Deep Thought

March 26, 2009

By Dan Savage

The two things that I dig most on a woman are a nice big pair of... swim fins. Some of my earliest sexual fantasies revolve around Jacqueline Bisset in The Deep. It's frustrating to have such a bizarre fetish. There is a small subculture devoted to scuba fetishism on the internet, but it's a total sausage/snorkel fest. One day I'm heading somewhere tropical like Hawaii, where I hope to meet scuba divas. Until then, what do you suggest? Give up my fetish and embrace vanilla? Or redouble my efforts to find one of the maybe half-dozen women in the world into this?

Fin Fun Fan

It's amazing how the sight of something as innocuous-yet-titillating as the poster for The Deep can, if a young man lays eyes on it at just the right moment, endow that boy with a lifelong/love-life-complicating fetish. I ponder this phenomenon every time I see that ad for Old Spice's new Live Wire body wash featuring an impossibly hot centaur soaping up in the shower. (While you regard your fetish as a burden, FFF, at least you can find scuba gear. Where are all the fetishists being created by Old Spice supposed to find centaurs?)

The odds that you will one day meet one of the very few women out there who share your fetish are slim, FFF. But let's say you manage to track one down. What are the odds that you'll be attracted to her physically? And emotionally? Slim and slimmer. Your best bet is to date women you find attractive, demonstrate that you're a decent and loving guy who can enjoy vanilla sex, and then roll out your fetish.

Some would argue that withholding info about your fetish is dishonest. I would argue, however, that "withholding" info about a harmless fetish—FFF just wants to play dress-up, he's not into shit or shunts or shin splints—demonstrates a certain degree of emotional intelligence. Waiting about three months says to prospective scuba babes, "Hey, I wanted you to get to know me before I told you this, because I realize that it might strike you as odd. And while I'm kinky, I'm not obtuse or insensitive."

I am a straight 22-year-old male who identifies as a crossdresser. I enjoy it, and I'm okay with myself. But my ex-girlfriend revealed to me that it made her feel like less of a woman and that I was doing the female version of emasculation to her. (Ask.com says the word is "femasculation.") How can I work through this with my ex so we can get back together?

Bashfully Oblivious Ovary Buster

Either your ex was honestly threatened by your crossdressing, BOOB, or she's doing what a lot of us do when a seemingly decent relationship comes to shit for no good reason: She's looking for an explanation, and your crossdressing is the low-hanging fruit. Blaming the cross-dressing allows her to rationalize the breakup in a way that leaves you both blameless, i.e., the relationship was done in by your panties and not by something that she did or by something that you had any real control over.

Can you help her work through this? Probably not, BOOB, particularly if she was actually feeling "femasculated." You could agree to stop crossdressing, but you'll only wind up doing it on the sly. You'll get caught in panties and end up dumped all over again. And if pointing to your crossdressing was just a rationalization, BOOB, then there's nothing to solve here, no way of working through this. Find a new girlfriend.

I'm a 24-year-old guy, and I just got a blowjob from (and gave a half-assed one to) a transsexual male-to-female prostitute. It was no accident: I'd spent about two years looking at TS porn (as well as regular guys-doing-it-with-girls porn), and the whole thing seemed like a hot idea. But the plastic-surgery scars around her tits and her cock in my mouth kind of made me nauseated. I went through the motions only because I didn't have the guts to walk out. (We both had condoms on.)

I'm not sure if I can face my girlfriend of a year. I've been faithful to her until now, and I feel like crying. I don't know if it's because it was illegal (prostitution), because I was cheating on her (unfaithful), or because I can't say I'm totally straight anymore (cock in my mouth). I don't know how to tell my girlfriend. She knows I look at porn, but she doesn't know I look at TS porn—no one does.

Regrets About Gay Experience

Paradoxically, RAGE, going down on a shemale escort shores up your heterosexual bona fides. Gay guys don't frequent and/or fellate shemale escorts (on purpose or by accident); getting with shemales is an entirely straight-male pursuit. So you can go right on identifying as straight, RAGE. Of course you aren't totally straight—try thinking of yourself as something more than straight, not less—but you're close enough that you can round yourself down to straight with a clear conscience. (Offer void the day you start blowing hemale escorts.)

As for the rest of your angst: If you're serious about this woman, then cheating on her like this was a shitty thing to do. But you're not married yet, RAGE, and now's the time to get out there and satisfy any outstanding sexual curiosities—before marriage and before kids. And while unburdening yourself to the girlfriend may sound like the noble thing to do—honesty being the best policy and all—each of us gets to take at least one big secret to the grave. If this truly was a one-time, lesson-learned, never-again experience, let it be the secret you're buried with.

Finally, RAGE, good on you and your escort for using condoms. But there are a whole host of sexually transmitted infections you could've picked up from her, condom or no condom. Make whatever excuse you need to in order to get out of having sex with the girlfriend, go get a full STI screening, and refrain from having sex until you get the all clear from your doctor.

While your response for To Rape Or Not To Rape is great advice to keep a horny guy out of a legal jam, you failed to consider whether the woman TRONTR is corresponding with is an actual consenting person. Just because TRONTR has couple of IMs, a photo, and e-mail consent to rape one janedoe@geemale .com doesn't mean he's actually corresponding with a person who shares his fantasy. He could be corresponding with a person impersonating Jane Doe. I have friends who've had personal ads placed online with their names, photos, and addresses imploring someone to abduct and rape them. The situation reeks of a setup, and your advice is irresponsible.

Poster Bitch

TRONTR indicated in his letter that he wouldn't do anything with this person until he met her in person for drinks and verified her identity and interests. I encouraged him to get it in writing in addition to getting a verbal and visual confirmation, not in place of either. There are people out there maliciously posting personal ads; there are also people out there sincerely interested in rape and abduction role-play scenes. Anyone thinking about realizing a fantasy as extreme and edgy as abduction/rape role-play needs to get it in writing and from the lips of the person or persons with whom he or she intends to play.

mail@savagelove.net

 

Comments (145) RSS

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1
Is it really that odd to see crossdressing as a sort of minstrel show? Or at least drag? The stereotypes, the comedy, the entertainment... the all-too-common subtext that, just like everything else in this world, men can do it better than women – even when it comes to being a woman.

I don't think this is the intention and have drag friends, but have had a few reasonable debates with one of them (we're both black) when I compared blackface and make-up – sure, s/he sees it as a 'celebration,' but intent and reception are not one and the same.
Posted by Sdeza on March 24, 2009 at 9:17 PM · Report
2
Wow, interesting.
Posted by Becca on March 24, 2009 at 9:19 PM · Report
3
Fin Fun Fan needs to understand that his fetish is no more bizzare than anyone else's. I enjoy being diapered and spanked. FFF, who do you think will have a harder time explaining themselves? Point is, we are all bizzare, just relax and enjoy it or you'll bury yourself with unneeded guilt and misery.
Posted by DirtyBoy on March 24, 2009 at 9:21 PM · Report
4 Comment Pulled
5
Doncha love it when people only read half the answers and skim over the rest (ie Poster Bitch)?
Posted by suki on March 24, 2009 at 9:28 PM · Report
6
@ Sdeza

I don't think Drag Queens are better at being women. They're better at being Divas.
Posted by Blahdy on March 24, 2009 at 9:29 PM · Report
7
damn it!
Posted by dfans on March 24, 2009 at 9:29 PM · Report
8
*finds herself wondering if FFF has ever considered mermaids sexually, given the water/fin/female kink* It would probably be easier to find one of those than a swim fin exhibitionist.
Posted by DeadCat on March 24, 2009 at 9:35 PM · Report
9
Fin Fun Fan, what a sweet and wholesome little fetish - fins are so nice and clean after being in the water, you know? I can't say I'm into them that way, but if a decent, funny, special guy I was dating busted that out, it'd go firmly in the "really? OK whatever, let's do it" category. You don't have to find someone who's into fins, you just need to find someone who's into YOU!
Posted by GG1000 on March 24, 2009 at 9:42 PM · Report
10
Fin Fan - you should look into scuba/snorkling clubs in your area (they even have them in landlocked areas). You could meet someone who's already comfortable and into wearing the gear for reasons she enjoys, which should hopefully make it easier to introduce them into the bedroom.

"Hey honey, that was a great dive today, know what else might be fun?"

