you decided to go poly. You're looking for secondary relationships, while she's apparently on a spree (hundreds of men lined up?) with fuck buddies every day of the week. Is she auditioning ALL of them until she finds the few with whom she could maintain secondary relationships while keeping the marriage with you alive?

I'd also be interested in knowing how old her "dates" are. Are they older? However, as you've indicated in your profile that you're looking for younger, attractive women, you're already reducing the pool of available women, and further filtering it when you're not looking for a primary partner ... someone a woman might otherwise choose to be her primary partner. Would you be willing to expand the age range up? [I personally didn't even think of wanting to be someone's secondary until I was in my late 30s.]

May I suggest a sit-down with your wife to better define where she's headed with her 24/7 pursuits and how they mesh (or don't) with your hitherto unfulfilled goals? Right now, she's having more of an "open" marriage rather than a "poly" one.
24
@ larsadin

Just took a look at your profile pic. Uh ... unless someone's really into an office setting (the workstations and monitors), it's not that exciting - even if you had 10 monitors in an enormous home office because you were a reclusive mogul).

How about having some action (or chillin') photos taken of you enjoying a hobby?
25
18



1 shave

2 suck in that gut and sign up for a gym membership

3 call Hair Club for Men

4 that shirt is a hideous colour for you. Carole Jackson; Color for Men



if your wife really is a 10 you are in for a world of heartache and disappointment


26
Well, lets consider the redundant language:



"It's generally much harder for married men to attract interested single women than it is for married women to attract interested single men."

This can be simplified to:

"It's harder for men to attract women than it is for women to attract men. "



To even suggest 'attracting' women is a bit misleading. If women were 'attracted' they would have to MOVE. The bottom line is that men want to have sex with women. And these days, most women's desire to be safe from rapey, assaultive, men trumps any want they might have.



OKC appears to have at a minimum two straight men for every straight or bi woman. Why should a woman sign up for OKC when the primary return is illiterate propositions from 25 year olds in backward baseball caps?
27
Poly for Dummies



1 people in love (True Love, Traditional Heterosexual Love; not 'love' in the snarky sarcastic cynical sense of 'Savage Love'...) have no desire for poly, in fact LITERALLY can not imagine being with someone else. It is biology. Humans are possessive and jealous where Love is concerned.

2 if you are just in a relationshit for a steady source of cheap sex, poly is fine. you will both get bored with each other and getting some on the side is fine.

3 if one of you is 1 and the other is 2 the one actually in love is in for a world of hurt. it (your relationshit) will end, and it won't end pretty. don't be stupid next time.

4 if you are 2 DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN. it is immoral and cruel to do so. period.
28
@24 My profile has a lot more interesting pictures. If you email me I'll send you a link. As for the age of the women I am looking for, 21-45 would be totally fine as long as they were fit and took care of themselves.

I think somehow in this comments thread I've turned into some sort of stuck up, picky asshole. I promise I am none of those things.
29
do you have kids?
30
larsadin, you're in a sellers' market--and you're a buyer. From what you've written I can see why you're having such a difficult time.
I think it's wonderful that you love your wife so much, I really do, but I doubt that expressing that love so heartfeltly is going to get much interest, and aside from that, you haven't really painted much of an interesting picture of yourself.

It's going to be hard to find a woman who's young and cute and willing to be your piece on the side when what you have to offer is loneliness because your wife is out being the belle of the ball. Something about your tone, especially when you condescend to allow women up to as old as 45 as long as they're young-enough looking: "As for the age of the women I am looking for, 21-45 would be totally fine as long as they were fit and took care of themselves." is off-putting.

If this is the kind of tone that comes through in your profile, you might want to consider modifying it.
31
BTW we do not have kids.
33
I'd like to see your OkCupid profile. Just curious.
34
You've got my email address.
35
@28 I'm just seconding that "as long as they were fit and took care of themselves" is off-putting. It's either a very limiting standard or a rather condescending one, depending on how the reader interprets it. It definitely comes across as, I will judge you based on your weight. Which even people who are thin will often be turned off by. But it's possible you don't say anything about that in your profile, in which case it's not as much of an issue. Your photo is fine, but it could be better. The smile looks, to me, like you trying to smile for the camera. If you have any friends who can take decent pictures and capture some photos of you being genuinely happy, you'd probably come across better. I'm not the best judge of looks, but I don't think your looks are holding you back, but it's always good to present yourself as best as possible. Genuine happiness looks better on nearly everyone (sometimes you catch someone at just the wrong time and you can get some really goofy facial expressions, but a few truly happy photos to go through and you can probably find one that shows you in your best light). I find it easiest to get such photos in small gatherings where you're actually having a good time with one person taking photos, but the people not really paying attention to that person.

