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No Homo
October 1, 2009
Tools
About a month ago, I got drunk and slept with my friend's girlfriend. (He's not my best friend, more of a second-tier friend.) We both swore never to tell anyone and left it at that. Only problem is, we've been hanging out a lot lately and sending private messages to each other multiple times a day, but nothing physical. It's progressed to the point that our mutual friends are starting to notice that there's something going on between the lady and me. And, frankly, if someone I was dating were doing what she is doing, I'd consider it cheating.
Things came to a head a few nights ago when we ended up skinny-dipping and then showering together. We are obviously infatuated. We had a long talk about what to do: We are really into each other, but there are issues. For starters, she would have to break up with her boyfriend, something she would do in theory, but there are housing issues (she lives with him) and friendship issues (her best friend is his best friend's lady). Furthermore, I'm scared not only of getting beat to hell by her man, but of getting shunned by all of my friends for stealing another man's girl.
Everything is interconnected in the most fucked-up ways possible. I'm wondering if there is any way out of this with the desired result for everyone: the lady and I together, friends understanding of the situation, and her boyfriend not totally destroyed. I still like her boyfriend as a friend and a guy, and I don't want to crush him with a pre-winter breakup (it gets real lonely here in the winter).
Fucked In Madison
As "the lady" is not a wallet, a car, or a crusty old come sock, FIM, you can't "steal her" from a second-tier friend or anyone else. She is a free and autonomous individual; her affections are hers to award and hers to rescind. And as it's the lady who would be doing the dumping here, FIM, you wouldn't be crushing your second-tier friend with a pre-winter breakup, she would.
Let's not overestimate your importance in the little lady's drama, FIM. I'm sure you're a lovely person, you're a great fuck, that you look good in the shower, etc., but you are only evidence that her relationship isn't long for this world, FIM, you are not the reason it isn't. This breakup was in the cards before you and that fateful drunken night. Your appearance on the scene may have given her an incentive to end a relationship that needed to end—and end sooner rather than later—but the relationship was doomed before you drunkenly banged the (shitfaced) lady.
In other words: You're just a symptom, FIM, don't flatter yourself by imagining you're the disease.
That said, FIM, her friends and future ex-boyfriend may very well blame you when the breakup comes. The only way to avoid looking bad/culpable/responsible in their eyes—and get the girl without the beating—is to inform the lady that you're into her and want to be with her, but that you can't see her until she's free and clear. No more hanging out, no more texting, no more skinny-dipping, no more showering together until she's officially single and available.
Two of my closest friends, a straight couple, recently got engaged. As an engagement present, my female friend would like to include me in their sex life, potentially for just one evening or perhaps for longer. She and I have had a few make-out sessions while her fiancé watched, and I am somewhat turned on by the idea of taking our escapades further. But there's a catch: I'm currently seeing someone who says he doesn't consider hypothetical situations like this to be "cheating" but would probably be uncomfortable if I actually did this for my friends. Should I tell my friends I can't go any further out of respect for his feelings, or tell him that the situation is no longer hypothetical and risk making him uncomfortable, or help my friends out on the condition that it only happens once and not tell him at all?
Toying With A Third
Well aren't you the selfless little people-pleaser, TWAT. You're willing to sleep with this couple—maybe once, maybe weekly—even though you're only "somewhat turned on by the idea." But if you "did this for [your] friends"—if you condescended to help them out—what do you tell the man you're currently seeing? You could tell him the truth, of course, which would be the right thing, the responsible thing, the ethical thing—but that might make him uncomfortable, poor dear. So you hesitate. Oh, not out of selfish desire to avoid an awkward conversation, of course, just out of an overabundance of concern for his feelings.
Sorry, TWAT, since your boyfriend has already given you his hypothetical okay to get with your friends, there's no way to justify making an engagement present of yourself without informing him in advance. And let's be honest, shall we? Your reluctance to inform the boyfriend isn't about a selfless desire to spare his feelings, but your cowardly desire to avoid an awkward conversation and—if he balks at this hypothetical becoming a reality—a potentially relationship-ending conversation.
But before you can be honest with the boyfriend, TWAT, you're going to need to be honest with yourself. Repeat after me: "Honey, remember that couple, my insanely hot friends? They've asked me to have a three-way with them and I want to so bad my ovaries are throbbing—that cool with you?"
I'm a GGG 30-year-old straight male who was quite pleased with your response a while back to a woman who asked if her husband was gay since he enjoyed some stereotypically gay things. You told her that enjoying "gay" things doesn't make a person gay. If a guy likes to get fucked in the ass by a dude, then he might be gay, you said. I've never been attracted to men, but I have always been ridiculed by friends and girlfriends for liking "gay" things, so much so that I began to wonder if I might be gay. Reading your advice was just the confidence boost I needed.
But then I let a girlfriend "experiment" on my ass. What started out as a kink with her finger has turned into a full-blown fetish with her dildo (non-penis-shaped). I wondered if this might be a sign, so I tried masturbating to some gay porn. Not for me. I still don't have any desire to be with a man sexually, Dan, but I LOVE having my ass pounded. Does that tip the scales toward homo?
Doing Rear Entry Weekly
No homo, DREW.
Once again: If a man and a woman are doing it—whatever it is—it's a heterosexual sex act. It doesn't matter who's on top, who's wearing the lingerie, who's being penetrated, or whether the dildo is penis-shaped or Glenn Beck–shaped. If a girl is doing it with/to a boy, it's heterosexual sex. Gay people can have heterosexual sex, of course, and most gay people have straight sex before coming out. (Gay guys have straight sex in high school like straight guys have gay sex in prison: under duress.) But the relevant question, DREW, isn't "How gay is this ass-fucking experiment?" but "What's going through my mind during this ass-fucking experiment?"
When I fucked girls, I secretly
wished/
pretended they were boys. So worry about what's going on in
your head, DREW, and not what's going on in your ass. 
1
Great advice to FIM, Dan. She is certainly cheating on her current boyfriend, even if it went purely emotional for awhile. The best way not to be blamed by your friends, FIM -- and some of them will still blame you -- is to do as Dan said and avoid contact with her until she is legit-single. Realistically, also, many guys who are cheated on will blame the guy to the exclusion of their cheating partner. I speak from experience.
And -- first?
And -- first?
2
"Your reluctance to inform the boyfriend isn't about a selfless desire to spare his feelings, but your cowardly desire to avoid an awkward conversation "
That's a bit of advice everyone should take. Thanks again Dan!
That's a bit of advice everyone should take. Thanks again Dan!
3
love it... Dan you are so great. This week not too kinky, but "sometimes vanilla is a wonderful flavor too" - quote from Paul Williams (very short composer/singer song writer) who said this about the Carpentars (you know Karen and Richard). Thanks so much for answering the vanilla ones once in a while for us folks who indulge in kink, but also think vanilla can be a wonderful flavor too. xoxo
8
A couple of observations for FIM. First while she's obviously female she ain't no lady, a much abused term which infers certain qualities, precludes certain behaviors, and requires people be treated in a civilized and respectful manner. Second you both lack integrity. You admit this with your statement where you characterize her behavior as cheating and by inference that you would not like or approve of it if you were in your "friend's" shoes. With friends like you, who needs enemies. Third, if she's willing to do this to your "friend", what makes you think she won't do this to you when the bloom is off the rose of your relationship. How many times has she done this before? How many broken hearts has she left in her wake? Fourth, I know this is a cliche, but what goes around does come around and bad karma is a real bitch. Fifth, if the ethics you display is the norm for your group of friends then you can expect to be on the receiving end as some point in time. Six, if the ethics you display is not the norm for your group then you should be ostracized because you have demonstrated that you can't be trusted, which is something that your male friends will realize once they find out what you are doing. Even your best friends won't be sure that you won't do the same thing to them. Never mess around with your friends current girlfriends or wives. A good way to wind up dead.
9
Gay guys have straight sex in high school like straight guys have gay sex in prison: under duress.
I am trying hard, and thus far failing, to read this in a way that does not equate gay guys' experience in high school with rape.
I am trying hard, and thus far failing, to read this in a way that does not equate gay guys' experience in high school with rape.
10
@9: Dan might have been referring to straight guys who have gay sex in prison because it's the only sex available, not because they're forced.
Not sure if that's what he meant, but it's one way to read that line without equating gay guys' straight high-school sex with rape.
Not sure if that's what he meant, but it's one way to read that line without equating gay guys' straight high-school sex with rape.
11
@8 I am dialing the police department as I post this, or maybe the local crazy house. Scary dude, effing scary.
Dan, good advice. Thank you for the snark and the awesomely feminist response to the first letter. I think Feministing has it totally wrong about you (though on average only one or two of the posters have a problem with you, so its not every person on that site).
Dan, good advice. Thank you for the snark and the awesomely feminist response to the first letter. I think Feministing has it totally wrong about you (though on average only one or two of the posters have a problem with you, so its not every person on that site).
12
I don't know which is worse for males. The pain of being lied to, deceived, and betrayed by one's lover and a friend or being publicly humiliated by them. How much time has to pass after the break-up before FIM can pursue the soon to be ex-girlfriend without it being obvious that something was going on. The group's reaction will also tell FIM who is more important to group, FIM, the friend, or the girlfriend. FIM and the girlfriend are jeopardizing the group, which may tear itself apart over this situation. Such a small price to pay for happiness.
13
@11 You've obviously never been on the receiving end or witnessed the chaos and fallout from this tragedy. I may be in error, but I assumed FIM is from Madison Wisconsin and the police couldn't prevent innocent people from being killed when the ex-boyfriends went psycho. For your information and thank's to liberal politicians and social activists, we live in an enlightened age in which people in desperate need of mental health help can't be forced to receive help unless it can be demonstrated that they are a threat to themselves or others. Just being homeless, an addict, or mentally ill is not sufficient. By the time it is obvious that a person is a danger, someone has usually gotten hurt or has died. Mental illness is not something to joke about or demean.
14
FIM, unless you are sure she of "it" quality, you fucked up big time, it's always bros before hoes - you're gonna pay for this....
16
Okay, beentheredonethatgotthetshirt, this whole "You're all bad people and you're ruining everyone's lives and someone might die over it" thread you're spinning is a little extreme. Please back off, take a breather, and ask yourself why you're taking this so personally.
These people are not causing the apocalypse-- they're risking pissing off some of the people they associate with. It's going to suck for a few people for a while, but if this worst-case scenario you're imagining is so likely then a city would burn every month because someone cheated on someone else.
These people are not causing the apocalypse-- they're risking pissing off some of the people they associate with. It's going to suck for a few people for a while, but if this worst-case scenario you're imagining is so likely then a city would burn every month because someone cheated on someone else.
