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Big Issues

May 28, 2014

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I'm a 25-year-old straight guy. Last month, I was in the locker room at my gym. It was 4 a.m., and I was the only one around. I was getting ready to leave, when I noticed someone exiting the showers. He kinda caught me looking (he was very well-endowed), and I quickly turned my head, embarrassed. About 20 seconds later, he came around the corner and said, "Hey, how ya doin'?" He was still naked, and it was obvious that he was wondering if I wanted to try something. (Trust me-he was about 10 or 11 inches now!) I didn't know what to think, so I just got the hell out of there as fast as I could. I've never been with a guy before, but for the past few weeks, I can't stop thinking about it. I kinda wish I hadn't left so fast. I guess I'm really turned on by the size, and curious about maybe trying oral? That's all I'm curious about trying, nothing else. I am way more attracted to girls than guys, but I can't shake these thoughts.

Panic At The Dick, So?

I was wondering what happened to Joey from Friends.

Look, PATDS, you're clearly straight enough to continue identifying as straight. But as you learned in that locker room, to get yourself to straight (or to remain at straight), you have to round yourself down the tiniest bit. (Or round yourself up the tiniest bit. Up, down—depends on how you feel about straight.) But you are now consciously aware that you're more than a little curious about dick, and given the right circumstances (oral-only circumstances) and the right dick (great big dick), you could hit/suck/stroke that.

Since that giant 4 a.m. dick wasn't your last chance at dick, PATDS, you didn't miss your only opportunity to explore your bisexual/heteroflexible/man-on-man desires. There are other giant dicks out there. Hell, you might get another chance at that particular dick. The next time an opportunity presents itself—whether you leave that opportunity to chance (another encounter with Mr. Ten or Eleven Inches Now) or create your own opportunities (taking out a few NSA sex ads)—put your very limited interests (oral only) and even more limited experience (none whatsoever) on the table and let the dude decide if he's in (your mouth).


I can orgasm without stimulating my clitoris—but only through anal sex. What gives?

A Nosy Admiring Lass

The Lord giveth, ANAL, and it seems He gave you an amazing superpower. I wouldn't question it too much, lest the Lord peg you for an ingrate and taketh away.


I'm a 25-year-old lesbian, and I live with my partner of two years. My family is coming to visit from Texas, where they are part of a hyperconservative church. I'm not out to my mom. While I want this to be a happy occasion, I'm not willing to hide who I am in my own home. My sister owes me one from when I told our mom—at her request—that she was pregnant because she feared her reaction. I'm considering asking my sister to out me to my mom so that maybe she'll be done screaming and yelling by the time she arrives. I know this is chickenshit, but I also can't bring myself to come out to her. I've tried before and can never summon the courage.

Anxiously Fearing Repulsive And Irrational Diatribes

My advice for you is the same as my advice for all queer kids with crazy, hyperconservative parents: Don't fear their rejection—make them fear yours. Tell your mom you're queer, AFRAID, and then tell her that you won't speak to her or see her if she can't treat you and your partner with respect. Remember: The only leverage an adult child has over her parents is her presence. If your mom treats you like shit, absent yourself. If she's rude to you in your own home, kick her ass out. You're a grown woman, and it's time to stop being scared of mommy.


My boyfriend and I have been together for four years, and we have a great relationship. In the bedroom, I am generally the bottom but I play an equal role during sex—neither dominant nor submissive—and in general, we have great sex. But both of us have things that we like to do that the other is not a big fan of. I enjoy being the bottom, but I like to top as well. My partner, who does not particularly enjoy bottoming, is turned on by the idea of the other person being submissive. Both of us are GGG and willing to explore these things together. But is it okay to put limits on how often this happens? (Me submitting to him, him bottoming for me?) What about striking a deal where each person gives a little? How do we compromise, keep it fun, and keep our GGG status intact?

Quid Pro Quo

What I'm about to propose may seem elaborate, QPQ, but bear this in mind while you read my advice: Marijuana is legal where I live.

Take the average number of times you two have sex in any given month and divide that number in half, then divide it in half again. You each get a stack of red poker chips equal to whatever the third number is plus one blue poker chip. So let's say you guys have sex 12 times a month on average. Half of 12 is six, half of six is three—you each get four chips: three red, one blue. (You still with me? Good. Man, I could use some chips right now myself.) You keep your chips on your nightstand, and your boyfriend keeps his chips on his. On nights when you want to top your boyfriend, you hand him one of your red chips. On nights when he wants you to be submissive, he hands you one of his red chips. If he doesn't want to bottom for you on a night when you hand him a chip, he can veto your red chip by surrendering one of his. Likewise, you can veto one of his red chips by surrendering one of yours. When a veto is played, you default to the sex you have most of the time, i.e., your "regular" sexual routine (which seems to entail you bottoming for him as his equal), and the chip used to veto is forfeit. You each have to use your three red chips in one calendar month—an unused chip doesn't carry over to the next month.

Basically, QPQ, you have three chances per month to top him, and he has three chances per month to dominate you. If he wants to deny you one of your chances to top him, he loses one of his chances to dominate you. You don't have to be submissive when you're not feeling it, and he doesn't have to bottom when he's not feeling it. But if you never agree to submit—if you veto all of his requests—you never get to top him. If he never agrees to bottom, then he never gets to dominate you. And what's the blue chip for? It's a "free veto," a chip you can sacrifice without giving up one of your chances to fuck or dominate the other.

So there you go! With the help of legal marijuana, I've turned your compromise into a sexy game. Have fun! recommended


On the Lovecast: Premature ejaculation—what can be done? At savagelovecast.com.

mail@savagelove.net

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Comments (101) RSS

Oldest First Unregistered On Registered On Add a comment
1
You lost me at "we're gonna do math".
Posted by Writer on May 27, 2014 at 7:01 PM · Report this
2
Tee hee. "Peg you for an ingrate."
Posted by Lexy on May 27, 2014 at 7:10 PM · Report this
3
I am so confused by those poker chips. I'm sure it's a lovely idea for the more math-adept, though.
Posted by Sancho on May 27, 2014 at 8:34 PM · Report this
4
@PATDS - I identify as a Gay man (5.9999999 on the Kinsey scale). But I'd always had a curiosity about eating pussy. I wanted to try it in a totally NSA scenario. I had/have no interest in actually fucking. Just wanted to know what it would be like to eat pussy given how very oral I am in general with sex.