Anyhow, I don't think you're doing anything especially wrong. It's just there aren't that many women looking for a secondary relationship. But they are out there, and maybe there is someone compatible near you that you will find.
36
@larsadin: Just to expand on @Helenka's comments...

The nice-guy office look will win you a girlfriend, but it's not going to put other women in the mood to fuck. It's the bad boys who make women's pussies wet.

Instead of sitting home alone, go to a gym and get jacked. (There are women at the gym, btw.) Go to your local Gay-Mart and buy some clothes - tight t-shirts, wife-beater tanks, leather-daddy vest, crazy pants that are too much too tight, etc. Find your inner bad-ass. Then find an alternative scene and put yourself out there.

Oh, and remember, if they ask, you're not in an open relationship. Instead, you're a man of appetites who lives in the moment, always have been, and your wife knew what she was getting into when she married you.
37
Well this has been fun. Thanks everyone.
38
I see two issues: (1) your wife is out most nights with other guys, and (2) you're lonely. That may be fine for a short time, but in the long run I agree with Dan that this will damage your marriage.

You might want to renegotiate your arrangement. Like, you both need to spend XX nights a month at home together and allowed XX nights out with others. That may put some limits on her, but not unreasonably. In the long run, you need to spend at least some time together keeping your relationship strong, or the relationship will wither.

You sound like a very considerate guy, allowing your wife a lot of freedom to explore. That's great. But there's a difference between being super-considerate, and being a doormat. Right now it sounds like you are moving awfully close to being a doormat. You don't need to end your wife's freedom, but you might want to reign it in just a little, so you both get your needs met.
39
not hard to find him. I googled it; it was instant

So: it says no where in your profile that you are poly, just in an open relationship. A bit different...if you are truly looking for poly, you should say that. You're adorable. Love the tattoos. As a single woman, I can say that the fact that you're married doesn't stand out, and if I was chatting with you, it might feel a little misleading when brought up. Should maybe be a bit more prominent...my immediate gut feeling.
40
nowhere...sorry
41
@39 (and 40) I just removed a big block about how I was in an open marriage because I got some feedback that it made my profile shitty. I don't really know what to put now.
Basically I don't know what I am doing but definitely doing something wrong.
42
hmm, tough call. I'm just going on my initial reaction.I know Dan said maybe don't put it out there, and since you recently erased the open part, see how it goes.
Also, seeking only single women, not so cool if you aren't single yourself. You could try to change it if you are open to other coupled/poly females. Might open up some more options.
43
@42: Oh shit good catch on the single women thing, that wasn't intentional! I have corrected that mistake.
44
@42: Feel free to shoot me an email at the gmail address above or on OKC
45
Lars, I didn't see you at all as stuck up. A little out of your depth maybe.. It's sorta true what SeanDr says, it's the bad boys who get pussies wet . With a qualifier . Bad Boys who have a good heart.
You have a good heart. The Bad Boy bit comes, when you own your masculine energy.
You really do need to curb your wife's activities, if you want the marriage. Just be clear and strong.
46
You are definitely a cutie, @ larsadin. That is not the problem. Just sayin.
48
I think Dr Sean wins this round over Ms Lava, whom he completely took in by getting her to agree that Mr Din should don a completely false personality to lure in an unsuspecting woman and then only spring his true self on her once she is well and truly hooked. This seems a counterpart to the more mainstream practice of a woman's pretending to be Aphrodite while single and then showing her true Artemis after the wedding.

I also wish to cross-examine Ms Lava's assertion that Masculine Energy necessarily contains and reveals a Bad Boy. It is possible that such an idea may inevitably be true for straight men, about whom I am not at all expert, but, if so, kindly indicate in future.

I'll disagree with Mr Savage's assessment of acceptable manipulation - his proposed course of conduct juggles with Informed Consent a bit too much. Yes, this sort of line does not infrequently get lucky, but the harm done when it goes wrong cancels out multiple successes.

Assessing Mr Din, he gets big positive points for generosity of spirit. There are also two mandatory deductions for his intention to Man Up (LMB!) and for objectifying women, including his wife, by rating them numerically, a practice suitable only to chess players.
49
@18 - Holy crap, you're cute! I was imagining some guy who had let himself go and was in denial about it. If I were a woman, I'd be all over that.



