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Pumped-Up Junk

October 12, 2011

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I'm a college freshman. I thought that college would be the place to come out, but the sad fact is that college hasn't changed anything. I'm still unable to admit my sexuality to my friends, teammates, classmates, and hallmates. I have thought about joining the LGBT organizations, but those guys are too "out" for me. Not that there's any problem with that. I just don't think that being gay is anyone else's business unless I want them to know. The hardest part is seeing other freshmen go out to parties, hook up, and date when I don't have the opportunity to do so. I've resorted to going on Craigslist, but my encounters have been weird. What should I do?

Closeted Undergrad

You're not required to disclose who you're going out with, CU, or the gender of the folks you would like to go out with. But keeping your sexual orientation a secret indefinitely—not your sexual interests (which you can keep to yourself), but your sexual orientation—will ultimately warp your psyche and your life.

Think about it from the other side: What would the straight guys on your team have to do in order to hide their straightness from you? They could never mention their girlfriends, go out on dates, or hook up with someone they met at a party. They would have to hide their porn and be careful not to check out girls in public. They could never get engaged, get married, or have kids. They might be able to have furtive, secretive, and shame-driven sexual encounters with other closeted heterosexuals they met online or in places where closeted straight people gathered to have anonymous sex, but finding love—true and lasting love—would be extremely difficult.

It wouldn't be impossible—some gay people managed to find lasting love back in the bad old days—but it would be difficult. And the sneaking around and hiding and lying would ultimately warp their psyches and their lives.

If you don't want to get warped, CU, you're going to have to come out. And once you're out, you don't have to hang out with gay people with whom you don't click, and you don't have to be gay the way, say, the LGBT groupers on your campus are gay. Remember: Gay men who are out at your age (18?) tend to be a bit gayer than the average gay dude. They're out in part because they can't be in. And God bless 'em and more power to 'em and the gay rights/liberation movement would never have gotten off the ground without 'em. But since you can pass, CU, you've had the option of waiting.

You have, of course, the option of never coming out. But as you're discovering, CU, it's hard to date in the closet, and DL-enabling sites like CL and Grindr aren't going to deliver the kind of connections you want. So long as you're limited to quickly arranged hookups with guys you don't know, can't risk getting to know, and can't be seen with in public, all of your encounters are going to be weird. Not because all the guys on CL or Grindr are weird—there are good guys on both sites—but because you're trying to have a life and keep it secret, and that tends to attract weirdos without lives.

Look, CU, you're only 18. You've got time. But what you're going to realize, in not too much more time, is that dating and finding love—or even just sex—inside the closet is nearly impossible. You can remain in the closet and keep your business secret, but you won't have much of a life in there. And when you realize that, CU, you'll come out. First to a friend or two, then to your family, then to everyone. And once you're all the way out, you'll find that the guys you've been focusing on—the "too out" guys—aren't the only gay guys out there. Just some of the best.

I know it's hard. But you can do it. All it takes is opening your mouth and saying the words.


Last night, I was blowing a male friend. When I glanced up from "my work," I saw that he was texting someone. I didn't say anything and finished the job, but I was offended. Another friend says I should've mentioned it because he might have been taking a picture. At the very least, what he did was rude. Any insight from you?

When Blowing Blows

He was taking pictures or making a video and may have been e-mailing pics/vids to his buddies in real time—don't be an idiot, WBB—and you should've snatched that camera from his hand and stuffed it so far up his ass you could've sent yourself a picture of the roof of his mouth. Please cut this out and tape it to the mirror in your bathroom: Any girl who's uninhibited enough to blow a "friend" has to be uninhibited enough to blow up at that friend if she spots him taking sex pictures without her consent.


I'm a straight male, age 26. I've been with my girlfriend for seven years. We're lucky in that we have a group of friends who are into having sex with us. My question is, what is the proper etiquette for condom use between my girlfriend and me when others are present? We don't use condoms when we're alone, so we haven't been using condoms when we're in front of others. They are using them, and I use them if I have intercourse with another girl, so the risk for the two of us intuitively seems minimal. Is there anything we should be concerned about?

Group-Sex Rookie

If you and your girlfriend have been tested and you're "fluid bonded" (ugh! That term!) and you're not having sex in front of strangers at, say, a swingers club or party where someone might misinterpret your condom-free sex as a license to initiate condom-free sex with randoms to whom they are not fluid bonded—preventing these worst-case/biggest-idiot scenarios is why many organized swingers clubs require condoms-for-all during group/public parties—then I don't see why you and your girlfriend should have to use condoms with each other. So long as you're careful about always putting on a condom when you need one, you're both willing to assume the higher risks of acquiring one of the STIs that can be passed through skin-to-skin contact, and seeing you two go condom-free doesn't make your friends so insanely jealous that they can't get it up/on in your presence, then knock yourselves out.


This is in response to Messed-Up Junk. His junk sounds just like my junk! But my junk isn't messed up. I'm a transman—so a two-inch "micropenis" actually sounds pretty damn good! Anyway, I wanted to say this to MUJ: Don't let your junk stop you from hopping in bed with whomever you damn well please. I know lots of guys with junk like yours who get plenty of action from lots of fine ladies—and gents. As long as your junk gives you sexual pleasure and you are willing to pleasure your partner, there is much fun to be had. Yes, having a body that's different can be terrifying. Be honest and up-front, but don't let your head and your fear get in the way of hot sex.

Pumped-Up Junk

Thanks for sharing, PUJ.


Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.

mail@savagelove.net

 

Comments (121) RSS

Oldest First Unregistered On Registered On Add a comment
1
HOW ON EARTH DO YOU LOOK UP AND SEE SOMEONE TEXTING AND THEN FINISH THE BLOW JOB?!?!?!??!??? I wouldn't even do that if I was being paid. Sheesh.
Posted by bodhirungus on October 11, 2011 at 5:35 PM · Report this
2
@1 Second that!
Posted by sara on October 11, 2011 at 5:40 PM · Report this
3
See??? This is why I don't do dick!!
Posted by Tilting on October 11, 2011 at 6:02 PM · Report this
4
See?? This is why I don't do dick!!
Posted by Tilting on October 11, 2011 at 6:20 PM · Report this
5
All the other kids with their pumped up kicks...
Posted by Approaching 40 in LA on October 11, 2011 at 6:23 PM · Report this
6
Ommygod! My universes collide -- Dan Savage fosters the people!
Posted by BerlinFellow on October 11, 2011 at 6:38 PM · Report this
inotnrml 7
would have to agree with the first two comments she should at the very least said if your not enjoy this I can stop
Posted by inotnrml on October 11, 2011 at 6:40 PM · Report this
8
TOTALLY agree with Dan's advice to WWB and had the same reaction to the letter as @1. But I wonder why Dan assumes that WWB is female. Except that the letter writer has been socialized into such politeness that finishing the job is more appropriate than smacking that phone into the nearest wall or up the nearest body cavity on the way out the door.
Posted by nordica on October 11, 2011 at 6:43 PM · Report this
O my Captain 9
Great advice to WBB, Dan. I suspect this is a more prevalent problem than many a partner realizes.
Posted by O my Captain on October 11, 2011 at 6:46 PM · Report this
10
Ommygod!! My worlds collide! Dan Savage fosters the people!
Posted by BerlinFellow on October 11, 2011 at 6:52 PM · Report this
venomlash 11
@1: Word, as a straight man. Either he wasn't enjoying himself, and chose to catch up on some correspondence, or he was enjoying himself, and took a moment to send out pictures. (And frankly the second sounds more likely.) Either way, she should be offended and slap his dick out of her mouth.
Posted by venomlash on October 11, 2011 at 7:02 PM · Report this
Mrs. DePointe 12
Had to break up with my last boyfriend (in part) because he was so married to his Blackberry, he'd get up and answer it while I was going down on him. Excuse me but uh, this is kind of important. Cooling down here, no big deal... mkay, time for some Futurama. Leave me alone.

It's not cool even if he's not taping your blo-face. But he almost certainly was.
Posted by Mrs. DePointe on October 11, 2011 at 7:18 PM · Report this
ScienceNerd 13
I've never had group sex, although it's happened a lot in my mind. I have often wondered about GSR's question though... should the opportunity ever come up, now I KNOW!
Posted by ScienceNerd http://stanichium.tumblr.com/ on October 11, 2011 at 7:29 PM · Report this
14
GSR - make sure everyone changes condoms when they change orifices!
Posted by EricaP on October 11, 2011 at 7:38 PM · Report this
15
I love how Dan is icked out by the term "fluid bonded." So unlike him to get skeeved out over sexual language.

ps soooooooo happy the tech wasn't around when i was a wee little slut. no evidence! er, except what i just wrote.
jill
http://inbedwithmarriedwomen.blogspot.co…
Posted by inbed http://inbedwithmarriedwomen.blogspot.com on October 11, 2011 at 9:27 PM · Report this
16
Why gender the answer to WBB? I have been in equivalent situations and basically just carried on as WBB did, in basically the same spirit. How I ever picked up on so many behaviours without receiving massive socialization is a complete mystery.

And I was hoping that CU would have taken a page from DARE and written in again.
Posted by vennominon on October 11, 2011 at 10:45 PM · Report this
17
Dan, can you tell the Stranger that your RSS button is broken? Thanks.
Posted by AnnaZed on October 11, 2011 at 11:29 PM · Report this
18
@16-- "How I ever picked up on so many behaviours without receiving massive socialization is a complete mystery."

What the fuckaya talkin about?

Posted by portland scribe on October 12, 2011 at 12:25 AM · Report this
19 Comment Pulled (Spam) Comment Policy
sissoucat 20
@vennominon : before being in equivalent situations, and carrying on as WBB did, did you feel worthless in any way ? Had you been told, as a child, that you were somehow damaged goods, have you been abused in any way, physical or psychological ?

If you have - then mystery solved. Allowing oneself to be further treated like shit is a common consequence of having already been treated like shit, whether you were aware of it or not. Low self-esteem, I think it's called.
Posted by sissoucat on October 12, 2011 at 12:49 AM · Report this
21
Quick question: Why no private high schools with a homosexual bent?

I wen't to a reform-ish jewish private high school. Not only are smaller environments like that more inviting, they're also rooted in some kind of meaningful commonality.

It seems that there's so much support behind 'it's gets better,' and I'd love to see what would happen if funding went to creating safe, tangible, practical learning environment for kids who deserve to focus on what makes them unique v. different.

How hard would that be in a city like San Francisco, with plenty of teachers out of work?
Posted by iangng on October 12, 2011 at 2:00 AM · Report this
22
@ People who think Dan assumed WBB's gender: he probably edited out identifying/extended information which clearly indicated her femaleness.
Posted by sahara29 on October 12, 2011 at 3:04 AM · Report this
23
Here's something everyone is missing about WBB: the situation described is totally hot: Kicking back playing with your phone while your friend sucks your cock, not even bothered to give a shit. I know I'm not the only one with this kink, and it very much could be in play here. It seems as likely as the picture/videotaking to me for the reason that it's hard to mistake pictures for texting. (Of course if the guy was sending picture mail of the blowjob, that's a different matter altogether.)

The thing about it is that it's immensely disrespectful and unappreciative (that's the hot part). Because of this, no one should ever do such a thing to a partner without consent. The same remarks (and same basic turn-on) applies to distributing the pics.

Fortunately, this letter is probably pure fantasy. WBB just finished the blow job? I don't think so. WBB was just as likely as not sitting at his computer typing this email out with one hand.
Posted by arcticone on October 12, 2011 at 5:00 AM · Report this
24
@21 - Awesome idea . . . but just one city? We have many schools that are closed and are in the process of being re-purposed . . . I can envision something like this in several major urban centers . . . meets the peoples needs, keeps an established building in use and employees the unemployed.
Posted by Tilting on October 12, 2011 at 5:40 AM · Report this
Posted by SCalmlyW on October 12, 2011 at 5:54 AM · Report this
Eva Hopkins 26
@23 - no, I disagree. Not that there isn't a fantasy involving someone being bored & interested in their phone while getting done, but that that's what's going on w/ WBB. There's enough "my GF doesn't know I'm using my camera-phone" style porn out there that it's gotta come from somewhere. I'd assume that most ppl who don't wanna have their picture taken/actions recorded are now having that conversation pre-hookup. At least, I hope so.

