Comments

1
Or, perhaps the stoplight timers should be better synchronized so that people don't get stuck in the middle of an intersection through multiple light changes?
2
There should be a higher bar for what make a Slog post than road rage.
3
@1 So there's some trick to street light timing that will eliminate grid lock?

Somebody should let them know about that over in New York.
4
@1:

I drive through here twice a day, and it's really more about the physical configuration of the intersection and it's inherent limitations: it's basically a five-way intersection with lots of cars coming from three different directions trying to get in line for a one-lane freeway on ramp, all of which create obstructions, both for pedestrians, as well as for cross traffic. I don't know that there's a way to better synchronize the lights more than what they are already; it's really more a matter of drivers anticipating the light changes and not creeping into the intersection before there is actually space available to make the necessary turns while keeping the cross lanes and pedestrian crossings clear. And with the planned bus-only lanes on Denny, I expect the congestion, along with its associated challenges, is only going to get worse.
5
Last summer at this very location a cop yelled at me for lane-splitting on my bike, which is totally legal.
6
Charles, come on. You should try driving through that clusterfuck.

The key in this town is: don't go in the intersection unless you know you can clear it. The (unsignalled) left onto Denny, the (unsignalled) next left to get to the I-5 offramp, the traffic piling up from the Stewart street off-ramp. It's ridiculous. Pedestrians crossing at those 2 left turns can keep ANY cars from getting through.

Turn it into a 4-way crossing intersection like 1st & Pike or 1st & University. Cars go, then people go.

7
It is the prisoners dilemma. If one car driver cooperates by waiting until the intersection is clear, cars traveling crosswise may defect by not waiting and get stuck in the intersection. So a driver who cooperates may have to wait multiple light cycles.

I think it would help if the traffic laws were enforced at least periodically.
8
Believe me this intersection is also extremely aggravating to those of us who actually know how to drive cars as well. At rush hour idiots trying to get onto I-5 constantly block Denny, even though there is almost always an open lane to their right. Of course they don't want to go into the open lane because then they will have to go past the I-5 ramp turn around and come back. Tough shit. If you were too stupid to not notice that traffic was backed up when you pulled into the intersection a second before the light turned red, this is your problem not the problem of everyone coming up Denny. Fine these fuckers. $1000 each would be just about right.
9
Make that tiny strip of Yale ave that goes to the freeway one way! The reason why there are so many cars piling into the intersection is because they want to turn left onto Yale ave, but since it is a two way street they can't take a right on red. It would also fix some of the denny traffic because you could have two lanes of traffic head to the freeway from denny rather than one.
10
@7 you're wrong here. this is, like, one of the few intersections where the dilemma doesn't apply. there are no right-turns to cut in line (on red) here. the stewart cars don't wait for it to clear and get stuck blocking denny. it's pretty bad. before the light cycle changed (only a few months ago) it was the left-turners from denny to stewart who would do the same thing.

and, yeah, the drivers will not go right to clear the intersection.
11
Oh screw this shit. The cars in the intersection are not preventing pedestrian from getting across the street, the are upsetting Charles' metrotranist fee fees.

We're all in this together Chuck.
12
That intersection has multiple problems; and some of the solutions above would appear to help. Cars there are also fucking other cars --and fully loaded buses-- because they get stuck hanging tail out into Denny while in the left two lanes of Stewart. Which then further fucks Denny all the way past Westlake.

Given the persistence, predictability & scale of the problem, I'm surprised that SPD hasn't assigned traffic cops like they have to the Minor-Howell intersection merely two blocks away.]

Still, one answer is incumbent upon drivers, and I quote the Young Ones:
"Never enter a box intersection until your exit is clear!"