Worst case, you'd at least end up with plenty of material for the spank bank - just don't be creepy and obvious about it.
Posted by Karla on March 24, 2009 at 10:21 PM · Report
11
I'm with GG1000 - if a boyfriend of mine let me know he was into swim fins, I'd be surprised, but I'd be totally down with heading down to the dive store and buying a few pairs! And what a lovely excuse to plan some nice beach vacations together!
Posted by Starbright on March 24, 2009 at 10:28 PM · Report
12
You know, FFF can just....find a girl into [but probably not //into//] scuba diving. I mean, gosh, isn't that the "in" vacation thing to do anymore?

If he can keep himself cool while around all that gear, maybe he should just invest in scuba lessons and vacations. "Normal" vanilla girls all want to have sex on the beach, too.
Posted by a.james on March 24, 2009 at 10:32 PM · Report
13
"Scuba divas" Heehee!

What a nice fetish. Do this- when you bring it up, couch it in terms of a trip to Hawaii. To "explore, you know?" I'd go.
Posted by Mr. on March 24, 2009 at 10:34 PM · Report
14
secret to the grave advice spot on, Dan. Our partners don't need to know if it'd only hurt them. We screwed up, lesson learnt, never again. Thus we should deal with the consequences ourselves. If you can't deal with the guilt, don't cheat.
Posted by Cara on March 25, 2009 at 1:38 AM · Report
15
What does he mean by fins? Like, the ones that go on your feet? Yeah its a little odd but it doesn't seem disgusting or anything, I think most girls who are into you and not totally uptight would be fine to try it. Its not that different than wearing high heels during sex.
Posted by vitaminwater on March 25, 2009 at 2:30 AM · Report
16
I wonder if FFF might be satisfied with the female version of Michael Phelps, I mean, my god, the man has human flippers, not feet..
Otherwise one of the most Saccharine fetishes I've heard of.. Don't be worried, at worst I would think women would find it odd, and once they see how amplified your lust and attention is, they might really like it too. Just remember there is a woman attached to those hot hot flippers and compliment how "ScubaSexy" she looks dolled up... GGG partners will often eventually get off on a fetish themselves, in a roundabout way, just from the Amplification Factor...
Posted by Quagmire on March 25, 2009 at 3:48 AM · Report
17
Re. "there are a whole host of sexually transmitted infections you could've picked up from her, condom or no condom."

What could he have caught if they were both wearing condoms?!
Posted by DC on March 25, 2009 at 5:24 AM · Report
18
I find it interesting that you make the comment 'you aren't married' when talking about someone cheating- like that even matters. I am in a straight life partnership (no marriage license) and the agreements we make about our sexuality are just as important as they would be if we had that little piece of paper. I am no prude, and I believe in satisfying fantasies, but if you are with a committed partner- you should make sure that the two of you are in agreement about whatever it is you are doing--not sneak around.
Posted by curious on March 25, 2009 at 5:38 AM · Report
19
FFF should simmer down and realize that nearly every city has multiple scuba schools. Meet a girl, then suggest that going to get certified might be a fun thing to do together. How hard is that?
Posted by scubadude on March 25, 2009 at 5:55 AM · Report
20
I like Dan's advice to RAGE, but I think he should also consider whether keeping a secret like this is going to interfere with his relationship, and whether his girlfriend would want to know. If he feels that guilty, she might already know something's up, and might even be relieved to learn what it is, even though it's shitty. Some people can work through and get over things on their own, but if RAGE is the kind of person who's going to feel guilty forever or thinks keeping a secret like this is going to drive a wedge between them, he should tell her. Especially if he knows she'd really hate having something like this kept from her.
Posted by foobat on March 25, 2009 at 6:28 AM · Report
21
The scuba club idea would be great, but I think FFF has found that most clubs and tour groups are overwhelmingly male. Most of the women are there with their male dive buddy of choice. IT's like ballroom dancing, but reversed.

FFF should find someone who's always wanted to learn. Then just tell her how hot she looks geared up. My wetsuit always made me feel kinda sexy.
Posted by Amber on March 25, 2009 at 6:29 AM · Report
22
Finally, RAGE, good on you and your escort for using condoms. But there are a whole host of sexually transmitted infections you could've picked up from her, condom or no condom.
Er...not to be too foolish...but...could you list them?
Posted by fin on March 25, 2009 at 6:32 AM · Report
23
FFF reminds me of a costume ball where one imaginative guy came dressed as Dale Evans, leather mini with fringes, Stetson, etc. PLUS fins, snorkel and face mask - "Silver's Fantasy by the Sea."
Posted by david on March 25, 2009 at 6:37 AM · Report
24
get a life dfans
Posted by none on March 25, 2009 at 6:37 AM · Report
25
Marriage is totally irrelevant to a committed relationship. If you're in a commited monogamous relationship, its cheating no matter what, the lack of a piece of paper or a ring doesn't make the cheating "better" or acceptable. Amazing how even american ultra-libs can be that conservative
Posted by Wurm on March 25, 2009 at 6:49 AM · Report
26
Re: Poster Bitch - I'm afraid for the world if Poster Bitch really has more than one friend who has had "personal ads placed online with their names, photos, and addresses imploring someone to abduct and rape them". Really, it sounds a little farfecthed to me...
Posted by TED on March 25, 2009 at 7:09 AM · Report
27
BOOB - The truth is that a lot of women are really (I mean REALLY) turned off by the idea of hot, sexy, hetero men dressed in dainty women's underwear. If I caught my husband dressed like that it would ruin it for me! I like my man to look and act like a man. Cross dressing would be a deal breaker for me, no matter how appealing the guy was otherwise.

Now, that doesn't mean that I think there is anything wrong with cross dressing or the guys who are into it. I'm just not into them, and nothing could make me "work through" my feelings on the matter.

The point I'm making is that you have to find someone who is honestly down with cross dressing. Your ex is not, and I completely agree with Dan: find a new girlfriend.
Posted by olympia1970 on March 25, 2009 at 7:10 AM · Report
28
Time to get over not being "totally straight." Sorry, but that's not something anyone gets a merit badge for. You're feeling horrible because you've been a lying, cheating bastard.
Posted by Gloria on March 25, 2009 at 7:14 AM · Report
29
Fin Fun Fan doesn't really have that odd of a fetish. It's not that much of a stretch from getting a girl to put on a cheerleading outfit or really high heels or other common items. This is the same thing, really and, if you explain this to a woman who's into you, she'll probably think it's cool. Unusual but cool.
Posted by Canuck on March 25, 2009 at 7:19 AM · Report
30
Luv luv luv it:

"Offer void the day you start blowing hemale escorts"

You're the best Dan.

Keep 'em comin :)
Posted by Fred34 on March 25, 2009 at 7:30 AM · Report
31
Regarding STDs you can get even if both partners use condoms -- Both herpes and HPV can both be spread through skin-to-skin contact; if the condom doesn't cover affected skin, they can still be transmitted.
Posted by m on March 25, 2009 at 7:30 AM · Report
32
Dan I love your column and read it weekly as well as listen to your podcast. One thing I notice that you seem to be an enabeler for tranny chasers. Trannys due to hormones and plastic surgery may appear as women but are biologically males. So explain to me how two males can have sex and the non-trans remains straight?? Dan I beg to differ but truly straight men do not suck dick.
Posted by Super Gay on March 25, 2009 at 7:39 AM · Report
33
@Poster Bitch; what city do you live in? I really want to know because I never want to move there if you know multiple friends that had this happen. You should probably ask about their internet habits and their 'friends'.
Posted by anon on March 25, 2009 at 8:13 AM · Report
34
FFF,

You won't find a girl into your fetish, so you need to offer something in return. Tell her for a "fin" (fi' dolla') you dive and snorkel her LONGtime.
Posted by anonymous on March 25, 2009 at 8:31 AM · Report
35
DC: Yours is actually a very important, since I think that most people don't realize that some STI's are still transmittable despite condom use. Condoms are great at preventing the STI's we're most concerned about: AIDS and babies. However, other infections can be spread through "sexual touching," i.e., the genitals not covered by the condom can transmit them too.
I wasn't able to quickly find a list online of which diseases this includes, though I'm sure such a list exists if one were to look for it a bit harder than I did. I did, however, find that herpes has some risk of transmission despite a condom (http://herpes-answers.org/). I hope that helps.
Posted by Elf on March 25, 2009 at 8:46 AM · Report
36
@ olympia1970: It's not my intention to antagonize you, but what you just described is sexist.