To CU - it takes WAY more energy to be in the closet than out. You don't have to throw glitter everywhere you go, just casually, slowly, let people know you date dudes. The quality of people you connect with will skyrocket, & so will the quality of your life. It's just so much easier. Luck!

Posted by Eva Hopkins http://www.lunamusestudios.com on October 12, 2011 at 6:44 AM · Report this
Eva Hopkins 27
BTW, I'm noticing an increasing trend in folks using the SLOG comments section to promote their own blogs. Faux pas, no?
Posted by Eva Hopkins http://www.lunamusestudios.com on October 12, 2011 at 6:47 AM · Report this
28
I'm sure the young man was merely updating his Facebook status. Did you check Foursquare? "...in WBB's mouth."
Posted by portland scribe on October 12, 2011 at 7:07 AM · Report this
29
@16/20 - It's not primarily a question of self-worth. Of course, it would help if I posted when fully awake, but what struck me at the time was how, given that I had extremely little parental guidance beyond BE STRAIGHT (but at least, to give them their due, they just concentrated a reasonable amount of parenting effort all in that one area rather than spreading it about), it struck me as curious that I managed to turn myself out to be so ladylike. I don't mind, though I'll admit that sometimes it would be amusing to get to play the Patriarchy card.
Posted by vennominon on October 12, 2011 at 7:18 AM · Report this
30
@21: I thought I read about a GLBT-only highschool some in the US (California?) a few years back. Too lazy to Google at the moment.
Posted by Bobber on October 12, 2011 at 7:49 AM · Report this
31
The possibility of pics didn't occur to WBB until her friend suggested it later. My guess as to the reason WBB continued is that she likes something about the power imbalance between the two of them (and he does too, as @23 suggests). She likes the fact that he just calls her up and she trots over to blow him, with no reciprocation. Him texting, in her mind, was a further step along those lines. ('I'm just an object to him, not a person.') Not sure why she decided to tell her other friend about the scene, though.
Posted by EricaP on October 12, 2011 at 7:59 AM · Report this
32
@ 1, I'm guessing WWB is very young - from my experience, young girls tend to accept being treated badly because they don't really know how one is supposed to be treated in a sexual / romantic relationship.
Posted by tiare on October 12, 2011 at 8:09 AM · Report this
33
Junk is such a negative word for referring to one's genitalia. You may as well call your cock garbage or filth. I really hoped this term would fade quickly, but no such luck.
Posted by Proud of my dick on October 12, 2011 at 8:12 AM · Report this
nocutename 34
Mr. Venominon,
One of the things I like about you is that you *are* very ladylike (I can even visualize your pinkie extended as you sip whatever it is you're sipping), and then a dash of venom gets inserted into the flow. You're too much of a lady (I know you're a gentleman, but really this behavior is so much more Nan/Lucy Steele) to do it outright, but the dig is worth digging for.
(I know you're partial to bringing up Mary Crawford, but I think the Misses Steeles are more apt for this example.)
Posted by nocutename on October 12, 2011 at 8:26 AM · Report this
35
"The hardest part is seeing other freshmen go out to parties, hook up, and date when I don't have the opportunity to do so."

Um, don't you mean "The hardest part is seeing other freshmen go out to parties, hook up, and date when I don't [CHOOSE TO AVAIL MYSELF OF THE] opportunity to do so."

Sorry, kid, but time to grow up: you are choosing to remain in the closet. You. Either cut it out, or own it.
Posted by Good luck on October 12, 2011 at 9:20 AM · Report this
36
The first letter writer sounds like one of those over-exaggerators who thinks his problem is the WORLD'S WORST. It's common to all teenagers, so I can't really blame him, but I do hope he grows out of it soon.

Unless you're going to Bob Jones University or similar, the vast likelihood is that your college-aged friends and acquaintances in this day and age are fine with homosexuality.

If LW1 stays closeted -- or worse, selectively comes out to only some friends -- he'll run the risk of annoying people when they find out he's been hiding something so trivial from them because he thinks they can't handle it.
Posted by pp5656 on October 12, 2011 at 10:01 AM · Report this
Scrufff 37
To Closeted Undergrad:
As one gay guy to another, its 2011, you're in college, if and when you come, my bet is hardly anyone is going to care - oh another gay guy comes out, stop the presses! Fuck man, there's 12 year olds are coming out in 7th grade!

Today's college campuses are teaming with gay orgs., out students, straight allies, AIDS activists, gay marriage advocate groups etc. Sorry to sound a bit harsh but i see it as egotistical to think ANYONE in your school is going to care you're gay. Unless you're a St8 acting douche with a girlfriend. If that's the case, she'll be the only be the only one to "care". And she'll get over it tout de suite.

And as far as the "coming out" mechanisms are concerned, start out slow, tell a close friend, then a teammate, if you need to take baby steps, so be it. but really, my guess is no one is going to make a big deal, and if they do fuck them! Unless of course, you're known around campus as some big fag hating homophobe then you might have some issues with your coming out, but hopefully that is not the case with you.

In any event, take a deep breath and come out of the closet, its much nicer out here. good luck.
Posted by Scrufff on October 12, 2011 at 10:31 AM · Report this
Corylea 38
Closeted Undergrad, coming out doesn't have to happen all at once. You can tell one person at a time, if you need to. You can stick a toe out of the closet and then the whole foot and then the whole leg, and so on. Coming out in the "We're here, and we're queer so pay attention" way is like the 8th step in coming out, not the first. The first step is telling just one person.

