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Loaded Questions

September 19, 2012

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Healthy straight male here. The problem is twofold: My girlfriend doesn't like come in her mouth and she feels that doggy-style is objectifying to women. Therefore, we don't do either. She says she wants to get more comfortable and try these things. But they never seem to happen-and when I bring them up, it turns into a touchy discussion. These are #1 and #2, respectively, on my list of favorite things to do in the bedroom, and I'm not okay with not doing them indefinitely. The sex is otherwise great, but I do think there's a double standard at work here. She had an ex who refused to go down on her. When I said, "He needed to man up and take one for the team, even if he didn't like it," she readily agreed with me. So why can't she "take one for the team" and swallow my come? I would feel bad if she were doing something she wasn't comfortable with, but it disappoints me when she takes my dick out of her mouth and points it at my stomach when I start to come. I think she has a double standard.

Really Anxious Not Doing Yearnings

P.S. We've been dating only about three months, so I understand there is plenty of time for her to get more comfortable. I love being with her, I can't get enough of her, and I can see this becoming a lifelong relationship. But I don't want to have to miss out on my bedroom favorites for the rest of my life.

The comparison you're making between your girlfriend and her ex isn't really fair. Your girlfriend's ex-boyfriend refused to go down on her. Not only does your girlfriend go down on you, RANDY, she's getting you off. Her blowjobs may not wrap up the way you'd like—with her swallowing your come—but you are getting blowjobs.

Sorry, RANDY, but where you see a double standard on the girlfriend's part, I see only whining on yours. Swallowing is extra credit. It's not a course requirement. I say this as someone who gives and receives blowjobs: If someone sucks your dick until you come, you got your damn blowjob. What a blower does with the blowee's come after the blowjob is over—spit, swallow, spread it on toast—is the blower's call to make.

And your girlfriend may have a good reason for not swallowing your come, RANDY. Semen contains prostaglandins—"a group of lipid compounds that are derived enzymatically from fatty acids and have important functions in the animal body," says Wiki—and some people experience explosive diarrhea shortly after ingesting the prostaglandins in semen. It's possible that your girlfriend isn't swallowing because she doesn't want to have to run to the bathroom two minutes later and take a noisy shit while her new boyfriend listens in the next room.

Or, hey, maybe your girlfriend just doesn't like the way semen tastes. Or maybe she's had boyfriends in the past who "lost control" and shoved their dicks down her throat as they came. Or maybe swallowing turns her off for the same reason that doggy-style does, i.e., she sees it as objectifying and/or degrading. And maybe if you're patient, RANDY, your girlfriend will come around and your #1 and #2 favorite sex things will enter into regular rotation.

Of course, it's possible that your girlfriend is lying to you. People have been known to make vague and insincere promises about all the blowjobs, three-ways, and kinks they'll get into once they "feel more comfortable" with a new partner. Your girlfriend, like so many other girlfriends and boyfriends before her, may be trying to run out the clock. She may hope that by the time you realize she's never going to do your bedroom favorites, you'll be too emotionally invested in the relationship to dump her.


I'm a female in my mid-20s who loves to give head. The problem is, I think I'm giving head too soon and guys don't see me as relationship material. I've been in only one relationship that was longer than a casual hookup, and that particular ex was a she-comes-first/worship-the-pussy kinda guy. (I didn't get to touch his dick until we were about a month in!) Most of the straight girls I hang out with believe that a guy needs to earn getting his dick sucked. My gay friends don't see the problem. My straight guy friends chuckle and say "depends" when I ask if I'm blowing a guy too soon. I really enjoy sucking dick, so once I'm horny, it's so hard to resist the impulse. How soon is too soon? Do you think that I would actually benefit by stopping this pattern?

Blowing Losers Or What?

Generally, BLOW, I believe a person should do what she likes—and if you like giving head, give head. And if getting head scares a boy off, well, he was the wrong boy for you. (I'm having a hard time picturing a guy who wouldn't want to date a woman who enjoys giving head—are there many guys like that out there?) But there's a simple way to find out if the guys you're meeting make date/dump distinctions between girls who blow 'em right away and girls who make 'em wait: Stop sucking guys off on the first date and see if they stick around longer.


I had to write after reading your response to Wanted Toys Too, the aunt who wanted to buy her niece a dildo. I was once a teenage girl whose older cousin tried to "help me out" this way, and I was mortified. WTT wants to get her niece a sex toy, she said, because WTT experimented with a plastic banana when she was a girl because she didn't want "a penis to be the first thing of substance put in [her] vagina." Guess what? That is exactly what I wanted, so I had no need for a dildo, and I had access to plenty of good sex advice! Advice that I asked for! This aunt is projecting her crap on her niece! She should back off and mind her own business.

MYOB About Sex

You goofed in your reply to WTT. Instead of getting information from sex-shop owners, why didn't you get information from a mental health expert? We're talking about a 14-year-old who is emotionally fragile as she struggles through the years of defining self and understanding her own sexuality! Here's what you should've told WTT: "Back off. See a therapist. Get a boyfriend. Get a hobby. MYOB, Auntie."

EE, LMSW

In fairness to WTT, MYOBAS and EELMSW, WTT had her niece's mother's permission to get her daughter a sex toy. My mother encouraged her kids to talk with one of her sisters about any sexual issues we weren't comfortable discussing with our parents, so... it's possible that WTT's niece has expressed an interest in a sex toy of her very own. It's also possible that (1) WTT's niece hasn't expressed an interest in a sex toy and would be mortified by the offer, and (2) my response to WTT was colored by my own relationship with my sex-question-answering aunt. With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, to say nothing of a file full of angry e-mails, I'll amend my advice to WTT with this: If your niece hasn't asked for help, info, or a sex toy, better to MYOB.


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Comments (247) RSS

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1
Re: RANDY -- If she dislikes the taste of come, then sorry, that's off the table, in my book. Making someone swallow something that makes them gag is a douchebag maneuver. (And, for me, would be a boner-killer. I don't know about you, but I get off on being desired, and any hint of distaste for the proceedings makes me say, "Fuck, never mind; forget the whole thing.")

You don't get to counter with refusing to go down on her, either, to make the point about taking one for the team. I'm assuming that you are not disgusted by coating your face with vaginal juice the way she is disgusted by having a big glob of nasty taste and alarming texture blasted down her throat. Completely different experiences.

On the other hand, the whole "doggy-style is objectifying to women" thing is pseudo-feminist bullshit. Unless she has caught YOU objectifying women with doggy-style, then it's just one more sex position. (One that feels pretty damned good for both partners, too, so she is cutting off her nose to spite her face.) The truth is that ANY sex position is potentially objectifying, depending on the person doing it. Would she object to receiving oral, if the guy giving it was obviously perving on her crotch?
Posted by avast2006 on September 18, 2012 at 6:26 PM · Report this
2
1-A correct response to RANDY
2-As for “I'm having a hard time picturing a guy who wouldn't want to date a woman who enjoys giving head—are there many guys like that out there?”
The answer, my friend, is blowing… in the wind.
A resounding “NO” indeed, which means BLOW may have some other things going on that may deter blowees from continuing dating her.
Posted by fif on September 18, 2012 at 6:31 PM · Report this
3
As I read RANDY's post, I am reminded of a close friend of mine whose girlfriend at the time had similar hangups about sex, particularly with blowjobs or any her-back-to-his-front positions. After a while she began refusing to have sex of any form, claiming that sex was "degrading to women" and that "men are just horny pigs who make sex a chore." (she said this to my face). They ultimately broke up when her secret girlfriend of 2 and a half years outed her to everyone in their social circle.

RANDY, I am so very sorry, but I sincerely believe from the bottom of my heart that your girlfriend may be a lesbian in denial. Either that or she has been sexually abused and failed to confide or come to terms with it, instead taking it out on you. The two of you need to have a VERY frank discussion about her hangups, because they are there for a reason you may wind up having to pay the price for if you don't.
Posted by LeananAquarius on September 18, 2012 at 6:37 PM · Report this
4
I would tell RANDY to get himself a new girl. It sounds like he really likes sex and it sounds like she really doesn't all that much. The whole "objectifying to women" bullcrap is, well, bullcrap. Sex isn't objectifying to women unless women think that it's the right of the man and the duty of the woman. Fuck that. Sure, he can say he's really into her emotionally, but is that the truth? I think it's a case of "looks best on the hanger" -- if you don't think it's killer awesome to die for now, you're not going to think that later.

...that said, I have had boys that I was totally in love with who weren't all that into getting head while I love giving it. But they always indulged me, even though it wasn't their thing. I think this is a workable situation, but "wait until I'm ready" is (again) bullcrap.
Posted by PinkieB on September 18, 2012 at 6:50 PM · Report this
5
@2: I am not aware of a general trend of guys who don't like girls who give head. However, I am aware of a general trend of guys who consider a girl who puts out sexually on the first date to be not relationship material, because she is too easy. These guys are hypocritical assholes -- if giving a blowjob on a first date is a fatal character flaw, then what exactly is getting a blowjob on a first date? -- and you are well rid of them.

FWIW, I hear that same line of crap from women as well, that a woman who puts out on the first date is a slut. I'm not so sure what their motivation would be. Fear of the competition, maybe?
Posted by avast2006 on September 18, 2012 at 6:53 PM · Report this
6
#3 - Wow, so all girls who don't like to swallow are lesbians or sexually abused? MAKES TOTAL SENSE.

Not. How about they just don't like it? I'm totally okay with swallowing, so I cannot relate, but sometimes girls just don't like to swallow, for no other reason than the taste. And they should have that right without people psychoanalyzing them with no proof.
Posted by Eversist on September 18, 2012 at 6:55 PM · Report this
mydriasis 7
LW1: That's rough, dude - those are my favourites too.

I have never been able to understand the "don't come in my mouth" thing. What's up with that? I find something so.... sad about a guy coming into thin air. Pulling out (whether with oral or PIV) is so unappealing to me. Also, I'm pretty sure doggy-style was invented by angels to make the world a better place.

LW2: " that particular ex was a she-comes-first/worship-the-pussy kinda guy. (I didn't get to touch his dick until we were about a month in!)"

Wowwww. It's like someone genetically engineered the exact opposite of what I want in a man. That's awful. If I dated a guy and he "didn't let" me touch his dick for a month? He wouldn't make it two weeks. Bleh.

On the positive side, I'm sure most women love him.
Posted by mydriasis on September 18, 2012 at 7:19 PM · Report this
mydriasis 8
@avast

"she is disgusted by having a big glob of nasty taste and alarming texture blasted down her throat"

Um, that WOULD be alarming, if that's at all what swallowing was like. Has that been your experience? Or ar you just assuming.

Semen should be fairly innocuous in flavour unless the person smokes* or has an especially atrocious diet, or perhaps a medical condition.

*cigarettes, marijuana's fine.
Posted by mydriasis on September 18, 2012 at 7:23 PM · Report this
Tim Horton 9
BLOW - enthusiastic blowjobs, like Christmas morning for four year olds, can never arrive soon enough. The vast majority of men put first date awesome blowjobs in the plus column. While there are bound to be exceptions to the rule, We Are The 99%
Posted by Tim Horton on September 18, 2012 at 7:23 PM · Report this
I Hate Screen Names 10
Quoth Randy:
So why can't she "take one for the team" and swallow my come? I would feel bad if she were doing something she wasn't comfortable with, but it disappoints me when she takes my dick out of her mouth and points it at my stomach when I start to come.

Maybe I'm misreading this, but it seems like there are two things RANDY is complaining about: 1) she doesn't swallow his come, and 2) she doesn't let him come in her mouth. Dan only addressed the first one, and I completely agree with that response. After the orgasm, a blower is free to do whatever s/he wants with the come.

But what about making him come on his stomach instead of her mouth? Maybe I'm off-base here, but a blowjob that doesn't end in the blower's mouth is a decidedly inferior blowjob. So I think he does have a valid complaint about how the blowjob ends. He does not have any valid complaint about what happens afterwards.

Am I alone in thinking that a blowjob that doesn't end in her (or his) mouth is a crappy blowjob?
Posted by I Hate Screen Names on September 18, 2012 at 7:34 PM · Report this
11
When guys start digging into the vagina and slurping down handfuls of eggwhite cervical mucus as part of cunnilingus, then they can start asking women to try swallowing semen. Vaginal juices=pre-come NOT semen.
Posted by EclecticEel on September 18, 2012 at 7:36 PM · Report this
12
Wait. Why would anyone consider doing doggy-style if she really did think it was objectifying to women? That doesn't make any sense. On the other hand, taking some time to get used to a new thing DOES make sense. Seems like something where talking it through to find out what aspect of the position actually bothers her might help, given that she did say she wanted to get more comfortable with it.

For instance, if the position feels less intimate to her because you can't see each other, ask her if there are any other things the two of you could do that might make the face-to-back cuddling more intimate.

If she really doesn't want to, period, she doesn't have to, of course, but then she should decide what she wants and say so honestly. Like most differences over sex, this is 99% about the communication and only 1% about the naughty bits.
Posted by Eirene on September 18, 2012 at 7:39 PM · Report this
mydriasis 13
@ 10
"Am I alone in thinking that a blowjob that doesn't end in her (or his) mouth is a crappy blowjob?"

No, you're not alone.

@ 11

And I'd prefer semen in my mouth (neatly swallowed, no mess) to vaginal fluid smeared all over my face - your point?

@12
"For instance, if the position feels less intimate to her because you can't see each other"

Homegirl can look over her shoulder, he's right there.

Posted by mydriasis on September 18, 2012 at 7:43 PM · Report this
14
@8: I've only ever tasted my own. Yes, it is pretty bland. (And it seems to be even blander since the vasectomy. I might be making that up, though; I haven't made a study of this, just once or twice out of curiosity. The second time was in response to a recent Savage Love discussion.) I'm going off reports I have read from women describing their experiences as bitter, alkaline, salty, chlorine. (I say that last one was blowing an alien.)

It is a pretty gross texture, too: rather like having a head cold and no handkerchief, sniffing energetically, and getting a mouthful of snot to deal with. Pretty close to the taste of snot, too. All in all, not something I could blame someone for not wanting to swallow.

I remember one time in college, getting Chinese take-out for lunch. Broccoli with scallop sauce, I think it was. Two bites in, the thought popped up: "hey, that kind of tastes like..." I couldn't finish it.
Posted by avast2006 on September 18, 2012 at 7:45 PM · Report this
15
mydriasis@8, to some of us the taste really is awful, period, not to mention the texture. It's not just the guy's metabolism or diet or whatever (though those do make a difference).
Posted by Eirene on September 18, 2012 at 7:49 PM · Report this
mydriasis 16
@14

You don't swallow your own phlegm? Personally, I wouldn't say semen's anywhere near as viscous. Besides, if they're coming at the top of your throat (or, preferably, IN your throat) you spend very little time experiencing the texture as most bypasses your mouth anyway. I'd say it's wayyy more like miso soup.

Posted by mydriasis on September 18, 2012 at 7:55 PM · Report this
mydriasis 17
@15

I honestly find that surprising. I was an extremely picky eater growing up and I'm still VERY texture-sensitive. If I eat yogurt, pudding, etc, I have to have like a quarter of a spoonful at a time to not feel repulsed. Which makes me wonder if it's more of a psychological thing.
Posted by mydriasis on September 18, 2012 at 7:58 PM · Report this
18
avast2006: chlorine is not an alien thing. I suspect those of us who get the chlorine/baking soda/other seriously bitter flavor are tasting something other people don't.

mydriasis, you must be way more flexible than I am. I either wouldn't be able to turn round far enough to see much, or I'd get a serious crick in my neck -- not very conducive to ardent glances. In any case it was just an example; that may not be her issue whatsoever.
Posted by Eirene on September 18, 2012 at 8:02 PM · Report this
mydriasis 19
@ Eirene

Huh. Interesting. I like taking a peek, it's a nice view. Maybe I still have flexibility from cheerleading somehow.

Point being - don't try to bend your neck when it doesn't want to bend!!! But you knew that.

I think some women (and men) take all of their sex-negativity and concentrate it on certain acts (ones that are popular with men, of course, because male sexuality is obviously bad and evil and an affront to women). Instead of seeing all sex as dirty and degrading they only see certain KINDS of (vanilla) sex as dirty and degrading. Gives them an outlet for all pearl-clutching and an excuse to bust out the smelling salts. Same reason a guy might judge a girl for giving head early in a relationship even if he's too "evolved" to judge her for having sex early in a relationship.
Posted by mydriasis on September 18, 2012 at 8:13 PM · Report this
mydriasis 20
@Eirene

Oh also, sorry, the science nerd in me couldn't resist. If I'm not mistaken, chlorine doesn't have a taste. It has a smell. Chloride doesn't really activate a taste receptor that I know of. As for bitterness/baking soda (same receptor, in this case, I believe), it's possible that there's some substance causing that taste.

But honestly, I think people who have a bad first experience are reluctant to expand their sample pool and just assume all semen tastes bad. I've definitely noticed a range, myself.
Posted by mydriasis on September 18, 2012 at 8:23 PM · Report this
thecheesegirl 21
I dated a guy once who had the most TERRIBLE tasting come; it was so bad that I would not let him come in my mouth. My husband's, on the other hand, is downright pleasant, and I'll swallow his gladly, even if he didn't come in my mouth to begin with (which is odd, because my husband's diet is not all that much healthier than the other guy, plus he smokes and my ex didn't). So it could just be that RANDY's come tastes like drain cleaner.
Posted by thecheesegirl on September 18, 2012 at 8:28 PM · Report this
22
@16: "You don't swallow your own phlegm?"

Well, yes, but that doesn't mean I _enjoy_ it. Especially not a huge freaking gob of it. If the situation allows for it (e.g., restroom, outdoors) I prefer to spit that out. And yes, I'm aware that I'm swallowing mucus in smaller quantities all day long, something like up to a quart a day. It's really about the experience of having to deal with the big goober.

Miso soup, eh? Ah, right. You and your guy have sex a lot, don't you? When you go a day or more between ejaculations, it can be viscous. (But it gets runny after 30-45 minutes. One theory is that helps with retention for insemination, but then dissolves to allow freer sperm mobility.) More frequent ejaculations tend to not be viscous.

I'll take your word for it on the fluid dynamics of the throat.