To which I add: And if you get stuck blocking the perpendicular lane PULL OUT OF TRAFFIC AND GET OUT OF THE WAY. If you're on Stewart, you can simply drive one block further, then take a left on Minor, and a lighted left on to Howell to get directly to the I-5 S on-ramp. Christ people!
13
@10 It was in fact worse before they changed the light. It has improved somewhat. I think just about everyone has been caught not paying attention and ended up stranded in an intersection at some point but the real infuriating things at this particular intersection are: A. Most of these people likely go through there all the time, and yet are too clueless for it to register that once the traffic stops on the south side it is not going anywhere before the light changes. B. Most of the time there are two lanes clear to the right of the turn lane for the ramp and either again we have people that are too clueless to realize this or more likely they refuse to go into the right hand lane because they would then have to take a roundabout way to get to I-5.
14
Louis C.K. describes it perfectly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBnkDPj2…
15
that intersection is the worst. Without fail some asshat tries to run the yellow light and ends up cutting off traffic. It happens on every light. its faster for me to walk home than wait for the #8 to come.
16
@9:

That's only a partial solution, since the on ramp itself is only one lane (hence the reason it's so congested in the first place), and you would still have the problem of merging down the two lanes of traffic. Widening the ramp to two lanes (or adding an HOV lane) would help, but that would also mean adjusting the I-5 access to accommodate two entering lanes, which I presume hasn't happened because of how it would negatively impact all the freeway traffic moving to the right to exit at Union & James streets.
17
I'm surprised to say I agree with Mudede on this one. No one checks for pedestrians before turning left onto Denny at this intersection either. It's a mess
18
Could SPD possibly care less about enforcing traffic violations like blocking the intersection, driving your car in the bus lanes, or parking in bike lanes?

I wonder what decade the last ticket for blocking an intersection was given out in.
19
@13 The reason it improved is that Stewart drivers at least have a fighting chance at not blocking the intersection. They can see whether the light at Yale is going to change before they enter the intersection. The left turners from Denny can't see the light and, when their light is green but the Yale light is red, they have no idea.

Chaz, the pedestrians actually have it the easiest. They can walk through cars easily and quickly. In fact, I've seen it where there's a car blocking the Demny intersection when the Yale light changes, but pedestrians crossing prevent that car from clearing it when Stewart clears.
20
#18: exactly. On MLK Day I encountered three cars parked directly in the bike lane on Dexter, not "sort of creeping into it" but entirely within the bike lane at a point where there is no street parking. And about five vehicles that were either stopped in the bike lane waiting for cars to pull out of parking places (which is not an excuse to sit in a bike lane) or veering into it dangerously close to my bike. I've never seen a cop do a thing about bike lane encroachment.
21
@11: actually, they are. More importantly, they're putting pedestrians in danger.

Let's say you're in a wheelchair. How are you going to squeeze through that gap?

Let's say you use a walker, or you're walkin with your 2 year old. It's already slow for you to get across the street. The lights are often timed for a healthy, fast pace. Maybe you can clear the intersection in time by walking in a straight line, but now you have to zig-zag around cars and squeeze between them. Then the light turns green and you're still in the middle of the street.

Let's say you're squeezing between two cars, and the one in front decides to back up a little bit. Maybe there's another pedestrian walking front of that car, and the driver feels bad so they give them more room. Now you're fucked.

Let's say you're walking between two cars in one lane, and the other lane finally starts moving. The driver who was in the intersection moves forward, but because you were in between two cars they don't see you and hit you.

Let's say you need to walk around a car, and you're no longer technically in the crosswalk. Congratulations, you're now at fault if you get hit by a car (or a bike)! Pedestrians have the right-of-way only when they're in the crosswalk. If a car is blocking the crosswalk, and you go around it, you are no longer afforded legal protection.

I could go on, but you get the idea. Turning vehicles, loss of visibility, distractions, unexpected and confusing behavior.. There are many reasons why it's dangerous (and illegal) for drivers to block crosswalks.
22
You got feet... walk around. :)
23
May I just add that in addition to the "don't block the box" campaign (getting people not to pull into an intersection until they know they can clear it) We need a "mind the gap" campaign? There is nothing more frustrating to see a gap of two or three cars on a busy street, usually because the driver is looking at their phone instead of pulling up behind the car in front of them. I have found myself stuck in an intersection more than once because of this, and it's aggravating.

And I would like to donate that "all walk" signal at the intersection of Beacon Avenue and 15th Ave S. to a worthy charity. I hate, hate, hate that intersection to begin with, and all that stupid walk signal does is hold up traffic even more. It made sense when the library was there, but the library's not there anymore.

Beacon Hill needs a major traffic overhaul to move cars and people through it much more efficiently. Particularly now that they've announce a new 325 unit development with 23 parking spaces. That is going to be insane.

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