17
@15 Don't be so judgmental unless it has happened to you. Only the death of a child or spouse exceeds the level of emotional pain that ensues from this type of mess. No one walks away clean. Dan is right that the relationship was doomed before FIM came along, it may well have been doomed before it started. We really don't know what her track record is. Dan is wrong when he says she is free and autonomous. Living together infers a certain degree of commitment and exclusivity. We don't know how long they've been living together and FIM said she lives with him, which could also mean that she is being supported by him to some degree. Until she moves out she really isn't free to pursue other interests/relationships. I expect she is still screwing, pun intended, her roomate even though she's really into FIM, which doesn't seem to bother FIM.
18
@16 I take this so personally because it has happened to me and I've seen it happen to others. The results were never pretty. While I never turned violent, some results were truly tragic. Real lifes were destroyed.
19
I was in FIM's exact shoes 15 years ago, right down to the showering together. I insisted that she sever her ties with her boyfriend before things escalated and before her boyfriend found out on his own. I assumed that she told him immediately, and then waited what I thought was an acceptable amount of time before I approached my friend and let him know that I was going to pursue his ex. Things did not go well after that, he accused me of stealing her away, got very hostile towards both of us, and our friends were forced to choose sides. Things are still strained between some of my friends to this day because of this, and her ex and I haven't spoken in many years. I hope FIM is prepared for the worst, especially since his friends already suspect something is up.
20
Regards the comment "(Gay guys have straight sex in high school like straight guys have gay sex in prison: under duress.)" refers to the homophobic terrorism that is so much of today's teen culture. The actions of mostly straight HS boys and the closeted 'mos who go along with them in terrorizing the latter is aking the the violence culture of prison. Just a personal opinion tho...
21
And for Drew.... wife and I were in a three way when the idea of her and me sucking off the guy who had just pounded her cunt to a massive orgasm came up. He asked, she asked so what was I to do. I sucked him with her help/participation/glee. While it was fun and we made him come together, I have yet to find myself at gay bars, looking at gay porn on the net or cruzing from some bone smoking action on my own. But if wifey wants another three way with another guy and she gets that fucking hot, hell I'd even take it up the ass for her. Because I'd be thinking of how HOT SHE IS GETTING from it all and how much hot action we will have in our bed alone reliving the action and not because of him.
No Mo here too
No Mo here too
22
So, there are still people out there who refer to woman as "my lady" or "my friend's lady."
Eeesh.
If FIM and her wind up pursuing a relationship, will he be her "gentleman?"
Eeesh.
If FIM and her wind up pursuing a relationship, will he be her "gentleman?"
23
@21, I dont know dude. You might not get off on "gay" stuff, but i think that having a penis in your mouth almost certanly makes you gay.
If you were telling us that your wife wanted to do some snowballing with your own cum then thats a little different, but you had another dudes cock in your mouth.
Sure you were thinking about the you wife, but its ANOTHER DUDES COCK. If anyone is offended by what i siad, sorry, but I dont see anyway around the "gay" issue if he had another man ding in his sling.
If you were telling us that your wife wanted to do some snowballing with your own cum then thats a little different, but you had another dudes cock in your mouth.
Sure you were thinking about the you wife, but its ANOTHER DUDES COCK. If anyone is offended by what i siad, sorry, but I dont see anyway around the "gay" issue if he had another man ding in his sling.
24
I will own up to the fact that I performed a homosexual act. But I am not gay. It is not my gender or preference. Do you want to call Dan Savage bi or het for balling a chick in high school? By his descriptions, he is a as much of a faggot as I am a straight guy: almost completely but with some exploration of the other side for reasons not having to do with direct desire.
If our guy friend calls me and says, "hey lets grab a hotel room and suck each other off", I say "no way". If my wife says, hel, lets grab a hotel room and you and he suck each other off and shes masturbating with her favorite vibe while shes saying it, being the GGG guy that I am, I will get on the fucking net and make the hotel reservations!!! Do you see the difference?
I guess intolerance and judgmental tendencies impairs your ability to see fine distinctions. I am not offended by your comments, it just goes to show how small minded you are and I am sure you can;t help yourself..... oh wait, its just an opinion and you could change it. SO I guess you;re just part of the homophobic army I spoke of int he immediately preceding post.
If our guy friend calls me and says, "hey lets grab a hotel room and suck each other off", I say "no way". If my wife says, hel, lets grab a hotel room and you and he suck each other off and shes masturbating with her favorite vibe while shes saying it, being the GGG guy that I am, I will get on the fucking net and make the hotel reservations!!! Do you see the difference?
I guess intolerance and judgmental tendencies impairs your ability to see fine distinctions. I am not offended by your comments, it just goes to show how small minded you are and I am sure you can;t help yourself..... oh wait, its just an opinion and you could change it. SO I guess you;re just part of the homophobic army I spoke of int he immediately preceding post.
25
@21, 23, 24...
People don't have to be 100% homosexual or 100% heterosexual.
Some people are ok with a little messing around and others are completely repulsed by it. Being gay or straight is defined by desire, not behavior.
People don't have to be 100% homosexual or 100% heterosexual.
Some people are ok with a little messing around and others are completely repulsed by it. Being gay or straight is defined by desire, not behavior.
27
Ah F... being unregistered gave me problems with the link: http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/15…
29
This is for FIM. Your friend's "lady" is no lady. Break it off before the situation gets really messy.
31
Wine-o, what a great story! Sounds like you had a hot time and you totally earned it.
It was nice to hear of a guy doing the "bi for my girlfriend" sort of thing - girls do it plenty for their boyfriends/husbands (like, say, TWAT and her friend above??) without everyone going "now you're gay!", it seems like we should extend the same leeway to guys. (Never mind the fact that it really shouldn't matter to anyone else what gender you go for unless they want to be on that list themselves...)
It was nice to hear of a guy doing the "bi for my girlfriend" sort of thing - girls do it plenty for their boyfriends/husbands (like, say, TWAT and her friend above??) without everyone going "now you're gay!", it seems like we should extend the same leeway to guys. (Never mind the fact that it really shouldn't matter to anyone else what gender you go for unless they want to be on that list themselves...)
32
@ beentheredonethatgotthetshirt
Actually the "enlightened age" and demeaning of mental illness was a result of the actions of conservative politicians, not liberal ones, in an effort to reduce the scope of governmental power. Well, yep, the government and the family lost those powers, but it's a far cry to say it was the fault of anybody but specific politicians.
I feel really terrible for you, though, that any dramatic confrontation like this means it's going to be a situation where someone is murdered. I don't say that to condescend, I say that because I don't know what happened and can't pretend to, but I am really sorry that it's an automatic response because it shouldn't be for anyone.
Actually the "enlightened age" and demeaning of mental illness was a result of the actions of conservative politicians, not liberal ones, in an effort to reduce the scope of governmental power. Well, yep, the government and the family lost those powers, but it's a far cry to say it was the fault of anybody but specific politicians.
I feel really terrible for you, though, that any dramatic confrontation like this means it's going to be a situation where someone is murdered. I don't say that to condescend, I say that because I don't know what happened and can't pretend to, but I am really sorry that it's an automatic response because it shouldn't be for anyone.
33
As for drew (and wine-o) and the 'controversy' about being gay if you fellate - even once - I have to say that my girlfriend has the best perspective on all of this, one that I agree with; she prevailed on me to take a dildo in my ass about 7 years ago.
The progression since then, from larger dildos, to strap-ons, fisting, involving her girlfriend, videos, pictures, tranvestitism, drag queen, etc. (she has a series of photo albums of me mapping my 'progress') has delighted her. She finds her life extremely exciting.
Then she asked the magic question: "Are you ready to suck some cock?" My answer was no, as men have never aroused any sexual interest in me at all. I told her that I did not find the male form interesting or exciting.
No homophobia mind you, just no interest. Her reply was that was precisely what she found so exciting (she said she knew I wasn't a 'natural" transvestite, etc.) and she asked me to consider doing it for her, as I had done everything else.
It is her opinion that I am naturally submissive to women and that she was lucky enough to find me. I am considering her request (she never forced me to do anything, just 'persuaded' me) and may agree to it - but I do not consider myself gay. Of course, I am my own dictionary and therefore write the definitions myself, as everyone should.
She has made it clear that I will be performing a lot of fellatio; only safe sex, of course, but she also made it clear that the end of her demands - or is it requests - is not in sight.
I think I know what that means.
The progression since then, from larger dildos, to strap-ons, fisting, involving her girlfriend, videos, pictures, tranvestitism, drag queen, etc. (she has a series of photo albums of me mapping my 'progress') has delighted her. She finds her life extremely exciting.
Then she asked the magic question: "Are you ready to suck some cock?" My answer was no, as men have never aroused any sexual interest in me at all. I told her that I did not find the male form interesting or exciting.
No homophobia mind you, just no interest. Her reply was that was precisely what she found so exciting (she said she knew I wasn't a 'natural" transvestite, etc.) and she asked me to consider doing it for her, as I had done everything else.
It is her opinion that I am naturally submissive to women and that she was lucky enough to find me. I am considering her request (she never forced me to do anything, just 'persuaded' me) and may agree to it - but I do not consider myself gay. Of course, I am my own dictionary and therefore write the definitions myself, as everyone should.
She has made it clear that I will be performing a lot of fellatio; only safe sex, of course, but she also made it clear that the end of her demands - or is it requests - is not in sight.
I think I know what that means.
34
Eesh, all the people who get fucked up over who is "gay" or not. Look, I'm in my fifties, I've had sex 17,000 times in my life, 15,000 with women, 2,000 with men. What does that make me?
A horny motherfucker.
I'll cop to that. Anything else is horseshit.
A horny motherfucker.
I'll cop to that. Anything else is horseshit.
35
RT 30
I'm one lucky guy. Siince that safe sex bj my wife has been willingly swallowing and also snowballing me to no end. While I miss the facials and boob shots....
And when, a few weeks ago, she and I got thru with a lady of our acquaintance, where my wife fondled, kissed, felt up the boobs of, watched her masturbate and squirt, got fondled by and had her ass fingered by said lady while I ate my wife, wife said "well I guess that proves it. I'm no lesbian!"
I asked her if she had enjoyed it and would do it again and she said "yeah.... only this time I might let her use her strap on on me." We are trying to get he courage to go to a on premise swing club next. BTW wife and I are in or 50's.
If it sounds like I am boasting, FUCK YEAH!!!
Oh, and let me say that all this began when she read a letter in your column, Dan, about GGG. I owe you dude!
I'm one lucky guy. Siince that safe sex bj my wife has been willingly swallowing and also snowballing me to no end. While I miss the facials and boob shots....
And when, a few weeks ago, she and I got thru with a lady of our acquaintance, where my wife fondled, kissed, felt up the boobs of, watched her masturbate and squirt, got fondled by and had her ass fingered by said lady while I ate my wife, wife said "well I guess that proves it. I'm no lesbian!"