Also, I can sympathize with the whole "positions not being intimate enough" thing. For example you might be able to see your partner, but not be able to kiss them, and sometimes that might feel important. Probably not enough to refuse to do that position ever, but it can make it less appealing at times. Hopefully the position has other charms to recommend it. (Example: doggy being very good at both glans and g-spot stimulation.)
Posted by avast2006 on September 18, 2012 at 8:30 PM · Report this
23
@13 "Homegirl can look over her shoulder, he's right there."
Do you REALLY not see how looking over your shoulder at a guy is not as intimate as staring into his face which is three inches away?
I say this as a girl whose favorite position is doggy style, but it's definitely much less intimate. If intimacy were a big part of enjoying sex (it's not for me) I can see how that would be a major flaw.
Not saying she shouldn't try it. Just saying telling her to "look over her shoulder" isn't going to help.

Posted by smoakes on September 18, 2012 at 8:35 PM · Report this
24
Maybe LW1's girlfriend has issues with him for different reasons and that's why doggy-style (and possibly even swallowing) is refused. For example: I'll do way, way more for/with a partner who is genuinely a nice guy, but I only keep things mildly interesting for someone whose attitude about women or has aspects of their personality I really don't like. LW1 reads like a bit of a manipulative douche, so perhaps she's attracted to him, but she doesn't like him enough to indulge him in anything she thinks will make him feel superior. In short, maybe she's just not that into him and he should take the hint and move on.
Posted by choo-choo on September 18, 2012 at 8:45 PM · Report this
25
On the question of doggie style, seems worth talking about a bit more, to see how to approach getting her more comfortable with it.

They could try having her come on all fours, from oral or fingering or vibrator... Then they could add a dildo or his fingers penetrating her, while he's under her to provide face-to-face intimacy.

They could also experiment with other rear-entry positions: spooning, or her lying flat on her stomach, or bent over a chair, or facing a standing mirror...
Posted by EricaP on September 18, 2012 at 9:12 PM · Report this
26
Geez, maybe Randy's girlfriend doesn't want to expose herself to STDs before she is sure of Randy's STD status. They have only been together a few months after all. I am surprised Dan did not bring this up. And maybe when she feels more secure in the relationship, she might feel more comfortable with doggy style. She probably feels objectified because she is young, maybe inexperienced, and this position offers less intimacy. When I was young I thought this way. Now it's my favorite position.
And speaking of stds, I hope BLOW isn't blowing without a condom on first dates.
Posted by rachelbobachel on September 18, 2012 at 9:15 PM · Report this
27
Suggestion for RANDY's girlfriend: At the moment you pull him out of your mouth, switch to a full-on handjob. That ought to make his happy ending a good deal happier.

I can understand why he'd be disappointed if she just pulled away and stopped to watch. Following through when the fireworks start is what makes the difference between a good orgasm and a fantastic one.
Posted by avast2006 on September 18, 2012 at 9:16 PM · Report this
28
As for BLOW, I'm a fan of first-date blow jobs too, but if that's all you know how to do when out with a guy, it might be worth expanding your repertoire.

I'd advise her to go on at least some other kinds of dates, in the middle of the day maybe, or at the zoo with kids around. If the circumstances aren't conducive to blow jobs, then she might get useful information about what is or isn't working about her dating approach.
Posted by EricaP on September 18, 2012 at 9:17 PM · Report this
29
I am a woman who likes doggy style, because I have realized that FOR ME it works really well. I can also understand how it can seem to be highly objectifying to other women, and if they don't like it for that reason, I totally think they should decline to do it. I also find guys who are TOO into pretty creepy.

I would point out though, that it is a position that puts the tip of the penis in range of most women's G-spots, frequently leaves one hand free for tits or clit, allows the woman control of angle during penetration, and gives her the opportunity to score some light nipple sensation off the bed sheets, if she wants that.

Doggy style CAN be degrading, but I do not believe it to be inherently so.

And I like the taste of come, preferably with a wine chaser. But no one should either taste or swallow if they don't want to.
Posted by catherine_si on September 18, 2012 at 9:26 PM · Report this
30
"when I bring them up, it turns into a touchy discussion." They've been dating THREE months. He's hounding her to do something she's uncomfortable with. That's not how you help someone get over his/her hangups. If it were longer and he'd let it go for at least a month at a time, that would be one thing, but my guess is he's "only" mentioning it every week or so. Don't worry, guy, just keep it up and she won't be your problem anymore.
Posted by newhere on September 18, 2012 at 9:34 PM · Report this
31
I think savage missed the point... the girl has a double standard because when she doesn't want to do something it's "objectifying" but when a guy doesn't want to do something he should just do it anyway to please the woman.

But cum can taste pretty awful. Over the years with different guys I have found the taste to be nauseatingly bitter and salty, to mild but still rather unpleasant. Maybe she can compromise by taking it in her mouth but not swallowing.

The buying a sex toy for a 14 year old thing last week was baffling, good amendment on his part. There are so many girls older than that who are mortified at the thought of putting in a tampon or a finger up there. When I was a 14 year old girl I was as comfortable as can be with sex, downright shameless come to think of it, but I would have never wanted an adult giving me sex toys.

As for chicks who complain about guys dumping them soon after getting sex/blowjobs, usually it's just some combination of the chick having a terrible personality, and/or her picking slutty men who aren't interested in a relationship anyway.
Posted by pagan slut on September 18, 2012 at 9:50 PM · Report this
32
You goofed in your reply to WTT. Instead of getting information from sex-shop owners, why didn't you get information from a mental health expert? We're talking about a 14-year-old who is emotionally fragile as she struggles through the years of defining self and understanding her own sexuality! Here's what you should've told WTT: "Back off. See a therapist. Get a boyfriend. Get a hobby. MYOB, Auntie."

EE, LMSW


Am I the only one looking at that last response letter and saying "WTF? A 14-year-old girl has natural curiosity about sex, including practical questions, and your first response is to tell her to see a therapist? Wow! Sex-negative much? It's not mental illness, it's called being 14, going through puberty and having a bunch of completely understandable questions! If she didn't solicit or wouldn't appreciate her aunt's advice, that's one thing (though the original LW sure made it sound like the niece sought her out). But jeez Louise, there are plenty of books and websites to refer her to before jumping to therapy.

But no one else said anything, so I have to wonder, is it just me?
Posted by Pope Buck I on September 18, 2012 at 10:24 PM · Report this
33
@RANDY:

Dude, if you're 3 months into a relationship and you're not still giving it all ya got to impress the other person, then:

1) Becoming "more comfortable" later on will not fix things. You're at the most passionate point in any relationship.

2) You're just not into that person.

And I say this, having married a woman who at the beginning of our relationship just wouldn't even have sex with the lights on. It took me breaking up with her to drop her silly inhibitions.

But I don't think this girl will *ever* be into swallowing or doggy style. And you're probably looking for someone who's really *into* those things, not someone who's up for taking one for the team.
Posted by gromm on September 18, 2012 at 10:28 PM · Report this
34
Excellent advice to RANDY, Dan!
I never liked the taste or texture of come in my mouth, either.
I guess it was because the guys I sucked off did have a tendency
to ram it down my throat.
Posted by auntie grizelda on September 18, 2012 at 10:30 PM · Report this
35
@32: Dude, he's telling the aunt to seek therapy for the issues she still has with sex when growing up. Said 14 year old did not write the letter.
Posted by gromm on September 18, 2012 at 10:30 PM · Report this
Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In 36
Am I the only one who thinks the comment "degrading to women" is far more important than swallowing? Dan obviously feels that swallowing is the Sole Issue, and once that's worked out, everything else falls into place.

I call bullshit, Dan. I don't do that very often, but I think you're a little skewed in your perspective.

Projecting issues of sexism onto a sexual position is a practice for the Moral Police. It is a clear sign that said person has issues over their sexuality. Issues like guilt, shame, disgust, what have you. If she's all that, RANDY, then tell her to drop the Dworkin literature and get herself to a therapist.

And also, back the fuck off in bed. Pressure will only increase the distance between you two. If by doing so, you discover she's not all that? DTMFA.
Posted by Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In on September 18, 2012 at 10:50 PM · Report this
37
@BLOW:

The majority of guys like blowjobs more than they like relationships. If they can get the former without bothering with the latter, then they will.

The question is, if you like giving blowjobs, why is this a problem? You can certainly stop giving blowjobs unless it's with someone you're in a relationship with, but it isn't going to get you any more relationships and is going to get you less blowjob-giving opportunities.
Posted by biggie on September 18, 2012 at 10:52 PM · Report this
38
@11: I get the impression you have not eaten much vagina. Most of the time, you are going to get quite a bit of fluid in your mouth, not to mention all over your face.

@26: STDs are not a reason to not allow come-in-mouth. The chances of oral transmission of STDs is small, and if you're worried about it, the correct solution is a condom. If she's willing to put an uncovered penis in her mouth, where the cum goes after that has a tiny impact on STD risks.
Posted by biggie on September 18, 2012 at 11:00 PM · Report this
Roofeo 39
I was all for the sex positive Aunt who wanted to make sure her niece was educated and so forth. Sure, you have to be careful how you approach it, but today's sex ed is so inadequate, it's well needed.

And offering (over giving), a sex toy is a great idea. "Hey look, the opportunity to safely experiment with your sexuality at your leisure!"

"Or not, up to you!"
Posted by Roofeo on September 18, 2012 at 11:51 PM · Report this
Roofeo 40
I actually was all for the sex positive aunt who wanted to make sure her niece was educated and so forth. Lord knows that today's sex ed is wholly inadequate. You just need to make sure you approach it right.

And offering teenage girls (note: not thrusting upon them), their own sex toy is a great idea. "Hey look, here's your opportunity to safely explore your sexuality at your leisure."

"Or not. Up to you!"
Posted by Roofeo on September 19, 2012 at 12:03 AM · Report this
41
Re: Doggy style and degradation:

If your first intro to doggy style sex is porn like the bang bro's, then yes, it is wholly motherfucking degrading. Even the name is obnoxious. Tack on the absolute dorks who make doggy style jokes and that's a recipe for never EVAH wanting to try it. I felt similarly for years.

Then I tried it with someone who I liked, he liked me, and...it was fun :) What pissed me off was all the degrading culture around "doggy style" and to #1 who said was "psuedo-feminist bullshit", nope, not really. It really is a turn off to have nerds feel like they can "dominate" you because you're female.

The swallowing thing? Totally agree with the woman -- it's her preference. And again, doggy & swallowing are used as tools of domination in movies, music, a lot of shizz. It's not the act, but the attitude that surrounds it. They aren't EXCLUSIVE to domination, but check out porn, listen to the way some guys talk about it -- if that's what she's been around or if that how this dude acts, can totally see why both would be a turn off.

Hopefully, she'll give it a shot to make you happy, but if not, just close your eyes and pretend. :)
Posted by Ms.11 on September 19, 2012 at 12:05 AM · Report this
Roofeo 42
Pardon the double post above --

I also doubt Auntie needs therapy. C'mon... it's normal for people to be motivated by their past to help. Just as MYOBAS was motivated by her past to slam her.

Posted by Roofeo on September 19, 2012 at 12:09 AM · Report this
43
@12 - perfect advice!
Posted by Ms.11 on September 19, 2012 at 12:14 AM · Report this
OutInBumF 44
I'm gay, don't care all that much about receiving blowjobs (never come) and definitely do not care to swallow. Cannot stand the taste of the stuff, either mine or his, and it doesn't matter how rev'd up I might be at the time.
HOWEVER, pulling my mouth off a coming dick and letting it jiz on its own is just plain rude! You keep the dick in your mouth until it's done. You don't have to swallow- just let the stuff fall out of your mouth, spit it in his, or spit into a rag. Moving further off the dick, so only your lips are on the head can help the gagging during the coming process, too.
Anything less is indeed a crappy blowjob. RANDY's girl has sex issues from his description, at the very least they have incompatible sex drives. RANDY- DTMFA and find a nice sex-positive woman to give your emotions to.
Posted by OutInBumF on September 19, 2012 at 12:28 AM · Report this
45
Until the hockey lockout is over do we even need doggie-style?
Posted by CrazyCanuck on September 19, 2012 at 4:06 AM · Report this
46
wow, so disliking swallowing and one sex position makes you a lesbian now?

My guess: she perviously dated a giant dick who only wanted it doggy style and was a lazy lover who preferred to be sucked off. Or maybe she's currently dating that dick.

I dated that guy and my poor, patient husband had to wait a year for a blow job. Now he gets them. He was understanding and never asked me to "take one for the team," because he knew that I felt I was manipulated by a partner who wasn't GGG in the past.
Posted by mvminneapolis2007 on September 19, 2012 at 4:44 AM · Report this
smajor82 47
RANDY: Try a spooning position first. Much more intimate and very very similar.
Posted by smajor82 on September 19, 2012 at 4:51 AM · Report this
48
For BLOW-- One way to think about feminism is that straight feminist women know what they like in the sexual realm and seek men who enjoy that with them. If you look at it that way, then you like giving blowjobs, and are baffled as to why men who like getting blowjobs don't like to keep getting blowjobs from you. It's easy to put the blame on the men.

Now reframe it. Feminist women think about what they want and the best way to get it. In this case, what you want is changing. You're thinking you'd like more of a long term relationship with a man you have more in common with than just blowjobs. Great! How do you get it? Your previous strategy doesn't seem to be working, and you're on the right track when you wonder if you're jumping into blowjobs a little too soon.

Do NOT think that "making the guy wait" is manipulative games playing or playing hard to get. It's more like showing yourself to be thoughtful, intelligent, patient, and capable of weighing pros and cons. These are attractive qualities. Just as you don't jump at the first job you can get and instead go to lots of interviews and consider many offers, you wait.

Specifics. First, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th dates are about getting to know each other in a variety of settings: dinner, movie, party, dancing, picnic, lecture, sports activity like tennis or swimming. This gives you a chance to observe how your applicant interacts with other people, how he treats waiters, how he moves, how he responds to externals, what he has to talk about. It's fine if you initiate some of the get-togethers by extending an invitation, not fine if you badger him by extending several invitations in a row after he's refused one. Asking over and over doesn't make him feel wanted. It makes him feel badgered, like you're not getting it when he says he needs to work or honor a previous commitment.

After a first kiss, think about whether you'd like a 2nd. This is an important decision, so give it some time. Then proceed like this. By all means show enthusiasm when you enjoy something (like blowjobs), but do not give him the idea that you're needy.

I know that I'm likely to take some flack with this post because someone will accuse me of recommending The Rules. (I've heard of it, never read it.) Honest, I'm not suggesting manipulation or dishonesty. I'm seeing this as moving towards something that you say want without taking advantage of anyone.

More...
Posted by Crinoline on September 19, 2012 at 5:44 AM · Report this
mydriasis 49
@21
Interesting!

@avast

Sure but I'm not basing my statements off one person though. When I was a teenager I definitely went through a variety. I found that "meh, tastes like not much of anything, or maybe just salty" was WAY more common than "ew, what the fuck is that", which I found was pretty rare.

As for doggy style and the whole intimacy thing... first of all - people still change positions when they have sex, right? Like I can understand her not wanting that to be the only way she has sex but a little doggy between positions isn't going to magically turn that experience into some sort of cold, detached disappointment. Especially if she's never tried it, she might find that it's so pleasurable it's worth the fact that she's not staring at him. Also - though someone might correct me again by saying that this is a flexibility issue - doggie can incorporate kissing if he wants to come down for a minute or if she wants to pop up off her hands. It's actually a lot of fun.

@23

Is it 'as intimate'? No. I just wanted to point out that doggie does not preclude eye contact. But I also don't like to use physical intimacy as a surrogate for emotional intimacy so I don't really get why some people are hung up on how intimate x or y position is. It's like god forbid you sacrifice a modicum of physical proximity to your partner for five or ten minutes during sex so that they can have an experience they really enjoy. I would say that a partner who is unconcerned with your pleasure and satisfaction kind of saps the intimacy out of a relationship - some people like feeling that their partner cares about their needs.

@26

As someone mentioned before, she's blowing him without a condom (thus exposing herself to STIs). Pre-ejaculate carries syphilis, gonorrhea, and I'm pretty sure HIV as well. Also, the skin of the penis can transmit herpes and/or HPV. Sooo I'm going to guess that's not the reason (and if it is, she needs to bone up on her sex ed).
More...
Posted by mydriasis on September 19, 2012 at 6:32 AM · Report this
50
Yes, there are men that don't like blowjobs.....just ask my EX husband. Note the emphasis on EX! I have had no complaints since becoming single.
Posted by SouthernGirl on September 19, 2012 at 6:53 AM · Report this
sonic_reducer 51
@45. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
@ Everyone else. Thank you, I enjoyed everyone's viewpoints.

Savage Love is so wonderful.

Thanks as always!
Posted by sonic_reducer on September 19, 2012 at 7:00 AM · Report this
52
LW1 is being a whiny bitch. If it's a deal-breaker for him he should stop whining and dump her. His double standard argument is bs, but he doesn't need anything more than "this is a dealbreaker for me" to justify dumping her over it if that's what he wants.

If LW1's gf feels objectified with doggie style and possibly also by being asked to take his come in her mouth and swallow it, there are two major possibilities: 1) she's got some hang-ups about sex, or 2) he treats her in a way that makes her feel objectified. In the former case, there's probably not much he can do about it and if it's a deal-breaker for him he should just dump her. But if it's the latter, perhaps he should try not acting like a dick. Does he argue with her (he says he brings it up) about why she 'should' or 'owes it to him' take his come in his mouth/take it on her knees from behind? If so, maybe that's where her feelings of objectification are coming from.

As for the concerned auntie... Teenagers aren't so mentally fragile and delicate that a gently-put offer of paying for the sex toy of their choice (preferably in writing) would traumatize them for life. Come the fuck on.