I wish you and your wife the very best. This is new to both of you and there are bound to be some bumps in the road, but it sounds like you love each other and can make this work if you figure out a routine that works for both of you.
50
I am a woman, in my 30's, and until about a year ago, did a lot of online dating. One of my absolute pet peeves was when a guy would wait until after we'd met to come clean about being in another relationship. It's fair to assume the default setting for the average online dater is "single"--it was incredibly demoralizing for me to meet and like someone, then find out (and this happened repeatedly) they were not looking for a primary partner (much less, a "one and only"). I beg of you: please, please don't recommend that people hide their true status until after someone has invested more than half an hour getting to know you.
51
larsadin - how about Ashley Madison? I hear a lot of the women are fake or professionals, but I'm guessing there are real profiles on there and it would be a plus that you're in an open LTR.
52
Larsadin, if you're still reading: if you're really looking for poly relationships as opposed to a bunch of dating, you might try going to poly meetups. Don't approach it assuming you're going to find ladies to date the first time, but making friends in the poly community (if you're in a big town, you might even find age-limited clubs or meetups, which might be good) is a good first step to finding partners. It also might give you a feel for what other communities in your city are full of poly people (depending on the interests people at the meetups share) and if you are into any of those things, then you can go there to make friends and meet people.

I stand by my statement at 10, I think you need a baseline of time with your wife: but if she is out a lot, then you can use that time to network, and make new friends as well as potentially find lovers.
53
seandr @36 "if they ask, you're not in an open relationship. Instead, you're a man of appetites who lives in the moment, always have been, and your wife knew what she was getting into when she married you."

I love this. And agree with it as a practical matter.

My husband has had much better luck since he started saying "oh, we have an understanding" rather than going on about how in love we are and how grateful he is that his lovely wife lets him have sex with other people. But I think seandr's line is even better.
54
@51 in our experience, most people on Ashley Madison are cheating on their spouses; they want another cheater, who is invested in being discreet as much as they are.

In the days when I wanted sex with strangers on the spur of the moment, without dealing with flakes, I appreciated Adult Friend Finder.
55
Personally, if you want to date around, I always feel joining a like minded group, (hiking, biking, swimming, art etc) should be done as well.

You also need to put your energy into something instead trying to score with dates, basically score by playing activities. Women will be much more open with a relationship if you showed trust, which OK Cupid to Tindr cannot do.

Much like any investment, diversified your risk, instead of hoping all your risks at one investment at Ok Cupid or other sights pay off..
56
Omg whatever you do don't listen to the wannabe PUAs on this thread.
57
I'm a bisexual woman who's been poly for years, and I wanted to contradict what Seandr said. Bad boys do it for SOME women, but by no means all of us; personally, I absolutely adore good boys. My husband is the nicest man I know, and my longest-standing crush on a fictional character is on Mr. Spock of Star Trek, because he's so smart, so ethical, and so loyal. So there's no need for you to fake being a bad boy; there are lots of us out here who love good guys!

(I'm not hitting on you; I'm only looking for a girlfriend at the moment, and I'm out of both your age range and your fitness range, anyway.)
58
I'm chiming in late, but holy crap larsadin, you're a hottie! And judging from this exchange, sweet and nice to boot. If there were any justice in the world, the world would be all over that, and I hope things swing in the right direction. I'm wondering if the fact that your wedding ring is in one of your profile photos might be limiting responses from otherwise-interested women.

In the meantime, a photo of you kissing that dude wouldn't be unwelcome . . .
59
Well at this point I think my profile is pretty much exposed, so here's a direct link:
https://www.okcupid.com/profile/larsadin

I've been tweaking the profile a bit so if it seems off in any way it's probably because I am just floundering around trying to figure out wtf to do about it- there's about 20 suggestions on this page alone.

I am still deciding if it's even worth the constant rejection to keep trying to meet someone (online or offline, I've tried both) or if I should just give up and accept some of the more cruel suggestions on this page of simply dealing with the fact that I'm relegated to a lonely spot.
60


Are there poly communities in your area? If so, find one and go with the wife to some (gender balanced) play parties. Even at these parties it will still be easier for your wife to hook up than it is for you just because she's a woman and women are almost always the gatekeepers of heterosex. BUT - you will be able to meet many women who are all open to poly relationships in many different forms. That should be enough to break you out of your slump.