Group-Sex Rookie, if you're having sex with your girlfriend while other people are nearby, it may make them uncomfortable for you and your girlfriend to have sex without a condom. If all of their body parts are exposed, they may not want you spraying body fluids around or leaving a wet spot on a mattress/rug/table that they hope to be having sex on in the near future. In my experience, the EVERYBODY-uses-condoms rule at sex parties isn't just to make sure that people who aren't fluid bonded use condoms, it's also to make sure that the people who ARE fluid bonded don't get anything on the people who may be having sex a foot away ... or on the space you're currently using, that other people may be using half an hour from now.

Posted by Corylea http://corylea.com/ on October 12, 2011 at 10:52 AM · Report this
39
@3: "See??? This is why I don't do dick!!"

Hah! Like douchebag lesbros don't exist.
Posted by you could just not date douchebags. on October 12, 2011 at 12:10 PM · Report this
rob! 40
@21, 24, 25, 30:

http://books.google.com/books?id=bBDyV_e…

Quick Googling finds Harvey Milk in New York, EAGLES in Los Angeles, Walt Whitman in Dallas (apparently since closed).

My personal opinion is that schools everywhere should be safe and welcoming places for everybody, and that sexual orientation shouldn't be a point of differentiation. That said, I'm all for alternative schools that specialize in performing arts, science, sports, and especially for kids economically marginalized and/or with unstable home lives, who have been kicked out for whatever reason or run away or self-emancipated or trying to get grounded again after life on the street—and I'm all for higher taxes to pay for them, with careful attention to make sure they're effective in their chosen specialties.

In my daydreams I imagine a world in which parents teach their children to appreciate the differences in people and to be kind and encouraging to everyone.
Posted by rob! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZBdUceCL5U on October 12, 2011 at 12:38 PM · Report this
Eva Hopkins 41
An aside to @ 34 - nocutename - I also appreciate the manners of Mr. Venominon & would like to have tea & crumpets, pinkie out, with him. :)
Posted by Eva Hopkins http://www.lunamusestudios.com on October 12, 2011 at 2:05 PM · Report this
42
@38 - I'm not a germaphobe or anything, but your description conjured up images of all kinds of nastiness... No sex parties for me!
Posted by sanguisuga on October 12, 2011 at 2:18 PM · Report this
43
@1 & @2:: I third it!!!!

I'm also in agreement with @3 and @4.
Posted by auntie grizelda on October 12, 2011 at 3:09 PM · Report this
44
My thanks to Ms Cute and Ms Hopkins.

And it occurs to me that I have left my habit of address unexplained all this time. It happened that, less than a month before he died, I had a telephone conversation with Quentin Crisp. We had a friend in common then living in California who, hearing I'd be in New York for the day, said I should phone Mr Crisp to pass on some good news. Mr Crisp was much amused and thoroughly charming. After he died, it seemed a nice little tribute to preserve that one mannerism of his; I just replaced Miss with Ms.
Posted by vennominon on October 12, 2011 at 4:12 PM · Report this
45
WTF? Your in a group sex oligarchy and you think abstaining from condoms with your girlfriend may be confusing. Condom up asshole and if you are in private with your loved one, than lose the skin. Really, no big deal wearing a condom. Some women prefer condoms due to the slick nature of the beast when lubed properly. Sometimes skin to skin can be irritating for the delicate tissues of a women. Mine too for that matter.
Posted by Bondsman51 on October 12, 2011 at 4:17 PM · Report this
46
Sometime around 1998, I went bowling & noticed a guy on the lanes focusing on his stupid cell phone call, & I thought: what's next, focusing on your stupid cell phone while receiving oral sex? It took a while, but hallelujah, that day has arrived!

And to #15, who says "I love how Dan is icked out by the term 'fluid bonded.' So unlike him to get skeeved out over sexual language." Um, I don't think that's really true; Dan has shown himself quite frequently to be one of the most peevishly neurotic public figures on the planet.
Posted by stonerkid on October 12, 2011 at 5:41 PM · Report this
47
Sometime around 1998, I went bowling & noticed a guy on the lanes focusing on his stupid cell phone call, & I thought: what's next, focusing on your stupid cell phone while receiving oral sex? It took a while, but hallelujah, that day has arrived!

And to #15, who says "I love how Dan is icked out by the term 'fluid bonded.' So unlike him to get skeeved out over sexual language." Um, I don't think that's really true; Dan has shown himself quite frequently to be one of the most peevishly neurotic public figures on the planet.
Posted by stonerkid on October 12, 2011 at 5:44 PM · Report this
48
the way you reframed CU's question in terms of closet heterosexuals is always a useful mental exercise. if somebody thinks something is ok for gay people to do then they should play the same scenario out with straight people and see if it still sounds ok. or "sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander" as my grandma would say.
Posted by metanymity on October 12, 2011 at 6:31 PM · Report this
49
My experience of (gay) group sex is pretty much that long-term partners who have that arrangement go bare with each other and no-one bats an eye. In fact, it is to be encouraged, since a loving couple having bareback sex is hot to watch for the other guys present. Oh, and yes, please remember to change condoms between orifices belonging to different people. I've seen someone forget this rule - BIG mistake.
Posted by cockyballsup on October 12, 2011 at 7:42 PM · Report this
50
WBB: DTMFA and shove his phone where the sun don't shine. I don't think it's a kink, because the letter sounds like xie is not happy with the boyfriend's treatment of hir.
Posted by Ashley Amber on October 12, 2011 at 7:51 PM · Report this
51
My longterm boyfriend will check his email on his smartphone while I'm going down on him, but that's because he knows how insanely frustrated / turned on it gets me to be faux-ignored like that. He's not *really* checking his e-mail, he's just pretending to ignore me because he knows it turns me way on to be treated like an object instead of a person. But we've been dating a long time and we've had many conversations about my whole "kink for being ignored" thing, so he knows it's not only OK, it's sexy to me.
Posted by dianasquiver on October 12, 2011 at 8:09 PM · Report this
52
Sheeh! Have some balls and slap that phone out of his hand! The nerve!