I asked her if she had enjoyed it and would do it again and she said "yeah.... only this time I might let her use her strap on on me." We are trying to get he courage to go to a on premise swing club next. BTW wife and I are in or 50's.
If it sounds like I am boasting, FUCK YEAH!!!
Oh, and let me say that all this began when she read a letter in your column, Dan, about GGG. I owe you dude!
36
Agreed. FIM should say "bye bye" to his "friend's" girlfriend before he lets her move in with him because this infatuation / lust will pass and he will be the one left holding the bag and supporting her while she finds someone else to mooch off of.
37
I don't think enough attention has been paid to the possibility that FIM's lady friend does not want to break it off with her boyfriend. She might want to stay with her boyfriend and boink FIM on the side. She might not want a relationship with FIM at all.
38
Wine-o, clearly you're not gay. Just not repulsed by penises, as homophobes claim to be (makes you wonder how they handle taking a leak). Let me ask the lot of you men... if you could suck your own cock, would you? Would that make you gay? (As George Carlin once said, "If I could do that, I'd never leave the house!")
Hats off to Wine-o...an open-minded husband and a willing experimenter. Giving something the old college try a few times does not define you. But for those of you who have determined wine-o is gay regardless of his own definition of himself, would the same apply if to a wife going down on another woman because it turns her husband on? If so, there are an awful lot of married lesbians!
Oh... off topic, but only slightly... can anyone tell me what the name of this sex act is? A 69 between two people while a third person penetrates one of the 69ers? I'm obsessed with this and can never find it when searching for porn...
Hats off to Wine-o...an open-minded husband and a willing experimenter. Giving something the old college try a few times does not define you. But for those of you who have determined wine-o is gay regardless of his own definition of himself, would the same apply if to a wife going down on another woman because it turns her husband on? If so, there are an awful lot of married lesbians!
Oh... off topic, but only slightly... can anyone tell me what the name of this sex act is? A 69 between two people while a third person penetrates one of the 69ers? I'm obsessed with this and can never find it when searching for porn...
39
DREW, Google up "Swedish hockey dildo" to find the video that's undoubtedly still floating around of a Swedish pro hockey player (can you get much butcher than that?) being pegged with great glee and abandon by his girlfriend. After an incident where fans of an opposing team threw copious numbers of dildos on the ice, his response was basically, "Fuck you--you should be having half as much fun as my girlfriend and I are."
Ah, here we are:
Ah, here we are:
The dildos and other paraphernalia were targeted at Leksand defenseman Jan Huokko, who was involved in a sex scandal when a sexually explicit video of him and his girlfriend was posted on the internet.
40
beentheredonethat:
I have been on the receiving end also. I have also been the cheater. And it sucks all the way around. Listen, people make mistakes all the time. It sucks that you got hurt, but demonizing everyone who fucks up -especially when you know nothing about them- will only increase your blood pressure and make you look like a judgemental head case.
As someone above said, Step back, breathe deep, and try to realize that you are taking this so personally and reacting with so much venom because of your own issue. There are very healthy ways to deal with that, none of which involve demonizing others. Good luck to you.
I have been on the receiving end also. I have also been the cheater. And it sucks all the way around. Listen, people make mistakes all the time. It sucks that you got hurt, but demonizing everyone who fucks up -especially when you know nothing about them- will only increase your blood pressure and make you look like a judgemental head case.
As someone above said, Step back, breathe deep, and try to realize that you are taking this so personally and reacting with so much venom because of your own issue. There are very healthy ways to deal with that, none of which involve demonizing others. Good luck to you.
41
I have to second the people urging beentheredonethat to calm down already and think about why this upsets him so much. It's a pretty common situation, and awkward one to be sure, but it rarely ends in murder or widespread devastation. I got the impression, and I may be wrong, that FIM was in college (Madison is quite the college town, and he sounded young). This situation might suck, but it probably won't ruin any lives. It is seriously sick to equate a cheating girlfriend with the death of one's child--seriously, dude, what the fuck? This situation doesn't qualify as a tragedy!
42
Dang, how did a trite-ass situation like FIM's end up with so many long-winded comments?
Savage for Prezident.
Savage for Prezident.
43
FIM, im sure the sex is good but is it really worth the confusion and drama? this situation is a turd that needs to be flushed. shame on her for possibly causing another human being the amount of hurt and humiliation her boyfriend would fell just so she could "get off" I have no respect for people who behave this way. where is your conscience at? if you want to be open and free and enjoy a wide open sex life than do it . but to repay someone's love and devotion with lies and deceit is wrong. although it's not rape or child molestation it lands on the same side of right and wrong as these acts do. in short there's nothing good about what your doing except for the sex and even that is overshadowed by the emotional damage, the shame, the selfishness and lies your inviting into your life....
44
@41 and beentheredonethat
I'll third it. I thought 'if she's willing to do this [...] what makes you think she won't do this to you' mentality went the way of the slut. Cheating doesn't happen in a vacuum, so to speak. And while it's not very ethical and can be a downright shitty thing to do to your partner, sometimes there are mitigating circumstances. Other times it can be downright justified as we found out in Gasoline and the Match.
It's also not nice jumping to conclusions about other people. We could jump to conclusions based upon your reaction to FIM's situation and your 'naturally submissive to women' side but I'd like to think we're more open minded, more accepting and much less judgmental than that.
I'll third it. I thought 'if she's willing to do this [...] what makes you think she won't do this to you' mentality went the way of the slut. Cheating doesn't happen in a vacuum, so to speak. And while it's not very ethical and can be a downright shitty thing to do to your partner, sometimes there are mitigating circumstances. Other times it can be downright justified as we found out in Gasoline and the Match.
It's also not nice jumping to conclusions about other people. We could jump to conclusions based upon your reaction to FIM's situation and your 'naturally submissive to women' side but I'd like to think we're more open minded, more accepting and much less judgmental than that.
45
Uhhh.....the submission from FIM is freaking me out. A LOT. Not only did I happen to hook up with my friend's girlfriend about two months ago after skinny dipping and taking a shower with her, but I live in Madison and did NOT send this question in. So, either this is an enormous coincidence or something else...
They broke up shortly after we slept together but almost everything else is spot on. This is almost too much of a coincidence to be a legitimate coincidence. Wtf.
They broke up shortly after we slept together but almost everything else is spot on. This is almost too much of a coincidence to be a legitimate coincidence. Wtf.
46
To DREW:
Getting you ass pounded doesn't make you gay, getting your ass pounded by a dude makes you gay.
You like a nice firm (silicone) dick in your ass when it's attached to a women. Sex between a man and a women, sounds hetero to me. It might not be hetero-normative, but it's straight.
Just revel in the hedonism and have her pound away!
Getting you ass pounded doesn't make you gay, getting your ass pounded by a dude makes you gay.
You like a nice firm (silicone) dick in your ass when it's attached to a women. Sex between a man and a women, sounds hetero to me. It might not be hetero-normative, but it's straight.
Just revel in the hedonism and have her pound away!
47
@28 I didn't say being homeless was a mental illness. I said that a mentally ill person will not be considered a threat to themselves or others just because they are homeless, an addict, or mentally ill. A signficant number of mentally ill and/or addicted people are homeless.
I did not mean to imply all or most homeless people are mentally ill, if you took it that way I'm sorry. My comment was in response to what I perceived as someone making light of mental illness.
I did not mean to imply all or most homeless people are mentally ill, if you took it that way I'm sorry. My comment was in response to what I perceived as someone making light of mental illness.
49
Sorry, but if FIM doesn't want to appear to be the kind of guy that bangs his friend's girlfriend's, it's too late for that. But he might be able to cover his tracks this tme if he politely but firmly stops talking to this girl. Permanently.
If they become an item later, their past history WILL out. Mutual friends, as he says, have already noticed and that's before the cheating girlfriend gets mad at him and blackmails him or blurts something out loud in the middle of a fight when others can here.
Or, when she gets tired of FIM and sleeps with HIS friends.
If they become an item later, their past history WILL out. Mutual friends, as he says, have already noticed and that's before the cheating girlfriend gets mad at him and blackmails him or blurts something out loud in the middle of a fight when others can here.
Or, when she gets tired of FIM and sleeps with HIS friends.
50
@32 Thank you for your concern. Active or passive suicide is more likely than homicide, but there have been a couple recent incidents in Madison where the pyscho ex-boyfriends went on killing sprees. The women and the new boyfriends were not among the dead, but some of their relatives and friends were. No one can predict how the boyfriend is going to react, but FIM should at least consider how bad things could get. Does he really want the grief and guilt if things turn tragic? Is she worth it?
51
@40 I'm more concerned about the collateral damage, this has the potential to become a real nightmare. The woman may be putting her best friend in a horrible position, particularly if she has shared her secret with the friend, something not uncommon. The best friend may have to choose between her boyfriend and the woman. At least the woman didn't hook up with her roomate's brother.
53
@41 I seriously suggest you read some of the literature on infidelity or check out some of the support websites before you make light of how devasting betrayal and public humiliation can be and trust me, the roomate will be publicly humiliated by this. Have you ever really been in LOVE with someone? If their betrayal would not devastate you, I doubt it.
We don't know enough and may never know whether this becomes a tragedy.
We don't know enough and may never know whether this becomes a tragedy.
54
Actually, beentheredonethat, I have been in love and I have been cheated on. It is horribly painful, but this stuff happens. YOU are the one who said that only the death of one's child could be worse--was that serious? You really want to compare THAT kind of tragedy with being cheated on, a horrible thing that happens to many people at some point in their lives but is mostly not the the end of the world? People cheat, it is humiliating and painful, but FIM's situation is common and unlikely to rise to tragic status.
Also, you seem a little over-fixated on the humiliation part. Which is worse, the pain or people knowing about it?
Also, you seem a little over-fixated on the humiliation part. Which is worse, the pain or people knowing about it?
55
lol, confused as fuck in madison@ 45. if she broke up with her boyfriend RIGHT afterwords then it's not so terrible, especially if he never found out why their relationship ended. personally people who are sexually open and free don't bother me, even if they fuck up at lest they will try to make it right. people who lie to their partners so they can run around behind there backs really do upset me... mostly because of the hurt it causes
56
As for "No Homo"...
I agree with the definition. As the one "who's wearing the lingerie" I can attest that myself and most other cross dressers I've seen around are actually straight.
I agree with the definition. As the one "who's wearing the lingerie" I can attest that myself and most other cross dressers I've seen around are actually straight.
57
pretty forkin weird thread. almost like a new kind of theater. beentheredonethat, are you some sort of improv actor?
58
@55, the reason I'm confused is because this is the EXACT same thing that happened to me recently, in Madison, down to the living situation. The only thing different is that, long story short, I don't think we're going to be together. But this story being here is of concern to me. I'm wondering if the girl sent this in posing as a guy (me) to get some sort of explanation as to what happened with the situation, maybe figure out why we aren't together now.