Women have fought a long time to make it ok for us to wear pants and have short hair and not have to be "feminine" all the time, and yet still be accepted as real women. The next step is to do the same thing for men. It's not ok that our society still expects men to have to be macho all the time - and that includes our restrictions on what men can and can't wear.

I'm certainly not saying that you're a bad person. You are, however, trapped by the same stereotypes as the rest of us. We all needs to work to dismantle them.
Posted by Elf on March 25, 2009 at 8:55 AM · Report
37
"OMG YOU MIGHT HAVE GOTTEN SOME DISEASES FROM THE FILTHY SHE MALE PROSTITUTE"

Dan, how nice for you to so blatantly display your upper class white gay cis male prejudices, especially when you pretend to be so 'down with the kids'

A. DO NOT CALL A TRANS WOMAN A SHE MALE YOU FUCKER. Unless you want me to start calling cis gay men 'fudgepackers' in polite conversation. It's a totally gross insulting word which not even most bonefide heterosexual bigots use anymore


B. If he had cheated on his girlfriend with a non-sex worker would you be telling him he's probably diseased?? And the only STI you can pick up from covered blow jobs is oral herpes which 80% of the population has anyway. And contrary to your opinion, most sex workers are very conscientious about STI transmission because it's their job and they care about doing it well, something you don't see too concerned about
Posted by Cyd on March 25, 2009 at 9:27 AM · Report
38
dfans, please get a life. thanks.
Posted by Jocelyn on March 25, 2009 at 9:29 AM · Report
39
oh and cyd, dan's always been pretty clear that all sex carries some risk, not just sex with prostitutes. also, trans hookers tend to advertise themselves as "shemales" because they're playing to a fetish. being a transsexual woman and trying to live a private life is not at all the same thing as advertising your transness for business purposes.

bottom line: you are just one of those people who likes being offended. please consider taking a chill pill. thanks.
Posted by Jocelyn on March 25, 2009 at 9:32 AM · Report
40
I love that commercial!

And so do people on youtube:
"i know.... not only is he hot to begin with... but this whole centaur thing is just soooo hot..... its so wrong lol.,,,, but so fucking hot... hard to explain, but god the centaur is a hot sex symbol... but even hotter with HIM as the centaur... hot in a weird perverse kind of way "

My god, I love Dan Savage.
Posted by Sarah on March 25, 2009 at 10:00 AM · Report
41
Yep, Sdeza. It's just another form of misogyny. Whattayagonna do?
Posted by cm on March 25, 2009 at 11:04 AM · Report
42
BOOB, there are women out there who enjoy it when their boyfriends/husbands crossdress - you can look for someone who shares your kink or at least won't insult you for having it.
Posted by Chase on March 25, 2009 at 11:12 AM · Report
43
"Male latex condoms are very effective in reducing STDs spread through semen or vaginal secretions, including chlamydia, HIV, gonorrhea, and trichomoniasis. (Natural, or lambskin, condoms, however, do not prevent the spread of STDs.) Latex condoms also can provide some protection against genital ulcer STDs such as genital herpes, syphilis, and chancroid. Because these STDs can be transmitted via skin contact, condoms provide a lesser degree of protection against them."
-- http://www.walgreens.com/library/ask/aap…
Posted by Anonnymouse on March 25, 2009 at 11:14 AM · Report
44
Fin Fun Fan hasn't got a big, embarrassing reveal to worry about. Telling a girlfriend of three months that you'd like it if they wore flippers every once in awhile during sex shouldn't cause that much worry, even for a fairly vanilla girl. His fetish doesn't involve pee, pain, etc. Just a costume.
Posted by MichelleZB on March 25, 2009 at 11:24 AM · Report
45
FFF is a lucky man. A mild, safe fetish like swim fins can serve as an excellent barometer for the GGG-ness of potential mates.

A gal who won't at least learn (and learn quickly) to indulge a fetish like FFF's is so hung-up on the Puritan-derived sex-phobic ideals of this fucked up culture that she's not really suitable for anyone at all and would be well-advised to just die lonely.

A lot of you normal guys could take a page from FFF and acquire a nice sweet kinda goofy fetish like that as a nice little acid test.

As for my fellow centaur-philes (including drider-philes, mermaid-philes, satyr-philes et. al) hope looms! What they're doing with longevity these days makes it distantly possible that we'll live long enough to get to climb up on that stump someday!
Posted by Max on March 25, 2009 at 11:34 AM · Report
46
RAGE, you can totally say your're straight since you apparently just proved it to yourself by trying to suck dick and not liking it. Sucking a dick doesn't "turn" you into anything. Really. And if your main motivation for telling your gf about it is because you feel guilty for having done something you'll never do again, please spare her the misery. It would be one thing if you'd just discovered you really LIKE sucking dick. She'd have every right to know that. But if you've just discovered you DON'T like sucking dick, just shut up about it. The only possible reason you could have for wanting to tell your gf that you blew a prostitute is to make yourself feel better. But relieving your "guilt" by confessing to your gf will just hurt her -- and for no good reason other than your own selfishness.
Posted by anonymama on March 25, 2009 at 12:04 PM · Report
47
It's not just that BOOB needs to find a girl who's into (or okay with(crossdressing.) You've got to also be compatible with each other's mindset underneath the kink.

For example, I had one boyfriend who would occasionally xdress. HOT! We both got off on the mix of vulnerability and taboo-breaking.

But then later I had another boyfriend who liked to xdress often. Ugh! His thing was to act competitive and bitchy (more like a drag queen diva) and instead of being sexy WITH me, he was narcisstically trying to be hotter than me (in MY clothes!) DUMPED HIM.
Posted by camilla on March 25, 2009 at 12:12 PM · Report
48
Hey BOOB! I'm amazed at how hard it is to find crossdressing straight men who are in their 20's. I've been seeking your kind - fruitlessly. Check me out on lustlab: delicioubetcha.
Posted by delicioubetcha on March 25, 2009 at 12:15 PM · Report
49
Elf: I don't think you read my post. What I said was the "I" am not into guys who wear dresses. Many other women aren't either. That doesn't make me sexist, it just makes me honest! If there is one thing that Dan faithfully preaches, it's to thine own self be true. I don't give a darn if a guy I'm not with is a cross dresser. I'd hire him, vote for him, live next door for him, whatever, so long as he stays outa' my bedroom. How the hell does that make me sexist? Are gay guys sexist because boobs and other girl parts don't turn them on? Sheesh. You need to grow up a little.
Posted by olympia1970 on March 25, 2009 at 12:30 PM · Report
50
Ok A. shemale is actually not used in the sex industry very often, TS is.
B. Shemale is still not a word that a cisgendered man is allowed to use. Just like I as a white person would not refer to hip hop artist 50 cent as 'a nigger'just because that is how he refers to himself
C. If dan savage is sending people to the sexual health clinic for a single incidence of a covered blow job he is wasting the medical professions time. He obviously has little to no knowledge of how STI transmission works, and therefore shouldn't be giving sexual advice.