As for the 18yr old closeted dude---it gets better! Make some friends who you feel comfortable being yourself around. Or just bring it up with the ones you have, and perhaps they won't care as much as you fear. Every gay kid goes through this, and it just feels so much better to clear the air and not walk on eggshells around folks. There's lots of people to be friends with, everywhere. And even if you do go to a LGBT meeting, maybe you'll fall for some nice straight-acting over-achiever dude...or maybe you'll fall for a hairy queeny guy! Either way, fun times!
Posted by jojo_mofo on October 12, 2011 at 8:12 PM · Report this
53
Sheeh! Have some balls and slap that phone out of his hand! The nerve!

As for the 18yr old closeted dude---it gets better! Make some friends who you feel comfortable being yourself around. Or just bring it up with the ones you have, and perhaps they won't care as much as you fear. Every gay kid goes through this, and it just feels so much better to clear the air and not walk on eggshells around folks. There's lots of people to be friends with, everywhere. And even if you do go to a LGBT meeting, maybe you'll fall for some nice straight-acting over-achiever dude...or maybe you'll fall for a hairy queeny guy! Either way, fun times!
Posted by jojo_mofo on October 12, 2011 at 8:28 PM · Report this
54
Having grown up in the conservative heart of Mormonland, I was pretty much a closeted straight person. Furtive hookups in cars, pretending I didn't live with a boyfriend for months and months, cycle of shame and denial about any sexual attraction to men . . . fun stuff!
Posted by Portia27 on October 12, 2011 at 9:11 PM · Report this
55
And WBB, Dan's right: that camera should have been shoved so far up his slimeball ass you could have taken a picture of the roof of his mouth while he yelped like Mariah Carey.
Posted by auntie grizelda on October 12, 2011 at 9:48 PM · Report this
56
Methinks a girl who is blowing her 'friend' may not have high enough self-worth. We love to pretend that men and women are equally capable of having meaningless sex, but it's not true. The fact that she let him get away with treating her the way she did is just pathetic.

This is why I object to "slut" being re-claimed as a sex-positive term. Sluttiness usually comes from a place of lack of self-respect, in the guise of "sexual freedom". Guess what- it ain't free, ladies! You give away part of yourself to every man you are sexual with. Do yourself a favor and take the time to get to know him well enough to be sure he's worth it *before* you go there. Unappreciative assholes don't deserves blow jobs.
Posted by MakeItWorthIt on October 13, 2011 at 7:50 AM · Report this
57
"ladies, you give away part of yourself to every man you are sexual with"

How does that work, exactly? Am I giving him my pancreas? My wisdom teeth? My toenails? And is it only het girls who have to worry about this loss of our body parts?
Posted by EricaP on October 13, 2011 at 8:21 AM · Report this
58
Ah, I love you, EricaP...My thoughts exactly. I can be a one-man slut...and enjoy every second.
Posted by Firefly1329 on October 13, 2011 at 8:48 AM · Report this
59
Ah, I love you, EricaP - my thoughts exactly.

I've come to recognize...and embrace...and enjoy...that I'm a one-man slut. No problems with self-esteem anymore!
Posted by Firefly1329 on October 13, 2011 at 8:52 AM · Report this
60
Another note to CU, there are more flavors of gay than Baskin Robbins. Just because you are out doesn't mean you need to go shoe shopping with your best girlfriends or wear leathers and curl your black mustache. Out is who you are, not an image of something you may think you have to be. You mentioned teammates, you might want to have a look at Outsports, which promotes gay athletes in all sports, not just the "gay" ones, ;-P Good luck!
Posted by KyleCM on October 13, 2011 at 9:09 AM · Report this
61
To letter #2 - STOP blowing "friends" or men or guys or whatever until they've earned it. Never blow them until you've sat on their face or they've gone down on you several times. Why? It is logical before the peanut gallery on here gets all bent out of shape: because of precisely the attitude of this guy and of so many men she has written about here. Hearing about some guy leaning back and acting like he's entitled whilst getting a blow job is very common indeed therefore that attitude needs to be knocked the hell of out of 'em so they can learn the give and gives of real sex. Porn has gone down the pan nowadays and it has a lot to answer for this hateful attitude towards women in general. The general puritannical attitude of Americans creates an atmosphere of behaving as if sex is some "weird" event instead of simply, well, sex. So, my dear, if you enjoy giving head then learn how to receive it and receive it FIRST because there is nothing worse than an arrogant, selfish little snot nosed brat in the bedroom who happens to be man-shaped. And, unfortunately, they're quite common, indeed. Does this sound selfish at all? Get over it because the day you hear about a woman behaving like this asshole, you can best believe there will be literally - and I do mean literally - thousands of men who are doing worse and with no self-analysis or thoughts to their actions whatsoever. If a man hates women THAT much then he has no business expecting her to suck his cock. Makes sense, really. It is also VERY uniquely American to "brag" (in the manner of this fool here) about some woman blowing a guy instead of actually engaging in the enjoyment of it. Men in America have a lot of growing up to do. From what I can see, the women are all too willing but how can anyone get on board when you've got some idiot filming you for god knows who to see? Sex is sex so stop turning it into a fucking sport! Newsflash, it is BORING. The more I am away from that country the more sorry I feel for the inhabitants of it.
More...
Posted by Frederica Bimble on October 13, 2011 at 11:19 AM · Report this
mydriasis 62
"STOP blowing "friends" or men or guys or whatever until they've earned it. Never blow them until you've sat on their face or they've gone down on you several times."

Excuse me?
What if I don't want to sit on their face?
Ever?
Posted by mydriasis on October 13, 2011 at 12:17 PM · Report this
mydriasis 63
Also: as a sidenote, I have to say that I'm skeptical you would criticize a man who went down on his female "friend" without her reciprocating because he enjoyed it.
Posted by mydriasis on October 13, 2011 at 12:19 PM · Report this
64
Frederica doesn't think women enjoy giving blow jobs.
Posted by EricaP on October 13, 2011 at 1:58 PM · Report this
debug 65
Can we, the peanut gallery, all agree that Frederica @61 comes off as a condescending and pretentious whatever-the-female-equivalent-of-a-douche is?

Posted by debug on October 13, 2011 at 3:08 PM · Report this
66
I'll agree. That was a mind-numbing posting from Fredericka.