Either that or this is an ENORMOUS coincidence, one I am very confused and curious about.
Either that or this is an ENORMOUS coincidence, one I am very confused and curious about.
59
Speaking as a guy in Madison, I'd say that the advice to FIM is great for most everywhere there are adults.
The problem is, most of the guys around here who have women living with them would be glad if those women started dating other people, so we could get some time off.
FIM, if you're helping my wife to understand that she'd be happier elsewhere, mention it to me. I swear I won't punch you, and I will send you a bottle of bourbon as thanks. Maybe two if you can get it done quickly.
(Obviously, there's a chance that FIM isn't seeing my wife, in which case, he might get punched, and might not get bourbon.)
The problem is, most of the guys around here who have women living with them would be glad if those women started dating other people, so we could get some time off.
FIM, if you're helping my wife to understand that she'd be happier elsewhere, mention it to me. I swear I won't punch you, and I will send you a bottle of bourbon as thanks. Maybe two if you can get it done quickly.
(Obviously, there's a chance that FIM isn't seeing my wife, in which case, he might get punched, and might not get bourbon.)
60
Confused as fuck in Madison,
How old are you? There's nothing all that unusual about the situation in FIM's letter. In a city the size of Madison there must be dozens of guys banging some friend's live-in girlfriend. The situation is just not that unusual.
How old are you? There's nothing all that unusual about the situation in FIM's letter. In a city the size of Madison there must be dozens of guys banging some friend's live-in girlfriend. The situation is just not that unusual.
62
@60, I'm 23 but I guess I was unaware this was a rampant issue. It was the swimming/shower thing that tipped me off as a possibility since that all happened to me. I also got freaked out because Savage Love is printed in the back of The Onion here in Madison and I saw the guy who was dating the girl in question reading a copy of The Onion today. Hope he didn't see that, considering he was there the night we were swimming but left early.
I probably should not be worried, but considering the circumstances I freaked out a bit when I saw that in print.
I probably should not be worried, but considering the circumstances I freaked out a bit when I saw that in print.
63
@54 Much of the literature on infidelity is overblown and says it is the most painful thing you will experience. I disagree and contend that for most people the death of a child or spouse is far more devastating. However, for some people, it feels like the end of their world. People react differently and yes infidelity can result in tradegies comparable to the death of a child. A woman who contracts AIDS and gives it to her unsuspecting husband and baby. A husband who goes home and kills his five kids before suiciding. A man who slaughters as much of his cheating girlfriend's family as he can before the cops put him down. True stories, not urban legends.
64
beentheredonethat--
So, we're supposed to check out the literature on infidelity (as per 53) that is also particularly overblown (as per 63)?
I think you're starting to get to the point where you're attacking other posters rather than responding to the original issue. I feel for you and sympathize with the fact you've been through this before, but I honestly think you're still taking this way too personally (unless you're the guy being cheated on in FIM's letter) and you should maybe consider taking 24 hours or so to sit back, distract yourself with something, and consider that a year from now the people in FIM's social circle will have something more important to worry about than an obnoxious break-up before you keep hammering away at this thread. There's a difference between being devastated by a betrayal and the world ending because you've fallen for the trap of the mythical One Person For You and can't imagine life without your brand new ex.
So, we're supposed to check out the literature on infidelity (as per 53) that is also particularly overblown (as per 63)?
I think you're starting to get to the point where you're attacking other posters rather than responding to the original issue. I feel for you and sympathize with the fact you've been through this before, but I honestly think you're still taking this way too personally (unless you're the guy being cheated on in FIM's letter) and you should maybe consider taking 24 hours or so to sit back, distract yourself with something, and consider that a year from now the people in FIM's social circle will have something more important to worry about than an obnoxious break-up before you keep hammering away at this thread. There's a difference between being devastated by a betrayal and the world ending because you've fallen for the trap of the mythical One Person For You and can't imagine life without your brand new ex.
65
@54 I almost forgot the worst tragedy of them all. The transmission of AIDS in Africa is largely the result of heterosexual infidelity combined with the refusal to practice safe sex.
This is really getting depressing. The tragedy is not the cheating and the direct impact on the victimized person, but the consequences for others and collateral damage. Just because you and I didn't go pyscho doesn't mean that the roommate won't. Some people really do lose it.
This is really getting depressing. The tragedy is not the cheating and the direct impact on the victimized person, but the consequences for others and collateral damage. Just because you and I didn't go pyscho doesn't mean that the roommate won't. Some people really do lose it.
68
I don't like the advice to the first one.
I really had a "thing" for my boyfriend's best friend, about 5 months into our relationship. 10 years later, I so wished I would have said fuck it to everyone involved, that I thought would be hurt.
He may not be the "disease." He may be "the one." Go for it.
I really had a "thing" for my boyfriend's best friend, about 5 months into our relationship. 10 years later, I so wished I would have said fuck it to everyone involved, that I thought would be hurt.
He may not be the "disease." He may be "the one." Go for it.
69
@61,ellarosa, thanks for a valiant attempt at an answer (what to call a 69 with the addition of a third party entering one of the 69ers). Maybe it's 699, I've heard it described as 69 plus, but when searching for porn, neither one of these is not one of the 500 available categories. WHY NOT??? does this seem so far-fetched? What could be hotter than being licked and fucked at the same time? Anyone know what this is called... or better yet, where I can find some porn featuring a 69 while fucking?
70
@ beentheredonethatgotthetshirt: People cheat ALL THE TIME and the receiving end will almost always get over it. The relationship of the girl FIM was with is doomed, as Dan said, and there isn't a way for them to end it "amicably"- there usually NEVER is. If her boyfriend "overreacts" or whatever when she tells him she wants to end it (regardless of whether she tells him she's pursuing someone else), and a disastrous shitstorm of events occur, that's HIS problem--NOT a reason for her to stop seeing FIM. The boyfriend will get over it eventually. Most people don't go on killing sprees when they find out their partner was unfaithful. His girlfriend (soon to be ex, I'm guessing) has a right to end the relationship, and pursue whoever she wants to pursue. I have definitely been cheated on before, and know two other people who were on the receiving end of the FIM situation, and though it took a few of months in both cases, they bot got over it. Your thread of paranoid responses only shows how limited your perspective is. Your personal situation is yours alone; MOST people will not go murdering others for infidelity, and if they do, then THEY should go to jail -- NOT the unfaithful partner.
71
what is this, the back-to-school issue? Dan, tell these kids to grow up and get back to doing what you do best--like SpreadingSantorum.com.
72
Once again, the idea of a str8 guy getting pounded in the ass and loving it is getting me rock hard! I'm sure I'm not alone in this, and it may help explain why seancody.com (str8 guys getting fucked) is so popular.
There always seems to be some allusion to this phenomenon in Dan's column. Mazel tov, and carry on!
There always seems to be some allusion to this phenomenon in Dan's column. Mazel tov, and carry on!
74
I would add to the advice to FIM: if she's willing to break up with her man to be with you, and is capable of cheating on her current man with you, then she is more than capable of doing the same again, with you in your second-tier-friend's boots. I'd be wary at best of her.
Also who the fuck groups their friends on tiers? That seems like such a high school thing to do.
Also who the fuck groups their friends on tiers? That seems like such a high school thing to do.
75
The thought of a Glen Beck dildo up my ass all day gives me a shiver.
I don't want to do Glen, I think he belongs wit a bunch of
I don't want to do Glen, I think he belongs wit a bunch of
76
@69 ggg (How appropriate)- I definitely am with you on wondering why this position is so rare in porn, straight or otherwise- I think it's super hot and would LOVE to see it (and do it, of course).
If you find some, let us other 669 devotess know. We'll thank you for it.
As for this week's advice- Dan's to FIM is good, but I doubt he'll actually heed it. He's into her, she digs him back, too- it's fresh new love they both won't be able to resist, friends/ circle be damned. I've done it before and I KNEW it was wrong, but when we were together it was all magic and shit- so I went ahead with it. I suspect he will as well. AND no none died, was murdered etc- that's pretty effin' crazy. Anyone that is capable of such effed up-ness is not really "dating' material anyway..you think? (uh, batshit jealous crazy, anyone?)
Re: DREW- I'm wondering what these other things he said he likes that are so "gay". What, he likes showtunes and interior designing? Posters of calvin klein underwear ads on the walls? Not TOO gay, but.. Playing with toys and whatnot in the bedroom with a GIRL does not make one gay for sure.
But for Mr Wine-o; Kinda faggy fer sure- I mean come on, sucking a REAL- live man cock is a huge step up from playing with a dildo. GGG or not, that would be pushing it, I think. As someone else pointed out, it's what in his HEAD as he's doing these things is important. Same for DREW, of course...
As always , good stuffs/ comments!
If you find some, let us other 669 devotess know. We'll thank you for it.
As for this week's advice- Dan's to FIM is good, but I doubt he'll actually heed it. He's into her, she digs him back, too- it's fresh new love they both won't be able to resist, friends/ circle be damned. I've done it before and I KNEW it was wrong, but when we were together it was all magic and shit- so I went ahead with it. I suspect he will as well. AND no none died, was murdered etc- that's pretty effin' crazy. Anyone that is capable of such effed up-ness is not really "dating' material anyway..you think? (uh, batshit jealous crazy, anyone?)
Re: DREW- I'm wondering what these other things he said he likes that are so "gay". What, he likes showtunes and interior designing? Posters of calvin klein underwear ads on the walls? Not TOO gay, but.. Playing with toys and whatnot in the bedroom with a GIRL does not make one gay for sure.
But for Mr Wine-o; Kinda faggy fer sure- I mean come on, sucking a REAL- live man cock is a huge step up from playing with a dildo. GGG or not, that would be pushing it, I think. As someone else pointed out, it's what in his HEAD as he's doing these things is important. Same for DREW, of course...
As always , good stuffs/ comments!
77
For all the beentheredonethat's:
People do not have to respond to dramatic situations with violence. I've "been there" too, with a circle of narcissistic "friends" who act their show size, not their age.
There is a world out there--it's true! really!--where people respond to situations with reason. They do not resort to violence because they are mature and not self-destructive. Responding with temper-tantrums is what 4 year-olds do. Being angry and having arguments is not always the precursor to violence. Conflict is not dangerous.
Some of us grew up in worlds where our parents or where the adults in our lives were emotional cripples. It's hard not to continue that cycle, because we don't know any better. We even see people reacting to conflict with reason, but we disregard them as anomalies. They aren't. Reason and rationalism exist and are alive and well, and will continue to be so if we are reasonable and rational ourselves.
Removing ourselves from the company of non-rational people for as much time as possible is one way to improve ourselves and our situations. Seek out reason. Reason is peace.
People do not have to respond to dramatic situations with violence. I've "been there" too, with a circle of narcissistic "friends" who act their show size, not their age.