At 14, I would not have asked no matter how much I wanted, because the idea of having to approach somebody to discuss such a subject would have been infinitely more embarrassing than being approached by a trusted relative; an unintrusive offer would have been preferable for me.
Posted by Anonymous123 on September 19, 2012 at 7:40 AM · Report this
53
I'm just over the whole "demeaning to women" defense of not liking certain sex acts- yeah, they are "demeaning" in that they play with the power dynamic in your relationship. And that's why guys get off on them and if your relationship is otherwise equal and healthy, your sex is going to get STALE as fuck if you can't play with those dynamics a little bit. That shit is engrained in our DNA as animals- most creatures are either submission or dominance seeking when it comes to sex. And doggy style IS animalistic and that's why it's hot, she needs to take the stick out of her ass and stop buying this bullshit that there is something demeaning int he bedroom has anything to do with being demeaned in real life (it can, of course, be related if your fucking a terrible person who doesn't care about you in or out of bed.)
Posted by ladida on September 19, 2012 at 7:48 AM · Report this
54
for me, both taking come in my mouth and doggystyle are not degrading but I do see how it can feel that way for others.
I dislike the taste of male come (it was too salty for me in all the different cases I tried - since I eat almost saltless in normal life, too salty is a problem)and since the tastebuds are in my mouth, I rarely let my partner come into my mouth.
The other thing is with blowjobs and doggystyle I experienced having less control since my partner can't see my face to read expression or see my nonverbal hints and I'm really bad in saying stop during sex (I gag easily and doggystyle is sometimes painful to me for some reason and I have some issues with control so I usually "turn off" my brain which leaves me unable to formulate appropriate words in English). I still do - and like doing - both sex acts from time to time but it took me more than 3 months to do that and it took a partner who didn't expect me to do it and who didn't bug me about it. So if LW1 can't be patient or can't stand the idea of not getting those things often he should just dump her to give both of them the chance of finding someone compatible.
Posted by GermanGirl on September 19, 2012 at 8:01 AM · Report this
55
If RANDY wants to demonstrate to his gf that doggy-style is not degrading or objectifying to women, all he has to do is show her some vids from seancody.com!
Posted by wayne on September 19, 2012 at 8:10 AM · Report this
56
It could be that having sex with him-from-behind is painful for her & she's saying demeaning because that's how she's processing it. As a woman I only use that position with someone I trust because if he thrusts deep too early on it feels like he's punching my cervix (& not in a good way). If I trust a guy to be gentle and to wait for me to push back, then I'm game & like it a lot! If I don't trust him (like, say, if a guy is constantly nagging me for it & seems a little obsessed), then I avoid it altogether.
Posted by gowestyoungman on September 19, 2012 at 8:14 AM · Report this
57
1) I have no problems with "doggy style" sex. Although I wonder at LW1's having it as his top preference for positions.

As some other commenters have said, his letter makes him sound like a whiny jerk. Why does he prefer that position to ones where he can see his partner's face?

People ascribing issues to her may want to rethink why he prefers that position to all others.

Personally, I never could get off from vaginal sex (especially from the rear) and my husband refused to take directions on how to pleasure me orally, but he was good at hand jobs so it worked out.

2) You've only been together for 3 fricking months, give her a chance to maybe develop a "taste" for you, LW1.

As to LW1's girlfriend not wanting come in her mouth at all, and definitely not swallowing - I am with her all the way!

As others have written, I am very food texture sensitive. Mucous-y, nasty tasting stuff would make me throw up. Thank goodness my husband did not need me to swallow for him to enjoy oral stimulation.

Label me "sex negative" if you want, but adults have free choice about substances accept into mouth and stomach.

How about flavored condoms so the new girlfriend can give head without the nasty stuff expelling into her mouth?
Posted by Xweatie on September 19, 2012 at 8:16 AM · Report this
58
In defense of the chick who won't do doggie and/or swallow cum (my two favorite things, ironically)...when I met my now fiance, I was pretty vanilla in the bedroom and wasn't comfortable doing certain things he requested and loved (he was a LOT more experienced than me). It took me about a year to get into it, and I'll do just about anything now. GETTING COMFORTABLE is a legit excuse! Having a patient partner who works slowly with you and understands and appreciates the sex you DO give is invaluable.
Posted by SomerSet Darling on September 19, 2012 at 8:18 AM · Report this
59
In defense of the girl who won't swallow cum/do doggie (two of my favorite things, ironically): when I first met my now fiance, I was pretty inexperienced and vanilla in the bedroom. I was pretty obstinate against a lot of things he requested (he was a LOT more experienced than me). It took me a year to really come out of my shell, and I'll do just about anything now. GETTING COMFORTABLE is a legit excuse. Having a loving partner who understands, is willing to take things slow, is patient, and appreciates the sex you DO have is invaluable...and well worth the wait!
Posted by SomerSet Darling on September 19, 2012 at 8:24 AM · Report this
60
People still call it doggy style? What is this high school? Should I go back to calling foreplay "fingerblasting"? Every time I'm with a girl and want to switch to "doggy style" I just say I want to take her from behind. Maybe the boyfriend using the term "doggy" style is off putting in bed. Nobody wants a mental image of a red rocket in their head when they are trying to get off (except the bestiality creepos)
Posted by AbeFroman on September 19, 2012 at 9:12 AM · Report this
nocutename 61
Ok, where to start with the first letter?

1) He's nagging her and pressuring her. Neither nagging nor pressuring are sexy behaviors. I don't know what RANDY means by saying that when he brings up the issues of the two things he likes most and isn't getting "it turns into a touchy discussion." How so? Does the girlfriend just cry or bring up her past boyfriend? Does RANDY get all accusatory? It's difficult to know.

2) I truly don't get this "doggie style is demeaning" thing. I don't watch porn--is that where it comes from? I also don't use the phrase "doggy style," as I don't like it (I just say, "from behind"). Maybe that's what she finds demeaning: the suggestion that they are having sex like animals, with no human emotion (I rather like to feel like an animal, but I understand other people's dislike of it). I wonder if it would feel demeaning to her if he talked to her through out, and said affectionate, humanizing things. Maybe he can't do this in the moment, but he could beforehand and afterward.

Maybe RANDY could explain to her what it is he likes so much about that position. Is it access to her clit for either him or herself? Is it the angle of penetration? Is it the view? If she is assured that his preference isn't because he finds the thought or sight of the position demeaning, she might feel better.

3) A blowjob to completion should end in the blower's mouth. The blower can decide to spit out the semen, but I've known several men whose orgasms often can last longer than ejaculation, and if I continue to suck softly (with much less intense suction/pressure), I can prolong the orgasm for the recipient. Sometimes I like to redirect the orgasm, so it ends in a facial or in his coming on my breasts, but that's because one of us wants that to happen, not because I DON'T want him to come in my mouth. If RANDY's gf doesn't like him to come in her mouth, and he doesn't like to come on his own chest or into the air, they need to be able to talk about this. Does she get freaked out at the loss of control he has right beforehand? Many guys start thrusting harder and more deeply and it can be scary if you don't want that kind of experience. Their loss of control results in a loss of control for the person giving the blowjob, too, a loss of control of the pacing, depth, intensity, etc. That can be frightening.

This isn't a spit-or-swallow issue. I agree that if someone doesn't like the taste or consistency of semen s/he shouldn't be expected to swallow, but holding semen in your mouth for a moment isn't the same thing (have a glass of something close at hand to remove the taste if that helps).

3) The phrase "Take one for the Team" just really bothers me when it comes to sex. I understand the GGG aspects of it, but I don't want a partner doing something I sense he really doesn't want to do for its own sake--because he likes it or wants it. It's not sexy to me to have someone project the attitude of "This disgusts me/turns me off/leaves me cold, but I'll make the sacrifice for you because I love you/want to be a good lover/want to use it as a bargaining chip towards getting something I want that I don't think you want to do later."
I once asked a friend what his reason was for going down on a woman. He answered "to make her feel good," and I said that for me, that wasn't the right answer. I want a guy to eat my pussy because at that very moment, that's the thing he wants most in the world to do FOR HIM. That is what makes it hot for me.

If I feel like he's checking in thinking or saying, "how's this? Is this right? Is this good? Is this what you want?", I'm going to feel pressured to hurry up and come, especially as that attitude often seems to be coupled with a feeling of "I need to get your orgasm out of the way so I can get to what really matters to me."

So I'd rather not have anyone do me any favors; I'd prefer no one 'take one for the team.' Do things because YOU are driven by desire.
More...
Posted by nocutename on September 19, 2012 at 9:21 AM · Report this
62
For centuries, men have been demanding their husbandly "dues" from their wives, and doing it missionary-style, because other positions were too savage or sexual or whatever. It seems like if any position's "degrading," it's good old missionary.

GF is more than entitled to her comfort zone, but she should be open to the idea that at its core, it's really how your partner treats you that is degrading or loving, beyond any larger cultural context. I mean, does she not acknowledge that blowjobs can be seen as demeaning? Or that in some circles and cultures, it's demeaning for a man to go down on a woman?
Posted by Gloria on September 19, 2012 at 9:33 AM · Report this
nocutename 63
@62 (Gloria): YES!!
Posted by nocutename on September 19, 2012 at 9:41 AM · Report this
64
Maybe she can compromise by taking it in her mouth but not swallowing.

For me that's far worse. If I could manage to not gag I would rather swallow than spit, because that would mean less of the taste. Also, spitting triggers my "this is gross and gaggy" response even more, which seems humiliating to both parties. Very far from how I want to end a sex act.

Incidentally, I've never thought of doggy style as demeaning (except that damn name, which is stupid). But I find less I can do in that position, so I have to work a bit at staying involved. That's really more what I meant about intimacy, not being able to respond to your partner as easily because you're not holding and touching them. A lot of things that are very easy face-to-face just don't work. (GermanGirl is exactly right about even the nonverbal communication being less.) On the other hand, for the man there's a lot to like about the position right from the get-go, so he's not necessarily going to see why the woman might say it needs some adjustment before it's going to be much good for her.
Posted by Eirene on September 19, 2012 at 9:55 AM · Report this
65
grom@33: 1) Becoming "more comfortable" later on will not fix things. You're at the most passionate point in any relationship.

As someone who's been married 20 years now -- thank GOD you're wrong, about us anyway. Three months in we didn't know shit.
Posted by Eirene on September 19, 2012 at 10:01 AM · Report this
nocutename 66
It seems to me that there is no sex act--not a single one--that is *inherently* demeaning. And there is no sex act that can't be turned into a demeaning act. Everything is dependent on context.

So this is the real meaning of being sexually compatible: find someone who wants from sex what you want from it. Your desires, the way you frame each act, the meaning you attach to it, should mesh, should complement each other (or at least over 90% of the time).

Some people get off on being demeaned. They should be with people who like to demean their partners through sex; some people like to be worshiped, and some like to worship; some like completely equitable sex and should be with others who are like-minded.

This, this attitude or contextualization, far more than any one particular act, is what, for me, constitutes sexual compatibility.

Sometimes people who initially seem incompatible in regards to a particular act can figure out a way to align their contexts. This, of course, requires communication, which often seems to be the hardest thing for people.
Posted by nocutename on September 19, 2012 at 10:14 AM · Report this
67
I had an ex girlfriend who pulled the "feel more comfortable" bullshit whenI told her upfront I wanted an open relationship with a bisexual girl.

Took two years before she finally admitted that that wasn't what she wanted. By then I was emotionally invested and tried to make it work but it ultimately failed.

The kicker here? At one time she was the girlfriend of a prior girlfriend and I. Unfortunately, she wasn't honest from the very beginning and it caused a lot of heartache.

Bottom line: The cake and "feel more comfortable" are a lie.
Posted by Hybrid Vigor on September 19, 2012 at 10:33 AM · Report this
68
@41: It's pseudo-feminist bullshit to refuse to ever do it, ever, even with someone she likes and trusts, because it is deemed to be "objectifying to women."

If that's the criterion you use to run your life -- that you refuse to do a particular activity because there is some number of assholes out there in the world abusing that particular activity, and it doesn't matter that your partner isn't one of them -- you are going to find yourself awfully constrained in your choices. Pretty much anything you can think of doing, there is going to be someone out there abusing it, and sex positions are particularly bad in this respect. As someone mentioned up-thread, even missionary can be objectifying, and certainly blowjobs can be seen that way. Why does she play the "it's objectifying to women" card on doggy but not on BJ's?

Believe it or not, you and I are approximately in agreement. I base this on your statements,

"It's not the act, but the attitude that surrounds it."
and
"Then I tried it with someone who I liked, he liked me, and...it was fun :)"
Posted by avast2006 on September 19, 2012 at 10:45 AM · Report this
69
nocutename@66: Your desires, the way you frame each act, the meaning you attach to it, should mesh, should complement each other (or at least over 90% of the time).

Yikes. I agree with most of your comment, and I'm all for compatibility, but even the MEANING you attach to each act? Why isn't it enough if both of you LIKE it? Does it have to be for anything like the same reason?

Heck, there are probably things I like because of associations with a bad novel I don't remember that I read when I was ten. Who cares? What matters is I like it NOW.
Posted by Eirene on September 19, 2012 at 10:49 AM · Report this
70
Another thing to consider in the RANDY "she is not swallowing my come" situation: Is he a jerk? I mean, how is he approaching her? With some macho entitlement tone? How does he treat her outside of the bedroom? I don't know--there are many ways to read a tone-- but I was imagining a dick tone to his email, and in the name of pleasing and being GGG he might be guilt tripping her or kind of bullying someone who has real fears and misgivings. Maybe, anyway. It's not all about the act, but also about the power dynamic out of the bedroom. Could be, anyway.
As to swallowing. My boyfriend claims I give the best blowjobs he has ever had, but I can't take him coming in the mouth. It tastes awful and there is gagging. Yet he gets off splendidly and said he wouldn't trade my technique for that extra credit. And I'm not squeamish--I rim, and role play, I do all positions and I switch with him top and bottom. But that is just one thing I can't do. I'm a little amazed at some of the comments above--guys who don't feel it's satisfying to come in the air. I don't know--I picture some overly macho entitled proclamations. Talk about it a little differently and I might picture the situation a little differently.
Posted by canterbury on September 19, 2012 at 10:51 AM · Report this
71
nocute @61, I think there's a necessary balance regarding "Taking one for the team."

At any moment in sexual relations between two people, the particular activity is likely to be more sexually stimulating for one of them than for the other. Let's call the person for whom things are currently more stimulating the "focal point." I think in a satisfying relationship, each person has to be roughly as willing to be the focal point. Because people like giving sexual pleasure. People like NOT being the focal point. So they have to tolerate (!) being the focal point, in order to give their partner the joy of pleasing them.

When you say: "I'd rather not have anyone do me any favors," to me, that sounds selfish. In that perspective, by refusing to be the focal point, you would be refusing your partner the joy of pleasing you. It's like refusing gifts on your birthday.

Owning your own sexual desire is hot. Telling someone what you want right now, and then being willing to be the focal point as your partner gives you want you want -- that's hot.

Insisting that the other person only do what turns him on -- that seems limiting.

There's a certain amount of "fake it till you make it" which is helpful in this process. Maybe I'm a little weirded out by pegging my guy, but I enjoy pleasing him, and over time, as I develop my skills and figure out how to move my body during pegging for my own pleasure, the activity becomes something we both love. But it's fine to play-act a little more desire than one really feels, in the goal of making your partner the focal point. And vice-versa, of course.
Posted by EricaP on September 19, 2012 at 10:55 AM · Report this
72
(Nocute, please don't take 71 as criticism of your actual sexual choices. I was just interested in discussing the point you were making @61.)
Posted by EricaP on September 19, 2012 at 10:58 AM · Report this
73
When a guy goes down on a girl, he normally gets loads and loads of vaginal secretions in his mouth. A woman can tolerate a tablespoon of semen.
Posted by hailrobonia on September 19, 2012 at 11:03 AM · Report this
74
#16, There's a huge, grody difference between swallowing your own phlegm and swallowing someone else's, though.

#10, Interesting, because my husband loves blow jobs but has always pulled out when he's about to come. I remember reading that guys get off on watching themselves and that that's why porn always includes the "money shot."

I do think RANDY deserves some credit for not having the automatic knee-jerk reaction most assholes have to hearing something called "objectifying to women." Women are objectified to the extreme and many of us have feelings about it and problems dealing with it and figuring out what we are comfortable with and what is questionable. When guys have to deal with the amount of threatening, harrassing, objectifying crap women receive from guys on a regular basis, maybe they'll get it and have some fucking empathy, rather than simply writing us off as idiots for feeling conflicted about what consititutes degradation versus what is harmless fun.
Posted by Yum, sea water phlegm! on September 19, 2012 at 11:20 AM · Report this
75
#73, your girlfriend may have a yeast infection.
Posted by virginia mason on September 19, 2012 at 11:22 AM · Report this
nocutename 76
@71/72 (EricaP):
I see what you're saying and I agree with it. But when sex is accompanied by a sense of "I'm just doing this for you" I can't enjoy it. I need to feel as if my partner is enjoying whatever he's doing for his own sake, as well, to enjoy it myself. My feedback loop, or what I call the symbiotic sense of sex depends on knowing that whatever he's doing to or with my body is turning my partner on in a more than just wanting to be accommodating way.

I don't mean that we should never try things for the sake of our partner. Your pegging experience/example is an excellent argument for being sexually generous with those we love yielding high returns. I've added a lot of tricks to my sexual repertoire over the years, all instigated at the request or to accommodate the desires of someone I wanted to please, that are now part of what I like, part of my own package. But I don't want a long-suffering pussy-eating.
Posted by nocutename on September 19, 2012 at 11:25 AM · Report this
nocutename 77
@69 (Eirene): Of course sometimes (or all the time) we just enjoy the sensations of a particular act.

But I was talking about approaches to sex.
I get a lot more out of sex if my partner and I share a similar approach and attitude towards sex in general, in our roles relative to each other during sex, etc. That attitude spills over to everything, for me. I am perfectly capable of just enjoying a sensation. But *I* get more out of it if my brain is engaged.
Posted by nocutename on September 19, 2012 at 11:29 AM · Report this
78
It is almost comical how many people on this forum have decided to intellectualize how she *should feel* as opposed to accepting that she *does feel* that way and that if this guy isn't good with that he can shove off. She must simply not be as evolved or intelligent as the rest of you to be alright with what she feels with this particular individual. She's just not competent enough to make her own decisions. You all really must give yourselves a pat on the back because you are all so very, very advanced.
Posted by justrolloveranddeal on September 19, 2012 at 11:32 AM · Report this
79
@76 "I need to feel as if my partner is enjoying whatever he's doing for his own sake, as well, to enjoy it myself."

Sure, but I think that we owe it to our sex partners to not push too hard on the evidence that they're loving the act.

I love giving blow jobs. But sometimes I get tired before he's done. At that point, I don't say: "Hey, could you finish already, my neck is sore." But I'm glad he doesn't ask neurotically "Are you still enjoying this, honey?" He accepts my vocal enthusiasm at face value and doesn't give me the third degree. And when he goes down on me, I don't pester him to see if he's still erect the whole time. I do alternate a vibe with the pussy-eating, so I can come faster and worry less about his neck getting sore.
Posted by EricaP on September 19, 2012 at 11:43 AM · Report this
80
@78: I was going on "She says she wants to get more comfortable and try these things." If that's not true, well, fine, but she should SAY so (I said that, too).

Also, if she has made her decisions, there's really no advice to give, so all of our advice is geared toward the hypothetical girlfriend who HASN'T made any permanent decisions, instead of the one you're hypothesizing, who has (and for whom there is less textual evidence).