2 opportunities for NSA pussy-eating availed themselves and I went for it. It was interesting and I enjoyed the experiences would do them again if other NSA opportunities came along.

Am I now bisexual? No in the least. I still consider myself very Gay/homosexual. Very much still prefer dick and a hairy man's ass over pussy, but I'm very glad that I tried it.
Posted by piss-cum-pig on May 27, 2014 at 9:18 PM · Report this
5
@Sancho I dunno, I don't think math gets any simpler than dividing something by 4.
Posted by mathemagician on May 27, 2014 at 9:29 PM · Report this
seandr 6
I love marijuana, and I love the poker chip sex game.

Wouldn't work with women, though. Poker chips, that is. Marijuana might.
Posted by seandr on May 27, 2014 at 9:37 PM · Report this
7
What if you have sex less than 4 times per month?
Posted by Married with children on May 27, 2014 at 9:40 PM · Report this
Allen Gilliam 8
I'm considering asking my sister to out me to my mom so that maybe she'll be done screaming and yelling by the time she arrives.

Why not do it by letter? Tell her you don't want a big fight. You've been making Jesus cry for two years and you're not going to start liking cock because of anything your mom says. (You may want to phrase that differently.) Explain Dan's rule about respecting you and your partner or she's not welcome in your home. Tell your mom not to contact you until she can be civil and not bring up Leviticus.
Posted by Allen Gilliam http://softlyspokenmagicspells.com on May 27, 2014 at 11:17 PM · Report this
9
LW3-I understand that you are afraid of your mother's reaction to you being a lesbian but YOU need to be the one to tell her. If you cop out and make your sister do it or act all sheepish and uncertain about telling her, she will take that to mean you are ashamed or not "really" gay. She will pick at you on this issue every chance she gets. You need to be firm and positive when you tell her. Don't be rude or disrespectful but let her know that you will not change your mind or just try dating a man to please her. You must be proud and happy to introduce your lady to your family and let her know you will not tolerate your lady being made to feel uncomfortable in her own home. If your mom wigs out and throws a biblical temper tantrum, let her know you will be happy to make her reservations at a local hotel/motel of her choosing and help her make travel plans back home. Do not let her bully you or make you feel dirty, odd, or ashamed. If she trys to use religion against you, remind her that nowhere in the bible does Jesus speak against homosexuality. In fact it clearly says his ministry was built by women, prostitutes, homosexuals, and tax collectors. Just be strong, stand firm and make her realize that you will not tolerate disrespect to you and your lady.
Posted by bxtorr19 on May 28, 2014 at 1:02 AM · Report this
Dirtclustit 10
Afraid,

If you are so stressed out because you want your parents to know your sexual orientation, but cannot bring yourself to telling them because you fear they are clueless when it comes to recognizing the difference between Love and hate, support and abuse, it is not in any way cowardly to have your sister tell them.

Unless you have some sort of crazy incest thing going on, they don't any say nor a vote to decide that who you are sexually is right or wrong.

Unless you're meddling in an adults sexuality, and you are not in a relationship with said adult and they didn't ask you, your views on sexuality will always be right, especially when you are intelligent enough to understand that it is very abusive to invade those personal aspects of another person's private life without explicit consent.

Not respecting those aspects of another person's life, is just plain fucking ignorant as well as despicable.

But it doesn't stop people, especially family members, or anyone else you allow into your life from not choosing to remain ignorant.

Knowing your rights can be crucial to your emotional health, as there seems to always be a large percentage of human alive -- even today -- with flawed outlooks of right and wrong and it's plays a huge role in the rapist mentality of the world that so few people acknowledge.

You know your parents better than I do, and I am sure you know in your heart whether or not they will choose ignorance and willingly ignore the line that separates love and hate, support and abuse

you'd think each pair would be unmistakable, yet evidently minor situational details that have nothing to do with love and hate or right and wrong routinely cause lapses of reason in soooo many people.

It doesn't take much for a person to become oblivious to the difference between responsibile and irresponsible behaviors which cannot be separated from certain freedoms and liberties afforded human being in these latter days
More...
Posted by Dirtclustit on May 28, 2014 at 1:11 AM · Report this
11
A Nosy Admiring Lass
This short article may explain what is happening:"5 Things You Should Know About the PS-Spot" https://shine.yahoo.com/love-sex/5-thing…
Posted by compagno on May 28, 2014 at 1:24 AM · Report this
sissoucat 12
@seandr Please elaborate : why wouldn't chips work with women ?

I, a woman, have devised a nightstand sex game for hetero people in a LTR. The man puts a bill on the nighstand. If, at the end of the sex session, the normally-orgasmic woman is left sexually unsatisfied, meaning : she got no orgasm, or only not very intense ones, she keeps the bill. Same thing for the woman : she puts a bill on the nightstand and if the guy fails to orgasm, he gets the woman's bill.

No man ever accepted to play it with me. They wanted there to be no consequences for not being a good and giving enough partner to me. Also, no woman I talked to ever accepted to play it to her husband. They argued they would make the poor dear feel emasculated, because in all truthfulness the woman would get both bills everytime.

My meaning is not that no hetero man in a LTR ever was a GGG partner, but that an awful lot of them, and their wives, would never want to bet they are, or to face the fact that maybe they aren't. Equality in the bedroom is not happening for people of my generation in my country.
Posted by sissoucat on May 28, 2014 at 2:03 AM · Report this
13
The number of people freaking out because Dan said "divide by 2" is quite worrying...
Posted by John Stag on May 28, 2014 at 3:00 AM · Report this
Dirtclustit 14
are talking about where dipshit says:

"....divide that number in half..."

"...then divide it in half again..."

and that kooky way "lf" turns to "lv"

like all the plural F's change to V

dividing by the halves
Posted by Dirtclustit on May 28, 2014 at 4:39 AM · Report this
15
Dan- gotta remember dope can mess with the mind. Might even
Happen that you post a letter that you posted week or so ago ..
AFRAID. My feeling is, if you let the visit happen before you have
Told your mother and other family members that you are a lesbian-
Well, could set up conditions for a big problem.
Are you worried they won't come? Highly probable..
You may have to go thru a period of time where you
Loose touch.. That may be the outcome of you owning up
To your truth.
Either, meet them as they arrive. Away from your home. Away
From your partner. And be full in your disclosure of who you are.
Seeing you face to face.. Or ring your mother before she leaves.
Be brave. Good luck.