I've lived abroad. American men don't deserve special note for anti-female behavior.
Posted by Hunter78 on October 13, 2011 at 4:14 PM · Report this
67
Hi @65/Debug, if the sum total of your comment is to diss someone, please save it next time.

@Fredicka_Bimble, I appreciate the sentiment, not the overkill tone.

@mydirasis, I'm really curious. Cool if you don't care to receive oral, wondering if this is how you feel both ways. It's the "only one is okay" that I think is a signal of something messed up (usually self-esteem as someone pointed out).

Posted by newtinmpls on October 13, 2011 at 4:19 PM · Report this
mydriasis 68
@newtinmpls

I'm not sure I understand your question "only one is okay"? Both ways?

My feeling of oral sex is something along the lines of "why are you hitting that nail with a screwdriver when you have a hammer right there?".
Posted by mydriasis on October 13, 2011 at 5:22 PM · Report this
69
Frederica, would you agree with this rephrasing? "Consider if you are getting as much from a sexual relationship as you are giving. If you tend to give more than you get, give some thought as to why that might be."

That seems like great advice for WBB, and good advice in general. But I think it's important to acknowledge people like dianasquiver @51, who has clearly given plenty of thought to her "kink for being ignored."

Posted by EricaP on October 13, 2011 at 6:19 PM · Report this
70
@68 my clit prefers hitachis to screwdrivers or hammers, as long as we're getting our tools out :-)
Posted by EricaP on October 13, 2011 at 6:20 PM · Report this
mydriasis 71
I'm not into sex toys unless they're people.
Posted by mydriasis on October 13, 2011 at 7:09 PM · Report this
72
I read WBB's letter to my husband, and here is his short but perfect response: "I would advise her to BITE."
Posted by Capriquarious on October 13, 2011 at 9:17 PM · Report this
73
@61: (said in Inigo Montoya impression) You keep using that word. "Logical." I do not think it means what you think it means.

Your demand that he prove himself worthy by going down on you several times before you will consider blowing him is the very sort of self-entitlement that you ascribe to the opposite sex. Nice bit of projection you have going there. Clearly you feel entitled to oral yourself, even to the point of racking up a debt before you will even consider contributing. If that were appropriate, why would it be wrong of him to demand the exact same treatment of you in response? "Five blowjobs before I will even consider going down on you."

How about, if you enjoy giving blow jobs, just give them and enjoy it? (It did occur to you, did it not, that if you enjoy the activity, then you are getting some benefit out of it all by yourself, regardless of the other person's contribution?) And if you enjoy receiving oral, try opening with a nice request for some, instead of an ultimatum? (In other words, how about you wait until your partner displays an actual objectionable behavior before you start in on the boot camp style training him out of it?) And try not to conflate the two in your head.

For you to implement your plan the way you describe it, you would have to either:
a) keep quiet while studiously avoiding going near his crotch. I don't know about others, but that would probably give me the signal that you just don't like oral, which is unlikely to get you any; or
b) lay out your demands explicitly, which would give me the idea that you were either 1) into domination play, which isn't my thing, or 2) a nutjob who wouldn't know "logic" if it went down on her.
Posted by avast2006 on October 13, 2011 at 9:57 PM · Report this
74
@61, people like you to whom relationships are fucking games of chess don't deserve to be in one.
Posted by cockyballsup on October 14, 2011 at 4:37 AM · Report this
75
Forgive me for being so bold as to suggest some communication here, but if I were (as a gay man) blowing someone and they took out their phone/camera, I would ask, "What are you doing?" If they were taking pictures I didn't want taken, we would stop then and there and I would insist that they be deleted immediately. If they have already been sent out, obviously there is nothing I can do, but I can at least control what I can control to curtail future use. If it were that the guy was texting, I would quite likely want to know more about that. Is this not a good time for your calendar? Is the quality of the work not sufficient? Sure he will likely flag, but let's be honest, if it ends out working out for us both, there are ways to get him up again, and then start the fun.

I don't think being reactionary solves much. If he is getting off on your being used, your outrage will likely feed his fantasies. If he is just an inconsiderate dunderhead, then help him to learn what it means to be considerate. Either way, you can control only yourself and not him. Believe me, I am not suggesting this out of some sense of superior self-control. I am suggesting it because the preceding comments seem to just get more and more inflammatory, which tells me that something about their suggestions isn't working.
Posted by BillinChi on October 14, 2011 at 8:06 AM · Report this
76
Dan, you say that people who are out when they're 18 tend to be more effeminate and unable to hide. I find this comment not only offensive but enabling of those people who rationalize being in the closet in college as some kind of mark of masculinity, or who stay in the closet because they create a dichotomy between themselves and the "Effeminate" gay guys who cannot pass. The truth is that many "non-effeminate" gay guys do come out early in college, but the closeted gay guys never know it--as if they could have any sense of the gay community of a college by peaking at it from behind a curtain and never engaging with it. Plus--they create self-fulfilling prophesies--all of them meekly waiting like children for some leader to make coming out okay. Your 18-year old needs to have those stereotypes broken down; perhaps you, Dan, didn't come out til later, but many of us came out and were extremely frustrated that the vast majority of our fellow college students wouldn't do so yet. We (they) need to be praised for coming out early--not belittled with the implication that we only came out because we had to, while those that "can pass" stay in the closet--because they "can pass" and not for the real reason--because they are not emotionally mature or courageous enough to put aside their victim complex and finally deal with what they want, who they are, and the dangerous self-delusion that they stay closeted because either "being gay is no one else's business" or "being gay shouldn't define who they are"--because being bitter and being alone will very much define who they are.
Posted by Maxinny on October 14, 2011 at 9:15 AM · Report this
77
Capriqarios,

"I would advise her to BITE."

Likely to provoke an extremely violent response.
Posted by Hunter78 on October 14, 2011 at 9:28 AM · Report this
debug 78
@67 Sometimes someone needs to be told frankly that their writing style reflects badly upon themselves. I didn't call her names directly (thankfully, I don't know her) just described how she "came off" in her comment. Since knew she was being inflammatory (trolling): "...peanut gallery on here gets all bent out of shape..." so I asked for consensus from the other so-called peanuts here.