In any case, it's extremely common to have conflicting feelings about sexual acts, and generally good for a relationship, sexually and otherwise, to figure out exactly what it is that isn't working for you and whether it can be fixed within the relationship or not. That's kind of the whole point of Dan's column, no?
Posted by Eirene on September 19, 2012 at 11:47 AM · Report this
81
EricaP: I am perfectly capable of just enjoying a sensation. But *I* get more out of it if my brain is engaged.

Oh, sure, I get that. But whatever it is that engages my brain doesn't always have to be the same place my husband's mind is going, and vice versa. I can see how it might be fun if you happened to have the same associations with a particular act, but mostly that doesn't happen.
Posted by Eirene on September 19, 2012 at 12:00 PM · Report this
82
TO: Really Anxious Not Doing Yearnings,

Interesting, Smart, Attractive women without all that drama exist.

Posted by Kylere on September 19, 2012 at 12:25 PM · Report this
I Hate Screen Names 83
Quoth 70:
I'm a little amazed at some of the comments above--guys who don't feel it's satisfying to come in the air. I don't know--I picture some overly macho entitled proclamations. Talk about it a little differently and I might picture the situation a little differently.
Stopping the blowjob at that point also stops the stimulation to the head of the penis. At least for me, tongue or lips on the head at the end of a blowjob both deepen and prolong the orgasm. It's just not the same without it.

An analogy for gals might be clitoral stimulation. I think most women might feel put out if her lover stopped playing with her clit the moment she started to come. Yes, she'd probably still have an orgasm, but it wouldn't be as satisfying.
Posted by I Hate Screen Names on September 19, 2012 at 12:27 PM · Report this
84
@81 not me, that should be nocutename @77.
Posted by EricaP on September 19, 2012 at 12:28 PM · Report this
85
@84: sorry about that, EricaP and nocutename. I was going back and forth between a couple of comments I was thinking about, and then jumped the wrong way at the last moment.

@83: I think most women might feel put out if her lover stopped playing with her clit the moment she started to come.

Actually I'm almost the opposite -- once I'm coming, it's hold-still-fer-gawdsake-don't-fiddle-any-more. It's probably one of the reasons I don't do vibrators.
Posted by Eirene on September 19, 2012 at 12:59 PM · Report this
86
I also have to disagree with Dan. Another term for a blowjob that ends up in air is "disappointment" - it is not nearly as satisfying for the top. However, there are circumstances where it is understandable, such as where there is concern about STD transmission in a casual hookup.

Posted by cockyballsup on September 19, 2012 at 2:08 PM · Report this
87
I am of the camp to whom semen does indeed have a bleachy bouquet, although in my experience each guy's tastes different. But it is also an acquired taste, so maybe LW1's girlfriend will eventually come around. We cannot be so unforgiving as to expect every new partner's repertoire to be completely matured. People do learn to enjoy new things.

Although I love it now, to me it was a gradual evolution, and even now it is highly dependent on my own state of excitation. To me, the idea of swallowing come is like fairy gold - very exciting until I come myself, at which point it turns to coal. Maybe LW1 will have better luck if he can manage to synchronize his ejaculation with his girlfriend's being in a state of abject horniness and excitement, assuming that is possible.
Posted by cockyballsup on September 19, 2012 at 2:20 PM · Report this
88
@87:
I agree on the "bleachy bouquet".

You are probably right on her excitation:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ado…
Posted by migrationist on September 19, 2012 at 2:32 PM · Report this
89
@88 fascinating article - thanks for posting.
Posted by EricaP on September 19, 2012 at 2:46 PM · Report this
90
LW1 didn't really mention the past sexual experiences of his new girlfriend- I think it is quite possible that she is simply young and inexperienced. Some of the comments to the effect of "people never get more comfortable" are pretty bleak! Good thing that's not what happened to me!

When I met my husband, I was a virgin because I had very low self-esteem and had simply not had the opportunity to have sex. He made me feel good about myself, and for the first few months the sex we had was very vanilla (missionary and blowjobs)- I was irrationally afraid that I might taste bad so I didn't want him to go down on me (wasn't true!), I was scared to be on top, I was scared of doggy-style (LW1's gf saying it's degrading to women could be an excuse). He was very understanding and gentle and knew when to ask and when not to push me, etc. A couple months later we were having awesome sex in all sorts of positions and now, 4 years later, we still have all kinds of awesome sex and it turns out that I am actually the kinkier of the two of us. So I guess what I am saying is, I think LW1 is probably in the best position to evaluate where his gf's objections are coming from, and if they are coming from youth or inexperience, I say to give the girl a chance to get comfortable and build trust with him.

In regards to swallowing come- it doesn't taste great. To me it mostly tastes like salt with a hint of chlorinated pool water, and the warm temperature makes it somewhat gag-worthy if it stays in my mouth too long. So in order to make it more pleasant for myself I swallow ASAP. I can definitely see how some people could gag and find it really unpleasant, so I can't blame them for not wanting to swallow. The way I see it though, it's only in my mouth for a second or two and it's worth seeing my partner's orgasm through to the end in the most complete way possible.
More...
Posted by aisling on September 19, 2012 at 2:59 PM · Report this
91
@87 - Yes, bleachy bouquet is the perfect description. And good lord, no sushi for lunch on date night...

I'd also like to agree on "People do learn to enjoy new things". Of course, you have to have a bit of an open mind on that. I was never all that into oral because I never got anything out of it, and I'm a bit of a selfish lover that way. But with my current partner, within moments of burying his head between my legs he made me come so explosively that I'm eager to go down on him as well.

If RANDY proves to his partner that he wants to make her happy and satisfied, then maybe she'd be willing to try and make him happy as well. Instead, he's being pushy and she's pushing back. And for those claiming "pseudo-feminism", you can just shut the fuck up. If she doesn't want to do something, she doesn't have to do it. Period. Whether she's justifying her refusal as it being degrading or whether she just doesn't like it, it doesn't matter. Of course, if she does refuse, and it is a dealbreaker for him, then he's free to walk away. That's his decision to make.
Posted by sanguisuga on September 19, 2012 at 3:04 PM · Report this
92
RANDY-- To get your girlfriend comfortable with doggie style (assuming she wants to become comfortable with doggie style), don't just bring up the subject when she's not turned on and expect her to warm to the idea. If your girlfriend is anything like me, ALL sex is a little unappealing when I'm not turned on. Things change dramatically when I am.

Instead, enter her face to face. Pump for a moment or even longer. Then lift one of legs until it is quite bent, knee towards her face. Keep pumping. Then while she's still there facing you and into it, move that knee towards the other side. You're now behind her. That's an awkward move, and you might slide out, but re-enter her. She's now face down. Pump some more. Then carefully, lovingly, put an arm under her hips and lift them up until she's on her knees and doggie style.

Naturally, you don't force any of this. The idea is that she should like it. Be aware that she might not. I find the sensations of doggie style to be different from anything face to face. For one thing, his penis is rubbing against my urethra more directly. I'm more likely to get a urinary tract infection that way, more likely to be sore. All that has nothing to do with symbolism that I attach to sex. I don't find anything about sex to be inherently demeaning. (It can be demeaning depending on the guy and the circumstances, but that's another story.)

Also, a good way to help anyone get into anything that they hadn't previously liked is to stress how turned on you are. So if she objects while you're turning her over, naturally you should stop, but if she doesn't object, keep telling her verbally how much you love it, how much you love her, how great it is. Remember that she won't be able to see your face once you're behind her so you may need to be extra explicit.

(I don't like come in my mouth either, so I agree with Dan on that one.)
More...
Posted by Crinoline on September 19, 2012 at 3:20 PM · Report this
93
OK, someone else above said that marijuana doesn't affect the taste of semen. BUT, one morning, after my boyfriend had been out partying with friends and I had been home not partaking in anything, I gave him a blowjob. Hand to god, even his pre-come had such a strong taste of weed that I had a hard time not gagging a little bit.

Has anyone else experienced this? It was hilarious. Confirmation bias didn't play a part, because I didn't know he'd smoked the night before.
Posted by planned barrenhood on September 19, 2012 at 3:21 PM · Report this
mydriasis 94
@ cocky

Having a guy come on his tummy is not safe sex! I mentioned this earlier (as did another poster) but it bears repeating because a poor understanding of STI transmission hurts us all. -_-

she's blowing him without a condom (thus exposing herself to STIs). Pre-ejaculate carries syphilis, gonorrhea, and I'm pretty sure HIV as well. Also, the skin of the penis can transmit herpes and/or HPV.
Posted by mydriasis on September 19, 2012 at 3:22 PM · Report this
mydriasis 95
@93

Oh I didn't say it didn't affect the taste, I said it didn't make it taste bad. But I actually like the taste of marijuana (too bad the high is fucking terrible). I also can't say I've ever noticed a marijuana taste in semen either. Oh well.
Posted by mydriasis on September 19, 2012 at 3:26 PM · Report this
96
BLOW-- I answered earlier, but thought of a more succinct way to phrase it: If you want to give blowjobs, give blowjobs, but then don't complain that you're looking for a long term relationship. The men have no way of knowing that's what you want. If you want a long term relationship, then do what's necessary to move towards a long term relationship. That includes not giving blowjobs too soon. In that sense, your straight female friends are right, you should wait until you've found out more about the guy to make sure he's ltr material. I don't like their phrasing about making a guy earn blowjobs because that sounds like you've put prostitute into your job description, but they are right about putting any sort of sexual contact off until a bit later. Think of it as adding variety to your dating life. Variety #1 is dating with no sexual contact until you've gotten to each other well. Variety #2 is letting him take the lead by learning how to pleasure you. Only later do you get to variety #3 which is giving him the blowjob.
Posted by Crinoline on September 19, 2012 at 3:27 PM · Report this
97
As a woman who loves blow jobs and has also been with women, semen and vaginal secretions are not the same. I think most people comparing them don't have enough experience with both genders to actually make the comparison.

Apples and oranges are both fruit, yes, but the experience is totally different.

If you are making the comparison, please state clearly if you have more than passing experience with both genders. Only bisexuals with experience really know. Tasting your own come is not enough. Insufficient data.

I really wonder how many of the men who say taking semen even if you dislike it is "no big deal" have actually tasted semen. If it's no big deal, then you need to do it yourself. Let her snowball you.

If you say no to that, ask yourself why. Then maybe you'll understand where this woman is coming from.

I don't agree and I do swallow, but she's not crazy or anti sex for that.
Posted by ABW on September 19, 2012 at 3:37 PM · Report this
shurenka 98
I agree with 91.

No sex position is inherently objectifying, but if RANDY's girlfriend feels that way, guess what, no amount of logical explanations will change that. It's just a preference, a visceral reaction, more likely conditioned by porn than honest-to-goodness exposure of feminism (of the pseudo kind or not). The fact that she seems willing to experiment and overcome her dislike of it shows that in fact she is aware her hangup is irrational.

As for the blowjob thing, even as a woman I can understand it might seem a bit distasteful to not only refuse to let him come in her mouth and swallow, but to, um, point it back on his stomach. I'm too lazy to read if anyone else has mentioned this, but maybe they could try letting him come on her body (or face). Perhaps to her it might seem objectifying, but if that's an issue she's more willing to work through than her distaste of semen, it might be a good compromise if he finds that hot.
Posted by shurenka on September 19, 2012 at 3:38 PM · Report this
99
@mydriasis, you are right, but there are levels of risk and people have to decide what their personal tolerance is. It is completely unheard of to catch HIV orally from precum, whereas for oral exposure to ejaculate, it is not unheard of. (It is still very low; about one chance in 1,000 per encounter with an infected partner was one estimate I remember reading, but don't quote me on that.)
Posted by cockyballsup on September 19, 2012 at 3:39 PM · Report this
100
shurenka@88: I can understand it might seem a bit distasteful to not only refuse to let him come in her mouth and swallow, but to, um, point it back on his stomach.

Huh? I don't get what's odd about that. I was picturing him being in a position where if she takes her mouth away, that's just how it works, same as if he were masturbating at the same angle. What's distasteful about the specific on-his-stomach part?
Posted by Eirene on September 19, 2012 at 3:53 PM · Report this
101
I think when people say it's degrading to women they mean this because it reduces the position of the woman to nothing but a well positioned hole for him to enter, since often they aren't touching her in any way but that, maybe with hands on her ass, and he can't see her face or anything so she could be yk, anyone. I don't see it like that, but some women do I know.

As for taste... I've had a large sample from both genders... and pussy juice is in no way shape or form comparable to semen at all, tho both have their dinstinctness and slight unpleasantness. But I have to admit I have never, ever tasted sperm from even the most pure living vegan who never ate asparagus and gorged on pinapple that was anything better than gross at best. And it's not the psychological issue for me at all, it is all out the sea water and snot taste/texture combo, to varying degrees depending on the dude and his diet. It might taste like very weak/liquidy snot/seawater but in the end, that's what it tastes like to me.

I am luckily married to a man who has no issue about not coming in the mouth, nor does he consider it an inferior BJ. In fact he rather prefers extensive handjobs with massage oil. Let me add I'm extremely creative with the handjobs, it's more like an hour long massage, not just yk, jerking him off.

Posted by wendykh on September 19, 2012 at 3:53 PM · Report this
mydriasis 102
@ cocky

I guess, but the difference seems pretty trivial to me, and it seems like the whole "pulling out means STI transmission doesn't happen" misconception seems common.
Posted by mydriasis on September 19, 2012 at 4:09 PM · Report this
103
Crinoline@96: do what's necessary to move towards a long term relationship. That includes not giving blowjobs too soon.

Whyever not? After all, the LW wants someone who likes HER, the way she is -- not a guy who would be totally shocked that she's given X number of men a blowjob on the first date. And why is this even about blowjobs specifically, rather than sex in general? (that's more about how the LW framed the question, not your answer). I've heard of blowjobs being considered LESS serious than intercourse, but not more so -- at least not since they got to be a standard, er, menu item.
Posted by Eirene on September 19, 2012 at 4:11 PM · Report this
I Hate Screen Names 104
Quoth 97:
I really wonder how many of the men who say taking semen even if you dislike it is "no big deal" have actually tasted semen. If it's no big deal, then you need to do it yourself. Let her snowball you.
*Shrug* I've tasted my own come. It's not the yummiest thing in the world, but it's not like eating gravel or worms or something. I'd rate the flavor as roughly as awful as the protein powder I consumed back when I was lifting.

Look, I'm not saying that come tastes like rainbows and sunshine. I am saying that blowers should be willing to endure a few seconds of unpleasantness to deliver greatly increased satisfaction to their partners. If someone is not interested in being a little uncomfortable to pleasure their partner, then that person probably isn't interested in oral sex to begin with.
Posted by I Hate Screen Names on September 19, 2012 at 4:23 PM · Report this
mydriasis 105
@Crinoline

Holy crap.
I'm pretty disturbed by what you wrote. On a few levels...

I answered earlier, but thought of a more succinct way to phrase it: If you want to give blowjobs, give blowjobs, but then don't complain that you're looking for a long term relationship.

Blowjobs and long term relationships are not mutually exclusive. Beleive me.

The men have no way of knowing that's what you want.

I'm sorry, is holding out on sex some sort of secret code for "I want to grow old with you"? You know, here's a novel idea: people could discuss what they want istead of depriving themselves and others of sexual activity in order to communicate.

If you want a long term relationship, then do what's necessary to move towards a long term relationship. That includes not giving blowjobs too soon.

Um, no. That's absolute garbage.

In that sense, your straight female friends are right, you should wait until you've found out more about the guy to make sure he's ltr material.

Or alternatively, she should do what makes her happy and the reaction of the guys she's with will demonstrate whether or not he's ltr material. Any guy who becomes disinterested in a woman because she likes sex is not worth the time of a woman who likes sex. He can enjoy his future of bitching around the water cooler about how his wife hasn't touched him in months. And his wife can enjoy getting cheated on because of her husband's wicked madonna-whore complex.

I don't like their phrasing about making a guy earn blowjobs because that sounds like you've put prostitute into your job description, but they are right about putting any sort of sexual contact off until a bit later. Think of it as adding variety to your dating life.

Honestly. Crin. I like you, but this exactly the kind of slut shaming nonsense that teaches women that it's okay to settle for a man who judges her on her purity. I specifically would NEVER hold out while dating because

1. I like sex
2. Any guy who judges women for promiscuity would not like me and I certainly would not like him.

I remember being told this exact lie myself when I was a teenager. I consider myself blessed that I didn't believe it and went on to have sex with a guy at a party - which led to an LTR. Oh, and damn right I blew him.
More...
Posted by mydriasis on September 19, 2012 at 4:23 PM · Report this
106
@14 I will confirm from experience that the cum of men who have had vasectomies does taste noticeably milder. (:
Posted by Maryse42 on September 19, 2012 at 4:27 PM · Report this
mydriasis 107
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z83mDocLR…

Women who don't let you come in their mouth are group two.
Posted by mydriasis on September 19, 2012 at 4:28 PM · Report this
108
Jeez, you people are a tough crowd! When I was a kid, I had trouble with the idea of swallowing my own saliva. I got over it, but it's something I try real hard not to think about. Fortunately, when I'm turned on or into someone, I can get over the idea of getting their spit in my mouth while kissing. I love giving head, but the moment I taste something other than dick (like precome), I'm done. I've found that condoms work fine.

If I guy can't deal with my limits, then I certainly hope he'd dump me (assuming I haven't figured out that he intends to nag me and be disappointed in me for being who I am, and haven't dumped him first).

That said, three months is not a long time. If he's stuck on the idea that she needs to suck it up (literally) and take one for the team, engaging in sex acts that she's said are definitely off the table, then he needs to move the fuck on. She's not for him; he's not for her.
Posted by Gamebird on September 19, 2012 at 4:31 PM · Report this
109
BLOW, I think the issue with BJs on the first date is kind of like the issue with sex on the first date. If a guy or a girl wanted to have sex on, or immediately following the first date, my immediate reaction would be that their primary intrest in me was sex. On a fist date you've spent so little time with the guy/ gal that you have no idea of whether you like them as a person or not, so first date sex isn't "I really like you and want to get closer to you" sex, it's "I want to get off, and you're nearby and good looking" sex.

And on the topic of blowjobs, RANDY's girlfriend could, if she wanted to, try letting RANDY come in her mouth with a 'dom on, or on her face/ tits. Neither requires swallowing/ tasting cum, and may be more appealing to her boy.
Posted by Shakes2019 on September 19, 2012 at 4:54 PM · Report this
I Hate Screen Names 110
@105: Agree. Early sex and long term relationships are not remotely incompatible.