Posted by LavaGirl on May 28, 2014 at 4:49 AM · Report this
16
I think for at least some of women who can climax from anal alone (I don't have a giant sample set . . . myself and a few friends), it's x% indirect clitoral stimulation (as Dan is fond of reminding us, most of the clitoris is internal), x% indirect G-spot stimulation (anal seems to really activate the G-spot at least for me), and x% psychological (if you're really into anal, especially perhaps if you're doing it as part of a D/s game that already has you all worked up, the extra 'naughtiness' can add a fair bit of je ne sais quoi). ymmv of course. Also, I see what you did there with "I wouldn't question it too much, lest the Lord peg you."
Posted by Kinky Ana on May 28, 2014 at 5:03 AM · Report this
17
Ms Sissou - (This is a non-serious post until the next parenthetical phrase is reached and I get to more important matters than sex)

You've tilted the field:

"not very intense ONES" equivalent to "fails to orgasm"?

Any feeble dribble will do, but the corresponding performance has to be worthy of "Madame Evert" as Chris was called after she divorced John Lloyd, or Sr Nadal? (Why DO the French seem so lukewarm about poor Rafa, anyway? One would think they'd be pleased to have beaten the other major tournaments in producing the first male eight-time winner. Are they that devoted to the memory of Hr Borg?)

As long as I'm on to tennis, what was the French press take on the Wozilroy split? At first he seemed more distressed than she did, but now it's looking as if it was almost rude of Rory to go out and win Europe's second most prestigious golf tournament last weekend while poor Caroline, whose draw had opened up for her in a big way, went out in the first round at Roland Garros. Perhaps the moral is not to send out wedding invitations until after Wimbledon when there's that long stretch of hard court tournaments in severe heat. (I grieve for the loss of the US grass court tournaments; this will be the 40th anniversary of the last US Open on grass, when Jimmy Connors and Chris Evert were about to break off their engagement, Ken Rosewall reached the final at age 39 as he'd done at Wimbledon, and the Billie Jean King-Evonne Goolagong women's final, which was ten games longer than the men's final despite being 2/3 sets instead of 3/5, silenced the male whiners who were griping about Equal Prize Money.)

(And, just in case the opening of this post seemed anti-woman, I have long thought it a disgrace that they didn't name the primary court after Mlle Lenglen.)
More...
Posted by vennominon on May 28, 2014 at 5:08 AM · Report this
18
What is the blue chip for? I need to know!
Posted by xxx1234 on May 28, 2014 at 5:16 AM · Report this
19 Comment Pulled (Trolling) Comment Policy
20 Comment Pulled (Trolling) Comment Policy
21 Comment Pulled (Threatening) Comment Policy
22
Are we supposed to know what Dan is talking about when he says "to get yourself to straight (or to remain at straight), you have to round yourself down the tiniest bit. (Or round yourself up the tiniest bit. Up, down—depends on how you feel about straight.)"???

Looks like the weed in Seattle is even more powerful than we thought.
Posted by wayne on May 28, 2014 at 6:33 AM · Report this
23
Marijuana can inspire interesting, tight ideas but at the expense of uninteresting, loose writing.
Posted by HCK on May 28, 2014 at 6:49 AM · Report this
24 Comment Pulled (Trolling) Comment Policy
Dirtclustit 25
Wayne, Dan is a fucking journalist, what did you expect?
Posted by Dirtclustit on May 28, 2014 at 7:03 AM · Report this
26
Ms Clust - I did say, "Europe's second most prestigious tournament".
Posted by vennominon on May 28, 2014 at 7:16 AM · Report this
27
Aside from having the cutest write-in name, Panic at the Dick, So rounding down to straight? He's a straight point one! Heh.
Posted by DRF on May 28, 2014 at 7:16 AM · Report this
28 Comment Pulled (Threatening) Comment Policy
29
AFRAID - tell your mother. I agree with @8. Write her a letter. I think it might be better for both of you. It will give her time to react without accidentally hurting you. Assuming she is going to freak out and get Biblical in a bad way. Maybe she won't, maybe she will. You don't say in the letter what your relationship is with your mother. I'm just guessing you are happy with it and don't want it changed by her knowing you are a lesbian. But you are. A lesbian, who is living a good life with a partner of two years! and she should know that.

Write a letter. Don't grovel, don't apologize, don't act like what you are doing is wrong. It isn't wrong. Just because her church make her think it is DOES NOT MAKE IT WRONG. Write her a joyful letter informing her you are in a relationship WITH YOUR GIRLFRIEND that is working out well and you are looking forward to her visit so she can see how happy you are. Don't say "I understand if you don't agree" or imply deal with this or else. Save those things if her reaction is negative and ugly.

Then I agree with Dan. If she won't accept your life, then she can't be a part of it.
Posted by Bugnroolet on May 28, 2014 at 7:53 AM · Report this
30
@22 - he's saying dude is slightly bi, but not much.

The "rounding" part comes from the Kinsey scale, a way of expressing the range of sexual orientation, where 0 is totally straight and 6 is totally gay.

So maybe the LW is, like, 0.5 on the scale. Just a tiny bit into guys. People that are low on the scale like that tend to "round down" to 0, that is, straight.
Posted by notfromvenus on May 28, 2014 at 8:15 AM · Report this
31
I'm with Dirtclustit @10
"It is not in any way cowardly to have your sister tell them...You know your parents."

I think it's less than helpful to say (@9): "Do not let her bully you...Make her realize that you will not tolerate disrespect to you and your lady."
Posted by EricaP on May 28, 2014 at 9:05 AM · Report this
32
@12 Perhaps the problem with your game is that the rules are uneven?

