Savage Love Podcast
Check out the all new Savage Lovecast site!
Got a question for Dan Savage?
Call the Savage Love Podcast at 206-201-2720
or email Dan at mail@savagelove.net.
Savage Love Archives
-
May 15
Shorties -
May 8
Reading Comprehension Fail -
May 1
Move On -
Apr 24
No Problem -
Apr 17
Dick Holes
More from Dan Savage
-
There Are No Atheists In Foxholes
-
SL Letter of the Day: Have You Ever Heard of...?
-
Senate Democrats Fuck Over Bi-National Gay Couples...
-
Rightwing Anti-Gay French Activist Commits Suicide at Notre Dame Cathedral
-
SL Letter of the Day: Did You Think I Was Going To Tell You Not To Come Out? (PLUS: Help Free Kate!)
Books by Dan Savage
American Savage
It Gets Better: Coming Out, Overcoming Bullying, and Creating a Life Worth Living
The Commitment: Love, Sex, Marriage, and My Family
Things I've Learned from Women Who've Dumped Me
Skipping Towards Gomorrah
The Kid: What Happened After My Boyfriend and I Decided to Go Get Pregnant
Savage Links
- Babeland
- Fleshbot
- Good Vibrations
- Joe Newton/Savage Illustrations
- Planned Parenthood
- Spreading Santorum
- Planned Parenthood's Teen Wire
- Kinsey Confidential
- Carnal Nation
- Tiny Nibbles
Want a Second Opinion?
Contact Dan Savage
Savage on YouTube
Loading...
Burned
September 5, 2012
+ Enlarge this Image
Joe Newton
I have been in a long-term relationship with a wonderful woman who doesn't have a lot of people she socializes with in her daily life. She is a Burning Man person and converses online with other "burners." I confronted her when I realized she was discussing the ups and downs of our relationship in a public online forum. She still hung out on that forum, but her presence diminished. I assumed she was socializing in private e-mails. A few months later, I discovered that she was actually moderating a different forum. I deleted the site from my history and decided to avoid it. Last week, while she was at Burning Man, I checked out the forum she moderates, even though I knew I shouldn't have. What I found was that she never mentions having a boyfriend, even when it might be relevant to a discussion. I was never mentioned, not even in passing. I don't mind that guys compliment her, and I understand the benefits of positive attention from the opposite sex. If she came to me and told me that is what she was seeking and that it was chaste, I would be fine with it as long as she made that clear to other forum members.
We are both attractive, and I get attention at times from other women. I often mention that I have a girlfriend to avoid someone getting the wrong idea. I also feel like she saves the spontaneous, uninhibited, and adventurous part of herself for these people at Burning Man. Does it sound like she is cheating emotionally? How can I bring this subject up in a way that doesn't make me seem like just more of a depressing part of her life? I don't want her to lose her outlet, but I feel like she is not showing me the respect one should show a partner of 10-plus years.
Her Burning Man
I don't want to alarm you unnecessarily, HBM, but partnered people who go to Burning Man sans partner are typically planning to cheat cheat, not cheat emote. Casual straight sex, like sandy ass cracks and seeing my friend Eric naked, is a huge part of the Burning Man "experience."
But the kind of straight guy who goes to Burning Man for casual sex—and the art and the experience and the transcendence—doesn't give a shit if the girls he fucks have boyfriends back home. Or in the next tent. Your girlfriend could post your picture to Burning Man forums, mention you in every face-to-face conversation she has, and wear a shirt with your picture on it everywhere she goes on the playa, HBM, and she'd still find plenty of guys willing to fuck her brains out.
Mentioning you in online forums, not mentioning you in online forums—neither action is proof that she plans to cheat or not cheat. So I'm sitting here racking my brain trying to come up with some other reason why your girlfriend might not have mentioned you in an online Burning Man forum that she moderates.
Thinking, thinking, thinking.
Hey! Maybe it's because the last time you caught her talking about you and your relationship in a public online forum, YOU BLEW THE FUCK UP AT HER. Remember? You were angry then because she was talking about you on the interwebs. And you're angry now that she isn't talking about you on the interwebs.
If you're looking for a reason why your girlfriend feels inhibited around you, HBM, maybe it's the mixed signals. She gets in trouble for talking about you; she gets in trouble for not talking about you. If your girlfriend feels like she's going to be in trouble with you no matter what she does, HBM, then she's going to feel inhibited around you. And she's going to err on the side of sharing less of what she does with you.
When your girlfriend gets back from Burning Man, HBM, here's what I think you should say: "I realize this makes me sound crazy, and maybe I am crazy. But remember when I was upset about you talking about me—about us—in that public online forum? Well, I stumbled on another online forum and you weren't talking about me. And that upset me, too."
Acknowledge your insecurities, HBM, take some responsibility for the impact they may have on her behavior, and then have a long talk about how you can both enjoy a little attention from members of the opposite sex without making the other person feel like shit.
I've been dating someone for a little more than two months. After the second week, he was saying things like "We need a word between 'like' and 'love' because 'I like you' doesn't seem sufficient." After weeks of telling him to slow his roll, I agreed to make it official and stop dating and sleeping with other guys because he wanted to "lock it down." It's been a week, and he's still on Scruff and Growlr. I'm a little put off because he was the one who pushed for exclusivity and the title of boyfriend. Should I be concerned? Can hookup apps be part of a healthy, monogamous relationship? Obviously a talk is needed.
Sick of Scruff
Obviously.
Maybe your boyfriend wants to cheat but doesn't want to be cheated on—he wants his boyfriend locked down, but doesn't want to be locked down himself—or maybe he thinks it's too soon to delete his online personal profiles. Or maybe, like a lot of gay men, he treats hookup apps like a virtual gay bar, i.e., a place where he can hang out and socialize with friends and exes and, perhaps, get his flirt on now and then.
But if lurking on Scruff and Growlr makes his newly locked-down boyfriend feel insecure, he should stay off hookup apps. Or, if he simply can't give 'em up, your new boyfriend should allow you to look at his chats whenever you care to so you can see for yourself that they're either wholly innocent (just talking with friends) or wholly innocent flirting (swapping photos and compliments with hot guys but not making plans to hook up).
I'm a gay man who gained 30 pounds after I met my current boyfriend. I started dieting about a week before you ran a letter from a woman who was wondering about withholding sex until her husband lost some weight. I told my boyfriend not to have sex with me until I lost 15 pounds. It took me three and a half weeks to lose the weight, but it really strengthened our relationship. He was supportive of my weight-loss goals, he had an incentive to help me make healthier choices, and it brought an erotic tension to the process that we both dug. My only suggestion for the woman who wrote you: Don't tell people about it! The people we told were angry at my boyfriend for "withholding" sex unless I lost weight. But, hey, it worked!
Lighter In Loafers
As I said in my response to Like Boys Slimmer, if a couple can make the withholding of sex into an erotic game that they're both playing and both enjoying—and not an asshole move one partner is pulling—I could maybe see this sort of arrangement working. And I'm pleased to hear that at least one couple out there was able to successfully eroticize a diet by combining it with chastity play.
Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.
@fakedansavage on Twitter
Share via
2
We were wrong all along. Apparently, the trick to make your relationships last 10+ years is to never communicate.
3
@1- No, HBM's girlfriend sounds like a dick. But HBM seems completely naive, or isn't explaining himself.
She's off to BM to cheat, cheat and cheat some more. Yet he seems to be unwilling to look at that. Or maybe he doesn't care and isn't saying. He needs to realize he's in an open relationship, then deal accordingly.
She's off to BM to cheat, cheat and cheat some more. Yet he seems to be unwilling to look at that. Or maybe he doesn't care and isn't saying. He needs to realize he's in an open relationship, then deal accordingly.
5
HBM sounds like a total Wet Blanket. Maybe you are the depressing, boring part of her life that she runs away from. Maybe you get this huge passive-aggressive thrill being a whiny, manipulative, little narcissist, hey maybe she gets off on being the Bad Grrl, breaking her good little boy's tiny widdle heart. I'd advise Her to DMTMFA him, but since she didn't write in, he did, I'm wracking my brains for something suitably PA... texting her the entire time she is there won't work because no one will be carrying phones... I guess he'll have to join the foreign legion and leave just as she comes back or something.
