Feb 21, 2015 bu commented on Savage Love Letter of the Day: Come On, Snoopy.
I agree with nocutename, it's a different kind of flirtation, and one that makes taking the next step of doing something more much easier. You probably can't take any next step with porn (unless you somehow know or can find who you're looking at), but you *can* take a next step with a texting person. It's a slippery slope and he's already on it, because he's going against the "this is cheating" rule they hammered out.

As a thought experiment, ask why porn is ok, but texting is not. Because there is another live human involved? (Then barista flirting should be off limits, too.) Is it the reciprocity involved that bugs you? Not just that he wants something else, like to look at someone, but that someone wants him back? That can be threatening- so is that what you're reacting to? Really, then that boils down to trust- and hey, we know you have a trust thing, you're snooping- and it says you don't trust what he's ultimately saying, that he loves you and wouldn't leave you for someone else. Of course you already can't trust what he's saying on this texting point, he told you he'd stop and he didn't. So really is it you're afraid he will leave?

SIt with that. Is it a fear of abandonment, or are you jealous that someone else is more important, or as important, or any sort of important and you want to be the only one to him?

Because he hasn't left you. But, he has lied, and someone else is some kind of important to him. And, you snooped, but he continued to deceive you when you found out. And now /you've/ lied- you promised you wouldn't do it any more, and you did. So you're both even on transgressions and lying. Lovely.

So to me, it's not the flirting that's in and of itself a problem (except that you said it was wrong, I know), to me, for me, it's the lying. For both of you. If you'll either one of you lie about this, it makes any next lie easier, too. I'd either put it all out on the table and renegotiate- change this thing that you've agreed on (no texting is flirting) to be allowed (texting is not flirting) and be ok (texting is now allowed), and then he doesn't have to lie, and you don't have to snoop, you know he's doing it. This means you are allowing that another person can be important to him and that it's not necessarily a threat to you, and it doesn't necessarily mean he'll leave you. He can still get what he is from that relationship- it's obviously been important enough for him to lie over it. Why does he need it? Probably more what Dan suggested, he wants to be wanted.

Or agree to do the DADT thing and if he doesn't parade it past you, you agree to not go looking for it, although you don't seem inclined or suited to be able to do this, because you also have a jealous thing. If that's the case, or you don't want to renegotiate, you can take Dan's advice, to ignore it, but for another reason- accept it as one of the lubricating lies long term relationships need- or you can call it a deal breaker and break up. The thing is, you both broke the deal. He lied and you lied. He cheated under your rules, and you snooped. But this choice says your relationship is important enough to take this into account, that he is doing something you don't want, but that you can live with it in order to stay together. Can you? Is it?

Or here's another thing you could try- talk about what he's texting, and text each other instead. Maybe that would reignite something. Or maybe removing the illicit thrill will make it not as important to him, and then you have learned something else- it's the sneaking he likes, not as much the person. I'd like to know if that were the case, either way.

Something is going on here, otherwise there wouldn't be all the lies to protect it. I'd want to suss out exactly what it is, and see if it's the person that's a true threat, or the thrill he feels he needs badly enough to risk his relationship with you. Because you have all the power here- you can decide whether you can live with it or not, and then allow it to happen, or leave. You cannot make him stop, sorry, you tried and it didn't work. Only he can decide to. If he does, great, but be clear on this- you cannot make him. It sounds like leaving would be uncomfortable- you don't have to work full time now, etc- but you aren't saying you're trapped, or being coerced, or have kids to be concerned about, so leaving isn't impossible. Don't talk yourself out of your options. If you choose to stay, don't tell yourself you didn't have a choice. If you can't stand it, leave. Your choice. He's been wrong, and you've been wrong. Deciding who's "wronger" is just beside the point now. Fix it, change it, accept it, or end it.

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Jan 7, 2015 bu commented on Savage Love.
@44

I think it's more that you make comments that indicate you don't have the same basic knowledge or cultural experiences a lot of people here have and/or work on accumulating to be able to have conversations with each other. As you point out, you do not live here, and people have gone out of their way to explain things to you to include you, but you don't always appear to take the opportunity to educate yourself first, when a google search, or checking out Urban Dictionary, would eliminate a lot of your confusion. I use both frequently to keep up in several different forums that I'm not native to either the subject or culture. I love coming here and being able to trust a lot of people who have academic credentials I don't, for example. Still use google to verify or dig deeper. But I look at this as a place to learn, ymmv.

As for the age test, a lot of us are your age and that's not a problem. And wildly varying opinions are courted here daily.

I have some family that spends more time closer to you than me (NZ) and I can't keep up without a google device nearby when they discuss a lot of things more pertinent to their environment and lives than mine, ostensibly amongst themselves but with me around. I don't take offense, I look at it as a way to foster connection. And I have no idea about their geography, but I love maps, so that's fun for me even if I can't keep up with local politics :)

I usually lurk here, you're a much more prolific poster than I am. But watching for years (and googling!) gives me a better sense of a lot of this stuff, and I often find most of my questions or points get asked or made if I sit back and watch. Or, you know, it's the internet- there will be a New Thing tomorrow.
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Jan 4, 2015 bu commented on Savage Love.
I think Emily Nagoski has a lot of good insight to the difference between men's and women's desire and arousal over at her blog thedirtynormal.com. She's a health and wellness educator at Smith, and has a new book, Come As You Are, due out soon. I found out about her here, Dan has visited with her before. I find her really refreshing and reassuring, and she lives to make science attainable for everyone.