If some female orgasms are beneath notice, how is it that all male orgasms supposedly rate? Are you laboring under the false pretense that sex needs must end when a male ejaculates?
Posted by Gander At This Sauce For A Goose on May 28, 2014 at 9:22 AM · Report this
seandr 33
@sissoucat: It's hard for me to imagine any of the women I've been with accepting sexual obligations based on a poker chip (other than maybe as a one-off novelty thing). It's also hard for me to imagine refusing a woman based on a poker chip without paying for it later.

As for your bill game, sounds like you've encountered a lot of men who suck at sex. Personally, I don't need any additional motivation to try and make it fun for her, too, and my preferred method of operation is to ask, and if that doesn't go anywhere, just try things and observe.

Some women are easy to get off - it's just a matter of going down on her and/or being able to fuck for 5-10 minutes without losing your load. Others are more complicated, and if you're one of those, you'll get better results with me by communicating what you want/need rather than waiting until the end to give me a thumbs up or down.
Posted by seandr on May 28, 2014 at 9:58 AM · Report this
34
@7 - FTW!
Posted by TheBeard on May 28, 2014 at 10:20 AM · Report this
Dirtclustit 35
sick of anonymous,

short and sweet, the LW whether gay, straight, bi, or flaming versions of any of the three, he didn't do jack shit. He glanced at a naked man coming out of the shower.

The letter is fake, like most of the letters posted, it is entertainment.

The only reason I accused you of wanting to suck dick is because people comfortable with their sexuality don't get as upset at people as you did.

What you said about beating him up, was a seriously fucked up thing to say

I don't know you, and I don't know anything aboiut your sexuality, I was fucking with you because you were way out of line, you could very well be as straight as they come, I get pissed off here too, but not over someone's sexuality, over ignorance and journalism students who think its amusing to practice the dumbass covert and illegal ways of obtaining investigative info, only I am not important, its just practice plus the swarm mentality of the very tight knit community of asshole privacy invading blatant non-respecting asshole journalists.

Be whoever you are, sick of, but when you talk shit about something as harmless and nothing to do with you as the sexuality of a person you aren't in a relationship with, I am going speak up.

The same as you will do, one of these days when you make some derogatory statement about being gay, and you see how it affects someone whom has the timiing was about the worst it could ever be, for whatever reason, and you can actually see how one fucked up joke or utterance of the word faggot or similar hateful slur just takes the last bit of everything they had left in them at the end of a horrible day.

And hopefully you will understand how fucked up it is without having to experience it.

hopefully you won't ever have to know what it's like to constantly hear demeaning slurs and ridicule about who you are esp when it isn't hurting anybody

I hope you never have to experience the hell that many LGBT people have been put through and never get even a moments relief from the constant verbal, emotional, spiritual, and often physical abuse that society has not only condoned for way to long, but also that despicable bigotry still being sponsored by the supposed leading Country of free fucking world

One day you will release the pain caused by a society that treats a person as less than, and the constant shit they are afflicted with is successful and fooling them into believing there is something wrong with them for simply being who they are,

and you realize that it's not them who is wrong or bad, is US, and every person who ever uttered a racial slur, gender slur, or some derogatory word about something as private, sacred, and non of our business like a person's sexual orientation

You will realize how how much damage is afflicted on these innocent people, for no other reason then some idiot confuses hatred for love, two things that nobody should ever be so stupid to ever get mixed up, but the firm grip of denial and our hatred for the horrible people we collectively are, and after a couple of good solid days of crying for the people that your careless words or ignorant jokes hurt someone you cared about or ever just some random person

You will vow to never hear another faggot joke, without speaking up, you won't see any humor at all in any of your ignorant ways, and you will know how wrong you were.

Misery loves company, and the only asshole people don't care about when their words, actions, or inactions when someone else says ignorant things.

You have to be experiencing some pretty damn painful inner turmoil to say the things you said about people you have no right to.

I am sorry for whatever hell you are going through, but I can't witness you spread that pain to innocent people because you don't recognize your actions the way I do

I fully understand that you don't get why what you said is not OK, if you are going to violent or mad, do so towards me, I am the one who said you secretly want to suck dick, don't take it out on innocent people who are already dealing with too much shit in their life.

please think about the hateful things you say
More...
Posted by Dirtclustit on May 28, 2014 at 10:32 AM · Report this
36
Agreeing with Dirtclustit again:
"What you said about beating him up, was a seriously fucked up thing to say"
Posted by EricaP on May 28, 2014 at 10:41 AM · Report this
37 Comment Pulled (Trolling) Comment Policy
38
Two people noticed "I wouldn't question it too much, lest the Lord peg you" but everyone missed "The Lord giveth, ANAL"?
Posted by dan (no relation) on May 28, 2014 at 11:10 AM · Report this
nocutename 39
Thank you Slog webmaster for pulling those awful trolling comments.
Posted by nocutename on May 28, 2014 at 11:22 AM · Report this
40
@35 I have taken issue with your comments in some other threads (and let's not even talk about your use of commas), but I'm writing here to commend you on your response to the anonymous commenter's violent homophobia. I was just going to tell him that I hoped that he made a sexual advance towards a lesbian and got badly beaten for it, to teach him a lesson. Your response was much more humane and mature than mine, without minimizing how awful the commenter's graphic violent anti-gay fantasies are. Well done.
Posted by pemulis on May 28, 2014 at 12:40 PM · Report this
Registered European 41
@9 Trying to argue that the bible is actually not against homosexuality is a losing proposition. Don't go there. What bronze age tribal religions or mystery cults from the Roman empire have to say about your sexuality is irrelevant.
Posted by Registered European on May 28, 2014 at 12:40 PM · Report this
42
Question away ANAL, the glans (what is visible on the outside of the body) is only a small percentage of the clitoris. Most of the clitoris is internal and can be stimulated in different ways via the vagina & anus - and the reason why there is talk of all those spots (the a, g, u and other spots).

Check out http://blog.museumofsex.com/the-internal… and experiment with stimulating your internal clitoris in different ways and you can expand your orgasmic repertoire.
Posted by Puck108 on May 28, 2014 at 1:21 PM · Report this
43
Question away ANAL, the glans (what is visible on the outside of the body) is only a small percentage of the clitoris. Most of the clitoris is internal and can be stimulated in different ways via the vagina & anus - and the reason why there is talk of all those spots (the a, g, u and other spots).

