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Tim Horton
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Jun 25 Tim Horton commented on Savage Love.
If you thought LW#1 was a woman, clearly you skipped the awesome Joe Newton cartoon.
Jun 24 Tim Horton commented on SL Letter of the Day: Dominance/Coincidence.
@23 and others: I think men get a bad rap/generalization for being selfish lovers and using women as masterbation devices. Most men really want to please women. Trust me, the male ego is tied up in their sexual prowess, i.e. being known as the best lover their female partner ever had. These guys are putting on the performace they think their women want.

I think the confusion comes from men misinterpreting what women want: men desiring women so badly that it unleases a raw animalistic passion and a "must take her now" approach. Men see this played out with the porn technique. After all, porn is directed in a way that appeals to men, so it should be no surprise porn style sex is pleasurable to men.

Combine this with the fact the man is by and large controlling the tempo with both positioning and thrusting, you get a scenario that works well for him and he THINKS is working well for her. The LW describes these men as funny, well-rounded and interesting out of the bedroom. No indication the LW told these men they were doing it wrong.

Of course, women speaking up for their own sexual preference isn't entirely a new problem. After all, women's romance novels focus on male lead characters who effortlessly know how to "dominate" and satisfy the female lead without ever having the unromantic conversation of what actually turns the woman on. See e.g. the wild success of 50 Shades

Jun 24 Tim Horton commented on SL Letter of the Day: Dominance/Coincidence.
Seems to be confusion/overlap in the use of dominant in the general sense vs. Dom in the BDSM sense. These men probably told you they were dominant because they figured out that women, in general, like men who are sexually confident/assertive in the bedroom. They use dominant as a catch-all (FWIW, in my single days almost all women I dated said something to the same degree: they liked it a bit rough, to be thrown around etc. I may well attract this type, but I digress).

It seems like these lousy lovers watch too much porn - thus the rapid position changes, the unemotional pumping, barking of lewd instruction and the fact they mirrored each other. These guys probably aren't really dominant, they probably said that because they thought you wanted to hear it, and thought it would turn you on enough to get you into bed quicker. Just speak up for yourself sexually and see if you can't turn these great funny men but faux doms into attentive lovers/boyfriends.
Jun 19 Tim Horton commented on Savage Love.
@301 - LavaGirl, I actually read the comments for the first little while. Found it very eye opening. I had not really appreciated how women's daily interactions can be affected by the threat of sexual violence. (I had never heard of either yesallwomen or notallmen. These themes don't appear in the major publications I read). It's good for me to hear so I can appreciate how the little comments might lead to condoning larger societal issues. Sort of like how the guys would throw around the term fag as a general insult; even though it's generally not used in the homophobic context, I now see how it gives cover to the homophobes to think their bigoted opinions are worthy of general acceptance.

While I agree with some that the litigous environment saps the welcome flirtation from the workplace that can add much needed respite humanity from the drudgery of the daily grind (for both men and women) it's a worthy tradeoff if it makes the workplace a less hostile environment for women as a whole. Leaving that aside, someone over on the other side wisely noted that it's not that hard to figure out when your flirtations are appreciated and when there not, i.e. as a mid-30s man I tend to assume my flirtations aren't welcome directed at women in their 20s or younger.

FWIW, I come to the Stranger for the same reasons I read both the WSJ, National Review and Mother Jones. It's good to hear POVs outside your daily inner circle. Reading Savage over the years has brought me from an indifferent but sympathetic opinion in favor of traditional marriage to an outspoken supporter of marriage equality. We all need to listen first before speaking (that is also marketing 101, if you want some business unsolicited business advice).

My point about mansplaining, etc. is simply that it is usually my cue to realize that the discussion is about to go from people exchanging thoughtful ideas to entrenched idealogues determined to shout each other down (seandr's decription of outrage porn was fitting). Sort of like trying to debate the merits of circumcision; all the nuance and science goes out the window when the posts yelling "MUTILATION" come out....
Jun 19 Tim Horton commented on Savage Love.
@298 Ven: I am so with you. I checked back on this week's post and I aint going near that one with a 7 inch pole, pun intended (forgive me).

Gender war email comment threads are as pointless as an ashtray on a motorcycle. As soon as I see "mansplaining, victimhood, MRA or feminist theory" I know I will learn virtually nothing from the exchange. See you next week.
Jun 18 Tim Horton commented on Savage Love.
@74 (I swear I will not derail this thread)....

In varying degrees my situation is like that you described and there are very few women on the same rungs I am at now. There were lots of women on the rungs with me when I started in finance and consulting. At these corporate type gigs, the entry level salaries were fixed so we all made the same cash.