There is a world out there--it's true! really!--where people respond to situations with reason. They do not resort to violence because they are mature and not self-destructive. Responding with temper-tantrums is what 4 year-olds do. Being angry and having arguments is not always the precursor to violence. Conflict is not dangerous.
Some of us grew up in worlds where our parents or where the adults in our lives were emotional cripples. It's hard not to continue that cycle, because we don't know any better. We even see people reacting to conflict with reason, but we disregard them as anomalies. They aren't. Reason and rationalism exist and are alive and well, and will continue to be so if we are reasonable and rational ourselves.
Removing ourselves from the company of non-rational people for as much time as possible is one way to improve ourselves and our situations. Seek out reason. Reason is peace.
78
holy shit, beentheredonethat! AIDS in Africa???? Kindly re-read FIM's letter, and tell me where the AIDS epidemic in Africa comes into it, ok? Don't denigrate actual tragedies by comparing them with FIM's rather trite sexual misadventures.
79
confused as fuck in madison @45 & @58, sounds kinda suspicious ! wonder how many people there fit this profile? my guess is not many. it's kinda specific. whatever the coincidence or not i'd just put it out of your head. forget about it but do try to refrain form hooking up with your friends girlfriends.... even if there the ones pursuing you. if it were one of my friends i would have told him that his girl was trying to hook up behind his back.... it's hard to resist a sure thing... i know, this married chick totally pursed me. she got what she wanted and i guess so did I. I'd be lying if i said the sex wasn't great but I cant really look back on it fondly .... i have a conscience and well it sucks to think about it, she didn't even take the wedding ring off, shit its really fucked with my head. stick with single girls and don't fuck around on them.
80
WOW ... Some people really feel so strongly they need to seek counseling and get over their issues.
FIM .. One way or another it will come out and you will be the one all your friends see at fault regardless. WHY .. because you were supposed to be the friend 1st tier, 2nd tier, it doesnt matter. BUT shit happens I think the question is do you really think she is worth it? If the answer is no or IDK then cut all ties and hope for the best. That too may look equally as odd to your friends who have noticed a change in your relationship. Will she do it to you if you guys are together? MAYBE but I dont believe in that whole once a cheater always a cheater, BS. Sometimes people just find a person they cannot stop thinking about at the wrong time in their life, you either act upon it or dont but you are not inherently an evil, bad person maybe just one who acts on impulses.
TWAT ... You want to do the 3some and not tell your boyfriend because you know he is not going to approve. Clever wording will not change that!
DREW ... Having a man who is that sexually open and at ease is a great thing. Dont get your mind wrapped around what is gay and not gay, do what feels right for you, why does everything have to be labeled?
FIM .. One way or another it will come out and you will be the one all your friends see at fault regardless. WHY .. because you were supposed to be the friend 1st tier, 2nd tier, it doesnt matter. BUT shit happens I think the question is do you really think she is worth it? If the answer is no or IDK then cut all ties and hope for the best. That too may look equally as odd to your friends who have noticed a change in your relationship. Will she do it to you if you guys are together? MAYBE but I dont believe in that whole once a cheater always a cheater, BS. Sometimes people just find a person they cannot stop thinking about at the wrong time in their life, you either act upon it or dont but you are not inherently an evil, bad person maybe just one who acts on impulses.
TWAT ... You want to do the 3some and not tell your boyfriend because you know he is not going to approve. Clever wording will not change that!
DREW ... Having a man who is that sexually open and at ease is a great thing. Dont get your mind wrapped around what is gay and not gay, do what feels right for you, why does everything have to be labeled?
81
i just can not understand why in this day and age we still need to tell people that you are not gay because you like it up the bum. my husband loves it when i play with he's ass and he is very straight, even while wearing my panties. i like to go down on women, and i am bi. what is the issue here? playing with your anal areas does not make you gay.
82
How about this: "Gay guys have straight sex in high school like women have clitorectomies in sub-Saharan Africa: under duress." Ha ha ha ha!
Or this: "Gay guys have straight sex in high school like Thai children have sex with Japanese businessmen in Phuket:under duress." Yuk yuk yuk!
Or: 'Gay guys have straight sex in high school like gay guys get tortured, tied to a fence, and left to die in Laramie Wyomong: under duress." Heh heh heh!
Hoo boy, I could do this all day, thanks for the chuckles, Dan!
Or this: "Gay guys have straight sex in high school like Thai children have sex with Japanese businessmen in Phuket:under duress." Yuk yuk yuk!
Or: 'Gay guys have straight sex in high school like gay guys get tortured, tied to a fence, and left to die in Laramie Wyomong: under duress." Heh heh heh!
Hoo boy, I could do this all day, thanks for the chuckles, Dan!
83
Once again the Gospel of Savage hits the nail on the head. I've been perplexed by a similar situation similar to Fucked in Madison, knowing for myself what the answer was but so deluded by infatuation that I couldn't think straight!
Thanks Dan for providing a voice of reason.
Thanks Dan for providing a voice of reason.
84
Straight cross dressers?????
I'm deeply offended that so far no one responded to my previous post (#56).
I'm deeply offended that so far no one responded to my previous post (#56).
86
what the FUCK does glenn beck have to do with some guy wanting to know if he"gay? People ask you about sex problems NOT your political views hot shot.your going places you have NO IDEA what the fuck your talking about. You dont like Glenn beck? then DONT listen to him! DONT bring your political Views in your podcast... we dont give a FUCK! ps. FUCK YOU!
87
Susanksweet I was responding to someone's contention that infidelity doesn't result in tragedy and was giving the most extreme examples I could think of to demonstrate just how bad it could get. The probability of an extreme outcomes is low, but why take the risk. Many people get really bent out of shape over the possibility of disasters with a much lower probability of occurence.
88
Hellbound Alleee It doesn't matter how mature someone is if they are dealing with trauma induced disruption of their brain chemistry. It is difficult to be rational when your brain is flooded with adrenaline, serotonin, dopamine, etc. Some people are more sensitive/susceptible to disruption of the chemical balance in their brain and may do things they will later regret. Finding out you've been betrayed, deceived, and lied to by a loved one can be quite traumatic.
89
@beentheredonethatgotthetshirt
In response to your statement ("The probability of an extreme outcomes is low, but why take the risk"): you take the risk because it means being happy in the end. It might be construed as selfish, but everyone is, and at least it's being honest in the end.
In response to your statement ("The probability of an extreme outcomes is low, but why take the risk"): you take the risk because it means being happy in the end. It might be construed as selfish, but everyone is, and at least it's being honest in the end.
90
Happy to see that beentheredonethatgottheshirt finally went to bed. Hope he gets a good nights rest and a better perspective in the morning. Me, I'm suffering from insomnia and was just glad to have a Savage column to read to pass the time.
I only wish Dan's column was as long as Dear Prudence over at Salon.
I only wish Dan's column was as long as Dear Prudence over at Salon.
93
I think win-o is fucking cool, and I think beentheredonethat is a stupid git who is probably really bloody creepy and weird and hence got cheated on by his partner because they wanted an out, which is why he's so fucking fucked up about it. Jesus man, infidelity isn't the worst bloody thing in the world. Banging on and on and on about it just shows your low self-esteem issues. Move the fuck on.
94
You know I think this is great that Dan has a gift to really get to the issues and gives great adviced based on it. And it's just his advice, not the law of how you have to live.
At first I was really digging all the comments and that's true but I have to really say that I'm SHOCKED by the amount of hate and over all lack of civility, it's disgusting that these are even still real issues and we don't respect each other enough to not attack them with your own drama. Shocked I tell. :O
At first I was really digging all the comments and that's true but I have to really say that I'm SHOCKED by the amount of hate and over all lack of civility, it's disgusting that these are even still real issues and we don't respect each other enough to not attack them with your own drama. Shocked I tell. :O
95
@22: Mrs. Norris: I LOVE your Facebook photo! That's classic!
Great advice as always, Dan! Kudos!
Great advice as always, Dan! Kudos!
96
FIM: prepare yourself for the possibility that she might find she's not be all that into you any more once the thrill of cheating or "almost cheating" is gone...IF she follows through and breaks up with her boyfriend.
98
Claude Rains was a great actor who delivered some truly fabulous lines.
@93 No she's just a troubled soul who was really fucked up by her family. She'd tried suicide a couple of times. Her birthday gift to me, today, was to wait 5 days before leaving with a street musician she met a couple weeks before. She ended up broke, pregnant, desparate, and alone with no place to go and no one to turn to. I gave her a place to stay, paid for her abortion, and took care of her until she was physically healthy enough to move on. I ain't no saint, but she was someone I loved and still care about. If that is your definition of a stupid git who is bloody creepy and weird, so be it. People make mistakes with sometimes tragic consequences. Anniversary dates can be difficult because the painful memories return. So much for that tale of woe. I became a sadder, but wiser man.
@93 No she's just a troubled soul who was really fucked up by her family. She'd tried suicide a couple of times. Her birthday gift to me, today, was to wait 5 days before leaving with a street musician she met a couple weeks before. She ended up broke, pregnant, desparate, and alone with no place to go and no one to turn to. I gave her a place to stay, paid for her abortion, and took care of her until she was physically healthy enough to move on. I ain't no saint, but she was someone I loved and still care about. If that is your definition of a stupid git who is bloody creepy and weird, so be it. People make mistakes with sometimes tragic consequences. Anniversary dates can be difficult because the painful memories return. So much for that tale of woe. I became a sadder, but wiser man.
99
In the small likelihood of FIM reading this: My partner (we'll call him BM) and I broke straight-people code: don't date your ex's friends or your friend's ex's (and don't sleep with your friend's current partner or your current partner's friends). I was dating someone long-term (we'll call him FN) and hooked up with BM, who was my best friend at the time. I eventually broke up with FN about a month into my "affair" with BM. We hid the relationship for 6 months before confirming our suspected relationship with our group of friends (including FN and his close friends and ex-partners). It wasn't pretty at first, and I did lose some friends, but BM and I have been together for 10 years now and are happily married, and still best friends. Sucked for the short term, but worth it in the end. The whole code is bogus. If you hook up within your network of friends, things are more likely to work out in the long run since you were friends first.
100
wine-o, I'm sorry but sucking a cock makes you gay, period (or at least bi-sexual). Ass play, on the other hand, stimulates the prostate and I've hear of many straight men who like getting their "salad tossed" with or without penetration.
Using Dan's definition,I'm not sure thinking of your wife's hotness with a cock in your mouth qualifies (unless the guy is 1 inch and you're pretending its your wife's nipple).
Using Dan's definition,I'm not sure thinking of your wife's hotness with a cock in your mouth qualifies (unless the guy is 1 inch and you're pretending its your wife's nipple).
101
something is bothering me... why do people care about the gay/straight identity thing? who fucking cares?? i shure don't!
have safe relationships, be ggg, and for the love of all that's good in this world please stop obsessing about what percentage of 'gay' you or anyone else may be.
have safe relationships, be ggg, and for the love of all that's good in this world please stop obsessing about what percentage of 'gay' you or anyone else may be.