Check out http://blog.museumofsex.com/the-internal… and experiment with stimulating your internal clitoris in different ways and you can expand your orgasmic repertoire.
Posted by Puck108 on May 28, 2014 at 1:24 PM · Report this
44
LOL---Dan the Man!! I LOVED your absolutely perfect response to ANAL!

Griz is going slightly off topic again, here, but AFRAID's description of her hyper-judgmental mother is exactly the same, primary reason I willfully avoid my much older, controlling & manipulative sisters, especially my oldest sib. Holy shit!
Dan and @29 Bugnroolet: Spot on advice to AFRAID!

Posted by auntie grizelda on May 28, 2014 at 1:48 PM · Report this
nocutename 45
So, AFRAID, how did it work out when you told your mom that your sister was pregnant? Did she scream and yell at you? Did she call your sister up and scream and yell at her? If your sister doesn't live near your mom, had your mom calmed down by the next time your sister saw her? More importantly, is your mother's pattern to scream and yell and then that gets it out of her system and she can calm down, or does she stay angry? Does she threaten to withdraw her love, or does she only make a lot of initial noise--smoke with no real fire.

Look, only you and your sister know your mom and her reactions. I'm not going to address the "my sister owes me one so now I want to cash in my chips and make her do this for me" angle. Maybe your family has a dynamic set up that works, and who are we (or Dan) to question it or tell you to do otherwise. Have you asked your sister if she will do this for you?

Posted by nocutename on May 28, 2014 at 1:56 PM · Report this
46
@sissoucat #12 Actually sounds like a fun game.

@vennominon #17 All those elaborate tennis analogies... I suspect Dan wasn't the only one smoking pot.

Posted by opposite on May 28, 2014 at 2:10 PM · Report this
47 Comment Pulled (OffTopic) Comment Policy
Corylea 48
"Don't fear their rejection—make them fear yours."

Wonderful advice, Dan!

I think we need this on a tee shirt. Maybe you should start the SavageLove Shop? :-)
Posted by Corylea http://corylea.com/ on May 28, 2014 at 3:11 PM · Report this
49
@48: Agreed!! What a great idea, Corylea! Dan---seriously!
I want one of these tee-shirts! I swear, I'll PROUDLY wear it to my next family reunion!
Posted by auntie grizelda on May 28, 2014 at 3:17 PM · Report this
50 Comment Pulled (OffTopic) Comment Policy
51
Afraid, wow, that's a tough one. I love Dan's advice there, own that situation yourself, call the shots. Even though she's your Mom, really, she's just another insecure scared human being, underneath all that religious nonsense. Perhaps she's more scared, scared people tend towards religious nutball territory. Just sayin'. I think you have leverage.

Honestly? She probably knows already anyway. Most people's gaydar is good, even when in denial, even when it comes to their own kids. I doubt it will be the big surprise you think it will be.

Good luck!!
Posted by Chandira on May 28, 2014 at 3:26 PM · Report this
52
Me Venn, Borg was a pretty special tennis player/ and Rafa,
Dearly loved here in Australia( a test of endurance for the players, in high summer. Usually in the news alongside bush fires and/ or floods), well
The French may just not know how to take to his expressive person/ his stylized moves .
Posted by LavaGirl on May 28, 2014 at 4:01 PM · Report this
53
Heartfelt, Dirtclustit.. @35. A True Warrior.
Posted by LavaGirl on May 28, 2014 at 7:05 PM · Report this
54
ANAL will always be popular. She'll always have all the dates she wants, and guys will want to marry her.
Posted by francoinsfnm on May 28, 2014 at 7:14 PM · Report this
55
@54 If the guy is even remotely capable in bed, all women have orgasms during anal. It's called a reacharound, really the least you can do.
Posted by gnot on May 28, 2014 at 11:41 PM · Report this
sissoucat 56
@vennominon

I didn't get any of your tennis analogies, since tennis is something that happens on another planet as far as I'm concerned.

However : as for women and orgasms. I may have unknowingly used a gallicism. In French, "not very" + adjective is used to mean "absolutely not" + adjective, as a polite euphemism. I'm so used to such wording, I mostly don't conciously notice when I'm using euphemisms. I don't know if it's the same in English, probably not. So my "not very intense orgasms" meant actually "barely noticeable orgasms".

Though not being a woman, you might know that for (some ? most ?) women, during sex, orgasms happen first as slight bumps on the baseline of sexual pleasure. Those bumps then may grow up (with time and activities with a considerate partner) to become full-blown pleasurable orgasms, or actual orgasms, or they may remain barely noticeable or die out with an inconsiderate partner.

Several barely noticeable orgasms, or none, while in a state of sexual arousal, have exactly the same effect : they provide no relief whatsoever from sexual tension. So sex ending "without orgasms or with barely noticeable ones" is horribly frustrating. Just like sex with no ejaculation, although ejaculation was written on the menu, must be quite frustrating for men.

Women who experiment only barely noticeable orgasms ever (ones producing no release of sexual tension) would be calling themselves anorgasmic. I was like that until meeting my first considerate lover - at 35.
Posted by sissoucat on May 29, 2014 at 1:24 AM · Report this
sissoucat 57
@seandr

True : all the (few) men I met before my husband, and my husband, sucked at sex. Most of the (few) men I've met since my divorce did not. Those who didn't suck at it were 15+ older than me. The ones with whom sex was bleh or sucked were my age or younger.

I wouldn't know if I'm "easy to get off" : oral first and piv second is indeed the way I roll, although 5-10 minutes of it wouldn't be enough for my complete and lasting enjoyment. Of course, there's the rare occurence of a partner who can partake in a second session of sex not too long afterwards, when the first session was too short. I've only met one guy who did. He was 56 and fucking hot, both mind and body.
Posted by sissoucat on May 29, 2014 at 1:57 AM · Report this
58
Ms Sissou - That is unfortunate, but perhaps revealing. The British press is so much a part of Wimbledon that it's probably impossible to escape.

I'll regret having to give up a mental picture of you wearing something well-cut and sipping a glass or two of something while watching a long and leisurely afternoon match in Nice. Either that or the image of all the white and green of an English tournament where they get through four matches in six hours but retain the sense of leisure holds much more appeal than the rather grim atmosphere of US hard courts.
Posted by vennominon on May 29, 2014 at 5:20 AM · Report this
59
Divide in half, and divide in half again?