Prior to my wife, my longest-term relationship began with amazing drunken sex. Over a next few months, we continued having great sex while getting to know each other, and found out that we were actually compatible in lots of different ways. Eventually, we transitioned to a more "formal" boyfriend-girlfriend relationship, which lasted over three years. And no, the break-up had nothing to do with the fact that our relationship began with sex.

Look at it this way, Crinoline: finding a long term partner is fundamentally about finding someone you're compatible with. There are multiple axes of compatibility: intellectual, sexual, lifestyle, emotional, religion (or lack thereof), etc. There's no predetermined order by which you need to check those. For some people, figuring out whether the sex works first is more efficient... and more fun.
Posted by I Hate Screen Names on September 19, 2012 at 5:00 PM · Report this
111
Shakes2019: On a fist date you've spent so little time with the guy/ gal that you have no idea of whether you like them as a person or not

It did sound as though BLOW was having that kind of date, but it's worth remembering that there are a whole lot of people who basically have hardly ever had that kind of date at all. Most of the people in my social circles have tended not to ask each other out until they've known each other for months, if not years. It's not unheard of for them to have had sex BEFORE "dating" in any formal sense.

(By the way, I like the typo "fist date" -- not making fun of you, it's just amusing. I think definitely a little later in the relationship, dear.)
Posted by Eirene on September 19, 2012 at 5:10 PM · Report this
112
I swallowed exactly once. It stuck in my throat, coated the back of my tongue and made me gag. From then I let lovers come in my mouth, but I either let it run out like saliva, or spat surreptitiously; in dim lighting no one could tell I wasn't swallowing. They got what they wanted, I got what I wanted.
Posted by Rach on September 19, 2012 at 5:14 PM · Report this
113
@97 >> If it's no big deal, then you need to do it yourself. Let her snowball you.>>

Just wanted to say that I like swallowing, but snowballs are a whole 'nuther level of grossness. I've licked cum out of someone else's pussy, and let me just say, I would not want to do that again. Cum congeals quickly...

Posted by EricaP on September 19, 2012 at 5:22 PM · Report this
114
(@113, I mean, I've licked male cum out of someone else's pussy.)
Posted by EricaP on September 19, 2012 at 5:23 PM · Report this
115
Bleachy. Mine is.

Hence chlorine. Has no taste-- Young Scientist.
Posted by Hunter78 on September 19, 2012 at 5:31 PM · Report this
116
Dear Randy: You need a man. I am available. In the meantime, here's a link to the first man I deem the male equivalent of the voice of La Streisand (except myself, of course... in my dreams). https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl…
Posted by parisimo on September 19, 2012 at 5:36 PM · Report this
117
Randy's girlfriend sounds like an idiot. Doggy-style is objectifying women really? And Randy is not too intelligent sounding himself. I guess idiots are attracted to idiots.
Posted by borfnor on September 19, 2012 at 6:38 PM · Report this
118
What the fuck is up with people extrapolating from LW1 that his girlfriend's not into sex/men/whatever? Not every straight sex-positive woman has to like every possible hetero sex act. End of story.
Posted by aure on September 19, 2012 at 6:39 PM · Report this
119
I don't like the "doggy style" label either - doesn't get my inner Goddess off. But refer to it as "Stallion Style" and I'm rough & rarin' to go.

Sometimes the word matters.
Posted by The Name of the Rose on September 19, 2012 at 7:10 PM · Report this
120
I like doggies.
Posted by Hunter78 on September 19, 2012 at 7:20 PM · Report this
121
RE: Doggy Style. I am a male who never got into that position until quite recently. I have had some long-term difficulties with maintaining erection (now use V) and doggy was difficult for me to sustain. The last woman I dated far preferred doggy to other options, (she usually would use a vibrator on her clit while I fucked her). Over time, I grew to really love that position. The fact that I am not making eye contact or seeing the face of my lover seems to free my mind to imagine an archetype of Woman rather than (as intensely) the specific woman I am with. I like a plump female ass, I like watching the flesh ripple as my hips make contact with it, I like backs and napes of necks and...sex is an activity I would hate to imbue with real time politics. I like having a woman sit on my face as well; I don't interpret that as being demeaned by her in any way because I am beneath her. It feels like, the bjs too soon girl put it, pussy worship and at its best, quite arousing.

People seem to have their likes and dislikes, sex takes some communication and compromise at times. If after awhile your needs and her desires don't match up, and visa-verso,or if bodily positions have become the semiotics for gender or political statements, perhaps it's time to search out a new partner.
Posted by EastCoastDude on September 19, 2012 at 7:59 PM · Report this
122
@RANDY's girlfriend: try oral in the shower. The water and drain is right there, and you can literally spit and rinse without having to taste anything. As for doggy style, does she personally find it degrading, or has she been told it is degrading, so she's parroting that line? I'm of the philosophy of doing what feels good. If you don't think RANDY is degrading you while doing it, who cares what anyone else thinks?
Posted by Sariss on September 19, 2012 at 8:43 PM · Report this
123
@RANDY's girlfriend: try oral in the shower. The water and drain is right there, and you can literally spit and rinse without having to taste anything.

As for doggy style, does she personally find it degrading, or has she been told it is degrading, so she's parroting that line? I'm of the philosophy of doing what feels good. If you don't think RANDY is degrading you while doing it, who cares what anyone else thinks?
Posted by Sariss on September 19, 2012 at 8:45 PM · Report this
seandr 124
If your girlfriend doesn't let you come in her mouth, that's a tough break, but not entirely unreasonable or uncommon.

If she won't let you fuck her doggy because it's "objectifying to women", then you've got yourself a really shitty girlfriend with a disastrous hang up. Unless you are in the "beggars can't be choosers" category, go find yourself a woman who's happy to get on all fours, arch her back, and stick her nice round ass in the air for you so you can both enjoy a hot, objectifying fuck. Bonus points if she likes it when you slap her ass and/or pull her hair.
Posted by seandr on September 19, 2012 at 9:58 PM · Report this
125
I agree with everything said about blow jobs. I personally like the taste of semen, from certain people and from others it's not that great. Sometimes I want to swallow it, sometimes I don't.

As for doggie style, I think the objectifying thing is not really accurate, but there are other reasons not to like it that she may have. So it may be an excuse.

I like the idea of doggie style but I've an inverted uterus. 25% of women have it and it just means your uterus is curved toward your back rather than forward. It can have the effect of certain positions being uncomfortable because it feels like the penis is banging into your uterus. It kind of effectively makes your vagina shorter. Using pillows to prop up hips and such is an option, but it's just never an easy, problem free way for me to screw. And one in four women have their anatomy this way.
Posted by greenfuzz on September 19, 2012 at 10:11 PM · Report this
seandr 126
@61: "He's nagging her and pressuring her. Neither nagging nor pressuring are sexy behaviors."

RANDY - see how this works? You're not expressing your desires and asking for what you want, you are "nagging and pressuring her". And if she doesn't want to play ball, it's your fault. Maybe if you'd just stop wanting those things, or if you were a better man, she'd give them to you.

This is your future with this woman. Unless you enjoy going around and around that carousel from hell, run away! Find yourself a GGG woman who loves you and is emotionally intelligent and mature enough to accept your sexuality for what it is and work with you in cases where your interests diverge.
Posted by seandr on September 19, 2012 at 10:30 PM · Report this
127
I have never thought of doggy style as degrading. Ridiculous! It's perfect for nailing my G-spot, over and over. Some of the best orgasms in the world happen with doggy style. As for swallowing, yeah.. I always swallow. Always have. And the guys who weren't into it were very clearly on the slut-shaming side of things. If I wanted to swallow, then I must be a 'bad girl.' Puh-leeze.
Posted by Sarah in Olympia on September 19, 2012 at 11:05 PM · Report this
seandr 128
@125: A lot of women can't take the whole cock from behind. That's been my experience, and I see it in porn, too. That just means the guy has to limit penetration, and the woman needs to trust him enough to relax and enjoy it.
Posted by seandr on September 19, 2012 at 11:18 PM · Report this
129
My, Eirene, and IHSNames (103, 105, 110) I was a little disturbed by my comment too even as I wrote it, but I'm going to stand by it. I also think it's awful that a woman can't give all the blowjobs she wants because she enjoys it. I think it's horrible that guys who enjoy blowjobs don't stick around and want a long term relationship with her. I think it's terrific that long term relationships have resulted from early drunken sex for some of you. I'm not recommending refraining from blowjobs or early sex as some sort of new (old) world order.

It's just that the blowjobs have not been working for BLOW. She's in her mid-20s, and she's NEVER been in a long term relationship. (Except for one where the guy held out on letting her touch him.) Maybe it's never happened for her because she needs a new job, wears the wrong clothes, or talks too much about her cat. Maybe she should try moving to Schenectady, learning to make kreplach, or getting involved in her community theater. There could be all sorts of things that are turning men off so they don't want to date her long term. But judging from the letter she wrote, if I had to change one thing, it would be the blow jobs.

I didn't like the advice either when I got it from a therapist 25 years ago, and in my case, I wasn't even having sex with the guys all that early. I was just making it clear that I liked them, wanted to be friends, anything. My therapist gave me anti-feminist advice that rankles me to this day. It's so against everything I believe in. But here's the funny thing. I held back a little on the very next date I went on, and that's the guy I woke up with this morning. We've been together all this time, and I assure you I have not been holding out on sex, using sex as a leveraging tool, or pretending I don't like sex in all that time.

I'm so quick to tell Dan when he's got it wrong. This time he got it right. And besides, if BLOW tries waiting a bit before giving those blowjobs and it doesn't lead to the long term relationship that she wants, she can always go back to blowing away and try improving her tennis serve instead.
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Posted by Crinoline on September 20, 2012 at 5:13 AM · Report this
130
@Crinoline:
She's in her mid-20s and she has had one LTR. It depends how you define a LTR, but I think that's not too bad.

Of course, she isn't happy the way things are going at the moment, so she has to change something. But why is getting to know a person on a date mutually exclusive to sexual activity on the same date?

By the way: I found your advice to RANDY above rather disturbing. I was wondering why I felt so uncomfortable about it since the slow approach on changing position appeals to me on a certain level. But then I thought about how I would react to every new twist (if I had told my bf beforehand several times that I found sex from behind to be demeaning). I'd probably like the first change, like the 2nd one maybe a bit less but go with it since it was just turning him on so much, and like it less with every turn, but since we'd gotten that far, why not go with the flow?
In the end, I'd feel manipulated but chalk it up to a learning experience: that I need to learn to say no early on. But what if she feels manipulated but isn't able to just chalk it up to be another experience?
Posted by migrationist on September 20, 2012 at 6:01 AM · Report this
131
130 Migrationist-- It's not mutually exclusive. It just hasn't been working for her.

And I think you're right about RANDY. The slow approach always holds the risk of being manipulative, the risk that someone will do something when turned on that they wouldn't do when they thought about it. Perhaps better advice would be for RANDY to consider how much he values those 2 sex acts against how much he values this particular relationship. I'd tell him that if he likes her that much, he might as well give up on those 2 positions, but the decision is up to him.
Posted by Crinoline on September 20, 2012 at 7:14 AM · Report this
seandr 132
@Crinoline: I think your advice to BLOW is fine. Most of us like to think we have a partner who's value on the mate market is greater than or equal to ours. If a potential partner seems too into us early on (as a man might mistakenly infer by the fact that she blows him on the first date), we naturally wonder whether we're with someone who's market value is less than ours. This is not slut shaming, by the way - there are plenty of nonsexual ways a person can lower their perceived market value - e.g., by being shy and lacking confidence, being too nice or deferential, paying to much attention to someone, calling/texting too much, etc.

Ideally, people wouldn't have to play games with each other during courtship, and in some cases they don't. But the fact is, we are human beings, not some species dreamed up by humanist philosophers. We all care about the "value" of our mates, and by necessity we use imperfect heuristics to assess that value. BLOW should at least be aware of these aspects of human courtship so she can make an informed choice as to whether to ignore them.
Posted by seandr on September 20, 2012 at 8:22 AM · Report this
seandr 133
P.S. to BLOW - next time you go for the first-date blowjob, make it clear to your partner that you are doing it because you love sucking dick, not because you think he walks on water. That would make him more likely to conclude that he's lucky to be with you rather than the other way around.
Posted by seandr on September 20, 2012 at 8:25 AM · Report this
134
RANDY, there are so many things wrong with the tone of your letter that I don't know where to start. You are prioritizing particular actions in bed over the quality of your emotional relationship with your girlfriend. You are objectifying sex and somehow considering it of "less value" if it doesn't unfold exactly as you want. And you are pushing your girlfriend to do something she obviously doesn't want to do as if it's your right.

What you need is a hooker. Break up with your girlfriend, let her find a human to be in a relationship with and hire professionals whose job it is to do exactly what their customers want sexually. You are not your girlfriend's friend and she needs some help realizing that, so do the decent thing and do what she doesn't have the sense to do for her.
Posted by GG1000 on September 20, 2012 at 8:31 AM · Report this
135
Randy's girlfriend has every right not to like those things. And Randy has every right to say "well, screw this, then." Asking to be allowed to come in her mouth isn't a crazy request... if she doesn't want to grant it, she should probably be with someone who doesn't want it so badly. She's never going to LIKE doing it, even if she gives in, so frankly... irreconcilable differences :-P

And doggy style being sexist = puh-fuckin-leese.
Posted by Jang on September 20, 2012 at 8:38 AM · Report this
John Horstman 136
And sex ed fails the The Stranger commenters yet again. The quantity and viscosity of semen can vary widely between people and over time for one person, largely depending on how much fluid the prostate is pulling out of the bloodstream (hydration is one major factor that can impact this for a given person). Not all cum is created equal.

As for guys dumping a girl because she gives head 'too soon', Avast nailed it in comment #5; you're well-rid of the sexist-double-standard-perpetuating assholes, BLOW. I wouldn't change your behavior at all - it's serving you very well as an early warning system that protects against an entire class of jerks. Just keep dating until you find someone who you can round up to (and who can round you up to) a One. If EVERY guy you're dating is doing this, consider looking for guys in different places (Bars and dance clubs not working? Try online or book clubs.) or for different guys/using a different approach in the same places (Do you always wait for a guy to approach you? Try approaching guys first. Are you mainly dating geeks? Try bros.).

@129: Yep, that's how coercive social hierarchies (like the sexist double-standard around sexual activity) perpetuate themselves, by rewarding those who conform to them. It's your call how you behave, of course (and given how punishing normative systems can be to those who violate them, I certainly can't blame anyone for not wanting to take the risk or accept the consequences of pushing back against social norms), but all you're really pointing out is why it's far easier to capitulate to normative social systems than to resist them, assuming, of course, that holding off on sex had anything to do with your long-term partner sticking around (as opposed to finally meeting someone with whom you shared sufficient mutual affection/compatibility/etc.). Yup, that's how they work. Women-as-gatekeepers-of-sex is still fucking sexist, and buying-in still perpetuates the norm.
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Posted by John Horstman on September 20, 2012 at 8:46 AM · Report this
137
seandr@132: Most of us like to think we have a partner who's value on the mate market is greater than or equal to ours.

Say what? I don't think such a thing has ever occurred to me. But then I don't believe people have any fixed value on the "mate market" -- it's all in how compatible you are with the other person.
Posted by Eirene on September 20, 2012 at 8:58 AM · Report this
seandr 138
@137: It's actually been scientifically demonstrated (repeatedly) that people tend to partner up with others who are rated equally attractive, desirable, etc.

And the processes by which we assess a partner's market value aren't necessarily conscious and deliberate. If, for example, a potential mate comes off as a little too eager to be with you, most of us would consciously experience that as bad chemistry or compatibility rather than think "I could do better than him/her."
Posted by seandr on September 20, 2012 at 9:07 AM · Report this
muzyqman 139
I have been told that there are a number of food items, like parsley, that can change and improve the taste of a man's cum. Perhaps Randy's cum just doesn't taste good to his girlfriend. The easiest fix for that is to start consuming foods that make his cum taste better. If that doesn't work, he can always move on to more complicated solutions, but this one involves no more than a trip to the grocery store!
Posted by muzyqman on September 20, 2012 at 9:17 AM · Report this
140
@130/131, I think there are options besides manipulating her into position and giving up on doggie-style. I laid some of them out @25. RANDY's girlfriend "says she wants to get more comfortable and try these things," so he should take her at her word and brainstorm how to get there by baby-steps. Baby-steps aren't manipulative, because she has agreed to them beforehand.
Posted by EricaP on September 20, 2012 at 9:29 AM · Report this
Helenka (also a Canuck) 141
My words of advice to RANDY:

How many different PIV positions have you tried? Have you only done a few, so that your focus and desire (and, yeah, probably nagging) for doggy is really dominant? I always like to recommend http://www.sexinfo101.com for more positions than anyone could think of. What about going through the animated pictures together with your gf, reading the descriptions as well as reader reviews, and trying a few. Just please don't start off with the rear entry ones.

Sex should be fun for both parties. And it's never too late to learn new stuff about sex. As for the incomplete bjs, someone above suggested that you wear a condom. It may not be perfect for you to come in her mouth with one on, but it's sure a lot better than having to vacate a tight warm place just as you're about to come. [I don't know if I'm the only woman in existence who feels sorry for guys in porn having to pull out to display money shots.]

Can the two of you compromise on this. Offer the suggestion to her and ask her what flavours she'd like the most. Mmmm. Chocolate. [Sorry, got distracted there.] The other fun aspect is that the condoms come in a variety of colours. So, that's the compromise for her, that she will continue through to the end of your orgasm and aftershocks without having to deal with the taste or swallowing. Your compromise will be that you start off without a condom, but will roll one on as you're getting close so that the experience continues to be pleasant for her. Just remember to open the packet and let the condom come to room temperature first.

IMO, I believe it's a lot better to approach the situation from another angle rather than to hope that some day she'll no longer see these two particular sex acts as degrading. She may or may not. But, this way, you'll be able to have more sex that is closer to your ideal without making it a confrontational situation.
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Posted by Helenka (also a Canuck) on September 20, 2012 at 9:31 AM · Report this
142
Dear Blow,
Make them wait and make yourself wait. Women wait not for puritanical reasons, its for emotional reasons. What at least a couple of dates and find out if you want the guy to stick around. Don't mention anything about loving BJ's. Most men are looking for the easiest BJ they can find and why should they stick around if you're going to do it on the first date? Make him wait and like you for other reasons too. Otherwise you're just going to end up feeling like crap. Been there done that, and now happily married for 12 years.
Posted by happilymarried77 on September 20, 2012 at 9:32 AM · Report this
143
It's actually been scientifically demonstrated (repeatedly) that people tend to partner up with others who are rated equally attractive, desirable, etc.