AND OH YES I AM JUST ONE OF THOSE ANGRY TRANSGENDERS LOOKING TO BE OFFENDED....GEE I'M SO SORRY FOR HAVING EMOTIONS
Posted by Cyd on March 25, 2009 at 12:35 PM · Report
51
And to the person who posted the info about condoms not protecting a person from skin to skin transmission of herpes/warts.
As HPV and Herpes simplex 1 viruses are so common in the human population there is no reason to test for them. The only way he can get tested for the presence of simpex 2 or warts on his mouth or dick is through swabs of sores, which it would be pretty unlikely that he would currently have.
Posted by Cyd on March 25, 2009 at 12:56 PM · Report
52
@Elf: Personal preference is not the same as bigotry. Or do you think that it's homophobic for a man to only want to fuck women?
Posted by christopher on March 25, 2009 at 1:13 PM · Report
53
Nice advice on the scuba interest, Dan.
If she can't take the hint that he'd like to go on a tropical vacation with her in a wet suit, well da! Just watch the classic "Dr. No" or "Thunderball" and it ought to get both your pulses racing... to say nothing of "The Deep"...
Posted by KG on March 25, 2009 at 1:43 PM · Report
54
Why don't gay guys like trannys? Why is it only a straight guy thing?
Posted by Yvette on March 25, 2009 at 2:19 PM · Report
55
You mean, a gay guy wouldn't go out with Thomas Beatie or another intersexed individual?
Posted by Yvette on March 25, 2009 at 2:20 PM · Report
56
as soon as i read the word "shemale" in your response i quit reading. way to use trans slurs dan.

you are full of fail.
Posted by jake on March 25, 2009 at 3:02 PM · Report
57
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rzdB5a4kLAo/Rf…
Posted by matt on March 25, 2009 at 3:05 PM · Report
58
Regarding herpes and HPV testing -- There is now a blood test that tests for the presence of herpes antibodies, which will tell you whether or not you have been exposed to it (it will not tell you if you ever have been or ever will be symptomatic, but that doesn't meant that you can't spread it if the test indicates that you have the antibodies). You do not have to have a sore present to be tested for HSV antibodies. (http://www.ashastd.org/herpes/herpes_lea… -- The IgG test is the accurate one.)

HPV tests can also be run for women without the presence of a wart; gynecologists routinely run HPV tests on material collected during a pap smear if it comes back abnormal, even if that abnormality is something as simple as mild inflammation. Unfortunately (to my knowledge) there is no comparable way to test men for HPV.

However, if RAGE went to a clinic or his doctor and asked for a full STI screening, they would be able to determine if he'd been exposed to herpes. And if a woman wanted a full STI screening, they would be able to determine if she'd been exposed to both herpes and HPV. This being on top of the other STIs that can be tested for.

I don't think it's unreasonable for Dan to advise a full STI screening for RAGE. It is certainly very, very unlikely that he got any STI from the type of sexual contact discussed here. However, his actions potentially put his girlfriend at risk and as such, he can prove his care for her (to himself) by being sure that he is not putting her at risk of an STI as a result of his actions. Doing so may even help him to assuage his guilt at this one-time infidelity.
Posted by m on March 25, 2009 at 3:37 PM · Report
59
Does anyone remember the title of that book Dan recommended in his podcast, (it was an illustrated book about people's embarrasing first times)? I've been listening to the podcasts, but I can't find it.
Posted by Hitch802 on March 25, 2009 at 3:41 PM · Report
60
Having logged a lot of scuba dives in my life, I can tell you it's not very hard to have sex 100 feet under water. I doubt it'd satisfy your wacky fin fetish -- probably best to do that while snorkeling or in the bath tub. But in case anyone is wondering, sex while scuba diving is an interesting experience - a bit cumbersome but enjoyable. I'd recommend you both be fairly accomplished divers (my wife and I are both scientific divers) and, of course, this is a warm-water sport -- you won't be banging underwater in Seattle.
Posted by AH on March 25, 2009 at 4:07 PM · Report
61
@Wurm,

Dan's not ultraliberal. He's very socially conservative in a twisted gay lapsed Catholic sort of way. In his mind, no relationship short of marriage really matters, which likely explains why he's so preoccupied with marriage equality. His relationship with his boyfriend will never truly "count" until they can be married under the law.
Posted by keshmeshi on March 25, 2009 at 4:09 PM · Report
62
WHy are people so skeptical about poster bitch? Is it any more farfetched than that someone would advertise for a rape fantasy so taht they could then press charges against the "rapist"?
Posted by whome on March 25, 2009 at 5:29 PM · Report
63
BOOB: I'm in my 50s and have been crossdressing for decades. Some girlfriends have found it sexy and some have run screaming in the other direction when I told them. You just never know.

The TG group I hang out with have much the same history. Some have incredibly accepting SO's, some stay married to wives who don't accept but allow them to dress in private, some get throw out of the house and go through really ugly divorces.

The thing is, if she doesn't accept your dressing, it's highly unlikely you're ever going to change her mind about it. You really do NOT want to be in a relationship where your SO dictates the terms of when, where, and how you can dress. Better to just make a clean break and find someone who will encourage and enjoy your fetish. Just make sure to always indulge whatever things she's interested in.

Posted by mbc on March 25, 2009 at 5:47 PM · Report
64
I used to believe in Dan's advice about relationships but I can't do it anymore. If people aren't wired for monogamy than we need to face it and get the hell over it. In the meantime, regardless of whether we are in monogamous relationships or not, we should act honorably. This means, don't cheat and lie about it.

I'm female, and hell yes I'm tempted to cheat. My god, people are beautiful. That said, I just DON'T. I want to, but I don't. Here's why. Because if I did, my boyfriend would dump my ass. And you know what? I respect him, and I CHOOSE having him, and his trust, and our wonderful relationships, over having the hook-ups my body craves. That's the trade I make. Otherwise, it's dishonest and manipulative. If I don't deserve his trust I'm not going to fucking take it. Why do I get to have my cake and eat it, too?

Because we have the convenient logic of "it would only hurt them." That is such bullshit. What we really mean (and as someone who has cheated and felt all that guilt) is "they will hurt and it's my fault, and they will think less of me, and will tell their friends, and they might even leave me, and nothing will ever be the same, and that would hurt ME." ME. ME. ME.

Well our partners have the right to their feelings and the right to make that choice (to hurt, to think less of us, to leave us). And if we're preventing them from having that choice they deserve (aka being manipulative, self-serving and weak), than at least we should be honest about the reasons we're doing that. And it's not because "it would only assuage my own guilt and hurt them" BS. No. It's because we're afraid of losing the trust of our partners, and what that would mean. I KNOW.

Now, that said, I'm hoping to ultimately find a MOSTLY monogamous relationship. I would LOVE for my ultimate relationship to be role-play, threesome and occasional ass on the side friendly. But it's going to be an honest relationship. I'm not going to manipulate and cheat the person who is supposed to be the closest to me. We're both entitled to our fantasies (to a degree... should a man with rape fantasies date a recent rape victim? maybe not...), but when either of us has someone else's cock in our mouths- the other will know about it. And we'll get through it like adults.
More...
Posted by adult on March 25, 2009 at 6:05 PM · Report
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And as a side note- you deserve to tell the truth, too. I don't think you should be as ashamed of cheating (everyone has desires along those lines, and I'm sick of the monogamy pressure) as lying. What if you're still together years from now? You're always going to have to lie to her face. And if you propose? You'll wonder if she would marry you if she knew the truth- that you're capable of doing this, and lying for years of her life- stealing her opportunity to make her own informed decisions about the direction of her life- her youth, her husband, the father of her children. Even if she wouldn't have minded the blow-job (I would have gotten over it, but that's me), the fact is that you didn't give her a choice to lead her own life, and that's going to eat away at you too... and may lead you to behave differently in the relationship, and to subtly undermine it.

Anyway, that's it from me.
Posted by adult2 on March 25, 2009 at 6:15 PM · Report
66
Oh, and FFF- don't worry about it too much. That's an awesome fetish. It's innocent, and funny, and fun. Much better than mine... I'd trade you in an instant! I'd also trade your fetish with my bf's more average obsession with anal- I would SO much rather put on a pair of flippers! And I would only be amused and delighted to indulge if my BF had your fetish. Good luck.
Posted by adult on March 25, 2009 at 6:25 PM · Report
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I really like your articles Dan, but the use of "shemale" is pretty offensive to me. Just about any term is better.
Posted by Hurt Transwoman on March 25, 2009 at 7:01 PM · Report
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Thanks for your surprisingly supportive posts, everybody! I'm surprised people are not grossed out by a scuba-gear fetish, but mostly just mildly amused. It really is harmless and I'm definitely not into any scary underwater bondage thing. I do have a C-card and hope to do more diving in the future, but I'll also take Dan's advice to heart and try to find a nice open-minded GGG woman who's not necessarily a scuba diva.

Fin Fun Fan

P.S. With genetic engineering a reality, maybe Dan will fulfill his dream some day soon of finding himself a hot 'n' soapy centaur...
Posted by Fin Fun Fan on March 25, 2009 at 7:11 PM · Report
69
"There is a small subculture devoted to scuba fetishism on the internet, but it's a total sausage/snorkel fest."