Anyone who can't handle the concept of "divide by four" shouldn't be having sex or advising about it.
Posted by RealityBites on May 29, 2014 at 6:51 AM · Report this
60
@12- if your idea of romance is literally betting your partner he/she/other won't be able to get you off, you're doing it wrong.
Posted by shrmpnt on May 29, 2014 at 7:20 AM · Report this
61
The poker chip game is brilliant. I bet it works for domestic chores, too.
Posted by jackalope on May 29, 2014 at 9:08 AM · Report this
nocutename 62
@60: I couldn't agree more.

Sissoucat: I don't think I have ever experienced what you're describing as slight bump orgasms. I feel bumps of arousal and excitement, but I would not characterize them as any kind of orgasm.

But I also don't think I could ever approach sex in that way you describe @12. I'm all for everyone getting theirs, and I wouldn't like it if a partner didn't seem to care whatsoever that I wasn't getting off, but if I don't come every single time, I chalk it up to "that's life." I've been with men who can't come easily and who occasionally didn't come, and although I tried my hardest, if they seemed to be okay with it, I took my cue from them. I think the orgasm doesn't always have everything to do with what the other person is doing, but sometimes has a lot to do with what's going on in one's own head or with one's own body (for example, I come much more quickly and easily in the day or even hours before I get my period, and it is more difficult directly after my period is finished).

To have something on the nightstand that reminds me that this is some kind of high-stakes game with winners and losers, or that my ability to come, or his, is riding on it, and one of us will have to pay up if we don't provide something that can be occasionally elusive (and which, moreover, I want to do because I want my partner to come, because I want him to experience pleasure and I want to think or believe that I helped give him that pleasure), would just make me anxious. I want him to want me to get off because he likes me and wants me to feel good and also because he gets aroused by my orgasm, not because if I don't come, he owes me money.
Posted by nocutename on May 29, 2014 at 9:17 AM · Report this
63
To Afraid: Come out, already. It's scary. I can be difficult. But it's worth it in the end.

I started acknowledging my sexuality at 18. I came out to my parents at 28. By waiting, I lost ten years' worth of conversations that I could have been having with them--and that my straight siblings *were* having with them, because so many topics were off limit if I couldn't say the "G-word."

When I finally came out, their reaction was basically, "We've known that for years."

Fortunatley, we then had 25 years of honesty together before they both passed away in 2011.

The day will come. You're making it worse by putting it off. Just tell them, already.
Posted by Clayton on May 29, 2014 at 10:01 AM · Report this
64
@12: Saying that you get to keep the money if you fail to come is literally betting that you won't come. It's not surprising that nobody will take you up on that.
Posted by avast2006 on May 29, 2014 at 10:18 AM · Report this
65
@12

Methinks someone is conflating male orgasm and male ejaculation and that,possibly if someone encouraged their male partners to reflect one the sexual experiences said partners might not be so uncritical about when the orgasmed and when they didn't.
Posted by mjpam on May 29, 2014 at 8:56 PM · Report this
66
"Don't fear their rejection-- Make them fear yours."

The wonderful thing about Dan's advice to AFRAID is that it doesn't only work for queer kids, and it doesn't only work on hyper-conservative parents. It works for everyone everywhere. It works for the straight kid who wants to marry the artist instead of the banker. It works for the student who wants to major in theater instead of computer science. It works for the woman who wants to move out of state instead of living in her father's neighborhood. It works for the man who doesn't want to be his mother's confidant. It works every time parents try to infringe their own irrelevant opinions on developing children. It works in every dysfunctional boundaryless relationship there is. You just walk away, live your good life, and tell your parents you're here to talk if they feel like being pleasant.
Posted by Crinoline on May 30, 2014 at 5:30 AM · Report this
67
Anal,

The desire to be penetrated is often mentioned by women and gays. Your such desire is strongly expressed. Getting it in the ass is for you the greatest penetration. And you sweep over the edge. I think you could come with piv or cunny, but you'd have to have the will to practice.

The brain is the greatest sex organ.
Posted by Hunter78 on May 30, 2014 at 1:00 PM · Report this
Cat in fez 68
@67 Wow, the "will"? Who taught you your sexology, Sigmund Freud? Because that's the last guy I heard claim that the ladies just needed to think their clitoral nerve clusters into a more advantageous position.

P.S. 'Cunny' means vagina. Maybe you mean 'cunnilingus'?
Posted by Cat in fez on May 30, 2014 at 7:34 PM · Report this
69 Comment Pulled (OffTopic) Comment Policy
70
Did I miss something?
It seems like PATDS is interested in ONLY anal, but Dan responded as if he were only interested in oral.
Posted by maggiempls on May 30, 2014 at 11:09 PM · Report this
lolorhone 71
Hey, everybody. To all concerned parties (sissoucat and Ophian specifically) I am alive and well. I left an explanatory post under the Justin Bond article. I've missed you guys- Michael Sam kisses to every single one of you (a tasteful but substantial amount of tongue for you, O!).
Posted by lolorhone on May 31, 2014 at 3:42 AM · Report this
lolorhone 72
Also, this site really needs an individual reply function.
Posted by lolorhone on May 31, 2014 at 4:02 AM · Report this
73
Right @13!!! divide by 2 twice was the only math in there. Shame on @1, and @3. More adept at math? after dividing the number of times they have sex per month, (which sadly for most LTR couples is frighteningly simple math) The rest of the proposed arrangement is 1 for 1. He forfeits a chance to top if he declines to bottom, and she agrees to the same. that's not math, that's even Steven!
Posted by briweb@mac.com on May 31, 2014 at 6:06 AM · Report this
74
@64 Reading comprehension, dear. In the game described, 2 people are betting that they can get their partner off. Presumably both would like an orgasm rather than a dollar. I'm surprised she can't find a man who will lay there and let her get off without going soft or taking over the action. Perhaps she needs something extra than the freedom to move how she likes?

How the heck do women not orgasm? Do the men refuse to start again after coming? Or do the women not know how to use their hand to help? Why would you continue to have sex with that kind of guy, or not get a vibe if your hand doesn't work?