There are probably 100 different reasons why so few women make it to the top rungs and surely sexism is a factor. But from what I see, issues 1-90 are related to motherhood.

Where I work time is money and generally the more time you put in (if put in efficiently) the more clients you have and the more money you make for the company and, accordingly, for you. Careers usually take off in years 7-20 which is around when people hit their early 30s, i.e. the early childhood years for young professionals. And it's at this crucial professional development stage that almost all of my female colleagues who were every bit, if not more talented than I am, dropped down or dropped out to have kids.

Now combine that with the fact that most of the best and brightest women are married to the best and brightest men (I think Charles Murray has a book about this). Financially, many of the women don't need the money because their husbands do well. I was lamenting to my partner that the bright female analysist I recently hired will be gone in 5 years right around the time her husband finishes his ortho fellowship.

FWIW, this is a big problem for companies too. I “overpay” (i.e. looking strictly at productions numbers on a spreadsheet) the females in our company because I need them here over men. Partly because Forutne 500s require diversity from their partners and vendors.

The solution seems to be that women need a “wife” to take care of the domestic so they can focus on penultimate careers (assuming they want that), but I see very few women marrying "down" that would allow that.
Jun 18 Tim Horton commented on Savage Love.
@43, I had the same reaction. I was surprised Dan didn't just refer to Sex at Dawn, let POLY know that humans, in general are non-monogamous, and the question of whether he is poly isn't able to be determined by the letter as written.

POLY may be poly, depending on what the definition of poly is. I assumed it primarily includes people who want multiple sexual/romantic relationships for themselves AND their partners. POLY may feel that way but his letter merely indicated he 1) has a desire to sleep with other women despite being in a relationship, and 2) has cheated. Almost all men fit category 1. Somewhere between 30-50% of people fit category 2, depending on what stats you believe. By those standards most people are poly which would render poly indentity meaningless.

To answer his question about "coming out" to his friends and family-how does that go? "Hey pal/dad/co-worker: need to let you know I feel the need to sleep around even though I am in a committed relationship. Please respect my identity."

To be sure POLY needs to let his potential romantic partners know. Good on him for realizing this and choosing to be honest up front with his future romantic prospects.
Jun 17 Tim Horton commented on Savage Love.
@231 - LavaGirl, no offense taken. I can see why my post @172 struck a nerve. It reeks of white male privilege entitled to pussy, but that wasn't really the point of what I was trying to say (although it does amuse me in an insensitive way to hear people like @217 claim My Husband and His Friends Never talk/think/act like this. Which may well be true for her but I promise you it would surprirse women how often I see the nice guy trying his ass off to cheat, with or without success, when he is away from home). You admitted @214 that men with families who cheat boil you second only to mid-east genocide. I feel similarly irrational about the NRA and the Montreal Canadiens.

I agree with what you said @231. I bought a small business for Mrs. Horton to run to give her something to stimulate the mind while the kids are in school (she has a doctorate, as many of the "over-educated" SAHM do in my 'hood).

Anyway, it's great to read all of the different perspectives here. I really do not feel the connection between cheating and doing harm to my kids (it would seem like failing to save for college would be far more harmful). Perhaps I, like a lot of men, can completely compartmentalize the physical from the emotional. Reading how others perceive cheating and the damage it can potentially cause to the spouse, and ergo the family, is an important consideration.

I am sure if we met we would get along famously. Or at least bond over foreign policy and a pint of Molson.
Jun 16 Tim Horton commented on Savage Love.
@177 - Mrs. Horton definitely gets revved up from outside the marriage sexual attention. As a SAHM, not much action except from the bagboy at the Trader Joes. And it seems that the lack of sexual attention she receives now (as compared to her 20s) when she is on "girls night out" only lowers the sexual confidence required to fire up the libido.

Would a woman who feels unsexy as a mother of young children really want to start with the on-line profiles, etc? I assume she is serious when she says she really wants quiet at the end of the day. Perhaps your suggestions are better suited to when the kids are older than 7?

Also, it strikes me that men risk a lot when they encourage their partners to get hit on by other men. I don't have a jealous streak, so I am fine by it - it's well worth the reward. But in my experience, women seem to prefer men react with some non-threatening possessiveness when other men are flirting with them.
Jun 16 Tim Horton commented on Savage Love.
@173 - please email me at timhorton14@yahoo.com. Your perspective here is invaluable (as it is with other posters). I would love to know what you think about smart affairs, what makes some more tolerable than others, etc.

While my email is out there, if anyone lives in or knows San Fran and can recommend the best restaurants for top-notch client entertainment, I have several business trips there this year and need to impress. Timbits on me. Thanks!


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