Is there a subculture devoted to ANY fetish that isn't a total sausage fest?
Posted by JD on March 25, 2009 at 7:39 PM · Report
70
"Either your ex was honestly threatened by your crossdressing, BOOB, or she's doing what a lot of us do when a seemingly decent relationship comes to shit for no good reason: She's looking for an explanation, and your crossdressing is the low-hanging fruit."

*

Nice line about the low-hanging fruit. I'm placing my bet, though, on his ex being threatened. While men are comfortable with women dressing in traditional male clothes, I think few women are comfortable with men dressing in traditional female clothes.

It's not just in clothing either. I think that women maintain a much more narrow and rigid view of masculinity than men do with femininity.
Posted by JD on March 25, 2009 at 7:49 PM · Report
71
Spank Bank. Awesome.

See? I just can't learn this kind of phrase anywhere else.
Posted by Chaon on March 25, 2009 at 7:51 PM · Report
72
Dan's "you're not married yet" comment makes total sense. Look back at the letter : RAGE referred to the person he cheated on as his "girlfriend of a year". There's no indication that these people have committed themselves to each other in a really serious way - he doesn't even suggest that they are living together. They very well could be a couple who are just still "dating".

Yeah, it sucks to cheat and it sucks to be cheated on. But Dan is spot on : get it out of your system before you actually commit to someone (either in legal marriage or mutual agreement of the commitment).

So, get that "marriage isn't everything" chip off your shoulder (the term 'marriage' can be used symbolically instead of literally, people) and get off Dan's back (unless he consents to you being there).
Posted by dan's back on March 25, 2009 at 8:07 PM · Report
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@ olympia1970: I sort of knew there was no way for me to express what I wanted to say without causing you annoyance, and for that I apologize. Please allow me to try and clarify what my concern was:

If one man says "I like women who are conventionally feminine: Wear make-up, wear dresses, enjoy baking," there's nothing wrong with it, that's just his taste. But if all men or most men in a population say that, there's something more going on. They are internalizing some sort of cultural standard, and in doing so are putting unrealistic pressure on all women to be conventionally feminine.

It is my suspicion that most women in our society want conventionally masculine men. If you wouldn't date a cross-dresser, certainly that's your taste. But what does it mean if most women feel that way? Where is the line between the tastes of individuals and the norms of a society?

A few months ago, someone I know came out as trans. On hearing about the difficulty this person had in finding someone to date, I asked myself if I would date an FTM. My first gut reaction was "Ew, no, an FTM isn't a *real* man." But where did this idea come from? Who decided what a *real* man was?

I certainly don't imagine that I can offer any meaningful answers to any of these questions, but I do think there is value in each of us considering them. It would be naive of anyone to say that we live in some sort of post-sexist society, as it would be for any one of us to claim to be perfect egalitarians. Once again, I didn't mean to sound aggressive or ignorant or a lazy post-reader, but I think that we all need to ask ourselves where our ideas of acceptable masculinity/femininity come from.
Posted by Elf on March 25, 2009 at 8:19 PM · Report
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Yvette, Thomas Beatie isn't intersexed. He's transsexual. And yes, gay men would date transsexual men--so says Buck Angel.

Maybe some intersexed person out there could tell us whether they've ever dated a gay man?
Posted by AB on March 25, 2009 at 8:24 PM · Report
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Elf: I completely understand what you were getting at. Maybe if I explained my own experience, my perspective would make more sense. I dated a very fem (but completely hetero) guy for six years, and although he was a fun companion, good friend, and interesting person, his femininity really turned me off (he liked to wear his hair in a bun, wear eye makeup and was very thin and waif-like). In the end, it was a major factor in our breakup.

The truth is that I longed for a masculine (not macho) guy. I don't think it's because of what society told me, because I'm very open and accepting of other people's choices and lifestyles. It was just part of me. I like "manly" men. Shortly after I broke up with my ex, I met one and married him and I couldn't be happier. We've been together seven years, and he still does it for me. But I wasted many years with someone who turned me off, in part because I wanted to believe that passionate attraction didn't matter in the long run, and that overall compatibility was more important. Well, it does and it isn't. My hesitation wasn't fair to my ex, and I regret it now. I should have been true to myself all along, and left the relationship when I first recognized the problem.

I honestly believe that we are hardwired to be attracted to certain types of people, be they folks of the same gender, David Bowie waifs, Hulk Hogan behemoths, or what have you. Certainly what we define as masculine and feminine is influenced by our culture to some degree, but a lot of it isn't. After all, most gay men aren't into men who dress like women either. A lot of them want very rugged, masculine appearing men because, well, they dig men. I don't think examining stereotypes will do much to change that. But I know you mean well, I just don't agree that being turned off by cross dressers or feminine men is sexist.
More...
Posted by olympia1970 on March 25, 2009 at 9:48 PM · Report
76
I think that if I were approached by a person who wanted to be "raped" by someone whom she did not know, I would arrange a meeting between her and a friend who could interview her and confirm her consent while I watched from a discreet distance.
It would also give me time to asses whether I wanted to bother setting up a scene that was so damn intricate and complicated..not just your average tie 'em up and beat 'em thing there...
I would probably also want to have it in writing in pretty explicit "from - til" temporal terms with specific conditions for initiating the scene (red pumps with open-toes?--not ready.. grimy tevas?--hot to trot...or something like that) that would allow the person to have control over when the scene was initiated. Hell, I might even draw up a form that she had to fill in, print out, sign and then submit to my meeting proxy, just to have it in writing.

Hard to be too careful with something like being accused of rape and completely unforgivable to be the proxy rapist for some asshole because of a failure to verify intent on the part of the "victim"...but with all that in the bag... go for it.
Posted by Mayhem on March 26, 2009 at 4:17 AM · Report
77
olympia and elf are my current favorite danfans for actually getting past kneejerk responses and having a conversation. wow. almost like this isn't the internet.
Posted by douse the flames on March 26, 2009 at 5:01 AM · Report
78
and for people who are offended by "shemale" .... I expect you're right, Dan would probably know better, but I sure didn't. I see ads in papers all the time for shemales by shemales about shemales.

My "clueless but willing to learn" advice? Don't pull out the nigger thing. That word nigger has such an evil shameful history and sets off so many instant deep-set responses you at once go into Godwin. Hitting the Hitler mode before the conversation even starts.

Yelling at people and lashing out for using a term that seems pretty common is probably just going to make them roll their eyes. If you are truly insulted by the term, it's up to you to explain it without getting all steamy. The world can change-- and should--but self-righteous pissiness doesn't help.

Has got to feel good, no doubt about that, it definitely doesn't help.
Posted by douse the flames on March 26, 2009 at 5:12 AM · Report
79
Excellent advice, Dan. I appreciate the bonus get an STI check to RAGE. I think all your "keep the cheating on the down low" advice should be accompanied by this. Way to go.
Posted by well said. on March 26, 2009 at 5:54 AM · Report
80
FFF, I'm such a vanilla girl that Dan should probably ban me from this site. However, even I think that your fin fun fantasy is absolutely adorable. I would don my fins happily, provided that you remembered to eventually move upward from the fins. In the meantime, I would fantasize about beautiful beaches, endless stretches of ocean and wonderful, sensual, stress free days and nights.(This is sounding so good, I'd like to ask my dentist if I could wear fins during my next gum surgery.) Just tell the prospective gf that you'll be taking her away on vacation and I bet she'll say yes. Sweet and charming.
Posted by babette on March 26, 2009 at 6:19 AM · Report
81
I think it is great we are learning here not to say shemale. I personally want to be more aware of trans issues, especially in a world where Employment nondiscrimination should be extended to transpeople, but other queer people think it limits our legitimate cause to include the T in GLBT.

Unrelated, my ex was intersexed, and closeted, and it became a secret we had to keep. It made her less open to intimacy, and closeted our relationship. I would love to hear more in savage love from intersexed individuals and the folks who love them
Posted by frizzle on March 26, 2009 at 7:32 AM · Report
82
Bravo, GG1000!
Posted by Richard on March 26, 2009 at 8:34 AM · Report
83
I had expected someone to post something about the George Weber story. He's a radio personality in NYC that was killed last weekend after meeting someone through a craigslist ad asking for rough sex, since it's kind of related to the Rape Date topic.
Posted by G-Guy on March 26, 2009 at 9:37 AM · Report
84
Douse the flames: The example someone used earlier of "fudgepacker" for gay men as equivalent to "shemale" for transwomen seems pretty on target for me. The "nigger" comparison might not seem reasonable to you (and frankly, it may be a bit much), but it's not nearly as off base as you seem to think it is. You seem awfully quick to offer judgment on how severe or insulting the term is even after admitting that you have no knowledge of the subject.