Sure, if you beg the question by assuming from the start that there even is such a thing as "equally attractive." Add in the fact that the vast majority of us come out "average" on most rating systems, and, well, naturally so-called average people end up with so-called average people a whole lot. I don't think that proves anything.
Posted by Eirene on September 20, 2012 at 9:34 AM · Report this
144
@126 - There's a difference between "I love being behind a woman and seeing the curve of her back and feeling her ass against me and then when she throws a glance over her shoulder at me, man, that's so fucking HOT" and "Well, my last girlfriend would just drop on her knees anytime I wanted her to, why can't you be more like that?"

There is discussing the things you love to do in bed, and then there is demanding and whiny pressuring. And RANDY sounds like he's the latter. They've only been together for three months - give her time, fer hell's sake. She does sound like she might be young and perhaps a bit inexperienced. But if he left it up to her, without reminding her every three days how much he misses his "doggy-style", then perhaps she'll come around. And if he isn't willing to give her the time to get comfortable, then she doesn't mean as much to him as he thinks.
Posted by sanguisuga on September 20, 2012 at 9:49 AM · Report this
145
I've known several people in BLOW's position, and for them it wasn't so much that the early bj/sex was a turn off to guys, it was that they failed to develop chemistry with the partner. Ultimately, they hadn't developed the social skills to build the chemistry necessary for a LTR, and were compensating with sex. They filled lulls in conversation and inability to find mutual interests with sex, which can be fun for awhile, but can make a relationship boring over time. For these people, it was necessary for them to slow down the sex, etc. so they could focus on the developing the necessary chemistry with the partner

I've also known many people that have sex early on, and have no problem with finding long term partners. So BLOW's problem likely has nothing to do with her bj eagerness, but slowing down the bj's may allow her to develop other fundamental relationship skills
Posted by pb1230 on September 20, 2012 at 10:07 AM · Report this
146

BLOW -

Don't try to be a "Rules" girl.
That's phony and dishonest.

You're doing great.
Just keep doing what you're doing.

Sooner or later you'll find your Kenny:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/22…
Posted by Robby on September 20, 2012 at 10:14 AM · Report this
147
@ #41 "It's not the act, but the attitude that surrounds it."
EXACTLY!

@#56 "As a woman I only use that position with someone I trust because if he thrusts deep too early on it feels like he's punching my cervix......If I trust a guy to be gentle and to wait for me to push back, then I'm game & like it a lot"

As someone who doesn't enjoy actual physical agony with my sex, I wholeheartedly agree. If you're doing something that literally makes my eyes cross in pain I'm not going to be inclined to want to do that. Give my poor cervix a couple of seconds to get out of your way or warm up at least!

@#61 Couldn't have said this better myself
"1) He's nagging her and pressuring her. Neither nagging nor pressuring are sexy behaviors. ...it turns into a touchy discussion." How so? Does the girlfriend just cry or bring up her past boyfriend? Does RANDY get all accusatory? It's difficult to know."
If he's also making her feel bad about her preferences, that's not exactly condusive to him getting what he wants.

"2) I truly don't get this "doggie style is demeaning" thing. I don't watch porn--is that where it comes from? I also don't use the phrase "doggy style," as I don't like it (I just say, "from behind"). Maybe that's what she finds demeaning: the suggestion that they are having sex like animals, with no human emotion (I rather like to feel like an animal, but I understand other people's dislike of it). I wonder if it would feel demeaning to her if he talked to her through out, and said affectionate, humanizing things. Maybe he can't do this in the moment, but he could beforehand and afterward."

The "having sex like animals, with no human emotion " can possibly be it for her. This spoken from someone who loves a "I just gotta fuck your brains out, right here right now" on occasion...but I don't want it to ALWAYS be like that, and even when it is, I still like to know that the other person hasn't so totally lost their mind as to not know there's another human being there with them.

Maybe she's been with someone in the past who's made no other body, or verbal, contact in this position (like it was mentioned before, eye contact in this position is rough) , so that it feels "humanly disconnected". See my comment above about at least acknowleging another person is there.

"Maybe RANDY could explain to her what it is he likes so much about that position. Is it access to her clit for either him or herself? Is it the angle of penetration? Is it the view? If she is assured that his preference isn't because he finds the thought or sight of the position demeaning, she might feel better."

It could be as simple as the fact that she doesn't like her asshole being stared at, or she's not into anal in any form and is afraid he'll be too tempted to resist in this position? I've got to wonder if she's comfortable with 69 with her on top , or reverse cowgirl bent over toward feet (roughly the same "view")?
Like you said, perhaps if he "gently" explained to her what the attraction is, it might help.

@ #121 "The fact that I am not making eye contact or seeing the face of my lover seems to free my mind to imagine an archetype of Woman rather than (as intensely) the specific woman I am with"

That also may possibly be one thing she dislikes about it. While we all know that others fantasize at times, no one wants someone who does that ALL of the time. That can be an awful feeling for the woman on the receiving end, that she is just a current convenient hole for you to stick your dick in while you imagine she's someone else. For me, if it's a case that you have to pretend I'm someone else to get off, that IS degrading. Why would I even want to be there?
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Posted by Pinky1352 on September 20, 2012 at 10:16 AM · Report this
148
Erica,

I don't disagree with you wrt to the viscosity of semen and congealing. The congealing is why I swallow, but don't "play" with a man's semen after it's out.

I have personally found that women's juices don't change as much as men's do. I've also found that women I'm attracted too tend to always taste o.k., but sometimes men's semen can be gross, even though I like the man and his smell. (With women the only real issue sometimes is smell...)

The point was only that for anything you ask a partner to do for you under the rubrik of "it's no big deal, so you should do it for my pleasure", you should be willing to try it first. A lot of times, insecure or selfish partners can say "it's no big deal" until you ask them to do it (or the equivalent) for you...then it's clear it is a big deal! There are also some puritan, gender roles, or power issues in their heads. (Not saying it isn't ok to play the traditional roles and play around with power, only that you need to acknowledge the motivation).

I also think this guy should basically take the approach of saying that he won't pressure her, but he wants to understand because he values their relationship so much and thinks it can have a future. He also needs to say he "just can't see himself in a LTR with someone with whom he can't frankly discuss and explore sex".

If she says she doesn't like the taste of him or swallowing any semen, he needs to let it go. You can't change that. I would "concede" that in order to get her to try more sexual positions for fucking...

He should also show her he's willing to get out of his comfort zone as well. If she does have some fears he's either sexist or selfish and she's not being 100% irrational, framing it as "let's both explore" in this safe space, is the best way to go.

If he doesn't want to do this "work", he should bug out now. She's not the right woman for him. He really needs to ask himself:

(1) Do I want to do the work to improve the relationship? If so, why? Is it about her or about me?
(2) If I am not willing, is it because of her, or because I expect her to cater to my needs?
(3) What has he done sexually for her that was outside of his comfort zone or new to him?
(4) When they have sex, how many times does she blow him with no reciprocation vs. they both get off? How often does he "go the extra mile" for her pleasure?

If the pleasure and GGG aspects of their relationship are really inequitable and she's pleasuring him a lot, the situation may be feeding her fears of him being sexist, not just the act/acts being sexist in the abstract. I'm not saying that it is, only that we can't know based on what he says and he needs to ask himself these questions.

As some posters have addressed before, if he can get her past the domination issues there are other things that may be at play. He needs to remember that he can't just "let go" and lose himself in the fucking doggie style. At least in the beginning, he has to keep the intimacy going in that position and make sure he's not jackhammering her. If he's on the larger side, he needs to be very, very careful.

Doggie is my favorite position, but I had some men in the past whom I said no way to because of their size or because the didn't know how to start slow and build me up. (Hint: her having an orgasm first will help, then you start slow and build up. Keeping her clit stimulated helps with this).

More...
Posted by ABW on September 20, 2012 at 10:21 AM · Report this
149
Pinky, etc.

What's hard to tell from his narrative, is if she feels these acts are demeaning in general to all women always, if she feels they are usually demeaning, or if she feels they are mostly demeaning but can be ok? We also don't know how much of this is driven by her abstract world view, her past experiences with men, or they dynamics of their specific relationship.

He needs to take a good, hard look at this. IF he is doing some sexist, selfish b.s., he can stop and see how she responds. If it's her past experiences, then he may be able to overcome it with work. If it's just her world view, then he needs to evaluate whether he agrees and thinks they can come to a world view as a couple that they both like.

It may just be their POVs on the world and relationships are not in sync.
Posted by ABW on September 20, 2012 at 10:26 AM · Report this
150
Also, conveying the message of "I want a LTR, but I'd be up for a casual hookup in the meantime" is easier said than done. There is nothing wrong with that mindset and message, but it takes some skill to make that clear.
Posted by pb1230 on September 20, 2012 at 10:27 AM · Report this
151
WRT to the "early BJ giver", she needs to ask herself if there's some other reason guys may not click with her. Is it her appearance? Personality? Job prospects? Could be something unrelated?

It could also be not the fact she gives BJs, but how she's approaching the whole experience. If it's clear to the men that she only cares about giving them pleasure and she's not getting anything of direct pleasure or intimacy back in any way, she's possibly sending the message that she WANTS to be used for short-term pleasure only. If that's the case, she shouldn't be surprised when they act accordingly.
Posted by ABW on September 20, 2012 at 10:29 AM · Report this
Helenka (also a Canuck) 152
pb1230 (@145)

I like your interpretation of BLOW and her eagerness to get to the bj part ... like all the time. She herself has stated she's so horny, she can't help but want (or it sounds more like *need*) to give a guy - any guy - a bj. So she could well be wanting to get to the bj at socially awkward times.

And perhaps some guys actually find it uncomfortable to be reduced to nothing but their dicks. If BLOW is so constantly horny, then she might want to go home and rub a few out on her own until she can look at a guy and not see him and his dick as an appetizer course that she is owed.
Posted by Helenka (also a Canuck) on September 20, 2012 at 10:31 AM · Report this
seandr 153
@143: assuming from the start that there even is such a thing as "equally attractive."

The studies I'm referencing do not assume there's such a thing as "equally attractive". I, for one, don't believe there is simply because different people are attracted to different traits.

These studies define desirability (not just physical) or market value simply as the percentage of people who consider you to be partner material. Like it or not, we all have a market value thus defined - you can't escape having one any more than you can escape having a height.

Not surprisingly, people tend to end up with partners who have similar market value, as defined above. You find this controversial? Objectionable?
Posted by seandr on September 20, 2012 at 10:52 AM · Report this
154
I HATE HATE HATE having cum in my mouth, it makes me gag and choke, which, as far as I'm concerned, is not sexy. I wish that wasn't the case; I love giving head, and my husband loves it on the rare occasions I let him cum in my mouth. I don't think it's degrading, I just physically can't deal with it. The same might be true for RANDY's lady, and if it's not, he should respect her limits. His girlfriend is giving him head until he cums, so what's the problem here?

As far as the doggy style, she should at least give it a shot. Maybe she will decide she likes it, and being GGG is part of every relationship. Sometimes we do things that we don't particularly like because it makes our partner happy. She needs to lighten up a little if pleasing RANDY is important to her.
Posted by missfancypants on September 20, 2012 at 10:55 AM · Report this
155
Unfortunately, many sex acts are acquired tastes. It took my wife 5 years to start liking doggy (she didn't think it was degrading, it just didn't feel enjoyable to her). You ultimately have to commit to trying to like certain things and keep trying at least periodically.

I think a good way to start at least tolerating swallowing is to allow the guy cum where ever, then return to sucking when there's still some residual cum left on the dick. With the small amount, the taste will be diluted and there likely won't be a textural issue.
Posted by pb1230 on September 20, 2012 at 11:10 AM · Report this
156
These studies define desirability (not just physical) or market value simply as the percentage of people who consider you to be partner material. Like it or not, we all have a market value thus defined - you can't escape having one any more than you can escape having a height.

But my height is a replicable measurement, and I don't see any reason to suppose that the averaging of a bunch of snap judgments made on completely different metrics would be replicable at all -- except in the sense that any time you average a whole lot of anything you're likely to get an answer somewhere in the middle range. Nor do I see a reason to suppose that such an average would have any actual meaning.
Posted by Eirene on September 20, 2012 at 12:07 PM · Report this
GQbd 157
RANDY: I haven't read all of the comments yet so excuse me if this is redundant, but you might try offering to take a snowball once you come in her mouth. It does bespeak of commonality and all and might be seen as the kind of gesture that'll win you points. Then again, if the taste rather than thought of cum in her mouth that is the impediment, you might be SOL.

As for doggy style, you might try a position that gives her more clitoral stimulation, such as her straddling the corner of the mattress with a pillow between her legs. When it works it's been known to be quite popular.

And one last suggestion: try going down on your girl while she's buns up kneeling. Being done from that angle may open up a new world of possibilities in her mind. Throw in a little rimming and she may be game for anything you want. It may become her new favorite position
Posted by GQbd on September 20, 2012 at 12:13 PM · Report this
158
Regarding BLOW's letter: I don't understand straight guys. I just don't. Do they enjoy wasting three or more weeks dating each new girl before finding out that there is no sexual chemistry? Whatever may be wrong with dating behaviors in the gay world (and there is a lot), at least we get one thing right, namely we tend to get an answer to the crucial question of whether there is chemistry in the bedroom before investing too much time, money, and energy in a relationship.
Posted by cockyballsup on September 20, 2012 at 12:25 PM · Report this
159
@seandr: "Not surprisingly, people tend to end up with partners who have similar market value, as defined above. You find this controversial? Objectionable?"

I do have an objection to your use of the study results. They are based on averages of scatter plots, meaning that while something like that may be true when you average 1,000 data points, it is far from true for the majority of individual data points in the plot, almost none of which will lie on the averaged graph. In other words, the opposite of your quote is true - most people in the scatter plot end up with partners outside their own market value.
Posted by cockyballsup on September 20, 2012 at 12:36 PM · Report this
GQbd 160
Hear. Hear. Some guys can get wierd over getting what they tell their buddies they really want. My favorite relationships have almost always been with women who either did me or let me do them on the first date.
Posted by GQbd on September 20, 2012 at 12:45 PM · Report this
seandr 161
@156: the averaging of a bunch of snap judgments

That might be a fair criticism of the some of the less rigorous lab studies on this subject, but data from dating sites corroborate these findings, and those data are based on actual (as opposed to simulated) courtship behavior.

@159: They are based on averages of scatter plots

I believe your point depends on the size of the correlations.
Posted by seandr on September 20, 2012 at 1:40 PM · Report this
ALWAYS Clear Your Cache!!! 162
97 hit it on the fucking head:

"I really wonder how many of the men who say taking semen even if you dislike it is "no big deal" have actually tasted semen. If it's no big deal, then you need to do it yourself. Let her snowball you."

Litmus test, indeed.
Posted by ALWAYS Clear Your Cache!!! on September 20, 2012 at 1:41 PM · Report this
163
Am I a horrible blow-job giver because I can't swallow?

Seriously. The smell and taste of semen makes me vomit. I'll swallow, and then 15 seconds later, I'll run to the bathroom and puke.

My husband says he doesn't mind, and that really he'd rather not have me puking. I enjoy giving head. I even like pre-cum, but something about the smell and taste of actual ejaculate makes my gorge rise. And no, it does not matter what he's been eating.

After over a decade, the most I can do is take it in the front of my mouth and spit. And even then, that makes me puke sometimes.

Just FWI, I don't plan on changing my behavior. I'm just curious about what others think.
Posted by DianeLGD on September 20, 2012 at 1:58 PM · Report this
164
Cocky,

The difference in that regard is not so great between gay and straight guys, the difference is who they date. Screwing is personal capital for women, so the smart ones spend it cautiously. Guys just wanna fuck.
Posted by Hunter78 on September 20, 2012 at 2:38 PM · Report this
165
Why is dating someone for three weeks any more of a waste of time, money, or energy than spending time with any other friend? Why wouldn't it give you plenty of clues along the way about chemistry? Anyway, many people who have no moral objection to casual sex simply find it doesn't work for them at all -- particularly, though not exclusively, women. If you flat out can't relax around a partner you don't know very well, the sex is gonna stink. Not everyone is a zero-to-sixty kind of person, even in plain old friendships. That's also part of chemistry.

Also, women are much less likely to even orgasm with a new partner. If it doesn't really get good until the third or fourth time with a guy, then damn straight you aren't going to be interested in trying a bunch of guys out once each. When was the last time you didn't orgasm with a new partner, Cocky?
Posted by Eirene on September 20, 2012 at 3:55 PM · Report this
mydriasis 166
@crin

Something isn't working for her. I see no evidence (besides old wive's tales) that oral sex is the thing that isn't working for her.

@seandr

If you want to view relationships in such a transactionary way, be my guest. But I don't. When I ended up sleeping with a future LTR at a party (the day after I met him) do you know what he did? He called me. The next day. (gasp!) That's right. No grace period, no waiting three days, none of that. And you know what? It didn't change the fact that he was a smoking hot babe. It just meant we got to have sex again sooner (a big win in my books) If a guy is nice, sincere, and straightforward I see it as a sign of maturity and confidence. Not a sign I'm somehow above him. When a guy tries to play games I assume he's trying to put up smoke and mirrors to distract from his small penis, like most men who read "The Game".
Posted by mydriasis on September 20, 2012 at 4:45 PM · Report this
167
No, DianeLGD, I'm right there with you. I'd love it if I could swallow as effortlessly as many in this thread can, but that's not me. I can no more swallow a habanero pepper than I can a load of spunk. That doesn't mean I think there's anything wrong with either, but if a guy required me to regularly chew up and chow down on an incredibly spicy pepper, I'd quit eating with him. Just like if swallowing is a requirement (or even getting come in my mouth), then we're not compatible, thanks-but-no-thanks, it's-not-you-it's-me.

I don't think that's unreasonable. While I agree with the principles of GGG, I'm no more going to be with a guy who requires that than I'm going to be with a woman. It's not what I'm into, not what I'm wired for, not what I'm up for.
Posted by Gamebird on September 20, 2012 at 4:55 PM · Report this
mydriasis 168
@ cocky

Regarding BLOW's letter: I don't understand straight guys. I just don't. Do they enjoy wasting three or more weeks dating each new girl before finding out that there is no sexual chemistry? Whatever may be wrong with dating behaviors in the gay world (and there is a lot), at least we get one thing right, namely we tend to get an answer to the crucial question of whether there is chemistry in the bedroom before investing too much time, money, and energy in a relationship.