Also since you are on OkCupid you should also try Tinder. I'm not into online dating at all, but I hear great things.
61
Shit Lars; you are a 31 yr old man, not time for that talk now.
What does your wife say, when you say you are lonely? Does she hear you? Is the marriage important to her? It's time to be upfront and real with this woman.
Or yes, just sit at home and be a lonely boy, forever. Gee, that sounds like fun.
62
Maybe time to go talk with a therapist. Strengthen your self esteem. Help you create boundaries, that are good for you as well as your wife.
Opening a marriage is supposed to enhance the marriage, I imagine. You, my friend, are not being enhanced by this story, at all.
63
@59: You should keep trying to meet up with people, but if I were you, I wouldn't devote too much time to it. Right now, I think you're devoting too much time and energy to it, and your lack of returns on that investment is really getting you down. Don't message more than 3-5 women on OKCupid a week. The stuff about finding other poly people is probably the best advice, because there are relatively few single women out there who are really down for being someone's secondary. You might want to try doing some other kinds of activities.



As for your wife, you don't necessarily need to cut down on her extracurricular activities right this instant, but you do need to put her on notice that you'll need her to do so at some point. If you've only been doing it for a couple months, she may be going through a "slutty phase" where she's just marveling at the sheer bounty of booty. She'll probably tire of it of her own accord, but she'll cut down sooner if you let her know that you're lonely when she's out most nights in the week.
64
On my case now, Venn, eh? Didn't know this all was a competition. Me taken in by SeanDr? Never. He's a cheeky boy who speaks his truth. Some of which, I agree with.
I'm a heterosexual woman, hence, when I talk of men, invariably , I'll be talking of them as a heterosexual woman.
I assume though, that gay men enjoy each other's masculine energy? I may be wrong.
65
@35, There's nothing wrong with the way Larsdin said "as long as they're fit and take care of themselves." Fit people will not be insulted by that, they most likely are looking for the same thing. People who aren't fit might be annoyed, but he just saved them the trouble of sending an email and getting rejected one-on-one. You can't get around attraction.. facts are facts, ma'am, and it's okay to state them. And hey, it's not like he said "no fatties." Which is what a-holes do.

There's also nothing wrong with his pic, he's gorgeous, the setting makes him human. He's already got other photos we're not privy to on his profile, this was just to show us what he's working with.

@Larsdin, Dan says your profile is fine, which means you must have used a little humor in there. You're obviously intelligent, which combined with a sense of humor is very sexy.Show that in your profile and you're gravy. To quote Jemaine Clement, "You got it goin on!"
66
Lars,

Your wife's massive horndog response to opening things up suggests all is not well. Her emotional and/or physical attraction to you is obviously weak. Whose idea was going open? really now, who brought it up? probably her. you should start working from the assumption that she has moved on and plan your life accordingly.
67
Listen up, Mr Unregistered nasty person.
Each man is capable of finding their inner bad boy. And it can sit quite comfortably with the inner good man. In fact, if they don't go tog, you're just left with a thug. Bit like you, really.
68
And just to clarify, Venn.
To me, bad boy energy is when a man , sits comfortably in his male energy. You know , a little forceful, owns his strength. Owns his power. Stands up for his truth.
Can't see that's just a straight man thing at all.
And I don't think Lars should pretend anything. Rather, I suggest he connect with the power he has , the power of his masculine principle.
69
That is a fairly good profile. And I approve of the photo used in it more - you do look more genuinely happy in it. The only question I'd have about it is the "mostly monogamous". I'm not sure what the OKC options are, but if you're looking for an ongoing secondary partner, which sounds like something you're interested in, then I wouldn't call that "mostly monogamous", and that label might scare away some people who would be willing to consider something more serious. But, on the whole, good profile.

I also agree with going to poly meet-ups, especially with your wife. For people looking for honest poly partners, it will be very reassuring for them to see you as a couple. While non-poly people do usually prefer men who are cheating on their partners to people in honest non-exclusive relationships, poly people tend to much prefer knowing that it's all honest with every relevant party aware. So, within a poly setting, it will be an advantage for people to be sure your wife is okay with you being involved with other people. It also gives you better odds of getting involved with someone who will be honest with you.
70
Also, women have a harder time as they get older, but your odds will probably only get better if you date women your age. So try to be generous as she enjoys this moment in the sun. These things shift over time.
71
@venn:Mr Din should don a completely false personality to lure in an unsuspecting woman

Oh, I don't think I'm being quite so scheming as that. What I had in mind is more of a genuine transformation, or perhaps an awakening of something that's gone dormant.
72
LW, if you're still reading, a different perspective--

You are super handsome. Like, really really handsome. Great smile, seem like a nice guy, etc.