"Shemale" isn't a term I've seen much outside of a prostitution/porn context, but widely used or not the connotations are really ugly.

As much as I think some of the angry responses are counterproductive, it's hard for me not to empathize. I've taken an incredible amount of shit for being who I am, and in terms of cultural acceptance I think transsexuals are still a good decade or so behind homosexuals.

Not sure about where you are, but at least around here "she's a man!" is a pretty common punchline, even from people who consider themselves open minded or accepting. These are the same people who would immediately reprimand someone for saying "that's gay". I'm just disappointed to see it used here. Dan should know better.
Posted by Hurt Transwoman on March 26, 2009 at 9:53 AM · Report
85
Just to follow up to my last comment: Common usage (which I don't even think applies unless you're talking about porn) is hardly an excuse. As horrible a word as it is "nigger" was incredibly widely used, and that did nothing to reduce the ugliness of the word. To the contrary, I think you could argue it made it worse!
Posted by Hurt Transwoman on March 26, 2009 at 9:55 AM · Report
86
Um...maybe I am also "wasting the medical industry's time" when I get complete STI screening after every time I have a new partner, particularly one I don't know very well, because even if someone tells me they are clean, people lie or don't know they have something. I'm not saying I distrust everyone, or that I'm not careful, only that it can't hurt.

Both men and women can get a blood test for HPV whether there are sores or not which will show not only the presence of the virus, but whether it is high-risk or low-risk. Ditto herpes. I have had both tests; you have to ask for the "HPV blood test" and the "herpes blood test". Check with your insurance; my insurance claimed they wouldn't cover the HPV blood test (despite it being a follow-up ordered by the doctor after two abnormal Paps) because I was under 30.

For a list of condom use, effectiveness, and STI transmission: http://www.cdc.gov/condomeffectiveness/l…
Posted by safadancer on March 26, 2009 at 10:31 AM · Report
87
Dear Dan Savage, could you please refrain from using the word "shemale"? Many trans folk find it horribly offensive. Thank you.
Posted by Mordant C. on March 26, 2009 at 10:36 AM · Report
88
If anyone has a centaur fetish, they can always find hot stuff at deviantart.com. (You could probably commission something as well.) Real-life fantasies probably take one uncomfortably close to "Zoo" territory (and we know how THAT turned out); maybe someone could find a partner willing to wear horsehair-covered chaps or somesuch.
Posted by Dback on March 26, 2009 at 11:05 AM · Report
89
For FFF: how about learning to SCUBA dive? Take a class; you'll meet all kinds of chicks in wetsuits and maybe one of them will give your wetsuit fetish a try.
Posted by xian on March 26, 2009 at 11:32 AM · Report
90
I was on the swim team in high school, and have always loved the water. Many little girls dream of being mermaids. I have to believe that several of them grow up to become women like me who really enjoy swimming and water. While it has never been a sexual fantasy for me, I don't think I would have any problem incorporating Fins into sex play, especially if we could do it in the shower/bath/pool or on the beach!

FFF- If you make sure that she likes swimming/SCUBA or likes to shower together, you probably won't even have to pony up the cash to take her to Hawaii at 3months. Your fetish is sweet.
Posted by anon@FFF on March 26, 2009 at 12:01 PM · Report
91
TRONTR should also have the 'Rapee' Go to a public place and he should call her on her cell, He could watch her answer the phone and talk with him. That way he would know for sure that the person he was rapeing was the person that wanted to be raped. Unless she had an evil twin of course.
Posted by Cliff on March 26, 2009 at 2:44 PM · Report
92
FFF girl on girl sex wearing fins while a few hundred yards off shore in semi-tropical hawaiian water _rocks._

ahem... just sayin'

Posted by lexy-lou on March 26, 2009 at 3:11 PM · Report
93
It's probably less important that she enjoys scuba gear than that she enjoys a bit of adventure in the bedroom. So FFF, remember also to be as GGG as the partner you seek. Put her in a fin-friendly state of mind by investigating and attending to her fantasies, vanilla or not. To me, flipper-sex for spankings would be a rather nice trade.
Posted by peachy on March 26, 2009 at 3:34 PM · Report
94
yeah now that I read what I wrote I see the tone is unintentionally snotty, which is funny because I wanted to point out that being snotty doesn't help any cause. Heh.

Posted by douse the flames on March 26, 2009 at 4:00 PM · Report
95
I think fin fan is a classic example of a situation where, as you always say, he should avoid approaching his fetish as "weird" or "unfortunate," but instead as a "here's this fun thing you get to do while you're with me!"

I'm a vanilla girl, and if my boyfriend randomly said "hey, you'd look hot in swim fins!" my response would likely be "haha, okay! what color?" Seriously, swim fins should not be approached as a big deal. Anyone who finds that fetish creepy, especially coupled with FF's backstory, must have no imagination!
Posted by Neptune on March 26, 2009 at 5:22 PM · Report
96
I have the cutest swim fin shoes -- they're blue. I love them. Wear them all the time in the water if I could (some pools have restrictions). Lots of swimmers have them. Join a pool club. Buy a pair, strike up a conversation, and porpoise kick away. XOXOXO, FFF and best of luck
Posted by Penelope on March 26, 2009 at 6:33 PM · Report
97
Another advantage of Swim fins vs standard fetish ladies' shoes: those flat flippers have to feel better running up the backs of your calves than say, spike heels.
Posted by my name here on March 26, 2009 at 7:01 PM · Report
98
olympia1970: "I honestly believe that we are hardwired to be attracted to certain types of people, be they folks of the same gender, David Bowie waifs, Hulk Hogan behemoths, or what have you. Certainly what we define as masculine and feminine is influenced by our culture to some degree, but a lot of it isn't. After all, most gay men aren't into men who dress like women either. A lot of them want very rugged, masculine appearing men because, well, they dig men. I don't think examining stereotypes will do much to change that. But I know you mean well, I just don't agree that being turned off by cross dressers or feminine men is sexist."

Well said. You can also say that what we define as attractive and not attractive is influenced by our culture to some degree, but a lot (I would argue most) of it isn't. Does anyone believe that if man was locked in a closet until he was 30 and never saw any women, and then he was let out and saw Kate Beckinsale and Andrea Dworkin standing side-by-side, he'd find them equally attractive because he hadn't been "influenced by the media?"

I agree with you that being turned off by cross dressers or feminine men (or masculine women) isn't "sexist." But we need to take that a step further and say that being turned off by (or being turned on by) a person's looks isn't "shallow" (a word most frequently hurled at men by women.) Being shallow is when you ONLY care about looks, when you have no interest whatsoever in going deeper, in getting to know the person under the skin. But being attracted to certain types of people isn't shallow.

Posted by JD on March 26, 2009 at 7:43 PM · Report
99
One of the things I always find interesting is that all women are cross dressers and that almost all women and almost all men cannot comprehend this. If it's common, it's accepted. If it's accepted, it's normal. If it's normal, it's right. If not, then someone can beat you to death and be applauded by everyone. Go figga.
Posted by AmNomyNous Lexicdis on March 26, 2009 at 7:47 PM · Report
100
I don't find fins erotic at all, but I would definitely wear them if requested by my horny partner, and I'm sure that the horny partner's reaction would be enough to make the whole thing pretty sexy. So don't worry about it. Plenty of women will be game for something as tame as fins.
Posted by Lex Tremendae on March 26, 2009 at 9:01 PM · Report
101
Shemale, Dan? Come on.
Posted by JC on March 26, 2009 at 10:52 PM · Report
102
If "shemale" is verboten, what's the preferred term?
Posted by Call Me Curious on March 27, 2009 at 7:33 AM · Report
103
Dan, really. Please lose the word "shemale" for good. Not only is it offensive, but it gives me really bad mental images.

BTW, I am a cisgendered female who has several friends who are transwomen. I am not transphobic.
Posted by Cissy on March 27, 2009 at 7:54 AM · Report
104
@ Call Me Curious:

The preferred term as I understand it is "transwoman."