6
HBN does sound like a dick, one who also decided to snoop in those private emails and that is how he found out that his girlfriend was moderating a different forum.
Note: just because a person has a partner it does not mean they are obligated to let everyone know all the time. It CAN be a nice/convenient way to fend off advances, but if you don't want to fend off advances, or perhaps (like me) you don't want to use the boyfriend as an excuse (you CAN be honest, you know, just say you aren't interested instead of playing the I have a boyfriend card), then you might avoid mentioning the partner. This doesn't mean you're planning to cheat. It might mean that say, that partner got angry when they were mentioned as part of an online discussion and so, as Dan mentions, the burning man partner changed their behaviour online (can't believe the LW doesn't see this connection but then again maybe they are just not subjective enough and maybe paranoia/suspicion is getting in the way of reason).
So, there's no way the LW's partner can respect his wishes: write about the relationship online?: Bad! Don't write about the relationship online?: Bad! Sounds like the LW should realise that he is trying to take away one of the few social outlets that his girlfriend has/chooses to have. That's not really cool at all. Unless she's spending ALL her free time, to the detriment of the relationship even, then he can't force her to give up this network of friends.
Sounds like some major trust issues have come up for the LW. It's time to figure out why he feels so insecure, instead of expecting his partner to alter her behaviour radically/cut down/cut out her social time to make room for his trust issues. He's never going to get over them that way, either. I understand trying to help your partner deal with these sorts of issues by going along with their wishes occasionally/somewhat, but that should be within reason and not to detriment of your life -- letting them be so controlling is not how it should go. LW needs to talk to his partner about his insecurities and trust issues.
More...
Note: just because a person has a partner it does not mean they are obligated to let everyone know all the time. It CAN be a nice/convenient way to fend off advances, but if you don't want to fend off advances, or perhaps (like me) you don't want to use the boyfriend as an excuse (you CAN be honest, you know, just say you aren't interested instead of playing the I have a boyfriend card), then you might avoid mentioning the partner. This doesn't mean you're planning to cheat. It might mean that say, that partner got angry when they were mentioned as part of an online discussion and so, as Dan mentions, the burning man partner changed their behaviour online (can't believe the LW doesn't see this connection but then again maybe they are just not subjective enough and maybe paranoia/suspicion is getting in the way of reason).
So, there's no way the LW's partner can respect his wishes: write about the relationship online?: Bad! Don't write about the relationship online?: Bad! Sounds like the LW should realise that he is trying to take away one of the few social outlets that his girlfriend has/chooses to have. That's not really cool at all. Unless she's spending ALL her free time, to the detriment of the relationship even, then he can't force her to give up this network of friends.
Sounds like some major trust issues have come up for the LW. It's time to figure out why he feels so insecure, instead of expecting his partner to alter her behaviour radically/cut down/cut out her social time to make room for his trust issues. He's never going to get over them that way, either. I understand trying to help your partner deal with these sorts of issues by going along with their wishes occasionally/somewhat, but that should be within reason and not to detriment of your life -- letting them be so controlling is not how it should go. LW needs to talk to his partner about his insecurities and trust issues.
8
I don't get why on Earth would LIL ever have to mention the boyfriend withholding sex with anyone. If it's an erotic game you and your partner enjoy in private and it only involves you two, why share it with anyone else? Am I the only one who doesn't want to hear any part of my friends' sex lives (and this is definitely a part of their sex life) and thinks that this would be way TMI? I know probably my point of view may not be the most popular in Slog, but maybe LIL should ask his friends if it's his oversharing, and not his boyfriend's behavior, what's really bothering them.
9
I don't have any problem with consensual chastity play as a diet method, but fifteen pounds in three and a half weeks sounds incredibly unhealthy to me. Most general guidelines for healthy (and sustainable) weight loss tend to hover around one or two pounds per week. (Sometimes the guideline is one or two percent of your total body weight, which means this might be reasonable if the man's starting weight was... 425 or so.)
11
@9:
15 Pounds in 3 weeks does sound very unhealthy, and not really sustainable.
But on the bright side: maybe that'll let them enjoy more chastity games down the road.
15 Pounds in 3 weeks does sound very unhealthy, and not really sustainable.
But on the bright side: maybe that'll let them enjoy more chastity games down the road.
12
Oh, come ON.
"[D]iscussing the ups and downs of our relationship in a public online forum" is another way of saying "airing our dirty laundry in public." To characterize it as being caught between simply talking about having a boyfriend and not talking about having a boyfriend at all is either a) pretty damned disingenuous, or b) hopelessly bad reading comprehension.
You can mention your boyfriend without mentioning that you had a fight with him last night. (Or that he's asked you to withhold sex until he loses 15 lbs, to tie the week's column up in a nice neat package). TMI is TMI for a reason, and it's not his fault his girlfriend deals only in the extremes of either embarrassing him by oversharing or else omitting reference to him entirely.
I'm willing to entertain the possibility that the reason she switched from oversharing to complete omission is because a) (maybe) she's stupid enough to think that was a good way to fix it, or b) (more likely) you explained your perspective really badly and she thinks that's how you wanted it -- as opposed to c) she is nefariously leaving you out because she intends to cheat on you with all those male forum members who have been complimenting her. In fact, I think that either a or b is far more likely than c, unless there are other reasons that you didn't mention that you think you can't trust her.
I do think it would be fair to bring it up again, and I don't think you need to frame it as "Aw, shucks, sorry I'm just so crazy and particular about this, but can you humor me?" Asking someone to stop broadcasting the embarrassing stuff about your relationship is perfectly reasonable, and going from that directly to complete omission is weird enough that asking about it a second time isn't paranoia. That said, Dan is quite right that someone who is intent on fucking your girlfriend at Burning Man isn't going to be dissuaded one little bit by her mentioning the boyfriend who isn't coming along to the party. Bearing the latter point in mind, it's probably not worth your while to bring it up again, let alone making a rule around it. (For starters, making a rule would imply that you intend to police it. Please tell me you aren't going to go there.)
Find some other way to persuade yourself that she is trustworthy.
More...
"[D]iscussing the ups and downs of our relationship in a public online forum" is another way of saying "airing our dirty laundry in public." To characterize it as being caught between simply talking about having a boyfriend and not talking about having a boyfriend at all is either a) pretty damned disingenuous, or b) hopelessly bad reading comprehension.
You can mention your boyfriend without mentioning that you had a fight with him last night. (Or that he's asked you to withhold sex until he loses 15 lbs, to tie the week's column up in a nice neat package). TMI is TMI for a reason, and it's not his fault his girlfriend deals only in the extremes of either embarrassing him by oversharing or else omitting reference to him entirely.
I'm willing to entertain the possibility that the reason she switched from oversharing to complete omission is because a) (maybe) she's stupid enough to think that was a good way to fix it, or b) (more likely) you explained your perspective really badly and she thinks that's how you wanted it -- as opposed to c) she is nefariously leaving you out because she intends to cheat on you with all those male forum members who have been complimenting her. In fact, I think that either a or b is far more likely than c, unless there are other reasons that you didn't mention that you think you can't trust her.
I do think it would be fair to bring it up again, and I don't think you need to frame it as "Aw, shucks, sorry I'm just so crazy and particular about this, but can you humor me?" Asking someone to stop broadcasting the embarrassing stuff about your relationship is perfectly reasonable, and going from that directly to complete omission is weird enough that asking about it a second time isn't paranoia. That said, Dan is quite right that someone who is intent on fucking your girlfriend at Burning Man isn't going to be dissuaded one little bit by her mentioning the boyfriend who isn't coming along to the party. Bearing the latter point in mind, it's probably not worth your while to bring it up again, let alone making a rule around it. (For starters, making a rule would imply that you intend to police it. Please tell me you aren't going to go there.)
Find some other way to persuade yourself that she is trustworthy.
13
Dan: very sensible and sound advice. You're pretty darn good at your job.
And to those who are bothered by comments-that-might-possibly-be-construed-as-sucking-up-to-Dan sort of comments: fuck off.
And to those who are bothered by comments-that-might-possibly-be-construed-as-sucking-up-to-Dan sort of comments: fuck off.
14
I don't see how HBM just doesn't get it. The girlfriend is going to burning man without him to fuck a lot of guys. As Dan said, they don't care whether she has a boyfriend or not. If HBM doesn't like it he just needs to DTMFA.