Amen.
Frankly, I don't think that's a universal hetero thing. Probably more like small towns? I haven't really encountered that attitude in my own hetero experiences and my view towards relationships is the same was yours.
Posted by mydriasis on September 20, 2012 at 4:59 PM · Report this
169
DianeLGD@163, Dan's experts this summer said that some people are extra-sensitive to prostaglandins in semen. They were talking about a laxative effect, but maybe it could lead to vomiting too. Jesse Bering also proposed some other possible theories for people with trouble swallowing:

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…

See also
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…

Posted by EricaP on September 20, 2012 at 5:32 PM · Report this
170
ABW @148 -- I agree with you, especially this:
>> framing it as "let's both explore" in this safe space, is the best way to go.>>
Posted by EricaP on September 20, 2012 at 5:34 PM · Report this
Roma 171
My girlfriend doesn't like come in her mouth and she feels that doggy-style is objectifying to women. Therefore, we don't do either.

I've been with quite a few women who weren't into me coming in their mouth (which is OK, since it's not that big of a deal to me...although I think any woman who is into it is hot) but I can't recall any woman who was opposed to doggy-style. Even a woman I was with who was an ardent feminist, and would frequently use phrases like "objectifying to women", was into it (and, as a wonderful sexy bonus, anal sex as well.) I can understand a woman not wanting to have sex doggy-style all (or even most of) the time. But never?

but I do think there's a double standard at work here. She had an ex who refused to go down on her. When I said, "He needed to man up and take one for the team, even if he didn't like it," she readily agreed with me. So why can't she "take one for the team" and swallow my come?

I have to disagree. I think a woman just going down on a man, without having him come in her mouth, is equivalent to a man going down on a woman. And, while I'm at it, what's with men who refuse to go down on a woman? Unless a woman has some serious hygiene issues there (and I suspect that's very rare), what's the problem?

Posted by Roma on September 20, 2012 at 5:40 PM · Report this
172
I'm in the same boat as BLOW. Love giving head but having a hard time finding guys who stick around after I've swallowed their cum. It baffles me.
Posted by Michico on September 20, 2012 at 5:43 PM · Report this
Roma 173
I'm a female in my mid-20s who loves to give head. The problem is, I think I'm giving head too soon and guys don't see me as relationship material. . . . Most of the straight girls I hang out with believe that a guy needs to earn getting his dick sucked.

You're obviously going to bed with the wrong guys. My first girlfriend, in high school, had her mouth on me pretty quickly (and I had mine on her just as quickly) and we were together for four years.

You could do what Dan suggests -- "Stop sucking guys off on the first date and see if they stick around longer." -- but it seems to me that's only going to prolong these guys from leaving if all they're after is having you suck them. If a guy really likes you and is attracted to you and thinks the sex is great -- and, crucially, he wants a relationship, not just sex -- he's going to stick around if you suck him right away.
Posted by Roma on September 20, 2012 at 6:07 PM · Report this
174
@172, most first dates aren't going to lead to relationships, whether or not the first date involved chatting over coffee, a hot blow job, or participating in a sex orgy.

So plan first dates you enjoy and don't be surprised that you have to "kiss a lot of frogs" before you find someone with whom you connect.
Posted by EricaP on September 20, 2012 at 6:22 PM · Report this
175
Sorry, but Dan totally missed the mark with his advice to RANDY. RANDY mentioned swallowing, but the real problems sounds like the lack of follow-through on the blowjob. I am very familiar because I was considering sending a letter much like this one to Dan, except that it concerns my wife of 17 years.

A blowjob in which you have to finish off with a hand (hers or yours) is subpar. Sorry, it just is. I don't give a damn if it's swallowed or spit, but being left hanging right at the moment of climax is a total letdown.

For those that mentioned snowballing, I've done it. Asking for it is pretty much the only way I can get a complete BJ. But the problem is, immediately after guys come, they lose interest in sex. So a snowball might sound like the sexiest thing in the world two seconds before climax, and then...meh.

Semen may not be exactly the same as vaginal secretions, but there are certain times during a woman's cycle when she might not taste so sweet. And I deal. I don't think it's too much to ask for the same consideration.
Posted by punkboy on September 20, 2012 at 7:16 PM · Report this
itmeantnothing 176
I have a theory and suggestion for RANDY. Perhaps his gf is body conscious. I know that for me, at a young age, I felt like my stomach and ass (what I then considered "problem areas" were very exposed in that position. When you tak it from behind, there is some jiggling and smacking that just doesn't happen during missionary. If this is her issue, perhaps try the position with her lying on her stomach instead of all fours or with her leaning against a wall/shower/counter or propped over an ottoman or chair. I certainly felt more "degraded" when I was put in positions that made me feel unsexy. I have way less hangups and am more GGG now thanks to many patient lovers.

Lastly, to BLOW: I gave my husband head on our first date and it worked out. He knew that I was looking for an LTR though from the start, and communicated that he was too. Be upfront with your expectations!
Posted by itmeantnothing on September 20, 2012 at 9:25 PM · Report this
177
@160 - I agree! Every man I've dated with started out with us getting down in some fashion. Love the Opus image by the way!

Punkboy - does your wife know this, that it's a letdown to not come in her mouth?
Posted by Ms.11 on September 20, 2012 at 9:49 PM · Report this
seandr 178
@mydriasis: If you want to view relationships in such a transactionary way, be my guest. But I don't.

My perspective changes depending on whether we're discussing the sexuality of our species, as we often do here in Dan's comment section, or sexuality as I personally experience it. If I'm looking at patterns in human behavior, I aim for the role of detached observer. If you knew me, however, you'd see me as very much "in the moment" when it comes to my living my life.

But we don't have to choose between economics and love - they can both play a role. The market influences who many of us might consider as a mate (admit it!), but connection and chemistry are required to take things to the next level, as your example clearly demonstrates.

For many of us, myself included, when you find someone you really connect with, playing games only get's in the way.
Posted by seandr on September 20, 2012 at 11:41 PM · Report this
179
@53 I'm just over the whole "demeaning to women" defense of not liking certain sex acts- yeah, they are "demeaning" in that they play with the power dynamic in your relationship. And that's why guys get off on them and if your relationship is otherwise equal and healthy, your sex is going to get STALE as fuck if you can't play with those dynamics a little bit. That shit is engrained in our DNA as animals- most creatures are either submission or dominance seeking when it comes to sex.

And what if she happens to be one of those creatures who is dominance seeking? The idea that playing with power dynamics in a heterosexual relationship should always involve the female partner acting submissively because that's what "guys get off on" IS pretty degrading to women. They've only been dating three months, yet the onus is already on her to embrace her inner sub because what? She's the girl? Fuck that.

@124If she won't let you fuck her doggy because it's "objectifying to women", then you've got yourself a really shitty girlfriend with a disastrous hang up. Unless you are in the "beggars can't be choosers" category, go find yourself a woman who's happy to get on all fours, arch her back, and stick her nice round ass in the air for you so you can both enjoy a hot, objectifying fuck. Bonus points if she likes it when you slap her ass and/or pull her hair.

See, this shit right here is probably why she thinks doggy-style is demeaning. Because it comes with all this slapping and choking and hair-pulling shit attached.

To make myself clear; being submissive in bed is not demeaning. To have it assumed and expected that you should be submissive in bed simply because you are a woman and that's how heterosexual powerplay works--that IS demeaning.

Not all women like being submissive. That doesn't necessarily mean they have 'hang ups' any more than it makes YOU a prude if you don't happen to want to pose with your ass in the air while someone slaps and penetrates you.
More...
Posted by Melony on September 21, 2012 at 1:52 AM · Report this
180
@Ms. 11 - Yes, she knows. I've brought it up a few times. I am always careful to be appreciative and complimentary of the blowjobs I do get, and I've said I don't expect to come in her mouth every time. But she obviously really doesn't want to. So now, I'm in the position where I really want it, but I can't even enjoy it fully when I get it (every couple of years) since she's made it so clear she hates it.
Posted by punkboy on September 21, 2012 at 6:27 AM · Report this
181
I hear that if you eat specific types of food, your semen won't taste as bad. I get it that it's not for everyone, swallowing. But if you're really in love with who you're with, Why Not take one for the team and please your man? Maybe he'll remember what you did and cater to one of your deepest wishes, too. :-)
Posted by Happy :-) , without due process! on September 21, 2012 at 7:11 AM · Report this
182
@180, how about a lubed up fleshlight or warming sleeve to slip on top when your ready?

If you hate something, you hate it, just the way it is. But surely there's a good sub for a warm mouth!
Posted by Ms.11 on September 21, 2012 at 7:33 AM · Report this
183
I read a few comments which suggested that women who don't like doggie-style don't like sex. There are two reasons I don't like doggie-style (while I love sex in most other positions)-

1.) It does feel weird and sort of submissive to be on all fours. I can see how that translates to 'demeaning'- you have comparatively little control and are just bracing yourself against the humping, as opposed to positions where you can contribute significantly to the humping.

2.) Doggie-style is the position that causes the most penis-to-cervix contact. If you've never had anything repeatedly rammed against your cervix, news flash: it hurts.
Posted by relic on September 21, 2012 at 8:25 AM · Report this
184
aaaack!! when YOU'RE ready!
Posted by Ms.11 on September 21, 2012 at 8:33 AM · Report this
185
D
Posted by Meepster on September 21, 2012 at 9:29 AM · Report this
186
This may be a physical problem. I have an incredibly strong gag reflex - to the point that I retch when brushing my teeth. I can't even imagine giving a blowjob at all - I know I'd probably throw up on the poor guy - and if I did manage to make it through the blowjob without throwing up, having his cum in my mouth would definitely be way too much for me. It makes me feel queasy just thinking about it. I'm not a prude, I'm very sex-positive, I'm willing to try just about anything in bed - but this is not pleasant, fun, or even tolerable for me.

I know that Dan thinks that oral sex is a basic requirement, but not all of us can do it. I wish I could. My last boyfriend broke up with me because of this, and I really don't blame him. But at the same time, I don't want to retch and gag every time I have sex, either.
Posted by Meepmeepmeepmeep on September 21, 2012 at 9:38 AM · Report this
aureolaborealis 187
Maybe to help some women here feel a little less compelled to ascribe the desire to come in someone's mouth to fucked up, patriarchal motivations or equivalent ... imagine that every time someone ate your pussy, right before you came, they took their mouth off, and that warm, soft, wet contact was replaced with fingers or in some cases nothing but cold air. Not a big deal for some people, but kind of a let down for a lot of others.

That said. LW1's girlfriend is within her rights, and she's probably sexually incompatible with LW1. LW1: If you're reduced to asking repeatedly, it will probably never happen in a way that's satisfying to you, unless reluctant or begrudging participation are a turn-on for you.
My first LTR started in my teens with an older woman who was unwilling to participate in pretty much anything except PIV and cunnilingus. I didn't realize how unusual she was until I left her and met some enthusiastically sex-positive women.
Seems like you're better off just moving on. In my humble experience, most het or bi women will enjoy the things you're missing in your current relationship. Plus, there will be enough excitement and enthusiasm (and/or variety) that dropping a single act from the menu won't be a big deal, which doesn't seem to be the case for you now.

All assuming, of course, that you're not an asshole or a creep.
Posted by aureolaborealis on September 21, 2012 at 10:46 AM · Report this
aureolaborealis 188
Maybe to help some women here feel a little less compelled to ascribe the desire to come in someone's mouth to fucked up, patriarchal motivations or equivalent ... imagine that every time someone ate your pussy, right before you came, they took their mouth off, and that warm, soft, wet contact was replaced with fingers or in some cases nothing but cold air. Not a big deal for some people, but kind of a let down for a lot of others.

That said. LW1's girlfriend is within her rights, and she's probably sexually incompatible with LW1. LW1: If you're reduced to asking repeatedly, it will probably never happen in a way that's satisfying to you, unless reluctant or begrudging participation are a turn-on for you.
My first LTR started in my teens with an older woman who was unwilling to participate in pretty much anything except PIV and cunnilingus, and yes, the resistance was largely couched in pseudo-feminist language of the kind you're hearing. I didn't realize how unusual she was until I left her and met some enthusiastically sex-positive women.
Seems like you might better off just moving on. In my humble experience, most het or bi women will enjoy the things you're missing in your current relationship. Plus, there will be enough excitement and enthusiasm (and/or variety) that dropping a single act from the menu won't be a big deal, which doesn't seem to be the case for you now.

All assuming, of course, that you're not an asshole or a creep.
Posted by aureolaborealis on September 21, 2012 at 10:47 AM · Report this
aureolaborealis 189
I thought it warranted saying twice ...
Posted by aureolaborealis on September 21, 2012 at 10:47 AM · Report this
190
@Eirene, I understand your points regarding waiting. I wasn't deprecating them. What I was criticizing was the behavior of many guys who would dismiss women who happen to prefer not to wait. As for the difference between spending resources on dating and spending resources on cultivating a new friend, I think there are many - dating tends to be more stressful, much more expensive emotionally and financially, and the return of investment in percentage of dates who become friends is much lower. So there is an advantage to getting the sexual chemistry question out of the way sooner so as to rule out the duds quicker, assuming both parties do want to have sex.

To answer your other question, I have a hard time ejaculating when there is no chemistry, to the point where I will give up trying. I don't think it is that unusual for men, but I may be wrong.
Posted by cockyballsup on September 21, 2012 at 11:15 AM · Report this
191
It is demeaning to assume that your partner cannot have legitimate sexual preferences. "You haven't tried it with me," is bullshit. If you don't like it from behind for whatever reason, you don't. The end! So she doesn't like it from behind, there are only like a million other positions in the world. What I find so annoying about today's comments is that the assumption is that she SHOULD like it. If she feels demeaned while doing it then she can have sex in all of those other positions. If I were with a guy who kept bringing up one thing over and over again because he thought he SHOULD have it, that's not ok. That is really uncool. If your favorite thing is off the menu, let your partner know that you would really love it and ask that they consider it with whatever accommodations might be necessary, then leave it alone. Or leave that person. Whatever, but don't be a douche.
Posted by Can't we all be GGG? on September 21, 2012 at 11:19 AM · Report this
192
People who want a specific sex act they're not getting might consider figuring out more about their partner's sexual kinks. Sex isn't barter, but I find that I'm more enthusiastic about sex in every way when I'm getting my own kink satisfied.

In particular, many people (including many women) have a kink for submission. It's hard work being the dom and running the scene, but if your partner loves submitting, and if you can get into it, then over the course of a year (baby-step by baby-step) you should be able to use training and positive reinforcement to get almost any kind of common sex act.
Posted by EricaP on September 21, 2012 at 11:56 AM · Report this
193
Also, women who talk about sex acts being "objectifying to women" sometimes realize later they are very turned on by overt D/s, because it's so "wrong." Not always, of course, but it's worth a conversation to see if they might be interested in some D/s role-play, whether as top or bottom.
Posted by EricaP on September 21, 2012 at 12:06 PM · Report this
194
Got it. Woman who can't resist blowing strangers wonders why she can't convert them into boyfriends.
Posted by RomanHans on September 21, 2012 at 12:47 PM · Report this
aureolaborealis 195
@191: I'm going to go ahead and speculate that the two issues the LW brings up are but the tip of the iceberg. And I agree with you: She's within her rights to not do something she finds disturbing.

And he should probably find someone else, because he's also allowed to have sexual preferences.
Posted by aureolaborealis on September 21, 2012 at 1:19 PM · Report this
196
@Meepmeep - sorry, this is gonna get graphic. Question: You can still lick...things, lol, just not put things in your mouth? I don't know what your practice is now, but some enthusiastic tongue contact w/ a lubed up hand seems like a pretty fair offering if you can't go the bj route. Just puttin it out there! :)

LW1 - there's all kinds of replies from a ton of women who've had similar feelings - hope you read those & get something out of it!
Posted by Ms.11 on September 21, 2012 at 1:54 PM · Report this
197
I hope I'm not repeating myself. I'm on a new computer where it's not as easy as it used to be to search up the list of comments to reply to one by number. I prefer to think of this as clarifying.

I understand what it is to think a particular sex act is icky (swallowing cum, for example). I don't understand what it is to think a particular sex act is demeaning. (Even fantasy play where I act subservient doesn't strike me as demeaning. It's just something to do to turn him on. Doing all the housework or being the object of his temper would be demeaning, but then it's not sexual.)

So I think my earlier advice to RANDY to try easing his girlfriend into a rear entry position when she's turned on comes from my thinking that she would be able to get past thinking something was icky if she could do so when she was turned on. I don't see repercussions for that when she thought about it later. It would just be "gee, not as bad as I thought," and the memory would give her a thrill again.

There are also sex acts that are painful or uncomfortable even if they can be hot too. Doggie style is that for me. I like it, then am all the more likely to come down with a UTI the next day. At this stage in my life, I'm more likely to feel an uncomfortable irritation on my urethra, but in that case, I'm going to say "ouch, stop that" the moment it bothers me.
Posted by Crinoline on September 21, 2012 at 2:34 PM · Report this
198
So when RANDY's girlfriend says she needs time to grow more comfortable with what RANDY is asking, you have to wonder what's going to happen in time that's going to make a difference. You also have to wonder if RANDY is saying "are you comfortable yet?" every night on the car ride home from dinner. I suggest that he ease her into it slowly, or maybe promise her that he'll only have her in that doggie style position for a minute before turning her over to front to front again as a way of taking slow.
Posted by Crinoline on September 21, 2012 at 2:40 PM · Report this
199
Dan was the one who said "demeaning." The LW said his girlfriend said "objectifying." I'm not sufficiently convinced that was her exact wording to base a whole lot on it.
Posted by Eirene on September 21, 2012 at 4:30 PM · Report this
200
It seems pretty obvious that no one should perform any act they find unpalatable, and should never be pressured to do so.

That said, my experience is that once I had a few girlfriends who enjoyed swallowing, liked it in all positions, and were all around kinky-as-fuck, a woman who doesn't like to give head or swallow is going to leave me feeling as if she's not the lover for me - it's just something I couldn't give up, knowing there are women out there who enjoy it.