Play thread-cop if you wish, but I'll need you to show me your badge before I follow your rules.
Posted by debug on October 14, 2011 at 9:45 AM · Report this
79
@76 "Dan, you say that people who are out when they're 18 tend to be more effeminate and unable to hide. I find this comment not only offensive but enabling of those people who rationalize being in the closet in college as some kind of mark of masculinity...[It enables] the dangerous self-delusion that they stay closeted because 'being gay is no one else's business'"

Well said, Maxinny. Good for you for challenging some out-dated expectations.
Posted by EricaP on October 14, 2011 at 10:36 AM · Report this
Holmes 80
In response to GSR's question:

One thing to keep in mind when deciding whether or not to 'wrap up' in a group sex situation, even with one's 'bonded' partner is the etiquette involved in leaving the deck clear, so to speak, for the next guy that might want to go down on her. Women seem to enjoy that....so I've heard. And I'd hate to deprive my partner of that action by leaving a mess.

Some guys will dive into anything, oral sex-wise. Some will only clean up after themselves. Some won't even go there. So my policy is to slip a condom on unless I'm sure we're performing a finale at a party. And I'd appreciate other guys doing the same for their women if they want to share them completely.
Posted by Holmes on October 14, 2011 at 10:52 AM · Report this
Holmes 81
In response to GSR's question:

One thing to keep in mind when deciding whether or not to 'wrap up' in a group sex situation, even with one's 'bonded' partner is the etiquette involved in leaving the deck clear, so to speak, for the next guy that might want to go down on her. Women seem to enjoy that....so I've heard. And I'd hate to deprive my partner of that action by leaving a mess.

Some guys will dive into anything, oral sex-wise. Some will only clean up after themselves. Some won't even go there. So my policy is to slip a condom on unless I'm sure we're performing a finale at a party. And I'd appreciate other guys doing the same for their women if they want to share them completely.
Posted by Holmes on October 14, 2011 at 10:55 AM · Report this
82
WBB- You finished? If its my man catching my "blow-face" that's HOT but not a friend. I wouldn't blow my friends though so I'm biased on the situation. Either way, was it multiple keystrokes like a text or was it an aim and thumb action? You have to have a good idea what he was doing, you weren't that far from him.

@81 I enjoyed your perspective and look forward to this so called wrap up in group sex. Ill be conversing with my man.
Posted by wonderwoman on October 14, 2011 at 8:03 PM · Report this
83
@77 Hunter78: Maybe WBB should bite harder right after she shoves the camera up the douchebag's ass. Better yet---bite it all the way off, and spit the piece of junk in his ugly face.

Yeah, you're right. That gave me some pretty violent ideas.
This ridiculous Repig waged "War on Women" has me pissed.
Posted by auntie grizelda on October 15, 2011 at 12:22 AM · Report this
84
@77 Hunter78: I'm sorry I went off.
The GOP's got me in a bad mood, but it's off topic.
Posted by auntie grizelda on October 15, 2011 at 1:48 AM · Report this
85
@83 You and every sane person in America. Though I don't think biting off some jerk's piece is going to get them out of congress any sooner. The mainstream television news really should have been reporting on this stuff months ago when they started talking about rape audits.
Posted by mygash on October 15, 2011 at 1:57 AM · Report this
mydriasis 86
what the fuck is a "rape audit"?
not something I'm super keen on googling...

Also, grizelda, you never got back to my much earlier question to you. :p
Posted by mydriasis on October 15, 2011 at 6:52 AM · Report this
87
@86
It's a bill called H.R.3 or the No Taxpayer Funding For Abortion Act, it passed the House in May and is still waiting for the Senate.

From the Huffington Post article:

"Marcus Owens, a former longtime IRS official, told Mother Jones that if a woman received a tax credit for medical costs related to abortion, "on audit [she] would have to demonstrate or prove, ideally by contemporaneous written documentation, that it was incest, or rape, or [her] life was in danger. It would be fairly intrusive for the woman."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/04…

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/0…
Posted by mygash on October 15, 2011 at 1:38 PM · Report this
88
@86: mydriasis: Whoa!! I missed something---sorry!! What was your question from much earlier? It's apparently not in regards to this particular blog.
Posted by auntie grizelda on October 15, 2011 at 4:40 PM · Report this
mydriasis 89
62
"STOP blowing "friends" or men or guys or whatever until they've earned it. Never blow them until you've sat on their face or they've gone down on you several times."

Excuse me?
What if I don't want to sit on their face?
Ever?
Posted by mydriasis on October 13, 2011 at 12:17 PM · Report

63
Also: as a sidenote, I have to say that I'm skeptical you would criticize a man who went down on his female "friend" without her reciprocating because he enjoyed it.
Posted by mydriasis on October 13, 2011 at 12:19 PM · Report
Posted by mydriasis on October 16, 2011 at 2:38 AM · Report this
90
A weighty question, reposed!
Posted by Hunter78 on October 16, 2011 at 5:08 AM · Report this
91
I like to eat the fruit, not the orchard.

Posted by Hunter78 on October 16, 2011 at 6:29 AM · Report this
Miz Val 92
Who made up the 2nd letter? They need to be kicked in the behind for being so stupid. So should the person that made up the 3rd letter.
Posted by Miz Val on October 16, 2011 at 8:10 AM · Report this
93
@88: Mydriasis----are you now avoiding my question to you?
Posted by auntie grizelda on October 16, 2011 at 11:25 AM · Report this
mydriasis 94
no? i'm confused...

it's from 30 posts earlier..
Posted by mydriasis on October 16, 2011 at 11:39 AM · Report this
mydriasis 95
@87

That's awful.
America confuses me. So rich, so many schools, massive scientific community... and yet has the human rights attitudes of a poor, 'third world' country. I can't quite get my head around why.