If anyone from the trans community has a term that is better, please let me know.
Posted by Cissy on March 27, 2009 at 7:56 AM · Report
105
I'd be into FFF, even tho I have never been scuba diving. My tits would look GREAT in zero gravity! I LOVE the latex/scuba suit. Pay for my plane ticket to Maui, baby, and it's ON! Unless, of course, you are short, 350 lbs, really hairy, have a tiny cock, and are bald. And not well-off. Why does everyone assume/imagine these questions come from attractive people we see in ads? Ever cruise adultfriendfinder? or alt dot com? Ugh!
Posted by PicturePerfectNot on March 27, 2009 at 8:46 AM · Report
106
JD: "But we need to take that a step further and say that being turned off by (or being turned on by) a person's looks isn't "shallow" (a word most frequently hurled at men by women.) Being shallow is when you ONLY care about looks, when you have no interest whatsoever in going deeper, in getting to know the person under the skin. But being attracted to certain types of people isn't shallow."

I completely agree. Too many people remain in relationships with folks who they aren't attracted to because they feel that it is shallow to leave based on that reason. But lack of attraction only leads to misery within relationships. The partner who feels no attraction denies his/herself one of the basic joys of a relationship, and the other partner has the wretched experience of feeling unattractive all the time. It's simply not fair, and no amount of social deconstruction will change it.

Being honest with one's self about sexual attraction strikes me as the antithesis of shallowness. And I think it's very important that people differentiate between discrimination that is wrong, such as discrimination in employment and housing, or even how we treat people we meet on street, and our right to be extremely discriminate when it comes to who we choose to sleep with. These are two entirely different things, but some people confuse them.

Posted by olympia1970 on March 27, 2009 at 9:06 AM · Report
107
Many men who SCUBA have underwater sex with their girlfriends, and single men who scuba are always excited to meet women who dive. The only thing that they may or may not have been into was the fins. It's just sex with more gear. No big deal.
Posted by ndn on March 27, 2009 at 9:32 AM · Report
108
Why do you have to keep saying "shemale" when you should know it's insulting? For that matter, why do you keep pretending to know anything about trans people? Why can't you stick to answering things about married white gay men and leave the rest of us out of it?
Posted by paige on March 27, 2009 at 11:26 AM · Report
109
Ok, now I'm curious. I've heard of having sex in the tub or in a pool, but how exactly would the mechanics of scuba sex work? Don't you have to have the suit on the whole time, or am I just very misinformed about scuba diving?

As someone very fascinated by the sources of certain out-of-left-field kinks (fins is the epitome of this... i don't mean freaky or bizarre but just something that it would never have occurred to me but i would be up for it if the guy dug it) this page here http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Ma… makes for verrry entertaining reading.

And oh god why does that centaur have to be so hot?
Posted by MySpoonIsTooBig on March 27, 2009 at 11:28 AM · Report
110
FFF, it's totally doable... you could build a whole vacation around it! you can do a weekend at a hotel with a pool... Or book a B&B with a pool or hottub.

And as another female poster said, it seems completely wholesome. Just buy a house with a pool and you're set for life!
Posted by kk on March 27, 2009 at 12:04 PM · Report
111
you know, underwater sex is just not practical...especially for a female. I've done it in a lake and ended up with an infection. I've done it in the ocean and chaffed horribly. The water washes away the lube. I think it's more practical to have lots of touching and sucking in the water, and then do the deed on the beach--flippers and all.
Posted by k on March 27, 2009 at 12:07 PM · Report
112
That Old Spice centaur is HOT, HOT, HOT!!!!
Posted by thatdogguy on March 27, 2009 at 1:22 PM · Report
113
FFF: The people who keep advising you to join a diving club are out of their minds.
Read the question, people – he’s looking for a woman who is into wearing scuba gear SEXUALLY. If he ever wants to find someone who will indulge him (which, obviously, will be super-easy) he needs to start off by being honest about his kink. If he likes TO DIVE, then joining a club is great, but doing so because he gets off on diving gear is skeezy and dishonest and very unlikely to get him anywhere.
Posted by SpoonyBard on March 27, 2009 at 2:22 PM · Report
114
OK, I get that many STDs can be transmitted even with condom use, but I don't get why you advise no sex for three months (as I understand what you said.) I've never seen or heard you advise that people wait three months and a test result between sex partners (just that they use protection), and though I don't recall you specifically addressing it, it seems like something you wouldn't really deem completely necessary.
Posted by yournamehere on March 27, 2009 at 3:57 PM · Report
115
Honestly Dan, I know you rightfully want to differentiate between gay and tranny-lover, but saying that blowing a guy with a dress on means you are definitely a straight male is a little more than absurd. You honestly believe gay men NEVER have sexual contact with cross dressers?
Posted by Sirus on March 27, 2009 at 4:16 PM · Report
116
I had protected sex while married with a stranger to relief stress. A few days later my vulva started itching, and my gyn verified that I had contracted genital herpes. The sex was not worth the breakup of my marriage, and having to disclose to any future partners that I have an STD. I totally support Dan's advise to RAGE.
Posted by sandy on March 27, 2009 at 8:33 PM · Report
117
yournamehere,
Dan's no sex advice to RAGE was because RAGE is in a committed relationship, in which he and his partner have expectations of monogamy. Back in the day they likely exchanged test results and discussed the risks and are now operating under the assumption that nothing has changed (and are also likely having unprotected sex). If something has changed, he owes it to his partner to bring it up or not expose his partner to a risk she didn't agree to or have knowledge of. It's a difference between the implicit understandings of hook-ups vs. a relationship. People have the right to measure the risks for themselves, not have the person they trust decide for them. I know a man whose girlfriend cheated on him, didn't tell him, and they soon both came down with herpes. Even if it shouldn't have been- in this culture- his life was changed from then on.
Posted by response on March 28, 2009 at 5:36 PM · Report
118
OMG I so want to sleep with that centaur!
Posted by David on March 28, 2009 at 7:00 PM · Report
119
Is the ass goo that comes out of the butt fukee's asshole called santorum? Was it named after named after the anti butt sex congressman rick santorum?
Posted by sir dick on March 29, 2009 at 4:36 PM · Report
120
To RAGE, I think that there are fantasies that belong to the fantasy world and not to be performed. Watching porn makes us horny but not everything we watch is meant to be practiced. In fact, some things we fantasize about are not going to be fun when we try them. Many times the actual reality is not as hot as we thought it would be. Perhaps your thing with TS is just one of those things that are better to leave for the imagination.

Now, regarding sexual orientation, I believe there are many stages 'in between', many types of bisexualities. Nobody is pure straight or pure gay or pure bi or all the other 'in betweens'. Not even Dan.

Getting off in front of TS porn is just one degree off 100% straight, no big deal. I believe Dan's sort of right when he says that it's just a guy's and not gay's thing, although I cannot testify. What I do know is that, despite all the comments in this board, there has been none of a gay man giving testimony about his fantasy with transsexuals, but there have been several transsexuals who have complained about the improper use of the word 'shemale'. The statistics work in favor of Dan's thesis.

In the end, the exciting part is to see a woman's body with a man's dick: I think the contradiction is what's exciting. Isn't it? However, in order for the fantasy to work, she should be as beautiful as possible. Perhaps your TS of choice was not as gorgeous as they look on the Internet...

Sorry about the bad experience, but remember to regret the experience, not your desires.
Posted by juan on March 29, 2009 at 8:30 PM · Report
121
Does anyone really believe this guy and his TS prostitute REALLY both had condoms on during their entire encounter? It's possible, but I doubt it. I sense Dan does, too.

Get checked, guy.
Posted by Kiki on March 29, 2009 at 9:00 PM · Report
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It's not like swim fins are so insanely uncomfortable, painful or gross. It's a minor thing. It doesn't do anything for me personally, but if my lover told me tomorrow that she wanted to, I would happily oblige.