15
I agree with #5. HBM comes across as way too controlling.
He sounds like he's looking for either :
a - Dan's autorization to screw around, on the basis that the wife might "cheat emotionally" -- and WTF is that, a "committing sin in the mind" type of BS ?
b - Dan's autorization to lock up the wife and sever the little social ties she still has.
I'd advise the wife to DTMFA and enjoy life - very probably HBM will end up acting upon his own insecurities by doing both a) and b), instead of going to a mental health professionnal and find out what's wrong with him.
He sounds like he's looking for either :
a - Dan's autorization to screw around, on the basis that the wife might "cheat emotionally" -- and WTF is that, a "committing sin in the mind" type of BS ?
b - Dan's autorization to lock up the wife and sever the little social ties she still has.
I'd advise the wife to DTMFA and enjoy life - very probably HBM will end up acting upon his own insecurities by doing both a) and b), instead of going to a mental health professionnal and find out what's wrong with him.
16
@7
Oh word, let's judge ~90% of the population by letters written to an advice columnist because they're fucked up.
FFS
@10/griz
Not always.
@12/avast
I agree with 100% of your post there. The girlfriend sounds a little socially dense, and then, so does the boyfriend.
Oh word, let's judge ~90% of the population by letters written to an advice columnist because they're fucked up.
FFS
@10/griz
Not always.
@12/avast
I agree with 100% of your post there. The girlfriend sounds a little socially dense, and then, so does the boyfriend.
17
HBM's letter has so many things wrong in it that bring up so many angles about his relationship that it's hard to know where to begin and certainly hard to reduce it down to how to bring up the subject or whether his girlfriend should be mentioning him on the internet.
A few comments stand out: She doesn't have a lot of people she socializes with in her daily life. Wow. That could be a good thing, a bad thing, the way she likes it, indicative of some social anxiety, just an introverted personality, someone lonely, someone living in a fantasy world, etc. So many possibilities, but the way it's presented, it sounds like more than just describing the situation. I can't figure out if it's a problem or not. If it is a problem, it's a bigger one than whether she tells people she has a boyfriend.
Then there's: "I also feel like she saves the spontaneous, uninhibited and adventurous part of herself for these people at Burning Man." Okay, this is a problem. Whether or not she's sleeping with folks at Burning Man, and whether or not that's an issue for HBM, he sounds unhappy with being the boring steady guy at home while she has fun with everyone else.
"Does it sound like she is cheating emotionally?" What does that even mean? I'm seeing "emotional affair" all over the place now, and I sure would love to see that defined. I'd like to ask HBM "what does cheating emotionally mean to you?" There's a whole can of worms when you want to accuse someone of something when no one knows quite what it is.
A few comments stand out: She doesn't have a lot of people she socializes with in her daily life. Wow. That could be a good thing, a bad thing, the way she likes it, indicative of some social anxiety, just an introverted personality, someone lonely, someone living in a fantasy world, etc. So many possibilities, but the way it's presented, it sounds like more than just describing the situation. I can't figure out if it's a problem or not. If it is a problem, it's a bigger one than whether she tells people she has a boyfriend.
Then there's: "I also feel like she saves the spontaneous, uninhibited and adventurous part of herself for these people at Burning Man." Okay, this is a problem. Whether or not she's sleeping with folks at Burning Man, and whether or not that's an issue for HBM, he sounds unhappy with being the boring steady guy at home while she has fun with everyone else.
"Does it sound like she is cheating emotionally?" What does that even mean? I'm seeing "emotional affair" all over the place now, and I sure would love to see that defined. I'd like to ask HBM "what does cheating emotionally mean to you?" There's a whole can of worms when you want to accuse someone of something when no one knows quite what it is.
18
nice to see Dan get some of his teeth back @ HBM - this column has been way too lovey dovey lately.
19
LiL: you gotta love how the gay guys let it all out. Seriously. Imagine the dinner party: "Hey, great brie. Oh, did you know my boyfriend cut me off until I lose this gut? Funny, huh?"
17: "I'm seeing 'emotional affair' all over the place now, and I sure would love to see that defined."
I am no expert...but, oh, hell, I will simply appoint myself as one, just like everyone does!
I think it boils down to the emotional "cheater" (not really the correct word, I think, but we will use it for simplicity) is not really putting forth the emotional effort and enthusiasm their partner can reasonably expect. Instead that energy and enthusiams is quite obviously going to someone else, to the exclusion of the partner.
For example, wife puts on her best clothes, shaves her legs, tans, does her hair, make-up, and takes a power nap in the afternoon to have maximum energy...all for a good time with her friends, where she laughs, parties and looks great. Wandering home at 2:00 am, she tells her boyfriend she had the best, best time. Meanwhile, her boyfriend has not seen her do any such thing for him in 3 years. He gets only a woman rocking ratty sweatpants and a greasy ponytail who beds down at 9:30 pm after yawning that she is too tired for nookie, again.
Or hubby who is witty, charming, engaged and attentive towards his cute coworker at the near-daily lunch he has with her. But is a face-down-in-the-plate, monosyllabic grunter when eating dinner with his attention-starved wife later that same day.
Avast is better than Mr. Savage on parsing the possible nuances of letter one. But yeah, letterwriter needs to think some more about his own position on the forum thing and how his signals may be mixed.
Oh, and the assumption that girlfriend is going to Burning Man to bang others, I would note that a woman does not have to travel to get action. She can literally walk outside her front door and find it within minutes. So unless she finds the Burning Man thing a uniquely-charged sexual atmosphere, and thus goes there for that part of the thrill, she cheats there about as much as she cheats at home. But then, I guess that whole cliche about women and their "straycations" may have some validity. Who can say?
More...
17: "I'm seeing 'emotional affair' all over the place now, and I sure would love to see that defined."
I am no expert...but, oh, hell, I will simply appoint myself as one, just like everyone does!
I think it boils down to the emotional "cheater" (not really the correct word, I think, but we will use it for simplicity) is not really putting forth the emotional effort and enthusiasm their partner can reasonably expect. Instead that energy and enthusiams is quite obviously going to someone else, to the exclusion of the partner.
For example, wife puts on her best clothes, shaves her legs, tans, does her hair, make-up, and takes a power nap in the afternoon to have maximum energy...all for a good time with her friends, where she laughs, parties and looks great. Wandering home at 2:00 am, she tells her boyfriend she had the best, best time. Meanwhile, her boyfriend has not seen her do any such thing for him in 3 years. He gets only a woman rocking ratty sweatpants and a greasy ponytail who beds down at 9:30 pm after yawning that she is too tired for nookie, again.
Or hubby who is witty, charming, engaged and attentive towards his cute coworker at the near-daily lunch he has with her. But is a face-down-in-the-plate, monosyllabic grunter when eating dinner with his attention-starved wife later that same day.
Avast is better than Mr. Savage on parsing the possible nuances of letter one. But yeah, letterwriter needs to think some more about his own position on the forum thing and how his signals may be mixed.
Oh, and the assumption that girlfriend is going to Burning Man to bang others, I would note that a woman does not have to travel to get action. She can literally walk outside her front door and find it within minutes. So unless she finds the Burning Man thing a uniquely-charged sexual atmosphere, and thus goes there for that part of the thrill, she cheats there about as much as she cheats at home. But then, I guess that whole cliche about women and their "straycations" may have some validity. Who can say?
20
I'm not sure that Dan is on the mark with his advice to HBN's girlfriend. There does exist a line between oversharing about one's relationship, and pretending that your partner doesn't exist.
That said, I've run across the gf's type before: the quiet schmuck at home is the reliable home base, the dullness that puts the exciting bits in higher relief, the steady life that makes things like Burning Man trips and bangs and threads ever so much more interesting by comparison.
That said, I've run across the gf's type before: the quiet schmuck at home is the reliable home base, the dullness that puts the exciting bits in higher relief, the steady life that makes things like Burning Man trips and bangs and threads ever so much more interesting by comparison.
21
I would note that a woman does not have to travel to get action. She can literally walk outside her front door and find it within minutes.
That's an interesting universe you live in there. I can't quite decide whether I'd like to visit it or not. But I know I've never been there.