Anyway I'm sorry to hear that.
Posted by mydriasis on October 16, 2011 at 3:04 PM · Report this
96
mydriasis @86: "Also, grizelda, you never got back to my much earlier question to you."

grizelda @88: "What was your question from much earlier?"

mydriasis @89: repeats a question posed to Frederica @62-63.

grizelda @93: tell me again, what was the question?

mydriasis @94: again, seems to refer to the question at 62-63.

Hey, mydriasis, do you realize that grizelda and Frederica are not the same person? Or are you referring to your question to grizelda on Oct 9th, in the Messed-up Junk thread, about her nationality? I'm pretty sure she's a US citizen, for what it's worth.
Posted by EricaP on October 16, 2011 at 4:50 PM · Report this
mydriasis 97
touche!
Sorry, I made a scrolling error, and I mistook who wrote what.
Posted by mydriasis on October 16, 2011 at 5:35 PM · Report this
98
It's worth repeating some observations that came out in past SL editions, namely that not all women enjoy receiving oral sex (not early in the sexual relationship anyway), and not everyone views giving and receiving oral sex as equivalent acts, i.e. that the one reciprocates for the other.
Posted by Mr. J on October 16, 2011 at 5:40 PM · Report this
99
mydriasis - No worries, I've done similar things. Thanks for clarifying.

Mr. J -- hi!
Posted by EricaP on October 16, 2011 at 6:54 PM · Report this
100
Hi EricaP.
Posted by Mr. J on October 16, 2011 at 7:03 PM · Report this
101
@96 &97: mydriasis & EricaP: Thanks for clarifying. I agree: no worries, no harm, no foul.
Posted by auntie grizelda on October 17, 2011 at 1:15 AM · Report this
102
96: EricaP: Actually, I think mydriasis was responding to nocturnomath regarding a post from October 8th. No sweat. Life happens. It added to the blog.

And you're right---I'm about as American mutt as Mom's apple pie, and part of the 99%.
Posted by auntie grizelda on October 17, 2011 at 4:49 AM · Report this
103
I'm surprised Frederica hasn't posted a rebuttal.
Posted by aeros66 on October 17, 2011 at 6:55 PM · Report this
104
@103 she doesn't check obsessively like some of us...
Posted by EricaP on October 17, 2011 at 7:42 PM · Report this
105
@104: Qui--moi??
Posted by auntie grizelda on October 17, 2011 at 10:22 PM · Report this
106
@103 EricaP: Am I bad for enjoying blogs?
Posted by auntie grizelda on October 17, 2011 at 10:38 PM · Report this
mydriasis 107
@auntie

I think she meant me!
Posted by mydriasis on October 18, 2011 at 8:29 AM · Report this
108
@107: Okay-ha ha-my bad!
Posted by auntie grizelda on October 18, 2011 at 11:48 AM · Report this
109
AAAAAAh so that who that chick was with the dick in her mouth. Me buddy was always an ass.
Posted by flipx on October 18, 2011 at 1:17 PM · Report this
110
@107/108 - I meant me, sillies!
Posted by EricaP on October 18, 2011 at 1:37 PM · Report this
111
This is irreplaceable discussion.

Posted by Hunter78 on October 18, 2011 at 3:12 PM · Report this
112
Yep---gotta love this blog! You guys and gals are so much fun---like a second extended family that laughs, cries, screams and says shit a lot.
Posted by auntie grizelda on October 18, 2011 at 6:41 PM · Report this
113
I've thought of coming out for years, however I am involved in a segement of the sports world (profesionally) and I still feel the time isn't right. I speak more openly about orientation and freedom of choice etc with close friends, but I still keep that "buffer zone". God, I'm so looking forward to the day when I can be completely honest with myself and others.
Posted by Rolly on October 18, 2011 at 8:17 PM · Report this
114
@113, what do you think might happen? Do you think you might not get key endorsements, or do you think your teammates will sabotage you on the field (or beat you up)? I'm curious what prevents you from standing up for who you are.

Posted by EricaP on October 18, 2011 at 8:22 PM · Report this
115
If my wife started playing with her phone while I was going down on her, she would never get another blowjob.

If I were with a man and he did that, I would bite down.
Posted by Rach on October 20, 2011 at 3:01 PM · Report this
116
@115: How is it anatomically possible for someone to be gone down on and receive a blowjob?

This makes me wonder how to describe giving oral sex to someone who is intersex.
Posted by BlackRose on October 20, 2011 at 7:47 PM · Report this
mydriasis 117
@Blackrose

Sometimes people colliqually refer to oral sex preformed on women as a "blowjob" as well. It's kind of a humourous thing, but I've def seen/heard it before.
Posted by mydriasis on October 21, 2011 at 9:41 AM · Report this
118
@117: Thanks, that kinda makes sense. And it's amazing and sobering to me to see how surprised and incredulous you are that we don't have affordable health care here in the US. Not having affordable health care and having to pay for any medical services is so normal and so default here.
Posted by BlackRose on October 23, 2011 at 3:49 AM · Report this
mydriasis 119
@Blackrose

It just seems so needlessly draconian for a developed country, in my mind anyway. It's strange though because so many Americans seem "against" healthcare? At least that's how the media tells it. I dunno, the way Americans publicly come off (and my expatriate cousins are the same way) is just so hysterically obsessed with 'liberty' even when it's not in any way threatened? As if the redcoats are still breathing down their necks...

**** I'm not saying anyone posting here is this way, it's just sort of my general perception of American politics/habits/etc based on very inaccurate sources.
Posted by mydriasis on October 25, 2011 at 5:29 AM · Report this
120
@119: Most Americans are for health care, but we no longer control our government.
Posted by BlackRose on October 26, 2011 at 3:34 AM · Report this
121
You're right we Americans are terribly into liberty, so much so we shoot ourselves in the foot by continuing to eat "edible food-like substances" that make us sick, continue to heat our wasteful houses rather than take advantage of new techniques to air seal and insulate, refuse to switch to alternative energy despite the ease and affordability. It's saddening and maddening to live in a culture of "you can't make me!" when no one's suggesting force as much as an advantageous new direction.
Posted by SparkDawg on November 19, 2011 at 12:29 PM · Report this

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