And when I thought, would I hook up with this guy? I thought, oh jeez, I'm not sure I want the ego blow of being the less pretty person in the bed. Especially if you, LW, are accustomed to seeing naked a 28-year-old woman who is a 10.

I'm 42 and fit, but I'd feel more comfortable with a middle-aged guy with a bit of a potbelly. I don't want anyone's reaction to seeing me naked to be disappointment.

Just a thought!
73
Milkshake: I am not sure what to do with that feedback =(

I am sure you're gorgeous and 42 is totally kosher with me!
74
"It's a little manipulative but I don't think it rises to the level of dishonest assholery—not if the disclose comes soon after meeting and definitely before sex"



UGH. Yes, it DOES. We've been over this one! I would be walk-out-of-the-restaurant-immediately pissed off if anyone tried this on me. It's so... arrogant, so entitled, the idea that I shouldn't get to make an informed choice because I don't know my own mind -- I just THINK I'm looking for a potential partner, but Mr Married Guy is so great all of that will go right out of my pretty little head as soon as I've been tricked into spending time with him!



Larsadin, PLEASE put your status back on your profile if you're going to use it this way, or if you won't, please *only* go for women who are looking for short term fun! Arranging dates can be time consuming, stressful and expensive while of course most dates won't come to anything anyway, I really, really don't want my time wasted by someone who was absolutely never offering anything I was interested in and *knew* it.
75
Green Lizard (and others): I actually agree on this one- I gave it some thought and the idea of springing this on somebody isn't my style. I'll make it clear but not overpowering in my profile that I'm married and will make sure anyone I meet in person is aware of it before they meet me.
76
Struggling a bit here with the definition of 'inconsiderate' being a "conscious" disregard for the other person. Inconsiderate just means you didn't think about the other person or their experience. Saying it's "conscious" means you actually did think about them, and came to the conclusion that no, you really don't give a fuck about their experience or their feelings. I disagree with that, because you can be totally inconsiderate without meaning to.



That said, it takes a special kind of obtuse to get your husband into a swap situation, allow him to get voted off the island, and keep fucking the turds who did that while leaving him at home.



Yup, seriously inconsiderate.
77
Nothing to add here really, other than I bet yours is now one of the most heavily viewed profiles on ok cupids site, probably ever! Good luck, ignore the unregistered troll. Dudes a middle aged virgin who somehow thinks he's qualified to be offering up relationship advice.
78
So where's the wife? Is she aware that she is on Slog? I would like to hear from her -- hope she writes in.
79
More hair-splitting, perhaps, but I also wouldn't characterize it as cutting down on your wife's extracurriculars as it is getting her to realize she has a supposedly primary relationship that she nonetheless is putting almost no energy into.

Sorry, but there are only 24 hours in a day and no getting around that. If you are spending almost all of your time, energy, attention outside the relationship, you are necessarily spending almost none of your time, energy and attention INSIDE the relationship -- you know, your _primary_, this person you supposedly love more than anyone else on the whole planet.

That's called taking them for granted, and like Dan says, if it goes on long enough it damages the relationship.

That date you mentioned up in the single digit comments is a good start, but there needs to be more of them, and at regular intervals.
80
Dr Sean - I was complimenting you. I fully believe you're entirely that scheming, especially as your past statements indicate your distaste for Artemis posing as Aphrodite. And, given that you've talked Ms Erica into admiring a very antifeminist position as well, you are really on fire in this thread.
81
Ms Lava - Please don't put up some idea of Masculine Power as a counterpart to your idea of Feminine Beauty. Most women aren't beautiful; most men aren't powerful. Some of both don't have the potential.

To clarify, if that's your personal taste, I have no quarrel with it until you start generalizing. If you want to generalize about straight men and are scrupulous about making it clear that you speak only about straight qualities, then i shall at least acknowledge that it isn't my place to contradict you. I shall spare you any explanations of gay men's mutual enjoyments of their male energies, as it might give you an LMB.