That's an interesting universe you live in there. I can't quite decide whether I'd like to visit it or not. But I know I've never been there.
22
Maybe I'm naive because I've never been to Burning Man, but is having tons of sex with tons of people the main attraction? Or is it possible that she just likes the vibe there and isn't nailing a bunch of other dudes? Presumably, HBN would have known from the forum he read what GF's intentions were.
I agree with the rest of Dan's answer: you can't have it both ways, HBN. You tell her not to talk about you, then you wonder why she doesn't talk about you. You've got her walking on eggshells, then you wonder why she isn't adventurous with you.
Personally, I think you should break up with her. Not because she did anything wrong, because she didn't. Just because you two aren't very compatible. And because you're not so good at this whole "communication" thing, you'd to well to find someone who is naturally a bit more on your same wavelength.
I agree with the rest of Dan's answer: you can't have it both ways, HBN. You tell her not to talk about you, then you wonder why she doesn't talk about you. You've got her walking on eggshells, then you wonder why she isn't adventurous with you.
Personally, I think you should break up with her. Not because she did anything wrong, because she didn't. Just because you two aren't very compatible. And because you're not so good at this whole "communication" thing, you'd to well to find someone who is naturally a bit more on your same wavelength.
23
I disagree mightily with Dan on HBM. As others have pointed out, there's a difference between sharing every nitty gritty and possibly highly personal detail of every fight, and simply mentioning something like "my boyfriend and I went to this awesome Italian place last night and..." every once in a while. I often do the latter when I want to subtly get guys to understand that I'm taken and back off.
@Crinoline (#17) - an emotional affair is when someone who is married or otherwise in a committed relationship is in love with another person, but doesn't actually physically cheat. In other words, it's an affair without the sex or kissing.
@Crinoline (#17) - an emotional affair is when someone who is married or otherwise in a committed relationship is in love with another person, but doesn't actually physically cheat. In other words, it's an affair without the sex or kissing.
24
#21: Snowguy may have been exaggerating somewhat, but you have to admit it is way, way easier for a woman to find a man for some action, than the reverse.
#23: I think it's pretty natural for GF to stop talking about HBM completely after HBM "confronted" (his word choice) her about it. Why walk on eggshells when you can just sweep them out of the way?
#23: I think it's pretty natural for GF to stop talking about HBM completely after HBM "confronted" (his word choice) her about it. Why walk on eggshells when you can just sweep them out of the way?
25
Wow, three and a half WHOLE WEEKS to lose 15 pounds? That's like the time between mailing rent checks! You poor baby.
*goes off in the corner to fume at men
*goes off in the corner to fume at men
26
I wonder how much faster LW 3 would've lost weight if the deal was to only have sex after a work out?
27
Eirene/21: empirical testing regarding the topic.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/insi…
That study referenced in the linked article comports well with the universe I live in. What does your universe look like?
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/insi…
That study referenced in the linked article comports well with the universe I live in. What does your universe look like?
28
I agree with the people who don't think that the only alternative to your partner airing your dirty laundry in public is for your partner to represent themselves as single.
As for "how you can both enjoy a little attention from members of the opposite sex without making the other person feel like shit" that's very simple: she can have an open relationship and feel OK while he can have a closed relationship and feel like shit.
She really doesn't sound like she's that into him any more. DTMFA. Seriously, a guy who makes a point of telling women who are potentially interested in him that he's attached is not a good match for a woman who goes to Burning Man alone and without any discussion of expectations of whether the relationship's open or closed.
As for "how you can both enjoy a little attention from members of the opposite sex without making the other person feel like shit" that's very simple: she can have an open relationship and feel OK while he can have a closed relationship and feel like shit.
She really doesn't sound like she's that into him any more. DTMFA. Seriously, a guy who makes a point of telling women who are potentially interested in him that he's attached is not a good match for a woman who goes to Burning Man alone and without any discussion of expectations of whether the relationship's open or closed.
29
Going to Burning Man without your partner does not mean you are planning to cheat. Maybe Dan forgot a clause.
33
As if ?!?
The emotional affair sucks if you are the one at home = "She's just a friend" yeah, right. You can't control what someone thinks about. After 16 years of marriage, the 5 year affair with Jennifer wtf? Ouch I had to decide that I can find monogamy and love with someone else because Dawn isn't capable of that. I love her, I'm hurt and pissed, what can you do? Throw the baby out with the bath, or it's part of who she is? Is their S +M relationship anything different than the two of them playing video games or watching horror movies togather? The lies and "you are crazy for accusing me..." eventually fell wayside to "You can't get mad, but we do have this S+M relationship. I do lick her pussy and tie her up etc for 4 years. I want credit for that year I didn't when the emotional affair began."
So this happened 3 months ago and I'm still reeling, The lies and knowing she was lying drove me crazier than knowing what I dreaded was true. Now I get to regroup. I haven't even masterbated and thought of anyone else yet, but I'm starting to think I might soon. We were just too young I guess, or not evolved lesbians, but I meant my commitment. She says she wants us both, but understands that I deserve a gal who will give me what she said she would (fidelity) .This other relationship is too strong to quit that's why she was afraid to tell me, because she didn't want either to end. I know it was immature and rude of her, but I get it. Sometimes emotional affairs lead to real affairs with Foreplay or time to spell out their kinks. Please could you...Would you? Is it worth it to start?
The emotional affair sucks if you are the one at home = "She's just a friend" yeah, right. You can't control what someone thinks about. After 16 years of marriage, the 5 year affair with Jennifer wtf? Ouch I had to decide that I can find monogamy and love with someone else because Dawn isn't capable of that. I love her, I'm hurt and pissed, what can you do? Throw the baby out with the bath, or it's part of who she is? Is their S +M relationship anything different than the two of them playing video games or watching horror movies togather? The lies and "you are crazy for accusing me..." eventually fell wayside to "You can't get mad, but we do have this S+M relationship. I do lick her pussy and tie her up etc for 4 years. I want credit for that year I didn't when the emotional affair began."
So this happened 3 months ago and I'm still reeling, The lies and knowing she was lying drove me crazier than knowing what I dreaded was true. Now I get to regroup. I haven't even masterbated and thought of anyone else yet, but I'm starting to think I might soon. We were just too young I guess, or not evolved lesbians, but I meant my commitment. She says she wants us both, but understands that I deserve a gal who will give me what she said she would (fidelity) .This other relationship is too strong to quit that's why she was afraid to tell me, because she didn't want either to end. I know it was immature and rude of her, but I get it. Sometimes emotional affairs lead to real affairs with Foreplay or time to spell out their kinks. Please could you...Would you? Is it worth it to start?
34
You're truly rotten at the core, Bob, and I don't give a shit anymore. Fuck you and thanks for nothing, you chump.
35
"Casual Straight sex is a huge part of the burning man experience"
Is Burning Man the long sought after bath house for straights? How long until the ratio of men to women at burning man is 25:1?
Is Burning Man the long sought after bath house for straights? How long until the ratio of men to women at burning man is 25:1?
37
Anyone married to you Bob has to be just as much of an asshole as you are. Whatever. Fuck you, the horse you rode in on and whatever else that becomes and as is associated with you being around me, or one another, for any reason anymore, fuck off.
38
@17: "Whether or not she's sleeping with folks at Burning Man, and whether or not that's an issue for HBM, he sounds unhappy with being the boring steady guy at home while she has fun with everyone else."
Yes, this. I have to wonder why he doesn't go with her to Burning Man? But I suspect the problem goes deeper than just their social calendar.
Yes, this. I have to wonder why he doesn't go with her to Burning Man? But I suspect the problem goes deeper than just their social calendar.
39
@27, Snowguy, Really? The study referenced in that blog post does not show what you think it does. It shows that women correctly evaluate the likelihood of having an orgasm against thee likelihood of winding up axe-murdered, and find the offer wanting. Which is why women can't walk out their doors and get laid. And that's assuming that the one small study, conducted in 1982, is actually representative.
40
@33, I'm sorry for your pain. It's true that a lot of relationships end after a decade, or are significantly renegotiated. If you still love her, you could try seeing a counselor to explore what it would take to stay together.
@39 - yes, possibly axe-murdered, but more likely jack-hammered for an hour, or gossiped about, or pregnant, or feeling used when the guy never calls you again, or infected with herpes, or... It's not just axe-murdered.