On the other hand, I've met men who really, truly, just don't like receiving blowjobs. Perhaps us heteros need hanky codes...
Posted by Ornithorhynchus on September 22, 2012 at 1:11 AM · Report this
201
Hi Dan,

Perhaps the taste of Healthy Straight Man's come is not to his girlfriend's taste? Just as other body fluids are affected by the amount of water we drink so is come.
Concentrated come is probably not to any woman's taste.
If HSS upped his daily water intake - as say, runners, or many yoga teachers do - he may find his girlfriend a whole lot more willing...
- Go Only With Guys With Nice Habits
Posted by Dean and Valerie on September 22, 2012 at 2:02 AM · Report this
202
What a nightmare Cindy Gallop is! There is not enough room on this earth for her ego and an oxygen molecule. She can't bear to let anyone get a word in edgeways. Awful.
Posted by Lapiros on September 22, 2012 at 5:40 AM · Report this
203
No one has brought up the possibility that the girl giving head right away may be giving really bad head? Maybe that's why they don't stick around...

(Not claiming it's likely; just found it amusing that it hasn't come up.)
Posted by just a thought on September 22, 2012 at 5:56 AM · Report this
Aurora Erratic 204
For BLOW: trust me, that's not it.
Posted by Aurora Erratic http://www.finemesspottery.com on September 22, 2012 at 8:17 AM · Report this
205
My sense about RANDY is that the GF thinks certain acts are objectifying because RANDY IS an objectifying douche and with RANDY they are. I realise that Dan can't always respond to the 'feeling' one gets from a letter but I sure can - and I'd bet a lot of money that Randy is an asshole.

Posted by Vivic on September 22, 2012 at 8:42 AM · Report this
206
Seandr- 138, 153 Yes. Desirability is a hard thing to quantify, so it's hard to put any sort of scientific blessing on this, but I have noticed that it seems to work this way in real life. Sure there are exceptions, but in general, long term relationships don't work out when there are too great disparities between the participants. That could be income potential, intelligence, mental health, physical attractiveness. Long term relationships also seem to work best in situations where one person't weaknesses are offset by the other's strengths. Maybe he's socially awkward while she's better with people or any of a thousand other ways people can complement (and compliment) each other.
Posted by Crinoline on September 22, 2012 at 8:45 AM · Report this
mydriasis 207
@203

Oh, I thought of it, but I knew if I said something like that people would add it to the ongoing list of catty remarks I make and I wouldn't live it down for weeks.
Posted by mydriasis on September 22, 2012 at 8:47 AM · Report this
208
@183 relic: Spot ON!!! This is but one reason why I'm so happily divorced:
my ex just didn't understand this, and having sex with him became an unenjoyable chore for me. Thank you so much for bringing this up!
Posted by auntie grizelda on September 22, 2012 at 12:43 PM · Report this
209
You've lived a lot down.
Posted by Hunter78 on September 22, 2012 at 7:31 PM · Report this
210
Its like this RANDY as far as the come in the mouth deal. . . Its NASTY. I too LOVE to give head in fact I insist on giving lots of head. I also insist on NO come in my mouth EVER! You girl like me may have allergies. I have seasonal and other allergies that, to be gross, give me nasal drainage every bloody day. Yes I take not one but TWO different prescription allergy pills as well as nasal spray to try and control them. Guess what come tastes and feels like? It tastes and feels like snot which is gross. She like me may not associate sexual pleasure with more snot in my mouth. Want me to hock a loogie in your mouth and insist you swallow it? Now I could take one for the team and just finish a guy that way but I wont. So just be damned glad you are getting blow jobs and stfu about not getting to finish in her mouth.
Posted by Xoshi on September 22, 2012 at 7:55 PM · Report this
211
RANDY- she is not opposed to doggy style, probably insecure. Offer up a back massage, work your way down with lots of reassuring compliments and body kisses. Do this a couple of times, work the hands to get her off... her butt is going to go up instictively.
Your cum probably tastes yuck or is viscus(worst word in the world) and she doesn't want to puck on your dick. So, that is very nice of her. Eat more fruit.
Posted by taskchick on September 22, 2012 at 10:36 PM · Report this
212
Precum is ambrosia.
Posted by Hunter78 on September 23, 2012 at 6:58 AM · Report this
213
@212:
You sure? Ambrosia confers immortality.
Posted by migrationist on September 23, 2012 at 7:25 AM · Report this
214
Randy,

she takes my dick out of her mouth and points it at my stomach

You sound too passive. Whose dick is it anyway? You know she doesn't like your coming in her mouth. Have you tried pulling out and spewing on her tits or face, and how does she feel about that? We can't give deeper advice until we know about that.

We know you have your 2 favorite activities and they're important to you. But how often do you need them? If once in a while, you have a goal you can work to. If you expect them every time, look for another girl. Why should she have a boring sex life?

Posted by Hunter78 on September 23, 2012 at 7:39 AM · Report this
215
Mig,

You need to get enough of it.
Posted by Hunter78 on September 23, 2012 at 7:41 AM · Report this
216
Hun,

so you're slurping it by the gallon?
Posted by migrationist on September 23, 2012 at 8:40 AM · Report this
217
I'm not immortal.
Posted by Hunter78 on September 23, 2012 at 10:09 AM · Report this
218
The whole "maybe THIS bullshit, maybe THAT bullshit", is LAME. And the MTV ends are making it too easy to mail in these tepid responses to douchebag straigt 18-24s. How much money and exposure do you actually need, as much as possible ?
Posted by DanIsaRichOldWhiteLadyNow on September 23, 2012 at 12:11 PM · Report this
mydriasis 219
Hunter, you know what bleach SMELLS like - you have no idea what it tastes like. I strongly encourage you to remedy your ignorance on the matter.
Posted by mydriasis on September 23, 2012 at 1:13 PM · Report this
220
@Randy

I'm pretty keen on kinky sex, enjoy being sub and like a bit of dirty sex, but there are certain positions I don't find hot even now, and that includes what people generally think of as doggy style. There is simply very little intimacy with doggy style, and the sort of acts anyone who's been exposed to it through porn will associate it with - hair pulling, arse slapping, DP - are going to be major turn offs for women who aren't into D/s stuff.

So, what is it about the doggy style you want? Would spooning be an appropriate substitute? The angle is from behind, which can feel good, but it has the bonus of being much more intimate than traditional doggy-style. You can hold her close, whisper in her ear, kiss her neck, and your hands can reach her whole body. She can also reach you much more easily, instead of having her arms used to hold herself up.

If what you get off on with doggy style is the "degrading" stuff - the hair pulling, the lack of intimacy, arse slapping, the feeling of dominance - then she's not wrong in feeling objectified by it, if that sort of thing isn't for her.

That said, FFS BACK OFF about it for a little while. You say "whenever I bring it up" which tells me this is something you've talked to her about multiple times. And you've been together FOR THREE MONTHS. For all you know she'll get into it if you give her some damn time. Some people take longer to get comfortable and intimate than others - my other half had never given anal before and it took months before he was willing to try it with me - now he loves it. Conversely, I didn't feel able to say "I love you" for almost 2 years. 3 months is a REALLY short time to have had this conversation with your GF enough times to feel the need to write to Dan Savage about it.

You know what makes me take longer to feel comfortable with someone? If that someone nags me every week to get comfortable more quickly. It's a major turn off to be pressured, not to mention a warning sign that the person you're with doesn't care about anything but their own needs.
More...
Posted by BunnyM on September 23, 2012 at 2:27 PM · Report this
221
What on earth does hair pulling have to do with rear-entry sex? I don't like my hair pulled in any direction, but if I did, well, it's accessible from all sides.
Posted by Eirene on September 23, 2012 at 3:47 PM · Report this
seandr 222
@220, @221: Hasn't a man ever run his fingers through your hair and massaged the back of your neck and head, occasionally clutching your hair and pulling gently? It's feels awesome. I certainly enjoy it when a woman does it to me.

It does require you to be comfortable with mild submission, however, and judging from this thread, even the giving the appearance of submission is off limits for some women.
Posted by seandr on September 24, 2012 at 11:09 AM · Report this
223
HA HA!
If you're a het male writing Dan Savage for advice, then you're FUBAR.
Look, any woman with those kinds of hangups either suffered some sort of abuse, or she's a militant feminist. Either way, you're just wasting your time.

Swallowing the load is no more of a chore than going down on a woman who is, shall we say, less than spring fresh.

Lastly, fuck you Dan for taking one more GGG woman out of the het dating rotation by telling her not to put out on the first date. Seattle women are a big enough pain as it is without an old gay nannygoat telling them to wait.
Posted by theTroof on September 24, 2012 at 1:17 PM · Report this
224
Poor 223,
not gotten any lately? :-(
Posted by migrationist on September 24, 2012 at 1:25 PM · Report this
225
HA HA!
If you're a het male writing Dan Savage for advice, then you're FUBAR.
Look, any woman with those kinds of hangups either suffered some sort of abuse, or she's a militant feminist. Either way, you're just wasting your time.

Swallowing the load is no more of a chore than going down on a woman who is, shall we say, less than spring fresh.

Lastly, fuck you Dan for taking one more GGG woman out of the het dating rotation by telling her not to put out on the first date. Seattle women are a big enough pain as it is without an old gay nannygoat telling them to wait.
Posted by TheTroof! on September 24, 2012 at 1:26 PM · Report this
226
@222: I'm not submissive (the whole dom/sub thing simply makes no sense to me; it's not how I think about sex). But the main objection I have to hair pulling is that it hurts and it's humiliating. No one's ever tried it on me in a sexual context, but they'd soon learn not to. Having my hair or scalp caressed is quite another thing.

I do get the idea of there being desirable kinds and degrees of pain, but hair pulling just ain't one of them as far as I am concerned. For one thing I associate it with being too young to get the tangles out of my own hair, and with playground bullies. Nothing sexy about feeling like a miserable eight-year-old.
Posted by Eirene on September 24, 2012 at 1:59 PM · Report this
227
@224 for the win!!
Posted by auntie grizelda on September 24, 2012 at 2:17 PM · Report this
228
If someone is thinking at all about the politics of submission of doggy style during sex, they should really just do their partner a favor and go pay bills or something, because they are certainly not turned on and nobody is getting much joy out of the going-through-the-motions sex they are having.
Posted by cockyballsup on September 24, 2012 at 2:53 PM · Report this
229
Not including your mom, "migrationist", I'm currently juggling 3 women.

I'm telling you guys, the college feminists are fun for a few weeks, but the mainstream women are more fun and don't drag Marx and Steinem into bed with them.
Posted by TheTroof! on September 24, 2012 at 3:15 PM · Report this
230
Myd,

That was pretty weak.
Posted by Hunter78 on September 24, 2012 at 4:22 PM · Report this
nocutename 231
@226: Yes, having one's hair pulled is (or can be) both painful and humiliating, and that is the appeal for many of us who like it. It also forces the pullee's head up and back, baring the throat, and is a position which establishes the dominance of the puller. I'm getting a little weak in the knees just thinking about it.

To each her own.
Posted by nocutename on September 24, 2012 at 5:57 PM · Report this
mydriasis 232
@ Eirene

Hair pulling in the bedroom is the human equivalent of when animals get picked up by the scruff of their neck. It looks painful but it's typically not. Generally the puller grabs a fistful of hair (so any force is spread out over more follicles) close to the root.

Schoolyard hair pulling is just the opposite. That's grabbing a small strand of hair, closer to the end and sharply tugging (which DOES hurt!)

Very different. I don't like pain but hair pulling's quite alright in my books and actually sexy when done right.
Posted by mydriasis on September 24, 2012 at 8:52 PM · Report this
233
"Your girlfriend, like so many other girlfriends and boyfriends before her, may be trying to run out the clock. She may hope that by the time you realize she's never going to do your bedroom favorites, you'll be too emotionally invested in the relationship to dump her."

My wife told me she loved to give head and receive oral sex. This was the first but not the last lie she would tell me.
Posted by Professor on September 24, 2012 at 9:56 PM · Report this
nocutename 234
Good point, mydriasis, about how hair pulling during sex is different from playground hair pulling. It exerts force and pressure, and sometimes a scalp tingle, but no real pain. And it is sexy as hell--to me.
But we don't all have the same responses.

Generally speaking, hair pulled during sex is grabbed in such a way as to move the whole head. Frequently the hair is pulled when one partner is behind the other; hence the association with rear entry sex. I understand that "the whole dom/sub thing simply makes no sense to [you]" and it's not how you think about sex, but lots of people do think of sex as a power exchange and the D/s dynamic makes a lot of very compelling sense to a lot of people. It's nice that here we are all able to broaden our minds, if not our experience, and try and understand each other's perspectives.
Posted by nocutename on September 24, 2012 at 10:57 PM · Report this
nocutename 235
Clarification: in my comment at # 234,
I was addressing Eirene for the most part.
Posted by nocutename on September 24, 2012 at 10:59 PM · Report this
236
Here's another cocked and loaded question:
What would the world be like if all humans were unisex, but in a way that those who wanted to procreate still could, and those who didn't just didn't?
Would that be okay? Would we still have a bunch of stupid wars over it?
Would life become boring as hell? Sublime for those who don't give a shit
about gender-specific relationships? Would there be world
peace if no specific human could be considered a baby machine?
No need for abortion clinics?

Or would the Republicans STILL find some bizarre Banana Republic way
to fuck everything up and threaten to destroy the world?

My mind is running double-time this week.
Posted by auntie grizelda on September 24, 2012 at 11:00 PM · Report this
mydriasis 237
@ nocutename

Haha, I figured.

@ griz

I love gender roles. A lot. Also, in my opinion anatomy kind of plays a role in sex soo... it would depend on what you anatomically mean by 'unisex'.
Posted by mydriasis on September 25, 2012 at 5:11 AM · Report this
geoz 238
I dunno Dan. I think you gave RANDY a harder time than you normally do. If he describes the come swallow as a kink, does that make a difference? It seems that "kink" is kind of a magic word that means "dump the person" if you don't get what you want. What makes this whining when he just likes something sexually? And... I agree with someone else up there who said doggy is not objectifying. Some people don't feel as good in that position, but she has a block here that is not related to him. She may have work to do here.
Posted by geoz on September 25, 2012 at 7:37 AM · Report this
239
236- Auntie G

Check out science fiction writer Ursula Leguin. She does some nice work on gender-free society.
Posted by Crinoline on September 25, 2012 at 1:25 PM · Report this
seandr 240
@226: the whole dom/sub thing simply makes no sense to me; it's not how I think about sex

It's not "how I think about sex" either, but I do find role play, including games involving power imbalance, to be very fun and very sexy.

To have a woman basically say I can have my way with her (within pre-arranged limits)? Yes please! And having a woman treat me like a toy and "force" me to do naughty things. Hot!
Posted by seandr on September 25, 2012 at 4:28 PM · Report this
241
@Eirene- Hair pulling is something you can experiment with by yourself. I first found out I enjoyed it in more of a sensual way during a normal spa massage. Somehow I experimented doing it by myself and found if I do it really SLOWLY and STEADILY it can be *very* enjoyable. I have never even done it during any type of sex with someone else. The nice thing about doing it to yourself is that you are in full control. By myself, it is a sexually pleasurable feeling.
Posted by whiteorchid1 on September 25, 2012 at 10:20 PM · Report this
242
Also, totally not into D/s, btw.
Posted by whiteorchid1 on September 25, 2012 at 10:26 PM · Report this
243
Hey Randy, dump her. Now. The sex isn't going to get any better than it is at the moment. She's a woman who, way down deep, doesn't like sex. Which is about 25% of the women out there. Stay with her and you're going to regret it.
Posted by Mister G on September 26, 2012 at 12:20 AM · Report this
244
@mydryasis: I guess I'll have to think more on that one.
What I basically meant was a society that wasn't so obsessed
with what was considered male or female, and specific male or
female body parts.

@Crinoline: Thanks for the tip on author Ursula Leguin!!
Posted by auntie grizelda on September 26, 2012 at 12:21 PM · Report this
245
@avast

"she is disgusted by having a big glob of nasty taste and alarming texture blasted down her throat." "Um, that WOULD be alarming, if that's at all what swallowing was like. Has that been your experience? Or are you just assuming."

It actually is what the experience is like for me and us non-swallowers. I don't find it degrading, I just physically can't do it. Imagine having a giant wad of salty snot/phlegm (specifically someone else's giant wad of salty snot/phlegm) shot directly onto your taste buds. I've tried swallowing numerous times and have thrown up on more than one occasion. On. My. Partner. Ugh. The few times I have managed to actually get it down my throat I have severe stomach unrest for the entire day. After throwing up on your partner's dick or getting sick, you get a little gun shy about it. In order not to associate my partner's dick with something I hate, I respectfully ask that they come anywhere they want except in my mouth.

But some people don't have that reaction at all and really like it and that's totally cool. Wish I didn't, but my partners seem pretty ok with the trade-off of me not throwing up on them as they are coming.

When guys have been a little miffed about the fact that I won't swallow, I tell them to swallow there own come or a glass of my snot/phlegm once and then come back and talk to me about it. Just try it; see what you think.


Posted by andi on September 27, 2012 at 11:32 PM · Report this
246
I DISAGREE WITH Dan Savage's ADVICE TO, "Randy."

WHY IS,"Randy," SEEKING ADVICE ON FEMALE- SEMEN-SWALLOWING FROM A HOMOSEXUAL SITE? THE ANSWERS HE SEEKS CAN ONLY COME FROM FEMALES. IF A "chick" TAKING NUT DOWN THE THROAT IS IMPORTANT TO "Randy," HE NEEDS TO EVALUATE THE IMPORTANCE OF SEX IN HIS RELATIONSHIP; THEN, THE IMPORTANCE OF HIS GIRLFRIEND.

UNHAPPY SEX LIVES ONLY LEAD TO TROUBLE IN RELATIONSHIPS.

CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON
Posted by CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON on September 28, 2012 at 8:39 PM · Report this
247
A few things:
For RANDY, don't do the shift position mid maneuver thing, that... seems an awful lot like trying to trick her into doing something she said she doesn't want.

But don't just talk to her about it when she's eating breakfast or whatever.

What I'd suggest is... leave the subject *completely* alone for at least 2 weeks. Then, suggest it to her while you're, say, eating her out--that is, while she is very much in the mood, and you are doing your best to make her very happy first.

On the blow job issue: flavored condoms?

And, for BLOW: may I suggest you at least refrain from blow-jobs on the *first* date? Because, like it or not, that tends to send one of 2 messages. One, that you are just looking for a little fun, not a relationship. Or, two, that you're desperate. And, well, barring a few narrow circumstances, desperation is just *not* sexy.
Posted by Melissa Trible on September 29, 2012 at 5:48 PM · Report this

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