And nocutename, I'd like to thank you for always teaching me something and being so very patient with everyone. I could never manage it. I'd buy you a beverage of your choice and love to hang with you if we'd ever cross paths :)
Sep 9, 2014 bu commented on SL Letter of the Day: Forever Grateful.
It is in quotes- she says it feels selfish and indulgent, he is saying it is not.
Apr 22, 2013 bu commented on Reese Witherspoon Pulls a Lindsay Lohan.
In the South it's correct to be Miss First Name your whole life, and a preferred title to Aunt for many women who only want to use that with relatives, not friends' children.
Mar 12, 2013 bu commented on SL Letter of the Day: The Missing Condom.
*@86, sorry
Mar 12, 2013 bu commented on SL Letter of the Day: The Missing Condom.
Thank you, 80. You saved me a lot of typing. You win the thread.
Jan 26, 2013 bu commented on SL Letter of the Day: Pop a Cap.
@25

This.

I can't explain it much better, but when man looks at you like he's /taking/ something from you, as opposed to appreciating what he sees, like say, a pretty flower (which can still be problematic), it is scary. And because we live in a world where the answer to sexual violence is that women are constantly told to police their looks and actions, rather than to tell (mostly) men to STOP BEING VIOLENT towards women, well, we're waaay closer to Schrodinger's rapist that I like to be. Yes, over a look.
Mar 8, 2012 bu commented on SL Letter of the Day: Minor Dispute.
@ 120

I have a friend who grew up on a kibbutz. When he suggested to a younger adult me that sex was just a fun thing, not so emotionally laden as I in my post pregnancy hormone haze was insisting it was, I was furious. Two decades and a lot of learning have shown me that you know, he kinda had a point. Funny thing, he said to me recently that two decades and a lot of learning taught him the same thing. So yeah, it may be a boy/girl thing, or it may be an age thing, but it's definitely a Thing.

So now I have teenagers. I talk to a lot of their friends, boys and girls. It seems foolish to pretend that they are not sexual beings. To arm them with information and safe places to talk and go to for help if they need it and birth control they'll use seems to be the right thing to me. Ultimately I can't tell them what to do, and I didn't start talking to them at any magic age- there were discussions from the time we could discuss. More than anything, I want them to all come to it with a sense of wonder and good intentions. To be good to each other, and never do or ask someone to do something that isn't comfortable and right for them. And to know that those things can and will change. That right there puts them light years ahead of where I was at their ages. But the talks when they were smaller were much more literal, because that's where they were developmentally.

Sex is a lot of things to a lot of people. It seems to be more to more people at sometimes and less with different people and and and- christ, I don't know.

And if I don't know, I can't see that it's easy for a CHILD to get it either. Yeah, that kinda naughty-but-feels-good-too feeling? Sure, you want more of that. But when you're older and you get a sense that maybe it wasn't quite right, being touched that way- it's usually, if it's not the physical ramifications- it hurt, or you were physically harmed- it's the confusing emotional ramifications that do you in.

Ideally, I want to approach sex with an equal. I want nothing to be at stake but mutual pleasure. I don't want to be excessively physically uncomfortable- I don't even want to be chatteringly chilly or raging hot, call me a wimp- I don't want to be afraid, of who I'm with or what I'm doing, and if I don't quite know what I'm about to do, I'd like to minimize any uncertainty about the other person's intent.

So, maybe-because I'm noodling this out on a Thursday evening- it's about trust, and a belief that I'm not going to be harmed? No matter what physically happens?

And I can't see getting there with someone not understanding that, too. And not being in an unequal position relative to me, either.

And I'm a big ol' girl and all, but "merely physical" interactions carry their own set of feelings and emotions. You know, besides the "real ones" for people I care about or the "hormonally induced ones" that all the stuff cascading through my body is trying to trick me into feeling.

How can a child- a CHILD- sort through that, with an ADULT? I just can't see it. The power imbalance, the experience imbalance- aside from my culturally and evolutionarily conditioned "ick" response- it's all a "no" for me.

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Mar 8, 2012 bu commented on SL Letter of the Day: Minor Dispute.
Hey, I thought "parts" was all inclusive. People, adults and children, have several. Insertable and receptive. Big is bigger than little. I said, girls, men, and little people, thought that would cover MOST sex acts. Yes, I neglected the (statistically few) women who abuse children.

What is sex to me? if the right person breathed in my ear, I'd consider that sexy. We don't have room for this. I was not specific because I figured I'd leave something out. Let's just say, all you and I can think of between us.

Back down. Don't attack me for something I didn't say. Sorry I wasn't more specific so you could launch into me accurately. I also, if you read it all, alluded to a slippery slope argument to the SIZE issue. The EMOTIONAL one- hell, grown adults seem to be all over the board. Seems only right that we let kids be you know, kids, before they get drug into all the other issues surrounding sex.

We are supposed to protect children. They are not adults, and are not equal to adults. Until that power imbalance changes, it is not right to take advantage of them in any way.
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