And the odds of the orgasm are pretty low: "only 11 percent of women in first-time hookups reported orgasm"
http://www.salon.com/2012/09/05/can_hook…
@39 - yes, possibly axe-murdered, but more likely jack-hammered for an hour, or gossiped about, or pregnant, or feeling used when the guy never calls you again, or infected with herpes, or... It's not just axe-murdered.
And the odds of the orgasm are pretty low: "only 11 percent of women in first-time hookups reported orgasm"
http://www.salon.com/2012/09/05/can_hook…
42
Just got back from my third Burn. My wife does not go (doenst like the conditions i.e. stupidly hot and dusty) But she says "go have fun" and wants to hear my stories when I get back.
Havent cheated, dont plan to cheat.
It's not --allways-- about the sex folks.
Havent cheated, dont plan to cheat.
It's not --allways-- about the sex folks.
43
If your partner's "real" life --- the one where he or she is honest, uninhibited, fun, social, whatever --- is online and at some annual event rather than every day with you, and if you aren't part of that online/annual imaginary real life, you should break up with your partner. Unless you don't really want a partner, I guess.
45
So everyone at Burning Man goes to have sex? I'd better mention this to my friends who are going - they wanted to go to a cool festival in the desert, and I don't think infidelity is what they had in mind.
Plus come on - you don't even know this woman - stop assuming things about her motivation. People who are introverted ('have a narrow social circle, spend a lot of time online) at home are usually introverted everywhere else too. Perhaps she just wants to see her friends in real life for once, kick back and have a good time.
Plus come on - you don't even know this woman - stop assuming things about her motivation. People who are introverted ('have a narrow social circle, spend a lot of time online) at home are usually introverted everywhere else too. Perhaps she just wants to see her friends in real life for once, kick back and have a good time.
46
Here's a though HBM - why not try to be involved in your long term GF's life? Maybe talk to her about Burning Man, and the forum she moderates? Maybe consider attending BM with her? Sure maybe it's not yoru 'thing', but have you even tried? Obviously this part of her life is importatnt to her, so why not aim to enjoy it with her?
48
I thought this might be of interest. Last week's column (Sleepfuckers) dealt with parasomnia. Here's an article that came out on it today:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/doree/can-you-di…
http://www.buzzfeed.com/doree/can-you-di…
49
Wow. Just 1 person stood up for those of us who DO go to Burning Man for the thousands of other reasons besides casual straight sex. Wow. Firstly Dan, I'm disappointed that you say the reason coupled people would go w/o their partner is to cheat. That is simply not true. Sure, there plenty of coupled people that go and do that. Some might even have permission. BUT there are many many who go w/o their partner for the ART, COMMUNITY, FRIENDS, BEING SILLY, RADICAL SELF-RELIANCE, SPIRITUALITY, ETC ETC ETC... Sometimes our partners don't want to or can't go. That doesn't mean we're cheating. And in regards to how she saves the fun part of herself for Burning Man, well, sometimes people have to. My husband is a police officer. He saves the cross-dressing, uninhibited, silly part of himself for Burning Man. Conventional culture dictates that he does. It's hard to make a judgement call about why the GF might do that w/o knowing what her life is like in "reality camp" (as we like to call it). I have a feeling though that it has something to do with her BF who seems to be a bit controlling and not understanding of why she burns.
50
What is going on with comments 31, 32, 34, and 37? Who the hell is Bob and why is everyone so pissed at him? So confused.
51
My advice to HBM: If you've been together for ten years, there mus be a reason. This relationship must mostly work. But if you feel like you're the depressing part of her life, and don't like it, then don't be that. Take her for some crazy weekends elsewhere. Do stuff you've talked about but never done. Surprise her. Maybe you can create a few more points of overlap in your lives.
OK (now to everyone else) here's what I think went on in her brain, to be taken with a salt mine because my only contact with this woman is through a letter someone else wrote.
If she doesn't have a lot of friends in her daily, real world life, she's probably getting the friendship she needs online. A lot of people do, especially those whose interests are underserved in their home communities. She probably didn't think of her actions as airing dirty laundry publicly, but as discussing her relationship with her friends, forgetting, as I've seen happen, that EVERYONE can read these discussions, not just the participants. People discuss their love lives with their friends all the time.
I have a few other thoughts about this situation. She might be discussing her relationship in private emails not yet turned up by HBM's fairly non-thorough snooping. Also, if he says he "confronted her", it's possible her term would be "yelled at", and she felt the need to err on the side of caution. There are a lot of unknowns here so I suggest those wild weekends I mentioned earlier be littered with frank discussions over really good wine.
OK (now to everyone else) here's what I think went on in her brain, to be taken with a salt mine because my only contact with this woman is through a letter someone else wrote.
If she doesn't have a lot of friends in her daily, real world life, she's probably getting the friendship she needs online. A lot of people do, especially those whose interests are underserved in their home communities. She probably didn't think of her actions as airing dirty laundry publicly, but as discussing her relationship with her friends, forgetting, as I've seen happen, that EVERYONE can read these discussions, not just the participants. People discuss their love lives with their friends all the time.
I have a few other thoughts about this situation. She might be discussing her relationship in private emails not yet turned up by HBM's fairly non-thorough snooping. Also, if he says he "confronted her", it's possible her term would be "yelled at", and she felt the need to err on the side of caution. There are a lot of unknowns here so I suggest those wild weekends I mentioned earlier be littered with frank discussions over really good wine.
53
@17: "Emotional affair" is kind of hard to describe, but imagine for a moment a person in a long-term monogamous relationship meeting someone at work and getting a crush on them. Although this person would never cheat sexually, they proceed to spend more and more time with their crush, talk to them all the time, do activities with them... until the new person is getting much more time and attention than their original partner, even if none of it is physically sexual.
The main problem with an emotional affair is that it often is a very real threat to the original relationship, because it can't be consummated until the original relationship dies. In addition, a person who is happy with their original relationship will find a way to tamp down that initial crush so that it doesn't threaten what they have with their original partner. Sexual affairs do not always have these characteristics, but emotional ones do.
The main problem with an emotional affair is that it often is a very real threat to the original relationship, because it can't be consummated until the original relationship dies. In addition, a person who is happy with their original relationship will find a way to tamp down that initial crush so that it doesn't threaten what they have with their original partner. Sexual affairs do not always have these characteristics, but emotional ones do.
54
Yeah, sorry @3, but HBM definitely sounds like a dick.
@50, those comments have the hallmarks of Slog's resident obsessed closet-case troll. I don't know what he's on about - and "everyone" here is just one guy so don't worry too much about it - but you can rest assured it probably has to do with internalized homophobia and a pathological fixation/crush on Dan.
@50, those comments have the hallmarks of Slog's resident obsessed closet-case troll. I don't know what he's on about - and "everyone" here is just one guy so don't worry too much about it - but you can rest assured it probably has to do with internalized homophobia and a pathological fixation/crush on Dan.
55
FYI: I'm an attractive single woman who has been to BM and NOT had sex. By my choice. I've also been by myself while in a relationship and not had sex. By my choice. Not everyone has sex at BM. Let's drop the stereotypes. Flirting does not = sex. Having online friends of one or both genders does not = sex.
End of line.
End of line.
56
15lbs in 3 1/2 weeks for a guy that is moderately overweight isn't that hard from what I understand. I've got a friend who can do about that by actually exercising a little and just being halfway smart about what he puts in his mouth. Sometimes, I think I'd like to kill him...
57
I look forward to LIL's book, "HOW TO LOSE 15 POUNDS AND STRENGTHEN YOUR RELATIONSHIP IN THREE-AND-A-HALF WEEKS"
58
I go to burning man without the wife, and generally limit myself to whatever shennanagins might happen on the dance floor.
59
Is there some reason HBM hasn't gone with his wife to Burning Man? I know it's not for everyone, but it's clearly very meaningful for her, and it seems like sharing it at least once might be a good thing, if he's feeling that left out. I mean, yeah it can be a festival of sex if that's what you go for, but it can be plenty of other things too, and it sounds like the community itself is a big part of why she goes. If HBM wants to be taken into consideration by her friends in that community, maybe he should at least meet them.