We might actually not be too far apart practically speaking, but your terminology is offputting. What the flip is either "bad" or "boyish" about standing up for one's truth? Applying such adjectives in a gendred way to qualities that are well suited to people of any gender comes across as an attempt to keep males in a mental state of perpetual high school, which is when Bad Boys hit their peak. I could admire the efficacy of the tactic if it only concerned straight men; those in OS relationships have the right to order them however they please, and it's not my place to dictate. But people will insist on punishing gay men for the sins of straight men (or in some cases straight women).
82
Feedback from a couple, open/poly relationship for 4 years



Him - 40yr old, bi. I think you are getting a lot of valid feedback. I've struggled with the exact same thing, and asked my partner to limit her extracurriculars for my sanity. I have found that writing quality messages on okc, and tweaking your profile can help (you are a total stud, btw). Also, have patience, and do things that bring you happiness. Being your best self is the best way to attract people. Don't dwell on not getting a response, it will happen a lot. Do consider that it will only take one good, first connection that turns into an ongoing relationship to transform your experience.



Her - 30yr old, bi. Tamping down the dating options since we didn't come from a level playing field was totally cool for me. In fact, I let him date first for a couple years before I started, because there was so much learning curve and confidence to develop - it's totally different than dating as a single guy. For what it's worth, if I came across a profile like yours in my city, I'd even message you first :)
83
Jesus Venn, it has nothing to do with beauty, ok? It's an essence quality, I'm talking about.
Look, obviously we just ain't on the same page, the same book.. Hell, the same country.
84
67 whatever you say...


you girls don't patronize him like he is a child. he knows The Troll is right.


who suggested opening it up? her, right?
85
So pedantic. No room for poetry or mystery in your world view.
Yes, sorry- generalizations, not good. And given the multiple variations of people, perhaps not at all helpful.
A bad boy is just a bad boy. Not entirely predictable, for a woman.
Not a shithead,( although some bad boys are that, those sort of men to me are just thugs), but not containable.
I really don't want to explain to you concepts of the feminine and masculine principles.
Lars, as I'm back here, again. What about writing something like;" Poly Friendly. "Then the implication is made, without too much explanation.

86
85 what?
87
What what @ 86? I was talking to Venn.
And why did you have to play the devils advocate here? This young man showed his vulnerability and you just stomped on it.
No one was " humouring" him. Just encouraging him to take the reins in his story.
88
87

this young man made some terrible choices. guaranteed to destroy his marriage. the best he can hope for is to learn from and not repeat the mistakes. idiotic advice about tweeking his profile ignores the 800 pound gorilla that he is playing a fool's game that he can only lose. pretending otherwise is cruel and sadistic.
89
As a newly poly woman, I'm going to throw in my two cents in favor of 1. setting some agreements on how much time you get with your wife (although @63 sure, could be a future thing rather than a right-now thing) and 2. meet poly people in person. If nothing else, poly men who have been doing this for longer than you are likely to be able to give you really good, personalized advice over time. Also, I love your smile in that picture, very cute.
90
@88; things can be turned around. If he acts quickly and decisively.
Agree; not a wise move to open the marriage and then see no clear boundaries have been set. Hopefully, this marriage will be ok.
91
Midwestkittie is single and would date a married guy. Just saying. Midwestkittie is pretty cute, too, but doesn't photograph well.
92
I just want to put an opinion to contradict Ms. LavaGirl and say that there are plenty of people who are totally turned on by non bad boys. I'm a gay guy, so I'm not what you're looking for, but I have pretty high standards, and I would be more than happy to fuck OR date you from that profile. I'm not saying it's going to be easy for you...most people on OKCupid are looking for singles, not married men, and women are less likely to be down with fucking or dating a married guy than men are. But to suggest that you're not likely to get interest because you don't give off a bad boy vibe is ridiculous. Maybe LavaGirl wouldn't be interested, but I certainly would, and I know there are women out there who would agree with me.
93
The profile reads like you are only looking for someone to hook up with.

And I always vote for putting status right up front. Mention you are poly. Include a link to your wife's profile if she has one. Just don't go on and on about it.

..And I really have no idea how to meet vanilla poly women. In the kink community it's common to be poly, and mostnominally poly groups I've been to are mostly full of the same people I see at kink events.
94
The profile reads like you are only looking for someone to hook up with.

And I always vote for putting status right up front. Mention you are poly. Include a link to your wife's profile if she has one. Just don't go on and on about it.