My variation of this game is "s/he who comes first, loses." It feels nice to lose! But the winner has the better time.

The bottom line: I totally agree that sex is about mutual pleasure or getting each other off (barring physical issues). I know there are fragile men who can only keep hard when they stimulate their dick perfectly.. like in most porn. And they should stick to porn if they like that standard. Real sex involves both give and take.
Posted by Philophile on May 31, 2014 at 6:45 AM · Report this
75
12: just because a guy ejaculates doesn't mean he enjoyed himself.

Frankly, the idea that the man is primarily responsible for her orgasm is pretty damn Ann Landers. I am surprised to see someone through it out here.
Posted by Snowguy on May 31, 2014 at 7:11 AM · Report this
76
*throw (facepalm)
Posted by Snowguy on May 31, 2014 at 7:12 AM · Report this
nocutename 77
Hey lolorhone! Good to see you here and glad to hear you're okay. You were missed.

Yes, it would be nice to have an individual reply function, but people can always exchange personal emails to continue conversations that either don't belong here, would bore the rest of us to death, or are otherwise best suited to private dialogue. I've done that a number of times.
Posted by nocutename on May 31, 2014 at 8:05 AM · Report this
78
@74: "Reading comprehension, dear. In the game described, 2 people are betting that they can get their partner off.

If I am betting that I can get you off, and you take that bet, you are betting that I can't.

As to the quantity designated by a "bill," Urban Dictionary mentions $1 once, $100 several times, $1000 once. I was assuming it was $100. Your assumption that someone wants an orgasm more than they want a hundred dollars is not nearly the foregone conclusion it is when it's a dollar. There are easily days where I might well want the $100, in which case I can guarantee that no orgasm will be forthcoming. Therefore it's a sucker bet.

If it were $1, that's such a who-gives-a-shit bet that it wouldn't provide any incentive to try any harder than I would out of ordinary consideration for your good time. In that quantity it functions more as a way to rub my nose in the fact that I failed to satisfy you. Yeah, that's real sexy.

There are a number of other ways that wager is a sucker bet. 1) The woman can always claim her orgasm was mediocre, while for the man if he ejaculates at all it counts. 2) If the woman actually needs to play this game it's a sign that she has a hard time getting off, in which case, where's the handicapping in the odds, to reflect that he's going to have to work way harder at it than she is? Let's face it, if women on average came as easily as men do, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

In any case, I don't want someone laboring away determinedly at me because they are damned if they are going to lose a bet.
Posted by avast2006 on May 31, 2014 at 9:05 AM · Report this
79
Mr Avast - It would be in French currency (or is it all Euros now? that would be rather depressing), remember, as it was Ms Sissou who devised it. I'll go with a mille note myself, assuming they still exist, for the connection to Death on the Nile.
Posted by vennominon on May 31, 2014 at 11:31 AM · Report this
JenRN 80
@33 Sounds like you have a considerate, sensible approach to pleasing your partner. Need to find a guy with your attitude in Chicago...
Posted by JenRN http://https://www.facebook.com/jennifer.pickering3 on May 31, 2014 at 1:53 PM · Report this
Sandiai 81
@70, huh?

I guess I'm really turned on by the size, and curious about maybe trying oral? That's all I'm curious about trying, nothing else.



Dan's reply:

put your very limited interests (oral only) and even more limited experience (none whatsoever) on the table and let the dude decide if he's in (your mouth).

Posted by Sandiai on May 31, 2014 at 3:06 PM · Report this
82
@71 & @72: lolorhone!!! So glad you're back! We missed you!
Griz sure did! I'm glad to learn that you're doing well.
All the best,
griz
Posted by auntie grizelda on May 31, 2014 at 5:21 PM · Report this
lolorhone 83
nocutename @77 and Aunt Griz @82: Aw shucks...
Posted by lolorhone on May 31, 2014 at 7:01 PM · Report this
84
@78 "If I am betting that I can get you off, and you take that bet, you are betting that I can't."

You can look at this bet and sex as a competition sport, or a team sport. If you're on different teams, of course you're betting against each other. If you are putting down money that you'll score well with other teammates, splitting the pool is a celebration of accomplishment. Poker chips or dollar bills would be appropriate, not large bills or real competition, because competition sex by definition has a loser.

"In that quantity it functions more as a way to rub my nose in the fact that I failed to satisfy you. Yeah, that's real sexy."

Isn't that the point? If you're done and she's not and you're willing to pass over the $2 instead of ask what she needs to get off, both will feel the un-sexiness. Sissou complained about the lack of equal time and effort (giving and gameness) so I assume that she can communicate her needs and is not using the bet to avoid talking about her problems coming or for extra income etc, but to filter good teammates from the competition players. I addressed physical issues last post, but yes I agree that any bet can be a sucker bet if you're playing with a cheater or asshole.

"Let's face it, if women on average came as easily as men do, we wouldn't even be having this conversation."

My experience jacking and jilling with a partner is the opposite; I've always gone off faster and usually need less recuperation time. It is in contrast almost impossible to get off during piv sex when the guy doesn't have nice moves or is at least passive while I do what I need to do. Thus the bet.

"In any case, I don't want someone laboring away determinedly at me because they are damned if they are going to lose a bet."

I would assume my partner considered the sex more important than the $1/poker chips/token reward, so I don't see your point.
More...
Posted by Philophile on June 1, 2014 at 6:47 AM · Report this
85
Cat [68],

So you think "will" cannot bring Anal to a non-anal orgasm? Now that you've made me think about it, yes, maybe under duress she could be made to come, but I have no direct knowledge there and find that unethical.

Or do you think non-anal orgasm is forever denied her? Based on what?

However, if she's satisfied with anal-only, her chance of achieving non-anal orgasm is limited.

Her question was "What's up"-- I offered an answer, you didn't.