102
"...or whether the dildo is penis-shaped or Glenn Beck–shaped..."
To be fair Dan, how would one tell the difference between these two aforementioned dildos? Would the Glenn Beck one be crying tears of lube as it fucked my ass? Because although off-putting, that might be pretty functional.
P.S. Although Glenn Beck has nothing to do with this article, I do appreciate your humorous jab at comedian Glenn Beck. Personally, I thought his early stuff was a little too dry, but Glenn Beck's recent stuff is HILARIOUS! Being the open-minded liberal blog that this is, I think it's great when we get a chance to peek under the hood at your politics, and only the most misguided and confused comment poster could ever have a problem with it. *glares at comment #86*
Keep fucking that proverbial chicken.
To be fair Dan, how would one tell the difference between these two aforementioned dildos? Would the Glenn Beck one be crying tears of lube as it fucked my ass? Because although off-putting, that might be pretty functional.
P.S. Although Glenn Beck has nothing to do with this article, I do appreciate your humorous jab at comedian Glenn Beck. Personally, I thought his early stuff was a little too dry, but Glenn Beck's recent stuff is HILARIOUS! Being the open-minded liberal blog that this is, I think it's great when we get a chance to peek under the hood at your politics, and only the most misguided and confused comment poster could ever have a problem with it. *glares at comment #86*
Keep fucking that proverbial chicken.
103
He specified that the dildo his girlfriend was using to pound his ass was 'not penis shaped'. What other shape of a dildo would we workable for ass pounding? Doesn't it need to be phallic shaped to fit and pleasure the orifice best...? I'm not sure how the fact that it was not penis shaped makes a difference to whether or not he has gay proclivities, but I'm more interested in what shape the dildo WAS. I've seen a lot in my day, and they have all been phallic. What am I missing??
104
To # 101:
I'm the one behind the comments # 56 and and 84 , and although I'm not sure you referred to me when posting your comment I'd still like to take the opportunity and promote my agenda....
Male cross dressers aren't freaks- they're actually great and sexy!!!
Being attuned to and accepting our feminine side often makes us understand others better (especially women), we are great lovers (ok- I admit this is not a scientific statement, only an assumption), more inclined to be GGG than most other straight guys (just an example: many of us would LOVE to be on the receiving end, and I assume the percentage among us is much higher for than at the general non-cross-dressing straight male population out there), we are (again- my observation) more aware of gender/sexual orientation issues and politics, well dressed, and know how to party.
In other words: Cross dressing is sexy and should be embraced as such by all people (and especially by the women I'd love to date) .
Good week to all!
I'm the one behind the comments # 56 and and 84 , and although I'm not sure you referred to me when posting your comment I'd still like to take the opportunity and promote my agenda....
Male cross dressers aren't freaks- they're actually great and sexy!!!
Being attuned to and accepting our feminine side often makes us understand others better (especially women), we are great lovers (ok- I admit this is not a scientific statement, only an assumption), more inclined to be GGG than most other straight guys (just an example: many of us would LOVE to be on the receiving end, and I assume the percentage among us is much higher for than at the general non-cross-dressing straight male population out there), we are (again- my observation) more aware of gender/sexual orientation issues and politics, well dressed, and know how to party.
In other words: Cross dressing is sexy and should be embraced as such by all people (and especially by the women I'd love to date) .
Good week to all!
105
#103, Any object that is longer than it is wide does not need to be a replica of a human penis (or an animal peneer for that matter) to please the nerve endings that line a cylindrical orifice.
Now get off the couch and stop writing out checks to that quack Dr Freud.
Now get off the couch and stop writing out checks to that quack Dr Freud.
107
i think that DREW needs to not worry so much about being "gay" just because he likes havin his ass pounded!! i don't even think it should matter if its a man or woman doing the pounding!! first: even if you are gay none of this should matter. second: whats gay anymore anyway now-a-days? sex between consenting adults is exactly that SEX!! enter into a same-sex "relationship", that might be a little different, but if you and whomever your with are being safe and having a good time, then to hell with whats GAY or not!!
108
@107: good luck convincing 1% of the population that just having oodles of sex with men and not having a "relationship" isn't gay. Wanting sex with other men = gay or bi, that's all there is to it.
@103: it was a dildo, just didn't have veins and a cockhead and balls. So that's "less gay." Got it?
@103: it was a dildo, just didn't have veins and a cockhead and balls. So that's "less gay." Got it?
109
@ beentheredonethatgotthetshirt Living is a risk, because anything and everything we do leads to death. You are basically saying that people should only date one person and never leave them, regardless of the reason, because if they do, they can upset said partner, and lead to the loss of innocent lives and it's best not to take that risk.
Sure, it's bad that she's cheating on him, it's going to hurt him, but it would hurt him just the same if she left him anyway, it would be the same risk. What if she doesn't date FIM and dates some new guy? There's still that risk that the ex is going to get mad about that.
You take a risk to be happy, no one is going to be together forever. Just because there's a risk of something happening doesn't mean it will. If people lived their lives avoiding the smallest of risks just because, we'd all be dead.
I agree with the others who have said you are making this whole thing way to personal. It seems you have some pent up issues from a past experience you might want to find a way to deal with.
Sure, it's bad that she's cheating on him, it's going to hurt him, but it would hurt him just the same if she left him anyway, it would be the same risk. What if she doesn't date FIM and dates some new guy? There's still that risk that the ex is going to get mad about that.
You take a risk to be happy, no one is going to be together forever. Just because there's a risk of something happening doesn't mean it will. If people lived their lives avoiding the smallest of risks just because, we'd all be dead.
I agree with the others who have said you are making this whole thing way to personal. It seems you have some pent up issues from a past experience you might want to find a way to deal with.
110
Primate. Not a problem.
One of the things about FIM that bothers me is if he is so concerned about consequences did HE? describe his situation in some detail and provide a locational reference (Madison) Presumably he is not the only one from his group to read Savage Love.
One of the things about FIM that bothers me is if he is so concerned about consequences did HE? describe his situation in some detail and provide a locational reference (Madison) Presumably he is not the only one from his group to read Savage Love.
112
Seems as if all conceivable thoughts over the FIM situation have been posted...but I have one more. This world has billions of people, so there will always be a better fuck somewhere. The reason we commit to each other in relationships is so that we can trust our partners to not indulge those possibilities and scuttle the life that two people are building together.
Full disclosure: a similar thing happened to me when my fiancee started to sleep with a musician / mutual friend...I moved here from overseas so her friends were my friends, they understandably chose her side...but my world imploded...I felt run over, squashed into the carpet like one of those ancient grey chewing gum stains you see on the floors of public places.
Relationships take work...if things aren't quite popping, then try to restart the romance before you go off and hurt the one you 'love'. Otherwise stay single...it seems that many of us in post-modern America (*myself included at times) want it both ways (perhaps the polyamorous have it right).
Full disclosure: a similar thing happened to me when my fiancee started to sleep with a musician / mutual friend...I moved here from overseas so her friends were my friends, they understandably chose her side...but my world imploded...I felt run over, squashed into the carpet like one of those ancient grey chewing gum stains you see on the floors of public places.
Relationships take work...if things aren't quite popping, then try to restart the romance before you go off and hurt the one you 'love'. Otherwise stay single...it seems that many of us in post-modern America (*myself included at times) want it both ways (perhaps the polyamorous have it right).
113
To FIM,
Once all is said and done, she will realize what a loser you are, and regret giving up her previous boyfriend and life, not to mention potentially losing her close friends, to explore the infatuation between the two of you, which is sure to last about 12 seconds.
I wish I hadn't had, but I just went through this same experience this summer (I was in the girl's shoes, albeit in an all-male scenario). I gave up the boyfriend who gave me security for the cheater/loser/FIM-character. Like your love interest, I wanted it to end, but found the thrill of the affair much short-lived and wanted the ex-BF back. He doesn't want my ass back and will never speak of, to, or acknowlegde in-any-way-whatsoever the cheater/loser/FIM-character. So be prepared to lose his respect and that of all your mutual friends.
On a cheerful note, you will probably be single again soon.
Once all is said and done, she will realize what a loser you are, and regret giving up her previous boyfriend and life, not to mention potentially losing her close friends, to explore the infatuation between the two of you, which is sure to last about 12 seconds.
I wish I hadn't had, but I just went through this same experience this summer (I was in the girl's shoes, albeit in an all-male scenario). I gave up the boyfriend who gave me security for the cheater/loser/FIM-character. Like your love interest, I wanted it to end, but found the thrill of the affair much short-lived and wanted the ex-BF back. He doesn't want my ass back and will never speak of, to, or acknowlegde in-any-way-whatsoever the cheater/loser/FIM-character. So be prepared to lose his respect and that of all your mutual friends.
On a cheerful note, you will probably be single again soon.
114
I was going post a "really" offensive comment (shades of Roman Polanski), but there has already been enough incivility and disrespect in the FIM thread. His letter feels surreal, like something right out of the lyrics of Jessie's Girl.
115
I couldn't take not knowing anymore, had to google Glen Beck. He actually is rather penis-shaped, so I don't think that a Glen Beck shaped dildo affects the gay meter one way or the other. The reality is that having something in your ass feels good, that's why we do it. Who cares about the gender of the giver or receiver? It feels good, that's why we have any kind of sex in the first place. (Don't believe any of the study about why women have sex, we do it because IT FEELS GOOD and we LIKE IT, any questions?) Wine-O obviously gets it, and gets more because he gets it.
ggg, Cunnilingus during penetration | Adult DVD Talk Forum | Porn Fan ...5 posts - 4 authors - Last post: Mar 12
All Forums -> The Porn Pool -> Cunnilingus during penetration ... Females in the 69 position while the male penetrates the top woman
forum.adultdvdtalk.com/forum/topic.../13…;
Enjoy. But I really think it would be more fun to do rather than watch...
ggg, Cunnilingus during penetration | Adult DVD Talk Forum | Porn Fan ...5 posts - 4 authors - Last post: Mar 12
All Forums -> The Porn Pool -> Cunnilingus during penetration ... Females in the 69 position while the male penetrates the top woman
forum.adultdvdtalk.com/forum/topic.../13…;
Enjoy. But I really think it would be more fun to do rather than watch...
116
To wine-o and everyone else. I never said that your wife playing with your ass or anything else you and your wife do makes you gay. The fact that you had a man dick in your mouth and you liked it makes you a little gay.
If my wife invited a woman into our bedroom and got down with her, then my wife with be a little lesbo, wont bother me though. If my wife wanted to play with my ass, Ill grab my ankles.
But as soon as you bring another penis into the picture and its not for your wife, then you are gay. Nothing wrong with that, but dont try to make me seem like im close minded, b/c Im far from it. If you dont want to put labels on things then fine, your choice.