..And I really have no idea how to meet vanilla poly women. In the kink community it's common to be poly, and mostnominally poly groups I've been to are mostly full of the same people I see at kink events.
95
I think the profile is great except for the injured arm photo that reads make-shirt not makeshift, also I loved the first photo you shared!


96
FWIW Dan was right, you are a total babe, and if you were local to me and gay/bi I'd totally hit that, no question. Or I'd try, anyway.
97
Ms Lava - For the sake of Evonne Goolagong, who has long been my favourite Australian, I'll be content with a modest paraphrase of Mr Wilde and respond only that any woman (or man for that matter) who wishes for a "bad boy" deserves to get a real one.
98
90 hopefully so.
99
To refine my compliment to Dr Sean after some reflection, I think there's a difference between potential suppressio veri in Mr Erica's presenting that the Es "have an understanding" and the active suggestio falsi of Dr Sean's model that would lead Mr Din's potential dates to think that it's Mrs Din sitting lonely and miserable at home, or at the very least wishing her husband were more tame. As for a transformation, doesn't that sort of position work best for all parties involved when it's really just a well-executed pose, rather like a convincing role play?
100
As an OKC user..... Answer more questions, like A LOT more!
I have answered over 2000. I do not consider the percentage remotely valid unless I overlap 400+. (we are a 95% match 6% enemy rating but I only have 85 overlapping questions) I have found the best way to do that is to find a profile that looks interesting and answer ones they have that you have not. Also can give you something to talk about if you decide to contact them.

I am not sure what to say about your profile, except it is a bit thin to me. Just not enough YOU info. Seems rather generic. As a poly woman, I have no idea what you are looking for or if we would be a good match (although I am not the outdoorsy type, so likely not)....
But will agree with those above, totally cute!

Other info, check out the "more than two" website or book about poly.....
101
Mr. Vennominon, I don't understand your point. How is seandr's proposed verbiage "very antifeminist"? And what are you on about, with your suppressio veri and suggestio falsi (hiding the truth vs active lying)?

Mr. P isn't hiding the truth when he says we have an understanding; we do have an understanding. It's true that he doesn't bring me along to demonstrate that he's not lying, but to call that "hiding the truth" is a stretch.

And I don't see why you claim seandr is proposing anyone lie. Larsadin is a man of appetites (as most men are), and his wife seems to have understood him when they get married (more than most wives do, I suspect).

We're just talking about tone here, not lying or hiding the truth. Presenting yourself as someone who likes sex and likes women and isn't afraid of anyone finding that out -- that's a positive thing, and should be appealing to many, especially compared with presenting yourself as "bored and lonely at home."
102
I would mention that your poly, and make clear that you are looking for a gf, not just to fuck someone in a sleazy motel.



This alone would give you a little bit of "bad boy" image mentioned above. Being poly, or open relationship is considered pretty kinky and sexually adventurous by many vanilla people.



I would also include a pic of you and the wife amongst your profile pics. Don't make it your profile pic, but throw it in near the back. This will do several things: first it will make clear that your wife is actually aware of your activities and your not jut some grease ball getting some on the down low without the wife knowing but saying youre in an "open relationship" so you don't look like an ass hole. But more importantly, it will make you look more sexually desirable, especially if your wife is very attractive, as you say.



If a sexy woman like your wife actually MARRIES you, there must be something to you. Also, there would be the very natural ego boost to the woman. She'll think "wow he could be spending the night with his gorgeous wife but instead he's with me.....*swooon*"



Also, it could attract other couples who are otherwise only interested in couples.



I def wouldn't go on and on about how much you love your wife. Something succinct and to the point. Something like "Rest assured that while my wife and I are in a stable and commited relationship, I am prepared to give any new relationship that may develop the proper time, care and attention that I deserves."



That should go a long way to reassuring any worries that your just looking to fuck and run.
103
Come on #99.......online dating almost inherently includes a bit of marketing to it. No one should be lying or hiding truths. But is it normal, ethical and appropriate to paint yourself in the most flattering light? Of course.

Even if we not ashamed of our flaws or otherwise unflattering descriptions of ourselves, that doesn't mean those things belong on your pro file.

Its basically a resume for dating. If you were putting your old job as a garbageman on your resume, would you say you were a garbageman that sorted bottles at the redemption depot? Or would you say you were a sanitation technician responsible for the proper implementation of the city's recycling program?
104
Wow. Lars is very attractive. I didn't even notice the picture's setting.

Hang in there, handsome. :)