Comments

1
Here is the part I don't understand. If the Legislature decides to increase funding for schools by raising sales taxes, and voters approve ST3, doesn't that mean a massive sales tax increase in the ST3 area? I hear arguments that the Legislature needs to approve funding for schools through income taxes or "closing loopholes." While I support a state income tax, that ain't never going to happen. And while there may be some loopholes to be closed those aren't going to fund schools.

2
Unconvincing.
I am voting "NO!"
3
Reuven Carlyle knows full well that a defeat of ST3 this November is not going to make it any more likely that the state will better fund public education. So the question arises, why is he coming out with this convoluted position that does nothing to help his own purported cause?

I've speculated that his true motives are something else, that he is just having the back of his own influential backers in his district who don't want high-capacity, high-speed mass transit coming to their backyards. Think Georgetown when the D.C. Metro was being built (opposition that area is now regretting). Think every group of NIMBYs that always comes out of woodwork when light rail is proposed for their neighborhood. I mean, come on, is it really just a coincidence that the most outspoken political critic of ST3 should represent the district that stands the most to benefit from it? And if that's the case, we all know, Carlyle can't come out with the real reasons he's agin' it; he knows that's a losing argument, that the affluent backs he has to scratch in his district are overwhelmingly outnumbered by the other voters his district who are pro-transit.

That's still my most likely explanation. On the other hand, it could be a fit of pique and pride, a publicity stunt in support of his more favored cause, which he thinks he won't be held accountable for politically. My sense, though, is that Carlyle is a little more rational than than.
4
This episode is reminiscent to me of then-King County Executive Ron Sims coming out against ST2 in 2008.

From The Seattle Times at the time:
Although they voted to put the plan before voters, two members of the 18-person board oppose it: King County Executive Ron Sims, and Councilmember Pete von Reichbauer, R-Federal Way. Sims tried Thursday to add another $120 million to the package to subsidize a rapid increase in express-bus trips by King County Metro, but was turned down. A former Sound Transit board chairman, Sims now favors bus-rapid transit over light rail in some corridors.

“We just told tens of thousands of Metro riders that for the next eight years, they’re either going to be standing, or watching buses pass them by,” Sims said.


Thank goodness we didn't listen to Ron Sims's shortsightedness at the time, or his attempt at getting the voters to be shortsighted. I still can't help but think that Sims had his own ulterior motive at the time, just as I think Carlyle does now. Or maybe this was just another elected official letting a fit of pique and pride get in the way of seeing the big picture.
5
@1

Did you even read the article?

@2

You were voting 'No' regardless. Your efforts are completely transparent. Lulz.
6
@5
You have no idea what I am saying so don't even try.
7
"...This historic investment delivers thousands of jobs...."

Temporary constuction work

"...efficient modes of connectivity...."

Only if you live near a station and you are going primarily North/South, Bellevue nothwithstanding.

"...land for affordable housing and mixed-use development near transit...."

That is the upzones that have proven anything but affordable, in fact more expensive

"...and relief on our congested roads for those who sit in traffic or breathe its caustic fumes...."

Totally false. Anyone who claims this will relieve congestion has been breathing those funes too long.
This is an alterative at best for some, not a solution to anything really. And too much for too little with a ridiculously long ultra regressive financial burden and timeline, during which nothing is guaranteed, because these are Plans, not actual projects.

Stick to to things you actually have some knowledge of before you try to critique someone who has direct experience with it.
8
Oh please.

Just expire all tax deductions from business taxes for vehicle depreciation for commercial trucks and cars that don't meet 2016 EPA mpg and emissions standards.

It's not a road or gas tax.

There's your McCleary funding.
9
@5 I did read the article. No one knows how the Legislature will address McCleary. We don't know who the Governor will be, nor do we know the composition of the Legislature. Let's assume a best case scenario that the Dems win control of both Houses and the Inslee wins again. Even in that scenario we don't know how they will fund education. As it stands there are three options: property taxes, sales taxes, and B&O taxes. It won't be income taxes.

I'm still voting for ST3, but I don't think it is unfair to ask hard questions about the potential for property taxes in King County to be among the highest in the country.
10
@9: "We don't know who the Governor will be . . ."

Oh, please.
11
Other states have an income tax. Other states politically to the right of Washington have an income tax. It's not magic unicorns. It's hard work, and you'd have to structure a real assurance to voters that you won't just turn around and them pay both. But the change could in fact benefit most voters, and McCleary, and leave local property taxes to be used for local improvements.
12
Oh, please.

Carlyle's expression of frustration is muddled, but the source of his gut hesitation is clear: $54 billion is a gargantuan fuckload of money, and any expenditure so whopping should be properly vetted for efficacy, in light of the fact that money does not grow on trees.