60
Lighter In Loafers's situation is not a good comparison to the other letter that dealt with this, for a couple of reasons:
1) The one losing the weight is the one who requested the withholding.
2) There is no evidence from LIL's letter that there is a problem with libido failure in the couple.
Congrats to LIL for having made it work. But anybody reading both situations and thinking it might be worth a shot, be very careful if you are the one imposing the abstinence/rationing on the other person in order to "incent" them to drop the pounds. Be especially careful if you are starting from a situation of impaired libido.
BTW, fat contains roughly 3500 kCal per pound. Dropping 15 pounds of it implies a shortfall of around fifty two thousand calories. Over three and a half weeks, that means generating a calorie deficit of around two thousand calories a day, which is to say, your entire daily calorie ration. What did you do, fast the whole time?
1) The one losing the weight is the one who requested the withholding.
2) There is no evidence from LIL's letter that there is a problem with libido failure in the couple.
Congrats to LIL for having made it work. But anybody reading both situations and thinking it might be worth a shot, be very careful if you are the one imposing the abstinence/rationing on the other person in order to "incent" them to drop the pounds. Be especially careful if you are starting from a situation of impaired libido.
BTW, fat contains roughly 3500 kCal per pound. Dropping 15 pounds of it implies a shortfall of around fifty two thousand calories. Over three and a half weeks, that means generating a calorie deficit of around two thousand calories a day, which is to say, your entire daily calorie ration. What did you do, fast the whole time?
61
Change "Burning Man" for "Medical Career" and here we are, 12 years and counting. When your husband thinks all your friends are boring/too something/too little something you are pissed at first and then you realize you have the chance of being single when convenient. If most of your social network revolves around what you are really interested in and your husband thinks the subject lame, then he has to see the way of being MORE interesting. Want emotional atention? You'll have to work for it. Be there. Go with her. Bring something fun and adventurous into your lives. You are probably being used as the safe, boring, dependable item a home should be, HBM. Maybe you´re not all right with it, but she sure is. This is something you don't go around tellin people and that's why she is not talking about you. Now call me a dick if you want.
62
Ok, 3 Burned letters. Only HBM's has raised significant interest.
SOS has diagnosed and prescribed himself. Obviously a talk is needed.
Lil sounds like he did a poor job of communicating with his friends. The people we told were angry at my boyfriend for "withholding" sex.
Losing 15 lb is not that spectacular. It can be done largely by dehydration. Like a fighter making his wt class.
But HBM's relationship with his gf is much more open to speculation. I still think he's drawn boundaries more tightly than she's agreed to.
SOS has diagnosed and prescribed himself. Obviously a talk is needed.
Lil sounds like he did a poor job of communicating with his friends. The people we told were angry at my boyfriend for "withholding" sex.
Losing 15 lb is not that spectacular. It can be done largely by dehydration. Like a fighter making his wt class.
But HBM's relationship with his gf is much more open to speculation. I still think he's drawn boundaries more tightly than she's agreed to.
63
If she wasn't using his real name (or hers) on the forum, then he's got nothing to complain about. I'm sure (at least some of) the burners know her name, considering that she attends in-person, too, but if she's going by a handle online, and you're not immediately identifiable, you've got nothing to complain about. It's as private as sharing with a group of friends (which she's doing). I agree with Dan entirely.
64
@avast2006: When one is overweight, it usually implies that one is exceeding their 2,000 daily caloric goal, sometimes by a significant amount. If he went from eating 4,000 calories daily to eating 2,000 calories daily--well, that's hardly fasting.
Also, the recommended 2,000 daily calories does not take into account A) weight-loss (the recommended goal for which is generally 1,500 calories taken in daily), B) higher amounts of exercise (which affects the energy balance without needing to reduce calories taken in), or C) differences in metabolisms among different people.
Also, the recommended 2,000 daily calories does not take into account A) weight-loss (the recommended goal for which is generally 1,500 calories taken in daily), B) higher amounts of exercise (which affects the energy balance without needing to reduce calories taken in), or C) differences in metabolisms among different people.
66
Uncelestial,
Neither you nor anyone else knows if RAPIST is male or female.
I'll go with Dan's take. But I was convinced that [Rapist]'s letter was real—and it was from a girl.
Neither you nor anyone else knows if RAPIST is male or female.
I'll go with Dan's take. But I was convinced that [Rapist]'s letter was real—and it was from a girl.
68
"When one is overweight, it usually implies that one is exceeding their 2,000 daily caloric goal, sometimes by a significant amount. If he went from eating 4,000 calories daily to eating 2,000 calories daily--well, that's hardly fasting."
Ummm... I don't think that's how that works. You have to have a deficit of calories below what your body requires to maintain your current weight not just reduce the calories you are currently eating. If you need 2k calories to maintain your weight and are eating 4k then dropping down to 2k will only halt your weight gain (what that calorie amount is varies greatly from person to person, 2k is an average). A deficit of 2k is usually bad regardless of what your maintenance calories are, because the base level for bodily functions is around 1,200 calories (again an average, individuals vary) and running a deficit of 2k calories is likely to drop you below that base level.
That being said: that 15lbs was probably not all fat. A lot of people when they just start out dieting lose a bunch of water weight because they eat fewer salty foods and drink more water if their exercising. When I started trying to lose weight this year it took me longer than 3.5 weeks to lose 15lbs but I was able to drop almost 5lbs the first week because I stopped eating some foods that made me retain water.
Ummm... I don't think that's how that works. You have to have a deficit of calories below what your body requires to maintain your current weight not just reduce the calories you are currently eating. If you need 2k calories to maintain your weight and are eating 4k then dropping down to 2k will only halt your weight gain (what that calorie amount is varies greatly from person to person, 2k is an average). A deficit of 2k is usually bad regardless of what your maintenance calories are, because the base level for bodily functions is around 1,200 calories (again an average, individuals vary) and running a deficit of 2k calories is likely to drop you below that base level.
That being said: that 15lbs was probably not all fat. A lot of people when they just start out dieting lose a bunch of water weight because they eat fewer salty foods and drink more water if their exercising. When I started trying to lose weight this year it took me longer than 3.5 weeks to lose 15lbs but I was able to drop almost 5lbs the first week because I stopped eating some foods that made me retain water.
69
@60:
A pound of fat has around 3500 kcal, but a pound of fatty tissue has significantly fewer calories. Fatty tissue consists of fat, protein and water.
@68:
The first few days of energy deficit, your body uses up its glycogen stores (= carbohydrate). Again, the glycogen stores also contain water. And, when the glycogen is broken down to gain energy, water is formed. Only after the first few days, the body starts to break down fatty tissue for energy, but will simultaneously also use muscle protein to get energy.
In general, it is easier for men to lose fatty tissue and maintain lean body mass (- muscle protein).
A pound of fat has around 3500 kcal, but a pound of fatty tissue has significantly fewer calories. Fatty tissue consists of fat, protein and water.
@68:
The first few days of energy deficit, your body uses up its glycogen stores (= carbohydrate). Again, the glycogen stores also contain water. And, when the glycogen is broken down to gain energy, water is formed. Only after the first few days, the body starts to break down fatty tissue for energy, but will simultaneously also use muscle protein to get energy.
In general, it is easier for men to lose fatty tissue and maintain lean body mass (- muscle protein).
72
Why on earth would someone be terrified of something painful and injurious happening to their genitals, which they cannot control?
It's a mystery.
It's a mystery.
73
To all the Burners: The rest of us can't stand you. All you do is natter about how god-awful special your doped-up experience on the playa was, how you made some deep connection or transcended some shit. Blah-dee blah-fucking blah. And how the rest of the world is just a bunch of walking dead zombies who just don't *understand*, man...
Just shut the fuck up. We don't care. You went to a week-long rave and lived on baby-wipes and drugs. We get it, and we just don't fucking care.
Just shut the fuck up. We don't care. You went to a week-long rave and lived on baby-wipes and drugs. We get it, and we just don't fucking care.