If you like to experiment, fine, but you are not straight b/c you enjoy dick in your mouth, ewven if you enjoy it b/c your wife is in the room.
But, more power to you, and on a serious note, Im glad to here you and your wife are in your fifties and enjoy each other so much. I love my wife to death now, and sometimes I cant help to think about our future and I really hope my love for her never changes.
PS: My sex life is on the same level as you, sans extra penises( or is it peni?)....lol
If my wife invited a woman into our bedroom and got down with her, then my wife with be a little lesbo, wont bother me though. If my wife wanted to play with my ass, Ill grab my ankles.
But as soon as you bring another penis into the picture and its not for your wife, then you are gay. Nothing wrong with that, but dont try to make me seem like im close minded, b/c Im far from it. If you dont want to put labels on things then fine, your choice.
If you like to experiment, fine, but you are not straight b/c you enjoy dick in your mouth, ewven if you enjoy it b/c your wife is in the room.
But, more power to you, and on a serious note, Im glad to here you and your wife are in your fifties and enjoy each other so much. I love my wife to death now, and sometimes I cant help to think about our future and I really hope my love for her never changes.
PS: My sex life is on the same level as you, sans extra penises( or is it peni?)....lol
117
"Gay guys have straight sex in high school like straight guys have gay sex in prison: under duress."
Thank you; this just made my quote file.
Thank you; this just made my quote file.
118
Hey this stuff is great! Pointing out how people need to be honest with themselves and their partners. Just 'cause it is about sex, people, myself included, want to read it and may take a clue. Great stuff and fun to read!!!
Married in Malmo
Married in Malmo
119
#18 "I take this so personally because it has happened to me and I've seen it happen to others. The results were never pretty. While I never turned violent, some results were truly tragic. Real lifes were destroyed."
Um ... sorry you never got over what happened to you. But you can't really be serious about all this. You're getting so upset over what's happening between a few people that you've never met somewhere far away. Maybe the girl's boyfriend is a complete dipshit. Maybe these two people are 19 years old, or 25 or something super young and this is one of their first relationship issues. Maybe their friends are dicks. YOU have no clue what's really going on under the seams here. AND WHO CARES?! You can't choose sides from reading a column. Sometimes people are driven to cheat by inept lovers. It's a very awkward situation for all involved. Not to mention ... they're only dating. They don't have kids. They're not married. They don't own a home together. That's why "marriage" is the big end-all be all. If you want it THAT bad, put a damn ring on it. Thanks, Beyonce. Until someone's under the lock and marriage key, you can't fault them for trying to get out of a nonfunctional relationship.
In this case, the girl, FIM and the sorry MF that's her boyfriend, could all lose big. Or WIN BIG. Not every break up is the end of the world like beentheredonethat seems to think. Maybe the guy isn't happy in their relationship either. Perhaps that's why things are so rocky. HELLOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
Dan's advice is completely right. The girl needs to DTMFA. But she needs to take some time out before getting involved with FIM ... unless he doesn't mind being an outcast rebound.
Um ... sorry you never got over what happened to you. But you can't really be serious about all this. You're getting so upset over what's happening between a few people that you've never met somewhere far away. Maybe the girl's boyfriend is a complete dipshit. Maybe these two people are 19 years old, or 25 or something super young and this is one of their first relationship issues. Maybe their friends are dicks. YOU have no clue what's really going on under the seams here. AND WHO CARES?! You can't choose sides from reading a column. Sometimes people are driven to cheat by inept lovers. It's a very awkward situation for all involved. Not to mention ... they're only dating. They don't have kids. They're not married. They don't own a home together. That's why "marriage" is the big end-all be all. If you want it THAT bad, put a damn ring on it. Thanks, Beyonce. Until someone's under the lock and marriage key, you can't fault them for trying to get out of a nonfunctional relationship.
In this case, the girl, FIM and the sorry MF that's her boyfriend, could all lose big. Or WIN BIG. Not every break up is the end of the world like beentheredonethat seems to think. Maybe the guy isn't happy in their relationship either. Perhaps that's why things are so rocky. HELLOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
Dan's advice is completely right. The girl needs to DTMFA. But she needs to take some time out before getting involved with FIM ... unless he doesn't mind being an outcast rebound.
120
#18 "I take this so personally because it has happened to me and I've seen it happen to others. The results were never pretty. While I never turned violent, some results were truly tragic. Real lifes were destroyed."
Um ... sorry you never got over what happened to you. But you can't really be serious about all this. You're getting so upset over what's happening between a few people that you've never met somewhere far away. Maybe the girl's boyfriend is a complete dipshit. Maybe these two people are 19 years old, or 25 or something super young and this is one of their first relationship issues. Maybe their friends are dicks. YOU have no clue what's really going on under the seams here. AND WHO CARES?! You can't choose sides from reading a column. Sometimes people are driven to cheat by inept lovers. It's a very awkward situation for all involved. Not to mention ... they're only dating. They don't have kids. They're not married. They don't own a home together. That's why "marriage" is the big end-all be all. If you want it THAT bad, put a damn ring on it. Thanks, Beyonce. Until someone's under the lock and marriage key, you can't fault them for trying to get out of a nonfunctional relationship.
In this case, the girl, FIM and the sorry MF that's her boyfriend, could all lose big. Or WIN BIG. Not every break up is the end of the world like beentheredonethat seems to think. Maybe the guy isn't happy in their relationship either. Perhaps that's why things are so rocky. HELLOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
Dan's advice is completely right. The girl needs to DTMFA. But she needs to take some time out before getting involved with FIM ... unless he doesn't mind being an outcast rebound. She's in no position to be in another longterm relationship RIGHT now. Give her some time, even if she doesn't think she needs it.
More...
Um ... sorry you never got over what happened to you. But you can't really be serious about all this. You're getting so upset over what's happening between a few people that you've never met somewhere far away. Maybe the girl's boyfriend is a complete dipshit. Maybe these two people are 19 years old, or 25 or something super young and this is one of their first relationship issues. Maybe their friends are dicks. YOU have no clue what's really going on under the seams here. AND WHO CARES?! You can't choose sides from reading a column. Sometimes people are driven to cheat by inept lovers. It's a very awkward situation for all involved. Not to mention ... they're only dating. They don't have kids. They're not married. They don't own a home together. That's why "marriage" is the big end-all be all. If you want it THAT bad, put a damn ring on it. Thanks, Beyonce. Until someone's under the lock and marriage key, you can't fault them for trying to get out of a nonfunctional relationship.
In this case, the girl, FIM and the sorry MF that's her boyfriend, could all lose big. Or WIN BIG. Not every break up is the end of the world like beentheredonethat seems to think. Maybe the guy isn't happy in their relationship either. Perhaps that's why things are so rocky. HELLOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
Dan's advice is completely right. The girl needs to DTMFA. But she needs to take some time out before getting involved with FIM ... unless he doesn't mind being an outcast rebound. She's in no position to be in another longterm relationship RIGHT now. Give her some time, even if she doesn't think she needs it.
121
#119/120 Your right nobody knows what is really going on here. Even whether this is true or some sort of fantasy or fabrication. Is someone playing some seriously sick or perverted mind games? See some of the earlier posts questioning who FIM is? I've lived long enough, not to take what FIM wrote at face value. That said, living together usually means something more than just dating. Landlords normally require all parties living together to sign the lease, a prosaic concern which can cause financial problems affecting all concerned. You don't/can't pay the rent you get evicted. As written, FIM's letter could well cause relationship problems for couples who have nothing to do with him.
To FIM: Getting drunk really is a lame ass excuse for sleeping with a friend's girlfriend.
Was it intentional and was she sober? Where were the boyfriend and your mutual friends while this was going down?
To FIM: Getting drunk really is a lame ass excuse for sleeping with a friend's girlfriend.
Was it intentional and was she sober? Where were the boyfriend and your mutual friends while this was going down?
123
As the poster in #33, I can now report that it happened...I fellated my first guy. With an audience of 2 women, of course.
It was just...odd. It was exciting, my girlfriends could barely contain themselves, video taped it, made a lot of suggestions, etc. It also seemed to go on for a very long time until the natural ending.
I suppose I am gay now, according to some of the posters but I don't feel any different...just a little more...complete? I know I will be doing it again and again, to please my girlfriend.,,she also suggested that we should plan on getting married, which is the strangest, oddest thing to come out of this...but I am thrilled.
The wedding night should be interesting.
It was just...odd. It was exciting, my girlfriends could barely contain themselves, video taped it, made a lot of suggestions, etc. It also seemed to go on for a very long time until the natural ending.
I suppose I am gay now, according to some of the posters but I don't feel any different...just a little more...complete? I know I will be doing it again and again, to please my girlfriend.,,she also suggested that we should plan on getting married, which is the strangest, oddest thing to come out of this...but I am thrilled.
The wedding night should be interesting.
125
@65: don't you effing dare. There is a few things in life that really piss me off, and your statement about the AIDS crisis in Africa is one of them. From your comment I am assuming that you've read one, maybe two articles on the issue and have decided that you know all. I have lived in parts of Africa, and your comments are, quite frankly, demeaning to the people there who die because of AIDS. You sum them up to be cheaters and people to stubborn to use condoms. Are you kidding me? Don't talk shit about things that you don't know.
126
Regarding DREW. I disagree with your response, Dan. I am a queer man, and I primarily date and have sex with other queer men. However! I have been dating and having sex with a transgendered man for 2 years, and having sex with other non-trans men, trans-men and occasionally fooling around with queer women. Also, he has a girlfriend. When he is with women, it is a queer act. When I am with him, it is a queer act. When I hook up with queer women, it is also a queer act. I think your understanding of gender is VERY limited in this response. It may make sense to DREW, but it makes no sense to me. Sure, for many men and women, if they are doing it, it is a heterosexual act, but to say this is true across the board makes my experience invisible. I am queer no matter who I am having sex with and what I'm thinking about when I am doing it! And for DREW: no you don't sound gay at all, but who cares what you label yourself - if you like getting fucked, just enjoy it!
127
Hi, sorry for posting twice, I just thought my email to Dan directly was clearer than my last post:
Hi Dan!
I enjoy your column. Your DREW response, however, put my whole household up in arms. Call us hippy polyamorous gender-fluid freaks, but we hated it, and we are not actually hippies nor freaks.
I am a queer man and I am not trans, but I am not your traditional man (many consider me culturally and emotionally more like a lesbian), and I generally date and have sex with other non-trans queer men. But for the last 2 years I have been dating and having sex with a trans man and also sometimes doing it with other trans men and queer women. My trans boyfriend also has a girlfriend. None of our sex is ever heterosexual, no matter who we are with. I have vaginal sex with him. He fucks women and I do too. Would you call any of that heterosexual? Sometimes I think about men when I am with women, and sometimes I think about women when I am with men. That is all queer.