The pro-ST3 camp's facile insistence that trains are an inherent good, no matter where they go, does not remotely qualify as an argument, much less a vetted one.
13
As the saying goes, "politics is the art of 'the possible.'" There are three possible taxes that will be raised: property, B&O, and sales. It won't be property, for that draws almost as big a "hue and cry" as mere mention of an income tax. Ask Bill Gates Sr. about the latter. It won't be B&O, not from a legislature that's significantly Republican (as in enough to prevent an income tax of any kind from becoming law). Yes, other states governed by Rs have income taxes, but how did they get theirs? Perhaps it was passed when Ds were in charge and the politicians got dependent on it, much like what happens with gambling taxes and red light and school zone camera fines. Lynnwood is an example of the latter. Thus far, this state's R legislators have largely stymied "closing loopholes." My guess is that "the solution" will be to extend sales taxes to other, non-food areas, the primary candidate being services. The beauty of sales taxes, from a politician's viewpoint, is that they're transparent to most voters, whereas property and particularly income taxes are not, for they get an accumulation of their taxes regularly, with property taxes 2x/year and income taxes with each paycheck. In contrast, sales taxes are a little bit here and a little bit there.
@7 (Nemo) nails it. This package is not a panacea. For most of it, we'll be dead or, at best retired, by the time most of these projects are completed. With the highest-rising home prices in the nation, the chances are we won't live where we do now. Here's a test: do you live in the same place as you did in 1991? All this for a cost of, see st3tax.com, which will give you an idea for the first 25 years. It does not account for inflation, which will lift the amount of sales taxes paid towards this plan, and appreciation, which lifts the amounts paid for vehicle tabs and property taxes. The averages that Sound Transit's public relations machine is dealing are $360,000 for property, a price that's virtually extinct from at least central Seattle through Lynnwood to the north and east to the foothills, and $5333 for a vehicle, another rarity in the most-populous areas.
Former County Executive was onto something with BRT making the most sense for lower-density areas. It's a great "test bed" to see if there's demand for light rail or not. A great example of where BRT demand is proven is Ballard/downtown Seattle. Two examples where it's not: the Paine Field excursion to Everett, where transit has been cut over the last two decades and where going there tacks on at least another 5 years of waiting and $1 billion in costs, and Kirkland/Issaquah, where demand is questionable (while Issaquah/Renton, which was ignored, is far more worthy). But, politicians made these decisions, and they are usually guided by how best to get re-elected (campaign contributions) and are virtually never held accountable for poor decisions, as they're long gone/retired when that's found out, Yet, so many are willing to trust them on this huge leap of faith where there's so little in it for today's commuters.
14
As the saying goes, "politics is the art of 'the possible.'" There are three possible taxes that will be raised: property, B&O, and sales. It won't be property, for that draws almost as big a "hue and cry" as mere mention of an income tax. Ask Bill Gates Sr. about the latter. It won't be B&O, not from a legislature that's significantly Republican (as in enough to prevent an income tax of any kind from becoming law). Yes, other states governed by Rs have income taxes, but how did they get theirs? Perhaps it was passed when Ds were in charge and the politicians got dependent on it, much like what happens with gambling taxes and red light and school zone camera fines. Lynnwood is an example of the latter. Thus far, this state's R legislators have largely stymied "closing loopholes." My guess is that "the solution" will be to extend sales taxes to other, non-food areas, the primary candidate being services. The beauty of sales taxes, from a politician's viewpoint, is that they're transparent to most voters, whereas property and particularly income taxes are not, for they get an accumulation of their taxes regularly, with property taxes 2x/year and income taxes with each paycheck. In contrast, sales taxes are a little bit here and a little bit there.
@7 (Nemo) nails it. This package is not a panacea. For most of it, we'll be dead or, at best retired, by the time most of these projects are completed. With the highest-rising home prices in the nation, the chances are we won't live where we do now. Here's a test: do you live in the same place as you did in 1991? All this for a cost of, see st3tax.com, which will give you an idea for the first 25 years. It does not account for inflation, which will lift the amount of sales taxes paid towards this plan, and appreciation, which lifts the amounts paid for vehicle tabs and property taxes. The averages that Sound Transit's public relations machine is dealing are $360,000 for property, a price that's virtually extinct from at least central Seattle through Lynnwood to the north and east to the foothills, and $5333 for a vehicle, another rarity in the most-populous areas.
Former County Executive was onto something with BRT making the most sense for lower-density areas. It's a great "test bed" to see if there's demand for light rail or not. A great example of where BRT demand is proven is Ballard/downtown Seattle. Two examples where it's not: the Paine Field excursion to Everett, where transit has been cut over the last two decades and where going there tacks on at least another 5 years of waiting and $1 billion in costs, and Kirkland/Issaquah, where demand is questionable (while Issaquah/Renton, which was ignored, is far more worthy). But, politicians made these decisions, and they are usually guided by how best to get re-elected (campaign contributions) and are virtually never held accountable for poor decisions, as they're long gone/retired when that's found out, Yet, so many are willing to trust them on this huge leap of faith where there's so little in it for today's commuters.

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