I'm sure any lover of this guy would as well.
Posted by Jud on March 30, 2009 at 9:25 AM · Report
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It's never okay to not tell your partner if/when you cheated on them - advice to the contrary is immoral and flat-out disgusting.
Posted by cailin_t on March 30, 2009 at 11:24 AM · Report
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To "yournamehere" - 3 month waiting period would be the time it potentially would take to test positive for HIV.
Posted by cailin_t on March 30, 2009 at 11:27 AM · Report
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@Hitch802 - the illustrated first time book you want is called 'The Virgin Project'. They have some sample pages at:

http://www.thevirginproject.com/

Posted by Antoinette on March 30, 2009 at 3:13 PM · Report
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Right on, Olympia1970, on cross-dressing (lighten UP, Elf! She said "I", for corn sake!).

I, too, am not condemning crossdressing; I'm just not into it, myself. For those of you who are, more power to ya.

Good call, Dan---BOOB could probably benefit by getting himself a new girlfriend who is into crossdressing. Many women out there are.
Posted by auntie grizelda on March 31, 2009 at 3:15 AM · Report
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To cailin_t:
I’m probably not going to change your mind, but I think it’s naïve to say that anyone who cheats, without exception, should tell his or her partner. Understand that my parents divorced because one of them cheated – I know what it can do to a relationship. Infidelity is a powerfully destructive force, and if you’ve agreed on monogamy, then it probably means that something is wrong in the relationship. Sometimes it means that the relationship needs to end.
But human beings make mistakes. If the cheater is serious about maintaining the relationship – and serious about addressing whatever drove him or her to cheat in the first place – then revealing the infidelity could very well do more harm than good. Some people really do cheat once and never do it again, and it’s not always worth it to put the other person through a lot of grief and anxiety just to uphold some ideal of complete transparency. Adults understand this.
Posted by SpoonyBard on March 31, 2009 at 8:24 AM · Report
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Although I'm typically all for being PC and dancing around on eggshells to avoid hurting feelings...do we really have to extend that courtesy to sex workers? A chick-with-a-dick who rents it out to closeted frat boys does not equate with the nice, trans next door who just wants to live their life as theri chosen gender.

So, Shemale away!

Also...where from comes this notion that Dan Savage is Politically Correct? I think he takes great joy in NOT being politically correct.
Posted by Kinky Cynic on March 31, 2009 at 11:26 AM · Report
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I admit, I have a thing for the Old Spice Centaur. It got a whole lot worse when I went to this website--http://itstwothings.oldspice.com/doubleimpact/
Posted by Adam on March 31, 2009 at 12:14 PM · Report
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@kinky cynic:
And what if the 'nice trans next door' is also a sex worker? Sex workers are people too...and while you may disagree with their choices (and unless you know the reasons behind those choices, it's really unfair to condemn them), that's no reason to use deeply offensive language. That's not over-done political correctness, that's being a decent human being.

And you may want to keep in mind, as well, that until the societal pressures against trans people go away, many transwomen will find themselves pushed into prostitution in order to make ends meet in a world that doesn't allow them many other job opportunities.
Posted by LBookWorm on March 31, 2009 at 4:14 PM · Report
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Dan, thank you so much for the advice you gave on your podcast to the woman who's husband is in love with another woman!
Regarding RAGE I totally agree with Wurm's statement:
Marriage is totally irrelevant to a committed relationship. If you're in a commited monogamous relationship, its cheating no matter what, the lack of a piece of paper or a ring doesn't make the cheating "better" or acceptable. Amazing how even american ultra-libs can be that conservative!!!!
Posted by Europegirl on March 31, 2009 at 4:24 PM · Report
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FFF - I don't know you, and have no plans to get involved with a stranger BUT -
I love the way fins feel. If I were your girlfriend, I'd have no problem sharing your fetish. I think it's pretty unusual, but not in any way unapleaing. Could be rather fun. Relax.
Posted by lyra on March 31, 2009 at 4:37 PM · Report
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The fins aren't that weird. I mean, I wanted my guy to dress up like a fireman, so why not me in fins? I wore high heels to bed...why not fins? I could totally get down with that under-the-sea thing. There's some hot, hot in the water porn out there...

Hell, I think it would be a good idea to watch that Jacqueline Bisset movie WITH your lady!
Posted by carlita on April 1, 2009 at 10:32 AM · Report
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Dan, what the heck is up with your column? How come there is NEVER a question for regular heterosexual couples, ones that aren't keeping semen in frozen plastic baggies and eating it?
Posted by Sara on April 1, 2009 at 4:59 PM · Report
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JD said: "I think that women maintain a much more narrow and rigid view of masculinity than men do with femininity."

I agree, but how much of that is because mainstream male culture holds to the rigidity? After all, it was a few bold *women* who started wearing pants, and fought for all those traditionally male rights and priviledges. They didn't wait for men to push them to go for it.

Why aren't men as gutsy as women in fighting to expand the idea of the "masculine?"

Part of the problem for men is that in nature, woman's basic role is so dramatically evident. Maleness became: "whatever isn't female".

In response to feeling inconsequential, men have had to spend a lot of time and effort creating social roles that are overly dramatic and "essential" in response to this - the main reason men rule in religions, for example and why they fight so hard to hold onto male-only venues.

Getting back to the point at hand, I think this means that for a lot of men, blurring the masculine towards the feminine threatens male social standing and certainly the idea that men should be dominant socially.
Posted by Xweetie on April 2, 2009 at 11:00 AM · Report
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dear "kinky critic"

you're an A grade choad.

yours,

Cyd
Posted by Cyd on April 3, 2009 at 2:18 AM · Report
137
how is it that one can identify as "straight" when with a chick with a dick (sorry to be blunt, but really wanted to stress that whole "dick" thing)?
Posted by SunShyne on April 7, 2009 at 3:56 PM · Report
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i took your advice, dan. i found a new girlfriend. one who completely okay with my crossdressing. thanks for the advice, it really helped.
Posted by BOOB on April 8, 2009 at 7:19 AM · Report
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Dirty boy, the point FFF was making that it is difficult finding a soulmate with the same interests, not that he has a specific fetish.
Posted by Bootslevis on April 9, 2009 at 5:11 AM · Report
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Starbright, GG1000, you are soooo right. For the right guy, swim fins (or any number of other things) wouldn't be a problem at all! And then he'd have to hear about MY quirks!
Posted by Juicy Fruit on April 9, 2009 at 2:07 PM · Report
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Ask.com is retarded. It's not like adding an F onto every masculine word turns it feminine. Emasculation would become efemination.
Posted by rox on April 22, 2009 at 1:33 PM · Report
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Sorry, Dan, but I think you're off-base in your advice to RAGE. Lots of gay or bi guys in the very early stages of waking up to their orientation see chicks-with-dicks as a gateway drug, especially if they have acutely internalised homophobia.

On the one hand, they can say that they were technically having sex with a woman, while on the other hand they get to play with a dick. At least two bi guys I know started off their queer careers browsing shemale porn online before working up to the more traditional penis-owning individuals.
Posted by DexX on April 27, 2009 at 11:12 PM · Report
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Dan's Comments about how fetishes are formed got me thinking. I wonder how many young men coming of age with feeling towards other men spent their youths looking at pictures & reading about a certain hairy, cigar chomping, well muscled, motorcycle riding, rapidly healing X-Man. How many bear fetishists are actually looking for a Wolverine? Mr. Jackman has some large boots to fill.
Posted by Vic on June 17, 2009 at 9:55 PM · Report
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Looking at the Old Spice centaur on YouTube, I notice the manly stud has no horsely wang below.

Is that a she-mare, or a transtallion?
Posted by Lute on August 14, 2009 at 3:59 PM · Report
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My thoughts on the whole "it's sexist that women can wear men's clothes but men can't wear women's clothes" debate: My idea of why women wanted to wear men's clothing in the first place wasn't about fashion (or a desire to feel masculine)--it was a practical decision. They wanted the freedom of movement that came with not having to wear corsets, or heels, or whatever (that's why I wear pants!). Note that you rarely see women wearing tuxedos--probably because they aren't more practical than women's clothing. And if a woman did walk around wearing a tuxedo? Everyone would think it was a little odd. I have a hard time believing that the kind of cross-dressing discussed here is done for a desire to wear clothes that allow more freedom of movement.

Not that I have anything against cross-dressing. It's just that it's not some kind of culturally ingrained sexism directed at men (culturally ingrained sexism, sure! But only directed at men? Nuh-uh.)

So don't worry! Don't stress! We're all equally discriminated against.
Posted by i'm_just_sayin' on September 14, 2009 at 1:26 AM · Report

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