75
Ahh, burners ~ they really do organize their entire lives, social and otherwise, around this once a year event? Is nothing else prescient or relevant? Sounds like this couple is mis matched, (he's an insecure control seeker & she's a totally free spirit, clearly "the Burn" is her priority, year round). Whatever. People have been organizing around what they consider to be "ascendant" events for a long time. Burners are a recent variation of Deadheads, and, sorry to say, even Parrotheads, so on and so forth, blah, blah blah. Cool now, not so cool later. It's getting a little creaky and long in the tooth, no? The cirque du soleil meets madmax thing, but, hey, "Burn on". However, break up with the partner who stresses and judges and frets, whilst one is there! ( why let them ruin your good time, or worry, all the year long while you eagerly make plans for your next one before this one is even over.) Conversely, break up with the partner who won't take you and makes it the center of their universe, while you are tortured all year wondering what they are saying (or not) about you with their fellow beloved burners. What's not cool on either side, is to turn 1 annual event into a 365 "stress or guilt _ a - thon", about a temporary, and way overripe counter cultural (now a hipster bucket list must do) social gathering. Yikes. Never would I have put up with either one of theses partners attitude or actions, as described for 10 years. Kak.
76
HBM's situation: relationship has gone way off course, but neither of them are monsters and they could turn things around or at least improve the level of truth and attention for each other. There could be some sex/love addiction going on with her. Perhaps they can't stay together, but they are way far from knowing that. Truth has to be aired. Otherwise, what's a marriage?
81
bubblues@80: how Wordsworthian of you.
"Though nothing can bring back the hour
Of splenda in the grass, of glory in the flower..."
"Though nothing can bring back the hour
Of splenda in the grass, of glory in the flower..."
82
I have to disagree with you, Dan, on your opinions about Burningman. Just because someone is going without their partner doesn't mean they are planning to or will end up hooking up with someone else! Sex, or abstinence, drugs or sober, party party or creative productivity, the event is what you make of it. I honestly like going without my partner more just because it gives me more freedom for spontaneity. Despite the fact that I'm attractive, and in an open relationship, I've never had a random hook up out there.
84
Men are much more attracted to women than the other way. The anti-genderists may deny it, but the evidence is all around us. Women intelligently exploit that advantage, and spend much more time and money on their looks. Prostitution is a service provided by women to men for money. Women know their appearance totally distracts men.
In Ozzie and Harriet Land men were glad to go out in the world to provide a home for his woman and eventual children. We can no longer afford 2+ lives on one income. Besides, many women are glad go out to learn and validate themselves. But guys are still useful for heavy and dirty work. What woman changes her tire if he is handy? She lets him drive.
Exotic underwear arouses him. She lives longer. She wears more jewelry. Who's dominating whom?
In Ozzie and Harriet Land men were glad to go out in the world to provide a home for his woman and eventual children. We can no longer afford 2+ lives on one income. Besides, many women are glad go out to learn and validate themselves. But guys are still useful for heavy and dirty work. What woman changes her tire if he is handy? She lets him drive.
Exotic underwear arouses him. She lives longer. She wears more jewelry. Who's dominating whom?
86
This the first I've heard about Burning Man. Is it something one belongs to or is it an open event? It's probably not something I would plan a vacation around but it sure sounds interesting.
87
#84 Hunter78
Not all men are attracted to women than the other way. Some women are more attracted to men than the average man is attracted to women. It is not always the women with the biggest boobs or the prettiest faces.
Many women like good sex, not bad sex, so they seem less interested than men. But with a man who can turn them on, many women want just as much sex as men.
Not all men are attracted to women than the other way. Some women are more attracted to men than the average man is attracted to women. It is not always the women with the biggest boobs or the prettiest faces.
Many women like good sex, not bad sex, so they seem less interested than men. But with a man who can turn them on, many women want just as much sex as men.
92
Women intelligently exploit that advantage, and spend much more time and money on their looks.
Yeah, as Cliff Pervocracy famously said, "Apparently dudes will fuck anything that moves… unless it’s wearing last season’s eyeshadow, gawd."
Yeah, as Cliff Pervocracy famously said, "Apparently dudes will fuck anything that moves… unless it’s wearing last season’s eyeshadow, gawd."
93
@missing bd.
No? I intended to respond to 87 :)
I can't comment on burning man. I've never been, nor do I plan on going.
No? I intended to respond to 87 :)
I can't comment on burning man. I've never been, nor do I plan on going.
95
@mydriasis
Sorry. I guess I just didn't follow your response at all. Never mind. Not a big deal since I don't really plan on going either. I was just wondering.
Sorry. I guess I just didn't follow your response at all. Never mind. Not a big deal since I don't really plan on going either. I was just wondering.
96
@17
In this case, having an emotional affair would mean saving the adventerous, uninhibited side of her personality for her friends online while being boring wifey to her partner.
An emotional affair is usually defined as a friendship or other emotional relationship that seriously interferes with your ability to connect with your partner for whatever reason. Like if a person spends the majority of their "fun time" with friends away from their partner and their partner basically gets the boring day to day stuff like eating, getting ready for work and paying the bills. Some people throw the term around for silly reasons, because their relationship isn't working, but it's basically when a partner is using other people to get their emotional needs met and avoid meeting their partner's emotional needs.
In this case, having an emotional affair would mean saving the adventerous, uninhibited side of her personality for her friends online while being boring wifey to her partner.
An emotional affair is usually defined as a friendship or other emotional relationship that seriously interferes with your ability to connect with your partner for whatever reason. Like if a person spends the majority of their "fun time" with friends away from their partner and their partner basically gets the boring day to day stuff like eating, getting ready for work and paying the bills. Some people throw the term around for silly reasons, because their relationship isn't working, but it's basically when a partner is using other people to get their emotional needs met and avoid meeting their partner's emotional needs.
97
"Burning Man is a week-long annual event held in the Black Rock Desert in northern Nevada, in the United States. The event begins on the last Monday in August, and ends on the first Monday in September, which coincides with the American Labor Day holiday. The 2012 Burning Man Festival is August 27 to September 3. It takes its name from the ritual burning of a large wooden effigy on Saturday evening. The event is described by many participants as an experiment in community, art, radical self-expression, and radical self-reliance."
According to wikipedia.
I always assumed it was sort of like a woodstock/coachella type deal except extra grimey?
According to wikipedia.
I always assumed it was sort of like a woodstock/coachella type deal except extra grimey?
98
Hey Dan, just wanted to say how much I enjoy and appreciate your work, I have for years now. Such a treat to see sensible(and often funny) and fair responses to questions that are not always so simple. Good work, hope you keep going for a long time yet.
99
Fuck Burners. Or rather, don't.
Every single one is emotionally immature, self absorbed and TERRIBLE at life. Ugh. They're so unbearably lame.
They tend to excel at sex. I think because they have it, rather than watch a bunch of meaningless porn and jerk off.
Every single one is emotionally immature, self absorbed and TERRIBLE at life. Ugh. They're so unbearably lame.
They tend to excel at sex. I think because they have it, rather than watch a bunch of meaningless porn and jerk off.
100
*The Burners who've been going for at least 5 years. Can't say much about this years' crop o' folks.
101
@99: Really? The attendance for the Friday of 2012's Burning Man was 52,385. Naturally, they're all exactly the same.
102
@HBM, although many people do go to Burning Man with sex as a possibility and probability, as someone who has been to The Burn and is a Burner at heart, I can say that I have been to The Burn and other Burning Manesque type events and have not had sex with anyone, while I had someone at home that I was in a committed relationship with. Not every Burner is the same and wow is all I can say to @Ms. 11 for your out of control stereotyping.
103
I know I'm late to the party, but I would just like to state that I first got together with my now-husband a week before I went on a month-long trip to Europe, in which I had, before I met him, the stated intention of bedding down with at least one sexy Berliner (ooh, maybe a graffitti artist! How edgy!) (Hell, in Florence, I had my hostel room to myself; I could totally have seduced that barefoot classical guitarist on exchange from Oberlin. Dammit). However, because I had entered into a committed relationship a WEEK prior, I refrained from trolling for cock in any form. And everybody knows that "backpacking through Europe" is a direct equivalent of Burning Man for a different subculture.
My point is, if my horny-ass self can do that, she can avoid fucking anyone at Burning Man.
My point is, if my horny-ass self can do that, she can avoid fucking anyone at Burning Man.