I like cunny because it sounds like honey.
Posted by Hunter78 on June 1, 2014 at 7:21 AM · Report this
86
Dear Mr vennominon,
the French use Euros (but display the price in Euros and Francs).
Posted by migrationist on June 1, 2014 at 7:38 AM · Report this
87
Ms Migrationist - Many thanks for the information. I rather thought it would be so. This does not quite equate to my depression over the loss of shillings, as there was greater charm in a non-decimal system of currency. Old money is one source of nostalgia for me.
Posted by vennominon on June 1, 2014 at 9:28 AM · Report this
88
I'm not such a fan of the poker chip game for LW4. It respects consent and is fair. But a more useful standard for me with recreational sex is mutual desire. There is a difference between agreeing to participate, enjoying participating, and strong desire to participate. So my response would be to challenge them to inspire similar desires in their partner. For example, the woman who wants to control the action more can sprinkle in some of his favorite things while topping. Eventually he'll be salivating to bottom like Pavlov's dogs... unless he has some hang up/strong negative association with bottoming.

Also her first question was is it ok to set limits with kinks. It's part of being an adult to create the boundaries/limits/rules that work best for your preferences, and to learn to respect the boundaries/preferences of others.
Posted by Philophile on June 1, 2014 at 12:30 PM · Report this
Ophian 89
lolo @71, tastily tasteful, thank you. So happy to hear you are doing well. *smooch*
Posted by Ophian on June 1, 2014 at 6:04 PM · Report this
90
Ven,

I was quite surprised you didn't know the Euro was current in France. But I guess I follow European politics much more than most people.
Posted by Hunter78 on June 1, 2014 at 6:23 PM · Report this
91
Mr Hunter - I couldn't say how deeply they'd taken (or not) in individual countries. It feels like a loss to have all those individual currencies homogenized.
Posted by vennominon on June 2, 2014 at 4:44 AM · Report this
Cat in fez 92
Cat [68],

Or do you think non-anal orgasm is forever denied her? Based on what?

However, if she's satisfied with anal-only, her chance of achieving non-anal orgasm is limited.


I didn't say that and I don't mean it: from the phrasing in the letter it seems pretty clear she can orgasm with her clitoris and presumably with her clitoris AND other stimulation. It is only with anal sex that she can forego the clit stimulation.

I was objecting to your out-of-the-blue asserting that she could change the physical facts of her body by "will". It's possible a different geometry, partner, toy, position, or yes, really sexy scenario could change how anyone gets off, but coming up with a whole weird theory about her psychology of penetration -- and for bonus points generalizing it? -- based on her physical experience was pretty irritating. Especially given the world we live in, where women have, you know, been told to change their sexual wiring by willpower for decades if not centuries (hey, and with the weird overstated generalizations, too -- are you sure your name isn't Sigmund?)

If you meant the practice more than the will part, that's cool. But again, practice isn't going to change it if her body isn't wired for it.

Her question was "What's up"-- I offered an answer, you didn't.


I tend to assume we're talking to each other here at the Slog, not to the letter writer exclusively. But you're right, I didn't! The usual explanation for this kind of thing is: sometimes, for some women, the best way to stimulate their G-spots is through their anuses. Apparently she can get off with her G-spot independently from her clitoris. Maybe she could find a different path to stimulate hers, maybe not.

I like cunny because it sounds like honey.


It's a great word.
More...
Posted by Cat in fez on June 2, 2014 at 10:30 AM · Report this
93
Cat,

You seem to be offering a lot of facts not in evidence. So I understand you correctly-- there is no desire to be penetrated? Not among other women?
Posted by Hunter78 on June 2, 2014 at 5:45 PM · Report this
Allen Gilliam 94
Psychology is obviously a big part of why people like one thing or another sexually. Those who deny it are motivated more by social politics than by facts.

And nobody's claiming that psychological blocks can be overcome by "will." It takes sustained effort over a long period of time informed by a deep understanding of psychology.
Posted by Allen Gilliam http://softlyspokenmagicspells.com on June 3, 2014 at 4:07 AM · Report this
sissoucat 95
@vennominon

Most of the EC uses the euro, including all of the founding states, of which I'm sure France, Germany, Italy are - less sure about the UK. Which we continentals think about as the US poodle, which only came into the EC to make sure it'd fail.

It's not a shame that we lost all the local currencies. I distinctly remember having to pay the banks to get some money to spend in neigbouring countries. They would never exchange the coins back when I came home. And I now can know how much I'd make 1000 km from my home. Quaint outdated folkways are only nice to look at once they've been put in museums where they belong, when they're still in use they're just annoying as hell. Can you imagine every state in the US having its own currency ?

Of course there are passeists who regret the Franc. Let that small minority of very senior citizen regret it till they die out. And stop voting for the fascists.
Posted by sissoucat on June 5, 2014 at 6:39 AM · Report this
robt vesco, jr. 96
If you want your mom to respect your beliefs, try telling her you respect her feelings, if not her beliefs. Why would you throw her into a situation that would be highly uncomfortable and mate traumatic.

Write her a letter and tell her you're a lesbian with a partner, and let her know if she comes and hangs out with you two, she might be very uncomfortable/angry/upset, and you don't want a family visit like that. If she doesn't want to come, that's up to her.

Letting her show up without telling her what she's in for only works on I Love Lucy or in the movies.

Of course she's a bigot. She's a bigot whether or not you judge her, so don't, and if she doesn't come around, at least you took the high road.

Posted by robt vesco, jr. on June 7, 2014 at 3:43 PM · Report this
97
OMG all he needs to do is troll the gym at 4am for a couple of weeks and he should run into the guy again.
Posted by elgrandissimo on June 9, 2014 at 12:12 PM · Report this
98
OMG PATDS needs to troll the gym at 4am for another month until he runs into Godzilla dick again. Problem solved.
Posted by elgrandissimo on June 9, 2014 at 12:20 PM · Report this
99
@41: actually....
look here; http://religioustolerance.org/homosexu.h…

In particular, look here: http://religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.h…

In case the links aren't working properly, one example: the bits in Leviticus could be interpreted as "Condemns all same-sex sexual behavior." or "Condemns gay ritual sex in a Pagan temple and/or males having sex in a woman's bed."
Posted by Melissa Trible on June 10, 2014 at 3:47 PM · Report this
Registered European 100
@99, thanks for the links. I've seen similar arguments before and I don't think they are very convincing.
Posted by Registered European on June 11, 2014 at 1:03 PM · Report this
101
@seandr don't be so sure -- I'm a woman and I'd get on the poker chip train!
Posted by TangerineDream on June 23, 2014 at 5:21 PM · Report this

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