I think that your understanding of gender and sexuality that you put forth in this response to DREW makes me and so many of my friends and family invisible. Please don't generalize. Sure, for many for many men and women (such as the case with DREW) if they are doing it, it is a heterosexual act, but to say this is true for all men doing it with women (or vice versa) is just not true. Because there are more than two genders! The women I hook up with are boyish! The men I hook up with are often feminine! Please don't make gender-non conforming people invisible.
Thank you.
up in arms
Hi Dan!
I enjoy your column. Your DREW response, however, put my whole household up in arms. Call us hippy polyamorous gender-fluid freaks, but we hated it, and we are not actually hippies nor freaks.
I am a queer man and I am not trans, but I am not your traditional man (many consider me culturally and emotionally more like a lesbian), and I generally date and have sex with other non-trans queer men. But for the last 2 years I have been dating and having sex with a trans man and also sometimes doing it with other trans men and queer women. My trans boyfriend also has a girlfriend. None of our sex is ever heterosexual, no matter who we are with. I have vaginal sex with him. He fucks women and I do too. Would you call any of that heterosexual? Sometimes I think about men when I am with women, and sometimes I think about women when I am with men. That is all queer.
I think that your understanding of gender and sexuality that you put forth in this response to DREW makes me and so many of my friends and family invisible. Please don't generalize. Sure, for many for many men and women (such as the case with DREW) if they are doing it, it is a heterosexual act, but to say this is true for all men doing it with women (or vice versa) is just not true. Because there are more than two genders! The women I hook up with are boyish! The men I hook up with are often feminine! Please don't make gender-non conforming people invisible.
Thank you.
up in arms
128
@69 - brava on getting your second post to land precisely at post #69. *starts slow clap*
Critics that claim getting pegged "makes you gay, huh huh huh uh huhh" are (closet) homophobes, or just don't really understand how sexuality works beyond what their parents, Beavis, or the childhood priest taught them.
Pity them. They have no idea how much fun they are missing.
@90: in response to your last line: Dan's column, indeed. Insert obligatory "That's what HE said" here.
@86: dear beck fanboy. You know you'd buy a Glenn Beck dildo if it was offered to you so stop protesting so much. Putting one up your ass makes good sense since he's full of shit, and then so too would be your ass.
@103: I also think penis-shaped implies realism, and he (OP) draws the line at a realistic phallus (whereas bananas, broomhandles, maglites, cukes, certain waterbottles, and empire state building -shaped are AOK). and check out babeland.com: I'm not sure I'd call the pink bunny entirely 'penis-shaped' (I've yet to see a conjoined-twin-bunny attached to anyone's penis. Have you?). The 'ponytail' anal plug, while not strictly a dildo, is far from penis shaped as well.
Critics that claim getting pegged "makes you gay, huh huh huh uh huhh" are (closet) homophobes, or just don't really understand how sexuality works beyond what their parents, Beavis, or the childhood priest taught them.
Pity them. They have no idea how much fun they are missing.
@90: in response to your last line: Dan's column, indeed. Insert obligatory "That's what HE said" here.
@86: dear beck fanboy. You know you'd buy a Glenn Beck dildo if it was offered to you so stop protesting so much. Putting one up your ass makes good sense since he's full of shit, and then so too would be your ass.
@103: I also think penis-shaped implies realism, and he (OP) draws the line at a realistic phallus (whereas bananas, broomhandles, maglites, cukes, certain waterbottles, and empire state building -shaped are AOK). and check out babeland.com: I'm not sure I'd call the pink bunny entirely 'penis-shaped' (I've yet to see a conjoined-twin-bunny attached to anyone's penis. Have you?). The 'ponytail' anal plug, while not strictly a dildo, is far from penis shaped as well.
129
Dan,
a Glenn Beck shaped dildo IS dick shaped. Other than that minor quibblke, great advice all around this week. I agreed with all of it.
a Glenn Beck shaped dildo IS dick shaped. Other than that minor quibblke, great advice all around this week. I agreed with all of it.
130
@125 I guess you don't believe the WHO, CDC, and NGOs and their reports on the reasons for and wide spread transmission of AIDS in sub-Saharan Africa. You probably also deny the role played by bath houses in the spread of AIDS in this country. Both are human tragedies that could've been prevented if gutless politicians hadn't been afraid of offending their political supporters. I feel nothing but scorn for all parts of the political spectrum.
131
@125 Since you imply you have greater knowledege and expertise, perhaps you can explain the wide spread transmission of AIDS among the heterosexual population of sub-Saharan Africa. Or how you get wide spread transmission of any STD without unprotected, promiscious sex.
132
@123 There's always "heteroflexible." To me, it sounds more like you're submissive and were just doing your duty entertaining the ladies. Maybe it was fun because the women found it so hot?
If you only like sucking cock under the orders of a female audience, I'd say you aren't interested in men. If you would go suck cock on your own, then maybe bicurious.
And that was a seriously hot story.
If you only like sucking cock under the orders of a female audience, I'd say you aren't interested in men. If you would go suck cock on your own, then maybe bicurious.
And that was a seriously hot story.
133
@123 There's always "heteroflexible." To me, it sounds more like you're submissive and were just doing your duty entertaining the ladies. Maybe it was fun because the women found it so hot?
If you only like sucking cock under the orders of a female audience, I'd say you aren't interested in men. If you would go suck cock on your own, then maybe bicurious.
And that was a seriously hot story.
If you only like sucking cock under the orders of a female audience, I'd say you aren't interested in men. If you would go suck cock on your own, then maybe bicurious.
And that was a seriously hot story.
134
Ursa major,
I am definitely submissive, as you can see from 123/33, but I think only because I met my girlfriend at a particular moment in my life when I was open to being taken by her and made into what she wanted me to be. Otherwise, even if we had met later on, I do not believe all of this would have happened.
When she told me to undress for her in her living room on our second date in front of a large window at night I almost bolted out the door. When she told me to pull my underwear into my behind, I thought I was crazy to stay. When she showed me 2 of her favorite magazines - one with anal insertions of billiard balls! into men, the other of gay sex, I reached for my clothes, but she lightly brushed my cock - and I stayed.
I have received 3 more fellatio lessons from the same man since 123 - in a week!. He has complimented me on how much I have improved since the first time; the last time, he was quite rough at my girlfriend's suggestion and to her delight...and yes he got into my throat, a bit.
I agree I am not 'interested' in men. Unfortunately, my girlfriend gave this guy my cell number while I was still on my knees in front of him and told him that I was available whenever he wanted me, that he did not have to wait for my girlfriend to call him.
I suppose I am going to fulfill your condition of going to suck cock on my own. This guy is also part of a couple, by the way. My girlfriend is also 'moving ahead" with our wedding plans...what a life...it's just so exciting.
I am definitely submissive, as you can see from 123/33, but I think only because I met my girlfriend at a particular moment in my life when I was open to being taken by her and made into what she wanted me to be. Otherwise, even if we had met later on, I do not believe all of this would have happened.
When she told me to undress for her in her living room on our second date in front of a large window at night I almost bolted out the door. When she told me to pull my underwear into my behind, I thought I was crazy to stay. When she showed me 2 of her favorite magazines - one with anal insertions of billiard balls! into men, the other of gay sex, I reached for my clothes, but she lightly brushed my cock - and I stayed.
I have received 3 more fellatio lessons from the same man since 123 - in a week!. He has complimented me on how much I have improved since the first time; the last time, he was quite rough at my girlfriend's suggestion and to her delight...and yes he got into my throat, a bit.
I agree I am not 'interested' in men. Unfortunately, my girlfriend gave this guy my cell number while I was still on my knees in front of him and told him that I was available whenever he wanted me, that he did not have to wait for my girlfriend to call him.
I suppose I am going to fulfill your condition of going to suck cock on my own. This guy is also part of a couple, by the way. My girlfriend is also 'moving ahead" with our wedding plans...what a life...it's just so exciting.
136
I think too many people have an opinion about FIM! The only ones that need to be heard are from FIM and the woman in question. Dan, what about open relationships and other situations where it is allowed, encouraged, and not exactly lying? And what about the leases involved? How can a woman, or man, simply break up and move out just to laid? A lease is usually at least 6 months of not a year! That is a long time and some people do not like to or want to live alone. Most people I know move in with their new lover, once the breakup has occurred. I think this whole thing with FIM shows the current lack of respect for women. A woman is automatically blamed, reduced to slut status, and shunned for having anything to do with another man, love or no love. If she seeks to get her needs met, even with the permission i=of her live in boyfriend, then she loses friends (if that is what you would call them) and many people lose respect for her. The two people who could enlighten us the most are the woman and h er live in boyfriend. Yet we have not heard from them, therefore it is all gossip and nonsense. If FIM and her are in love, are falling in love, there is no timeline to love. DO continue to stay in touch and let her know of your feelings. Tell your friends to watch some good tv and back off of real life. I see and hear way too many comments on reality-based tv shows like Maury Povitch and those shows that regularly degrade women who are doing the same thing that most men do without even thinking about it!
137
re:34,123, 134 postings...it has happened so many times since my last post that i don't know where to start. I am on 'speed dial' on the phone of my fellatio 'trainer' and he calls me at least once a day, usually twice. I have serviced his boyfriend - sometimes both of them together - at their home, office, in their car...wherever they want me. On one special occasion, my girlfriend removed the hair on my legs and chest and everywhere else, dressed me in a maid's costume and delivered me to a birthday party for my trainer. The party was a kind of coming out event and I ended up smeared in birthday cake. My girlfriend is thrilled - most of it was her idea - and has created a web site and posted pictures of me at the party. She also has some pictures that she carries in her wallet and has framed a couple of the best ones for our 'secret' room.
We are getting married just before Christmas, by the way. My girlfriend tells me that our wedding night is going to be something I will never forget and that the honeymoon will be spectacular. She has bought me a theatrical pig costume -nose and ears, hooves, body suit, including a butt plug with a curly tail, but won't tell me when I will be wearing it. She has also pointedly told me that she has bought a number of feather pillows(?).
I suppose I will find out soon what is going to happen.
We are getting married just before Christmas, by the way. My girlfriend tells me that our wedding night is going to be something I will never forget and that the honeymoon will be spectacular. She has bought me a theatrical pig costume -nose and ears, hooves, body suit, including a butt plug with a curly tail, but won't tell me when I will be wearing it. She has also pointedly told me that she has bought a number of feather pillows(?).
I suppose I will find out soon what is going to happen.
138
A clarification for Dan: ovaries don't throb with arousal. It's like saying "my gall bladder is throbbing" or "my spleen is throbbing". Kind of yucky, and not at all sexual.
A more accurate thing might be to say, "my clit is throbbing" or "my pussy is throbbing".
A more accurate thing might be to say, "my clit is throbbing" or "my pussy is throbbing".
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