104
Just have to chime in and agree that Dan's answer to HBM was disingenuous. There's a middle ground between airing your relationship dirty laundry publicly and not acknowledging your significant other's existence at all. HBM sounds a bit immature, but in this particular regard it seems completely understandable to want something other than those two extremes. Whether he has a good chance of getting what he wants from his current girlfriend is another matter.
105
For those of us who've gone to Burning Man, we know that it's not only a multi-day orgy...so i belive that part of what Dan was saying was more for impact than to paint the event with only one brush.
That said, Burning Man has changed dramatically over the years. Many moons ago it was a unique music festival - and at the risk of being bashed by other attendees - it was kind of like an west coast woodstock. Yes, free love was very common in earlier years - but it was much more a celebration of art, music and creative sub-culture.
Now, for better or worse, Burning Man has evolved from an arts festival and become more like a gay circuit party. And to dan's point, alot more folks go to BM who frequent "fantasy fest" in Key West than in the past.
Ok, all that said, for perennial BM attendees, there is a full, large and passionate group of folks who participate in online forums throughout the year. No different than most large social groups (SCA, Leather, BD/SM, etc) who have folks that use the internet to communicate thoughout the year. So for him to bust a vein over her posts was really short-sighted. She clearly uses BM forums as a way to be part of a community - not as a pretense to pull a sex-train during the event.
And, the reality is, you get out of BM what you put into it. If youre there to whore around, you're going to whore around. If you're going there to suspend reality for a few days, and meet old friends, meet new friends, see some incredible art and creative stuff - and great music - you'll never find a better place.
SOUNDS LIKE TRUST ISSUES HERE!
That said, Burning Man has changed dramatically over the years. Many moons ago it was a unique music festival - and at the risk of being bashed by other attendees - it was kind of like an west coast woodstock. Yes, free love was very common in earlier years - but it was much more a celebration of art, music and creative sub-culture.
Now, for better or worse, Burning Man has evolved from an arts festival and become more like a gay circuit party. And to dan's point, alot more folks go to BM who frequent "fantasy fest" in Key West than in the past.
Ok, all that said, for perennial BM attendees, there is a full, large and passionate group of folks who participate in online forums throughout the year. No different than most large social groups (SCA, Leather, BD/SM, etc) who have folks that use the internet to communicate thoughout the year. So for him to bust a vein over her posts was really short-sighted. She clearly uses BM forums as a way to be part of a community - not as a pretense to pull a sex-train during the event.
And, the reality is, you get out of BM what you put into it. If youre there to whore around, you're going to whore around. If you're going there to suspend reality for a few days, and meet old friends, meet new friends, see some incredible art and creative stuff - and great music - you'll never find a better place.
SOUNDS LIKE TRUST ISSUES HERE!
106
If you think it's happening, it prolly is. You are Mr. Homebody living your boring home life with your girlfriend, she is slutting at BM for kicks (there is possibly more going on there on the side, you know what they say about the quiet ones). You are most likely cuckholded and getting off on all of this or your would have left already (who lets their mate go to BM alone unless the relationship is open?).
So if it makes you happy, can't be that bad right? How many times did you jerk thinking about your girlfriend getting railed by a group of guys while she was a way and out of contact?
So if it makes you happy, can't be that bad right? How many times did you jerk thinking about your girlfriend getting railed by a group of guys while she was a way and out of contact?
107
This was one of your best columns. Great response to HBM. He needs to be honest about his insecurities, even if they do seem contradictory. A healthier path would be to nurture the social aspects of their relationship that he feels left out of.
And the idea of mutually agreeing to withhold sex is brilliant. Imagine the teasing....
Thanks for a good read today.
And the idea of mutually agreeing to withhold sex is brilliant. Imagine the teasing....
Thanks for a good read today.
109
I have no clue as to what kind relationship HBM is in (it really does matter) and any criticism and/or advice may or may not be justisfied.
Given the lack of information, I and everyone else commenting can only do so through the lense of their personal experiences and biases. HBM comes off as confused and really needs to "talk" to someone about his feelings/fears. In a healthy relationship that would be his partner, but once again I have no clue about his relationship. Seeking professional help might be better. Too many unknown variables to provide any concrete advice.
Given how important it apparently is to his partner, I have a hard time believing that he didn't take the time to find out what Burning Man was. Who doesn't have access to the web either personally or at a library? In 10+ years he's never attended the event? When she gets back HBM should suggest attending future events togetner. Her response/reaction should let him know if there is a problem or something to worry about (besides how they communicate)
Posting to an open on-line forum can be a real issue in a relationship. A lot depends on whether or not it is done anonymously. Unless it is one of you kinks, nobody really likes to be or feel publicly humiliated.
Given the lack of information, I and everyone else commenting can only do so through the lense of their personal experiences and biases. HBM comes off as confused and really needs to "talk" to someone about his feelings/fears. In a healthy relationship that would be his partner, but once again I have no clue about his relationship. Seeking professional help might be better. Too many unknown variables to provide any concrete advice.
Given how important it apparently is to his partner, I have a hard time believing that he didn't take the time to find out what Burning Man was. Who doesn't have access to the web either personally or at a library? In 10+ years he's never attended the event? When she gets back HBM should suggest attending future events togetner. Her response/reaction should let him know if there is a problem or something to worry about (besides how they communicate)
Posting to an open on-line forum can be a real issue in a relationship. A lot depends on whether or not it is done anonymously. Unless it is one of you kinks, nobody really likes to be or feel publicly humiliated.
110
Dan, I don't buy your logic of "there are plenty of people at Burning Man who would have sex with her even though they knew she was in a committed relationship, therefore hiding the relationship has nothing to do with sex at Burning Man. Yes, there are plenty of cheaters at Burning Man. But there are also plenty of honest sex-positive people, who would happily have sex with her if they didn't know she was in a committed relationship, but wouldn't if they knew she was cheating. If she just wanted to have sex with someone, anyone at all, at Burning Man, she could be public about her relationship. But it seems possible, even likely, to me, that she wants to have sex with particular people, friends of hers on the forum, and she is hiding her relationship with them because she doesn't want them to know about it.
It's perfectly reasonable for HBM not to be comfortable with every private detail of his personal life being aired in a public forum. I don't buy the idea that hiding his existence from her friends is a natural reaction to his wanting to have some privacy about some things.
It's perfectly reasonable for HBM not to be comfortable with every private detail of his personal life being aired in a public forum. I don't buy the idea that hiding his existence from her friends is a natural reaction to his wanting to have some privacy about some things.
111
@71: If you could get pregnant and experience natural childbirth, Hunter, you'd be putting an abortion clinic on every street corner.
112
As a man who dated a heavily devoted Burning Man woman for the better part of 4 years...my advice is to STEER CLEAR! I could write a short book about how lame the situation was. I basically became a reluctant cuckold...in all aspects of our life.
113
I went to Burning Man for the first time this year. As a single 31yo straight male I thought (hoped) that sex would be a large part of my experience, but it wasn't. I became so enthralled in my camp and the art and the dancing and, yes, the drugs, that sex wasn't something I was actively seeking out. I discovered that just as I don't like hook up culture at home, I didn't love it there. I like knowing the people I sleep with. At Burning Man sex can be had more easily than in every day life, you still do have to seek it out. It's not just one big pile of hippies fucking each other (for better or worse). I had several partnered friends, some there with their partners, some alone, and they had no problem not having sex. There's so many other things to be doing at Burning Man it almost seems like a waste to be having sex - you can do that back home, and in a bed after showering.
On a side note (and to brag), I did finally have sex on the last day, with a camp mate I'd been friends with all week. She came back to my home in LA for three days after burning man where we had nonstop unbelievable GGG sex. She said one of her big attractions to me was my openness and honesty when it came to communicating about sex and relationships, which I entirely attribute to being a savage love reader (she is now a fan as well). Thank you Dan for getting another one of your readers laid!
On a side note (and to brag), I did finally have sex on the last day, with a camp mate I'd been friends with all week. She came back to my home in LA for three days after burning man where we had nonstop unbelievable GGG sex. She said one of her big attractions to me was my openness and honesty when it came to communicating about sex and relationships, which I entirely attribute to being a savage love reader (she is now a fan as well). Thank you Dan for getting another one of your readers laid!
114
Weight loss is so popular now all over the world. I even took adipex 7 yaers ago. Now I think it's not so important
RSS
Twitter
Comments (115) RSS